1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:09,560 J. R. Tolkien a great writer that inspires 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:14,940 many of us. If you were listening to this podcast, I suppose 3 00:00:14,940 --> 00:00:19,950 it's because, like me, you feel fascinated by The Hobbit and 4 00:00:19,950 --> 00:00:26,150 the Lord of the Rings, which are amongst the best known literary works of the 20th century. 5 00:00:26,150 --> 00:00:31,280 You may also know that talking was not only an author of high fantasy 6 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:36,500 literature, he was so, so a critic and scholar of mediaeval 7 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:41,570 literature. I would say that many of the characteristics of 8 00:00:41,570 --> 00:00:47,480 the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit that make us love those works are elaboration 9 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:54,540 or developments or features that talking learnt from mediaeval authors. 10 00:00:54,540 --> 00:01:00,570 In this brief podcast, I will be focussing on one such feature. 11 00:01:00,570 --> 00:01:05,690 Representations of evil. 12 00:01:05,690 --> 00:01:12,370 Perhaps like me, you always found talking as monsters to be memorable. 13 00:01:12,370 --> 00:01:19,220 The round of Moldea. On the terrible smog, the golden. 14 00:01:19,220 --> 00:01:25,350 Their words in the Lord of the Rings, dragline uncut ahead of endorsee Marillion, 15 00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:30,920 England. And the root of evil spiders. These are all remarkable 16 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,120 characters and creatures. And I am sure that most of us would agree that without 17 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:41,480 them talking as novels will not be the same, without them talking, 18 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,640 talkings novels would not be as significant as they are. 19 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,770 Tolkien's work is so popular and so well known and his style of fantasy has 20 00:01:51,770 --> 00:01:57,020 become so influential that we may be tempted to think or we might be 21 00:01:57,020 --> 00:02:02,450 tempted to believe that the way talking portrayed his monsters 22 00:02:02,450 --> 00:02:07,550 is the only way they could have been portrayed. Well, this is 23 00:02:07,550 --> 00:02:14,130 actually not the case. Talkings monsters have one special characteristic in common. 24 00:02:14,130 --> 00:02:19,390 And that characteristic, that quality talking learnt 25 00:02:19,390 --> 00:02:26,270 from Bill. In these podcasts, I will explain what qualities that makes. 26 00:02:26,270 --> 00:02:31,340 Talkings monster so memorable. And that talking lane from Babel. But before that, I will 27 00:02:31,340 --> 00:02:36,470 explain. I will need to explain briefly. Good Bill Willis' on how talking 28 00:02:36,470 --> 00:02:41,740 understood it. Where they will was an old English poem composed 29 00:02:41,740 --> 00:02:46,760 in the eighth century, around the year 700. That 30 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:53,260 is many, many years ago. And yet this boy and bear will remain fascinating 31 00:02:53,260 --> 00:02:58,550 and powerful in many ways. The main story that he tells 32 00:02:58,550 --> 00:03:05,050 is very simple. Around 200 years in the sixth century, 33 00:03:05,050 --> 00:03:11,190 king of Denmark beginning a very successful, a military, three very successful military and political leader. 34 00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:16,750 And in order to celebrate his success, he commanded a whole be built 35 00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:22,340 where his people partied and celebrated the glory of Denmark. Every night. 36 00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:28,230 Their happiness and their prosperity became famous. But one day, 37 00:03:28,230 --> 00:03:33,240 their fortunes changed. A monster, a powerful troll 38 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,440 called Grendell. Who was envious of their happiness decided 39 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,750 to put an end to that, an attack on every night during many years, Grendel 40 00:03:43,750 --> 00:03:49,230 attacked the whole of the Danes and killed many of them. Spreading panic. 41 00:03:49,230 --> 00:03:54,280 I'm bringing the Danes bleach to an end. Cronkite's misfortune became 42 00:03:54,280 --> 00:04:00,370 well known, and it goes of shame and lamentation until 43 00:04:00,370 --> 00:04:06,610 a young man in neighbouring Sweden across the sea heard about the Danes problems. 44 00:04:06,610 --> 00:04:11,670 The young man, as you probably have guessed. Was Balewa. 45 00:04:11,670 --> 00:04:16,880 A remarkably strong human. Who decided to kill Kröger, 46 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:23,100 travelled to Denmark and kill the troll Grendell with his bare hands. 47 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:28,620 The troll, unfortunately, had a mother who, as you can imagine, was not very happy about having lost 48 00:04:28,620 --> 00:04:33,990 her son, Grendel's mother attacks in retaliation 49 00:04:33,990 --> 00:04:39,160 and kills one of the Danish Kings most trusted counsellors. So 50 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:44,540 I've got to thinking, is one more troubled by the new monster attack? 51 00:04:44,540 --> 00:04:49,650 But they will say, hey, from there, no worries. I'll take care of these new moms there 52 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:55,490 as well. And they will goes to court and those mothers, Mia 53 00:04:55,490 --> 00:05:01,270 and Kilcher, are there to the Danes, as you can imagine, are all very happy again. 54 00:05:01,270 --> 00:05:07,810 They will troubles back home across the sea and 50 years pass. 55 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:13,180 After all these years, they will have become king of his people. The gates in southern 56 00:05:13,180 --> 00:05:18,410 Sweden. A dragon, then a taxpayer, Will Scheinblum. 57 00:05:18,410 --> 00:05:23,410 And they will. The famous Munster's land goes to the Dragon Slayer to 58 00:05:23,410 --> 00:05:28,900 kill it. And even though he manages to kill the dragon, the dragon 59 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:35,050 also manages to kill Beowulf. 60 00:05:35,050 --> 00:05:40,270 That is, of course, much more today, will then yes, this. But what I just said captures 61 00:05:40,270 --> 00:05:45,360 the fundamentals of the main story. The trolls 62 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,370 Granda, I'm his mother, are creatures of northern folklore. 63 00:05:50,370 --> 00:05:55,370 And this is reflected in the tens or in the words. That the characters 64 00:05:55,370 --> 00:06:01,610 in the story, like their will and croggon used to refer to then. 65 00:06:01,610 --> 00:06:07,090 Elgon. Giant. Feuilles. 66 00:06:07,090 --> 00:06:13,010 Troll. Philo. Monastir. 67 00:06:13,010 --> 00:06:18,330 Sugar, now Spectre's. These 68 00:06:18,330 --> 00:06:24,330 are some of the words in the beautiful old English language that indicate, without a doubt, 69 00:06:24,330 --> 00:06:29,490 that the antagonists in the poem are to be identified with 70 00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:34,530 the monsters of Scandinavian tales and legends. What 71 00:06:34,530 --> 00:06:40,810 is interesting is that the writer of the point, unlike the characters, 72 00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:46,630 uses completely different words to refer to these monsters. 73 00:06:46,630 --> 00:06:51,890 Some of these words that the narrator uses are bailable, 74 00:06:51,890 --> 00:06:57,020 which means the devil or demon. Harbin, which 75 00:06:57,020 --> 00:07:02,710 means he even. Hospital, which means 76 00:07:02,710 --> 00:07:08,140 captive's of hill and ruiner. Those who know 77 00:07:08,140 --> 00:07:13,370 the secret of Hill. As you can see, these are obviously 78 00:07:13,370 --> 00:07:18,620 Christian tones. Moreover, the narrator 79 00:07:18,620 --> 00:07:24,080 also tells us that the monsters, these trolls of northern folklore, 80 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,140 are the descendants of Cain, the biblical character who killed Abel, and they 81 00:07:29,140 --> 00:07:35,600 are also, according to the narrator, God is uncertain. The enemies are gone. 82 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,870 So basically, as you can see, there is a mixture or a blending. 83 00:07:40,870 --> 00:07:46,180 Of Northern folklore and Christian theology, a V. Representation 84 00:07:46,180 --> 00:07:51,720 of evil in Bill. The antagonists are both Scandinavian 85 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:58,460 POWs and Christian Devils. At the same time. 86 00:07:58,460 --> 00:08:03,530 Endure critics thought this a weakness of the point. The 8th century, although 87 00:08:03,530 --> 00:08:09,800 they complained, was unable to distinguish pagan myth and fantasy 88 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:16,940 from serious, sober Christian theology. But talking disagreed. 89 00:08:16,940 --> 00:08:22,770 In a famous lecture that he gave in 1936, Bayer was the monsters and the critics 90 00:08:22,770 --> 00:08:28,320 talking said that this connexion between the Masters and Christianity 91 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,330 was not a confusion or, to put it in his own words, an 92 00:08:33,330 --> 00:08:38,730 inexplicable blunder of taste. Rather, he argued 93 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:44,910 that the monster's association with Christian Demons in the poem is an artistic, 94 00:08:44,910 --> 00:08:50,010 brilliant, functional and very intelligent combination 95 00:08:50,010 --> 00:08:55,190 that makes Bainwol work as poetry. But 96 00:08:55,190 --> 00:09:00,250 how? We're talking says is 97 00:09:00,250 --> 00:09:05,260 that if the monsters had been purely spiritual, if they had 98 00:09:05,260 --> 00:09:10,570 been only the demons of Christianity, then the porn 99 00:09:10,570 --> 00:09:15,880 would read as a religious allegory or a homily, and it would not therefore 100 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,900 be as exciting, as powerful. 101 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:25,990 To put in his own words, and I quote. He debate 102 00:09:25,990 --> 00:09:31,100 with point was still dealing with a great temporal tragedy and not 103 00:09:31,100 --> 00:09:36,200 yet writing an allegorical homily in verse. Groundling, 104 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,210 how it's the visible world and it's the flesh and blood of men. He 105 00:09:41,210 --> 00:09:46,530 enters their houses by the doors. The dragon wheels, the physical fire 106 00:09:46,530 --> 00:09:52,900 and gold, not Sobel's, he slain with iron in his belly. 107 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:58,160 End of quote. So basically, we're talking here saying 108 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,420 is a bail, well, he's not. Spencer's fairy queen 109 00:10:03,420 --> 00:10:08,480 in Babel. The antagonists, because of 110 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:13,610 their physicality. Precisely because of their material, the nation posed 111 00:10:13,610 --> 00:10:18,920 a real threat to the character of physical integrity. And this material, 112 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:24,170 the nation which is contributed by northern folklore, makes the point 113 00:10:24,170 --> 00:10:30,010 more thrilling, more stimulating. I'm not a mere Homi. 114 00:10:30,010 --> 00:10:35,770 At the same time, however, in order for the point to be meaningful, 115 00:10:35,770 --> 00:10:41,080 to have symbolic power, the monsters up to her 116 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,400 spiritual dimension attached to them. Imagine 117 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:52,400 that Bay will have fought against an irrational animal like a battery, Wolf, 118 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:58,940 or against a normal stand, a human rather than against the forces of evil. 119 00:10:58,940 --> 00:11:04,130 The point then would not be as significant as it is, 120 00:11:04,130 --> 00:11:09,140 it is then the monster's spiritual background, which is contributed by 121 00:11:09,140 --> 00:11:14,220 Christianity, by Christian theology. That makes them really powerful 122 00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:20,480 and meaningful. But make that makes the monster's symbolic. 123 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,590 I can put it on, I go. In this poem, the balance 124 00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:31,710 is nice, but it is present. The large symbolism is near the surface, 125 00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:38,180 but it does not break through nor become allegory, something more significant 126 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:43,410 as unstamped a hero and then faced with a full, more evil than any human 127 00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:49,260 entity of house or real is before us and getting ready in time, walking in great history 128 00:11:49,260 --> 00:11:56,210 and treading the main lands of the north. End of quote. 129 00:11:56,210 --> 00:12:01,540 So it is basically the combination between 130 00:12:01,540 --> 00:12:07,030 reality on the one hand and spirituality on the other. That makes the monsters 131 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:12,140 will be great. And this is precisely, I would argue, 132 00:12:12,140 --> 00:12:17,210 what talking led from that point. That the 133 00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:22,610 antagonisms have to be both material and spiritual at the same 134 00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:27,830 time. And this is the quality that the main most 13 talkings 135 00:12:27,830 --> 00:12:33,030 work. Having common. Think of the backlog 136 00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:39,280 of media, for example. He is impressive from a physical perspective. 137 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:44,800 Tall, menacing, shouting, fire and Douglas brandishing 138 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:51,240 firing weapons. Probably, but not certainly wings. 139 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:57,810 But the most terrifying thing about the Mylo. Is that such a gigantic creature? 140 00:12:57,810 --> 00:13:04,460 Is inhabited by an evil spirit, by a naval intelligence. Intel. 141 00:13:04,460 --> 00:13:10,370 So the Balrog. Is one of the rebellious Miah 142 00:13:10,370 --> 00:13:15,670 that rose against a at that at the beginning of time, and the same, of course, 143 00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:22,530 could be said about Saddam Lord. America's lieutenant. 144 00:13:22,530 --> 00:13:27,860 Is a spirit, and that is the most threatening, you know, Boeing 145 00:13:27,860 --> 00:13:33,040 and the saying we could say about the works and the Barrow whites. 146 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:38,500 Material creatures inhabited or animated by evil, diabolical 147 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:44,530 spirits. In a way, it could be said 148 00:13:44,530 --> 00:13:49,800 that the cosmological background presented in the same Mourilyan 149 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,090 give significance or symbolic power. 150 00:13:55,090 --> 00:14:00,520 To the monsters of the Lord of the Rings. Yes, as the biblical background gives meaning 151 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:07,080 to the monkeys of knobbing folklore in Babel. 152 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,560 Before finishing, there is one more point that I would like to make. 153 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:17,600 It should be clear by now that talking admired the bear will put its depiction 154 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:23,750 of East monsters. But there is one thing that talking didn't like. 155 00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:29,330 This is we're talking sad about the Portmans Dragon, and I quote. 156 00:14:29,330 --> 00:14:34,480 Bilbo's Dragon, in one way, she's really to criticise is not 157 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:40,480 to be blamed for being a dragon, but rather for not being dragon enough 158 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,550 plain, pure fairy story dragon. That are in the poem, 159 00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:50,720 some vivid touches of the right kind. Thien. So somewhere amongst 160 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,970 Walk Grant, was anyone strong after starting in which 161 00:14:55,970 --> 00:15:01,130 these dragon real world with rest your life and sort of his own, but the conception 162 00:15:01,130 --> 00:15:06,270 nonetheless approaches that Iconix rather than Dragoo, 163 00:15:06,270 --> 00:15:11,450 a person indication of malice, greed, destruction, the evil side of heroic life, and 164 00:15:11,450 --> 00:15:16,610 of the undiscriminating cruelty or fortune that distinguishes not good or bad the 165 00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:21,860 evil side of all life. End of quote. So cocaine 166 00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:27,320 did not completely like or even dislike. 167 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:33,050 They will drag them for being too abstract, for being a person irrigation 168 00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:38,090 and hence for lacking a personality. And this 169 00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:45,410 is something that he obviously rectified. And he's still worth. 170 00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:50,720 Single smile. The Terrible in the healthy, for example. On 171 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:56,000 long, the problem of goodwill, which does not speak even once, 172 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:01,190 slug several dialogues. And in these, he reversed himself to be cruel, 173 00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:06,230 sadistic, greedy, arrogant, but also self-assured and very, very 174 00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:11,870 intelligent. Smile has indeed a very interesting personality. From a psychological 175 00:16:11,870 --> 00:16:17,690 perspective, and I would say that his personality is, in fact not very dissimilar 176 00:16:17,690 --> 00:16:23,640 from that of very successful people that you may know. 177 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:30,030 Another remarkable sample from poking work. Is global. 178 00:16:30,030 --> 00:16:35,650 The heart of all dragons. Glowering is the main antagonist 179 00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:40,870 in the story of touring Rumba in the Gwyneth Silmarillion. And in that chapter 180 00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:47,000 of the Silmarillion in the Story of Asturian. There are from the very beginning, 181 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,880 many references to the drug. And from the beginning of the story, 182 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:58,830 then, a writer vividly describes Loudon's trail of destruction, 183 00:16:58,830 --> 00:17:03,890 but it takes some time for the Dragon to make his first appearance. 184 00:17:03,890 --> 00:17:09,290 And finally, when during the hero and gload of the Dragon 185 00:17:09,290 --> 00:17:14,900 meet for the first time, what we quite naturally expect 186 00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:20,240 is a brutal fight. But that is not what we get. Instead, 187 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,790 Guillaume very politely greet touring with the following 188 00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:32,870 word. Hey, and abhorring. Well, 189 00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:38,090 I must say, I've always found these to be one of the most powerful moments in talkings 190 00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:44,150 work. Talking first makes us expect a bestial creature. 191 00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:49,340 And then he presents us with a cautious, polite, well-mannered and intelligent 192 00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:54,540 mind. And that is precisely, I would say. What makes Laurel all the more 193 00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:59,680 Hogle? And in fact, as many of you will know, Glow-Worm 194 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,970 will bring about four during a fate more dreadful and more tragic 195 00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:10,470 than that of a deep skin cell. And would these I finish? 196 00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:16,170 I expect you to have game two ideas for lethal cost. One. 197 00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:21,750 That there is artistry behind talkings monsters. 198 00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:27,510 They present an attractive and intelligent combination of materiality 199 00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:33,430 and spirituality that make them work poetically. Symbolically, 200 00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:38,470 without becoming allegorical, and these Tolkien learnt 201 00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:43,630 from the bay of both. To talking found fault 202 00:18:43,630 --> 00:18:49,450 with the way that they will point depicted his dragon to abstract. 203 00:18:49,450 --> 00:18:54,460 These mistake talking rectified in his work by providing 204 00:18:54,460 --> 00:19:00,310 his dragons with truly memorable personalities. 205 00:19:00,310 --> 00:19:06,280 I also hope to have persuaded you that if you like talking fantasy, 206 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:11,440 then you love mediaeval literature and you would like to explore more 207 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:18,450 this connexion between Tolkien, a mediaeval literature. I strongly recommend two books to you. 208 00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:23,840 The road to the left by my dear friend, I'm shooby. 209 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,860 And the case of Miller discovering mediaeval literature through the fiction of J 210 00:19:28,860 --> 00:19:35,220 are talking by my colleague Stuart Lee. And Lisa with SoloPower. 211 00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:40,470 Two weeks, I must say, that I always found very inspiring. And from which I can assure 212 00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:45,560 you, you will learn a lot. It was love of talking 213 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,630 that made me read. That made me read and study mediaeval literature. And he was in 214 00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:55,900 law of mediaeval, indicated McNeilly, southern Spain, where I'm from, 215 00:19:55,900 --> 00:20:01,790 and come to Oxford to teach and study. And if you follow this path, 216 00:20:01,790 --> 00:20:07,400 if you study literature, perhaps one day you love it of talking 217 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,980 and a fantasy will also become a literary scholar. Which is, I think, 218 00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:19,487 one of the greatest joys. In a human like.