1 00:00:03,140 --> 00:00:12,090 Modern Fairies and Loathly Ladies podcast series one, Episode five Loathly Ladies. 2 00:00:12,090 --> 00:00:15,880 Hello, this is Faye Hield and this is Caroline Larrington. 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:22,320 In the first episode in the series, we introduced our project, Modern Fairies and Loathly Ladies in this project. 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:30,510 We research traditional tales about fairies in the British Isles and then investigate how some contemporary musicians, writers and artists. 5 00:00:30,510 --> 00:00:36,870 Re mediate or are inspired by those tales to make new works of art that speak to our modern lives. 6 00:00:36,870 --> 00:00:45,090 And this. And for this series, the final podcast, we're going to talk about loathly ladies in the earliest forms of this story. 7 00:00:45,090 --> 00:00:52,080 The loathly lady represents the idea of sovereignity or the right to rule a kingdom. 8 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,710 When you first meet her in the forest, she's ugly and difficult. 9 00:00:55,710 --> 00:01:02,100 But if you grasp your opportunity and embrace her warmly, she'll transform in your arms and become beautiful. 10 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:08,550 So to winning a kingdom is hard and dangerous. But once you have it, royal rule is splendid. 11 00:01:08,550 --> 00:01:16,080 This story type was adapted in the mediaeval period and then later Ballads to explore the difference between the outside and the inside. 12 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:24,190 And also importantly, the tale became part of a cultural discussion about women and agency Chaucer's wife of Bath. 13 00:01:24,190 --> 00:01:31,170 There's one of the most famous retailers of this tale, but there are other versions with slightly different inflexions. 14 00:01:31,170 --> 00:01:38,790 In the Ballad and Folktale, we find the story of the woman who has been transformed by her stepmother into a monstrous being. 15 00:01:38,790 --> 00:01:47,930 The hero must summon up the courage to kiss her, often three times in order to disenchant her, often winning other treasures in the process. 16 00:01:47,930 --> 00:01:51,120 But let's start by talking about the wife of Barth's tale, 17 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:58,830 because that's a particularly interesting one in this story, unlike most of the other versions of the tale. 18 00:01:58,830 --> 00:02:06,330 The man who has to go on the quest to find out what it is that women want is a rapist and the queen and the 19 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:13,350 other ladies of the court have decided to rehabilitate him instead of having him executed for his crime. 20 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:18,990 And so he's sent off into the forest to try to find out what it is that women want. 21 00:02:18,990 --> 00:02:22,920 And this means, of course, he has to talk to them and have a discussion with them, 22 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:27,570 has to treat them like other human beings in order to get some idea. 23 00:02:27,570 --> 00:02:36,480 But all the women he meets tell him different things that what women really want his love or its clothes or its treasure or its beauty. 24 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:42,280 And in the end, he is in desperation to try and decide which one is the right answer. 25 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:49,500 And he is on his way back to court weighing his options when he meets a foul hag sitting in the forest. 26 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:57,420 And in fact, there have been fairies dancing nearby, which would alert him to the idea that this is no ordinary woman. 27 00:02:57,420 --> 00:03:03,210 And the far hag says that she can tell him what it is that women want, but she wants a reward for it. 28 00:03:03,210 --> 00:03:09,780 And he's so delighted he takes her back to the court and she tells him that what women want is sovereignty. 29 00:03:09,780 --> 00:03:18,960 They want their own way. They want to be treated just as ménard treated as people with their own agency and their own power. 30 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,760 And when this answer is given, the ladies of the courts and the queen all are sent to it. 31 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:31,170 But then it turns out what the cost is, is that the knight must marry the foul hag. 32 00:03:31,170 --> 00:03:36,490 So the marriage takes place and she eats quite a lot during the course of dinner, which is a bit embarrassing. 33 00:03:36,490 --> 00:03:39,060 And when they're in bed together that night, 34 00:03:39,060 --> 00:03:45,570 the lady rather gently teases the night about the fact it doesn't seem to be very keen on having sex with her. 35 00:03:45,570 --> 00:03:51,960 And he says, well, it's not too surprising because you are foul and ugly and old and low born as well. 36 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:58,110 And she gives him a little lecture on not judging by appearances, but then says, look, here's the deal. 37 00:03:58,110 --> 00:04:04,470 You can either have me beautiful and faithless or ugly and faithful. 38 00:04:04,470 --> 00:04:13,350 And the night I sometimes think rather by accident says, well, my lady and my love and wife said, Dear, you choose. 39 00:04:13,350 --> 00:04:18,090 And she says, Then I choose to be both beautiful and faithful. 40 00:04:18,090 --> 00:04:25,730 Here's some of that story in the original middle English. Here's Brian McMahon reading for us. 41 00:04:25,730 --> 00:04:34,510 Wife of Barth's tale. Here is the night making his choice and the ladies response. 42 00:04:34,510 --> 00:04:42,180 She's now called she. All of these things tway to hand to me foul and oh, 43 00:04:42,180 --> 00:04:51,600 till that day and be to yallah true humble leaf and I never yell displease an all me leaf or elles. 44 00:04:51,600 --> 00:05:03,850 While hand me young and fair and take your adventure off the repair that shall be to your house by cause of me or in some other place may well be. 45 00:05:03,850 --> 00:05:08,510 Now cheers your cell phone with her that she. Oh like. 46 00:05:08,510 --> 00:05:18,590 This night, a visor hair man saw a sixth, but at last he said in this manner, my lady and my love and wife so dear, 47 00:05:18,590 --> 00:05:29,030 I put me in your wise governance cheese of yourself, which may be most pleasance and must honour to you and me also. 48 00:05:29,030 --> 00:05:32,970 I do no forced to either of the two four, as you like of it. 49 00:05:32,970 --> 00:05:38,450 Suffice with me than have I get our Yale Mastery Quad. 50 00:05:38,450 --> 00:05:42,950 She said I'm a tease and government as me east. 51 00:05:42,950 --> 00:05:49,770 Yes, sir. His wife Quoddy. I hold it best. Kiss me, Cochi. 52 00:05:49,770 --> 00:05:55,250 We'll be no longer wrath. For by my truth I will be too. 53 00:05:55,250 --> 00:06:02,290 We are both. That is to say. And ye both fair and good. 54 00:06:02,290 --> 00:06:07,080 In some of the other versions of the story that we find here in the wife of Barth's tale, 55 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:13,410 the choice isn't a moral choice between being beautiful and faithless or ugly and faithful. 56 00:06:13,410 --> 00:06:21,150 But there's a more straightforward one in some ways of being fair by night and failed by day or file by night, fair by day. 57 00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:27,300 So that's more of a public private issue, isn't it, how the man is going to be judged in public? 58 00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:34,530 Does he want everybody to know that he is married to an amazingly beautiful woman or does he want to have an amazingly beautiful 59 00:06:34,530 --> 00:06:42,540 woman by his side at night time and with everyone feeling sorry for him during the day because his wife is such an ugly hag? 60 00:06:42,540 --> 00:06:51,360 Yes. But even in those choices, in those decisions that the gentleman has to make, he still passes the choice back onto the woman, doesn't he? 61 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,640 That's the key motif in this, 62 00:06:53,640 --> 00:07:01,080 that he's given a really difficult decision to make and a decision that whichever he came up with would be a judge on his character. 63 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:07,890 And rather than make that decision, he would prefer to hand it to the woman to make her own choice on her life and how she might be presented. 64 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:12,510 So he's learnt the practical lesson. He learnt the theory, and he gave the right answer to the court. 65 00:07:12,510 --> 00:07:19,890 But now he's got to put it into practise, which is actually saying to his wife, you're an independent woman with agency. 66 00:07:19,890 --> 00:07:24,270 You have a soul as well as anybody else you decide is up to you. 67 00:07:24,270 --> 00:07:28,260 And that, of course, is what unleashes the the happy ending there. 68 00:07:28,260 --> 00:07:33,360 The cynic in me is perhaps wondering if it was just too hard a decision for him to make and that he probably 69 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:38,720 spent quite a lot of time trying to work out which one he would prefer before it's all going well. 70 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,490 That's scratching his chin. And then he eventually gives up. 71 00:07:41,490 --> 00:07:46,350 Well, I think the wife of Barth's tale ex rapist is probably the one who is really something. 72 00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:50,960 But in some of the other sources that Gallin, who is the most courteous and chivalrous of nights, 73 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:58,140 and I think he very quickly says, well, dear lady, you can decide. And that's exactly what we would expect for him. 74 00:07:58,140 --> 00:08:02,630 There is, of course, a bit of an assumption here that the ideal is to be alive, 75 00:08:02,630 --> 00:08:09,270 18 year old and beautiful lady to lie down next to the bed and gaze boldly offensive. 76 00:08:09,270 --> 00:08:16,120 That is, the slightly older lady is viewed here as something so repugnant and repulsive. 77 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:23,820 There must be an inner beauty in there somewhere. Yes, it's interesting that Chaucer's version that she plays down the hideousness of the lead in. 78 00:08:23,820 --> 00:08:27,630 She's just old and wrinkled and not very attractive, 79 00:08:27,630 --> 00:08:33,330 whereas in some of the other stories she's actually got tusks like a hog and horrible bristly hair and 80 00:08:33,330 --> 00:08:39,180 really does look monstrous at the wedding fee she's eats than so much food that the husband is thinking, 81 00:08:39,180 --> 00:08:46,770 oh, my God, could I be next? In that sense. But I think it's right that there is a kind of extraordinary wish fulfilment in these stories that. 82 00:08:46,770 --> 00:08:49,680 Yes, because what everybody wants is an 18 year old. 83 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:56,760 But maybe also what everybody wants to be is that 18 year old brings into question what is monstrous. 84 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,780 What is monster. Yep. And what is where is the true beauty? 85 00:09:00,780 --> 00:09:04,880 Is it in the blonde hair and the blue eyes and the lithe figure? 86 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:14,160 Or is it the beauty of the wisdom of the older woman shines through and teaches the night how he should be thinking about women? 87 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,690 Well, in some of the stories that the lonely lady, 88 00:09:18,690 --> 00:09:25,230 the woman has got that way because she has crossed her wicked stepmother and she's the one who transforms her. 89 00:09:25,230 --> 00:09:28,230 And this is a motif in some of the ballots as well. It is. 90 00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:38,010 And instead of being transformed into an older lady in this case, they tend to be a little bit more extreme and either some lovely dragon or a beast, 91 00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:44,070 a real beast of some kind which terrifies people and becomes a legend in the locality 92 00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:49,170 that people have to overcome their fear of the beast in order to gain some reward. 93 00:09:49,170 --> 00:09:53,730 And is not any old person who can do that. It's in in one folktale. 94 00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:58,850 It's the brother who comes back and rescues his sister and he knows it's his sister. 95 00:09:58,850 --> 00:10:04,350 So he he plucks up the courage to kiss three times this hideous fire breathing dragon. 96 00:10:04,350 --> 00:10:08,220 And she knows he's trying to help circle. She doesn't attack him in any way. 97 00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:12,270 But more often, it's the lover, isn't it? He's got to have that courage. Yes. 98 00:10:12,270 --> 00:10:17,790 And there's a question there of what what is the case or what is the lover trying to get? 99 00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:26,110 There's often some kind of physical or skill-based or valour reward offered for kissing. 100 00:10:26,110 --> 00:10:35,160 And so in the story of Campeau in, for example, she'll give a ring which will protect in any battle or there'll be a sword which will slay any enemy. 101 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:42,150 And so there is a question there as to. Can he see through there the ugliness to the beauty of the soul within. 102 00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:48,780 And is you just wanting, like in the more modern stories, to kiss his frog and turn into a princess? 103 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:53,880 Or is he just after the beauty and the bounty rather than the beauty? 104 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,890 Well, it's kind of interesting incentive. There isn't the first kiss is scary, but he gets reward for it. 105 00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:06,490 And that kind of encourages him to go on and get. The sword and the ring and the belt finally, and then she she doesn't chance. 106 00:11:06,490 --> 00:11:17,930 And now we're going to hear you singing it. Hey, yo. This is the song of Campos in. 107 00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:30,840 More than one, she was deal, which gave her cause to grieve more for the married. 108 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:44,920 That was Woltman, not the person she saw that night and. 109 00:11:44,920 --> 00:12:02,950 She could do was when in a fit of rage, she's about to say, my goal is know my sorrows. 110 00:12:02,950 --> 00:12:06,920 Joe Campbell, show to the crowd. 111 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:15,170 I'm Barack. This was Kisses three. Oh. 112 00:12:15,170 --> 00:12:22,920 Twisted three times the tree. Oh. 113 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:29,640 Oh. So she then goes to cry. 114 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:37,480 Oh that's my to. 115 00:12:37,480 --> 00:13:15,700 Oh that's showbiz woes. As long as those who started the sea reached the beach. 116 00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:34,150 So he has taken his new day and swore she knows that today would shoot. 117 00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:42,890 Oh, my. Though it has not for fear of the Kings. 118 00:13:42,890 --> 00:13:52,020 So do I. Kiss me. 119 00:13:52,020 --> 00:14:07,790 Listed three times around the time, the way she came singing. 120 00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:13,970 Oh, Roy Hill, soldier who served tifo, then sold. 121 00:14:13,970 --> 00:14:21,070 Sold. See? Wow. Bobby is wrong. 122 00:14:21,070 --> 00:14:32,250 All day. But if you'll touch me, then I shall be. 123 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:37,120 Oh, very small tree. 124 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:51,090 Hey, wait. He's dead. His royal was brought breath was. 125 00:14:51,090 --> 00:15:06,680 Twisted Tree. Well, I guess sticking to the. 126 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:12,870 I'm Roy Hill. She said that I've honed in the soul. 127 00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:18,800 So see, your body is on John. 128 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:25,860 John Hill. They will touch me. 129 00:15:25,860 --> 00:15:33,670 That's be small. 130 00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:40,390 But the truth is she okay with this when he's dead? 131 00:15:40,390 --> 00:15:56,450 Pins and broader. She swung again. 132 00:15:56,450 --> 00:16:09,800 James. So that was parts of Kempo in that she was seeing there, Faye, and we did it, 133 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:15,490 quite a vivid description in that ballad of how transformed Isabel is by her wicked stepmother. 134 00:16:15,490 --> 00:16:25,630 We do. And it paints a very vivid picture in my head of this ugly, scaly beast tied to a tree with gnarly hair and very strong breath. 135 00:16:25,630 --> 00:16:32,170 There's a language there which I'm seeing rather than halitosis as a kind of fire breathing dragon, me worm. 136 00:16:32,170 --> 00:16:38,440 And she's twisted with her hair, isn't she? Around the tree. And there's a kind of gradual unravelling that in this story. 137 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,390 At least Isabel doesn't hurt anybody, even though she does look repulsive. 138 00:16:43,390 --> 00:16:49,090 I think that's key to lots of these stories that they are capable of, of huge destruction. 139 00:16:49,090 --> 00:16:59,170 These animals and beasts are powerful creatures, really powerful, but they don't seem to inflict hurt or damage is very much a surface treatment. 140 00:16:59,170 --> 00:17:06,100 They're evil beasts. They look like evil beasts, but they behave in the same way that their souls were before the transformation. 141 00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:12,190 In some cases, they do some damage, but that tends to be after a night has failed to kiss them. 142 00:17:12,190 --> 00:17:15,620 And they've been rejected. Then they might retaliate. Yes. 143 00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:24,910 And there is one mediaeval story called Amenities also, which is the tale of the daughter of the king of Crete who's being transformed into a dragon. 144 00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:30,820 And she lives in the cave waiting for the man who is brave enough to come along and kiss her. 145 00:17:30,820 --> 00:17:35,500 But the ground in front of the cave is littered by the bones of the many knights 146 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:40,010 who've come to try this adventure and just taken one look at it and thought, 147 00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:45,400 Oh, now I just can't do that. And then she lashes out and kills them. 148 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:51,280 And that, of course, discourages even further the ones who approach the cave as these bones mount up. 149 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:58,570 But in the version that we have in the tales of Sir John Mandeville that was written down in the middle of the 14th century, 150 00:17:58,570 --> 00:18:05,890 there is a young man who gets so close, so close, and he's seen her in her beautiful form and he knows he just has to go in and 151 00:18:05,890 --> 00:18:12,580 kiss the dragon and he fails miserably and she just lashes out and kills him. 152 00:18:12,580 --> 00:18:15,640 And she's still there to this day waiting for the romance. 153 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:23,110 So if you are the right man and you happen to be in Crete, well, with cheap flights this time of year, 154 00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:27,250 another ballad with a similar theme to this is The Ballad of King Henry. 155 00:18:27,250 --> 00:18:32,870 Here's Brian Mong reading for us. King Henry. 156 00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:42,070 Let never a man are wooing when that lacks these virtues. Three Ruth of gold, an open heart, a cup of charity. 157 00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:50,440 Or it happened to King Henry as a hunting, he did ride 10, his hawk, his good greyhound, running loud down by his side. 158 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,570 He's chased the Rodia him before. He's chased the buck all down to his den. 159 00:18:55,570 --> 00:18:59,230 And the fattest deer in all the flock. Young King Henry. 160 00:18:59,230 --> 00:19:05,380 He had slain King Henry. Eight of the venison, the dogs, eight of the blood. 161 00:19:05,380 --> 00:19:13,870 They lay down. They fell asleep, asleep as they were dead. It fell about the midnight hour, the hour when all men lay asleep. 162 00:19:13,870 --> 00:19:18,490 Such chill winds blew around the house. The very trees did weep. 163 00:19:18,490 --> 00:19:22,670 Great shaking, shook the house about shaking, split the door. 164 00:19:22,670 --> 00:19:27,490 The foulest woman that ever there was came a stamping on the floor. 165 00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:34,240 Her head hit the roof of the hunting lodge. Her waist you could hardly spam if a foul a woman lived. 166 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:41,260 She was not known to God or man. Oh, meet to meet a king and B, meet. 167 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:48,190 Give that thou to me. But meet that at the house lady that you're not welcome to. 168 00:19:48,190 --> 00:19:54,340 So she has taken his good brown steed and all, but, oh, his heart was sore. 169 00:19:54,340 --> 00:20:01,450 She's ate it up both skin and bone left nothing but hide and hair. 170 00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:05,410 Oh, more meat. A king and B more meat. 171 00:20:05,410 --> 00:20:12,910 Give the vow to me. What meat. That at the house lady that you're not welcome to. 172 00:20:12,910 --> 00:20:18,040 So she has taken his gay goshawk and oh, but oh, his heart was sore. 173 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:24,070 She's is ated up all skin and bone left nothing but feathers. Bear oh, more meat. 174 00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:28,780 King and be more meat. Give thou me what meat. 175 00:20:28,780 --> 00:20:34,810 There in the house lady that you're not welcome to. So she has taken his good greyhound and. 176 00:20:34,810 --> 00:20:38,410 Oh but oh his heart was sore. She's ate it up. 177 00:20:38,410 --> 00:20:43,260 Both skin and bone left nothing but hide. And her. 178 00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:53,470 Oh, during during a king and B drink, give thou to me what drinks there at the house lady that you're not welcome to. 179 00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:58,450 So he's sewn up his horses hide and wine and good wine. He has put in. 180 00:20:58,450 --> 00:21:03,850 She drank it up. She drank it down. There was no drop left in bad, bad king. 181 00:21:03,850 --> 00:21:11,880 And to be bad for you and me, I do vow and I do swear tonight to lie down with thee. 182 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:17,020 Oh, take your boots off. King Henry. And let all your clothes fall for you. 183 00:21:17,020 --> 00:21:22,200 And I will in one bed lie and lie next to the wall. 184 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:32,220 Oh, God forbid, says King Henry, that ever the like betide that ever a fiend that comes from hell will should stretch down by my side. 185 00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:38,960 The night was gone. The day was come. The sun shone through the whole. 186 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:46,380 The fairest woman, that ad I was late twixt him on the wall. 187 00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:52,410 Oh, what is this? Crise young King Henry, how long will this last with me? 188 00:21:52,410 --> 00:22:04,390 And they're up, spoke the fair young lady. Even until the day you dared to be for I've met many is the gentleman who gave to me all my fellow. 189 00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:12,120 Now met such a gentleman who gave to me all my will. 190 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:17,280 So that is a truly horrifying figure that King Henry has to deal with. 191 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,540 She's obviously female. 192 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:27,120 He recognises her as that, but she forces him to kill all of his most precious animals, all the signifiers of his royal status. 193 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:33,110 The horse and the hounds and the ghost horse. And she just crunches all them all up. 194 00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:37,050 She devours them. And then she devours him as well. 195 00:22:37,050 --> 00:22:43,360 And they share this bet. And he has to give himself over to her as well and be under her power there. 196 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:48,030 Yeah. I think we can assume that it's not just a question of cuddling up in bed together. 197 00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:52,670 But there must be some kind of sexual activity to kind of finalise the transformation. 198 00:22:52,670 --> 00:23:00,360 And it doesn't seem like a positive choice either. Like you say, he he has to hand over his slaves of status in the animals. 199 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:04,860 He wasn't choosing to bestow a fabulous meal on this lady. 200 00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:09,690 He met in the woods. He was under some pressure, under her power to to deliver. 201 00:23:09,690 --> 00:23:14,340 So is an unusual gender role reversal going on here? 202 00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:24,120 I feel. Yep. And it's the same question of I think that we saw back in the wife of Barth's tale where the rapist 203 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:29,010 discovers what it's like to be constrained to have sex with someone he doesn't want to have sex with. 204 00:23:29,010 --> 00:23:32,820 Of course, it's slightly different for men. It's much easier for them to refuse. 205 00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:40,350 But the idea that they're terrified into having to have unwelcome sexual contact with the woman does kind of explain 206 00:23:40,350 --> 00:23:47,600 why Chaucer decided to make his hero a rapist and does throw those questions of power dynamics into very close relief. 207 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,290 Perhaps it isn't. It's very much about the power and the the visual. 208 00:23:52,290 --> 00:23:58,920 Of course, in this case, again, the woman becomes a beautiful woman and they stay together and they're very happy forever and ever. 209 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,690 So he does get his reward for treating her like a human in some way. 210 00:24:03,690 --> 00:24:08,640 So we might not all suck on the blood of a guy. So he he does veto and he does lie with her. 211 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,220 He doesn't treat her like an animal. 212 00:24:10,220 --> 00:24:18,720 And he does give her some of his choices, wine as he allows her to fill up his horses, hide, which must be enormous with wine. 213 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,890 And she drinks that. And you can see how he must be absolutely terrified. 214 00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:28,770 See just the scale of the appetite. So this woman has got if she could eat like that and she can drink like that. 215 00:24:28,770 --> 00:24:33,000 What is safe to be like with her? Well, he'll be left in the morning. 216 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:40,800 Yes. So that seems to be a common theme. Running through all these stories is they're seeing through what's in front of you to understand 217 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,240 what their needs are and what you can do to satisfy their needs and the power balance, 218 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:51,330 how how in their control you are or how much you can control their future fate that they're asking 219 00:24:51,330 --> 00:24:56,220 something from you in order for them to return to some kind of state they would like to be. 220 00:24:56,220 --> 00:25:03,060 But you have to get over your what's facing you and the fears that are facing you in order to be able to treat them with respect. 221 00:25:03,060 --> 00:25:11,070 You've got to be able to look beyond the surface of the surface of the the strong breath dragon or the woman with the tusks and the bristly hair, 222 00:25:11,070 --> 00:25:18,840 or this creature who can eat your horse in your hand and your goes hawks and trust that there's a real human being, 223 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:27,240 real feeling, human woman who is capable of of love and affection if you can only reach through to her. 224 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:37,660 So almost a question of not showing monstrous behaviour towards a monster yet, but kindness and treating it as you would treat any other person, 225 00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:46,410 any other male person, I suspect very often is what always rewards the hero because he gets the beautiful woman. 226 00:25:46,410 --> 00:25:51,270 And I guess she gets him. And so she has got somebody who is worth having, 227 00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:56,850 whether it's the king who turns out to be frightened and generous or the kempo in who is 228 00:25:56,850 --> 00:26:02,960 brave enough to see through her hideous monstrosity and to give her the kisses or the night, 229 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,680 who figures out he just needs to hand over autonomy to his wife. 230 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:16,410 These tales teach us about possibilities of change and transformation, of looking beyond the surface to see the hidden beauty beneath. 231 00:26:16,410 --> 00:26:25,200 They also warn that women must be granted the same kind of autonomy that men enjoy without question, that they can be as moral and loving as any hero. 232 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:31,890 These women start off as excluded and made hateful by the society that excludes and ignores them. 233 00:26:31,890 --> 00:26:35,520 But if trusted and nurtured, they can develop their full potential. 234 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:45,690 We hope you've enjoyed these podcasts about Fairies and Lonely Ladies, as second series about the Modern Fairies Project will follow in late 2019. 235 00:26:45,690 --> 00:26:52,860 And that will feature the responses of our project artists to the fairy stories and themes that we've discussed in this series. 236 00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:58,110 Look out for that. Follow us on Twitter at modern underscore faries. 237 00:26:58,110 --> 00:27:04,140 Find the page on Facebook or take a look at our Web site. Modern faries Stocco Dot UK. 238 00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:11,790 If you happen to be able to come to the stage at Gateshead, there'll be a residency with open rehearsals, an actual performance. 239 00:27:11,790 --> 00:27:44,894 Of the artist's new work, and that's on April 26, 27 and 28, 1990.