Welcome everyone to this evening's public seminar.
I'm Diane Black in the Department of Education, and it's my absolute pleasure to introduce to you today.
John Bell, who I know is not a stranger to many of us, still do an introduction just to remind us.
So John Furlong OBE is an emeritus professor of education at the University of Oxford.
He was head of the Department of Education here from 2003 to 2009.
A former president of the British Educational Research Association for Europe
is currently chair of the Teacher Education and Training Presentation Board.
His full education and a remedy of discipline was awarded first prise by the
British Society for Educational Studies for the best educational research in 2015.
His most recent book, Knowledge in the Study of Education and Nutrition Exploration, was published in 2002.
Typekit John was awarded OBE for services to research and education, also in 2017.
So thank you so much, John. We're really looking forward to a talk about reform.
For in culture. Thank you. OK. You can do this even with the stuff at work.
OK, well, the title is making you want to.
I want to come in and do this tour, so I should say.
Thank you very much indeed for this year.
OK, Chris, I am going to end.
This is the image of Wales with mountains and with castles and the beautiful beaches where I've known for 45 years before it actually is.
Those is reality that lends. It's a small country and it's a bi lingual country.
It's a country with very severe levels of poverty. One in three kids in our schools, they're living in poverty.
About 15 percent of. It is quite.
This is where a major player on the team actually comes, first minister and director of the London until 15 36, from 15 26 onwards until 1999.
That's really important in their minds of 500 years of being managed by man to decide to seek another term
for trying to find a new way for its own personal system to for 500 primary schools from secondary schools.
And certainly when he's been occupying people's minds in Wales in the last few years is the fact that he's the result is a very particularly for sure.
Interesting picture achievers in ways you can analyse in those ways,
you can compare achievement of kids from certain circumstances backgrounds
with similar areas such as new housing society a therefore exactly the same.
When you look at the rest of us this achievement. You compare that with something that just just the same.
However, it's not to say that overall there is a serious issue between achievement.
And this came up last year.
Education, it was a national mission, means it's about Wales for the first time, standing up and finding its own voice for the first 15 years or so.
Devolution, with two important exceptions, most of policy for those third funding left over from the EU.
And in the last few years, there's been a growing appetite to do something different to actually start to find a different conception
of what it means to be a different vision of what it looks to be a vision that puts the children a child,
the love at the centre of what education is about, rather than the food the system of the.
What the government realised if it wants to achieve it for a budget of reform. But you can't just do one thing at a time.
Is actually systemic change going on across the board of education in a whole variety of different sorts of ways.
So we took about 350 changes, but so too is assessment.
So too is the management leadership, the schools in this country together.
So too is the research agenda.
Research capacity, and so too is professional education and teacher education that all recognise if you can change one thing, change over.
Today was a day where did you shoot whales, who's given more warning, particularly for the kids, but also for people who work in?
OK, so one of the things that's first is to educate our national mission it's firstly talked
about is the need to work with professionals if you're going to raise standards,
and it's also attracting the best candidates of investigations into education over their continued support over time.
In this country, there are two kind of pressures for reform of initiatives.
Education was one of them is the fact that these of supporting reputation for the quality of what it was doing.
So you have been around in Washington for a while and never,
ever gave us a head of the driven agency in London in the early to mid 2000s was asked by some Republicans in 2014,
he said, What is the quality of what's happening? Well, this is the importance of conflicts in education.
What else is adequate, but no better? And that judgement is not solely from the funding, the estimate inspectorate.
This is simply socialisation by the providers themselves.
They think what they're doing is only adequate best as well as governments are able to stay focussed.
And that really was every single.
The three major centres of teacher education, wealth creation coverage in the cities and in the last five or six years,
each one of those three centres has been equivalent to what school would be special measures for the student.
And and they've got themselves out of that after struggling mainly around failing in terms of the leadership in the system.
If this had been in the night, my guess is that before this moment have been closure,
then how would you 370 miles and think the city was an issue about the quality of what's been done?
Well, years in huge quantities.
But the other impact of change is not a negative one is a positive one to do with all the other sorts of changes that are going on in Wales.
But none of these things you work here, which wasn't the system wasn't working in the of civilians to be successful.
Talk about broader changes. This is an exciting time for the young people of Wales.
A new curriculum for Wales is coming to introduce learners from three to 16, giving them the foundations they need to succeed in the changing world.
The curriculum is changing to help young people become more adaptable and motivated to keep learning new skills
as life and the world changes around them exactly the capabilities that employers say they want to see.
Two campuses will be at its heart at the badges in the life of schools.
These are the aspirations of children and young people should be ambitious.
Capabilities will be ready to lead throughout their lives, but sets high standards for themselves.
Enjoy research and problem-solving, interprets and evaluate data,
use digital technologies and to provide entry to country because we're ready to play a full part and listen to it.
In fact, think creatively grasp opportunities, lead and play roles in teams, express ideas and versions.
Healthy, confident individuals who are ready to lead fulfilling lives as valued members of society.
Let's establish secure values. Spiritual and ethical beliefs understands mental, physical and emotional wellbeing.
Overcome challenges live life independently ethical informs since we're ready to be 16,
some friends underwent that engage with contemporary issues, respect the needs of others, connect to planet sustainability.
Consider the impact of their actions. This will also underpin new assessment arrangements.
What else will change? What competence will be added to the curriculum?
It will join literacy and numeracy as one of the foundations for success in learning and life.
The new curriculum will also encourage creative connected learning based on six areas of learning and experience excellence in health and wellbeing.
Humanities, languages, literacy and communication. Mathematics and numeracy, science and technology.
It will be broad, balanced, inclusive and challenging, giving a wide range of experiences and opportunities.
It has been widely welcomed by education professionals with an interest in the future of young people.
What happens next? Schools across Wales, a virtual education stakeholders and experts,
developed the new curriculum at London time to support teachers and teachers believed to be successful.
The ambition is the new curriculum will be available by the summer to 2019 and use for 2022.
The Digital Competence Framework was the first element of the new curriculum to be introduced in September 2016.
Find more information on what the curriculum reforms will mean to you at W W W Dot Gov Wales forward slash curriculum for Wales Mr.
A radical wholesale change to what education is about.
It really comes, at least for purposes. Education is not to be just simply about academic achievement,
but it's clearly they believe it because a whole range of different other sorts of aspirations.
A much broader conception, which effectively means all of which have to be built into every single person who into the programme and all the time.
This is really going to change the mindset of what the teacher learns about in schools.
And that's really very radical, also very radical Islamic conduct that is very, very important, to be sure.
The reference to pioneer schools, the way in which the new curriculum has been developed and its provisions.
Two weeks ago, the first version of the consultation. What is the mood?
There's been groups of schools that have significant levels of expertise in different sorts of teaching.
To the first one develop was the different companies. Remember what they did.
That was they brought 20 schools together to really, really good attention to it, but it didn't work.
Then they gave them a budget again in the researchers system, and they gave administrative staff the commission papers.
Given expert. And it was up to them to develop the national framework for different countries.
It's a bottom up approach with access to forms of expertise.
But that is the model now being used across the whole curriculum, across the whole six areas of learning experience.
What they've done in terms of developing a framework that National Framework were six areas they then worked on.
What matters? Things are looking at language literacy.
What matters? What are the key things that matter at different pages of a charter?
But here is the critical, critically different in how to do it. There's no new group of experts sitting in an office somewhere defining a curriculum,
essentially something that's been developed collaboratively across the system in ways.
But also very critical is how it's changing in terms of what it is.
Because what is the national framework we've seen as a one party statement?
Because after schools, schools have to develop different curriculum for themselves, they will not pick them, they will not be given any answers.
They have to live with that for themselves and to work amongst themselves to develop open Typekit framework in maths and science,
or a framework in humanities or arts that actually is right for their kids.
That uses the National Framework that uses all these statements.
But does that? Now, as you can see, what this is doing is actually transforming production restrictions,
which are quite different from what it means to be professional in dealing in many.
We do need teachers and people developing a curriculum,
and we talked about this as this system is also absolutely critically important in large parts of the world to be developed as well.
They've got great things about their children and they've got to be as professionals, independent minded people, practitioners.
So this is carrying a huge amount of pressure.
Learning that they themselves have to do to keep up with what's been expected of them really is so revolutionary in some statement.
So as you can see, that clearly has massive implications for professional learning, for continuing professional development,
for the existing teaching workforce and also for initial teacher education as well.
We need a different profession. So there are negative pressures because the system, I think, was pretty grim.
Those are very positive pressures as well as actually trying to do something different.
And in 2013, I was asked by the Minister of Education, the ministry education facilities to work with colleagues,
as well as just trying to think about how we can actually improve the quality of what happens here.
And I looked around and started to ask myself, if you want to change the system, what are the levers of power that you've got?
Clearly, the standards that teachers have to achieve at the end of their lives and training for one of the levers of power as the dictation system,
the about their inspection frameworks and investment in research?
Well, what was clear was whatever one given you're looking for the levers of power that you would need to have an impossibility of subsidiarity.
You've actually got to get the school system higher education system on board with those innovations that you want to do.
You have to have space for people to have energy in what you're trying to achieve.
But I won't be talking today about the accreditation criteria because that's something that I'm involved
in since I published this report in 2015 and then I failed to work on the indications framework.
So we have I spent two years with colleagues trying to get this new accreditation framework.
There wasn't the accreditation process for teacher education.
It is very, very light touch indeed, as well as infections pretty much touch the public part of the system started to drift.
Well, it looks a country that accreditation system. Something is very difficult to try and track you here.
We've tried to embed in it a vision for how to teach us the right at the centre.
Not a most confession. I've never seen any other agencies around the world.
The staff from then start to look to the student teacher, take the money from two different.
And that vision, which is the first part of those criteria,
talks about different things and then talked about money, which is primarily primarily practical.
So until you stand in front of a group of kids, you don't know what that means, but how much you study that in the targeted seminar room.
This week, I micro teaching. It's not simply an understanding that doing it.
You've also got a new teacher.
Look to find the person inside yourself, who is the teacher who voted for him and the kind of you go to one of the practical programmes.
But the other extreme is the teacher education programme. There are things that are primarily positive, primarily intellectual.
So drawing on research and theory, the sorts of things. So, for example, student teachers do something about how to improve their learning.
We need to know something about one of the principals in the system and how a system works.
But is there something about the social context in which the schools are placed and the history of policy
developments has been that there are intellectual things to develop new teachers that they need to take hold of?
But our vision for the most important, the largest part of the peace the teacher education programme is those topics.
The custom curriculum becomes the systems because it's critical to you that are rigorously practical but intellectually challenging at the same time.
And that's the largest part of the teachers should proved to be.
So that vision was there right at the centre of accreditation criteria.
What we expect is the new courses that embrace these.
OK, where do these ideas come from?
Well, they mostly come from 30 or more in most cases, research and a lot of research has gone on in this department as well.
And I sort of shape this in terms of three fundamental questions from that body of research.
And the first one is what skills and knowledge can only be learnt through direct experience and schools?
Well, when it comes to these sort of intellectual baggage, you are really with me.
You answering that back to the question of enlightenment for this fiscal year.
This initial teacher training room school that was a research project first,
particularly in this area of study in the early eighties and the London government funded what it called for
innovative school based teacher education programmes and own team in Cambridge were involved in evaluating them.
And what? We can't lose this kind of notion, which had some straight sort of looks of weakness.
We could see fit for different levels of training and we could see student teachers actually learning on the job in the context of a school.
And then we can see universities doing a range of different things. Sometimes they're working on the principles behind that.
So they were looking at the evidence that you hear the research evidence and looking at what works for elsewhere.
We are the principles behind the students learning in school. Sometimes they were they were actually providing solutions in what we call
level them being is that they were actually giving students more experience,
but a kind of Typekit of context here, because that really is the very practical what they're trying to achieve.
Then they would also be involved in trying to develop an understanding of the principles that what's the evidence?
This approach works to approach the fact because that works the level that theory says that they what they should be doing.
Well, we saw them doing something just flew in from psychology.
The first week was hard questions about teaching and learning.
So you see all those different sort of levels, the use, the phrase, you use, the idea, it was very appropriate.
But it was the first time that I think there was a recognition in the literature that what it was was going on in school in terms of student tuition
pressure learning was a very different character to what was going on in universities could be for those people rather than Swansea University,
for sure, later starting to look at how mentors work and how do they contribute as to the future to.
And that was kind of just, you know, the example from. So here locally,
I don't have this and going back in time and learning teaching from teachers really
trying to get a sense of how student teachers have their own developmental needs,
how they got to unlearn huge amounts of stuff. I mean, what do you mean by sitting in a classroom?
Is the kid thinking they understand what teaching is about recognising and recognising that actually being able to observe?
We often start with the teacher education programme is to get student teachers observing other teachers, actually learning how to observe.
Actually able to see what the expertise is is a real skill in itself and something to be achieved.
We can be assumed. And also, there's all sorts of student teacher needs of fitting in being a big part of a community which we find very powerful.
There's a whole lot of learning there in these sorts of things,
really trying to take seriously the school as a context for learning the art and craft of the teacher.
My second question is how do you make the best place to contribute?
What I found in the 1990s was that the hostility of the English government's university contribution is not history,
so this reflects the 19th early and by thirty five or thirty six.
I wanted to pose the question really well. Does hosting have any role to if it is,
if it is so important that students develop their work in the context of a school where on Earth that they have university potential?
So put together this book, really? My colleague Richard Smith from Durham, my confusion, which is I know Richard had home.
So this was to look at the nature of the institution and to argue that universities were not the same type of institutions.
Look, they had some essential features that were different,
the different around privacy or Facebook is around the contestability of Orange when you are in a similar room.
You have to argue your point. You have to present your evidence.
You have to make a reasoned case for what is happening. This discipline is not just in those.
It's easily imposed on academics and with their ideas, and they must be brought forward be evidenced.
They need to be taking part in public debate. You need to be publishing ideas and communities.
All the strengths of what schools contribute, which is very much to do with the complexity of a particular political group,
particularly with the kids in this group in this country. That's a very, very different sort of context.
If universities have anything to offer, it comes out.
Argue, then, of the essential nature of what they are. The centrality of the fittest.
The most, you know in some way to the teacher education programme.
Who would it be if I was doing some work? I was here in the early 2010s and trying to look at knowledge across the whole
whole of the education disciplines and looking forward to looking at it,
not just in terms of teacher education, but in terms of research and most importantly, consultancy researches and valuing.
That is really important in all of this that we're doing to teacher education for university
faculties to open themselves up to the world of practise in a way that much more.
That actually and in this book with Jeffrey Dean, I think it's the last thing Jeffrey was involved in before his son died,
most of those in this country, which is what we're trying to do then,
was to look at different intellectual traditions and thinking about education,
using seven different countries as examples and trying to understand that there are a range of different academic discourses about thinking about it.
We should make it easier for the new science and education with three different disciplinary theory.
And there's a whole other bunch of ways of talking about education, which is very practically based.
So the whole the whole conception of the teacher's knowledge is the obvious example.
Another one is the competency movement is a very, very strongly grounded, practical approaches to talking about education.
And there are symbols of education to schools which are actually trying to bring the two together.
To the most obvious, one would be things that actually separate people trying to engage with both academic
and practical issues at the same time and freedom to engage them with each other.
There are other approaches which we call engineering model, where a group of researchers are trying to develop a new initiative,
a new way of teaching, but testing it out in school and going back and revising it from this year in school.
And they're trying to bring together the different dimensions of issues.
So we try to put these different knowledge structures in education,
and that's also been so Typekit constantly trying to work out for myself, some irritation.
I have my intellectual irritation about what is it that universities do?
What are they got to contribute? So that's a good question for a few of.
We will ask questions frequently and try to remember if I to keep the U.S. president has this book.
I did it in 2000 with colleagues, and it could move the teacher education project to improve teacher education.
For the transition from that,
one looked at how teacher education was changing across the country as the government tried to insist schools and schools.
Knowledge of what we discover is that actually climate change is all a cool partnership.
But actually, the vast majority of teacher education programmes were still higher education made by other things.
They were universally people concerned. It was sort of theory and practise which will tell you what the answers are.
You going to do it even in school?
The vast majority of courses were just that. Not much has changed between a few courses that we said were.
But the universities really stood back and just gave the money for schools in all divisions.
But you might have noticed the direction that you could see the consequences of that being very practical.
But it was very difficult to encourage people to reflect on families and to debate what I would consider.
And then there were very few. There were programmes in which the human studies was one where there was a genuine
recognition that there was both closure and schools and different things to contribute.
I mean, worked in the tradition that is of because what really came out came good.
The control for this bill through the internship scheme, integration of partnership in Teacher Education Prevention,
the classic book, which was talking about the establishment of the internship scheme in particular with the Macintosh there.
So figure out a different way of working. Very, very important stuff. More recently,
those who worked with the Treasury Richard Fisher Research Association I was not looking at the way in
which research informs teacher education from the sorts of a number of different sorts of papers in there.
The one that I take up, mostly because it's been very, very influential, is one by government and Jim Martin,
which is looking at what they now call research for ActionScript, where student teachers, if they look at this kind of thing that they and say, Well,
how is the other programmes around the world about mobility, those to look at the Netherlands, they look at the American and some American systems,
you know, to actually see what it is that works and an individual programme of the national administration instead.
And the last one of the many books here, I think I could illustrate for you things are going on, but this is the most interesting recent one book,
and you could buy two at a time in medicine here, looking at others,
a whole bunch of you and looking at two contrasting programmes and how to treat each of them looking at internship programme.
The Michigan State University model as well, which came out of the Koch Group, work in the 1980s, again arguing for a much.
The relationship between university schools and that programme is one of the first
induction who is not the first person in Cambridge and this is how he used to do things.
First, he put in Cambridge in 1981 and then used because he was coming back to work.
And then I was sent to Michigan State University to it with Shulman and Levy a police.
And we were conceptualising this whole different way of working closely with schools, and that's a really, really good introduction for me, which.
So there is there's many, many more pieces, but the crew talked about this is just a few of them to illustrate these three very
fundamental questions that I thought would be kind of foolish implicitly in approaching this.
So if it's saying those are all ideas,
there is a vision for teaching vision for an early Christian teacher that he has to be high in what the programme has to do to take that so seriously.
You have to take seriously that there is an agenda which is school based.
There is somebody distinct university is going to be. We have to think about how we develop programmes to bring them together.
Then what are the implications of that?
But we believe that these new accreditation criteria and schools clearly are going to take this stuff seriously after the resources at the time,
which we've taken years of thinking they have to change their culture.
So the initial teacher education is seen as something to significantly do that may be taken for granted in schools around books,
which is absolutely not the case in the United Kingdom.
It's actually still some, particularly so because I believe in many other still not seen as a central control
to actually choose a school that would change of culture under the of the rules,
and the students were a huge, different influence. This is a challenge and has been a challenge.
What does it mean for universities? It means that your work, how Earth can do your work out, what is their essential contribution?
They can do to make a difference and was an isolated incident.
It is a this an even bigger surge of school directed.
If those kids can do so many schools, a particular responsibility.
What on earth is it that universities can contribute? Our own criteria is that they have to make available knowledge is not always available.
We can't guarantee that every single student from research, from theory to move back is across Wales of its information is what's going to happen.
Then the teacher colleges in Wales and many in England in a different staffing structure.
So much of the staffing for frontline teacher education has become casualised part time staff and people, not part of the economy.
Seriously too. Absolutely the case of management systems, but they also need to have the staffing,
the policies in place so they can get the staff they've got who come from school out that privilege to actually contribute something to the school.
Culture will take part in that we take it for granted in this place.
It's really not. It's really not the case in so many teacher education institutions.
The people in higher education see that is not their primary contribution and see that taking
part in this already culture is the core part of what it means to be a university student.
But it's a huge challenge to us in this country, which which is what they have to do.
They also have to find ways of bringing these together, at least partially subsidiarity,
because we left it to different institutions to think creatively about how they would bring together universities and schools to a greater extent.
So some of them are working, obviously very often working with forms of action research.
Others are doing this and study others doing teaching rounds of different sorts.
There's a range of different structures that we can use to make sure that built into a programme,
how these spaces where student teachers can engage with both what they're doing and yesterday and today and tomorrow,
and with the sort of the university degree.
And that means bringing in university staff into schools with an altercation that's years of working to preparing sessions to.
You know, John Kennedy, the whole programme, we've actually insisted that through those actually compelling schools that you would
have an underlying is the structures are detailed in the content business at the moment,
the left or the teacher education institutions that have been accredited for the next year.
How busy you are very well in developing the new content, but doing it in a way that actually makes sure that the school teachers are fully,
uniquely part of the government programmes doing it together. And they will find this stuff about how you do this for years to come.
Giving the power away from universities isn't unusual.
And she's saying that we can't do this on our own. Can't just put out the drawer that we did last year and say that you can have this.
Do you go from fixing stretching the universe in the moment to shutting those jurors,
sitting down people from schools and saying it's going to change?
We have to devise in detail what our programme is going to look like an acceptable to students.
So it's a big, big challenge for you. Easily one change, schools have got to accept that they're joining a competent quarterback.
That's a massive one, even when forms of partnership work.
I would contest that many schools don't actually see it as their responsibility to be accountable for the quality of what they do,
accountable to the governance, accountability, inspectorate accountability, the investment opportunity.
But if this is going to work, then schools have to accept accountability.
And universities have to accept that they are jointly accountable as well.
They have to be giving some accountability. And that's a big change in culture for schools.
Resource for change in culture, computerised is a very, very, very challenging.
That's your work unless you're teaching the inspector.
Estimates produces, it's sort of equivalent to Ofsted, but it's probably I think it's of because it's a smaller sector,
smaller system and people nearly always know each other, at least at one stage if they're not related to them.
And so he's been less confrontational. But but he has the same as you said because you choose her position and it's still a very, very powerful body.
And one of the things that one of my other babies were found in was to make sure that estimate is.
But when he was inspecting schools, if the schools did take this seriously, that has to.
Their role in teacher education has been written into school inspection framework so that that should be appreciated and understood.
This is a big change for them. And also, they're expecting a different teacher education, but they're working from the same intellectual move.
This is the accreditation criteria. They've got the same understanding of what professional learning is and how it works and how it was.
And that's what they've been working on in the last 18 months,
consistently with the sector over the last stage of their new inspection framework that will everybody seemed to be saying,
take a look at the same assumptions. No, no, you do that research stuff.
I was bringing to this debate, then that message.
But they've taken on board an understanding of the principles of instruction from which they move in the direction.
So that's what we've got to.
And I said what happened was the public here were initially published without consultation and then enshrined in legislation.
Then the accreditation board was set up within the Teacher Education Workforce Council.
So different groups were chosen because of the Teacher Council Accreditation Board,
which I've been chairing and the providers who wanted to carry on and education and equally make the decision in the first round six institutions.
One was a public school universalist, six applied and reform passed.
Two were refused for all those that were accepted before they were accepted and had a long list of conditions this academic year would be getting back
to see how they're actually working towards this conditions that we really
feel that the embedding principles they really understood really understood.
Making them workable compared to the big sticking point was actually not really what movement, but putting students on.
How can really, really find it very hard to say why no one has done that.
But when you have a curriculum, you think about how people learn that you can very different view across anyway.
So those four out of the second round and they're addressing their needs to in
the autumn with two that could go past and the first to be applied to very,
very different programmes. One has got to be successful in the other one.
I'm not going tomorrow to do their assessment, conceivably the progress.
So we're not frightened, but say no. That's been kind of a difficult journey for everybody.
But it's important, I think, that we've got a vision and the vision of how that vision and it's a very different sort of vision.
It means working in very different ways. Okay, so this will make you change happen then.
So I call this they can change. The story here is kind of happenstance of life to live in the country.
For those working in the cottage, I was doing a presentation to the Minister of Education Reform the RSA.
Very important. And he said, Well, why don't you come here and stick around?
I'm actually going to write a report on teacher education, I said.
He said, no, not really much, because you'll have to do. But I would like you to stay around, try and make change happen.
So I was able to bring in a few of those levers of power to work on those to bring all of that research.
Many of us in this room were entirely familiar with and bring that with me into trying to lead new to these new criteria,
which I thought would probably potentially the most powerful way for making a national system change.
And of course, having the government on side made the justice system change to actually pass
the legislation to establish a new accreditation procedure to pay for that.
And that's actually pretty much been done over this good ActionScript. So that's really the story.
It's a bit of a happenstance and this is the tabulation we're doing for six years now, and it's been quite.
But there's no way of thinking about that question. How can change happen? Just to conclude?
Do we stand back and look at what's been going on? We can actually see something.
But profound change in the English model of making change happen is about competition for the Constitution,
because it sounds like it who say the Global Education Reform Group, which was did to instead.
You can see that in teacher education in the way the idea is that the system would improve.
We have lots of competition for different varieties of so of different things.
Thousands of military families in different countries, including each education, different ways.
You put this heavy performance or management performance, the heavy emphasis on performance.
You measure it in in accounting terms, in economic terms.
And you try to make sure that everyone competes in that to compete in the performance for their outcomes.
And then you make them people accountable for their performance. What that does is always narrow the conception.
We measure things, it narrow what it is you're trying to do, which is something very, I would argue, very complex.
But if you try to develop you, teacher, that's the mood. It's kind of I think it is a kind of real distortion of the school in this approach.
School officials eventually recognise it should develop data and evidence around what is effective and what many governments have done.
Take taken the idea of measurement often dominated by Congress. Through this,
the one of the by economists who actually take those measurements and then
run it into a system based on competition for performance and accountability.
And that's an English word for changing not just keeps education for the whole of education.
And many public sector will be really very, very different in both instances, even if way of changing or trying to achieve.
I think he's much more of a humanist approach is trying to say that we have to invest in people why we should be trying to do in
developing new forms of teacher education just to be better teachers who themselves are intellectual actors in the profession.
That's what we what we're trying to achieve. But it's also saying that's how we got the true process of change as well.
But you got to make sure the schools or universities have the intellectual tools to do that work for themselves.
And that's where the subsidiarity comes. All the push we've had in the criteria.
Huge amounts of space underneath that for individual universities in the local schools to develop that in a way that's right for them.
That's about doing it.
Yeah, it seems to me it's a very, very different notion of what educational change is making changes, but very, very profoundly different.
Yeah, that's really the movie information that.
Thanks so much and not use my shoes.