1 00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:12,300 Hello, everyone, and welcome here. So over the next few minutes, I'll be explain to you my research on adaptation strategies to floating in Nigeria, 2 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:16,980 specifically in Benin City, which is where my university is based. 3 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:25,890 Now, for those of us who are popular with Afro music, how many of us have heard about Ghana like his music? 4 00:00:25,890 --> 00:00:35,730 Yeah. So one of his popular tracks is what know gets me right essentially means that water has no enemies. 5 00:00:35,730 --> 00:00:43,860 And when we think about it in that context, I think that song was supposed to portray how important water is in every aspect of our lives. 6 00:00:43,860 --> 00:00:50,520 So basically for washing, cleaning, eating, food production, practically everything you can do without water. 7 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:56,670 Although I think from Fela's context, he was probably also making a political statement with that song because essentially for him, 8 00:00:56,670 --> 00:01:03,900 it was to say that with all the people, the governments can't function. So water has both a and ecological meaning is spiritual, 9 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:09,420 meaning it physical meaning and also a social political meaning, both in the context of my discussion city. 10 00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:13,680 I think we need to think about Florida in the context of having no enemies as well. 11 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:19,020 So when we think about flooding a lot of the times, we think about it as a disruption, as a problem. 12 00:01:19,020 --> 00:01:21,900 But that's essentially because the structures we have in place, 13 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:27,030 the social ecological structures we have in place are not suited to dealing with flooding problems. 14 00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:32,790 So it then becomes a problem. But more and more, we're looking at listening to science in the area of water, 15 00:01:32,790 --> 00:01:38,190 trying to capitalise on flooding and water issues as a resource rather than being a problem. 16 00:01:38,190 --> 00:01:43,620 So in the context of this, my discussion is going to show how people have tried to adapt to flooding, 17 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:51,720 to cope with it and to see how these coping strategies or adaptation strategies adopted have either been successful or not successful and why, 18 00:01:51,720 --> 00:02:02,510 especially in low income settings. So the presentation is essentially going to cost across five main issues a general description of 19 00:02:02,510 --> 00:02:07,580 Benin City and introduction into the governance structure or governance architecture of offloading 20 00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:13,190 and open management generally within the context of being in the coping strategies employed by people 21 00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:18,770 and probable pathways to ensuring that these coping strategies are successful or more effective. 22 00:02:18,770 --> 00:02:24,020 And then how enhanced how we can enhance adaptation strategies within that context. 23 00:02:24,020 --> 00:02:30,260 Now Benin city, the capital of a two states. So it's part of the Niger Delta region for those of us who knew about the Niger Delta, 24 00:02:30,260 --> 00:02:34,010 and it often experiences flash floods, especially during the rainy season. 25 00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:42,080 So when it rains, it really rains. It's been raining since I got here, but it would qualify more as drizzles in the context of Edo State. 26 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,810 So it really rains. And when it rains, we have flash floods, and usually that's because we are drainage systems exist. 27 00:02:47,810 --> 00:02:55,760 The IDA blocks or the poorly constructed, or they're just not enough to carry the enough to carry the water that comes through from the rain. 28 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,890 And when this happens, it disrupts activities. So you have long traffic lines. 29 00:03:00,890 --> 00:03:06,950 You have people not being able to go from one part of the city to the other parts of the city, and then you have businesses being shut down. 30 00:03:06,950 --> 00:03:12,470 And you also have damage to the roads, to infrastructure because of the flooding that it will cause. 31 00:03:12,470 --> 00:03:20,180 Now, in terms of the governance structure of managements generally has a multilevel governance structure in the context of Nigeria. 32 00:03:20,180 --> 00:03:26,270 So the Fed well, we have a federal system in Nigeria, the federal governments, and then we have the state governments and then the local governments. 33 00:03:26,270 --> 00:03:31,190 Now each of these levels of governments share some responsibility for flood management or bad managements. 34 00:03:31,190 --> 00:03:38,420 Generally, the federal government usually sets the tone for policy for policies and then the tone for actual interventions. 35 00:03:38,420 --> 00:03:43,790 The state government often has to implement the policies within their jurisdiction and then also implement 36 00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:48,890 strategies and projects that would actually ensure that your brand management's objectives are achieved. 37 00:03:48,890 --> 00:03:53,000 And then the local governments also have some role to play in terms of coordination of local efforts. 38 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:59,510 Usually, the local governments has a more direct impacts in the local communities because they are closest to the local communities. 39 00:03:59,510 --> 00:04:06,260 Now, in terms of the policy drive, we didn't adjusted, for instance, it was a lot of reliance has been placed on the National Mall. 40 00:04:06,260 --> 00:04:13,130 So we have a national act that deals with urban management and planning, and that act is also relevant within the context of doing things. 41 00:04:13,130 --> 00:04:18,710 But very recently in the House of Assembly within the state has been has been working on a new law 42 00:04:18,710 --> 00:04:24,140 that would actually govern urban management policies and prospects within the state specifically, 43 00:04:24,140 --> 00:04:33,120 rather than relying on the federal laws. Now this is has its merits because it would be more it would be more relevant to the local context. 44 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:39,410 This is a law that has been made by members of the community and members of the Legislature within that context in the states. 45 00:04:39,410 --> 00:04:44,480 But what we find is it mirrors very closely the provisions in the Federal Act as well, 46 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,110 and a lot of the provisions in both the federal and the proposed state law 47 00:04:48,110 --> 00:04:56,330 are usually tailored towards engineering solutions that are floating problem. So there's a lot of emphasis on getting permits for infrastructure, 48 00:04:56,330 --> 00:05:03,980 and there's also a lot of emphasis on building things like stormwater drainage systems, technological solutions to the flooding problem. 49 00:05:03,980 --> 00:05:09,740 And this has its merits, but it also has its demerits, as will show in the context of this conversation. 50 00:05:09,740 --> 00:05:16,490 Now these three levels of governance to very large extent, there's no coherence in how the policies are implemented. 51 00:05:16,490 --> 00:05:22,220 So whereas the policies look good on paper, the laws are the actual implementation. 52 00:05:22,220 --> 00:05:26,210 There's a disconnect. So for instance, the fact that before you erect a building, 53 00:05:26,210 --> 00:05:30,260 you need to get permits from the governments, especially within the within the jurisdiction of states. 54 00:05:30,260 --> 00:05:33,710 You need to get permits from the state governments and then the state government has to 55 00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:36,800 ensure that whatever structure you want to put in place is not going to cause problems. 56 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:43,970 For instance, you will be blocking drains or building in flood plains or creating more problems with the environment. 57 00:05:43,970 --> 00:05:47,120 Usually in practises, we find that people erect buildings, 58 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:52,100 and if you don't get the right licences and sometimes licences are requested for retrospectively. 59 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:57,980 So you have situations where the local authority comes and puts a sign saying bring down this building because it's causing one problem or the other. 60 00:05:57,980 --> 00:06:01,880 But in actual, in the actual sense of whether that building will come down or not is a different thing. 61 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:08,750 So there's a lot of underlying political issues and there's a lot of incoherence in how these policies are actually implemented on the ground. 62 00:06:08,750 --> 00:06:12,140 And of course, in the context of low low income citizens, 63 00:06:12,140 --> 00:06:16,250 they probably would not have the opportunities in terms of the finances to be able to actually erect 64 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:20,510 the kind of infrastructure that would be needed for technological solutions to flooding problems. 65 00:06:20,510 --> 00:06:26,770 So we find that that technological solution doesn't really work in the context of Low-Income Settings. 66 00:06:26,770 --> 00:06:30,920 Another another thing we find in the context of governance of governance, 67 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:37,820 architecture architecture floating in Nigeria is that there's a difference between what is in the books and what is practised locally. 68 00:06:37,820 --> 00:06:39,530 So a lot of the times the community, 69 00:06:39,530 --> 00:06:45,680 the households rely on local knowledge and understanding of their environments to actually come up with solutions to the floating problems. 70 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,900 And because the government doesn't really have a hands on approach in terms of actually managing what people do. 71 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:56,250 There's a disconnect between what's the engineering solution or the formal solutions would be and what actually can. 72 00:06:56,250 --> 00:07:01,350 Zone in practise, it is then that there's a minimal interaction between those informal solutions or 73 00:07:01,350 --> 00:07:06,540 informal systems and from our knowledge systems or from our governance systems. 74 00:07:06,540 --> 00:07:11,700 And fourthly, we have a limited capacity for enforcement, clearly because the local government isn't really well equipped. 75 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:15,390 So at the end of the day, some of the solutions so-called solutions, which are counterproductive, 76 00:07:15,390 --> 00:07:19,470 do not get nipped in the bud and go ahead and creates more problems in the long run. 77 00:07:19,470 --> 00:07:24,150 And then finally, like I already mentioned, there's an emphasis on technical solutions or technology, 78 00:07:24,150 --> 00:07:27,090 and this technology may not be accessible to people. 79 00:07:27,090 --> 00:07:34,320 And essentially, in terms of the effectiveness of technology, we find that there are other important factors because while you may have a technology, 80 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:40,890 if people do not have the right knowledge to handle or use this technology productively, then it could cause more problems. 81 00:07:40,890 --> 00:07:47,070 For instance, if you have a drainage system and people for one reason or your that start to put the waste management system which blocks it, 82 00:07:47,070 --> 00:07:50,430 then the drainage system will not achieve the result, which it's supposed to achieve. 83 00:07:50,430 --> 00:07:57,030 So essentially, while technology has its merits, there are also non-technical factors which are more social that needs to be taken into account. 84 00:07:57,030 --> 00:08:00,480 And this would include capacity of the people to actually engage with this technology 85 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,560 productively and also the understanding of how technology should work and even maintenance, 86 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:09,240 for instance, because if the local people always have to rely on external people to come and maintain, 87 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,660 then there could be a problem, especially in the context of Low-Income Settings. 88 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:18,810 So what has happened is there's a picture, there's a picture there which shows a. 89 00:08:18,810 --> 00:08:30,090 I think we have. OK, so when I showed the first slide with the map, there's a roof there, which is supposed to be the Legault's being expressed. 90 00:08:30,090 --> 00:08:34,350 It's an expressway if federal road. And this is a route when it becomes flooded. 91 00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:37,680 Now this flood has happened, it's a federal route. 92 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:42,600 But clearly, people using the route are everyday people and they have to find a way of dealing with the problem, 93 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,670 and I'll show you how to try to deal with it. 94 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:49,350 So in essence, well, it was a federal route and the rest of was the federal government to maintain this route. 95 00:08:49,350 --> 00:08:54,030 The problem that result actually affects people at the level of the state and at the local level, 96 00:08:54,030 --> 00:09:03,180 and they try to come up with solutions which may not always be effective and which may not always be sanctioned by the federal government. 97 00:09:03,180 --> 00:09:05,400 Now what are the solutions people have tried to come up with? 98 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:11,340 I've tried to conceptualise the solutions into four main categories, and one of them is isolation. 99 00:09:11,340 --> 00:09:14,100 In that case, people have a problem with flooding, 100 00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:21,390 and then they decide on what would be the best solution to protect themselves or their properties from the damage that could result from flooding. 101 00:09:21,390 --> 00:09:25,440 And a lot of the times when they carry out the solutions is carried out in isolation in 102 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,280 the sense that they do not take into consideration what their neighbours are doing, 103 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,790 and they also do not take into consideration what the effects of their actions would be on their neighbours. 104 00:09:33,790 --> 00:09:37,680 So it's an eyesore missionary approach to addressing the flooding problem. 105 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:44,610 Now this solution is contrary. I think it's contrary because it doesn't lead to an effective solution to the problem. 106 00:09:44,610 --> 00:09:53,760 And I also see that it's insignificant in insignificance, insensitive to the extent that it doesn't take into consideration a good understanding 107 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,350 of what the environmental impacts would be or what people's responses would be. 108 00:09:58,350 --> 00:10:05,490 Now I know that another approach we usually find is alliance to the extent that people get involved at a community level. 109 00:10:05,490 --> 00:10:07,680 We would find committee meetings. 110 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:13,200 Sometimes you have house when I was in the neighbourhood coming to get out to try and look for a common solutions to their problems, 111 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:20,730 so people get involved to talk about the problem and then they try to forge solutions. But sometimes you find that they agree on a solution. 112 00:10:20,730 --> 00:10:25,800 But when it comes to actual implementation, some people do not get involved. Maybe because of the costs, 113 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,180 or maybe because they think that the benefits which do gain from that intervention 114 00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:34,350 outweigh the monies that would have to spend in terms of getting the solution running. 115 00:10:34,350 --> 00:10:39,930 So as a result of that, you have them aligning themselves with the preparatory processes but refusing to 116 00:10:39,930 --> 00:10:43,560 get involved in the actual implementation and refusing to invest in the process. 117 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:49,800 And so I've described that as being an alliance now on the top right corner, there's competition. 118 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:55,530 In that case, people understand what the problem is. They understand the possible consequences of their actions. 119 00:10:55,530 --> 00:11:00,270 But they refused to do things in connexion with other people because they probably have the 120 00:11:00,270 --> 00:11:04,800 resources to be able to capture whatever solutions they are and use it for their own benefits, 121 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:10,260 irrespective of how it would affect other people in the environments or even the actual environment in itself. 122 00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:15,570 Beyond the effects on humans in the environments, but the ideal situation would be one of cooperation. 123 00:11:15,570 --> 00:11:20,700 And for me, cooperation is a suspicion in which people understand how their actions impact on the environment. 124 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:26,610 They also understand what the neighbours would be doing or what people in the environment would be doing to react to this problem. 125 00:11:26,610 --> 00:11:32,430 And they try to see how best to reach a solution that would be a Win-Win solution in the sense that they protect themselves. 126 00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:37,830 But he also did not cause harm to other people in the environment, so that would be the ideal situation, one of cooperation. 127 00:11:37,830 --> 00:11:43,890 And I've described it here as being affirmative in the sense that it is positive and that it's also of significance, 128 00:11:43,890 --> 00:11:47,850 intensity and the outcome which produces. 129 00:11:47,850 --> 00:11:56,220 So one example of isolation would be this the story behind this picture is the Florida picture I showed you inédit had it floating. 130 00:11:56,220 --> 00:12:04,440 What happened is because the what I would gather as more and more rain fell forward into people's neighbourhoods. 131 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,230 And this is one of the neighbourhoods that has been affected. 132 00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:13,150 This picture over here used to be ruled, so it wasn't on tarred road, but at least it was possible. 133 00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:22,090 But because of all the water coming in on that side as a petrol station, so the petrol station builds a barrier around themselves. 134 00:12:22,090 --> 00:12:27,370 And as a result of that, the water could ensure any more forward and the water started coming back into the streets. 135 00:12:27,370 --> 00:12:35,710 And that is how the street became the way it has become. Now, on the other side of the story building, there is a new complex being set up. 136 00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:40,680 That person bought the property and realised that if he left it like that, the water would come into his own property. 137 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:47,860 And so he also built a barrier around his property. So on both sides, the built barriers and then what has been forced into down the streets. 138 00:12:47,860 --> 00:12:52,060 And so that's an example of how people build barriers that protects themselves well, 139 00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:58,240 because it does in isolation, it compounds the problem for the collective. 140 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:06,910 Now, this is an example of competition in this case, what they did is that they channel the water away from themselves. 141 00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:13,780 And this is the possible what I would then see over time because of what I would think backpacks consistently, it has started to erode the road. 142 00:13:13,780 --> 00:13:19,480 So the road is becoming damaged. Now this is the other side of the flooded part that I showed you before now. 143 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:25,000 So at the end of the day, you're protecting, they're protecting themselves. But because they're channelling the water in a way from themselves, 144 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,500 because they understand that the water can be channelled out of their own properties to the adjoining property. 145 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:33,480 They are creating more problems again for the collective. 146 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:39,780 Now, this is alliance in this case, this is when I described to you about people actually getting involved in what should be the solution, 147 00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:42,030 but because maybe the cost is too much for them to be. 148 00:13:42,030 --> 00:13:47,550 Or do you think the benefits do derive from that collective solution is not what they decide to do something that would benefit them directly. 149 00:13:47,550 --> 00:13:52,800 So this is alliance and the effects of this is we have high rates of I mean, 150 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,760 they've been cases of people dying because of the flawed cases of children, for instance. 151 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,600 There was once a child coming back from school, was crossing the route and then got, 152 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,030 you know, carried away by the floodwaters as it has been morbidity, 153 00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:11,070 morbidity, mortality and morbidity, loss of lives, loss of livelihoods, economic livelihoods, loss of property value. 154 00:14:11,070 --> 00:14:16,220 And then there's been people moving away from the community because of the flooding problems. And there are some pictures to show. 155 00:14:16,220 --> 00:14:20,520 So this used to be a shop, but then the store owner had to shut it down because of course, 156 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,940 no one's going through that route anymore and have also built some kind of embankments. 157 00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:30,330 You can see the something they've built in front to raise the front of the building such that water doesn't come in when it rains. 158 00:14:30,330 --> 00:14:37,920 And then this is a view petrol station. But I've also had to put so much sand in front of it that cars can no longer driving to buy petrol from them. 159 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:43,950 So the petrol station is more or less losing. Business is more or less shut down now. 160 00:14:43,950 --> 00:14:50,910 This used to be seen by markets where people used to sell wood, but of course, because of the flooding problem is no longer in business. 161 00:14:50,910 --> 00:14:56,010 And this used to be a route in front of the house, but the road is no longer passable and so they've also lost. 162 00:14:56,010 --> 00:15:02,520 The property has also lost value because people can no longer come here to live as a result of this problem. 163 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:10,170 Now, in the context of all of this, I see that cooperation is a mean ideal situation we should be looking at. 164 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:14,970 But then it is not what exists on the ground without all that solutions that people are adopting, 165 00:15:14,970 --> 00:15:19,440 which may not be the best, including competition, isolation and alliance. 166 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:26,220 My background is in law, but I understand that, for instance, there are people working in sustainable water management. 167 00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:32,310 More from a technical aspects that try to map people's approaches to flooding and people's adaptation strategies. 168 00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:38,160 So I think that it would be important for the lawyers to actually collaborate with these technical fields and 169 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:46,920 see how best we can try and convert people's actions or try and incentivise people to move from competition, 170 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,710 alliance or isolation to actual cooperation. 171 00:15:49,710 --> 00:15:55,050 Because cooperation is the ideal situation in which we're are able to get a win win for both individuals and the collective and, 172 00:15:55,050 --> 00:15:56,940 of course, the environment as well. 173 00:15:56,940 --> 00:16:02,580 So here I've put down six probable pathways to cooperation, but there could be more, of course, depending on the local context. 174 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:07,200 So the ideal would be to move from competition to cooperation and to do that, for instance. 175 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,840 There has to be different levels of autism of learning. 176 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:15,540 So first of all, because in competition, people already have an understanding of what the environmental consequences are, 177 00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:22,470 then that should be encouraged so that understanding should be encouraged. But beyond that, we have to try to change people's assumptions as well. 178 00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:28,620 The assumption that protecting oneself is the most important thing, and once we protect ourselves in the short term, 179 00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:31,470 then we can ensure that we do not suffer consequences in the long term. 180 00:16:31,470 --> 00:16:36,900 And that's a wrong assumption because clearly even is flawed or cause even though one's property is protected, 181 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:41,780 the fact that a sort of cause and there could be some kind of disease outbreak, one cannot be protected from that, for instance. 182 00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:45,660 So those assumptions need to be corrected at second order learning. 183 00:16:45,660 --> 00:16:52,380 And then finally, there has to be an emphasis on also showing that there's need to move from a focus on just one's 184 00:16:52,380 --> 00:16:57,120 own beliefs or one's when admissions and protection to actually ensuring the collective good. 185 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,940 Because at the end of the day, once the environment is protected, 186 00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:05,880 the benefits are more sustainable and it's more widespread and more consistent for everybody in the environment. 187 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:11,490 So competition would then require three at least three levels of learning, and then isolation would require, for instance, 188 00:17:11,490 --> 00:17:17,490 more knowledge, because at that level, the people really do not understand how their actions affect all the people. 189 00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:22,710 So it would be important that we invest more in improving people's understanding of the environmental 190 00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:27,060 consequences of their actions and how their actions would affect other people in the environment. 191 00:17:27,060 --> 00:17:31,320 So not just the environmental consequences, but also the social consequences as well. 192 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:36,900 And at the level of alliance, it will be important to try and convince people about the need for negotiation of the benefits. 193 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:41,370 So the fact that you already understand the environmental consequences is already a good step. 194 00:17:41,370 --> 00:17:48,270 But beyond that, they need to understand how to move from just focussing on what benefits them as individuals and to see how best 195 00:17:48,270 --> 00:17:53,490 they can actually get involved in the actual implementation of the collective solutions that have been reached. 196 00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:56,610 So does that a three or does that to six batteries that I think could be 197 00:17:56,610 --> 00:18:01,710 considered in the long term in terms of adaptation strategies and in enhancing? 198 00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:05,280 So that's what I've just explained a solution that needs to be more knowledge. 199 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:11,610 Competition days have negotiation and then change of assumptions and allows it to be integration between what we could do 200 00:18:11,610 --> 00:18:17,160 in the individual space with what happens at a collective level and for cooperation and cooperation is the ideal system. 201 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:23,940 So we need to just try and reinforce that. But of course, as shown in the example here, we really don't have institutional cooperation just yet. 202 00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:29,640 So in essence, for me, when it comes to enhancing adaptation strategies in low income settings, 203 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:37,980 we need to look beyond just the focus on technologies to also look at. The core aspects, especially capacity and their knowledge as well. 204 00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:43,560 And if we think about this in the broader context of the tragedy of the Commons, for instance, the fact that once you have commons, 205 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,100 there will always be this tendency for people to want to just protect themselves 206 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,910 gets what he can without actually putting more into protecting age from damage. 207 00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:56,880 So that's something that needs to be addressed, and that is something that cannot be addressed sustainably through just technology in itself. 208 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,720 It has to be addressed by combining both technology and soft. 209 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,530 Well, what we would call the softer elements, but non technical aspects like knowledge, 210 00:19:04,530 --> 00:19:11,220 knowledge dissemination and chains that promotes collective the collective good and collective outcomes, 211 00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:24,050 rather than focussing on just individual benefits or individual outcomes. Thank you. 212 00:19:24,050 --> 00:19:32,990 Thank you so much. All right, questions.