1 00:00:03,150 --> 00:00:08,790 Well, greetings to all participants, wherever you are, are welcome to this webinar. 2 00:00:08,790 --> 00:00:13,860 What's beneath the words? A paper journey with printer David Arms and 3 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:19,290 book conservator Andrew Honey, hosted by the Oxford Research Centre and the Humanities. 4 00:00:19,290 --> 00:00:24,510 I'm Alex Franklin, co-ordinator of the Bombay Library Centre for the Study of the book. Today 5 00:00:24,510 --> 00:00:29,850 is Webinars about the part of the book that we don't think we are reading the paper that is beneath 6 00:00:29,850 --> 00:00:35,160 the words. But then libraries are very fortunate to have a fully functioning letterpress 7 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:40,980 workshop on site. It's equipped with several 19th century hand operated cast-Iron 8 00:00:40,980 --> 00:00:46,590 presses and also a 20th century proofing press. We have enough type 9 00:00:46,590 --> 00:00:51,750 for students and keen amateurs to do projects, especially in castling 10 00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:56,760 and belt typefaces faces. And the room is usually used for teaching to schools, 11 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,860 universities and the public. But to help us make the most of the workshop, we 12 00:01:01,860 --> 00:01:07,590 invite creative letterpress artists as printer and residents each year. 13 00:01:07,590 --> 00:01:12,840 In 2017, we hosted Russell Mouret, whose New York based in 2018, Emily 14 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,940 Martin from Iowa and most recently, David Arms, our speaker today, who runs 15 00:01:17,940 --> 00:01:23,010 the Red Plate Press in West Yorkshire. David was at the ball game during November 16 00:01:23,010 --> 00:01:28,090 twenty nineteen. And our next frontier and residents coming in 2021 17 00:01:28,090 --> 00:01:33,440 will become Musgrove, a marker from Amsterdam, the printer in Residence programme brings a creative 18 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,720 printmaker to share their knowledge with the university and with the wider public community who learn at the workshop 19 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,790 and our weekly classes. The best part of it, we think, is that they interact with 20 00:01:43,790 --> 00:01:49,460 the Bell Bay libraries, making work that responds to the collections and takes inspiration from the building, 21 00:01:49,460 --> 00:01:54,620 the history and the people of the building. Before we begin, a bit of housekeeping 22 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:59,690 for all the participants, we're running for one hour today. Andrew Honey will speak 23 00:01:59,690 --> 00:02:04,790 first and then David Arms and then we'll have time to answer questions. Participants 24 00:02:04,790 --> 00:02:09,840 will notice that your mikes are muted. So please use the Q and A function 25 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:15,430 with which you can see at the bottom of your Zoom's screen. If you move your cursor down to the bottom 26 00:02:15,430 --> 00:02:20,660 and please type in a question for our speakers during the webinar or while they're actually speaking, please, 27 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:25,730 and we'll get to as many of these as we can before the end. And also, please, can I 28 00:02:25,730 --> 00:02:31,040 ask you cheque the chat function during the webinar because I'll be able to post useful links 29 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:36,260 and information there. So now we're joined by David Aames, who's at the Red Plate 30 00:02:36,260 --> 00:02:41,510 Press in West Yorkshire. Hello, David. And we're joined by Andrew 31 00:02:41,510 --> 00:02:50,220 Honey Book conservator in the conservation section of the Balvin Library. Hello, Andrew. 32 00:02:50,220 --> 00:02:55,390 When Andrew and is Andrew going to begin the webinar with presentation 33 00:02:55,390 --> 00:03:00,510 and after that, we're going to hear from David. Andrew Fatu. 34 00:03:00,510 --> 00:03:05,640 Thank you. Thank you. Well. I'm 35 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:11,010 sure like. Like the rest of you. Lockdown 36 00:03:11,010 --> 00:03:16,260 has been a rather unusual experience for us. And certainly as we've moved 37 00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:21,510 from working in the bottling library to to working at home. 38 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:27,360 I've been buoyed by being able to follow other people's progress through 39 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,630 social media. And one of the things 40 00:03:32,630 --> 00:03:37,670 that's been sort of slightly disconcerting to that is to see as I floundered and had difficulty 41 00:03:37,670 --> 00:03:42,830 working from home just to see how productive others have been. 42 00:03:42,830 --> 00:03:47,930 One of the most productive people I think I've seen is David Aames from 43 00:03:47,930 --> 00:03:53,480 Red Plate Press, who was printer in residence at the Bodleian Library 44 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,520 at the end of last year. I was particularly interested between 45 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:05,330 the 1st and the 6th of April days, 12 to 17 of lockdown, 46 00:04:05,330 --> 00:04:10,490 where he was posting on Twitter progress on 47 00:04:10,490 --> 00:04:16,370 a book that he started right at the end of his residency at the body. 48 00:04:16,370 --> 00:04:23,460 And for me, the most exciting thing about it was he was using paper that I'd supplied him with. 49 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:29,020 It's a small number of full sheets of Oxford, India paper. 50 00:04:29,020 --> 00:04:34,140 And I'm going to talk about a little about that papers by way of introduction. More worryingly, 51 00:04:34,140 --> 00:04:39,180 this was just the day before he seemed to run out of tahini, which was big news 52 00:04:39,180 --> 00:04:44,220 on his Twitter account, however. So. So let me start by 53 00:04:44,220 --> 00:04:59,280 explaining really what I passed over to. 54 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:04,620 This is a this is a folded sheet of Oxford, India 55 00:05:04,620 --> 00:05:09,810 paper. And I think you can hear that very characteristic rattling 56 00:05:09,810 --> 00:05:14,880 sound from it. This is just from a small supply that 57 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,920 I discovered deep within the bowels of the Botin library many years ago, shortly 58 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:25,040 after I started working there in our conservation stores. We do not know why 59 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:30,060 it's there. We don't quite know where it came from. But I identified 60 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:35,520 it as Oxford India paper. You'll see the water mark in a moment. 61 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,980 And I knew this was a particular paper used in Oxford in the late 19th century 62 00:05:40,980 --> 00:05:45,990 and early 20th century. So I put it to one side. And 63 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:51,330 I've kind of held onto it ever seen since was only recently 64 00:05:51,330 --> 00:05:57,080 with the start of the printer in residence. 65 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:02,090 Idea at the bargain that I've started to dribble out a few sheets 66 00:06:02,090 --> 00:06:11,100 thinking that, you know, this is such a precious resource, we ought to really use it. 67 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:16,170 However, just before I go into that, let let me show you where 68 00:06:16,170 --> 00:06:21,990 you might normally find it. So this is a copy of a book I bought many years ago. 69 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:28,470 The Oxford Book of English Furse printed in 1943. And it is 70 00:06:28,470 --> 00:06:34,320 again. I'm not sure if you can hear that same crackle, but this very thin, opaque 71 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,480 paper used to print the twelve hundred pages within it. 72 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:47,580 And it's a book that runs to about twenty two millimetres thick. 73 00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:52,590 By comparison, pulled off my shelves here. This is this is a copy of Anthony 74 00:06:52,590 --> 00:06:58,380 Trollops. The Prime Minister. I picked something fat and again an Oxford well classic. 75 00:06:58,380 --> 00:07:03,720 This runs to 480 pages and he's forty four millimetres thick, 76 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:10,080 printed in the 1980s on the usual kind of paper that we would expect for a paperback. 77 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:15,300 Now, it's interesting. This is 40 percent of the pages of the book 78 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:20,340 of verse, but it is twice as thick. If the Book of 79 00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:25,650 English first was printed on this same paper, it would run to eleven centimetres 80 00:07:25,650 --> 00:07:31,780 thick. So this is a very kind of amazing, opaque, 81 00:07:31,780 --> 00:07:36,990 thin, beautiful printing paper that we're lucky to have a small supply 82 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:42,380 of. And before I go, I wanted 83 00:07:42,380 --> 00:07:47,690 to show what all David's going to talk about, what he's done with it. Just I'll give you some background 84 00:07:47,690 --> 00:07:57,330 to it. 85 00:07:57,330 --> 00:08:03,120 So here's an image of part of the watermark. It has a repeating watermark. It's a machine made paper 86 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:08,150 and the watermark, says Oxford, India may not 87 00:08:08,150 --> 00:08:14,660 see any information. It's a way. 88 00:08:14,660 --> 00:08:19,760 Now, if I said this was this was a paper that I found so squirrelled away in our 89 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:26,950 conservation's stores. 90 00:08:26,950 --> 00:08:32,460 And here's the full watermark. Now, it's an unusual 91 00:08:32,460 --> 00:08:37,800 paper, as I've said. It's the sheets are about 40 inches 92 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:43,710 by twenty nine inches. A little over a metre by 74 centimetres, 93 00:08:43,710 --> 00:08:48,720 which I've been trying to work out what size it is. And as with everything else in Oxford, it 94 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,790 seems to be an unusual size of paper. Something like a quad crown, which would 95 00:08:53,790 --> 00:09:00,350 normally be 40 by 30 inches. The sheet of paper I rattled, 96 00:09:00,350 --> 00:09:05,400 I weighed, and it comes in at just over 97 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:10,650 I think it's 18 grams. And that works out as a grams 98 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:15,840 per square metre of 25. And if you think that the usual sort of photocopying, 99 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:21,060 paper or printing paper is 80, GSM gives you a sense of just how 100 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:26,670 thin this is. Oxford 101 00:09:26,670 --> 00:09:32,150 and AUP. In the late 19th century 102 00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:37,450 started to circulate their own origin story about this paper 103 00:09:37,450 --> 00:09:43,000 and the following quote is taken from publicity that they put out in 1896. 104 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:49,000 And I quote, In the year 1841, an Oxford graduate 105 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:55,180 is said to have brought home from the Far East a small fold of extremely thin paper, 106 00:09:55,180 --> 00:10:00,370 which was manifestly more opaque and tough than any other paper then manufactured 107 00:10:00,370 --> 00:10:05,650 in Europe. It goes on to explain that this Smalls fold 108 00:10:05,650 --> 00:10:10,690 of paper was enough to print 24 Bibles, though 109 00:10:10,690 --> 00:10:17,910 by the late 19th century, none of these it's known to have survived. 110 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:23,090 And these sort of extremely thin papers with 111 00:10:23,090 --> 00:10:29,250 them sort of looked back on at some point in the eighteen seventies 112 00:10:29,250 --> 00:10:34,500 and Oxford. They go on to explain that they prompted 113 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:39,540 them to begin experiments at their war for occult middle paper mill to make a similar 114 00:10:39,540 --> 00:10:45,670 paper. Now, in 1875, 115 00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:50,920 o u p first used what they called Oxford India 116 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,960 paper to print a Bible. And this was such a success that they sold a quarter 117 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:01,000 of a million copies in a few weeks. And this paper 118 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:06,250 proved and went on to be this a resounding success resulting in many 119 00:11:06,250 --> 00:11:11,350 Bibles and these sort of works of reference being printed on this thing. 120 00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:16,360 And yet opaque printing paper. So what is it? Is it 121 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,610 Indian? Is it Chinese? Was it made up? Well, the cult. Well, actually, the answer 122 00:11:21,610 --> 00:11:26,830 to all of these is no. And perhaps unsurprisingly, Oxford 123 00:11:26,830 --> 00:11:35,100 and AUP knew this. In 1896. 124 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:40,980 The paper, in fact, was made in Staffordshire by the firm of Britain's and by. 125 00:11:40,980 --> 00:11:45,990 They started in the eighteen seventies and by 1887 126 00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:51,480 they were supplying 5000, 154 pounds worth of this paper 127 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,590 to AUP in a single year. So why this 128 00:11:56,590 --> 00:12:02,110 unknown, all the little known paper company from Staffordshire 129 00:12:02,110 --> 00:12:07,390 in the mid 18th century, the process of transfer printing ceramics had been developed using 130 00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:12,520 a thin and strong tissue to transfer designs 131 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:18,070 to biscuit. That 132 00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:23,160 part of the ceramic process. By the 19th century, 133 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:28,680 these transfer printed were to become enormously popular with Staffordshire as the dominant centre 134 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:33,840 and also supply trains for them. 135 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:39,660 This strong but thin paper could be moulded around forms. And you can see the join 136 00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:46,080 of one of these transfer things on the egg cup at the front here. 137 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,620 And Hanley. Was this the source 138 00:12:51,620 --> 00:12:56,960 and the location for Britain's? 139 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:02,410 Paper mill in Staffordshire. 140 00:13:02,410 --> 00:13:07,480 Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised by this. In the 80s and 70s, 141 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:13,970 the brother of the manager of the Bible press was married 142 00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:19,360 into Bratten Coke Potters in Staffordshire. So it's understandable 143 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:25,000 to see these links. But this extraordinary 144 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:32,950 paper. 145 00:13:32,950 --> 00:13:39,100 This is extraordinary, take up, then take 146 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:45,400 fantastically you useful for printing these heavy works of reference 147 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,650 fell out of use probably at some time in the 1960s, though you pay 148 00:13:50,650 --> 00:13:56,650 still uses a very thin paper, not as thin for things like dictionaries. 149 00:13:56,650 --> 00:14:01,750 And it's this small supply of paper that I pass to David whilst he 150 00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:08,140 was undertaking his residency at Bodleian. 151 00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:13,360 And it's really at the end of his residency, he was doing other projects that he started to 152 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:18,460 play with it and play around with it, investing to gain what he could 153 00:14:18,460 --> 00:14:23,500 do with it. And it's exciting to see that this has been completed during 154 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:29,890 lockdown. I saw it virtually through Twitter. And luckily, 155 00:14:29,890 --> 00:14:35,050 a copy of the finished book has recently arrived through the press. But I'm going to pass 156 00:14:35,050 --> 00:14:41,350 over to David now and he'll explain more. 157 00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:47,550 OK. Thank you very much, Andrew. And thank you again as well for the paper. 158 00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:52,680 It was really interesting to work with it. I'll just give you a very quick introduction to 159 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,810 myself. I'm a visual artist and I work primarily with less press 160 00:14:57,810 --> 00:15:03,120 prints in language and geography. The scale 161 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:08,240 of the work that I produce ranges, I suppose, from small 162 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,350 artists, books of this kind of this kind of size, right up to large 163 00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:18,690 scale installations working with large rolls 164 00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:24,060 of paper that would originate been used in Web Web offset principally 165 00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:29,400 for this book. For this projects, I made a small 166 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,590 artist book, really for those of you that aren't familiar with artist books. 167 00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:40,890 A good couple of people to investigate research would be Johanna Drucker 168 00:15:40,890 --> 00:15:46,880 and Steven Barratry as well. Both have written a lot about our artists books, 169 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,950 a lot discussion about definitions and so on. But this is a small artist, this book that I produce. 170 00:15:51,950 --> 00:15:57,570 So what I'm gonna do is show you very briefly what I made. I'm going to demonstrate 171 00:15:57,570 --> 00:16:02,610 my press here because this is similar to the press in the Bodleian. Less for 172 00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:07,620 a studio. And then I'm going to talk in a bit more detail about the book itself and how 173 00:16:07,620 --> 00:16:12,870 I made it and how I use the paper. And I'm probably going to finish off just by explaining 174 00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:17,880 a few things about the residency at the body. And I did in a more general terms, because, like Andrew 175 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:23,310 said, this particular projects are works on right at the end of the residency. When I previously 176 00:16:23,310 --> 00:16:28,380 worked on a large scale project. So as you're seeing from from Andrew, 177 00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:33,390 this is the final final book I made to Cursus. I'll explain more about that in 178 00:16:33,390 --> 00:16:38,700 a moment. And it's a very simple book that uses the Oxford 179 00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:44,690 India paper. 180 00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:49,760 To build a kind of a topographical picture, if you like, I'll explain more about 181 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,940 the type I used and why. In a moment, one 182 00:16:54,940 --> 00:17:01,460 of the aspects of working with this paper is it's quite difficult to open. 183 00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:07,110 As Andrew said, it's only 25 GSM. 184 00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:14,740 So it's difficult to handle. So that's a quick look at the book itself. 185 00:17:14,740 --> 00:17:20,020 I'm going to demonstrate my press here because I don't know how well versed in less press 186 00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:25,090 printing the whole audience is. So I'm going to assume you have a general interest 187 00:17:25,090 --> 00:17:30,250 in print any books, but you may be don't know precisely aspects of this process. So just very 188 00:17:30,250 --> 00:17:35,440 briefly, with my teaching Hartsell, if I angle the screen, he should hopefully 189 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,450 be able to see in my studio here. The press that I use for a lot of 190 00:17:40,450 --> 00:17:46,330 my work here now, this is it's a cylinder proof press, 191 00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:51,420 very similar to the one at the Odlin, which is a Western model of undercook. Number 192 00:17:51,420 --> 00:17:56,840 four, Desprez is an icon built in Copenhagen 193 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:02,320 in Denmark in 1956. I'm working on the project actually at the moment. 194 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,600 That includes investigating the history of this press. And I've actually been to find out through records 195 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,670 from the Eickhoff company in Denmark where and when it was sold. It was 196 00:18:12,670 --> 00:18:17,710 sold in December 1956 to a printer in Copenhagen, less 197 00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:22,960 than a mile from the factory it was built in. And I went to the site factory last year 198 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,970 as part of this this project I'm currently working on. So it's a cylinder proof 199 00:18:27,970 --> 00:18:33,010 press where the type that you're using sits on a press bed, which is 200 00:18:33,010 --> 00:18:38,260 just here. And then the paper goes round the cylinder. An impression 201 00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:43,820 is taken from the type on that paper and then the paper is delivered 202 00:18:43,820 --> 00:18:54,920 out at the other end. So I'll just demo that very quickly. It's something I've got set up. I've been working on this morning. 203 00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,000 So the paper goes into the from the feed board here. This handle 204 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,190 unfolding here turns the cylinder and this presses slightly unusual in that the bed 205 00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:18,040 of the truss moves rather than the cylinder itself. 206 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,120 Papers delivered at the other end. All right, let's take a look around. 207 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:28,200 Reverse the handle. And the press bed goes back to 208 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:35,840 the other end. 209 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,950 Not saccharin. This is for a Danish products I'm currently working on. That 210 00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:51,850 is a book to celebrate the 17th anniversary of the Nordic Summer University says 1950 to 2020. 211 00:19:51,850 --> 00:19:58,980 So that's how printing works in this context, at least. 212 00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:04,170 OK, I'm going to explain what I used in the Bodleian 213 00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:09,330 studio to work with the Oxford India paper. Like I said, this 214 00:20:09,330 --> 00:20:15,000 is printed at the very end of the residency there. I always tried to leave a few days at the end of the residency 215 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,160 to work on something more spontaneous and more improvised, sometimes 216 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,290 using some of the materials that I saw in the studio but didn't 217 00:20:25,290 --> 00:20:30,450 get to use in the main projects. I made one of the things that I saw in the modelling studio 218 00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:36,000 were some damage type. Now let's verus type 219 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,280 is made of metal or of wood. There are some that are made of plastic and other pulp polymers, but mainly we're looking 220 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:47,130 at metal and wood type. And I mainly work with metal metal type. 221 00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:52,890 One thing that can happen with metal type is it can get damaged through being dropped, through 222 00:20:52,890 --> 00:20:57,900 overpressure, through leaving something on top of the press that the senator 223 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:02,910 hits while you're in the process of printing. All these various aspects 224 00:21:02,910 --> 00:21:07,920 of printing can damage time. I've got some type here from my studio that 225 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:13,080 is damaged not by me, but it's been damaged in a past life. And this 226 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,210 is similar to the type that used in the body. And for this curses book. 227 00:21:18,210 --> 00:21:23,250 I don't know how well we can see this, but I'm going to demonstrate to you now. OK, 228 00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:28,350 so this is a piece of seventy two point metal type. It's a K, you can 229 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:33,390 see that. But what's interesting about it is it has here. It has what's 230 00:21:33,390 --> 00:21:39,090 called a kearn. Now, Kurn is a piece of the actual type 231 00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:44,190 that overhangs the body. Okay, so this K here, if I hold it at this 232 00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:49,440 angle, you can see I gave it a plain background. This bit of the K here overhangs 233 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,900 the body and that bit at the time, the Kurn is frequently at risk of damage. 234 00:21:54,900 --> 00:22:00,640 So like this E here. The very top. Here, 235 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:06,130 the curtain itself has been smashed away. If I hold it next to an F, 236 00:22:06,130 --> 00:22:11,190 which has got the same the same component part of the type, you can see that 237 00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:17,380 the F is still complete and that the EU occur and it's being smashed off. So 238 00:22:17,380 --> 00:22:23,230 at the Bodleian, they have a case of caslen italic type. 239 00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:28,300 I think it was sixty point. And within that 240 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:33,520 case, there was a lot of smashed type. And I thought most of the time because 241 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,640 in the body and they produce books and they're talking about the history of print going back centuries 242 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:44,410 with the students. And they're often talking about fine print. 243 00:22:44,410 --> 00:22:49,630 And I thought, wouldn't it be nice to use this type that's partly broken instead 244 00:22:49,630 --> 00:22:54,850 of people ignoring it because it's broken and it won't. They want some of the right words. They won't look 245 00:22:54,850 --> 00:22:59,860 good. Why don't I take all of those neglected pieces of type and put them 246 00:22:59,860 --> 00:23:05,020 all into the same book? And so essentially, that's what that's what curses 247 00:23:05,020 --> 00:23:10,360 is. So on this page, the first page of the book, these are all the pieces, 248 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:15,680 the damage type that I found in the Bodleian. Let's press studio. OK. 249 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,800 They're turned on one side, obviously. So if I turn the book ninety degrees, you can see the actual 250 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,960 letterforms. OK, I've turned them that way because I wanted to see 251 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:31,870 them more as as symbols rather than letters that you might normally recognise. I've been 252 00:23:31,870 --> 00:23:37,090 trying to research lately a lot. I see Mick writing, which is literally writing without any semantic content 253 00:23:37,090 --> 00:23:43,300 or value. And this seemed to fit with that idea. 254 00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:48,520 So I'm going to show you. Rather than trying to do on screen now, I'm going to show you 255 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,620 some better quality photographs that I've taken. This is the technological part 256 00:23:53,620 --> 00:24:01,030 of the presentation. See if I can make it work. Share screen. 257 00:24:01,030 --> 00:24:06,030 OK. It looks to me like that's worked. Hopefully it has to this just so you can see the 258 00:24:06,030 --> 00:24:15,000 pages of the book a little better. 259 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,010 So what I did was I over printed all those broken pieces of stuff. I 260 00:24:20,010 --> 00:24:25,110 threw the book. So the first page there are six pages because that was the amount of paper 261 00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:30,120 I had to decide how to cut the paper up and draw. And he gave me five sheets. It's in short supply, so I 262 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:35,130 had to decide how to economically cut the paper. And so I ended up with with six 263 00:24:35,130 --> 00:24:40,410 pages, essentially that could be folded to make a reasonable quantity of these books. 264 00:24:40,410 --> 00:24:45,870 It's an addition of 15. So this six pages and the type 265 00:24:45,870 --> 00:24:50,880 is over printed one more printing at a time through the book. So page 266 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,010 one. Each character appears once. Page two. 267 00:24:56,010 --> 00:25:01,080 Each current set up is twice. I move the position of each character through the book. 268 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:07,590 So you have this gradual overprinting of the 269 00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:12,870 forms of the letters. The letter forms through the book as page three. Page four. They gradually 270 00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:18,720 start to get more dense and start to get more mixed. Page five. 271 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:24,270 And then page six, where they're moving so much amongst themselves that they. 272 00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:30,410 It's hard to tell that they're still letterforms. OK. 273 00:25:30,410 --> 00:25:35,950 Just some close ups as well. One of the 274 00:25:35,950 --> 00:25:41,020 aspects of Princeton on this this paper, it's incredible stuff to 275 00:25:41,020 --> 00:25:46,180 work with because it's it's very thin. Twenty five GSM. So it's very 276 00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:51,730 difficult to handle. You saw me earlier struggling to open the pages of the book. 277 00:25:51,730 --> 00:25:56,770 It feels very precious and delicate to handle, which I like 278 00:25:56,770 --> 00:26:01,990 the fit there with the fact that it was often used for printing Bibles and so the sacred nature 279 00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:07,450 of certain texts. That's interesting. The care that you have to handle handler with 280 00:26:07,450 --> 00:26:12,670 another interesting factories in less suppress printing these days, always being. 281 00:26:12,670 --> 00:26:17,740 Well, there is currently more recently a debate around the amount of pressure that one should use to 282 00:26:17,740 --> 00:26:23,260 print with whether or not you should try and print just the kiss impression, which traditionally 283 00:26:23,260 --> 00:26:28,420 was the way that you should have printed, or whether people like the kind of 284 00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:33,520 decompression that you get with wedding invitations or business cards these days. And there's this 285 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,560 debate around it. I'm not going to go into that. You can look at it. But using this paper, 286 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,780 I really could only print with the KISS impression because 287 00:26:43,780 --> 00:26:48,820 it's so thin you can't print it any deeper impression. People who do wedding invitations, 288 00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:54,550 business cards are printing on 200 GSM upwards 300 GSM. So it's really thick cardboard 289 00:26:54,550 --> 00:26:59,950 that you can print into. You can't do that with this paper that you have to be careful and delicate with it. 290 00:26:59,950 --> 00:27:05,200 And you also have to be careful and delicate in the way I use the press just then in feeding the paper 291 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,270 round the cylinder, because it quite easily wafts away and wafts around and you can end 292 00:27:10,270 --> 00:27:15,280 up with a mangled piece of paper somewhere attached between your ink and your type. And a 293 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:21,570 great big mess. So you have to be very careful handling it. 294 00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:26,670 These final ones are just some scans, so they're just they're just higher resolution images. The lines that you 295 00:27:26,670 --> 00:27:31,740 can see in the paper that maybe some people would say, you 296 00:27:31,740 --> 00:27:36,900 know, you they should be regexp pages. All the sheets were a bit like that because like Andrew said, 297 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:41,940 they were very old. They've been in storage for a long time. They all have some marks of having been in storage. So 298 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:48,450 there's these lines across the paper. I don't mind about that. That's fine for me. 299 00:27:48,450 --> 00:27:53,720 And I also like the opacity, see? You can see there that because 300 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,760 the the amount of density of an image builds up through the book. You can actually 301 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,970 see some of the type coming through from the back of the previous page. In the early 302 00:28:03,970 --> 00:28:09,040 pages. There's much less of that, but gradually as you build up, you 303 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:14,050 can see a little bit more that the opacity of this paper is fascinating because you would have wanted to print 304 00:28:14,050 --> 00:28:19,180 on both sides of the paper. And you've been wanting to read both sides of the paper. If you were Princeton, you know, 305 00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:27,760 a Bible, for example. So that's some closer images of the work itself. 306 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,830 I don't know if I have too much more to say, but actual book, because Andrew and I are going to come back and have a conversation. But I also thought 307 00:28:32,830 --> 00:28:37,840 it might be useful if I just wrap up my part of this presentation by showing you the main piece 308 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:43,420 of work I made as Prince or residents of the Bodleian. I was there for a month in total 309 00:28:43,420 --> 00:28:48,670 and the Kirsty's book only took it last, took three days of my my time there. And then I bounded 310 00:28:48,670 --> 00:28:54,280 back in my studio here. But the main project I came to the body in2 to print 311 00:28:54,280 --> 00:29:02,200 resulted in this print. She's caught between some turns. It's part of a series 312 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:08,620 of what I'm calling the moment text landscapes. It's the fourth in the series and they're all made on residencies 313 00:29:08,620 --> 00:29:13,630 and they are made in response to a place or landscape. What's found? There 314 00:29:13,630 --> 00:29:18,920 are a work block with oral histories and conversations 315 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,120 and signage. Research into 316 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,190 that place. Photographs, all the aspects of the place I draw 317 00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:34,470 on to produce a piece of work. So this is the final print. It's about 318 00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:39,480 15 runs through the press. So there's an added amount of layering and colours 319 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:45,930 that go on there to create this. This overall effects. And it's made through the process, if you like. 320 00:29:45,930 --> 00:29:52,250 One of my one of the artists I'm most interested in is work with Ken Campbell. 321 00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:57,330 He makes artist books and he talks about finding the form of the 322 00:29:57,330 --> 00:30:03,240 book through the process. And on the bed of the press. So 323 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,670 that makes sense to me in the way that I work. And I find that the form of this 324 00:30:08,670 --> 00:30:13,950 this work through the process. So I don't know what it's going to look like at the end. 325 00:30:13,950 --> 00:30:19,340 I only know a rough shape or form from sketches that I make beforehand. 326 00:30:19,340 --> 00:30:25,240 But each layer I put down in the print influences the next one. 327 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:33,990 This is the kind of research that I would do on a project like this. This was a map exhibition at the Bodleian when I was there. 328 00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:39,560 And I take a lot of photographs and walking around the city and I'm looking at I guess I'm looking at shape 329 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:51,240 or colour form textures. 330 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,590 And aspects of all of these work into the final print. Oh, 331 00:30:56,590 --> 00:31:01,860 that's useful. That's an image of the Kirsty's book being printed on the press. 332 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:06,950 It shows you that the press, the press in the body and studio similar to mine. So this is how 333 00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:12,590 I work on a project like this with a notebook full of research, conversations, 334 00:31:12,590 --> 00:31:18,270 oral histories, gradually working together. While I'm setting the type. 335 00:31:18,270 --> 00:31:24,240 That's the better the press a couple of shots about. 336 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,480 And this shows a little bit when at some point through the process, how I reached 337 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,530 the next stage. Each time I might prove Prince. New elements that 338 00:31:34,530 --> 00:31:39,610 I've been working on and then cut them up. And arrange them on 339 00:31:39,610 --> 00:31:49,550 the layers of the print, they've already been made to work out where the next layer should go. 340 00:31:49,550 --> 00:31:55,040 And this is number four in that process. And I'm hoping after lockdown 341 00:31:55,040 --> 00:32:00,380 finishes and we could be looking at twenty, twenty one now that I'll be moving on to the next the next residency 342 00:32:00,380 --> 00:32:06,560 projects that will result in the next iteration of this Sprint series. 343 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:12,440 And I think. That's everything that I had to say in my presentation. 344 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,660 That leaves you with that final piece of work. And I think Andrew is going to come back in now and we'll have 345 00:32:17,660 --> 00:32:22,670 a conversation. And he'll also talk about some of the other Frances residents who use 346 00:32:22,670 --> 00:32:28,020 this same type of. 347 00:32:28,020 --> 00:32:33,360 Thank you, David. That's fascinating. Fascinating to see. Well, to remember back to last 348 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,400 November, that seems such a long time ago now look. But 349 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,650 extraordinary to see you sort of wrestling and thinking 350 00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:48,690 around this paper. I mean, I when I first found it in our store room, I 351 00:32:48,690 --> 00:32:53,860 sort of like. Our first thought was, you know, this is 352 00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:59,070 the important stuff, we ought to keep hold of it and look after it, and it's only now I'm realising 353 00:32:59,070 --> 00:33:04,080 we've got something like 50 sheets of it that slowly it's interesting to see 354 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,630 how people and how, you know, those that are 355 00:33:09,630 --> 00:33:15,030 have a kind of working knowledge of printing, how they might respond to it. 356 00:33:15,030 --> 00:33:20,880 So I'm going to come back to you and ask you a bit in a moment how actually using it might 357 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,890 affect your work in future. But before I do that, I want to just show you share a 358 00:33:25,890 --> 00:33:32,340 couple of photos with with others on some work by Emily Martin. 359 00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:38,520 Emily was the printer in residence in 2018, 360 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,950 and I did the same thing. I sort of snuck a few sheets of this paper to her 361 00:33:43,950 --> 00:33:49,140 towards the end of her residency. She took it back with her to Iowa and 362 00:33:49,140 --> 00:33:54,570 produced a small book and then luckily sent me a copy. 363 00:33:54,570 --> 00:34:04,870 But if I can just show you a couple of photos. 364 00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:09,870 So not my egg cups again, but actually. So here is the book. And she 365 00:34:09,870 --> 00:34:15,540 called it crosswords. And it's again, it's a small artists book. 366 00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:20,550 And let me just show you a couple of things. So that's the the first opening from it. She's also 367 00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:27,000 using end leaves, which is a form of ham, a paper that that I passed on to her. 368 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,850 And then his picture of the cover. And 369 00:34:32,850 --> 00:34:39,000 her description of the process. And what she was doing with it. 370 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,370 And I think Alex is going to put some some links in the chat. If you go to Emily's 371 00:34:44,370 --> 00:34:51,650 Instagram and website, it explains more about its. 372 00:34:51,650 --> 00:34:57,020 And then very. Yeah. 373 00:34:57,020 --> 00:35:02,450 One of the final openings of it, and it's interesting that Emily was 374 00:35:02,450 --> 00:35:07,490 was using it almost like a Chinese book, printing on a double leaf. So it folded 375 00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:12,710 in again, questions around thickness and ease of using 376 00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:17,810 it. And can I just add what I was asking whether she would 377 00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:22,910 be happy for me, chef? Photos with a switch, which she was. She also wrote 378 00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:29,420 something very interesting in the email that came back to me. And I'll just read it out to you now. 379 00:35:29,420 --> 00:35:34,790 I've I've had crosswords on my work table where I see it regularly since I finished 380 00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:39,920 it. She writes, The paper is so specific, thin, strong, 381 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,890 opaque. It was not nearly as hard to print on as I thought before I started. 382 00:35:45,890 --> 00:35:51,050 My main issue was the static electricity would hold it to the timpani. And I had 383 00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:56,330 to be careful when removing it. I think I would handle it differently, using 384 00:35:56,330 --> 00:36:01,340 it again. Having used it once. I'm not sure I took full advantage 385 00:36:01,340 --> 00:36:06,410 of all its qualities. I doubled the sheets with French phones in the book to get more heft to 386 00:36:06,410 --> 00:36:11,840 the pages. Even in that little book, I didn't quite grasp how opaque 387 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,060 the paper was. It's interesting. This is another comment you've come 388 00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:22,250 mentioned. She ends by saying, I thought I needed to compensate for the size 389 00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:27,960 and blackness of the type I was using. 390 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,240 So with. Emily Martin's 391 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:38,550 thoughts bringing Arias. Can I ask the same sort of questions to you? I mean, 392 00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:44,630 having used it once now, do you think it will affect how you print in future? 393 00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:51,450 And if you which you use it again? Are there things you'd like to investigate further? 394 00:36:51,450 --> 00:36:57,680 I mean, might it prompts you to work differently? 395 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,690 Yeah, I think so. It was a couple of people just looking, the Q and I commented in 396 00:37:02,690 --> 00:37:07,700 there about their approach using this kind of paper. I think it was a prince who was talking 397 00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:12,710 about using elevon GSM paper. 398 00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:17,750 Emily mentioned, as you said, that Emily Martin said that she didn't 399 00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:23,180 find it difficult to work with the she thought she might find it. Which is interesting. 400 00:37:23,180 --> 00:37:28,220 I've never worked on anything this thing, and I've never really used Japanese papers in much of my work, 401 00:37:28,220 --> 00:37:33,350 for example. So for me, I was really cautious about using it because I didn't 402 00:37:33,350 --> 00:37:38,690 know how I would handle it. It slowed the process 403 00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:43,870 down. I mean, letter press is known to be reasonably slow process anyway, 404 00:37:43,870 --> 00:37:48,920 but it slowed the process down even further because I knew that there was 405 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:55,730 a risk of the static risk of it, of it holding it simple and not not being released. 406 00:37:55,730 --> 00:38:02,210 I didn't quite know what it would do when it hit the type. I think that if you 407 00:38:02,210 --> 00:38:08,600 Caslon I'd used has quite a relative is quite thin, 408 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,670 thin stroke and typeface. So there's more natural, positive area. Your printing 409 00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:19,010 is very small in comparison to the negative area. That's not printing. I think if you tried to print this, 410 00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:24,470 I don't know how it would work if you tried to print wouldn't type. With this, I've got a piece of wood 411 00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:29,480 around here. It has a much larger surface area. Just looking around 412 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:36,290 my studio to see what I've got. 413 00:38:36,290 --> 00:38:41,480 So this is a piece of wood type. And as you can hopefully see, natural surface area 414 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,520 is much greater than a piece of metal type. So the honest answer to 415 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,710 that question is, I don't know what that would do. I'd be worried that as you printed as the paper hit 416 00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:56,900 the pipe, it would just stick. There's that risk. So be careful with the amount 417 00:38:56,900 --> 00:39:02,460 of ink years or more care than you would normally use. Perhaps 418 00:39:02,460 --> 00:39:08,190 is part the part of that process. I've been 419 00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:13,200 because of lockdown. I haven't ordered any more of this toxic paper. I've been looking at where I can 420 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,240 order it from in the UK. You think, Shepherd, it's up some in stock, but I've been 421 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:23,340 wary of ordering anything during jury lockdown. But once we a little further down the 422 00:39:23,340 --> 00:39:29,100 line, I'm going to order the biggest stock of this paper and work with it some more. 423 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:34,260 It was great to get those five sheets from you, but I was 424 00:39:34,260 --> 00:39:39,390 I was really keen that there was some outcome from using those sheets that I didn't basically didn't mess them all 425 00:39:39,390 --> 00:39:44,610 up, basically with lots of experiments that might have been useful 426 00:39:44,610 --> 00:39:49,740 and interesting, but would have resulted in a great big massive on the floor of the end. 427 00:39:49,740 --> 00:39:54,810 So I guess I went I was cautious with it. I wanted to do something that was a finished piece of work 428 00:39:54,810 --> 00:39:59,880 at the end. So I think if I have next time around, I use it. I will be a lot more 429 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:05,010 experimental with it and see how it handles on different conditions. A lot 430 00:40:05,010 --> 00:40:10,230 of a B testing around like what if I use, you know, this much? What if I use this much pressure? 431 00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:15,660 What if I use this wood type? How does it handling the different conditions? 432 00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:20,870 I want to do a lot of looking at that. And 433 00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:26,120 I think a lot of my work involves involves overprinting and layering. So that's another 434 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:32,270 aspect that I'd want to test. This was an interesting test because the last page of the book lays up six 435 00:40:32,270 --> 00:40:37,430 overprinting of ink. And by the end, there were some characters that were not not 436 00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:42,590 coming out perfectly. I think you've had more time. I would have tried to correct some of those issues, 437 00:40:42,590 --> 00:40:47,710 but that's OK. To me, it was an experimental part of the process. 438 00:40:47,710 --> 00:40:53,090 Well, I'd be interested to see what what happens with multiple over principles through the process, because obviously 439 00:40:53,090 --> 00:40:58,340 it's I'm presuming that it's original intention would have been that it's for printing 440 00:40:58,340 --> 00:41:03,470 on books. So each printing is nothing over printed. If you like, in that 441 00:41:03,470 --> 00:41:08,660 way, there's just one printing on each side of the page. So overprinting is something I'd be really interested 442 00:41:08,660 --> 00:41:13,970 to try with it and see what what happens through the process of 443 00:41:13,970 --> 00:41:19,160 drawing. Time is always an issue when you over print because you're printing ink onto ink rather than ink 444 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:24,290 onto paper. So that affects it as well. That's a long answer 445 00:41:24,290 --> 00:41:29,600 to your question, but I want more time and more paper to experiment further. Okay. When 446 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,640 once lockdown's over. We'll have to go back and see. I must at some 447 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,920 point count what we've got. I mean, a lot of it's wrinkled, a lot of it. It's been kicking around in a basement 448 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,680 for a long time. But perhaps perhaps now it's time to bring back home Alex. 449 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:51,830 And yes, shall we get to that? And in fact, there's a 450 00:41:51,830 --> 00:41:56,840 lot of questions from our participants. Thank you all very much. And we have just a few minutes for 451 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:02,030 those and then we will switch off. So let's try to get theirs and maybe first 452 00:42:02,030 --> 00:42:07,210 of all, to go back to David with us. 453 00:42:07,210 --> 00:42:12,470 So a question about your process, which really takes off from that. We've been hearing by definition, 454 00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:19,160 there is a limited supply of this paper and you were given a very restricted supply by Andrew. 455 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:27,140 Did you have any chance to experiment or was it did you have to get it right from the very beginning? 456 00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:32,240 I guess I was experimenting within a box, if you like. I 457 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:37,490 quite like I worked quite well with boundaries with like, OK, this is what 458 00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:42,740 we're going to work with. This is the size of the paper. These are the colours. This is the amount of time to work 459 00:42:42,740 --> 00:42:47,840 with. Let's see what we can do within that within that process. So it was it was 460 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:53,300 an experiment for me because I'd not used this paper 461 00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:58,340 before to see what I could do within the context of a certain size that 462 00:42:58,340 --> 00:43:04,830 I had to work to because I had to cut these five large sheets down. 463 00:43:04,830 --> 00:43:10,590 That's the size I've got to work with. This is the amount of time I've got to work with like that was 464 00:43:10,590 --> 00:43:15,750 those were just finding a page again. Those were the only LACHSA 465 00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:20,790 forms that I was working with. Those were the ones that were broken in the case. So there's nothing more to work with. So I like 466 00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:25,950 setting up that as an arbitrary rule as well. Like, I'm going to work with all 467 00:43:25,950 --> 00:43:30,960 of the broken side in this case. Okay. It's, you know, thirty five sorts, however 468 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,030 many it might be. That's what I'm gonna do with that. I think 469 00:43:36,030 --> 00:43:41,310 in general, I'm slightly wary of the word experimental because it it it's 470 00:43:41,310 --> 00:43:46,350 it's so dependent on context and so dependent on where you're at. As 471 00:43:46,350 --> 00:43:51,390 an artist. As a producer. So things that you might think 472 00:43:51,390 --> 00:43:56,400 of yourself as experimental, somebody 50 years ago or 200 473 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:01,770 years ago might have already done that. And so I'm conscious of looking back at that history to see what's 474 00:44:01,770 --> 00:44:06,840 been done already and what can be learnt from and not thinking of it all. As you know, I'm on 475 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:15,580 some grand experimental journey, so something might be an experiment for me. But that's different from saying it's experimental 476 00:44:15,580 --> 00:44:21,720 in. There are a couple of questions, a set of technical questions and historical questions about the paper 477 00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:26,730 itself. And maybe this is for Andrew. Can you tell if there's a filler like 478 00:44:26,730 --> 00:44:32,070 Kaylin or calcium to increase the capacity of this India paper? We commonly 479 00:44:32,070 --> 00:44:37,270 used the idea of English finish paper for packing in the US, very 480 00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:42,480 heavy, heavily calendared smooth paper. How would that compare to these? This 481 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,600 is India paper, so-called. Well, I can 482 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:52,760 answer to what earlier questions with that before, which was a question about it has more been written about 483 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:57,910 it since Harry Carter's book. And I've put another reference in the chart. 484 00:44:57,910 --> 00:45:03,050 There's a conference paper from nineteen ninety six on it. No, I don't think 485 00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:08,150 there is a filler there. It's apparently the the actual recipe was 486 00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:13,760 a closely guarded secret, partly between AUP and 487 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:19,010 and. They talk about there being 488 00:45:19,010 --> 00:45:24,050 rope used as the main source of the furnish. So it's a 489 00:45:24,050 --> 00:45:29,360 good quality sort of ham or, or flax 490 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:35,600 fibre within it. But no, to get that extraordinary Raffel and the thinness and the opacity, 491 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,610 I'm not sure you don't see the same sort of filler that you do with, say, a coated 492 00:45:40,610 --> 00:45:45,830 art stock. But I don't entirely know, really. 493 00:45:45,830 --> 00:45:51,890 And I presume the paper would have changed slightly over the years. It's interesting. My 1943 494 00:45:51,890 --> 00:45:56,900 copy is beautifully. I mean, it's kept it's it's not browned or anything around 495 00:45:56,900 --> 00:46:01,920 the edges. It's it's in pretty good condition. Whereas and again, 496 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:08,000 that's what we have in the storeroom. I don't know quite how old it is. I 497 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:13,070 sort of 20th century some time, but who knows. I don't quite know. That doesn't really answer any of 498 00:46:13,070 --> 00:46:18,680 those questions. OK. Well, another quick one then for you, Andrew, and then back 499 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,750 to David for another one. The India paper that one finds 500 00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:29,420 used in printed intagliata plates and lithographic stands, especially in the 1920s 501 00:46:29,420 --> 00:46:34,890 and 1930s. Was that the same paper later described as Oxford India paper? 502 00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:40,310 Oh, this is interesting question. I was checking on the OED this morning for 503 00:46:40,310 --> 00:46:45,470 the first use in English of the first recorded Use for India paper. 504 00:46:45,470 --> 00:46:50,480 And they put it back to the mid 18th century. Talking 505 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:56,220 about it being used to sort of fine impressions of engravings or etchings. 506 00:46:56,220 --> 00:47:02,510 And we know that the print makers came right back to Rembrandt, were experimenting with 507 00:47:02,510 --> 00:47:07,760 imported papers, mainly from Japan. 508 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,860 And then in the early 19th century, is India proof the OED gives it? I think 509 00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:18,320 1812 is the first use is is a type of of entangling 510 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:23,600 printing where your layering Chinese paper onto a wove paper to get 511 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:28,670 a better quality impression. So I think, oh, you is just harking back to 512 00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:34,850 that term. Indian is referring to sort of India proof paper. But it's a different thing. 513 00:47:34,850 --> 00:47:40,130 And then, of course, would engravers often use Chinese 514 00:47:40,130 --> 00:47:45,170 paper, especially for proofs and to cheque their work because of this? 515 00:47:45,170 --> 00:47:51,030 A fantastic smooth finish, opacity and thinness, the ability to take detail 516 00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:57,690 and I think would engravers still do? We have Peter Lawrence 517 00:47:57,690 --> 00:48:03,020 in bodily last year. And as a printing demonstration, him and he was printing 518 00:48:03,020 --> 00:48:08,420 on Chinese paper. So, yeah, I think that's a different thing. But I think, oh, you are harking back 519 00:48:08,420 --> 00:48:13,440 to to those older papers. Finally, Andrew, just one thing, 520 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:18,920 a reference. Has anything more been written about the paper since 521 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:24,050 Carter's? Yes, there's a 1996 conference paper. 522 00:48:24,050 --> 00:48:29,180 And that's in that the reference in the chap now. Yeah, that's why he phoned him. 523 00:48:29,180 --> 00:48:34,350 He was the archivist. OK. I'll add that again to the chair. 524 00:48:34,350 --> 00:48:39,450 David, a couple of technical questions for you. And then also a question about working. So 525 00:48:39,450 --> 00:48:44,870 all of the technical questions were, do you need to use tack reducer? 526 00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:50,600 And how fast does this paper absorb ink as compared to thicker paper? 527 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:57,060 Right. OK. No, I didn't use any tax reduced to 528 00:48:57,060 --> 00:49:02,450 the flacking that I used. I forget the source of it. Richard Lawrence 529 00:49:02,450 --> 00:49:07,640 would know, but. It was fairly stiff already 530 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:12,850 the. So once I started working with it a little bit, it moved just enough and it wasn't 531 00:49:12,850 --> 00:49:18,220 it wasn't too running. And the question about drying time. Yeah. 532 00:49:18,220 --> 00:49:23,350 Well, this is always a hard question to answer because it depends on so 533 00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:29,080 many factors drawing. I'm like the amount of ink you use, the amount of pressure you use, the 534 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:34,540 surface of the paper, the environment that you're actually printing it in, leaving 535 00:49:34,540 --> 00:49:40,330 the printed sheets in. So because of the because of the Butlin's collection, 536 00:49:40,330 --> 00:49:45,460 as I understand this, the temperatures kept quite warm 537 00:49:45,460 --> 00:49:50,590 anyway in all of the buildings. So the actual studio I was printing 538 00:49:50,590 --> 00:49:55,780 and leaving these, you know, the sheets up in on it on a drying rack like mine here was quite warm 539 00:49:55,780 --> 00:50:01,210 already. So it dried that sped up the drawing time. That's a particularly hot room, I have to say. 540 00:50:01,210 --> 00:50:06,370 Yeah, that's something that I had when it was November and December. I was there. I always had all the windows 541 00:50:06,370 --> 00:50:11,380 open. I mean, I'm from the north of England, so I like it cooler anyway. But it was you know, it was 542 00:50:11,380 --> 00:50:16,390 hot. But the paper itself, it doesn't 543 00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:21,520 have anything. It doesn't have the kind of texture that the ink can sink into. 544 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,590 It's all it's almost like being sits just on the surface of the paper. So 545 00:50:26,590 --> 00:50:31,950 that would, as far as I understand, paper that would that would increase the drawings. I'm a little 546 00:50:31,950 --> 00:50:37,300 bit like I said, that was kind of offset by how hot the studio was anyway. So that sped 547 00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:42,520 up the drawing time. I was really cautious about it. I thought I actually thought it probably wouldn't 548 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:48,300 dry in time for me to transport it all home. But it was it was OK. OK. 549 00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:53,470 And a lot of nice questions and comments and people talking about how they use 550 00:50:53,470 --> 00:50:59,380 this. We have a note that the people Jacque peppier can still be ordered by the 551 00:50:59,380 --> 00:51:04,600 Corinto participants. So that's good to know. And finally, one 552 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:10,000 more question for Andrew and then I think one more for David. A 553 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,060 participant says, I have Bibles here on papers such as you describe with anything similar produced in the 554 00:51:15,060 --> 00:51:22,430 US, or was Staffordshire the only source for it? 555 00:51:22,430 --> 00:51:29,050 So you're muted. Andrew, say, 556 00:51:29,050 --> 00:51:34,390 I think that similar paper. Yes. Was produced elsewhere. In fact, I've got 557 00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:40,220 an Alex Cohen sample book over there that goes through many sort of 558 00:51:40,220 --> 00:51:45,460 thing. So the bank papers and Bible papers and so 559 00:51:45,460 --> 00:51:50,600 on. I think after the success of AP from eighteen seventy 560 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,870 five onwards, they were very keen to keep 561 00:51:55,870 --> 00:52:02,170 their exact recipe of paper to themselves. They certainly sold paper. 562 00:52:02,170 --> 00:52:07,360 They acted as a merchant for the paper to others, other printers 563 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:12,520 and then yes, other paper makers produced similar papers. And then if you think of those kind of copying 564 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:20,490 papers as well, I mean, those those very fine. Same ones, I mean. 565 00:52:20,490 --> 00:52:25,680 I mean, the various bits of paper that I picked up over the years to be massive part 566 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:30,890 of. And I think you need following 567 00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:37,560 because I think it's a slightly thicker paper. It doesn't have the watermark. And then again, 568 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:42,570 it's I found some French textbooks wrapped up in. And again, it's 569 00:52:42,570 --> 00:52:47,970 a dictionary paper. Again, it's that same sort of thing thing, but it's not quite as thin 570 00:52:47,970 --> 00:52:53,190 as lightweight as a. I don't think they quite make the same thing. 571 00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:58,260 And it's probably to do with source of fine print. So. And 572 00:52:58,260 --> 00:53:03,270 then shall we go to David? David, a question for you. You talked a bit about your 573 00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:08,400 project. Their main project that you were doing between some 574 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,950 turns. Were there other projects happening in Ops, Federer, other collections, 575 00:53:13,950 --> 00:53:19,200 inspiration you got from the collections while you were in Oxford? Yeah. 576 00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,210 So one of the images that I showed in kind of research that I did during the residency was that the 577 00:53:24,210 --> 00:53:29,220 Maps exhibition, I can't remember the official title exhibition. What 578 00:53:29,220 --> 00:53:34,290 was it? Talking. Talking maps. It was called Talk. I'll put up a link 579 00:53:34,290 --> 00:53:39,480 to it. Right. Thank you. Yeah. That was a great exhibition. That was the 580 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:45,360 main exhibition I saw there that really influenced the work. 581 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:50,370 I have a background in geography. It was my my favourite subjects at 582 00:53:50,370 --> 00:53:56,760 school and I studied it, studied it at university as well. Way back. 583 00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:01,890 Human geography in particular, rather than physical geography. So I am interested in how 584 00:54:01,890 --> 00:54:07,990 the land and also our situation influences our lives, how we move, 585 00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:13,080 you know, how we understand the world around us. So that's pretty much what for me. Human geography 586 00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:18,360 is all about. So that Maps exhibition was a great introduction. I saw that on the first day I was there 587 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:23,430 to some aspects of the history of the city and particularly 588 00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:28,440 the the physical landscape and its relationships 589 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:33,510 of water and flood. You could probably see maybe if I 590 00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:40,260 bring it back to the image of the work itself. 591 00:54:40,260 --> 00:54:45,470 Yes. So you can see that lack of a line that goes through 592 00:54:45,470 --> 00:54:50,570 the middle the curve line. That was for me thinking from 593 00:54:50,570 --> 00:54:57,450 that exhibition that showed maps of the city of Oxford when it was just a small settlement. 594 00:54:57,450 --> 00:55:03,230 Just the extent of the influence of the landscape and where the water 595 00:55:03,230 --> 00:55:08,240 cuts through the city. And then thinking fast forwarding through to now and thinking about how 596 00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:13,370 that how the water and the water underneath our cities, underneath 597 00:55:13,370 --> 00:55:18,590 our feet influences the way that we experience a place and the risk, 598 00:55:18,590 --> 00:55:23,600 I suppose, attached to that as well. Constant risk of of water and flooding 599 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,700 is something that I'm really conscious of. I live in Coledale and these people will have seen on the news, lots 600 00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:33,830 of towns around here flooding on a more frequent basis. That's another debate that 601 00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:40,280 you can research and get into about why that happens. But the aspects of water, so that kind of flow 602 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:45,620 through the print, which kind of for me comes to define the the 603 00:55:45,620 --> 00:55:51,410 a lot of the layout of the print. Came from that Max exhibition. 604 00:55:51,410 --> 00:55:56,480 That's that that whole exhibition was a big influence. And I think the other the 605 00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:01,690 other research that I did within the body in itself was mainly around people's research 606 00:56:01,690 --> 00:56:07,780 writing. So I read a lot of Johanna Drucker's work while I was there. I mean, I was familiar with her work anyway, but 607 00:56:07,780 --> 00:56:12,790 the BOSELEY has a really good collection of her writings. So that was the main. She was 608 00:56:12,790 --> 00:56:17,950 the main person. I looked up in a more conceptual framework, I suppose, 609 00:56:17,950 --> 00:56:23,080 for for situates in my work. Right. 610 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:28,330 I think where we're nearly at the end. If either of you seen a question. 611 00:56:28,330 --> 00:56:33,790 Yes. David. Oh, you're muted still say there was there was two other questions. 612 00:56:33,790 --> 00:56:38,910 Yeah. I just know it's now very likely they're related. 613 00:56:38,910 --> 00:56:44,010 Somebody asked about materials. Yes. They asked about using 614 00:56:44,010 --> 00:56:49,140 this paper. This is Oxford, India paper. Whether or not I wanted to 615 00:56:49,140 --> 00:56:54,250 show whether how insightful the paper was, I think to the to the to the work. 616 00:56:54,250 --> 00:56:59,400 And the really quick, easy answer to that is the materials are vital 617 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:04,730 in this process. I think material material is vital in most processes and 618 00:57:04,730 --> 00:57:10,410 in most artworks to some degree, but certainly for me, yes. 619 00:57:10,410 --> 00:57:15,540 The less first printing can be incredibly complicated if you choose to 620 00:57:15,540 --> 00:57:20,760 go that way. And there's a multitude of extremely fine princes I like whose work 621 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:26,010 I admire a great deal. It can also be very quick as well, because in essence, 622 00:57:26,010 --> 00:57:31,170 it's a simple process where you have a surface release surface. You could put ink on it. 623 00:57:31,170 --> 00:57:36,670 You press paper against that. In that way, it's quite simple. So materials 624 00:57:36,670 --> 00:57:41,830 are always something that I'm working with and thinking about, and the paper is not 625 00:57:41,830 --> 00:57:47,140 a passive part of this process. I'm not seeing the paper in any of my work is just something 626 00:57:47,140 --> 00:57:52,300 to put the important things. The words, the imagery onto 627 00:57:52,300 --> 00:57:57,490 the paper has an integral part and integral role to play in that process, because 628 00:57:57,490 --> 00:58:02,860 a lot of my work is about negative space. There's a lot of graphic designers I'm really interested in 629 00:58:02,860 --> 00:58:08,020 and a common theme in all of all of that research I do is a use of negative 630 00:58:08,020 --> 00:58:13,210 space that when you when you put a word, a piece of imagery there, you also 631 00:58:13,210 --> 00:58:27,370 have all this negative space where it isn't. And so that's all active. It's not inactive. 632 00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:32,380 That's a great way to think about paper and what we've been talking about today and the 633 00:58:32,380 --> 00:58:37,750 importance of that. Thank you, David, for your active use of the paper. 634 00:58:37,750 --> 00:58:43,120 Thank you, Andrew, for unearthing the paper and bringing it back from history 635 00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:48,400 for us. Thank you to all our participants and all your great questions. We've only 636 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:53,650 had time to answer some of them, but you keep them 637 00:58:53,650 --> 00:58:59,860 do right in. Look at the father in bibliographical press web pages 638 00:58:59,860 --> 00:59:05,020 and you will see links and contacts. I'll put my 639 00:59:05,020 --> 00:59:19,310 email in the chat. 640 00:59:19,310 --> 00:59:25,973 Goodbye, everyone. Thank you.