1 00:00:57,690 --> 00:01:06,630 Hello and welcome to Big Tent. Live Events Live Online event series from the University of Oxford as part of the Humanities Cultural Programme. 2 00:01:06,630 --> 00:01:11,580 One of the founding stones for the future, Stephen Schwarzman Centre for the Humanities. 3 00:01:11,580 --> 00:01:17,460 My name is Vicki McGuinness and I'm head of cultural programming and Partnerships at the University of Oxford. 4 00:01:17,460 --> 00:01:24,480 Big tent live events brings together researchers, students and artists from across different disciplines and perspectives. 5 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:32,430 In this series, we will explore together some of humanity's important subjects and ask questions on areas such as environment, medical, 6 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:42,620 humanities, alien technology, history of disease, as well as celebrating storytelling, music, performance and what it means to be human. 7 00:01:42,620 --> 00:01:48,650 Everyone is welcome in our big tent and we welcome you as we explore big ideas together. 8 00:01:48,650 --> 00:01:54,440 We thank our viewers for their ongoing support and for all of the participants as part of this series. 9 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,540 They have given their time, their words and their big ideas as we come together online. 10 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:04,820 This series would not be possible without the support from so many people on and off screen. 11 00:02:04,820 --> 00:02:12,260 So thank you. We're bringing you this event programme live and online, why we're all keeping our distance at home. 12 00:02:12,260 --> 00:02:14,940 We hope that you're all safe and well during this difficult time. 13 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:21,380 And we look forward to seeing you again soon in person at our future events as part of the humanities cultural programme. 14 00:02:21,380 --> 00:02:26,080 For our audience today, if you'd like to put forward any questions to our speakers during the event, 15 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,750 please write them down in the comments on YouTube. 16 00:02:28,750 --> 00:02:36,220 We encourage you to submit these early so that we've got enough time to answer as many as we can in the audience Q&A section at the end of the events. 17 00:02:36,220 --> 00:02:41,890 I know that we've got some questions already from the Young Women's Music Project. So thank you very much for sending those in advance. 18 00:02:41,890 --> 00:02:50,700 So get your questions in now. Now onto our speakers in conversation with Jamelia today, we have two brilliant researchers. 19 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:57,040 It is an honour to host and welcome Dr. Yvonne Lough and Dr. PRIO Atwell. 20 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:03,580 Dr. Yvonne Liow is leave a huge early career research fellow in the music faculty at the University of Oxford. 21 00:03:03,580 --> 00:03:09,670 Yvonne is a music historian and also has worked at Naxos Records and Universal Music, Hong Kong. 22 00:03:09,670 --> 00:03:17,410 In addition to being a member of the Torch Management Committee, Yvonne has also co-founded the Colonial Ports and Global Histories Network. 23 00:03:17,410 --> 00:03:24,880 Dr. Prieur Apple is a historian and a teaching fellow in modern South Asian history at King's College, London. 24 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:32,080 Priya has a lot of experience working in the areas of public engagement, museums, heritage and university outreach, 25 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:39,600 as well as her research on Queen Victoria and most recently appearing as part of the BBC for documentary The Stolen Maharajah. 26 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:44,920 Hello, Yvonne and Preta. Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining us today. 27 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,790 This is great. Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. 28 00:03:48,790 --> 00:03:56,100 Thank you. Well, I think it would be great now if we bring in our next special guest as Sigerson. 29 00:03:56,100 --> 00:04:02,680 All right. Jamelia has topped the charts in the UK, Australia, Thailand and Italy and told the world with Usher. 30 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:12,700 Destiny's Child and Justin Timberlake to name just a few. She's received awards from the most Q Awards Ivan of and Mercury Music Prise. 31 00:04:12,700 --> 00:04:19,450 Jamelia uses her expansive career and life experience to empower, inspire and ignite those around her. 32 00:04:19,450 --> 00:04:23,650 She is also an array of documentaries, including two for the BBC. 33 00:04:23,650 --> 00:04:27,790 Shame about single mums and whose hair is it anyway? 34 00:04:27,790 --> 00:04:31,030 Which she says was life changing for her. 35 00:04:31,030 --> 00:04:38,950 Jamelia is a loving wife and describes her most important role as being mummy to her three gorgeous daughters and adorable son. 36 00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:43,360 She sees her children as her greatest success. I am thrilled. 37 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:49,750 I'm delighted to welcome multi award winning artist, presenter and advocate for women and girls Jamelia. 38 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:55,100 Hello, Jamelia. Hi, guys. Hi, dear media. 39 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:59,500 American Media. Brilliant. So happy to hear today. 40 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:02,380 I'm really excited to hear what we're going to talk about. 41 00:05:02,380 --> 00:05:11,830 And what I should say as well, of course, is that Jamelia was meant to join us in Oxford to perform as part of the actual real life big tent. 42 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:16,390 We had an amazing programme there, so I hope that we can welcome you in the future. 43 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:22,280 When the world allows us to come together again each day, we will hold it. 44 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:27,000 There, go live online. So tonight evolved. 45 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:34,390 Priya, I'm. We'll be discussing all things music, performance, representation, education, mental health and home schooling. 46 00:05:34,390 --> 00:05:40,420 I know I, for one, have been appreciating your homeschooling videos to media. 47 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:46,300 Thanks for getting me out of a lot of holes and helping my kids out without further delay. 48 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:50,680 I will hand over to a wonderful panel here. One hundred. Straight to Yvonne. 49 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,250 Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, Vicky. 50 00:05:54,250 --> 00:05:58,210 Thanks. The torch team. And hello again, Jamelia. Hello, everybody. 51 00:05:58,210 --> 00:06:03,460 Hello. Yeah, it's great to see you in this virtual back 10. 52 00:06:03,460 --> 00:06:10,880 And perhaps, oh, get the ball rolling and get the marquee connected, so to speak. 53 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:20,230 Longtown notwithstanding. Now, this week, we will all be aware is Mental Health Awareness Week with the theme kind knows. 54 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:24,380 And today, I believe, is also a world meditation day. 55 00:06:24,380 --> 00:06:28,720 Now, taking a moment to reflect on your work, your career. 56 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:40,420 Jamelia as a singer, as a songwriter. What do you find most interesting about the ability of the human musical voice to promote kindness, 57 00:06:40,420 --> 00:06:45,700 to promote wellness across families and communities? 58 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:55,240 I think I think it's that I think it's the power that music has to bring people together from different communities, from different walks of life. 59 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:03,140 I grew up, you know, in very different circumstances to the ones in which my children now enjoy. 60 00:07:03,140 --> 00:07:08,160 And then, you know, I never forget being on stage once. 61 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:16,180 And it was a commitment. Where was it? I remember that princesses Eugenie and Beatrice were in the front row. 62 00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:21,280 And to me, that was just like it was it blew my mind because I just thought. 63 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,260 When when would I have been in the room? The same room as a princess. 64 00:07:26,260 --> 00:07:29,260 How would I ever gotten into that kind of room? 65 00:07:29,260 --> 00:07:39,250 And for me, even that moment was it really solidified the idea that anything is possible and we should never kind of box ourselves into, 66 00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:44,530 you know, disarm or commit to this idea that we don't belong anywhere. 67 00:07:44,530 --> 00:07:55,390 And I have absolutely benefited from being in so many different rooms and having an array of people in the same room as me. 68 00:07:55,390 --> 00:08:01,020 And it's and it's the opportunity as well to, you know, to to be a voice, to be a voice for the voice. 69 00:08:01,020 --> 00:08:08,590 This even this. You know, for me, it's such a huge honour to be speaking with yourself and. 70 00:08:08,590 --> 00:08:14,590 Like when Alice. I know what it was like for me. 71 00:08:14,590 --> 00:08:18,130 I you. You know, I graduated school and that was it. 72 00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:27,790 I haven't been to college. I haven't been to university. But yet here I am in conversation with, you know, two esteemed academics. 73 00:08:27,790 --> 00:08:30,770 And it's just like, you know, for me it's it's really incredible. 74 00:08:30,770 --> 00:08:36,040 But it's also the power of music and you know, that it brings people like us together. 75 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,910 Would we have connected if it wasn't for my music? 76 00:08:39,910 --> 00:08:45,070 And I'm not sure if we would have. I know I love listening to your songs. 77 00:08:45,070 --> 00:08:48,970 When I was, you know, in school on the way to school. Thank you. 78 00:08:48,970 --> 00:08:59,110 My homework, stuff like that superstar was an upsetting Baber. Thanks for helping me keep that going so I could focus on those studies as well. 79 00:08:59,110 --> 00:09:04,310 So really unlike a part of your your jelly. Like a you. 80 00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:11,720 Oh yeah. So you did not take any credit, but I'm very proud of you. 81 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:19,300 So getting off to a good doesn't it. But I mean, just to just to follow from what everyone was saying, really. 82 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:27,340 I mean, your songs have come of so many different types of themes and topics and emotion, I guess. 83 00:09:27,340 --> 00:09:32,360 So how do you feel that your music has helped to give voice? 84 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:38,950 What was that meant for us is to give voice to your feelings, your own struggles in life and your own achievements. 85 00:09:38,950 --> 00:09:42,590 I mean, superstar is such a, you know, such a child. 86 00:09:42,590 --> 00:09:47,080 But the happy go lucky song. I mean, it's not all. It's really exciting. 87 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,830 I mean, if you could share some thoughts with us on that. Great. Yeah. 88 00:09:50,830 --> 00:09:54,850 I mean, honestly. So. So something like superstar, you know. 89 00:09:54,850 --> 00:10:00,920 And that song literally took me all over the world, every continent. 90 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:06,670 And it gave me the ability to, you know, bring my children all around the world as well. 91 00:10:06,670 --> 00:10:11,710 And as you said, it's it's happiness. It's promoting just a really happy feeling. 92 00:10:11,710 --> 00:10:17,180 Anyone who speaks about superstar to me that I go, that's the best. 93 00:10:17,180 --> 00:10:23,710 And I just think, like, personally, I probably wasn't having the best time of my life. 94 00:10:23,710 --> 00:10:31,570 But to know that I provided or contributed to somebody having those types of feelings and moments is really special to me. 95 00:10:31,570 --> 00:10:36,100 And I think, again, it helped me to understand the power of music. 96 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:41,680 And I think that's when I kind of became a little bit more conscious of my voice. 97 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:50,950 I'm conscious of what my voice was capable of doing. And I think that's what kind of led me to write something like thank you, because, as you know, 98 00:10:50,950 --> 00:10:55,960 I think I think maybe I'm a bit of an activist at heart and just kind of like, well, 99 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:03,370 if I if if all these millions of people can listen to me when I'm singing about dancing on the dance floor, 100 00:11:03,370 --> 00:11:08,500 then maybe they'll you know, it sounds so bizarre, you know, laying out. 101 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:12,820 But maybe they'll listen if I speak about something that we're not speaking about. 102 00:11:12,820 --> 00:11:19,090 And, you know, and they did. And for me, that is really powerful. 103 00:11:19,090 --> 00:11:22,000 And, you know, and it's why I always tell my children, you know, 104 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:32,490 be very careful about every single word you say, you know, be very conscious of the power of your voice. 105 00:11:32,490 --> 00:11:36,490 You know what you just said. And prayers. Wonderful question. 106 00:11:36,490 --> 00:11:46,210 You have your found singing, for instance, to be particularly compelling, powerful, expressive when you teach your children at home. 107 00:11:46,210 --> 00:11:53,030 What is it about the human voice, for example, that can do something dramatic magic with. 108 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:59,010 Yes. Right. And could you share with us about because 350. 109 00:11:59,010 --> 00:12:06,760 Yes. I think I think when it comes to using the voice. I think singing is so important for all of us. 110 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,990 It does not matter whether or not you've got a chart topping voice. 111 00:12:10,990 --> 00:12:20,490 For me as a all of us. No, seriously, I just feel like even if you sing in the shower, it's to me it's like a form of. 112 00:12:20,490 --> 00:12:26,700 Station not always feel better when I sing and I've you know, I've always encouraged my children, 113 00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:31,270 my two year old, she sings at the top of her voice and I encourage it, you know? 114 00:12:31,270 --> 00:12:36,240 And no one is allowed to say all that doesn't sound good or whatever, because it's not a show. 115 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,690 It's more about the action and it's more about the. 116 00:12:39,690 --> 00:12:47,190 I really feel that you get kind of like a release, like a you know, when you feel endorphins and dopamine injection. 117 00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:57,120 I think when you see. And I remember doing a campaign and I think I was actually for the government and it was just it was saying just that, 118 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:03,120 you know, seeing it doesn't matter what your voice sounds like because it's actually therapeutic. 119 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:12,390 We might even consider singing, clapping and singing to our co-workers this evening because people tapping glass, steel. 120 00:13:12,390 --> 00:13:16,700 And that's a form, interestingly, of this rakic to an extent. 121 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:20,500 I find myself wondering what would happen if one starts singing. 122 00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:26,160 Yeah. Yeah. And even as you said, like even that that experience, you know, 123 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:33,660 going out on a Thursday and hearing everyone's singing and it will not see him clapping and making noise, you feel emotional. 124 00:13:33,660 --> 00:13:40,330 You have an emotional reaction to what you're hearing. And you know, and I think that you can also provide that for yourself. 125 00:13:40,330 --> 00:13:46,740 You know you know, also, you know, if you need that release, if meditation doesn't work, then maybe singing might. 126 00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:50,880 So, Joy. A shrine. 127 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:57,420 I just don't know if anyone would really want to hear it. But again, I got it for you. 128 00:13:57,420 --> 00:14:03,420 It sounds great. Oh. If I don't do this to me. 129 00:14:03,420 --> 00:14:07,550 I mean, just I tried to rape her, but crickey. What was it? Because I genuinely want to ask you. 130 00:14:07,550 --> 00:14:13,740 I'm obviously singing music has been a big part of your life. And and as you said, you know, you lose your career quite young. 131 00:14:13,740 --> 00:14:20,130 Didn't you get. I was 50. Yeah. So how did you how did you get started singing in the first place? 132 00:14:20,130 --> 00:14:22,200 I mean, what what triggered it off? 133 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:31,770 Was it like like your two year old or was it you know, I live in a school and before before the age of Met well before the age of 15. 134 00:14:31,770 --> 00:14:37,890 My name was Jamelia. Will you shut up? 135 00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:42,000 Because I just I sang all day long. 136 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,280 I just you know, it wasn't and I didn't I wasn't telling anyone I wanted to be a singer. 137 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:53,370 I think growing up where I grew up, I didn't expect that I could ever be a singer. 138 00:14:53,370 --> 00:15:01,830 It was, you know, it was something that someone else did. But love to sing and I and found true enjoyment in it. 139 00:15:01,830 --> 00:15:06,960 And then my dad actually bought me a karaoke machine when I was 12. 140 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:15,450 One of the few things contribution's my dad made, which is ironic because, you know, it was a huge part of my career, I guess. 141 00:15:15,450 --> 00:15:21,330 And anyway, I used to record some of you might not even know what tape is. 142 00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:29,370 I used to record cassette tapes, but I got to show a little listen, here is this this is a cassette tape. 143 00:15:29,370 --> 00:15:36,680 Yes. Yes, I remember those of those diseases. 144 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,870 Yeah, I. I used to record tape. 145 00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:45,140 So on my karaoke machine you could record straight onto the cassette tape. 146 00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:48,780 And then and then I would pretend that they were my album. 147 00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:52,680 So I had no ancient object. I had something called a Walkman. 148 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,340 So you'd put the tape in and then you'd have the headphones connect. 149 00:15:56,340 --> 00:16:00,960 Right. And so because I'd pretend that that's my album. So that's. 150 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:09,120 And, um. And I happened to go to London with one of my albums and my cousin and my cousin was like, oh my God, you can really see. 151 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:14,190 I was like, well, don't be silly. Well, I went to London for the Notting Hill Carnival. 152 00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:19,340 And so she was to be on. And I went onstage and she was like, you know, you have to sing. 153 00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:26,160 My cousin can say, What are you doing? And so I went on stage, I sang. 154 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:35,080 And luckily for me, one of the people in the crowd was actually an Aono manager from my records. 155 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:41,200 Right. And he asked me to come in the next day for a meeting and offered me a record deal on the spot. 156 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:47,500 But the mum said, no, I wasn't allowed to sign until I passed all of my GCSE. 157 00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:51,120 Yes, yes. That's very interesting, 158 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:59,890 because you also touched upon this question of life knows in the very digital age where you're compared with how your first song performed. 159 00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:04,370 Life was a lie community. Yeah. 160 00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:06,870 What's different in your view? 161 00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:17,550 What sort of opportunities or or challenges are there for young artists out there now who may not necessarily be contracted by a record label? 162 00:17:17,550 --> 00:17:23,190 Right. Who want to do great. The music with the music making. 163 00:17:23,190 --> 00:17:32,770 Yeah. You know, I feel like I feel that artists nowadays, although you have possibly oversaturate over situation. 164 00:17:32,770 --> 00:17:39,670 I believe that there are many. There are many more chances and opportunities to be seen or to to be heard. 165 00:17:39,670 --> 00:17:44,380 The whole idea of going viral is so much more possible now for anyone. 166 00:17:44,380 --> 00:17:47,980 Whereas someone who lived in inner city Birmingham, it was kind of like, you know, 167 00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:51,850 I had to know my cousin who would just so happen to put me on the stage. 168 00:17:51,850 --> 00:18:01,420 You know, it was very kind of serendipitous. I believe that, you know, if if I was going to advise someone who wanted to get into or get out there, 169 00:18:01,420 --> 00:18:09,760 I would literally say, pick up your phone and start singing. Literally, people your phone post on an Instagram account posted on YouTube. 170 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:15,880 I just believe that you can more authentically start a career. 171 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:25,720 When I first started, everything was kind of although I was a solo artist, everything was kind of manufactured that it was, you know, 172 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:31,630 so that you could be this person that we're going to mould you into this person and you going to talk like this and you're going to look like this. 173 00:18:31,630 --> 00:18:38,750 Everything around me was manufactured. Which obviously what fantastically for me at that time. 174 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:50,290 Well, I feel like now you get to have. I just I really believe in using what you have and everyone's got a phone, so please use it. 175 00:18:50,290 --> 00:18:57,920 And if that's you know, it's just it's more possible. I think getting I think it's more likely that you could get yourself heard. 176 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:03,270 Yeah, that's great. I mean, we're obviously making use of that kind of space right now with you. 177 00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:05,910 You've been Zarem and all the rights just to do this event, 178 00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:11,230 which is amazing that we can do it, considering the weird, weird time that we're in right now. 179 00:19:11,230 --> 00:19:17,260 Yes. Well, I mean, I just want to pick up on some of the things that you mentioned that you hear at the start of your career. 180 00:19:17,260 --> 00:19:21,100 You felt things had to be quite manufactured and to your appearance. 181 00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:25,750 And I mean, I watched a couple of your videos about your your head and what you have. 182 00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:31,240 Your journey with your hair. Yes. And your activism and that kind of. 183 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:39,630 And so I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how that part of your career has emerged and maybe where that's come from. 184 00:19:39,630 --> 00:19:47,950 And, you know, in in your in your journey and in your developing ideas about what you want to use your voice for in the way, I guess. 185 00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:50,860 Yes, I think so. 186 00:19:50,860 --> 00:20:02,620 I think that the the manufacturing of me as an artist heads has a huge part to play in who I've kind of become now as a public figure. 187 00:20:02,620 --> 00:20:10,020 Because. When you manufacture to the point that you don't recognise yourself, it's got to break. 188 00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:17,630 But there has to be a breaking point because you can't keep it off. And for me, it was having my first daughter. 189 00:20:17,630 --> 00:20:21,240 She you know, she wanted to be me. 190 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,310 See everything I did. She wanted to look like me. 191 00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:32,110 And I mean, my hand, you know, she was she was like, I want to have my hair, like yours knows on what's wrong with your hair, but you're beautiful. 192 00:20:32,110 --> 00:20:37,480 And, you know, and I literally was just like. Right. And I had bone, straight hair. 193 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,190 And that was part of the manufacturing. 194 00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:50,320 But what I also understood about that was that I was selling the idea of changing yourself to other people's daughters as well. 195 00:20:50,320 --> 00:21:00,300 And I just kind of just wasn't comfortable with it. I wasn't comfortable with, you know, existing as something that, you know, I couldn't feel. 196 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:04,930 I just didn't feel right about, you know. Especially as a parent. 197 00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:09,440 I was just like, no, I can't I can't do that. 198 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:19,740 And so, yeah, I made a conscious effort to slow down the music and to use my voice in a different way, which is why I went into TV. 199 00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:23,290 I love doing stuff like that. Also documentaries. 200 00:21:23,290 --> 00:21:28,690 And then obviously we've got social media and then social media is like, I don't even need to do a whole documentary. 201 00:21:28,690 --> 00:21:31,810 I could just do a post, just shout about it. 202 00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:37,450 I could just write a blog. And, um, and yeah, I think I'm very happy. 203 00:21:37,450 --> 00:21:42,320 I'm very happy with who I am today and and how I use my voice. 204 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:50,380 I'm very conscious about it. You know, I am there's a clip on YouTube actually about me slating. 205 00:21:50,380 --> 00:21:54,430 I'm slating another artist. And I was about this. 206 00:21:54,430 --> 00:22:01,290 What you see. This is before I think I had my daughter. And people still post like, oh, my God, this is amazing. 207 00:22:01,290 --> 00:22:06,630 I, I, I'm so full of embarrassment about it. 208 00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:15,350 And I think it's because for me it's just like I am so not that person and I'm so and no you don't no longer that person. 209 00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:21,910 And at the time I was acting in a way that I thought, OK, this is going to get me more famous, you know. 210 00:22:21,910 --> 00:22:31,960 And it was this is this is what it did. It I, I slated someone in public on a TV show and my career would, you know, after that. 211 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:41,050 And I was a assigner, you know, that doesn't feel good to me, especially now, especially as a mother of daughters, especially, you know. 212 00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:43,840 Yes. It certainly seems like that is that kind of evolution. 213 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:49,300 Unfortunately for me, sometimes, you know, my evolution has had to take place in front of the camera. 214 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:54,950 But at the same time, I just want to be somebody that I'm proud of and that my children can be proud of. 215 00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:59,050 And and as I said, my children are my biggest fans. 216 00:22:59,050 --> 00:23:04,430 So I want them I want them to know anything that I do. 217 00:23:04,430 --> 00:23:09,250 Whatever would I be happy with. My daughter's doing it. And that's kind of the motivation. 218 00:23:09,250 --> 00:23:15,130 You know, if anything I say, would I be happy with my daughter's repeating something like that? 219 00:23:15,130 --> 00:23:19,060 And so, yeah, as I said, he's very I'm very conscious. And it's not just my daughters. 220 00:23:19,060 --> 00:23:21,700 It's everyone's daughters and everyone's sons as well. 221 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:28,270 I just, you know, it's a very, very important to me to to not want to be a good person, to, you know, 222 00:23:28,270 --> 00:23:34,970 be be true to who I am, because even that person who, you know, was horrible on the TV, that that isn't me. 223 00:23:34,970 --> 00:23:41,020 It isn't me. But I was playing a role. And I just kind of think authenticity is actually OK. 224 00:23:41,020 --> 00:23:46,030 Your own is OK. You know, how you look is actually OK. 225 00:23:46,030 --> 00:23:49,950 And that's what I'd like to be a part of promoting rather than, you know. 226 00:23:49,950 --> 00:23:55,750 Yeah. Manufacturing ideals. You're not done makes absolute sense to me. 227 00:23:55,750 --> 00:24:00,430 And I'm glad that, you know, we're with we're having a more open conversation about these things. 228 00:24:00,430 --> 00:24:06,570 I mean, certainly I come from a Sikh family. And so for Sikhs, hair is a big deal. 229 00:24:06,570 --> 00:24:11,350 Yes. I mean, but in our faith, if you're a fully practising Sikh, you're not supposed to cut your hair. 230 00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:14,890 You're not. Your eyebrows are shaved, your legs or anything. 231 00:24:14,890 --> 00:24:22,930 And guys are supposed to grow a full beard and things. And I mean, we just had in the news last week, there was a Sikh doctor in in Canada. 232 00:24:22,930 --> 00:24:27,940 You felt compelled to shave off his beard and cut his hair. It was to fit the people equipment. 233 00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:34,740 Yeah. You know, the Sikhs, the hair is it's a form of strength is the home of identity is a revolutionary thing. 234 00:24:34,740 --> 00:24:40,510 And I think what you said there, it has. I mean, I just I didn't see the video that, you know, and the comment that you made before. 235 00:24:40,510 --> 00:24:44,290 But, yeah, it just shows that people make mistakes. 236 00:24:44,290 --> 00:24:49,510 Right. But as long as you learn lessons from them and your you know, your most important pressing going forward. 237 00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:52,760 Yeah. And that's, you know, what could what could anyone do. 238 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:58,870 Right. We would do stuff like that. But I guess once and obviously you unfortunately caught on camera. 239 00:24:58,870 --> 00:25:02,660 We live in a very we're living in a very challenging age right now. Right. 240 00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:09,710 And. Seems like the politics of hate get through so much faster then than the struggles that we're trying to talk about. 241 00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:18,170 Yeah, absolutely. I think absolutely, especially for our younger generation, we can only we can only hope that the path will get easier and easier. 242 00:25:18,170 --> 00:25:22,840 But it is the bar accepting everything about yourself, isn't it? And you're right. And you're making space for that. 243 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:29,510 Yeah, absolutely. And I think and this is again, these are the things that, you know, I teach my children. 244 00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:40,880 You can choose to be who you are. And it can be wildly different from how somebody else chooses to live and exist and present in themselves. 245 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,380 But it doesn't mean that there's no common ground. It doesn't mean that they have to be ostracised. 246 00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:53,330 They're just another person. And for me, it's about that. You know, I don't even like the word tolerance because I think that, you know, 247 00:25:53,330 --> 00:25:58,400 it seems that that makes it seem as if it's something uncomfortable that you have to tolerate. 248 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,000 For me, it's just one thought, why can't we just all exist? 249 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:10,450 Why can't we all sit in our entirety and authentically, you know, my hair shouldn't be a, you know, an issue. 250 00:26:10,450 --> 00:26:20,450 You know, it shouldn't be it shouldn't be something that stops me from receiving education or care or do you know, which is why I will talk about it. 251 00:26:20,450 --> 00:26:25,100 But I talk about it because I don't want this to continue for my children. 252 00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:31,520 I want my children to live in a totally different world where they don't actually have to have these conversations. 253 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,440 And interestingly, perhaps the lockdown has had one positive effect up in reading today, 254 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,450 how women have been reflecting not just about their image, but about their bodies. 255 00:26:41,450 --> 00:26:48,010 For example, people who are not big, they're not able to have the acrylics dog, the eyelash. 256 00:26:48,010 --> 00:27:01,160 My goodness, my face looks so this frago right by going back to older photos, because your kids are just it's like you already know in my age. 257 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,310 Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to hear more from you. 258 00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:08,980 As a matter of record, you mentioned activism earlier. 259 00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:21,360 I was just wondering if you could share it with us today here in the strict tent about younger not just artists, but younger women more generally. 260 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:26,960 Right. Those who want to pursue their passions, their musical passions, on the one hand, yes. 261 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:35,350 But who also want to foster music or other things as a as a sort of civic projects, civic advocacy on the other. 262 00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:43,400 Yeah. How what has it been like for you? Striking a balancing act between doing something very creative and doing something civic? 263 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,420 Not that those two can't coexist. They do go hand-in-hand. 264 00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:56,440 So what has your experience been like going into the communities? Yeah, I think I think the 90s and I think for me that they definitely. 265 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:07,920 So I I had my career. I've had my career of like whilst going over this transitional period of social media and social activism and, 266 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:13,790 you know, online activism, should I say. And I think that it's been really interesting to me. 267 00:28:13,790 --> 00:28:20,480 Whereas back in the day I could say what I wanted to do, what I wanted, you know, and nothing would come back to me. 268 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:27,200 I wouldn't be cancelled. And now I feel that I love that we call people out. 269 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:35,690 And I know that might sound like a crazy thing to say, but I love that we hold people accountable for their actions because I feel that I feel 270 00:28:35,690 --> 00:28:42,080 that progression can be made and I feel that the world is becoming a lot smaller. 271 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:50,330 So as I was saying earlier, you know, being from inner city Birmingham, I just didn't think for one second that I could be an artist. 272 00:28:50,330 --> 00:29:00,410 I could have the career that I've had. And now I think I think any inner city, Birmingham kids, things, I could do that if I wanted to. 273 00:29:00,410 --> 00:29:05,810 And I I love that. And I love being a part of that community and encouraging them. 274 00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:10,160 For me, it's about it's about being kind of a beacon in a way. 275 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,080 Like, I'm someone who's done it. Here's how you can do it. And, you know, sharing. 276 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:23,030 I think I love the idea of sharing. I love the idea of sharing not only knowledge, but resources, an insight. 277 00:29:23,030 --> 00:29:33,020 And, you know, I think especially when you're from a certain socio economic background like myself, 278 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:40,280 I feel that we can have this kind of squirrel mentality where we don't share anything because we feel so fortunate to have what we have. 279 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,560 But for me, it's just like, no, no. Everyone needs to know. 280 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,170 There's no need to share. And I see a lot of that. 281 00:29:47,170 --> 00:29:53,120 So my eldest daughter is 19 and she shares everything. 282 00:29:53,120 --> 00:30:01,910 She tells it like she just started her second business and she and she tells people where she gets her products from. 283 00:30:01,910 --> 00:30:07,160 But that doesn't make any business. Since you, me, me, there's enough for everyone. 284 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,800 And I'm just like, cool, you know, that's good. That's good. 285 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:19,070 So, you know, even that does being been willing to learn from, you know, people younger than me. 286 00:30:19,070 --> 00:30:23,210 I'm willing to learn from my two year old. Yeah, I am. 287 00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:35,360 And I feel that, you know, that although there was a distinction between community and all that, I think that the world is becoming a lot smaller. 288 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,860 And I love it and I love being a part of it as well. I feel very fortunate to be a part of it. 289 00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:48,920 Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I mean, I hope we've still got time for this, but I was just it was one big question I really wanted to ask you. 290 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,970 And I mean, you're absolutely right about wanting to reach that inner city, 291 00:30:53,970 --> 00:30:58,560 five Birmingham kids, things like, you know, thinking, oh, no, I can't do it without you. 292 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:05,510 Right. And I mean, education's a big part of that as well as Amy Set of Oxford being wacking, you know, 293 00:31:05,510 --> 00:31:09,890 long and hard to try and get kids from that kind of background or across the country, 294 00:31:09,890 --> 00:31:14,540 around the world to have to consider going to university and doing that same kind of thing. 295 00:31:14,540 --> 00:31:23,870 So whatever truck of life you're on, whatever it is that you want to achieve, maybe in music or as a scientist or lucky demick like, I don't know. 296 00:31:23,870 --> 00:31:29,190 Right. And, you know, you want kids to be able to aspire to do that. 297 00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:34,580 And I understand you homeschooled your children. Are you happy including. 298 00:31:34,580 --> 00:31:36,770 And I mean, not going away. 299 00:31:36,770 --> 00:31:44,330 I imagine it must be pretty cool to have, you know, your superstar award winning mom giving you your mom lessons and stuff. 300 00:31:44,330 --> 00:31:50,550 Right. How is that one? I mean, ultimately, why did you why did you decide to do the. 301 00:31:50,550 --> 00:31:56,520 And honestly, I get so I feel that particularly the school. 302 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:02,660 So my daughters have been to school and, um, the school that they went to as they got older. 303 00:32:02,660 --> 00:32:11,750 I felt that the people who were teaching them were quite archaic in their ideas when it came to young black girls. 304 00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:15,800 That was read. It was really heartbreaking for me because growing up, 305 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,830 I've always been told go into a private school with the best thing you could possibly do for your child. 306 00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:25,460 And so I was sending my children to private school. 307 00:32:25,460 --> 00:32:36,140 But what I realised was that we haven't progressed far in the education system, hadn't progressed far enough to not accept. 308 00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:42,780 But to that, it's like it's like they weren't used to these my type of children as well. 309 00:32:42,780 --> 00:32:49,550 They're very confident that. Very expressive and very. 310 00:32:49,550 --> 00:32:58,760 A lot like me. I wouldn't want to teach me, but I just kind of a bad day. 311 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:06,260 I felt that they just needed more. And I feel that sometimes the education system can feel very rigid. 312 00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:13,430 My eldest daughter was not very academic at all. My, my my middle daughter, she's 14. 313 00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:20,470 And she. She is academic, but again, the way that she learns. 314 00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:23,590 I just felt that the school couldn't possibly provide that. 315 00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:33,640 And also I didn't blame them for that because I also feel as well, you can't possibly tailor make education to fit each individual child. 316 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:39,610 And so I just felt the best thing for my children was to take them out and do do it myself. 317 00:33:39,610 --> 00:33:43,970 Don't get me wrong, it is not easy. It's not a walk in the park. 318 00:33:43,970 --> 00:33:51,420 And some days I give up some days and throw the bags in the air. I often think a lot people relate. 319 00:33:51,420 --> 00:33:55,570 I look down right now. Yeah. OK. 320 00:33:55,570 --> 00:34:02,110 But at the same time, I do think for my children is the absolute best decision I've made. 321 00:34:02,110 --> 00:34:06,520 My 19 year old. So again, she wanted to go to university. 322 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,990 She wants to go to university. And then she decided that the very last minute she didn't want to go. 323 00:34:10,990 --> 00:34:16,340 And it was an inside. I was like she was going to go ballistic. 324 00:34:16,340 --> 00:34:25,980 Importance of finding her own voice. Right. And relate to backboards, going back to how we started with our plan to do that. 325 00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:30,480 So it's the it is the book is The Power of the Voice, isn't it? 326 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,150 In a variety of words musically, but also in life. 327 00:34:35,150 --> 00:34:39,640 Lately I was voice in her Christmas, so. Well, yes, exactly. 328 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,500 And and she's you know, she's done something great with it. I wasn't gonna have her lounging around the house. 329 00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:51,070 But what I will say is that having my children, one of the best things I've realised is that, OK. 330 00:34:51,070 --> 00:34:55,360 Just to stick with me here, because it's going to sound really weird, but I'm just a gardener. 331 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,070 So imagine a gardener just has to provide the right environment, right nutrients, 332 00:35:00,070 --> 00:35:06,850 the right amount of water so that their plants can grow into whatever it is they're meant to grow into. 333 00:35:06,850 --> 00:35:09,070 And that's how I look at my parenting. 334 00:35:09,070 --> 00:35:18,910 I just give them the right environment, the right, you know, the right things that they need to grow but not dictate who it is they should become. 335 00:35:18,910 --> 00:35:25,690 You know, my mom never did that with me. Mother never said, you know, you have to be you know, you have to be a lawyer or you have to be based. 336 00:35:25,690 --> 00:35:33,000 She was just like, who do you want to be? And I think that that's something really beneficial that I've been able to pass on to my children. 337 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:42,160 And although, you know, I think it's because my daughter, you know, she she went to college and she she passed everything with flying colours, 338 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,080 school, everything with flying colours, despite not being an academic. 339 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,610 So when she said she didn't want to go to university, I was like, what's the you? 340 00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:57,460 You'll be great in university. And she's just like, Mommy, no, no. 341 00:35:57,460 --> 00:36:02,490 She said she said, I'd like to start my life now, which I don't really know what that means yet. 342 00:36:02,490 --> 00:36:06,940 So she's like cheating and she doesn't accept pocket money for me anymore. 343 00:36:06,940 --> 00:36:11,920 She's she's she drive. She's do really well. And I just think she's very happy. 344 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,830 And to me that's the most important thing. So and so. 345 00:36:15,830 --> 00:36:20,860 Yet it is not what I want them to have that confidence and develop that confidence. 346 00:36:20,860 --> 00:36:28,300 And I feel that I feel homeschooling is really contributing to them, you know, again, living authentically. 347 00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:35,540 No, it's absolutely true. And I think we're probably gonna have to wrap up quite soon and possibly to audience questions. 348 00:36:35,540 --> 00:36:40,800 But I guess, I mean, things like this is the thing, you know, Oxford University and places, institutions like that. 349 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,060 Yeah. They've been here for hundreds of years. 350 00:36:43,060 --> 00:36:47,740 Even with the financial crisis that potentially facing them right now, they're not going to be completely gone. 351 00:36:47,740 --> 00:36:51,830 So I guess you should change their mind as you go later. Yes, why not? 352 00:36:51,830 --> 00:36:57,400 But yeah. No, I, I think that's been really fascinating to hear from you. 353 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:03,540 And it does make me wonder if, you know, I mean, obviously your kids have been amazing and they've they've had the option to you. 354 00:37:03,540 --> 00:37:13,240 You really given up the attention. But the good the education system, you're doing more for kids that the parents aren't as able to deliver for them. 355 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:17,830 Right. And that's something for people to think about, I guess. Yeah. 356 00:37:17,830 --> 00:37:22,980 Sorry to quote you. I think it's my thing I'm not against schools. 357 00:37:22,980 --> 00:37:26,950 I just believe that schools need to do more for certain children. 358 00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:32,200 And, you know, fortunately, my children fall into that category also. 359 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:40,090 So, you know, I'd prefer not to homeschool. Well, I do invite you back in. 360 00:37:40,090 --> 00:37:43,450 I mean, this is a very nice note on which to bring to the fore. 361 00:37:43,450 --> 00:37:50,440 Also took a break. I think there are questions of identity and empowerment, which I'm sure our audience would love to take up. 362 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:56,070 So we invite Vicki back in. Yes. It was great. 363 00:37:56,070 --> 00:38:03,390 I was really enjoying listening to that from the back row. We got lots of questions coming through social media and different platforms. 364 00:38:03,390 --> 00:38:10,500 So if I can keep you for a little while longer, I think it's really important to try to share some of those. 365 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:18,160 If we could stop as we as we finish just then on school, particularly because I know I for one, as I mentioned earlier, 366 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,560 I've been very grateful for your videos because I think it's fair to say anyone with 367 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:28,800 kids was suddenly at home watching their laptop up on some sort of inadequate box. 368 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,170 So it was in the right clip. Also trying to homeschool their children properly in different ways. 369 00:38:34,170 --> 00:38:40,320 And what is clear is everyone's situation is so different. So I just wondered if we could follow up on that. 370 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:49,260 You know what? If you could give any you know, what are your top three tips for us all coping with this very swift move to a home school? 371 00:38:49,260 --> 00:38:55,350 Jamelia. OK. One of them might be a bit controversial. So my first one is give yourself a break. 372 00:38:55,350 --> 00:38:59,580 My first one is like. Absolutely. Give yourself a break. Don't freak out. 373 00:38:59,580 --> 00:39:12,920 It's not like it's not a C. I think it is. And my second one is do not create what you call what you call people who are stuck at their desks all day. 374 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,920 But that's not this workaholic, isn't it? 375 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,520 There's a name for it. I can't what it is. Don't don't bind your children to their desks. 376 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,660 Don't don't let them do. Like sheets of paper. All day. 377 00:39:27,660 --> 00:39:34,010 Every day. There is so much learning to be done out there out in the world. 378 00:39:34,010 --> 00:39:39,480 You know, baking is a way to learn. And Amy and my daughters put up a trampoline. 379 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,710 That was an educational experience. We've had no pen and paper today. 380 00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:48,910 And they learnt so much today. Building a trampoline. My hands are in. 381 00:39:48,910 --> 00:39:52,470 I've never do this. I learnt. 382 00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:56,040 I learnt. I'm never doing that again. That's desolate. 383 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:03,570 So. Yes. So don't you know, please don't have the rats rabbiting away doing, you know, things on paper. 384 00:40:03,570 --> 00:40:09,900 I just think it's so boring for them. It's boring for us. And then you let them go outside and. 385 00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:15,100 And my third tip is, is be prepared for them. 386 00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:18,950 And I just think. Because I think. 387 00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:25,940 I think a lot of a lot of you were thrown in at the deep end and then it came to Monday and it was like, OK, let's go away. 388 00:40:25,940 --> 00:40:31,070 Home schooling is like it doesn't work like that. Like when I when I homeschool. 389 00:40:31,070 --> 00:40:34,870 I spend about a week preparing, what, maybe two weeks. 390 00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:38,270 I mean, you guys, you you were all doing lesson plans and stuff like that. 391 00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:45,890 And it's very similar to that. You have to prepare before you see children and children or worse because they have no patience. 392 00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:52,940 They will say exactly what they think. This is boring. You know, and I think, you know, so. 393 00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:56,660 So they're they're incredible critics, should I say. That's that's what I won't say. 394 00:40:56,660 --> 00:41:03,970 They're the words. They are incredible critics. And I think you just, um, be be as prepared as you can be, 395 00:41:03,970 --> 00:41:11,480 but also be prepared for everything to go wrong and know that that is completely normal and fine. 396 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:19,890 Yeah. But it's a great place. Just generally I think people do. 397 00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:27,110 Yeah. I'd like to move to some questions we've got from a great group called the Young Women's Music Project, 398 00:41:27,110 --> 00:41:34,810 and they're superexcited that your hair and part of the programme, they were looking forward to seeing you in person as well. 399 00:41:34,810 --> 00:41:39,730 So they've sent several questions. And so I might just just go through them, if that's okay. 400 00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:43,880 And it's and then we can talk around them as well. No problem. 401 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:51,770 Musicians inspired you growing up. What barriers did you face to entering the music industry? 402 00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:59,460 What advice would you give to young women, especially women of colour, who are starting out in the creative industries? 403 00:41:59,460 --> 00:42:05,570 That's really interesting. Yeah. OK. So my my all time idol is Mary J. 404 00:42:05,570 --> 00:42:09,560 Blige. I just I just love her. 405 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:15,560 I just absolutely love her. And I found out on my 21st birthday that week, me and Mary J. 406 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:26,310 Blige have the same birthday. And I was like. So, yes, I celebrate her birthday on my birthday, although I'm a mad fan. 407 00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:30,950 Blige. What's wrong with the second question was. 408 00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:40,220 Sorry. What barriers did you face? Bring the music. So I think a barrier is only a barrier if you allow it to be. 409 00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:47,330 I'll never forget doing so. You do a showcase when you're first kind of presenting yourself to the world as an artist. 410 00:42:47,330 --> 00:42:52,880 But this showcases for like executives and like people from other record labels and stuff like that. 411 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,350 So I never forget the first time I did one need. 412 00:42:57,350 --> 00:43:01,590 I've done so much preparation for this performance and dancing and all of that. 413 00:43:01,590 --> 00:43:03,950 And, you know, this is my first big performance. 414 00:43:03,950 --> 00:43:11,270 And after I came off at one of the executives, it was like, you know, I was like, listen, you're absolutely amazing. 415 00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:15,930 Absolutely phenomenal. But it's not going to work. You're far too dark. 416 00:43:15,930 --> 00:43:21,530 And I was just like, oh, my God. Like, I was 15. I was about fifteen or sixteen. 417 00:43:21,530 --> 00:43:25,970 I was like, oh, my gosh. But at the same time, I just. 418 00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:32,690 But as I said. But that's a moment for me to decide. Is this a barrier or more than show him. 419 00:43:32,690 --> 00:43:36,770 And that was literally, you know. And I've had many moments like that. 420 00:43:36,770 --> 00:43:43,730 That is one that really sticks out to me. But I was just like, well, I'm going to see you again. 421 00:43:43,730 --> 00:43:49,310 And I can't wait to see you again. And and I always use moments like that to spur me on. 422 00:43:49,310 --> 00:43:54,080 I remember a career day. My teachers were like. I was like. I'd like to be a singer. 423 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,000 Think. And they're like they literally burst out laughing. I was like. 424 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:05,880 But then I was I had they asked me to come back and form at the school a couple years later. 425 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:13,400 But yeah. So the barriers, the barriers, as I said, you decide whether a barrier is a barrier or not. 426 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,630 There's always a way around it. You can you know, you can always be the first. 427 00:44:17,630 --> 00:44:21,470 You can always be the new one. You can always be the one who changes the game. 428 00:44:21,470 --> 00:44:25,960 And, you know, if you believe that you can. I believe that you can do. 429 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:33,260 Yes. This is ridiculous. The last costume was my movie. 430 00:44:33,260 --> 00:44:39,980 So that's not one question. I believe in God. 431 00:44:39,980 --> 00:44:45,600 Would you give to young women, especially women of colour, who are starting out in the creative industries? 432 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,090 You touched on it already. I think I think it's to be brave. To be brave. 433 00:44:50,090 --> 00:44:54,710 To be loud. Don't shrink. And to to be confident as well. 434 00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:58,430 You know, even if you say it, fake it till you make it. 435 00:44:58,430 --> 00:45:05,280 If you've got to do that, like, you know, we all deserve and deserve an opportunity to be here. 436 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,110 And I just think don't act as if, you know, you're not supposed to be, 437 00:45:09,110 --> 00:45:14,120 because that's when I believe in, like, the stars aligning to whatever it is you're feeling. 438 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:22,420 So, you know, find that confidence. And again, you know, kick down every barrier you can. 439 00:45:22,420 --> 00:45:29,780 Yeah, it was great once again. It was nothing particularly, you know, where we've touched on the arts. 440 00:45:29,780 --> 00:45:38,190 I wondered if we could, you know, talk about the current situation. And of course, a lot of all this is about bringing people together. 441 00:45:38,190 --> 00:45:46,670 Yes. Crowds of people. So, you know, these and opportunities are there at risk right now? 442 00:45:46,670 --> 00:45:50,570 Not really. What's about also. So look look down. 443 00:45:50,570 --> 00:45:56,320 And particularly when we're thinking about work, you know, people getting work and staying work. 444 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:03,860 Yeah. Industries arts. More broadly, I, I at first I was really worried about this time. 445 00:46:03,860 --> 00:46:10,160 But I also think that in times of crisis is probably the best time for a creative. 446 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:20,900 It's such incredible fodder to create. And I believe that this whole coalgate crisis is literally going to change the whole landscape of how we work, 447 00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:25,580 how we entertain how weak and how we choose to spend our time. 448 00:46:25,580 --> 00:46:29,610 And I think. You know what I mean? I know. 449 00:46:29,610 --> 00:46:38,030 Yes. You can see on Netflix and did it. But as a creative, I think there comes a point where it's just like, OK, I can't do that. 450 00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:46,680 It will just come. And I just think don't stop creating, you know, how how can you do it differently? 451 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:51,420 There are people on tick tock who make, you know, who make so much money. 452 00:46:51,420 --> 00:46:56,370 I watch all these videos all day, every day on YouTube. And I can't draw. 453 00:46:56,370 --> 00:47:01,860 So, you know, they make, you know, hundreds from me. And I just think there's a way for all of us. 454 00:47:01,860 --> 00:47:04,650 And it's you don't make a way out of no way. 455 00:47:04,650 --> 00:47:11,910 Again, if you act like you've been defeated, then the stars would align to support whatever it is you believe. 456 00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:16,320 But again, move forward with confidence and continue to create. 457 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:26,340 Don't stop creating a just yet. I just think that's the most important thing to, you know, see this as an opportunity rather than an a disadvantage. 458 00:47:26,340 --> 00:47:32,310 A don't if that sounds like a Refaeli. But it's what I truly believe that I think is good. 459 00:47:32,310 --> 00:47:37,200 I think, you know, it's it's it's gonna be a troubling time for old industries. 460 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:43,860 US officials particularly. We're thinking, you know, as people who work at universities, of course, you know, 461 00:47:43,860 --> 00:47:47,790 there's there's ways in which we're thinking, if I had we teach online. 462 00:47:47,790 --> 00:47:52,500 Yes. And you all research, particularly humanities. You know, what about. 463 00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:59,690 I need to go and find all colleagues. So, you know, I was thinking about those new ways of doing you know, I it's a a phone. 464 00:47:59,690 --> 00:48:03,720 Do you have any thoughts on on the current situation? How. 465 00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:14,010 Oh, my God. Well, I mean, is it as a Genea career, academic jobs are few and far between right now. 466 00:48:14,010 --> 00:48:19,230 So I'm I'm I'm kind of facing an element of unemployment, but at the same time. 467 00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:23,530 And it's pushed me to be. Well, I'm saying in conversation with you guys or things like that. 468 00:48:23,530 --> 00:48:29,760 But let's face it. Well, I guess this is really push me to start thinking about. 469 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:35,280 Okay, well, what what is important to me with my what what do I want to keep going with? 470 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,180 Now, I've had time to stop and think. I think that's what's really pushed us all, isn't it? 471 00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:43,200 You know, when you you're so busy running around and then now you can't go anywhere. 472 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,330 So you really, really need to think about stuff. 473 00:48:45,330 --> 00:48:52,020 And it's really the ideas that have bubbled up to the surface have been really interesting and exciting. 474 00:48:52,020 --> 00:48:53,700 And for me as a researcher, 475 00:48:53,700 --> 00:49:01,640 it's made me I've had more time to figure out what I want to do with my next research projects and how I'd want to make the community. 476 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:06,220 And I had a month before, you know, I'm said so you're absolutely right. 477 00:49:06,220 --> 00:49:12,090 We haven't really been asked what you're saying about doing so crazy, because I think it probably just keeps you going as well. 478 00:49:12,090 --> 00:49:17,340 Right. You know, you sit there and so then it's, you know, you feel defeated. 479 00:49:17,340 --> 00:49:23,050 But I realise even if I just spend about five minutes on it on something a day, that it will grow from there. 480 00:49:23,050 --> 00:49:28,440 And if I can do more than that, then that's fine. But, you know, you can lay the seeds for later. 481 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,220 I mean, a lot less. We may potentially have to pivot and do something different for a little while. 482 00:49:32,220 --> 00:49:35,580 That's not the dream job or whatever. But you can do it. 483 00:49:35,580 --> 00:49:39,180 Come back, I guess. So keep that belief alive. 484 00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:45,660 You know, people are picking one, a very good inspiration for keeping your spirits up. 485 00:49:45,660 --> 00:49:51,220 I just think to Supastar. Good. Your own inspiration to each other. 486 00:49:51,220 --> 00:49:58,020 I'd like to get. I also like to think of industries that create every industry is a creative discovery, 487 00:49:58,020 --> 00:50:03,120 because I think it's I suppose it's a question brought up the creative industries. 488 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,420 But it's it's it's actually quite empowering, as I may say. 489 00:50:06,420 --> 00:50:11,480 So to think of our work as creative. Whether your postal worker can work. 490 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:17,020 No signal. There's something I think and maybe human we've created, too. 491 00:50:17,020 --> 00:50:21,540 I think that really connects to what you're saying from what you've been saying as well, 492 00:50:21,540 --> 00:50:26,670 to be on it today, sharing with us about your experiences, your voice. 493 00:50:26,670 --> 00:50:35,340 And I think also this importance, given the uncertainties and the increasing concerns of these over the coming Hmongs years. 494 00:50:35,340 --> 00:50:40,480 Right. To not lose our sense of self humility, your patience. 495 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,960 I think these qualities, these elements have always gone so close then hand in hand with creativity. 496 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,510 So I think there's something about creativity to say. 497 00:50:49,510 --> 00:51:03,850 Right. And not just making music with products or professionally that is very intrinsic to who we are and how we connect with people. 498 00:51:03,850 --> 00:51:13,960 And you mentioned your mother, your children, how they have had to negotiate their way around into private school, for instance. 499 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:20,970 Well, that itself is also that invites a creative strategy as to how am I going to get the Bombadier 500 00:51:20,970 --> 00:51:27,110 re-educate the right as to why are there these long standing historical prejudices? 501 00:51:27,110 --> 00:51:34,400 And I think there's something very powerful equipment you have about precommitment and so very key, 502 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,620 what you're saying about this sort of uncertainty that we find ourselves in now. 503 00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:43,610 I think it's really encouraged us to not only reflect but who we are, 504 00:51:43,610 --> 00:51:52,370 but also to say how can we apply operator to scope better goods on a small level or on a bigger level, whatever that is. 505 00:51:52,370 --> 00:51:56,180 Which I'm sorry. I'm one I have to admit, I'm kind of quite right. 506 00:51:56,180 --> 00:52:03,140 I want to ask you really on that note. Could you share bits with us about your next project, your next album? 507 00:52:03,140 --> 00:52:09,200 Does any of what we're sharing today, is it about yet? 508 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:16,820 As I said, my and I believe that times of crisis are the best times for for creatives. 509 00:52:16,820 --> 00:52:20,940 So I have like literally a thousand projects that I'd like to do. 510 00:52:20,940 --> 00:52:22,090 And then I'm going to do that. 511 00:52:22,090 --> 00:52:31,010 And they're going to I've literally I've got like a bought all these new notebooks with different ideas, but I definitely want to do some more music. 512 00:52:31,010 --> 00:52:41,120 I am definitely decided that in this time, even though I'm almost 40 and probably not going to be allowed on on many of the popular radio stations, 513 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:48,480 but whatever stupid here in the studio is doing is doing this. 514 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,200 Yeah. You take photos to my parents. 515 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:57,770 Yeah, I just do. I do. I take my own advice. That was really a bus station. 516 00:52:57,770 --> 00:53:02,510 Yeah. Yeah exactly. You get it. Yeah. I'm full of ideas as I said. 517 00:53:02,510 --> 00:53:10,060 Music is definitely one. And I've I recently launched an online TV show called The Table. 518 00:53:10,060 --> 00:53:14,280 Yeah. I want to do much more of that. And I'm like my YouTube. 519 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:20,720 We've got loads of ideas for that. I'd love to write, but I'd also love the time to write. 520 00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:26,260 I don't think it's going to be a book or a leaflet at this stage. Yeah. 521 00:53:26,260 --> 00:53:31,400 Yeah. So I'm full of ideas and a but I would like to get them all done. 522 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:36,510 How? I have no idea because I've also got four children. You don't keep in touch with just anybody. 523 00:53:36,510 --> 00:53:45,320 Not that we know what people think. She has no idea who I am. 524 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:51,440 I to 90 because the question that's come up with YouTube is I think really apps as more because where we're 525 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,330 doing everything in the same space and there's something to say about us all going through this together. 526 00:53:56,330 --> 00:54:02,820 Right. Literally, we know everyone's at home safe and well. 527 00:54:02,820 --> 00:54:09,930 Somebody is asked. So Marilyn asks, how do you relax away from work and home and stuff like that? 528 00:54:09,930 --> 00:54:18,080 Well, what is your way to relax? So I am very intentional about my relaxation time. 529 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:23,090 I wake up an hour earlier than everyone else in the house, so I get to have that time. 530 00:54:23,090 --> 00:54:26,980 I know that sounds good. I'm also a big napper. 531 00:54:26,980 --> 00:54:31,130 I'm very consistent in the middle of the day. 532 00:54:31,130 --> 00:54:35,390 Mommy gets to have a nap. But I also everyone's allowed to nap. 533 00:54:35,390 --> 00:54:43,130 So I got that from my two year old. I was like, yeah, she's got she's got this must actually have a nap. 534 00:54:43,130 --> 00:54:47,240 So, you know, we all nap at different times, but that's very important to me. 535 00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:56,000 And I'm also honest as well. So for me, it's you know, if I need a break, I can say to my husband, I can say to my older children, 536 00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:01,240 not so much the two year old, I can say to them, I just need five minutes. 537 00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:05,270 Fifteen minutes, and I might sit out in the garden. 538 00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:10,210 I might go and read a book. And it's about being. 539 00:55:10,210 --> 00:55:20,410 Being very, very intentional, but also very, you know, just just very vocal about, you know, I need this on know, especially as a parent. 540 00:55:20,410 --> 00:55:26,890 Always giving, especially as the mom and, you know, no offence to dads, but moms, we give a lot. 541 00:55:26,890 --> 00:55:30,880 And I think, you know, I. Yeah. Is this just the kind of thing. 542 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,360 You know, respect my time. I would like this done. 543 00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:42,720 So the morning, you know, and as I said, afternoon, afternoon nap and and possibly an hour to myself before I go to bed. 544 00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:46,170 And, you know, it sounds like a dream doesn't happen every day. 545 00:55:46,170 --> 00:55:49,420 But I try. I do try. Yeah. 546 00:55:49,420 --> 00:55:53,590 Do you do you sing and improvise to yourself as a mom? 547 00:55:53,590 --> 00:55:59,420 I work with these sorts of tracks and I sing all day. Every day. 548 00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:07,750 Well, really good advice for parents, you know, because we're all finding all way and every time I think I've got there, 549 00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:13,120 I suddenly realise I'm I'm not quite the mess everyone is. 550 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:18,760 Every day I'm learning so. And so I need to forgive myself a little bit. 551 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:31,100 But I've got I've made a note naps. I could go Rebo Raicu at noon and just put it on your sticky nap time. 552 00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:37,740 Yes. I'm used to it. Oh, no. I'm currently separated. 553 00:56:37,740 --> 00:56:42,640 There we go. There's a couple of questions that come through, particularly about your charity work. 554 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:51,940 So sensitive, you know. Can you say a little bit more about your World Food Programme and of course, more about the Girls Club programmes. 555 00:56:51,940 --> 00:56:56,230 So and the World Food Programme, you know, that was years ago. 556 00:56:56,230 --> 00:57:06,540 And I you know, I'm. I'll never forget doing that, so I did two trips with them, I went to Kenya and I went to on Liquidnet. 557 00:57:06,540 --> 00:57:12,480 When was the place? This is really bad. There's two places in Africa. 558 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,260 And I remember. I've just never been really overwhelmed. 559 00:57:17,260 --> 00:57:25,660 And I think for me for me, it was particularly overwhelming because as a black woman seeing another black person, 560 00:57:25,660 --> 00:57:33,610 it's kind of like I see myself and, you know, or I had children the same age as the children that I saw. 561 00:57:33,610 --> 00:57:37,240 I went into a home with a woman who, you know, she's a mother. 562 00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,980 She had two children. And, you know, it was helping her to cook dinner. 563 00:57:41,980 --> 00:57:49,930 And I just again, I just saw it as such an incredible opportunity to understand that no matter where you're from, 564 00:57:49,930 --> 00:57:52,690 there's always common ground, no matter you know. 565 00:57:52,690 --> 00:58:01,540 And I think that ability to to see yourself in someone else allows you to also be empathetic and to talk to. 566 00:58:01,540 --> 00:58:06,070 I think, for me, encourages me to understand. 567 00:58:06,070 --> 00:58:11,080 And I'm you know, I'm not judgemental. I'm not you know, I'm not. 568 00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:17,930 I have to know somebody. I have to understand. I have to understand someone's motivation or who they are. 569 00:58:17,930 --> 00:58:22,970 And I make a huge effort to get to know people. And yeah. 570 00:58:22,970 --> 00:58:34,150 And I find that, you know, those trips were really life changing for me because I think before, especially as a British, British born black person, 571 00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:41,080 I'd see people on the TV, you know, in other countries suffering is like, oh, you know, they are over there and not here. 572 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:47,700 And it was kind of like, no, we're we're all so intrinsically connected, you know? 573 00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:55,300 And, you know, to the point where you feel it. So. And I think that was probably the speaking of my, you know, charitable journey. 574 00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:59,280 And because I went all the way to Africa, but I kind of felt like. 575 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:04,600 But what about people at home? So that kind of kind of segue was neatly into the girls clubs. 576 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:12,580 So my daughters have a business called the Magic Girls in which they sell T-shirts and hey, bubbles, little girly things. 577 00:59:12,580 --> 00:59:19,210 But they came up with an idea of doing clubs for for disadvantaged girls and them. 578 00:59:19,210 --> 00:59:25,500 And so they we put together the programme and then we delivered them for free. 579 00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:30,370 And we teach the girls how to cook. We teach them how to make stuff. 580 00:59:30,370 --> 00:59:35,770 We do arts and crafts and we have conversations. And we even did a lesson on Photoshop. 581 00:59:35,770 --> 00:59:42,700 So I was delivering like all the lessons we did, obviously a whole club about hey. 582 00:59:42,700 --> 00:59:47,110 And then it was just one of the most wonderful things I ever said to me. 583 00:59:47,110 --> 00:59:56,350 Everyone's daughter is my daughter. And so to have those kind of opportunities and share those moments with young girls in my community, you know. 584 00:59:56,350 --> 00:59:57,610 And it just, you know, 585 00:59:57,610 --> 01:00:08,660 just such a kind of reminder to me of where I've come from and how far I've come and also how fortunate I am to be in a position to give back. 586 01:00:08,660 --> 01:00:17,200 And I just love doing them. And I think that's probably the worst thing about lockdown is not being able to do, you know, do the girls clubs. 587 01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:21,380 But as soon as we can, you know, we'll be in Brooklyn and again. 588 01:00:21,380 --> 01:00:27,460 Yeah. So it must be amazing to see your daughters doing that kind of thing, you know. 589 01:00:27,460 --> 01:00:30,760 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. 590 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:36,580 And as I say, it was their idea. And, you know, they came up with the whole schedule and stuff like that and. 591 01:00:36,580 --> 01:00:42,070 And yeah, I love that. I love that kind that I've passed that kind of idea, Ron. 592 01:00:42,070 --> 01:00:47,860 You know, we don't exist alone. We you know, we have to look out for each other. 593 01:00:47,860 --> 01:00:52,120 Yeah. Yeah. It seems as if they've picked up that from me. 594 01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:57,340 So, you know, let me continue. That's a good attitude to have. 595 01:00:57,340 --> 01:01:08,910 But I think as well, knowing what we do about you. I think that the organisation skills are definitely what I say are appropriate. 596 01:01:08,910 --> 01:01:13,050 So I was like, oh, this is impressive. 597 01:01:13,050 --> 01:01:20,680 And I think that's that's really helpful for, you know, for all of us to hear that, you know, anyone's ideas can come together. 598 01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:24,520 And I think this connectedness is probably a really good point for us. 599 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:30,160 I think to to wrap this call up a lot of things today being connected. 600 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:36,280 We've talked about music, a lot about music, about perform, which is something being this week about. 601 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:42,820 You know, I think I'd like to go back to one of the points you made, which is the right some mistakes. 602 01:01:42,820 --> 01:01:51,610 And almost because of this digital age, everything's being recorded. It's the right to to to to make good on those mistakes. 603 01:01:51,610 --> 01:01:56,470 That's important. We're rural, growing Amaroo at the moment. 604 01:01:56,470 --> 01:02:00,040 Stuck inside, sir. I think I know I'm grateful for a lot. 605 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,190 And it sounds like from what you're talking about today, we're grateful to. 606 01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:10,680 Sounds like there's more coming. Thousand projects. 607 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:18,350 Thank you. Great to be able to hear more from you in person and perhaps connect again in the future. 608 01:02:18,350 --> 01:02:27,800 Yes, sir. That would be great. So all that is left for me to do is to say thank you very much to all three of you 609 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:33,170 giving us your time and your brilliant thoughts and ideas online today lives. 610 01:02:33,170 --> 01:02:43,010 So thank you, everyone. You present. Thank you. Germania. So. 611 01:02:43,010 --> 01:02:51,380 What is left for me to say is, of course, this is part of the series Big Ten Live Events, and we have another live event next week on Thursday, 612 01:02:51,380 --> 01:03:01,090 the 20th of May of five p.m., join us where Professor West Williams will be hosting two brilliant people talking about living with pandemics. 613 01:03:01,090 --> 01:03:09,820 Robin Gauna, AIDS activist and feminist, in conversation with Professor Erica Chances from the history faculty at the University of Oxford. 614 01:03:09,820 --> 01:03:13,460 We hope that you'll be able to join us again then as ever, you know. 615 01:03:13,460 --> 01:03:21,530 Join us on or live on our YouTube channel. And if you can share any questions ahead of time. 616 01:03:21,530 --> 01:03:27,138 Always great to hear from you. Thank you again. Thanks to our viewers and thanks to all speakers because.