So, John, there seems to be functioning now, um, you told me over lunch that, uh, you started your career in urology by being a student.
Um, how surgeon for, uh, cans of the Radcliffe Infirmary during the war is that?
Uh, that's, uh, quite correct. Um, but I think before I say any more.
I ought to and say that I've been told that I was to talk about my time in jail and so I should apologise to my distinguished colleagues,
um, whom I do not mention, and perhaps it just as well I don't mention them because I wouldn't be able to do them justice.
Yes. And I was a student husband, uh, a few cans, because during the war on nearly all the young doctors,
uh, were in the 40s, uh, so there were no registrars.
And the qualified housemen, uh, were divided between, uh, two wards and the students as I the students, um, uh, as I said, this harassment.
Right. And then and then and, uh and uh and after I done, uh, a job and as a house physician,
I realised that I didn't know how to examine the nervous system, which I thought would be a good idea, uh, to work for you and.
I was quite right that I didn't know how to examine the nervous system, but I remember that.
Um, and early on, he tore up my notes and, uh, patient and said that I ought to, uh.
Right, right. Write them again and get them right.
Uh, you can put an up to a large extent concerned at the time with the military hospital for, uh, head injuries, it's a huge college.
But he played some part in the ward.
But a great deal of the work was done by Joe Pennebaker.
You can with a pupil of Harvey Cushing's, uh, Harvey Cushing in the United States, who made.
Uh, neurosurgery, a successful business.
Yeah, Harvey, uh, showed that.
Your system was to be, um, very slow and meticulous.
And you can like the other three, uh, British pupils of Harvey Cushing, um, um, and, uh, Jeff Jefferson and Dot.
Um, yeah, you operated slowly and were meticulous, whereas Joe Pennebaker, um, was quick and meticulous.
And you can very kindly became my my medical medical adviser, um, um, uh, after I mean, that his housemen.
I did when I qualified, I did various types of jobs.
Um. And I worked for, uh, Russell Brand and Daglish MacAlpine, um, in London and, uh, unfertilised.
Uh. And the end end of that time, you you say that Richard Russell, an agent and assistant.
Uh, and why didn't Dad become a combat assistant, Richie?
I had been a consultant in Edinburgh, but was easily, uh, we ran away.
He tried to use up the hospital.
So you guys knew his work. And he was happy to leave and the, um.
Well, neurologists were, uh, dominated by, uh, by Norman not.
However, when he started this department, uh, was in the corridor outside another one.
And there was a chair with a, uh, uh, a table with a typewriter on it and the chair for his secretary and Richard sat in a low chair.
Um, uh, BIA's. And people walked up and down the corridor.
He had to withdraw his long legs. And I have a.
And by this time, the head injuries hospital had moved to Wheatly or more strictly to Hilton on the sides of the president school and then.
Uh, Richard, and Challenge, which is his number two and I.
Oh, what that, um, um, uh, uh, the punch cards and the original notes and, um, derived from the, uh, head injuries hospital.
She had created the punch cards. On all the patients with penetrating head injuries.
One of his. Colleagues describe this as Russell's folly, but they they proved extremely helpful and gave rise to a lot of papers.
Where work you put me onto? Uh, the.
Uh, um, the injuries, uh, the small injuries.
Affecting the, uh, visual radiation and the, um, visual cortex.
I go to New Hampshire for four more years, experience in the first four.
And, uh, emphasise. And that the visual radiation had an upper and lower part, which.
Gordon Adams had emphasised that the visual radiation was divided into an upper and the lower part, which were quite distinct.
But I was able to show that it was a continuous, uh, sheet.
And I showed the visual effect, which came from.
Uh, damage to the intermediate part and I was able to show.
No, to give more detail to the representation on the visual field, uh, in the, uh, uh, visual visual cortex.
And. If I could interrupt you one note, my impression is that your first paper, uh, published paper was on Pheochromocytoma.
Your your impression is quite correct, right?
How does that come about? When I was. Before I did a.
Um. The job, if you can, I was Professor Alliss, a student Harshman.
And. We had a patient with a fake tamer.
And in those days, the BMJ would publish. Uh, unusual cases as single cases.
Uh, so with, uh, the help from Alice Stewart, who is really running provincial elections, um.
Uh, uh, uh, this patient up, uh, and he was published in the BMJ.
Right, but I interrupted you all on the visual system.
Um, also at that time or that time, you published a famous paper on No Forms.
Well. That came a bit later because the.
Uh, head injury hospital, head injury hospital was still receiving.
Uh, new patients because of the wars in Malaya and, uh, against the mammo in Kenya.
And some of these patients needed, uh, rehabilitation, quite long rehabilitation.
And this was done at Headington Hill Hall, later at the home of Robert Maxwell.
And. Amongst these patients was somebody who had, uh.
Quite a localised, uh, penetrating injury.
And he complained. And if he'd lost his sense of direction.
For instance, when he came out of.
Um, in an underground station like Piccadilly, which had several exits, he had no idea in which direction you ought to go.
Of Zengerle, um, was interested in this patient.
And, uh, and he discovered. This man also had lost his number four on.
No, no form. And only a limited number of people.
And I have no form. And incidentally.
It was first described in the eighteen hundreds by the same man who described, uh, the,
uh, you know, the, uh, fingerprints, uh, and how they were different in every person.
A number four means. The people who happen, they can see numbers in a particular pattern.
Uh. It may be difficult for them actually to describe the pattern.
And it can be, um, uh, of no particular geometrical shape, but.
Um, just at random. And you may have no phones, but the weak phones and the phone and I dare say, um, in other cities.
And these may be. Yeah, and also random or, uh, some in some particular shape, um, like their lips.
Anyway, this patient in lost his number home. And.
To establish the parts of the brain, which might be a concern with this Unnim, the angle and I.
And the patient up. And all of us will put all all the work into it.
I know all the knowledge you. But he said that when he published papers, he always insisted on the authors being in alphabetical order.
Um, an interesting feature for somebody named Z.
And. So this was your brief ish excursion into the neurology of her cerebral function?
Well, you see, you have the visual cortex and that is this with the visual purposes.
Yes. Um, the no form. Yes, yes. Yes. Um, that must have fascinated Richie.
Uh, he was interested. Yes. Yes, yes.
Yeah. He was pleased about that. But then he turned you to the area that really made you famous.
Um. Yes. When he started, he didn't have many facilities and none of the facilities he lacked was any beds in Oxford.
His bids were at stake, Mandaville. Which is 20 miles away and the.
That in itself was a convenient. Also, it was the hospital where Goodman was and then.
A dominant. And Goodman wasn't the easiest person to get on with.
It's. But this was a minor disadvantage.
More important. With the fact that there were no facilities for, uh, proper investigation, uh, neurological patients.
Professor, which was an official professor of medicine and has his main page in the Radcliffe Infirmary and on the College Board, but he also had.
Umbrage at the church, a hospital in Ward 13 and 14.
Um. And it was arranged that. Uh, uh, Richie could use, uh, four of those beds.
If a patient who would have an planful grams and Jerry Grams or MG.
Yeah, in case they've been forgotten and careful, careful,
REM's involved putting a needle into the base of the skull and bubbling out and upset the ventricles and, uh, and they showed up on X-rays.
And Grams were done by injections directly into the carotid artery.
Now, this this was inconvenient, but reasonably satisfactory, except that I needed a six page.
Not for. And on the rare occasions when which himself was going to pass.
Right, right. Um, you have the Churchill. The Churchill.
There would always be panic to try and explain. We had six patients when he was only entitled to four.
And. And she was inclined to be, uh.
A distressed at. At the prospect of the festivities of Christmas and one Christmas, he said to me, John will never get in bed with.
Which being interpreted. I mean, we're just about to get better, you know?
And then we got an 13 and 14.
In their entirety, in their entirety. Uh.
And on another occasion, he said to me, John, we'll never get you a permanent job in Oxford.
Which also meant that I was just about to get to become a consultant.
It's spoil my Christmas, but I'm glad I'm glad that it turned out all right.
But you knew him well by then, did you recognised that this was a good prognostic sign?
I did not recognise it. It's not my Christmas, David. And.
Round about this time. Yeah, um, uh, Nuffield for you was built on top of the, uh, the other other two world awards in the NFL block.
And. I was allotted space in what was colloquially known as the neurological nassery.
And I shared it with John Marshall, who later was a professor at Green Square.
And with our pool, uh, the, uh, egg expert.
Polio was rife at this time, um.
All over Europe. This may have been because of the Americans, uh, coming over in quantity in the war.
Polio had been rife. Yeah, in America before the war.
The most celebrated patient being, uh, President Roosevelt.
And you know who got it early in life not long before he was president?
Um. Eleven hundred patients who were infected with the virus and only one were to get symptoms.
The other. I might go on excreting the virus for two or three weeks.
So there was ample opportunity for people to spread, spread, spread the, uh, the virus.
Anyway, there were. A lot lot of breaks in your.
In the Oxford district, the paediatricians will take patients with palaeo.
Because the disease had been known as infantile paralysis. But.
And this time, infants were not affected at and if as young adults who are being affected.
The orthopaedic surgeon. It would take the patient to retaliate, but only when they'd cease to be infected and say after two or three weeks.
And that was the. Respiration was affected.
That was the time when. Uh, the patients were in greatest danger.
These patients used to go to the infectious diseases hospital who did not have the facilities for looking after a patient with respiratory difficulty.
So a. I decided to.
And give treatment. And to these these people who otherwise would not be treated.
There was a there in the neighbourhood of Aylesbury and he set up.
Uh, you need that to treat and the rest Wikipedia.
And he treated them in tank respirators. What proportion, approximately, were requiring respiratory assistance amongst those who became symptomatic,
amongst those who became symptomatic, when was it a big problem, a respiratory and weakness?
I don't know what what proportion it was. But.
One of the ways in which polio. It could become localised or worse with exercise and lots of people take exercise in their legs.
So there was a great deal of polarity in, you know, um, uh, fixing primarily the legs like President Roosevelt.
But also. It could affect any part of the body.
So I think it's pretty parallel with. It was relatively uncommon, but because there were so many cases of polio.
Um. And the settlement, there were quite a number of cases of polio.
And was the task given to you to essentially take over and develop the methods of, uh, managing the respiratory failure?
I was not concerned. And with the Al Amesbury respiratory patients who were all treated in 10 French patients, right.
And the tankless writer. It is a box.
And about the shape of a coffin, but with the patient's head sticking out and an airtight seal around the neck.
And it works well in the air and in it to produce respiration.
There was a big pump which sucked out of the respirator.
So that, uh, atmospheric pressure, uh, pushed into the lungs.
And then the process was reversed and the patient breathes out. And this happened at whatever time remains.
I would I would say. The tunnel was.
The patient who had respiratory failure. Usually, but not always.
I definitely was following. So that.
The saliva was touching with each breath.
Uh, and the patients were not able to cough, so their lungs got damaged.
Uh, and they died. Uh.
The Dems argued that was a lack of hygiene.
And that in Denmark was a very hygienic place.
So when they got an outbreak of polio. That they hadn't any respirators to fall back on.
And unless the infectious diseases, a doctor and his anaesthetise.
Argued that a patient with respiratory failure. There's much in the same state as a patient in paralysed with care for an operation.
So they treated that patient with rectally failure.
But integrating them and connecting them to an understanding machine.
And having medical students to squeeze the bag of the anaesthetic machine.
Um. This eliminates the problem of, um, swallowing because the, uh, intercranial tubes were cuffed and, uh, sealed off the saliva from the lungs.
As soon as this paper was published, I think about nineteen fifty one.
It was obvious that this was the way to go. Um.
But we couldn't have a medical student, so we needed a machine to do the same work.
It gets used in all sorts of, uh, uh, uh, independent means, had been making apparatus, uh, on demand for the physiologies,
uh, since the middle of the war, and Ritchie asked him to devise and, uh, um, uh, respirator.
We should take the place of the medical student. It just went through, um, a number of different phases.
But ultimately became a commercial machine.
And then there's the East Rateliff, uh, brainteaser.
And this. Continued to sell well until, uh, electronics, uh, made, uh, the control of respecters, uh, so much, uh, but better, uh, and easier.
Blaming dry up into. Uh.
The language. Uh, uh, can cause them secretions to form across, um, which can't be sacked out again.
Yeah, so John Marshall and I. Made a humidifier, a hot water humidifier.
In the. Uh, it was blowing blown into the lungs by the respirator and pass over this side so that only,
uh, w w, uh, went in and this was incorporated, incorporated in the Streetlife, uh, respirator.
Yeah. And then having.
Developed this method of, uh, maintaining respiration and polio, you then, I think, moved on to.
But quite a range of neurological conditions. Uh, yes, we did.
And. Now, the year says the success of this.
No, it was a huge help because Richie went to Professor Macintosh of the Department of Anaesthetics.
And Arthur. And anaesthetise to.
Um. And you may be allotted to and the respiration is.
Yeah, this is Alex Cramton Smith. Who has an excellent anaesthetise?
And particularly come under stress. And it was it was also by chance, and he and I lived in different parts of the same house.
He said that we could discuss together the problems which seemed so difficult at the time and so straightforward now.
And. Polio is in everybody's mind.
And therefore, there was a lot of charitable money going towards it and the the polio fund was founded.
Well, uh, very active. Uh, uh, chief, the chief executive.
The bailout fund built opposite, what, 13 of a restoration unit?
Uh. Which provided for.
Uh, uh, uh, to a three to bed ward.
And, uh. Not only to beat it, but big enough, you have, uh, to put to rest rotation, just unusual offices.
And it also builds the opposite, what, 14? Uh uh.
And, uh, officers, uh, offices, uh, and, uh, laboratory.
The patients who were, um, intubated had more irritation, endotracheal tube, and then they than the modern ones.
And if they do remain in place in the larynx, the larynx was damaged.
So tracheotomy. Yeah, in trying to make sure we're done so that the larynx was not damaged.
At first, we cut down the tubes. But.
And. And. And Smith and I.
Uh, uh, introduced, and then a tracheotomy to a cough cough to try a tracheotomy to, um, with the right angle, which are much more convenient.
He's also enabled. The pipe from the respirator had to be connected, um, by, uh.
A magnet, which is a much better, safer.
It couldn't, of course, be screwed on because the Nazis used to ask questions out of the church whenever necessary.
Uh. As you were saying, John, well, the results from.
Treating that makes. And the best result was the man who continued to be continued as a down there on his colleagues, gave him a dance Aastrom.
That in most of the patients. There was considerable disability.
And quite a number of them. They remain paralysed from the neck down.
And they returned home and looked after my devoted relatives, all carried.
And some of them made quite a life of it. But I remember one who refused to have a magnet, a magnetic connexion to his tracheostomy tube.
He tried to make. Uh, what had been a promising career.
But, uh, it was not successful in that. And his.
Uh, aspirator became disconnected. And he died.
His sister just, uh, uh, told me that he did not want to leave, and I imagine that, gee, wish he would have disconnected it.
Um. But we also had an.
The other patients who are great deal. And that more, according to St.
These included early on. And patient and patient Galen Badday syndrome.
The first one we had. And, uh, w.
It could only communicate by moving her eyes. And.
Up for years and sideways for No. I grew up.
Uh, four years inside biosphere, no, but yet after she was discharged, she was playing in a tennis tournament in Oxford.
It must've been, uh, very exciting moment when you, uh, took to extending the diagnosis that you were treating.
It certainly was. In fact, she referred to it as a case of Periyar.
Well, that was also the difficult diagnosis, wasn't it, depended on whether there was sensory abnormality or not?
Absolutely right. Yes, yes. And in fact.
Polio never or hardly ever affects the face.
Where is it? It was quite a notable feature of gay marriage in the.
But, uh. This was not not, uh.
Not widely appreciated as it was when, uh, the differential diagnosis became important.
Yeah. Well, then you moved or you extended, I shouldn't say move, you extend it to my senior Gravas to terseness.
Yes. And to probably various other things as well.
Well, myasthenia gravis. And we could keep them alive, but of course, we.
Uh, just try and make them stronger. And we tried various things.
We are modest, says.
The stakes now seem please, please let me bother with them, because and when I retired, they very kindly, um, gave me a living, uh.
And he also treated tetanus. And I found a lot of adults were involved in the war and my, um, inoculated against tetanus,
but they a bit too early to be involved in the war and those who are young who were not immunised.
So are you still seeing it? I remember one patient who.
It was digging her kitchen garden and stuck before through her foot.
And she said it yourself, I must get to and I get it it.
And she went to a neighbour. His professional life involved worked with the state in this business and he said you might get tetanus.
But they did nothing to prevent her getting tetanus. And she did get to finish.
And she said to me. I've seen people die of tetanus in the First World War when I was a kid, and it's a terrible death.
And don't prolong things. Yeah, yeah, so what?
Why don't I get on that? But I persuaded her to be bebetter.
And if you let her not let her live, so so we treated her.
And the way that we treated this with some.
And Bikila Yagman. Uh, so they're paralysed.
And the spouses spasms, uh, se.
Writing in Kira, reporting on the treatment sheet the same day, the same debate on.
But the. The only sensible way would feel are to allow the Nazis to give me more whenever movement movement started.
And at the same time as, uh, developing the treatment in the sense of extending, um.
Positive pressure, respiration to more diseases, you were also developing research into the nose system, I imagine,
because, uh, the, uh, autonomic complications of, uh, both the disease process and perhaps also the method of treatment.
Yes, that's absolutely true. But before I mentioned that.
Perhaps I should say. That.
Uh, this time, the BBC started a programme called Your Life in their Hands and the kind of treatments that went on in hospitals.
And the first of these programmes. Um, it was from the Ressurection and it was a, um and, um.
Uh. I showed up at my part of the programme, which to show the patients and describe what I know now that I've been treated,
and this is quite easy to do because there have been various, uh, medical visits before.
Uh, and, um, I had given that description.
Yeah, yeah, uh, plenty of times. The programme went out on a Wednesday evening, uh, live.
And. Uh, the BMJ went to press on Wednesday morning.
And in spite of that, they had no editorial. About the programme.
Which they did not approve. On the ground.
Uh. The patient couldn't possibly possibly understand it.
And that. Uh, there is a grave risk that patients, uh, might start making decisions for themselves.
This gave rise to a lively correspondence which gave welcomed publication.
Um, yeah. Uh uh uh uh, which I welcome leaves, um, promoted interest in the programme.
Oh, uh, yes. Uh, John, you were saying that.
And then we got interested in the autonomic.
And the reason for this was that both the gay marriage and the tetanus patients had trouble with their blood pressure or.
And when we first took the patience of our first very patient.
In, uh, to me, where they took the Patriots test on gay marriage, a patient in D.C. fixed up.
Uh, respirator. We were horrified that she was unconscious.
The parents fortune, they thought that actually if you underestimated unconscious.
But what had happened was that her blood pressure had vanished. And we tip that the head of the bed down and, uh, that visual imagery recovered.
And this sort of thing was a feature of the gay marriage.
The people, on the other hand, had exactly the opposite problem.
Their blood pressure went into this guy's. Even on one occasion, as high as two hundred and forty, one hundred and forty.
And they were not compatible with life for too long.
Uh. And ideological colleagues couldn't help as to the nature of this problem or what you might do about it.
Sir. So with the help of Geoffrey George, you I know a new college.
We started some investigations. We did the, uh, continuous records of the blood pressure from an arterial cannula.
And. You also had, um, intervenors, cannulate.
To measure the pressures and flows. We also, uh, tested, sweating.
And and with this apparatus. We applied various, uh, stresses to the.
Uh, circulatory system. And so whether the responses were normal.
In the game game barrier system. In patients who have circulatory system, uh, responses were not normal.
And some of them still retain the power to sweat, indicating that the, um, sympathetic system was intact or generate more or less intact.
And them probably the interruption of the secretary's reflexes was because they lost the afferent part of the.
Particularly. The input from the scientists.
And no doubt the. Um.
Uh, and then I never saw them naked and I see enough to the periphery.
Uh uh, well, uh. But then you were joined by various research assistant.
So we went through some of who went on to notable careers.
Yes. But we.
And the. There are other things to do with the Tiflis.
Tetanus is due to. Well, and the normal Lemonier and.
Is controlled in partly by acceptation.
And partly by an inhibition, and the tetanus toxin inhibits inhibition, leaving the excitation.
Uh, um, uh, I'm touched and this produces muscle spasm.
And we showed that. The same process affects the sympathetic system or can affect this sympathetic system.
So that. And there's intense, very basic construction and the especially the blood pressure at.
And at the same time. There's intense sweating.
No. And the fact that there were intense sweating, it was important because.
We were getting into a mess of a fluid balance.
And this because. We regarded an intangible loss.
As much the same as in most patient, when, in fact it was huge.
Unfortunately, when we discovered what was going on in the tetanus patients.
Uh, drugs were coming on the market, which enabled us, uh, to treat them.
They would have been beta blockers or beta blockers.
Yes, yes, yes. We had some other.
And we could look at the autonomic.
And people with other circulatory failures know came our way, including people with orthostatic hypotension whenever they showed up and they fainted.
Uh. But we weren't successful in keeping these people alive.
And David Oppenheimer, I looked at that pathology.
And so that the. Um.
Pregaming Glienicke sympathetic fire, but, yeah, pretty similar sympathetic nerve cells.
Up in the spinal cord. And disappeared.
And there were also troubled. Uh, uh, LTA elsewhere in the central nervous system, particularly the cerebellar connexions.
And he and the rest of us described this as multiple, multiple system disease.
There's also. Something rather similar.
Um, uh, clinical presentation, which, uh, Rajeevan this later described as a progressive autonomic.
Uh, Opah. Um.
And then we looked at spinal patients with spinal cord disease.
To see how many autonomic reflexes I persisted in the isolated spinal cord.
Uh. And in this would be people with spinal cord injury, people with spinal cord transactions.
Yes. And with his continued.
We would be concerned to a man who had a, uh, it's a bank transaction.
We applied. Uh, icepacks to his limits in these strong.
And his central temperature was quite considerably below normal.
And he said he didn't feel at all called. But he knew he must be careful because his teeth were chattering.
So this indicates that the sensation of Carol, depending on your skin temperature.
Whereas, you know, shrivelling depend on your central temperature. And I had an interesting interlude.
Went on this mission, I went to Morocco. Uh.
There had been an outbreak of paralysis.
Uh, and in Morocco. At first.
A few. A bit later. Up to several hundred a day.
Patients becoming paralysed. So the.
And I couldn't walk. And this was happening.
In a good deal of northern Morocco, but particularly in Magnis.
I say, what happened? This was just before the feast of the feast of the birth of the primate group.
And. This was celebrated by the king and therefore by the court.
Giving. Through one of the four capital cities. And it was the turn of magnet that year.
So. It threatened.
Um, uh, well, he cultivated an anxiety.
And the president said that it was all under control.
They were taking the necessary measures. But when asked for the necessary measures where they said they didn't know.
So they appealed to the United Nations, they couldn't get they couldn't appeal to France because France and just just,
uh, free and free Morocco, so they went to the United Nations and said, please send us some help.
We know that this is not a. So as Richie was an expert on earlier, he was asked for help and he sent.
On me. Yeah, and, um.
Indirectly, it became obvious that wasn't an infection and there was suspicion about.
Uh, the cooking oil. And we came back with a larger sample of.
Some of which were really very, very strange, looking at one of them being bright green was.
And we send them to the. A local. Uh.
Uh, yes, uh, chemical agency.
Who didn't did nothing, not after a fortnight said that he was too young, long in the tooth to examine that side.
Say, 20, 30. But, Fortunata.
On his brother was chairman of Shell.
And so he said she sent the samples.
To the. Uh. And, uh, uh, no, uh, laboratories, I think, in North Wales.
Who said that? They had applied various tests and including the particularly sensitive one, you're spending it.
And. I thought and confirmed can chemically.
The resident. A particular sort of oil and No.
One oh nine seven six or something similar. And this was a very expensive oil.
Which had been made. Four jet engines.
And it turned out. That the Americans had an airbase in Morocco, which for political reasons, they were closing down.
And they were selling off the oil.
I wish I had on the base. Uh, as a lubricant, no.
Um. They didn't take it away because.
The new aeroplanes have new engines and use a new sort of oil.
So. A large quantity of this oil came on the market.
That by the time you lubricated all the all the bicycle's in Morocco, you're still left with a lot of oil over.
So it was put on the market as a cooking oil, but unfortunately it contained also traditional phosphate.
Which was put in because it will stand the great temperatures in, uh, jet jet engine.
But he was also known for an outbreak in the. 1920S.
To, of course. Um, paralysis in the United States.
It had in the time of prohibition. And it being put into this, uh, something called Ginger Jake, which people drank, uh,
in the hope that it would be a substitute for alcohol during a particularly bad choice.
Because it doesn't have a taste and it is not easy for.
But anyway, it does cause paralysis. One of the people who the people in Morocco say they were.
Julie. Uh, approach to, uh, to justice.
And condemned to death. If a damaging the population in a big way.
And then that sentence was commuted. However, those who still had the oil.
I wanted to make some money, but I'd say it's ended up to the north of the country and started selling at the.
Well, there was another outbreak of paralysis. Surrenders.
And how long did you spend in Morocco? Um, on this project in the.
Uh, as long as it took and I think it took about a week, a week or so, uh, tomorrow, it's incredible to practise the result of being there for a week.
Uh, well, uh, people were helpful.
Well, that's, uh. But, uh, I mean, practically everything you would like to mention, uh, had been suggested.
Uh uh, Joan, if I could just ask you, you have this you, uh, you set up a system for, um,
treating people with neurological diseases that, uh, uh, involved, um, respiratory embarrassment.
So, um, you, uh, set up a system for, uh, investigation of the autonomic nervous system.
Basically, I know that you, uh, published, uh, something in the region of, uh, a hundred,
uh, um, the same time as, you know, working, uh, busy general neurologists, uh, and also.
But also in Northampton. Yes. Yes. How did you, uh, successfully combine all of this new Congress?
I that one had to do? Uh uh, well, if you send me a refund to do anything.
But, uh, you were mentioning earlier that we had a lot of, uh, taxation, uh, able students who did a huge amount of the work.
And. And one of them was a little lady who was that a AP a lot of years who returned to his native South Africa where he worked on hypertension,
uh, and cardiology. And he's recently been given an award for lifetime work on cardiology,
which attracted a lot of attention not only in medicine, but, uh, also amongst the general public.
I know that as a result, or maybe not. And I would also be pleased that the.
Who became professor of physiology in Edinburgh.
But I'm sorry to say that he died and there was Ralph Johnson.
With whom I probably could them in quite a lot of papers,
and he went down to Glasgow and then he was a professor at Wellington University and then he was a professor at Oxford.
Yeah, and he sadly died for a blistering witch and no good reason to introduce me to his garden.
And you published a book which I published by the Disorder on your system.
Uh. And then there's a Christmas at.
From India. And he did a lot of work, particularly on the spinal cord injuries and some of that back then, so Mandaville.
Um. And he said. Pressure in London at Madison and the Freedom Square.
And finally, when I was 60,
all that about the method of examining the system was changing from measuring vascular pressures and play to measuring chemistry and in the blood,
which we were setting up an entirely different sort of laboratory.
I would be far more difficult to understand. Uh.
I finished my time on the Council of the College of Physicians.
Um. And the Energy Department.
We're going to move fairly soon to the John John, uh,
Radcliffe and the restoration unit would be amalgamated with the intensive care unit very sensibly, but I would not I would no longer be involved.
Well, under attack.
Well, I think I think after that, you deserve to be able to move to the other things that you enjoy with some of the substance of this.
But really, what's selling them? Oh, yes. Yes. I wouldn't say that I love it.
Yeah, that was great fun. And then.
When we ran out of new places to sail to there, we'd been to Scotland and Ireland and Russia and Denmark.
Uh, uh, uh. And finally, finally to East Anglia.
And when we'd done all that and were beginning to feel a bit old for sailing, um, we took the bird watching, but.
We were, uh, to to, uh, to get any good at.
It's best to start when you are about 12 bird watching, bird watching pretty well.
We were never twitchers, twitchers. Yeah, we'll drive one hundred miles to see a bad road,
whereas we probably wouldn't have driven more than five miles to see a but we didn't go to and then, uh, Lattman to see a bag.
Yeah, that's not a very long journey, but it was so much fun. So it was there when you got there.
Yes. Yes. No, you said yes, of course.
Did you also served with Alex Smith? Because, uh, right.
He was a sailor. Too young, too much.
But when I was up there, it was based in port. His words.
He took his through the Mediterranean, through and through by the French French canals,
and he used to invite us down for a couple of weeks every year.
And he occasionally crewed for us. We had the best of both the north and the south.
So you sailed a lot on your own. But but you settled in in the Mediterranean.
Yes, on. Alex Crompton says yes, but he served with you and the North Sea.
Yeah, well, we like to actually act in the sea.
Yes. Yes. You going to go to work?
Cause, uh, we were on our way and, uh, we were on our way to Scotland.
What's fascinating, John, I thought I knew quite of I thought I knew, um, for the moment of the things that you had done,
um, was quite clear from what you been say in the, uh, last hour and half or hour.
But no one is about. But I can assure you now.
And how could you. Well, I, uh, I should have, uh, because, uh, you're one of my former bosses, of course.
Well, yes. Yes. And, um, so that's I about, um, that, uh, you should have.
How could love this. I couldn't. Now one of the things that you, uh, you said, you know, one of the things I was surprised how well-informed you were.