1 00:00:00,780 --> 00:00:09,659 Okay. So, uh, welcome, everybody, and thank you for coming to our I think it's the 14th annual Roger Cook lecture. 2 00:00:09,660 --> 00:00:15,570 But as I was thinking this just before I came to in the last time that Roger corrected me kick and told me whatever number I said last year was wrong. 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,100 So it's possibly 15th annual lecture, but anyway, it's hard to notice them. 4 00:00:20,430 --> 00:00:27,810 And, and today we're very pleased to have such a representative from from the University of Oslo. 5 00:00:29,270 --> 00:00:33,270 I know Public Lecture Series was launched in 2006. 6 00:00:33,690 --> 00:00:40,470 I'm now doubting all of my dates as to the story, to honour and celebrate the long and distinguished career of Professor Roger Hirst 7 00:00:40,890 --> 00:00:44,910 and his particular contribution to criminology in Oxford and further afield. 8 00:00:46,230 --> 00:00:49,680 Over the course of his career, Roger works on a number of different topics. 9 00:00:50,310 --> 00:00:53,430 He's best known, however, for his work on capital punishment. 10 00:00:54,090 --> 00:01:02,310 And while Cultures area especially is quite different, she shares with Roger a commitment to and engagement with global matters. 11 00:01:03,180 --> 00:01:11,490 Russia's work, like cultures, is not only often based on research elsewhere, but reminds us that we live in a deeply interconnected world. 12 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:20,370 And this means that events and practices abroad affect us at home just as events and practices that we do at home affect countries elsewhere. 13 00:01:21,450 --> 00:01:24,420 So as Cultural Explains Day in her presentation, 14 00:01:25,020 --> 00:01:34,440 this kind of approach to criminology raises profound moral questions about the world we live in, our obligations to ourselves and others. 15 00:01:35,070 --> 00:01:38,190 And perhaps if we can try and find a moment of positive thinking, 16 00:01:38,190 --> 00:01:44,670 which is almost impossible these days, a way of thinking about how we might unite and work together. 17 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,090 So let me now introduce Curtis to you, and then I will hand over to her part. 18 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:54,240 Your friend CO is professor of criminology at the University of Oslo. 19 00:01:54,480 --> 00:02:00,630 She's published widely on matters of migration, borders, security and surveillance of everyday life. 20 00:02:01,380 --> 00:02:04,350 She's the author of numerous books and edited collections. 21 00:02:05,550 --> 00:02:10,800 For instance, The Globalisation of Crime, which is entering its third edition and the Borders of punishment. 22 00:02:11,340 --> 00:02:13,980 Culture, is a key figure in the field of border criminology, 23 00:02:14,310 --> 00:02:19,020 having written many of the foundational texts that open such matters up to critical inquiry. 24 00:02:19,990 --> 00:02:23,700 See. You can catch her to share with us some findings from her forthcoming book. 25 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:32,070 In her lecture, she will examine how the figure of the criminal and other has emerged not only as a central object of media and political discourse, 26 00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:36,720 but also as a distinct penal subject connecting migration and the logic of insecurity. 27 00:02:37,230 --> 00:02:47,430 So please join me in welcoming. Thank you very much. 28 00:02:47,430 --> 00:02:52,500 Mary, can you hear me okay? Thank you very much for inviting me. 29 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:54,149 I'm really pleased, 30 00:02:54,150 --> 00:03:04,680 really glad to be here and very glad particularly also to continue the connection between the University of Oslo and Oxford that Roger started. 31 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:12,719 Also with his work on death penalty and loss, not least with his friendship and cooperation with professionals, 32 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,620 Kristie, who was also my my Ph.D. supervisor. 33 00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:27,060 So I'm really glad. I'm glad about that. Actually, there aren't many academic audiences that I would like to present my work to more than this one. 34 00:03:28,050 --> 00:03:36,510 And also that I feel that I'm more scary than this one. So, um, but I think without further ado, I'll just sort of jump into this. 35 00:03:36,870 --> 00:03:42,810 And I would like to start this with a story that I encountered. 36 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:48,690 The visit to a New York museum called Lower East Side Tenement Museum. 37 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:59,340 Um, it is the museum tells a story of a building 97 Orchard Street and the migrant tenants that lived in the building over several decades. 38 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:06,840 And it's particularly the story of the building's families, Adolfo and Rosario, who, together with two year old Josephine and Baby Chong, 39 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:16,590 moved into 97 Orcutt Street in 1928, about five years after Adolfo, a stow away from Palermo, landed in New York. 40 00:04:17,220 --> 00:04:22,830 Adolfo was a skilled cabinetmaker, having begun to learn his trade at the age of 14. 41 00:04:23,370 --> 00:04:31,740 In 1935, one of the grimmest years of the Great Depression, he, like millions of others, was self employed. 42 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:42,150 Rosario, the youngest of the four children in a relatively well-off family, also from Palermo, married Adolfo when she was 16 and he was 26. 43 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:50,690 On what her daughter describes as doctored papers. Rosario also came to America illegally a year after her husband arrived. 44 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:53,430 Then to regularise their situation, 45 00:04:53,700 --> 00:05:01,710 the two left for Canada and re-entered the United States legally in moving several times before getting to Orchid Street. 46 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:07,710 They behaved like many poor tenants during the Depression. Families forgot to pay September rent, 47 00:05:07,980 --> 00:05:14,400 then moved into another building in October after having secured a month's rent concession from the new landlord. 48 00:05:16,170 --> 00:05:22,890 Now the story is in many ways remarkable and shows the long, historic trajectories of irregular migration, 49 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:28,370 as well as the longevity of the intricate connections between migration and illegality. 50 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:34,350 The desire, Adolfo story is revealing of how migrants have throughout history employed 51 00:05:34,350 --> 00:05:39,270 survivors strategies which make them vulnerable to the use of state penal power. 52 00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:44,940 The realities of a migration of poor populations create an ever expendable 53 00:05:44,940 --> 00:05:50,700 repertoire effects that this on the use of criminalisation and public condemnation. 54 00:05:51,150 --> 00:05:56,190 Illegal state as a spoke of illegal entry as a stowaway, the use of force documents. 55 00:05:56,430 --> 00:05:59,610 Illegal re-entry not paying rent and unemployment. 56 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,130 In contemporary Europe, such acts and also in America, of course, 57 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,770 such acts as these committed by race are and also both issues are increasingly met with 58 00:06:09,770 --> 00:06:15,380 state measures and ultimately deportation and cancellation of their claims to membership. 59 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:21,550 The Lower East Side Tenement Museum, on the other hand, provides a different narrative. 60 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:31,120 It isn't acknowledgement of the irregular migration and the possible path to membership and as a legitimate part of national history. 61 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:40,120 And I think it's such a dynamic school upon some of the central insights about social processes surrounding criminalisation, 62 00:06:41,530 --> 00:06:43,689 as those Christi, whom I mentioned before, 63 00:06:43,690 --> 00:06:53,950 said provocative provocatively that crime does not exist on The Exorcist X often given different meanings within various social frameworks, 64 00:06:54,490 --> 00:06:57,670 acts, and the meaning given them are our data. 65 00:06:57,700 --> 00:07:02,320 Our challenge is to follow the destiny of acts through the universe of meanings, 66 00:07:02,650 --> 00:07:09,160 particularly what are the social conditions that encourage or prevent giving the acts the meaning of being crime? 67 00:07:09,820 --> 00:07:15,040 And I think this is quite a relevant point of inquiry that I would like to pursue in this talk, 68 00:07:15,730 --> 00:07:23,469 because what I will do is sort of look at the developments through which contemporary societies, 69 00:07:23,470 --> 00:07:32,950 particularly in Europe migrants, are increasingly my effects, like the ones bye bye, bye bye bye. 70 00:07:32,980 --> 00:07:42,460 And all four of this area are increasingly seen in terms of crime, and they migrants or non-citizens are defined as penal subjects. 71 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:51,520 So what I would like to do is to sort of present or outline this condition of migrants or non-citizens as a distinct penal subject. 72 00:07:53,410 --> 00:08:00,940 The great grandfather is a figure of the unwanted. This means that she or she is unwanted. 73 00:08:00,970 --> 00:08:08,080 Not also when it comes to political discourse, but also for the liberal advocates of more humane border policies. 74 00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:18,310 The figure of the other percent is a challenge because it paints the picture of migrants as some victims in need of help and deserving of hospitality. 75 00:08:19,150 --> 00:08:28,480 So consequently, the notion of the criminal immigrant has been, to a large extent avoided also in academic discourse rather than addressed head on. 76 00:08:29,020 --> 00:08:35,890 So in a sense, you could say that if migration is a sort of a tornado that's reshaping political landscapes in contemporary society, 77 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,180 this notion has been very much sort of thing still in the eye of the tornado. 78 00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:43,780 And I think this is an omission that sort of needs to be corrected. 79 00:08:44,950 --> 00:08:52,450 The great grandmother is by no means an attractive word. Even worse, it is, as I'm sure that Christine would have probably said a dangerous word. 80 00:08:52,690 --> 00:08:58,180 It is a word which has the potential to preclude a deeper understanding and can prevent dialogue. 81 00:08:58,750 --> 00:09:06,520 At the same time, this sort of thing is going to give us an understanding of some very central social dynamics that are taking place right now, 82 00:09:06,970 --> 00:09:14,590 especially connecting the logic of insecurity surrounding migration and the use of, you know, and even military power. 83 00:09:15,310 --> 00:09:25,450 So what I what I will do is sort of try to outline several several sort of defining features as I see them of the criminal and other. 84 00:09:26,110 --> 00:09:37,150 Now, these features have been presented in the work of the work of others, many of whom are also present in this audience at the same time. 85 00:09:37,310 --> 00:09:46,590 What I will do is to try to to draw on the findings of a research project that I conducted together with my colleague Kilimnik, 86 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:51,940 and his interviews with about 78 police officers conducting immigration control, 87 00:09:52,030 --> 00:09:56,140 particularly those predominantly in Norway, but also in Frontex operations. 88 00:09:58,060 --> 00:10:01,420 The interviews were conducted between 2012 and 2016. 89 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,970 Now, so the empirical foundations would be mostly drawn from a Norwegian reality. 90 00:10:07,210 --> 00:10:12,910 But I'm hoping that to to to draw out of this some sort of more general insights. 91 00:10:14,140 --> 00:10:19,629 One of the first and perhaps most obviously discussed features of the criminal career and other is of course, 92 00:10:19,630 --> 00:10:24,670 the political and the media aspects of it. And these are the countries that I would use the least time on. 93 00:10:25,570 --> 00:10:32,110 They have been described to me. Nicholas, the general has joined India and the work of war has described it as a spectacle. 94 00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:39,100 The search of the images and the discourses are flooding information for trade migrants as a threat. 95 00:10:39,370 --> 00:10:46,870 I think what is important here is that the spectacular is not only related to this sort of the threat aspects, 96 00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:52,600 but also to the aspects of exclusion and the the stage aspects of security. 97 00:10:52,930 --> 00:10:59,379 So that image on on the right hand on the top is actually a photograph taken at a 98 00:10:59,380 --> 00:11:05,830 staged exercise in some sense by the Austrian police with the border regions of India, 99 00:11:06,070 --> 00:11:13,209 where the migrants are actually the actors who are being hired to sort of showcase the the sovereign power 100 00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:19,240 of the Austrian police and the ability of the Austrian state to sort of control control of its borders. 101 00:11:20,540 --> 00:11:28,560 This spectacular is not only sort of confined to the sort of openly populist political climate, 102 00:11:29,090 --> 00:11:34,190 uh, uh, in countries like Libya, such as Hungary and the United States, but also Norway. 103 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,080 Norway had this what has been described as its Arctic free snow. 104 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:47,270 I know that the quality is not very good. But in in the January 2016 or winter 2015, 105 00:11:48,650 --> 00:12:00,860 about five in 5500 mostly Syrian refugees came to it for asylum seekers trying to cross Norway's Arctic border with Russia on bikes, 106 00:12:02,210 --> 00:12:06,530 which sort of created a lot of the sort of political debates about it. 107 00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:16,820 And for a period of time, Norwegian authorities started sending them back in through the -32 degrees, freezing on bikes back to Russia. 108 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:21,880 Now, this many people were sent that way. I think it was about 300 people, actually. 109 00:12:21,890 --> 00:12:22,660 I mean, it's not. 110 00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:32,960 Uh, nevertheless, but it was this sort of spectacular extent of, of social exclusion, which I think is quite unusual for a country like Norway. 111 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,210 But as I said, I was focussed. This won't be the main focus. 112 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:43,510 What I am interested in is very much the sort of the everyday bureaucratic practices of production, 113 00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:52,300 of the careers of others, and following sharp assignments that focus encouragements to follow the body. 114 00:12:53,440 --> 00:13:00,880 I think one of the defining features of the Kreeger and others is the relationship between migrants Bobby and the state. 115 00:13:01,630 --> 00:13:09,550 One of the first things that happens when a migrant enters a European state is that his or her fingerprints are being taken. 116 00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:15,770 This fingerprints and that are those tags into the system. 117 00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:24,260 Your index system that allocates the responsibility for processing of asylum claims to different European, European countries. 118 00:13:25,070 --> 00:13:28,490 Now, what is interesting to see here is this. 119 00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:35,520 What European states are trying to do is sort of trying to create processes 120 00:13:35,850 --> 00:13:43,440 connecting truth about migrants with their state defined systems of of knowledge. 121 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,020 This is not something which is news, 122 00:13:46,890 --> 00:13:56,850 as James Scott had sort of a very eloquent convention about it is that the creation of magical people is one of the defining features of statecraft. 123 00:13:58,110 --> 00:14:05,319 It is what is necessary for states to allocate rights, property rights and all kinds of welfare benefits, 124 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,970 good health benefits and so on to to their populations. 125 00:14:09,690 --> 00:14:15,180 And it has been, as a scaffold, a talking point of this sort of identity. 126 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:21,380 The Tory logic is it also includes the need to identify and track those who have 127 00:14:21,390 --> 00:14:25,560 wondered or travel beyond the circles in which they were personally known. 128 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,450 This is what biometrics does. It's not just biometrics. 129 00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:32,190 What other aspects are using it? 130 00:14:32,190 --> 00:14:46,830 For example, in Norway at least, it's quite common for those who are at this to use tests to test to to to a certain the age of an asylum seekers. 131 00:14:47,370 --> 00:14:53,600 And the point here is that the thought is that these people come with are seen as not trustworthy. 132 00:14:53,610 --> 00:15:02,160 What is seen as trustworthy is their bodies to become certain bearers of truth, very much technologically and scientifically minded, it gets true. 133 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:09,090 And what is also important here is this this establishment of truth often involves the use of force. 134 00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:17,129 So EU Commission, for example, in May 2006 to establish if migrants do not cooperate, 135 00:15:17,130 --> 00:15:23,190 Member States should make use of specific and limited use of detention and use use coercion as a 136 00:15:23,190 --> 00:15:30,630 last resort in order to get the fingerprints and sort of to make this this databases operable. 137 00:15:32,580 --> 00:15:36,560 And what is also, I think, important here, that it is, 138 00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:45,780 even though this kind of logic sort of resembles very much what states have always been trying to do in terms of creating the actual people. 139 00:15:45,930 --> 00:15:50,010 This attempt to create legibility today are global. 140 00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:54,390 So the states are not only trying to identify their own populations, 141 00:15:54,780 --> 00:16:00,870 but they are trying to identify populations of other states and trying to search on their identity. 142 00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:09,810 So Norway or the UK, for example, are trying to find out who these people are, whether they come from Somalia or Afghanistan mainly. 143 00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:18,540 Also, not only to be able to get the rights, but also to be able to deport them because identity but being identified as a 144 00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:25,610 citizen of a different of another state is the cornerstone of the portability of. 145 00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:33,330 And when it comes to bodies, of course, bodies are also bearers of threat. 146 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:39,400 And here's one police officer describing how, for example, they're doing deportation. 147 00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:46,320 He says, we are not health personnel are in principle not supposed to get this type of information. 148 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:53,070 I'm not supposed to ask about it either, of course. But what is very interesting, though, is already contagious. 149 00:16:53,390 --> 00:16:57,270 Is it natural to use a face mask? Do you have tuberculosis, HIV? 150 00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:04,590 Preferably to trick everyone, just like in prisons. They have just same problem there for everyone as if they were contagious. 151 00:17:04,950 --> 00:17:10,740 Use gloves. Do not let anyone cross directly at you. If someone is getting them out, use a face mask. 152 00:17:11,070 --> 00:17:19,559 Always be careful about blood. So my point here is that the immigrant other very much has sort of bodily dimensions 153 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:27,030 that I think are important aspects of his or her relationship with the state. 154 00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:36,000 Now, of course, one of the most vital, important aspects is the legal question or the question of inequality. 155 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:42,959 And as husband guilt sort of summarises, she says it was very similar to some illegal immigrants. 156 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:51,900 Is someone in respect of whose presence on the territory of the state, the state has passed the law making their existence a criminal offence. 157 00:17:52,380 --> 00:17:54,940 It is puts it sort of quite bluntly, but I think it's quite, 158 00:17:55,110 --> 00:18:00,929 quite an important point here that basically a section of the board also has said that the xolo, 159 00:18:00,930 --> 00:18:12,509 the being born in the global south becomes a legal handicap, that this this this person's person sort of carries with them and sees him. 160 00:18:12,510 --> 00:18:18,600 And you've done the going to say that this is quite different when it comes to sort of penalising these kinds of offences, 161 00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:24,240 because when it comes to punishment in most modern legal systems, it is the conduct that counts. 162 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:33,010 Not legal status in immigration law. However, the relationship between legal conduct and status is inherently quite complicated. 163 00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:37,410 Illegality is close to becoming like the custodial condition. 164 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:44,950 Now I'll show you some examples of how the officers that we talked to described describe this and then next. 165 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:52,410 So here here's one officer from Osler police describes describing a meeting with an Afghan citizen. 166 00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:56,610 It was told that this he gave false personal information, I guess. 167 00:18:57,180 --> 00:19:00,660 And yes, he does say this picture gives false information to the police. 168 00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:05,400 You have committed a criminal offence. This is grounds for deportation. 169 00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:13,110 The moment he gets a negative response on his asylum application, it means that he can be sent out with a ban on coming back again, 170 00:19:13,690 --> 00:19:18,030 opposed to that of being sent forward and coming back the next day as a tourist. 171 00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:23,730 This is something that we have sometimes kept in mind because it's happened before, in a manner of speaking. 172 00:19:23,940 --> 00:19:28,080 One knows what's going on. That's you, my friend. Smells like trouble. 173 00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:36,630 Now, who smells like trouble is very much defined by racial and gender aspects of their identity. 174 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,570 So it's not, you know, so it's not admissible if this was a question of a male Afghan citizens. 175 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:52,290 But it sort of confirms this sort of existential condition pertaining to illegality, which, for example, Erickson described is sort of in search of. 176 00:19:52,830 --> 00:19:59,250 This is the kind of defining feature of some of these defining aspects of somebody's identity. 177 00:20:00,770 --> 00:20:05,120 Here's another officer describing a different situation, 178 00:20:06,620 --> 00:20:13,129 saying also from Buffalo Police District saying what they are looking for is, is this a person who does criminal activities? 179 00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:18,710 And also, if we think this is behaving in a way which suggests that he's been crime. 180 00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:24,080 Then we go in and do an immigration check to find out about his identity and background. 181 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:28,370 And then you can quickly see in his phone activity is like, do you got wides? 182 00:20:28,370 --> 00:20:29,510 Do you got coat price? 183 00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:38,870 I mean, that's kind of his within the piece doing shady business and then it is natural to do take a step towards the criminal law track. 184 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,520 What happens next is that we are discover he has the drugs on him. 185 00:20:43,970 --> 00:20:47,630 If he doesn't, we can start asking questions about immigration law. 186 00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:51,980 And then you can quickly see, for example, has he been in Norway long? 187 00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:58,250 Is he hiding information about his means of sustenance in Norway and all that is relevant to immigration law? 188 00:20:59,030 --> 00:21:04,490 And then we arrest him on immigration law, first and foremost, because we see that he's been crime, 189 00:21:04,850 --> 00:21:12,319 but we cannot prove it in criminal law and sort of this interchangeability of immigration and criminal law that has been also described, 190 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:21,020 but to this point and other immigration law is very much a defining feature of this kind of condition, of your legality being a suspect. 191 00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:23,900 Sure to be an existential condition. 192 00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:36,560 And it is what what kind of has described as finding the person first and then finding an offence that you can pin on them. 193 00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:48,200 Um, another feature of course is criminalisation for pertaining to sort of criminalisation of offences connected to, 194 00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:54,499 to immigration law and a debate just anybody has written about the British reality 195 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:59,150 of this and pointed out that often these are the moments that are quite symbolic. 196 00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:07,280 Now in Norway, the criminalisation has been particularly related to breaches of entry ban. 197 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:16,490 Authorities in 2013 increased the penalties from six months, maximum six months imprisonment to two years. 198 00:22:17,630 --> 00:22:24,620 And I think what is interesting is that in the White Paper preceding the the increase in penalties, 199 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:31,339 they wrote the government wrote the proposition can in addition contribute to the reduction of other types 200 00:22:31,340 --> 00:22:36,889 of criminality in Norway since a large proportion of those cross punished for breaches of the entry. 201 00:22:36,890 --> 00:22:43,190 Them are also reported for a reported for for convicted of other types of crimes. 202 00:22:43,670 --> 00:22:52,490 In addition, those who breached entry then went for a longer period than before not be able to commit new offences while they are in prison. 203 00:22:52,820 --> 00:23:02,200 This effect is likely to be substantial. So we see that that's the measure is directed at the particular perceived group of class 204 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,030 of people who this work is believe are systematically associated with criminality. 205 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:19,030 And what we see is that that verges on the end for them have become a very sort of rather substantial sort of part of a of a prison psychosis, 206 00:23:19,030 --> 00:23:21,460 a third of the total that are being given out in Norway. 207 00:23:21,820 --> 00:23:29,890 Statistics Norway recently published the statistics saying that from less than 2000 prison days per year before 2009, 208 00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:37,390 these kinds of offences consist now of over 74 prison days since 2016. 209 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,760 So we see that this is not just symbolic criminalisation, but it is actually quite real. 210 00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:51,880 And about two thirds or 33% of the region prisoners are, um, uh, are foreign citizens. 211 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,720 Now. The final aspect of the film. 212 00:23:57,790 --> 00:24:05,529 Thus, the subjectivity of the critic or other is the possibility that again has been, at least in the Norwegian context, 213 00:24:05,530 --> 00:24:13,430 very much subjected to an increased, uh, use of state, uh, state courts and sanctions. 214 00:24:13,870 --> 00:24:20,290 And here is another officer to explain how this transition from before to now has taken place. 215 00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:27,339 He is working in the north and my right before it was more like this crisis came in and wants to 216 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:32,559 come to terms with came in and it was almost random how we discovered things the way we do it. 217 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,850 Now we have a scheme with what we call responsible investigator. 218 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:41,340 The risk that you are responsible, you have the responsibility to grow, 219 00:24:41,380 --> 00:24:47,410 to go through all police registers, that is all databases into which police register information. 220 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,250 It was a different focus then. It was not something one focussed on. 221 00:24:51,550 --> 00:24:56,379 It was like at the end of the year, yes, we have stolen so many expulsion cases now. 222 00:24:56,380 --> 00:25:04,120 It is from the very beginning. That is from January. We go through what we have to produce, what is expected of each one of us. 223 00:25:04,450 --> 00:25:08,560 And in our unit we have to produce 75 expulsion cases. 224 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:16,990 And this does not mean that we shall deport 75 persons, but we have to produce 75 expulsion cases that we instigate. 225 00:25:18,990 --> 00:25:24,460 So it's like a non-citizen of a given state. The immigrant other is potentially deportable. 226 00:25:25,060 --> 00:25:30,850 This means that he or she can not only be sanctioned by a community to various forms of social censure 227 00:25:31,180 --> 00:25:36,670 punishment and exclusive to specially designated spaces such as prisons and correctional institution. 228 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:44,280 For his perceived brilliance, the immigrant others can see and often is sanctioned with a complete and permanent, 229 00:25:44,620 --> 00:25:54,190 often permanent exclusion from the community. All of their community networks and social ties and put off by the punitive administrative sanctions. 230 00:25:54,820 --> 00:26:03,760 Now, what I think this quote also shows that the portability is also a result of specific bureaucratic production, 231 00:26:04,570 --> 00:26:09,850 that it depends on the state's willingness to produce this kind of results. 232 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:19,780 In Norwegian case, for example, officers who are systematically educated through seminars how to deport more people and the results are quite visible, 233 00:26:20,350 --> 00:26:24,210 particularly between 2007 and 2006. 234 00:26:24,250 --> 00:26:38,380 In 2006, it was it would be tough to hear the state sort of forcefully deported 8070 878 people, which is almost four times as many as in 2007. 235 00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:50,080 Many of these expulsions pertain to the category of expulsion, rejection of people who have a criminal conviction. 236 00:26:50,110 --> 00:26:57,849 Many of them are from Eastern Europe because as Eastern European citizens, they have in principle rights to staying away. 237 00:26:57,850 --> 00:27:00,750 So in order to be deported, they have to be punished first. 238 00:27:00,790 --> 00:27:07,690 And we discovered that often punishments are very minor and can sort of have to do only with fines. 239 00:27:08,050 --> 00:27:11,950 Nevertheless, the deportation is the result of it. 240 00:27:12,940 --> 00:27:20,770 So you can say that in a way no one has brought this. What my colleagues have described is a deportation machine. 241 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:28,990 And this is partly because rumour has it the term defined deportation as a performance targets for the police. 242 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:35,600 So the police districts are measured according to how many how many deportation cases they instigate, as we saw. 243 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,840 And this has been a very sort of effective, effective way of of increasing the numbers. 244 00:27:41,710 --> 00:27:52,960 Now another feature, um, of the Crimea grandfather, which I will not use so much time on, is, of course, the power of knowledge, productive relations. 245 00:27:54,290 --> 00:27:57,560 And again, I'm sorry about the quality of the images, 246 00:27:57,860 --> 00:28:04,340 but what I would like to sort of point out is that as we saw that when it comes to the protection targets, that. 247 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:09,860 The other is very much subjective to the measurement to the production of knowledge. 248 00:28:10,190 --> 00:28:15,280 So on the on, on your left hand side and from there you have a Frontex report statistic. 249 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:23,450 It's these top ten nationalities, cocktail nationalities, a sort of almost ocean road that's at least in Norway, but also in Frontex reports. 250 00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:30,800 And so the police have four sort of creating scale sort of divisions of foreign nationals. 251 00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:38,390 Then you have top notes, nationalities of illegal entry, top of nationalities of of use of force documents and so on. 252 00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:44,690 The measurements also for case like on the right hand side to the to the sort of measuring the the 253 00:28:44,690 --> 00:28:49,850 the criminal genic nature of of immigrant population and their differences with native population. 254 00:28:50,390 --> 00:28:56,840 But I think is also important to the commitment, as I have written about elsewhere, is what is not being measured. 255 00:28:57,950 --> 00:29:07,580 The aspects of migrants, victimisation of vulnerability, like, for example, the numbers of people dying at the border in the Mediterranean, 256 00:29:07,820 --> 00:29:14,059 which is not a state responsibility and which is not no European state does systematically, 257 00:29:14,060 --> 00:29:26,330 but is rather sort of uh, the basket has been taken over now by, by NGOs and non-governmental organisations. 258 00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:36,650 So I think these are sort of the main aspects of what you could call the criminal and other that I think I could use one lecture on each one of them, 259 00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:46,070 but it just I hopefully they give an overview. Now to summarise the criminal and other is subjective to distinct form of analysis, 260 00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:57,490 analysis and a distinct team regime that to and to end because one that others have a have a have described in in much greater detail. 261 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,600 It is a penal regime that is mixing elements of immigration law and criminal law. 262 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:16,070 And it is sort of the use of penal power which produces alien, which it is not veto power, whose purpose is to sort of correct the morally reformed. 263 00:30:16,550 --> 00:30:19,580 But it is its purpose is to banish and exclude. 264 00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:25,730 So this this transformation has to describe the transformation from a narcissism to ban of the system. 265 00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:32,389 And this year, because this has pointed out in the recent context, 266 00:30:32,390 --> 00:30:39,110 this contrast is particularly striking because the the the inclusion even of 267 00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:43,520 people who are committed of serious criminal offences has always been the norm, 268 00:30:43,820 --> 00:30:52,610 the westward formality and so on. So I think Norway is a particularly good example of what Linda Bolton has described as hard on the outside self, 269 00:30:52,610 --> 00:31:00,170 on the inside conception of citizenship, Norway's use of very sort of extensive use of the flotation devices application. 270 00:31:00,470 --> 00:31:12,860 Well, so I think in the European context, that could be described as a sort of duplication among the duplication leaders is, uh, is remarkable. 271 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:19,280 Vanessa Barker has written about this similar dynamics when it comes to Sweden and the worry of the welfare state. 272 00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:31,220 Now what can you do in the of the remaining this time is to sort of look at aspects of this other or you could say to work. 273 00:31:32,170 --> 00:31:42,079 This particular subject does not in terms of sort of criminalisation, cities, recession and so on, but in terms of sort of the moral aspects. 274 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:49,880 Or you could say that this the migration of migrants today are not seen to securitise criminalise, but also I think more laws. 275 00:31:51,140 --> 00:32:05,540 And I would start with a rather sort of long, uh, quote from a parliamentary inquiry that took place in Norway in February 2015, 276 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:11,240 following the protection of longstanding children with families and families, 277 00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:18,080 um, where were deported were criticised for deporting this group where they should 278 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,170 that there was a political agreement that this group should not be deported. 279 00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:25,219 Yes, there were almost sort of sort of there were part of this, 280 00:32:25,220 --> 00:32:31,100 this push towards achieving deportation targets and the police sort of found themselves on the spot for that. 281 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:38,899 And the union representative of the police immigration unit said the following It is in the 282 00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:44,670 employees interest to know whether what they are doing is morally and ethically completely right. 283 00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:53,600 It is difficult for them to deport asylum seekers with a negative final decision if they are in doubt that this is the right thing to do. 284 00:32:54,170 --> 00:32:58,640 This is why we need to know through political processes that this is an agreed policy. 285 00:32:59,150 --> 00:33:04,220 We cannot do anything about this because the once we, the courts have a final decision. 286 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:12,170 So we're doing something that is legal, but the moral and ethical, this is important for people as well. 287 00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:16,160 This is a very difficult job. It is a burden for the employees. 288 00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:23,900 It is a burden to be for families with children. It can be a burden to the courts, single adults with children as well, without children as well. 289 00:33:24,620 --> 00:33:32,090 A lot of our employees are concerned about doing the things that right so that they can go home and have a good conscience. 290 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:38,330 They have done a good job and not have a bad conscience, even though many of them probably have. 291 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:49,270 Now, I think that this this quote shows that the use of people power at the border is in many ways deeply problematic also for the people. 292 00:33:50,030 --> 00:33:55,030 The people before you and can create this moral discomfort. 293 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:04,600 Now, it should also be pointed out that the controversy in this case was regarding the protection of children, which I think is also important. 294 00:34:05,410 --> 00:34:09,610 And it is particularly in this context of this moral discomfort, 295 00:34:10,150 --> 00:34:16,180 that the notion of a notion of the criminal and other performs the certain kind of work, 296 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:23,530 as Erikson has pointed out, is that forms of behaviour are a valuable resource in this society. 297 00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:31,210 Or, as Tony Morrison recently, more recently said, that there are major benefits in creating and sustaining another. 298 00:34:31,930 --> 00:34:40,030 And what I would like to discuss or consider this stuff is precisely what kind of benefits or the resources, 299 00:34:40,390 --> 00:34:49,360 the sort of the idea of of criminal criminal migrants have for that poor performance of border work and more generally, 300 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:57,790 for the processes of social exclusion. Because what I would like to suggest is that this figure does it is pulling together 301 00:34:57,790 --> 00:35:03,129 a regime of governments combining penal and military power on the one hand, 302 00:35:03,130 --> 00:35:11,970 and actually humanitarian rationality on the other hand. And again, I would use another quote from this time from from uh. 303 00:35:12,050 --> 00:35:22,220 From uh. Let me see from a newspaper report The Guardian reports on on the visit of the French president, Emmanuel Macron, 304 00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:30,650 to colleagues who where she said where the report says that he also warned law enforcement officers their 305 00:35:30,650 --> 00:35:37,160 behaviour must be exemplary and reminded them this Migrants were people who have travelled continents. 306 00:35:37,610 --> 00:35:42,110 These men and women are human beings. It is a very tough mission and free. 307 00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:48,110 You must be exemplary and excellent respect of professional ethics and excellent respect of the law. 308 00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:51,770 This is not working waking people up in the middle of the night. 309 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:58,640 Most of you can see your guest during those times, he said. And it's such a behaviour he warned would be punished. 310 00:35:59,210 --> 00:36:02,990 Now, I mean, obviously this is a deeply paradoxical statement, 311 00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:11,240 but at the same time as even though, uh, uh, this, you say that this sort of the particular, 312 00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:16,459 that this sort of use of tear gas during his time or the practice also of whipping up 313 00:36:16,460 --> 00:36:22,040 families in the middle of the night is also was sort of we find similar kinds of concerns, 314 00:36:22,460 --> 00:36:31,330 uh, in our, in our interviews. So here's one of his first, um, from before this immigration mutiny saying the same. 315 00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:35,770 I think the dynamic is about position perspective against the criminal. 316 00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:40,250 So this. So these students and what somehow does not manage to see both. 317 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:49,550 You wish to be efficient and not come in vain. So coming up at 4:00 in the morning is perhaps efficient because you know, this people will be there. 318 00:36:50,060 --> 00:36:56,960 But this is it is tough for those who are exposed to this is when it is reported in the media, then you have that aspect as well. 319 00:36:57,290 --> 00:37:02,060 Is it necessary, unnecessary use of power and unnecessary use of force and such? 320 00:37:02,540 --> 00:37:06,140 So the case is this. I think that these things are a bit difficult. 321 00:37:06,830 --> 00:37:13,340 And even though we feel perhaps that there is no substance, it is in criticism that we are following the rules, 322 00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:17,180 what we are look forward for that we are doing things properly. 323 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:24,500 I think that at least we know that there is also that aspect because because quite often the focus is the opposite. 324 00:37:24,890 --> 00:37:29,210 You get a very negative focus on for four nursing asylum seekers so suspicious. 325 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:40,459 So I think this statement is revealing that the communities of border control are sort of happening in a deeply problematic, 326 00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:49,340 contentious field and under intense media scrutiny so that you have this sort of the the figures 327 00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:55,910 of both the question are the victims or the offenders and how to behave humanely in deeply, 328 00:37:56,540 --> 00:38:05,989 deeply inhumane situations. And. There has been work by, among others, Mary Bosworth and others, 329 00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:13,280 pointing out that the officers performing these kinds of or also detentions test and so of performing these kinds 330 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:20,600 of tasks using various materialisation techniques and denials to be able to cope with these kinds of tasks. 331 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:30,230 And that often sort of what one tries to prioritise deportation of criminal offenders rather than deportation of children, for example. 332 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:42,330 And to understand this, I've sort of been examining the work that has been done on the concept of moral economy, 333 00:38:43,290 --> 00:38:50,920 the concept which is sort of popular popularised by by E.P. Thompson in his 1971 seminal essay. 334 00:38:51,900 --> 00:39:00,360 It was a firm analysis of food choices in the 18th century and sort of looking at delegitimization of royalty in the eyes of the participants. 335 00:39:00,780 --> 00:39:05,190 And the concept of moral economy has been in recent decades through decades, 336 00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:14,010 sort of resurrected for the particular divided by the Jefferson and his co-workers in the sort of developing style of moral anthropology, 337 00:39:14,430 --> 00:39:23,010 also by Philip Bourgeois, looking at the two practices of families and so on. 338 00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:33,330 And the concept has been through this sort of transdisciplinary migration freedom class conversation. 339 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:40,970 And Thompson was already in 1991, was quite critical of this use of the concepts of the class, class conversation. 340 00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:44,460 Um, also, society acknowledges that, that, 341 00:39:45,690 --> 00:39:59,160 that the concept runs the danger of sort of being meaningless or banal at the same time as it has been useful doing or understanding the particular 342 00:39:59,180 --> 00:40:07,470 deconstruction of patristic meanings which are given to certain acts which might otherwise be constructed according to other imperatives, 343 00:40:07,740 --> 00:40:12,990 such as, for example, waking children at families in the middle of the night and so on. 344 00:40:13,590 --> 00:40:20,760 And I think it is it can be useful for understanding the paradoxical nature of the exercise of power in humanitarian fallen. 345 00:40:21,780 --> 00:40:27,940 Now, if we are to bring it also closer to Thompson's words and the meaning that he gave Keith. 346 00:40:28,350 --> 00:40:33,270 I think also there is another aspect that at least in our material, that we find very interesting parallels. 347 00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:40,170 Because he's situated in the changing nature of work and production and the impact 348 00:40:40,170 --> 00:40:44,159 of mass market switching and most mass production at home from craftsmanship, 349 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:50,430 craftsmanship, or the transformation from craftsmanship to two mass mass production. 350 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:56,710 And if these kinds of transformations can create intense morals and moral engagement, 351 00:40:57,250 --> 00:41:01,910 I think, oh, Carol, we actually found out that officers were engaged. 352 00:41:01,930 --> 00:41:07,569 They were opposed. They were criticising these kinds of practices, often not through direct, 353 00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:14,860 sort of directly expressed sympathies with migrants, but with the feelings that that their work, 354 00:41:14,860 --> 00:41:22,570 particularly through the corrosive impact of, uh, of new public management, were sort of reduced in terms of professionalism. 355 00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:29,050 And this kind of critique was actually quite also higher up in the system, not just that's not just on the ground level. 356 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:38,530 So are a statement. It was an official statement given by a great leader of the Police Leaders Union in 2007. 357 00:41:38,530 --> 00:41:46,329 Since the first frequent controls of individuals can be experienced as experienced as a burden with more resources 358 00:41:46,330 --> 00:41:52,930 for detection and the protection follows extra pressure on police districts to deliver on the performance targets. 359 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,060 Those who are to be deported do not have to wait in asylum centres. 360 00:41:58,390 --> 00:42:02,290 They have to be found. In some cases. The focus has been on the residents. 361 00:42:02,650 --> 00:42:05,979 Just increase the numbers focuses on performance, 362 00:42:05,980 --> 00:42:14,140 but focusing on performance targets can be it to reduce stress in the police amongst people who feel they have been unfairly treated. 363 00:42:14,590 --> 00:42:17,620 It can be directly destructive for the reputation of the police. 364 00:42:20,290 --> 00:42:27,670 Now similar sentiments also sort of framing the idea in terms of the critique in terms of of morality 365 00:42:28,090 --> 00:42:34,210 was also were also expressed in the following interview with the Women's Experience Officer. 366 00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:36,160 You can also see. 367 00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:44,650 Well, it can be said that internally within police, within the police, there are different understandings of how to apply immigration law. 368 00:42:45,070 --> 00:42:50,980 It is just as well. If this came out, some look at this form, this from an ethical perspective. 369 00:42:51,010 --> 00:42:58,450 That is us. While others are much more concerned with performance targets and such and the ethical side saying the 370 00:42:58,450 --> 00:43:04,060 performance targets are wrong way of doing the work and admits that this is a sensitive field to work in. 371 00:43:04,510 --> 00:43:09,520 Well, it seems to me that the others, the other side have not reflected on this well enough. 372 00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:14,260 I know that within the police immigration news, there are disagreements as well. 373 00:43:16,050 --> 00:43:24,330 So we can see that there is actually definitely there was a fair amount of debate within the police itself, 374 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:34,170 whether the this sort of transformation towards a focus on the immigration law in that location was, was the right way to go. 375 00:43:34,940 --> 00:43:38,790 Uh, and the officers felt that they were being under pressure. 376 00:43:39,330 --> 00:43:42,840 And in this kind of context, as I suggested, 377 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:50,850 is that the notion of the community and to serve the kind of work and it was summarised by guys like this are shown during this parliamentary debate. 378 00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:56,700 So I could say that the police wish to do a good and professional job and work 379 00:43:56,710 --> 00:44:02,520 strongly against criminals or those who have become criminals with a final decision. 380 00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:09,120 So the final decision pertains to the legality of, of, of the importation decisions, 381 00:44:09,450 --> 00:44:14,279 whereas the connection between professional trials and criminal criminals is actually 382 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:19,470 quite an important aspect because they wish to define their work as a way of sort of, 383 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,970 uh, sort of excluded criminal, criminal offenders. 384 00:44:25,780 --> 00:44:29,900 So the notion of the criminal court other than the work is key. 385 00:44:30,460 --> 00:44:39,250 It's mostly because it's this power. It has he has the power to make difficult decisions and to constitute moral boundaries. 386 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:47,890 This is why boundaries are sort of being constituted on several levels of the nation and through deportation practices, 387 00:44:49,060 --> 00:44:55,870 Anderson points out, states nation states are not just sort of arbitrary collections of individuals. 388 00:44:56,230 --> 00:45:06,310 They are communities of values. But these distinctions are also happening within the level of what might be described as humanitarian consciousness. 389 00:45:07,660 --> 00:45:14,080 We're talking Costello has described this distinction between refugees and other migrants. 390 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:22,510 Where did the notion that the category of refugees is sort of carved out, out of the category of either migrants, 391 00:45:22,780 --> 00:45:31,630 where most of the efforts, humanitarian efforts are focussed on them, where a while the others sort of become become obscures. 392 00:45:32,050 --> 00:45:39,910 Mary Box was hosting her work describes how, for example, foreign men are racialized and gender talk are defined as racial and gender brothers. 393 00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:47,799 So these ideas about migrants, of course, the grandfathers sort of creates hierarchies and distinctions between migrants, 394 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,030 between good and bad victims and defenders members and non-members. 395 00:45:52,030 --> 00:45:53,860 And deserving and not deserving. 396 00:45:55,160 --> 00:46:02,569 And it is precisely because these lines of distinction are framed in a language where language of goodness and empathy, 397 00:46:02,570 --> 00:46:14,750 as the Sun also has pointed out, it has difficulties actually in articulating a discourse of rights, justice and inclusion for the idea of migrants. 398 00:46:16,580 --> 00:46:23,030 And I think this book becomes particularly noticeable when it comes to the discussions about smuggling, 399 00:46:23,810 --> 00:46:28,790 which are particularly shaping the dynamics of the external borders of the U.S., 400 00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:37,010 where the notion of of of the use of the illegal smuggler has sort of become a kind of suitable enemy, 401 00:46:38,180 --> 00:46:44,870 where the responsibility is particularly for the most tragic aspects of border control, such as migrant mortality. 402 00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:55,810 The Mediterranean is very much squarely placed on, on this sort of evil and very organised criminal organisation organisations. 403 00:46:56,300 --> 00:47:05,120 So Frontex, for example, in their reports they write that the rising death toll may be results from criminal activities aimed at making 404 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:14,389 profits through the provision of smuggling services at any cost and in the work discipline and ideas on Frontex, 405 00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:23,120 for example, they describe sort of a much more graphically in one of their reports. 406 00:47:23,130 --> 00:47:31,670 Uh, there's an officer describing the incident or where, where he, because I was on a mission last week. 407 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,860 This is from a Frontex report. It was force aides to force nine thunderstorms with hail. 408 00:47:37,220 --> 00:47:39,800 We got a call that there was a search and rescue case. 409 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:45,730 We started looking just as a scene where they got very bad and destructive boats were reported missing. 410 00:47:45,740 --> 00:47:50,960 Eight of them had been washed out onto the shore. Among these, there were the seven year old girl. 411 00:47:51,260 --> 00:47:56,000 This girl had been promised private in the European Union, but she had been cheated of her life. 412 00:47:56,330 --> 00:48:00,920 She paid to be dead in a of tasers. The people traffickers left her to die. 413 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:10,470 It is very painful, very distressing. So we have very much this innocent victim of the innocent of these girls. 414 00:48:10,510 --> 00:48:18,510 And as the figure of the of the illegal traffickers. Julian Brashear, Houston. 415 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:23,490 Recent research on trafficking networks in North Africa points out that migrant 416 00:48:23,490 --> 00:48:27,570 deaths are not interpreted as in the fortunate product of border control. 417 00:48:27,870 --> 00:48:35,700 But this is compelling proof of the need to keep fighting the infamous smuggling networks that they can have an advantage of the misery of others. 418 00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:41,670 So this notion of the evil networks becomes a justification for stricter border control, 419 00:48:43,470 --> 00:48:50,310 even though Rockefeller Sanchez has pointed out the reliance on smuggling and not just from the lack of accessible vehicle and safe 420 00:48:50,310 --> 00:48:59,790 mechanisms for mobility and the sort of the organised crime nature of these networks is very much disputed in empirical scholarship. 421 00:49:02,130 --> 00:49:12,860 So to sort of uh, approach conclusion, uh, I would like to say that in a sense the, the, the, the, 422 00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:24,540 the idea of the immigrant father has important aspects in terms of sort of creating and justifying the strict control measures. 423 00:49:25,020 --> 00:49:32,850 Now when it starts to sort of become problematic is when we have categories like when it comes to, for example, children mentioned before. 424 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:38,100 For us here we have one officer describing the following. 425 00:49:38,970 --> 00:49:46,980 A policeman has never read about a war that is not good fight because Norwegian police made serious mistakes during the war years. 426 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:52,380 It is a shameful side of our region police history. It's not it should not happen. 427 00:49:52,740 --> 00:50:00,570 The police, in a way, start hunting down groups and minorities which are keeping away from crime just because they are from one group of people. 428 00:50:00,870 --> 00:50:06,480 Well, this is wrong. It's not like it's not for which you have said is your greatest for Pakistan, for this person. 429 00:50:06,990 --> 00:50:14,500 So it's right. What's the point for you? Well, I think what is interesting about this statement is two things. 430 00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:19,330 In this case, it is not the fault of the innocent child, but it is equally innocent. 431 00:50:19,340 --> 00:50:23,200 Seven year old grace from Pakistan. This doesn't feel right. 432 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:28,630 It is the sort of the criminal the criminal criminal aspects of their identity. 433 00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,740 But it doesn't it just feels wrong. 434 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:37,690 But what is interesting also is the reference to history and to the Second World War. 435 00:50:38,050 --> 00:50:43,270 And that was actually something that's cropped up in several of the interviews. 436 00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:52,150 And tape is a bit of a surprise, but in a sense, the objections to the practices were partly sort of framed, as I said before, 437 00:50:52,330 --> 00:50:57,700 in terms of the critique of new public management, of performance targets of this, 438 00:50:57,700 --> 00:51:05,020 the decline in professionalism or the sort of the references to to the Second World War. 439 00:51:05,410 --> 00:51:09,670 I think in a way you could say the ultimate moral failure. 440 00:51:10,180 --> 00:51:18,190 Um, and the, the critique was most interestingly formed in the language of human rights. 441 00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:22,809 Human rights were not in the sort of dictating to the police officers. 442 00:51:22,810 --> 00:51:26,560 Perhaps it has something to do with Norwegian police officers, which is their self-identity. 443 00:51:26,890 --> 00:51:35,080 It feels a bit like the mass sort of human rights aspect. Um, that this is something that Eastern European officers needs to learn. 444 00:51:36,010 --> 00:51:41,470 But the history aspect was, it was, was something that was sort of a heavy burden. 445 00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:46,240 And here's another another officer. This is a quote from an article that fit in. 446 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:53,250 And I wrote some years ago ago about Frontex, who was sort of comparing this to this, 447 00:51:53,260 --> 00:51:57,940 the sort of the the discomfort and framing and within the view of history. 448 00:51:57,940 --> 00:52:02,709 He says the most challenging part for me was, as I talked about earlier, well, 449 00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:06,370 it was so bad that my thoughts went to the dark side of European history. 450 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,440 I began to reflect over these. 451 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:14,349 These are very personal thoughts, but I thought about those who are participating and they're not citizens who are involved. 452 00:52:14,350 --> 00:52:19,130 What are you thinking? The same as I am. They did try to find a way to justify it. 453 00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:22,810 Did they understand that what they were doing was wrong? Is it wrong? 454 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,170 Should they be involved in this? Should we not be involved? 455 00:52:26,500 --> 00:52:31,870 I had a very amount of practice guarding my back, which is which in a way supports me that this is group. 456 00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:36,730 But then you see, at least I see if nothing happens, what's the point? 457 00:52:37,570 --> 00:52:42,550 Many such things. This part has been a challenge and we've talked a fair amount about it down there. 458 00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:47,110 Not exactly with the same perspective as with about whether it was right for us to be involved. 459 00:52:47,620 --> 00:52:52,150 Are we contributing to something good or are we just helping Greece to do something wrong? 460 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,390 I hope that my children and grandchildren can look back on what their father and grandfather did, 461 00:52:58,750 --> 00:53:04,510 something that was right, that he did something good, that this will not be a shadow of European history. 462 00:53:04,750 --> 00:53:07,570 The sides have contributed too. I really hope so. 463 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:17,940 So this sort of focus on history and the disaster in the image of the Holocaust, I think is a it's a very interesting. 464 00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:25,880 And at the same time, the essence of the discourse, the critical impact of human rights is this is, I think, a very interesting aspect of it. 465 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:38,600 It is also true to conclude, I think if we look at sort of how how the severe systems of social control have been understood previously, 466 00:53:39,650 --> 00:53:46,610 it had been very common to to use them. So to see them sort of the infliction of pain in terms of families, 467 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:52,670 famous analysis of social production, of moral indifference such as this, in a way, 468 00:53:52,970 --> 00:53:58,850 astute moral judgements now from all materials emerges the slightly different 469 00:53:58,850 --> 00:54:03,920 pictures where this is very much alive with all kinds of moral judgements. 470 00:54:04,310 --> 00:54:11,840 Both talked about morality, but also judgements, moral judgements of migrants of people perceived differently than themselves, 471 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:17,120 but also about migrants, this sort of more sin, unworthy, innocence and guilty. 472 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:23,120 And I think this aspect of morality is something also that I would be also very happy to discuss with you. 473 00:54:23,570 --> 00:54:30,470 Um, in the broader discussion, I think I am sick of negative stuff here and I don't.