1 00:00:04,950 --> 00:00:07,710 Well, welcome back, everybody. 2 00:00:07,710 --> 00:00:16,410 So if I think I'm going to sound a little bit like Phil from yesterday, it was a rich and lively debate and discussion in our group, 3 00:00:16,410 --> 00:00:19,590 and I wish I'd been able to sort of whiz around all of the other groups. 4 00:00:19,590 --> 00:00:25,080 And it's my pleasure to sort of now introduce a series of people who will feedback from each of the groups and first of all, 5 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:30,330 many known to many of you. And certainly for those who came to Oxford two years ago, Alison was in many of the sessions. 6 00:00:30,330 --> 00:00:34,740 Alison Campbell to feedback from her group. Thanks, Joe. 7 00:00:34,740 --> 00:00:44,040 Well, we, of course, had a really good conversation and and it was quite wide ranging, but we did try to keep to the topic as much as we can. 8 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,740 So we actually we were talking, of course, 9 00:00:46,740 --> 00:00:54,000 about the importance of international collaboration and looking through that lens of UK and US collaboration. 10 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,840 We we moved on to a broader discussion not provoked by mail. 11 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:06,510 Have you know about collaborations, transnational collaborations, not just UK, US and the importance of those? 12 00:01:06,510 --> 00:01:17,070 And we felt that the the next UK alri relationship, in my view, was really fantastic and we'd welcome seeing that kind of thing happening more often. 13 00:01:17,070 --> 00:01:25,950 But we did also recognise that the challenges set around the purpose of creating such relationships, 14 00:01:25,950 --> 00:01:34,530 what you needed to get out of it and the importance really of having it, having a particular focus and a challenge based focus. 15 00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:43,350 And we talked about how you might we might think about approaching that and thought that, you know, global challenges were absolutely terrific. 16 00:01:43,350 --> 00:01:49,640 But the inherent issue with the global challenges that it was global. So everybody was facing the same challenge. 17 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,070 And so so there were two things that came out of that one. 18 00:01:53,070 --> 00:01:58,090 We thought that you potentially needed to start thinking about the layers below 19 00:01:58,090 --> 00:02:04,200 that and how you might get together and actually forge meaningful relationships. 20 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,150 And I guess really thinking about formalising those kinds of relationships, 21 00:02:09,150 --> 00:02:15,900 maybe at specific technology type level that then brought us on to talking about the fact that you you 22 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:22,890 needed to have some very active coordination to make that possible and to make that that meaningful. 23 00:02:22,890 --> 00:02:31,320 And that actually could be something that's built back from needs rather so very much a pull rather than necessarily a push and a 24 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:39,040 coordination where the sum of the parts were greater than individual and also the some of the parts didn't mean and duplication. 25 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:45,600 So we felt that your key was that that applied around that clustering direction and there was support. 26 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,170 But then we said, Well, who would do that? He would really try and bring that together, 27 00:02:49,170 --> 00:02:55,170 but a great example of European bioimaging and how that should really come together and 28 00:02:55,170 --> 00:03:00,960 that that really is about bringing diverse and different skills and expertise together. 29 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,010 But but a reflection that actually these things can take a long time and that 30 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:10,600 in itself took took 12 years to to get motoring it really properly embedded. 31 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:16,350 And so we need to we need to think about that. And I think one of one of the issues that came out was that, 32 00:03:16,350 --> 00:03:24,240 but I accelerated and then we moved on to some of the challenges that sat around transnational collaboration. 33 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,980 And of course, security came up as a big risk. 34 00:03:28,980 --> 00:03:33,720 And then we also discussed the the the worry and the concern about security as being 35 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,880 a potential inhibitor of relationships and pushing forward research and innovation. 36 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:48,060 And that said, it's very clear that the importance of building more due diligence into collaborations is is here to stay. 37 00:03:48,060 --> 00:03:55,740 It's going to have to grow. And with that, so not just the people who were doing due diligence, but as part of their job, 38 00:03:55,740 --> 00:04:00,750 but actually blending that into an awareness amongst the research community as well. 39 00:04:00,750 --> 00:04:09,270 And we saw some analogies to the entire impact agenda. There were not only were impact professionals and spawned as a culture, 40 00:04:09,270 --> 00:04:15,650 but also researchers themselves became much more familiar with the impact agenda. 41 00:04:15,650 --> 00:04:26,430 And we did feel that there could be some hope for for engineering this into things more because it is a pressing and significant issue. 42 00:04:26,430 --> 00:04:30,450 And one of my number did say saying, I think I think it's just worth repeating. 43 00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:36,900 You know, the recent speech from the MI5 director, which is talking about the importance of protection of knowledge. 44 00:04:36,900 --> 00:04:42,450 So my sense was that we needed funders to lead on this security issue. 45 00:04:42,450 --> 00:04:45,900 But where they led others would follow when we actually felt we'd like to make 46 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:50,850 a recommendation that we needed better resourcing at the due diligence support, 47 00:04:50,850 --> 00:04:59,700 particularly within universities. And finally, when we were looking at transnational collaboration and and the real benefits 48 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:04,770 and the challenges around it was collaboration and service was communication. 49 00:05:04,770 --> 00:05:07,590 And communication in all of its forms. 50 00:05:07,590 --> 00:05:17,010 And what we were reflecting on, and of course, is as many will have spoken about yesterday is is the fact that at the moment we're doing fine, 51 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:23,700 but we're having very transactional conversations. And if we're really serious about the research and innovation agenda, 52 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:32,940 we need to get back to having more creative and disruptive conversations that will spawn more ideas and actually more solutions. 53 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:38,250 And of course, the informality of conversations over coffee in the bar, cetera. 54 00:05:38,250 --> 00:05:45,060 So we think that that's absolutely crucial going forward. And I guess something that we we just felt it was important to flag. 55 00:05:45,060 --> 00:05:50,190 Was it really mustn't forget when we're looking at any of these kinds of sort of collaborative ventures, 56 00:05:50,190 --> 00:05:53,220 the importance of people and the importance of relationships? 57 00:05:53,220 --> 00:06:00,720 And then we have one final thing to to put in left field, which was not to assume that the world was indeed a level playing field. 58 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,730 And if we're thinking about diversity and diversity in all of its senses, 59 00:06:05,730 --> 00:06:10,960 we really have to consider and this is particularly within the communications piece that not every country 60 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:18,250 is quite on the same in the same place from a sort of technological and I.T. perspective as others. 61 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:26,010 And so we we need to think about that as we think about how we engineer some of these collaborations and with with that sort of diversity in mind, 62 00:06:26,010 --> 00:06:29,460 actually thinking about the fact that collaborating with some countries, 63 00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:35,940 South Africa, which which isn't as well provision actually may be an opportunity to look at where those needs 64 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:41,880 lie as part of the greater research and innovation challenges that that sit around the world. 65 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,680 So. So let's let's be open. Let's be diverse and let's keep talking. 66 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:57,150 That's a slinky. Hello, I'm are you going to reduce me or I'm going to introduce myself at this stage, it seems to be. 67 00:06:57,150 --> 00:07:03,330 I'm going to perhaps to you. Oh, that the esteemed Alice Frost. 68 00:07:03,330 --> 00:07:09,390 So my group was small, but but a really, really great problem-solving group. 69 00:07:09,390 --> 00:07:14,490 So I thought we made quite a lot of progress on the opportunities and the challenges. 70 00:07:14,490 --> 00:07:21,520 So, I mean, we started off, I was the only funder and I had some universities and they all beat me up for the question of funding bureaucracy. 71 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:27,630 And I confess to the fact that we have a collaboration fund called the Connecting Capability Fund. 72 00:07:27,630 --> 00:07:33,510 But we have funded, I think, a university in Columbia as a partner but wouldn't fund one in Scotland. 73 00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:41,280 So I think we then agreed that there, you know, and I think we in some ways, they forgave me and we dismissed from the bureaucracy to some extent. 74 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:49,410 But I think the team made a good point that, you know, they detected in funders and public agencies that speak, 75 00:07:49,410 --> 00:07:54,120 you know, there is a strong sense of unilateral agendas, 76 00:07:54,120 --> 00:08:03,270 the importance of their own countries and and therefore leaders and agencies need to speak in sort 77 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:11,040 of multi type multi not lateral in multilateral terms to encourage multilateral collaboration. 78 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,920 I think the second point we made was then we got really stuck into that. 79 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:19,200 So we thought that was quite the kind of some of the funders issues we talked about were probably too small scale. 80 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:25,530 And we really need to look at the kind of designing the big challenges that are really worth doing in a multilateral sense. 81 00:08:25,530 --> 00:08:33,750 And I think the team did really good in terms of defining where those kind of those kind of multinational kind of approaches were best. 82 00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:42,420 And I think a successful one we cited was under Pulse UK Government Prime Minister David Cameron. 83 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:47,820 There was something called the Venture Discovery Fund Simas, which looked into novel drugs, 84 00:08:47,820 --> 00:08:55,380 and it pulled together universities as universities and researchers, venture capital entrepreneurs, and that was thought to be a good model. 85 00:08:55,380 --> 00:09:03,240 And that was also noted the similar challenge that hadn't worked so well was something like antimicrobials. 86 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:08,880 I mean, I think the team then sort of defined the criteria for these kind of big challenge efforts, 87 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:14,670 and they were where there was a large, concerted effort is needed, but with a very focussed challenge. 88 00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:20,970 And that was the difference inside Ovid 19 and climate change that climate change is lots and lots of challenges, 89 00:09:20,970 --> 00:09:25,170 whereas COVID had that kind of real focus. 90 00:09:25,170 --> 00:09:29,130 And finally, it had to have it had to be a compelling problem, 91 00:09:29,130 --> 00:09:37,920 which put it at the put the problem at the highest level of attention in many different governments minds. 92 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:47,280 And I suppose we talked in terms of whether that was an opportunity in something like developing post-pandemic resilience in a multinational sense. 93 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,310 So I think that was a very interesting discussion there. 94 00:09:50,310 --> 00:09:58,350 And finally, I think as the analysis group, we then talked, although we withdrew from the kind of bureaucracy to the big picture. 95 00:09:58,350 --> 00:10:04,410 We then talked a little about social capital that underpinning these kind of big multinational challenges that. 96 00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:10,290 Multilateral challenges that governments and organisations might engage with, 97 00:10:10,290 --> 00:10:16,590 it is important underpinning that to have a sense of social capital and an end, 98 00:10:16,590 --> 00:10:25,140 a sympathy and engagement and a common language across the participants for these multi multilateral challenges to work well. 99 00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:30,730 Of course, then we reflected that science research is very much a. 100 00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:35,030 There is a sense of a common community, a common purpose and a common language. 101 00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:36,840 So it's not. 102 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:47,250 It's understandable why then many governments look to research and science and innovation as being a potential source of future multilateral actions. 103 00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:51,210 So that was all of you. Well, thanks, Ellis. 104 00:10:51,210 --> 00:10:57,270 So our group, my name is Fariba, by the way. I'm I work with Joe at the National Centre for Universities and Business. 105 00:10:57,270 --> 00:11:02,640 So we had a really great sort of, I guess, representative group in terms of industry, 106 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:08,490 university and kind of the third sector as well as across sort of international boundaries. 107 00:11:08,490 --> 00:11:14,100 We had representation from the states, Canada and the UK and Belgium, in fact. 108 00:11:14,100 --> 00:11:23,580 So really good discussion. I think we started out in perhaps a bit more negative on on the role of government. 109 00:11:23,580 --> 00:11:32,580 There was a in terms of impressions from a UK perspective, there was recognition that we've had the government has had great ambition, 110 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:42,630 but there's been a lot of setbacks in terms of the kind of communication and policy rhetoric that's that's come, come, that's kind of followed. 111 00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:49,980 And it's and there was recognition as well that it's been difficult to get through some of the red tape that makes collaboration happen. 112 00:11:49,980 --> 00:11:55,620 There was but recognising as well that we should be accountable to governments who allocate funding. 113 00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:58,800 That's that's obviously part of the equation. 114 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,750 But sometimes there's too much emphasis on the government itself kind of actioning that change and whether 115 00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:12,300 there's there's too much involvement at times and the kind of geopolitics that sometimes drives this agenda, 116 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:15,780 recognising that sometimes it's better to delegate to the partnerships to deliver 117 00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:20,490 the best work and allow those to kind of go forward and and make things happen. 118 00:12:20,490 --> 00:12:29,100 There was some discussion around whether a state can ever be truly entrepreneurial if it's if it's state driven. 119 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:34,950 But also understanding that the kind of sweeping away all of the red tape is doesn't always work. 120 00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:41,910 So there is a role for government and that and that can be around incentives and ensuring that we are making the right decisions, 121 00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:49,890 putting in the red tape where it's effective and making and putting in the right people to make quick and well-informed decisions. 122 00:12:49,890 --> 00:12:54,870 We we talked about seeing more scientifically educated people at the top table and that was a 123 00:12:54,870 --> 00:13:00,660 real positive and that that should be that should continue and they should be listened to. 124 00:13:00,660 --> 00:13:10,260 The flip side being that policy and science can then become intertwined and policy and policy changes and certain science has dropped. 125 00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:15,030 So I guess, you know, the fallout from COVID, for example, 126 00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:22,620 the public unhappiness can be directed at the scientists in the same way as politicians, whereas they're not they're not politicians. 127 00:13:22,620 --> 00:13:30,600 So really needing to take that kind of damages the public trust in science and and trying to obtain a balanced, 128 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:40,200 balanced approach where we're being collaborative but keeping keeping that the science and policy separate in the eyes of the public. 129 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:46,140 We talked about governments kind of truly incentivising global collaborations in R&D, 130 00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:55,320 building those linkages between institutions that where where universities find it difficult to create those in those partnerships themselves. 131 00:13:55,320 --> 00:14:02,250 And that really needs kind of that thoughtful government intervention to speed up and create those productive partnerships. 132 00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:13,610 So. Someone brought up the global pricing partnership approach that where a global carbon price pricing approach, 133 00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:20,120 where whereby I think governments agreed across different nations that what what, how they would approach it. 134 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:26,510 And that has really catalysed R&D collaboration with in that area in Canada. 135 00:14:26,510 --> 00:14:35,870 At a municipal level, we talked about the right approach to net to national government intervention intervention and where that those powers should 136 00:14:35,870 --> 00:14:45,050 perhaps be devolved and and how that can really incentivise regions to adopt recommended initiatives such as green energy, 137 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:55,000 for example. The discussion flowed into open access and open data, a really interesting but very nuanced debate. 138 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:04,420 Not every country views the role of open access in the same way, so recognising that sharing research routinely is very useful, but it can. 139 00:15:04,420 --> 00:15:12,870 In some instances, it is needed that closed data or closed research is a necessity. 140 00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:19,500 And then we got into the question the kind of discussion question, too, I guess, that the the challenges around collaboration, 141 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:27,660 which inevitably Brexit and the cuts to foreign aid were recognised as big challenges here in the UK. 142 00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:35,040 It's it's also been the kind of big drop that's been associated with postgraduates coming from abroad, 143 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,000 increasing numbers of protocols facing researchers when they wish to collaborate. 144 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,130 So that gets into the red tape debate. 145 00:15:41,130 --> 00:15:50,040 And GDPR has been a big one for for colleagues in the European Union and certainly in the for the UK in the past as well. 146 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:57,210 And that's kind of really prevented speedy responses to the pandemic as one example where whereby, 147 00:15:57,210 --> 00:16:03,870 you know, collaboration just didn't happen because there was so much GDPR red tape to get to get through. 148 00:16:03,870 --> 00:16:08,370 We also talked about again, the security issues, just like other groups, 149 00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:16,740 relationship with China have had been so closely scrutinised, and this has really hampered collaboration across the board. 150 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:23,370 Some institutions feeling caught between the the politics of international situations and and just not having clarity on where, 151 00:16:23,370 --> 00:16:29,250 you know, how to deal with this, where they can move forward, where they need to be more, 152 00:16:29,250 --> 00:16:38,140 more cautious and what are the guidelines and really needing that clarity to enable these partnerships to happen? 153 00:16:38,140 --> 00:16:45,940 We talked about the kind of multidisciplinary and interdisciplinarity of partnerships and how these are often created by organic contacts. 154 00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:54,070 Not always and but who aren't always necessarily the best people to collaborate on the work. 155 00:16:54,070 --> 00:16:59,380 So we need to be more strategic and cycle experts in and out of a project over a number of years. 156 00:16:59,380 --> 00:17:08,740 So not just the usual three year funding cycle, but making sure that that's kind of we're looking across the piece of a research project where new, 157 00:17:08,740 --> 00:17:13,540 new experts are able to become coming into that collaboration or that partnership. 158 00:17:13,540 --> 00:17:24,410 So needing to find the balance between many collaborative, collaborative sharing expertise but not diluting the outcomes. 159 00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:27,530 We also talked about where we're moving into. 160 00:17:27,530 --> 00:17:33,830 I think this was this kind of dominated the discussion of it where we're moving into an era that is that seems to be more state controlled. 161 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:39,260 There's that's definitely a concern. It has led to more interference. 162 00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:46,910 It goes even beyond budget cuts. But in some countries, this is becoming more of an ideological debate as there's been not. 163 00:17:46,910 --> 00:17:56,060 There hasn't been a lot of pushback because most believe that governments have reacted well to COVID and did not want to oppose the plans. 164 00:17:56,060 --> 00:18:04,160 So, so recognising again that R&D can be used as a political capital or collateral and the 165 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:11,060 kind of the funding or the policy initiatives haven't always followed the rhetoric. 166 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:18,710 And then we kind of touched on Eileen's point in the final and the final kind of questions in the last session, 167 00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:30,560 which are about how it's returning to this debate, debate about metrics and needing to consistently justify the funding and measure impact can. 168 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:38,750 And that return on investment can also hamper some of these commercial partnerships where impact is less tangible or may be longer term. 169 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:52,260 And this need to kind of satisfy the government and impositions around kind of shorter term impacts or or what demonstrating that returns. 170 00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:58,700 So a really, really lively discussion, and we made some really good progress. 171 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:02,480 I'll leave it there. OK, I'm going to assume you can all hear me. 172 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:09,290 All right. I'm Mark Shabnam, associate vice chancellor at North Carolina State University in the U.S. We had a very good 173 00:19:09,290 --> 00:19:14,780 discussion in our group and talked a lot about collaboration and as a function of partnerships, 174 00:19:14,780 --> 00:19:21,840 but also with a slant towards commercialisation. So and I should also note we ended up combining sessions. 175 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:29,690 So I'm somewhat giving an update on behalf of Greg King and his session as well and sharing that jointly. 176 00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:38,450 So we started talking a little bit about whether there's a mismatch between individual or institutional incentives for partnering. 177 00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:44,960 And I thought this was an interesting approach because it really carried forward across a lot of discussion 178 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,720 topics that we had and kind of set the tone for not just whether those incentives are in place for partnerships, 179 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,920 but also as a function of commercialisation. And so in thinking about that, 180 00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:02,240 we also recognise that often when we're trying to develop partnerships where there might be a bit of a commercialisation mindset, 181 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:08,000 sometimes the financial model doesn't always support the mechanisms to drive that one way or the other. 182 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,570 And part of what we discussed there as well was that, you know, 183 00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:16,130 the priorities of an institution might be different sometimes from the career motivations 184 00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:20,990 or the commercialisation motivations of individuals with those with research. 185 00:20:20,990 --> 00:20:30,200 And sometimes that can get out of sync relative to not being able to achieve a larger goal in total when those when those elements aren't aligned. 186 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:37,040 We also spoke about the function of different regional differences or differences by countries, perhaps, 187 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:47,750 and whether there's more of a focus in the US around partnering internally amongst different institutions within a particular country, 188 00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:53,450 or if there are incentives to go beyond that, to foster more international collaboration. 189 00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:59,900 And as we think about some of the grander challenges and that could be approached through multilateral research. 190 00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:05,240 Certainly, I think we would all aspire to more of that international collaboration approach. 191 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:16,070 But we recognise that perhaps in the US, our incentives are more to function within country and maybe less around international collaboration. 192 00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:24,290 But but it could be very different and probably is very different in the UK and EU relative to trying from that perspective, 193 00:21:24,290 --> 00:21:27,320 trying to have more international collaborations and the like. 194 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:35,330 So that brought up a great discussion around do we have the incentives to switch or do we need to switch or change our starting points? 195 00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:35,960 And in other words, 196 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:44,390 are we going to be disadvantaged by having that kind of mismatch of approach relative to how we can all work together to solve the bigger problems? 197 00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:49,700 We also had a really good debate around whether this is a common issue across all disciplines, 198 00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:56,180 or if perhaps we could solve some of this differently by choosing a discipline by which to drive. 199 00:21:56,180 --> 00:22:00,890 And some might target different partnerships. And a great example of that was through global health, 200 00:22:00,890 --> 00:22:11,540 where it's almost encouraged or required for all of us to to work across and maybe less around the boundaries or the pursuits that we've started with. 201 00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:16,280 We also talked about whether there could be local or regional incentives that could be developed as 202 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:22,580 starting points to help move beyond sometimes where the current path is to partnering and collaborating. 203 00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:31,550 And and I think that could be to be a good way to maybe incentivised overcoming some of the challenges as well. 204 00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:40,130 We also talked about the tensions within some universities not being set up to do commercialisation as a function of partnership and whether sometimes 205 00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:44,300 we should think about segmenting partnerships separately from commercialisation 206 00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:48,560 and perhaps not putting the burden of commercialisation on partnership, 207 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,180 which I think is is novel. 208 00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:58,640 But that's that was a part of our discussion around whether we were trying to in some ways when commercialisation is a factor. 209 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,020 Are we trying to make it university into a business or a business into a university? 210 00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:10,180 And how do we need to be more deliberate about that and our approach is trying to overcome sometimes? 211 00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:15,760 Existing headwinds or policies are good, we need to think about how to influence policies, 212 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,630 but also create added incentives to overcome this fundamental challenge that we 213 00:23:19,630 --> 00:23:26,470 started with around the mismatch and incentives that ultimately could be in place of, 214 00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:31,600 or sometimes challenging just the fundamental principle of how we partner best. 215 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,550 We move then from talking about challenges into opportunities to talk more 216 00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:41,230 specifically about how we could use partnerships to spur more institutional growth. 217 00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:46,300 And and I think in that respect, we're talking about institutional grew of that's a function of partnership, 218 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:54,340 more multimatic multilateral research to move towards greater accomplishments through that partnership. 219 00:23:54,340 --> 00:24:01,930 And part of that was around finding the right model to partner by learning from others and growing together and and 220 00:24:01,930 --> 00:24:09,490 continuing on versus continuing on the current path that we might be might be headed on and from the from up front. 221 00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:17,620 We also wanted to talk about where partnerships, how we could identify partnerships that are more diverse than just simply saying, 222 00:24:17,620 --> 00:24:22,210 how do we work together, potentially within different universities collaborations? 223 00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:27,460 But how could we incentivise universities, industry and government partnerships together, 224 00:24:27,460 --> 00:24:35,590 which I think we could all agree on is really the best approach. But how do we incentivise that broader collaboration as a stronger opportunity? 225 00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:42,130 And also, how do we overcome the inherent fear of commercialisation as a foundation for partnering Alisyn and 226 00:24:42,130 --> 00:24:46,210 make it a couple of comments that we've talked about as well that I'll just highlight here in closing, 227 00:24:46,210 --> 00:24:51,460 which was really around trying to understand how we move from transactional and 228 00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:56,380 somewhat incremental discussions when we're on a path which we believe to be correct. 229 00:24:56,380 --> 00:25:01,930 But how do we find more disruptive pathways to test, try and do something different to evolve? 230 00:25:01,930 --> 00:25:05,890 And then ultimately, how do we recognise the differences that are out there? 231 00:25:05,890 --> 00:25:11,890 Find ways across universities, industry and government to work together to recognise those differences, 232 00:25:11,890 --> 00:25:17,860 but then find the right partners and approach to truly move in a better direction going forward. 233 00:25:17,860 --> 00:25:22,330 So with that, I appreciate the opportunity for comment. Thank you. Excellent. 234 00:25:22,330 --> 00:25:30,040 Thank you, Mark. And thank you to all of the presenters for feeding back and giving us the rich insights from each of the groups. 235 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:40,180 And I'm struck and probably thinking. Thomas Koch looks, and he's got to have the joyous task of trying to bring all of this together. 236 00:25:40,180 --> 00:25:46,540 I think there is a lot of different themes that have just emerged, and I was trying to take a note of some of them, 237 00:25:46,540 --> 00:25:52,220 but I I would probably before I sort of try and surmise some of that. 238 00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:56,770 I do think a huge thank you from me to all of the groups and all of their kind 239 00:25:56,770 --> 00:26:04,840 of contributions in the group for doing exactly what I hoped you would do, which is to take those kind of opportunities and challenges. 240 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:13,660 And certainly and if Autoline and Roger was still here, I think we have given them lots of food for thought in terms of some of those things. 241 00:26:13,660 --> 00:26:18,380 I think I'm not going to try and recount all of the different things and summarise the summaries. 242 00:26:18,380 --> 00:26:24,700 But but I do think one of the things that I was struck by and thought would be the case today, 243 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:30,640 which is that clearly this is at a number of different levels that are a really interesting inflexion point. 244 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:38,860 There are technology advances and innovation advances that we are, you know, we are right in the middle of this case, 245 00:26:38,860 --> 00:26:46,690 and there's a real opportunity for the sector on all of it, all sides of the U.S. and the U.K. and across Europe. 246 00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:53,560 But I also think we do need to be mindful of the way that the systems and both sides are set up and in particular, 247 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,720 how we encourage collaboration because I'm certainly international partnerships, 248 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:07,180 because some of the some of the incentives in the system may be perverse incentives they may push against what we are trying to achieve. 249 00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:14,080 But I think one of the things that I was struck about and I'm going to hopefully seamlessly hope set up tomorrow is that on day one, 250 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:23,340 we've really got into the detail of how have we responded, how have we reacted to a global crisis and how have we? 251 00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:31,510 And I think the community, in its broadest sense, science, universities, government and industry have responded brilliantly to that. 252 00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:41,050 Today, I think we've talked about ambition and about how we genuinely become a science superpower is how we push all of the different levers together. 253 00:27:41,050 --> 00:27:45,310 But I think what's really interesting and a sort of recurring theme this morning is 254 00:27:45,310 --> 00:27:52,090 that what we do need to do is think about where are those next grand challenges? 255 00:27:52,090 --> 00:27:56,630 And that kind of gets to this kind of question of why international partnerships are important. 256 00:27:56,630 --> 00:28:01,210 And it feels to me that one of the recurring themes is about not just achieving scale, 257 00:28:01,210 --> 00:28:09,790 but also achieving breadth to which to to attack all these grand challenges, we need probably a much greater sum of the parts to come. 258 00:28:09,790 --> 00:28:16,300 Together and have that kind of combined strength, and that hopefully sets up tomorrow because I think what we are going to look at tomorrow. 259 00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:20,410 We've got a fantastic programme ahead of us is that transitioning to a sustainable future, 260 00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:28,240 but thinking about how you get the best of universities and industry working together to tackle something that, 261 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:35,860 as you know, a societies across the globe we can we do need to think through and make sure 262 00:28:35,860 --> 00:28:42,610 that we are working together to look after our planet for generations to come. 263 00:28:42,610 --> 00:28:54,549 And I think certainly there will be rich debate and discussion on a very pertinent and topical discussion.