1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:12,190 Not having enough work. Climate change in mind is a sign of just freshwater energy transition. 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,060 Large scale social disorder. Antibiotic resistant diseases. 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,570 Education. Quantum computing. 4 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,490 Thanks for coming, everybody. This is fantastic. Parents, students. 5 00:00:29,970 --> 00:00:37,010 Just a quick poll of the students who's listen to the podcast I took starts this year. 6 00:00:37,020 --> 00:00:44,549 That's like 98%. So that's pretty much it. We we've had a success and and what we're doing today is we're doing a live podcast. 7 00:00:44,550 --> 00:00:46,830 So it doesn't mean that this is live filmed and being streamed. 8 00:00:46,830 --> 00:00:50,969 What it means is that we're going to record everything and this is going to be our final episode of the season. 9 00:00:50,970 --> 00:00:53,520 We're going to put it out online on iTunes. 10 00:00:54,510 --> 00:01:00,899 But before we get into what today's podcast is going to be, I thought I'd kind of share a bit of a story of how we got this to be this year, 11 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:08,580 the Oxford Future of Business podcast and in the spirit of reflection, like everyone has been this morning, share that story. 12 00:01:08,580 --> 00:01:12,000 So we're here in launch and for the students, you all know what launch requires. 13 00:01:12,180 --> 00:01:14,339 For parents, it's this really intense two weeks. 14 00:01:14,340 --> 00:01:19,770 If they were calling you where you're meeting all these people, they're all really impressive getting your LinkedIn profiles. 15 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:25,680 You're thinking that you really don't deserve to be here. But there's all these really interesting conversations and everyone's so impressive. 16 00:01:26,100 --> 00:01:32,999 And then you have the dean come on stage and say, You know, Oxford is world class people and they're here to solve world scale problems. 17 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,200 So every conversation you have seems lofty. It seems like you're full of this optimism. 18 00:01:37,650 --> 00:01:43,889 And we're sitting in a pub, Emily Brody and I, and reflecting on some of these conversations and everyone we're meeting and definitely 19 00:01:43,890 --> 00:01:47,790 fuelled by a few good English ales which I have frequented since I've got here. 20 00:01:48,660 --> 00:01:52,889 And, and we're saying we started talking about a bunch of things and one about how impressive 21 00:01:52,890 --> 00:01:58,290 everyone is and to about how much we love podcasts and sitting there and like or how, 22 00:01:58,330 --> 00:02:03,629 how would it be to build a podcast? What would that be like? What do you need? It should be easy to record off your cell phone and off you go. 23 00:02:03,630 --> 00:02:08,730 Put it on iTunes like we can do this. So Brody grabbed a napkin and he's like, Yeah, we're making a podcast. 24 00:02:08,730 --> 00:02:11,309 Here we go. And that was a year ago today. 25 00:02:11,310 --> 00:02:18,090 And now we have launched a podcast and we do have six episodes online and it's real and it was just an amazing journey, 26 00:02:18,090 --> 00:02:22,340 was so much fun midway through the year to kind of really help us bring it along. 27 00:02:22,350 --> 00:02:26,730 My client in Paris joined the group, so I just get the podcast team to stand up here quickly. 28 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:33,870 We've got 30. And in the back, you've got Michael and in Paris. 29 00:02:35,050 --> 00:02:40,180 Here you go. So it's been an absolute blast. 30 00:02:40,180 --> 00:02:44,290 And we're we're really excited that you can be part of the last episode of the season here. 31 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:50,760 So what we're going to do is going to bring Emily up on stage. She's going to interview to Sabine and our own U2. 32 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:54,129 And I will do that for about 30 or 40 minutes. Then we'll do some Q&A. 33 00:02:54,130 --> 00:02:58,540 So think about some good questions and you might just make your get your voice on the podcast. 34 00:02:58,540 --> 00:03:01,900 So I'll figure and I'll bring you guys up now. Thank you. 35 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:15,750 Thank you all so much for being here. And thank you to everyone who has listened and commented and given us feedback so far. 36 00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:20,280 And this is something I've wanted to do sort of since we started the podcast. 37 00:03:20,910 --> 00:03:28,400 And so it's kind of bringing another group of people rather than just me and Brady sitting in a room somewhere over there and doing this on our own. 38 00:03:28,410 --> 00:03:35,010 So it's fantastic to have you all here. And the conversation today, building on the theme of the future of business, 39 00:03:35,490 --> 00:03:41,639 is a conversation that we're going to start off then to talk about what it means to have integrity in business. 40 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,020 How do you build a business with an integrity and what choices you have to make to do that? 41 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:52,139 What it means to have authentic entertainment in a in an era of Netflix and Spotify, 42 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:58,170 where we don't have to make any choices, how do we really choose how we're entertained and how we engage with each other? 43 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:04,530 And then building on that theme, how do we use digital to connect the place and what a place mean to us? 44 00:04:04,530 --> 00:04:09,059 And I think, you know, we've had this morning so much about what Oxford means to us. 45 00:04:09,060 --> 00:04:15,300 And so and he would see people who've already thought very deeply about what do you would what has placed mean to communities. 46 00:04:16,830 --> 00:04:23,010 So I'm going to do some introductions and then we'll see a little bit of what these two have created and then we'll dive into the conversation. 47 00:04:23,790 --> 00:04:28,649 So next being as the co-founder of resident advisor and electronic music community 48 00:04:28,650 --> 00:04:33,389 with 300 million visitors every year bootstrapped with no VC investment, 49 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:36,960 R has built a reputation as the broadsheet of electronic music. 50 00:04:37,380 --> 00:04:46,590 You can see why I liked wants to bring that up and rather than advertising in quick form content focusing on a few cities around the world, 51 00:04:46,980 --> 00:04:54,870 Resident Advisor publishes several thousand water articles on underground scenes in places like Cairo and Tokyo and other cities around the world. 52 00:04:55,170 --> 00:05:00,149 And when the rest of the media is trending towards zero decision making consuming only what Netflix 53 00:05:00,150 --> 00:05:05,040 and Spotify suggest to us are is startling and building a passionate following for rigorous, 54 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,020 factual and artistic criticism. 55 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:14,460 Nick is also an entrepreneurship expert and mentor here at the Business School and Choice and chose to join this community 56 00:05:14,730 --> 00:05:20,340 to provide a different vision of how to build businesses without investment that can support oneself one's team, 57 00:05:20,580 --> 00:05:26,610 rather than to band to external investors. It's a way of building businesses, both very modern and very old fashioned. 58 00:05:26,850 --> 00:05:39,499 You join me? So my other guest will be slightly more familiar to many of you in the audience yet who is a writer, 59 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:42,530 a filmmaker, a data expert and a very good friend. 60 00:05:43,010 --> 00:05:46,970 I'm not content with finishing everyone else's assignments for them this time. 61 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:56,750 She also took a 360 degree immersive art film and dance experience to the Sundance Festival this year during the MPAA and in South Africa. 62 00:05:56,750 --> 00:05:58,909 She's a contributing editor of the website of Friends, 63 00:05:58,910 --> 00:06:03,710 which tells amazing stories about Africa's millennials in design, photography, music and fashion. 64 00:06:04,070 --> 00:06:08,740 She's one of the most feature thinking of our class, and I'm so excited to have her here on the podcast. 65 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,530 She's someone I've been wanting to get on the show for a fertile time, so that's awesome. 66 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,300 Okay, so to start off, 67 00:06:14,540 --> 00:06:23,870 we just want to show you a short film about resident advisor to kind of set the scene for those of you who have not explored electronic dance music. 68 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,380 So if we can play that now. Okay, perfect. 69 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:45,800 Here we go. From the beginning, our aim was simple. 70 00:06:46,420 --> 00:06:50,800 To showcase and support independent electronic music across the globe. 71 00:06:52,650 --> 00:07:00,570 We go beyond the clubs to discover the scenes, the people and the stories that make electronic music one of the most vital art forms of all time. 72 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:11,160 We combine world class journalism with a friend, discovery tools and award winning content to create an ecosystem of over 30 million readers a year. 73 00:07:13,650 --> 00:07:23,030 Already reports on cultural events around the clock, breaking global news stories and exploring the wider influence electronic music has on society. 74 00:07:24,150 --> 00:07:32,190 Our in-depth features and films document powerful subjects that champion the values of acceptance which underpin our culture. 75 00:07:34,420 --> 00:07:40,450 Aura helps kickstart artists careers, showcasing and supporting the headliners of Tomorrow. 76 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,649 The ORA ecosystem has over 1 million artists, 77 00:07:45,650 --> 00:07:52,100 events and venues listed across the globe with unique tools that help promoters keep their local scene thriving. 78 00:07:53,360 --> 00:08:02,180 In 2008, we launched the largest electronic music ticketing platform in the world, connecting fans to music events in over 50 countries. 79 00:08:04,190 --> 00:08:09,230 As electronic music's global impact increases, so does our audience. 80 00:08:09,770 --> 00:08:13,190 More than 3.5 million people read write every month. 81 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,809 This year, it gives you an idea of what it's like to try and think about the future. 82 00:08:17,810 --> 00:08:21,950 And a 900 year old university with an unknown teacher of 25. 83 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:32,329 So I think we may really start off with as asking one of my favourite questions to ask on the podcast, 84 00:08:32,330 --> 00:08:40,400 which is if if you're going to describe a visit to a ten year old, how do you how would you describe it? 85 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:51,960 I would describe it as I would say, you know, how you have textbooks for history, geography, maths, chemistry, etc. 86 00:08:52,940 --> 00:09:00,739 We're essentially the textbook of electronic music and hopefully something that showcases and 87 00:09:00,740 --> 00:09:06,320 spotlights a phenomenal international community that one day they might be lucky enough to be part of. 88 00:09:06,950 --> 00:09:10,639 But a textbook is something that's very kind of definitive and fixed. 89 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:16,910 And the interesting thing about music is it's kind of evolving and changing all the time in response to how people engage with it. 90 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:24,770 Yeah, I mean, it's been a while since I picked up a textbook. I imagine they're a little more multimedia than than when I was in pre-school. 91 00:09:24,770 --> 00:09:30,320 But yeah, it's more I'm using that as a, as a frame of reference for a just in terms of, you know, 92 00:09:30,890 --> 00:09:35,060 one of our core values as a company is we care about the past, present and future of electronic music. 93 00:09:35,060 --> 00:09:42,680 You know, we're not just interested in the here and now. We're also interested in ensuring there's an ongoing legacy and an understanding 94 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:46,040 of where this culture came from and how we've arrived at the point we are today. 95 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:51,979 We're as interested in that as we are in, you know, who the big artists will be in the next year or the next five years, 96 00:09:51,980 --> 00:09:55,730 or what the sounds are that will inspire people from across the world. 97 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:04,160 Mm hmm. And so take us through a little that how resident visa came to be and the kind of story of how you built it. 98 00:10:04,430 --> 00:10:14,030 Sure. So I'm originally from Sydney, as my accent indicate, and essentially we were just kids that just love going out. 99 00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:16,670 I cared about two things as a kid and not much else, 100 00:10:16,670 --> 00:10:22,249 and that was cricket and electronic music and I pretty quickly realised I was going to play cricket for Australia. 101 00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:26,230 So I packed that and I was like electronic music, that's my thing. And. 102 00:10:26,380 --> 00:10:33,050 And so, you know, we were just going out a lot and you know, music was, you know, just the huge focal point of my life. 103 00:10:33,410 --> 00:10:40,069 And so we wanted to, by virtue of going out, we wanted to contribute to the scene, you know, in our way. 104 00:10:40,070 --> 00:10:43,399 And we weren't we weren't deejays. But, you know, we were super passionate about music. 105 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:48,680 And music was the thing that inspired us beyond anything else. And so we were like, Hey, what's, what's our thing here? 106 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:56,300 And we, we realised that there wasn't really somewhere in, in Australia at least, which kind of pointed people to the most interesting events. 107 00:10:56,510 --> 00:11:02,870 And also we wanted a platform to talk about the music that was inspiring us, that was really moving us both emotionally and physically. 108 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,330 And back then, in 2001, it was kind of pre blog, so you had to build a website. 109 00:11:08,330 --> 00:11:14,150 And fortunately a friend of mine, Paul, my co-founder, he knew how to do that and I didn't. 110 00:11:14,450 --> 00:11:17,239 And so just pretty quickly, we hatched an idea and we said, you know, 111 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,070 why don't we create a little home on the Internet to essentially just write about music that we liked? 112 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:25,660 And we said, Cool, you know, what do we need for that? 113 00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:30,799 And we realised that the barriers to entry for a digital publication in 2001 were fairly low. 114 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:39,290 So we both put in 400 AUD and that's all we've ever put in and we've never borrowed a cent since then. 115 00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:47,600 We've never wanted to. We've always had a fairly strong ideology in terms of how we wanted to approach building this business 116 00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:53,450 around integrity and around honesty and not allowing for external influence in what we write. 117 00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:58,489 And so that's kind of been, I guess, our write off to get us to this point. 118 00:11:58,490 --> 00:12:03,860 And as a result, we've grown the business organically over that time from yeah, 119 00:12:03,860 --> 00:12:07,870 from 2001 when a small number of people read it to now in a few more did. 120 00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:08,420 Yeah. 121 00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:18,530 So I do definitely want to come back to the building without, without investment because for people who've just struggled to learn what beta is for, 122 00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:21,439 yeah, it's a really interesting concept to come back to that. 123 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:29,389 But before I do that, I want to just ask you to, to talk a little bit about two of the things that brought you to the stage today. 124 00:12:29,390 --> 00:12:35,240 So one is the film Evolve Revolve. And I think given the Wi-Fi, we might skip sharing that, 125 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,870 but we will send out a link afterwards those of you who won't see it, because it's really extraordinary. 126 00:12:39,530 --> 00:12:43,130 But tell us a little bit about the film and then also about our friends as well. Okay. 127 00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:50,300 So I'm really excited to be here today. I think it's like quite surreal that I'm here in front of all my incredible classmates graduating tomorrow. 128 00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:58,069 And, you know, I'm here with one of my media heroes and I've got like family from South Africa visiting so that they can see me on stage today. 129 00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:02,960 So you guys know me as one of your classmates. You know me as a techie and a social impact person. 130 00:13:03,850 --> 00:13:06,909 But I also have a very creative side. So back in 2011, 131 00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:16,270 my brother Deji Dada and I started a magazine and in its form back then it documented Pretoria in Johannesburg's electronic music scene. 132 00:13:17,140 --> 00:13:23,170 The most current version that's still running now is called Our Friends, and it's a publication that features, 133 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,430 as Emily mentioned, like African design, music, photography and fashion. 134 00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:33,850 And what we're trying to do is actually create a space where we can say, how do we use those elements to drive social change? 135 00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:39,669 So that's actually what was like a pivotal changing point in the direction that the website was moving. 136 00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:49,810 And I'm also on stage because as of this year, I'm the Sundance New Frontier Lab fellow with my partner Sharif Ali. 137 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:58,110 And we're working on a virtual reality film called Evolve Revolt, which focuses on a Kenyan myth. 138 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:07,240 So in the in Kenya, there is a Kikuyu tribe that believe that if you walk over Muhammad Ali seven times and become a tree is like a wild fig tree, 139 00:14:08,020 --> 00:14:17,110 you can actually change sex. So it's a very interesting, very, very old myth and it tells a very different picture of what Kenya was. 140 00:14:17,860 --> 00:14:27,909 Because if you look at Kenya in terms of social climate, now you find a version of Kenya that there are like 17 laws against the LGBTQ community, 141 00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:30,760 and it also has one of the highest rates of gender based violence. 142 00:14:31,270 --> 00:14:41,169 So we're actually trying to use this film as a way to actually comment on the different changes and why those evolved as part of the film. 143 00:14:41,170 --> 00:14:49,060 So yeah, I'm very excited to be here. Was there a decision early on that you were never going to take investment, 144 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,680 or was it something which you found it difficult to raise investments or that became something 145 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:58,630 over time that that that became the ideology of the company or the philosophy of the company. 146 00:14:59,150 --> 00:15:06,440 How did you make those decisions? Well, for the first four and a four and a half years, almost five actually. 147 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,600 We essentially just did resident advisor on the site. 148 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,020 So it was we never started it to make money. 149 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,750 That's a good starting place in terms of like it changes your frame of reference for wanting investment or whatever, 150 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,850 but we're not starting this thing for commercial benefit, 151 00:15:19,850 --> 00:15:25,370 so that takes that off the table, at least also not with the expectation that it would be this big thing, 152 00:15:25,370 --> 00:15:27,810 but just something that we wanted to do as a passion project, basically. 153 00:15:28,430 --> 00:15:33,770 And so for the first four, four and a half, five years, we we were just doing this on the side. 154 00:15:33,770 --> 00:15:39,260 So, you know, we'd I was working for an ad agency. My co-founder Paul was working for a design agency. 155 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,500 And, you know, we would work in the mornings and then, you know, 156 00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:46,240 probably a little bit too much during work then, you know, at lunchtimes and then, you know, 157 00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:51,709 late into the evening until 12 or one and then, you know, then you start again the next day and wake up at six and, 158 00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:54,830 you know, essentially doing two full time jobs for the space of five years. 159 00:15:55,430 --> 00:16:02,030 That was kind of like our alternative to investment, I guess. Right. And so I think, you know, for us, it wasn't we never really, you know, 160 00:16:02,030 --> 00:16:06,430 the costs of running an online business at that point were maybe $50 a month or something. 161 00:16:06,450 --> 00:16:12,979 You know, everybody we will contributing all our time for free. And, you know, essentially, it was just friends who were, you know, 162 00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:19,550 as interested and as keen to share their knowledge and their appreciation and their passion for electronic music as we were. 163 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,950 And so, you know, I was writing a lot of the content and the quality of the journalism has got a lot better since then. 164 00:16:24,950 --> 00:16:28,390 But, you know, we were essentially there was just a lot of us who were, you know, 165 00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:34,280 contributing a lot of man hours to something that we believed in that wasn't being shaped for commercial benefit. 166 00:16:34,490 --> 00:16:37,820 It was just being shaped because we felt, you know, 167 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,290 that we were doing something unique in terms of how we were critiquing the art form that we were most passionate about. 168 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:51,770 And we never wanted to have that compromised by external decision making, basically, and external considerations. 169 00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:56,840 And in the publishing space, you know, commercial influence is, is rife. 170 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:03,950 And, and we wanted to go down a different path. And for us, it wasn't by virtue of the fact that we weren't doing it to make money. 171 00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:08,870 It didn't really matter to us if 100 people read it or a thousand people read it or 100,000 people read it. 172 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:15,680 It was more about we were just commenting on the things, the music that excited us, the stuff that we were most excited about and, 173 00:17:15,830 --> 00:17:20,480 you know, essentially exists to connect the electronic music community and support local scenes. 174 00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:26,330 And, you know, we felt that we could do that without necessarily needing to raise a ton of money, 175 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,270 obviously would allow us to do certain things faster. 176 00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:34,339 And you could hire more people and you've got more of a buffer if you make some bad decisions and stuff like that. 177 00:17:34,340 --> 00:17:41,299 But, you know, we felt that we can do it our way and you know, and that's brought us to this point where, you know, 178 00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:46,910 we write about what we want to write about without anybody else deciding what we should or shouldn't write about. 179 00:17:47,090 --> 00:17:52,340 And is there ever been a point where it was a little bit about, you know, you can do things faster if you raise investment? 180 00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:55,790 That was kind of eased to having that that buffer. 181 00:17:56,270 --> 00:18:01,280 Has there ever been a point where you've not been able to do something you desperately 182 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,700 wanted to be able to do because you didn't have that kind of additional buffer? 183 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:11,570 I mean, because we've grown it. So we also existed in a different time, I think, you know, we started in 2001. 184 00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:14,209 You know, now, you know, it's a very different world. 185 00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:20,210 So now if you've got an idea and it's not successful in the first six months, it's a failure or somebody else will do it with more money or whatever. 186 00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:20,390 You know, 187 00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:27,620 we had eight years of building a brand around an approach before anyone really cared what we were doing outside of like a very small community. 188 00:18:27,980 --> 00:18:33,860 And, and that, you know, that was significantly advantageous for us because as people discovered who we were, 189 00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:36,050 we'd had this long legacy of doing things a certain way. 190 00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:42,950 But it wasn't so much about, you know, there was a specific project that we couldn't do or something like that. 191 00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:47,299 I think it was less about the the financial aspect and maybe the skills aspect, 192 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:52,760 because obviously we've had to learn a lot just as we go, you know, made a ton of mistakes along the way and learnt from those things. 193 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:58,610 And you know, obviously you investors provide money, of course they do, but they also provide expertise and experience. 194 00:18:58,610 --> 00:19:05,360 And by virtue of not engaging with those people in that way, then you're kind of cutting yourself off from that. 195 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:09,259 And, you know, we felt, you know, we've obviously we've done okay with it. 196 00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:14,600 And but there's certainly things that we, you know, might have done differently had we known what we know now. 197 00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:21,230 But I think it's no there's nothing, you know, majorly telling you that we might have got to stay. 198 00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:27,140 We certainly would have got to places faster. You know, like I could hire 50 developers tomorrow and they'd all be full time busy start away. 199 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:30,680 So there's a ton of stuff that we want to do. We're really ambitious company. 200 00:19:31,490 --> 00:19:36,770 You know, our roadmap for the next two, three years, you know, is really exciting and it would be great to do those things faster. 201 00:19:37,070 --> 00:19:44,720 But equally, I'd rather kind of do them at our pace, do them in our way, and kind of retain the independence of of what we want to do. 202 00:19:45,530 --> 00:19:52,430 Because some of the the best things are a lot of the best things that happen in our community, in our industry, from a place of independence. 203 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,910 And and that's something that we that we want to support. Yeah. 204 00:19:56,300 --> 00:20:01,820 So I'm going to, I'm kind of focussed on that for a second, so I'm picking up that last comment. 205 00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:09,950 In terms of coming at things from a place of independence. What what drove you to tell this particular story that's in evolving? 206 00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:16,849 Evolve. Why was it important to you to tell that story and kind of how did you talk us through the business side of things? 207 00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:19,880 How did you find it? How did you kind of create it, etc.? 208 00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:27,020 So for me, I think I'm always there are a lot of things which it maybe goes back to a comment 209 00:20:27,020 --> 00:20:31,280 that I heard that when you come across like different stories that break your heart, 210 00:20:31,910 --> 00:20:39,200 you should perhaps be the person that does something about it because you might be the only one that cares about the problem in the way that you do. 211 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,220 And you might you might have there any set of skills that can fix it the way that you could. 212 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:49,370 And for me, I kept hearing there are a lot of stories in South Africa about how women are attacked. 213 00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:53,240 And the same applies to Kenya, where my partner is from Shreveport. 214 00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:59,720 And we were like, well, we see this big problem and we see this interesting myth as well, 215 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,910 because Sharifa came across it in a play when she was in New York, while she's been in New York. 216 00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:13,580 And we were like, Well, how about we actually try to create a social movement around this piece in order to get some change in that in that space? 217 00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:20,750 We've been working on the project for the last year and a half, and we're now at the stage where there was like an initial prototype. 218 00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:27,590 But now we're moving on to storyboarding the final, the final, the final production piece. 219 00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:31,940 We were actually supposed to be doing it in two weeks, but I think they're moving that exercise out. 220 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:38,480 And we're going to be premiering like actually like Sundance Film Festival in 2020, which is going to be really exciting. 221 00:21:39,470 --> 00:21:44,390 Congratulations. Well, we'll get there for funding. 222 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,170 You know, Evolve or Evolve has been an interesting experience. 223 00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:56,390 We're lucky to be partnered with Atlas five, which is probably like the world's biggest or best VR production studio in the world. 224 00:21:56,690 --> 00:22:04,100 We have Anton Carroll, who is like we call him Goddard, who manages like everything, and he's our producer in terms of getting money. 225 00:22:04,820 --> 00:22:10,760 One of my biggest lessons for this year has been how to actually consider financing for films I did not know. 226 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:17,540 I mean, like Sharif and I are co-creators on this piece. We know nothing about the film industry here at least requires like a theatre background. 227 00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:21,860 I'm a techie, but it's been a learning experience. 228 00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:26,180 Just, you know, the film industry kind of works the same as the VC industry does. 229 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:34,550 People come, you come up with your own pitch deck and you walk up and they decide, Well, we've looked at your pitch deck, but we just like your team. 230 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,260 So we're just going to give you money however, however much we feel like we're going to give you. 231 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:49,850 And I have issues with the industry for that reason, but what I realised is that we can actually structure the film with an impact investing focus. 232 00:22:50,510 --> 00:22:55,100 That was actually something that I've now learnt in the business program that you could perhaps have impact returns. 233 00:22:55,580 --> 00:23:03,799 We can actually set metrics that we're trying to create because it's a social impact film in order to generate revenue like that. 234 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,660 So we're actually looking at alternative means to do that because we're looking for slower capital. 235 00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:13,429 We have a distribution plan that is actually quite interesting for the film because 236 00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:18,440 VR is actually virtual reality is actually quite exclusionary when you look at it. 237 00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:26,149 I mean, like, is the film just going to be shown at film festivals and you guys don't get to see it if we try to take it to Kenya or to South Africa, 238 00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:33,410 how does that look like? So with in mind of creating art for a broader audience, we obviously need a lot more financing to do that. 239 00:23:33,410 --> 00:23:42,739 So we're still in the fundraising process. We have managed to raise quite a bit now to get the initial storyboard and concept out and then 240 00:23:42,740 --> 00:23:47,600 we'll be continuing on to carry on fundraising during while we are making the rest of the piece. 241 00:23:48,110 --> 00:23:56,090 And why was it important to you to make it in VR? So there's many different ways of telling the story. 242 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:05,750 We do consider, you know, so how we think of virtual reality is how do we tell the story using the best tool? 243 00:24:06,410 --> 00:24:10,460 You don't use the technology to guide your choice for virtual reality. 244 00:24:10,910 --> 00:24:14,420 But when we discovered that there's something amazing about being the tree, 245 00:24:14,780 --> 00:24:21,920 when you see this character go on this like journey in it as a very powerful piece, we thought that there was something very special there. 246 00:24:22,820 --> 00:24:25,430 So originally it was a 360 degree piece, 247 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:31,940 but now there's going to be kind of like CGI live action elements which are trying to engage you as the viewer in there. 248 00:24:32,510 --> 00:24:37,670 It's important for us because we're trying to create an experience where you are 249 00:24:38,150 --> 00:24:42,410 fundamentally changed by what you've seen and what you've experienced in that piece, 250 00:24:42,410 --> 00:24:45,530 and then you consider other different perspectives in it. 251 00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:52,190 So that's why virtual reality was then the option we decided to explore in this many different ways. 252 00:24:52,610 --> 00:24:56,240 Obviously, while being part of the program, we've had technology for Impact, 253 00:24:56,570 --> 00:25:01,730 the self-driven course that we decided to, you know, get the business school to create for us. 254 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:07,170 And listening to Mel Slater, one of our guest speakers, come in and he talks about embodiment for art, 255 00:25:07,230 --> 00:25:11,490 where you get to put yourself in other genders or other races to experience things. 256 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,720 Virtuality is a very powerful tool to get us to convert perspectives. 257 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:22,890 Obviously, we have to work around the limitations of it because, you know, 2D, a YouTube video is much easier. 258 00:25:23,940 --> 00:25:28,170 But we think that we can create a more powerful experience using virtual reality. 259 00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:34,830 So there's a couple of things you've you've drawn out that which I think are really interesting to kind of compare and contrast with resident advisor. 260 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:41,430 And one is the conversation we were having earlier about what is the right content for the right story to tell. 261 00:25:41,850 --> 00:25:46,500 And some of your articles are, you know, 10,000 words long. 262 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:52,500 And then you have this reputation of being very kind of critical, very fact based. 263 00:25:52,890 --> 00:25:59,540 And certainly when I think about music and my music experiences, I don't necessarily think of them as super base based. 264 00:26:00,450 --> 00:26:05,070 And a lot of the content I now think about when it comes to music of kind of short form Instagram stories. 265 00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:10,110 And it may be that in the moment, but it's, it's very subjective. 266 00:26:10,110 --> 00:26:16,829 It's it's kind of what's going on. So why did you choose to have this very journalistic attitude to something which where the rest of 267 00:26:16,830 --> 00:26:21,150 the world is going towards a more of a kind of content creation way of approaching the subject? 268 00:26:22,110 --> 00:26:29,009 Yeah, good question. I mean, first and foremost, like we're deeply passionate about great journalism and longform journalism, 269 00:26:29,010 --> 00:26:36,120 especially so from the very beginning of something that we wanted to support and and we'll always continue to do so. 270 00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:47,690 But I think the the context and how you use technology to tell stories is something that will become increasingly important over the next few years. 271 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:52,200 And it's I think it's you know, it's easy to think our technology allows for, 272 00:26:52,260 --> 00:26:55,530 you know, easier distribution and better storytelling and all of this stuff. 273 00:26:55,530 --> 00:27:02,840 But it's important to remember that your readers expectations will change at the same time and often ahead of the pace that you can move. 274 00:27:02,850 --> 00:27:08,190 So it's it's kind of trying to balance those things and really ensure that you're set up in a 275 00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:13,230 way that allows you to utilise the latest technology to tell stories in the most compelling way. 276 00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:18,660 But the way that you present the stories now needs to be as compelling as the story themselves. 277 00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:21,600 So it's to be successful and in and out. 278 00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:30,000 And so some of those features that you reference, you know, where they are 10,000 words, you know, oral histories of various things over the years is, 279 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:36,000 you know, we just felt that by virtue of the fact that they're legacy pieces and they will hopefully exist forever. 280 00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:39,659 We kind of wanted them to be exhaustive and for them to, you know, 281 00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:45,569 for us to interview 50 or 100 people to get different perspectives on that particular subject matter was really important to us 282 00:27:45,570 --> 00:27:53,430 to arguably present the most compelling piece on something that is fundamental to our industry and our community and will be, 283 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,480 you know, 50 years down the line. So we didn't it's not about like the here and now. 284 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:03,090 It's about creating something that is factually based, that is exhaustive, that is super deep. 285 00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:09,370 On the flip side of that, you know, we'll also put together like a best new releases playlist on Spotify, right? 286 00:28:09,420 --> 00:28:12,550 So someone that wants to discover music in a different way. 287 00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:13,889 And, you know, 288 00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:20,880 one of the things that one of our big focuses as a as a media company over the next few years is is kind of modernising music discovery. 289 00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:28,409 And but that doesn't mean just all of a sudden just move everything to, you know, just being able to one sentence, you know, this is a bang. 290 00:28:28,410 --> 00:28:33,160 I listen to it. It's you know, it's also, you know, combining that stuff. 291 00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:42,059 So, you know, a young kid from, you know, China or Norway or Argentina or whatever can come to our and they know they like electronic music, 292 00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:46,680 but they're not quite sure what they like. But we can kind of lead them down the rabbit hole a little bit. 293 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:52,709 You know, you like house music, read like this and and do that in a way that's in keeping with the way they're used to listening to music, 294 00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:56,310 which is literally, you know, on a streaming platform, bang from this to this to this. 295 00:28:56,310 --> 00:29:05,940 Right. And we need to evolve the platform to help them on their musical their journey of musical discovery, but equally like longform journalism. 296 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:10,200 And, you know, the deeper the better, in my opinion, has a place and always will have a place in the media. 297 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,120 And so and maybe they'll only come to that like a few years later, but once they've worked out, 298 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,229 they like house music and they like different artists, then maybe they want to find out where house music comes from. 299 00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:25,590 So, well, we can tell you and we can tell you in a piece that we may have written seven years ago that's was as relevant today as it was then. 300 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,629 Right. One thing that's interesting about your journey and can you touch on a couple of times 301 00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:37,290 in that is you started off in Sydney writing about what was happening in your place. 302 00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:43,140 You then kind of went global and now through kind of the listings and the ticketing platform, 303 00:29:43,290 --> 00:29:48,540 you'll bring people back down into that place and you have teams kind of around the world connecting people to face. 304 00:29:48,540 --> 00:29:52,200 And this also kind of relates to to your website and in particular in Johannesburg. 305 00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:58,620 And one thing I find really interesting in your you have these great values which you shared with me. 306 00:29:58,890 --> 00:30:06,270 And the final one is we're always. Front left and always share our water which is something which MBAs this week. 307 00:30:06,330 --> 00:30:12,690 It's kind of the talk to me a bit about what it means to be always front left. 308 00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:20,640 Yeah, sure. So front left is in reference to the dance floor and being front left in front of one of the main speaker stacks. 309 00:30:21,150 --> 00:30:26,850 And essentially that's riffing off the fact that our community is is very level. 310 00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:34,079 And by that I mean, it's not uncommon to be at a festival or be an event and see the biggest artist that's performing at that event, 311 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,260 being on the dance floor with some kid that's just going on his first night out 312 00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:40,500 with the people that just clocked off the bar with the sound engineer or whatever. 313 00:30:40,860 --> 00:30:47,580 It's, you know, it's a community of like minded people, which is there isn't this kind of like elite hierarchy. 314 00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:52,350 And so it's kind of just a reminder for that for us, like by virtue of what we do, 315 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,170 you know, obviously we could be anywhere at a festival or in a club. 316 00:30:56,100 --> 00:31:01,020 You know, we could be backstage or we could be in the green room or we could be just like sitting by the bar, having a drink. 317 00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:07,650 But we're like, no, like, you know, we're, we're part of this as it's like on as passionate about electronic music now as I was in 2001. 318 00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:14,010 And, you know, I want us to always consider that and I want us to always remember to be on the dance floor as part of the community. 319 00:31:14,010 --> 00:31:19,559 I think the moment you you know, it's one thing to kind of to build an online community, 320 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,830 but you need to be you need to be part of that community specifically. 321 00:31:22,830 --> 00:31:26,040 You can't be critiquing it or trying to support it from afar. 322 00:31:26,220 --> 00:31:29,520 You need to be buried into it and you need to be adding value to it and supporting it. 323 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,709 Not, you know, not seeing it as an opportunity for commercial benefit and extracting value from it. 324 00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:39,210 You need to kind of look at it the other way. Right? And that's kind of a reminder to do that. 325 00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:43,769 So when when we go out into the world and and start thinking about how we build our businesses, 326 00:31:43,770 --> 00:31:49,950 and there are sort of two things which you seem to really embody, which we've been learning about this year. 327 00:31:49,950 --> 00:31:55,859 One is this kind of idea of purpose and integrity in business. And that seems to be something which your community, 328 00:31:55,860 --> 00:32:02,490 where he responds to in your authenticity and and your integrity and in what you write and the way you act. 329 00:32:03,450 --> 00:32:10,350 And the other is the idea that, you know, we've just been discussing a lot of what does the future of work look like, 330 00:32:10,590 --> 00:32:14,579 how how do we build companies when everything is complete, decentralised? 331 00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:19,770 That owner of says there are no physical places anymore and you seem to be building a business that is 332 00:32:19,770 --> 00:32:24,120 not quite antithetical to both those things but is definitely not kind of fully going in that direction. 333 00:32:24,510 --> 00:32:31,590 Do you think that that that what you're doing is the future or is kind of the last vestige of what was possible before? 334 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,800 Well, hopefully it's the future of where we want to keep it going from. 335 00:32:37,870 --> 00:32:43,620 Okay. Well, essentially, we've hopefully it's the future in terms of the way that we're evolving our business, 336 00:32:43,620 --> 00:32:46,890 the way that we allow people to engage with our content. 337 00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:50,370 But we're essentially running an old school business model. 338 00:32:50,610 --> 00:32:55,320 You know, at the end of the year, we need to earn a pound or a year or a dollar more than we spend. 339 00:32:55,350 --> 00:33:01,800 Otherwise we don't have a business. And and that's not necessarily the norm nowadays in especially in the kind of the digital and the tech era. 340 00:33:02,940 --> 00:33:11,280 So but it's the way that we wanted to do it. And I think so hopefully in a business sense, yeah, maybe we are old school in that regard, 341 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:16,709 but you know, that retains our independence and that's something that is really important to us. 342 00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:23,910 So but from a kind of platform evolution point of view, you know, if, if we stay old school or even, 343 00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:29,700 you know, begin to settle for like any any business now in any industry at the moment, 344 00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:34,410 I think, you know, we've got this and, you know, we're at the top of our game or whatever, like the decline starts there. 345 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,510 And and that's something that I'm always instilling in in our staff and in our companies. 346 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,840 You know, we're fortunate that for many people, we're consider the leader in our field, and that's a great position to be in. 347 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:48,610 But we're only in that position because, you know, 348 00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:52,709 we're accountable to ourselves to constantly keep challenging ourselves, constantly keep pushing ourselves, 349 00:33:52,710 --> 00:34:00,450 and constantly keep evolving and making sure that the business is utilising the advancement 350 00:34:00,450 --> 00:34:04,799 in technology to our benefit and to the benefit of our audience in the most meaningful way, 351 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,970 because there's 150 different options and ideas in terms of what you could do. 352 00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:14,850 It's actually really important to know that, you know, 140 that you shouldn't do, 353 00:34:15,060 --> 00:34:22,920 but the ten that'll make the most meaningful difference for you and your vision as a business point in that one. 354 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:30,329 So I get to have the last laugh with my parents because Resident Advisor was actually one of the founding value of 355 00:34:30,330 --> 00:34:36,299 honesty and integrity in journalism was actually one of the founding principles for our website when we started. 356 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:42,690 So like I'm having a fangirl moment here as well and, and to my dad up there, we were working when we went out. 357 00:34:46,740 --> 00:34:51,480 But I think in terms of building integrity and honesty into your work and stuff, 358 00:34:51,690 --> 00:35:00,509 my brother and I had to make some very important decisions about which companies we received money from, which companies we decided to work on. 359 00:35:00,510 --> 00:35:03,930 And it was based on like if. Eccleston says that we felt that they did. 360 00:35:03,940 --> 00:35:08,559 And, you know, in some ways you do actually. Well, sometimes we lose out. 361 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,160 But for us, it was more important to have an ethical stand on what we reported. 362 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:18,520 I think that actually why the blog converted in 2013 to become more socially 363 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,970 focussed because we felt that that was in line with where we were moving together. 364 00:35:22,930 --> 00:35:29,290 But, you know, I think it's just important to realise that as business leaders, honesty and integrity, 365 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,480 when you build those core values into your business, it might cost you certain opportunities. 366 00:35:35,230 --> 00:35:38,770 But for you, you need to decide with what you're going to live with and what you will not. 367 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:47,170 So, yeah, thank you so much. Okay, so I'm just looking at the time and conscious that we are the last event of the day. 368 00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:54,010 So I'm going to open up to the audience now for questions, and I hope that there are meant to be some mikes around. 369 00:35:54,310 --> 00:36:00,850 Yeah, fantastic. So do you raise your hand? The questions will take questions for about 15 minutes and then I'll I'll finish this off. 370 00:36:00,850 --> 00:36:03,940 So anyone in the audience. 371 00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:06,160 Okay, I'm going to start down here. 372 00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:16,000 The lady down here, it's not quite an MBA buzzword, but one of the recurring conversations we've had this year about the media echo chamber. 373 00:36:16,270 --> 00:36:20,919 So I'd love to hear how you think about your work through the lens of that conversation, 374 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,180 including how you balance your mission and your business decisions, 375 00:36:25,180 --> 00:36:33,790 which you've both spoken to in part, and then also how you think about reaching out to audiences that aren't your obvious target audience, 376 00:36:33,790 --> 00:36:38,050 whether that's something that you specifically create content towards, 377 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,600 whether you're really trying to engage them or you're ignoring them in pursuit of 378 00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:49,370 staying true to the people who really connect with your mission more naturally later. 379 00:36:49,450 --> 00:36:54,999 Thank you. I can maybe try that one because we had three or four and I have been like an on a journey 380 00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,040 with our like Sundance mentors and we had a very pivotal moment because we realised 381 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,210 we were trying to create a social impact film for Kenyan and South African people 382 00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:10,059 and we hadn't consulted any South African and Kenyan people in the design process. 383 00:37:10,060 --> 00:37:13,360 Yeah, and you know, I consider myself a design thinker really. 384 00:37:14,290 --> 00:37:21,519 So that for me was very pivotal because you think that you have this, you know, idea, 385 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:27,399 this image of what you're trying to do and what change you're trying to create and you never think to engage other people. 386 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,710 That's way about echoing chamber comes up because we were just like passing ideas in between us and we're like, This is amazing, this is amazing. 387 00:37:32,980 --> 00:37:39,400 And ever really saying, actually, I need to step outside and just ask if anyone would be interested in this. 388 00:37:39,850 --> 00:37:46,510 So I think when you're considering that even though you know, you have a mission and for us it's to create change in the space, 389 00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:50,649 you have to obviously engage the audiences that you're going to be working with. 390 00:37:50,650 --> 00:37:57,760 It's a simple it's like it's common sense design, but we so often forget it when we have all these cool ideas. 391 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,700 I mean, it even made us at one point question virtuality as a medium, 392 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:06,640 but now we're trying to work around the challenges of it because we still consider it's a very impactful experience for you. 393 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,400 But yeah, I think that for us was the biggest lesson is that, you know, to stop the echoing chamber, 394 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,870 go and listen to other perspectives, go and read articles that make you uncomfortable. 395 00:38:17,110 --> 00:38:23,559 Go and listen to other people's opinions that you definitely don't agree with in order to understand the problem 396 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,180 so much greater and to understand them because they're the ones that have to receive the message in the end. 397 00:38:29,290 --> 00:38:35,140 And I mean, if you have three and a half million visitors a month, they are still often described as a niche. 398 00:38:35,230 --> 00:38:39,129 How do you kind of speak to people outside of that? Yeah, I think it's a really good question. 399 00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:45,340 And I think a simple solution is hire the people that you want to engage. 400 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,530 So don't just like it's easy. And we've been guilty of it at times, certainly as well. 401 00:38:50,530 --> 00:38:53,019 You're making a lot of assumptions about what, you know, 402 00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:58,060 a certain demographic wants or a certain region wants or a certain set of people or a scene however you like, 403 00:38:58,170 --> 00:38:59,680 you know, and you make these assumptions. 404 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:07,419 But, you know, there's a famous saying about assumptions and it's right, you know, and so you need to you know, you need to make sure that, 405 00:39:07,420 --> 00:39:12,579 you know, if you want a more diverse audience or if you want a younger audience or whatever, then you need to hire younger people. 406 00:39:12,580 --> 00:39:17,020 You need to hire people from diverse backgrounds and to make sure that those those 407 00:39:17,020 --> 00:39:20,620 people in those scenes and those points of view of being represented internally, 408 00:39:20,860 --> 00:39:24,759 and then you're making those decisions from a very genuine place rather than 409 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:31,460 just assuming what people want based on your certain set of experiences also. 410 00:39:32,530 --> 00:39:36,810 Okay, so there are a couple of others. It will go up that and then buy them. 411 00:39:36,820 --> 00:39:43,899 And then the next question for you, you describe your community as being on a level and you're from left. 412 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:52,160 And so the sort of the rising deejay superstar can be dancing with the young kid or the guy who handles tickets or whatever it is you also described, 413 00:39:52,160 --> 00:40:01,270 do you have an old school business model? So how does the loss of the equality in your community translate into your your business? 414 00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:03,770 So it's very much a community driven business. 415 00:40:03,770 --> 00:40:12,230 What kind of hierarchical structure is and does it does it sort of look similar or feel similar to the community, which is all on the level? 416 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,420 I hope. I mean, I'll speak on behalf of my staff. I hope. 417 00:40:18,420 --> 00:40:27,460 Hopefully, yes. You know, we you know, the term kind of family gets a bit overused in business, but I like to think of us that way. 418 00:40:27,780 --> 00:40:34,250 You know, we have you know, we have a prerequisite to work at resident advisor, which is you have to be passionate about electronic music. 419 00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:42,910 So it doesn't matter if you're the CFO or the office junior or whatever, you need that single passion point and that makes it harder for that college. 420 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:48,180 How do you interview for that? Do you kind of go through this process like let's. 421 00:40:48,450 --> 00:40:51,770 Well, I don't give away all the things. Right. 422 00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:54,870 But it's, you know, and certainly for developers and things like that, 423 00:40:54,870 --> 00:41:01,499 it it makes it harder to hire them because there's less developers than there are jobs for that. 424 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:05,850 So, you know, we take an already tight kind of talent pool and we shrink it down even more so. 425 00:41:06,570 --> 00:41:13,170 But it means once you get these people in the building, they they can pass the what I call like the long flight haul the long haul flight test, 426 00:41:13,470 --> 00:41:19,080 which is, you know, that you can sit next to anyone in the company at any level for a flight from London to Australia. 427 00:41:19,090 --> 00:41:21,900 And and, you know, you'd have at least one thing to talk about. 428 00:41:22,140 --> 00:41:27,030 And, and that single kind of passion point is a really powerful thing for, for a business. 429 00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:32,010 And so it means that you're on a level to your point, like with someone who's just started at whatever level they are. 430 00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:35,760 You can talk about music, you can talk about festivals, you like whatever it may be. 431 00:41:35,970 --> 00:41:43,770 And and it's one of the things I think that's really kind of given us a strong internal culture is that single passion point. 432 00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:48,299 And we've never been a particularly hierarchical organisation or or anything like that. 433 00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:53,760 So I'd like to think that the business reflects the dance floor. It's a great phrase. 434 00:41:55,470 --> 00:42:02,490 So we're going to go back there. So this is been an amazing juxtaposition of two really passionate people who are both artists, 435 00:42:02,490 --> 00:42:07,140 both creating and influencing communities, but doing it with two totally different tools. 436 00:42:07,470 --> 00:42:11,370 And we've spent a lot of time this year reinforcing thinking fast and slow. 437 00:42:11,370 --> 00:42:18,360 And this notion of, you know, there's there's one part of our brains that is influenced by ration and facts and information. 438 00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:21,239 So you've definitely got that position represented here, 439 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:28,650 creating these 10,000 word exposes from which people can excerpt facts to use to to support their arguments. 440 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,719 And then you have the other part of your brain in the way that it makes decisions, which is that you have a visceral, 441 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:37,650 emotional response to something, and then you just find the information that backs that up. 442 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:46,260 So it's really fascinating to have both of you on the stage, and I'd kind of like to hear about why you chose to use the particular tool that you use. 443 00:42:46,530 --> 00:42:53,190 And I'd like to hear you ask each other a question that doesn't start a whole second podcast going to get us. 444 00:42:55,380 --> 00:43:03,600 I Why did you choose to use long form? Can I build on that? 445 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:12,240 I know I'm not meant to be asking questions now, but hey, it's my podcast, so I wanted to say that all season long. 446 00:43:14,010 --> 00:43:20,280 If only it was the first time I said that the you spoken a couple of times about your passion for journalism specifically, 447 00:43:20,580 --> 00:43:30,420 so I'm really interested to understand where that comes from. Yeah, I mean, I don't know where it comes from per se, but I, you know, 448 00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:35,550 I just I really admire great writing, you know, especially in the non-fiction space. 449 00:43:36,210 --> 00:43:43,890 But, you know, I'm an avid subscriber to The New Yorker and, you know, I but because mainly because of the journalism, like, 450 00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:49,350 I know that it doesn't matter if the article's about lemonade, it'll be the best article that's ever been written about lemonade. 451 00:43:49,350 --> 00:43:55,200 And and I will as much appreciate the, the fascinating story of which there are as well as the quality of the writing. 452 00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:02,040 And so I wanted to create a platform that could support the best journalists in electronic music who I believe write for us, 453 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,730 but they write for us because we've got the best distribution platform for them. 454 00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:11,070 And, you know, we've got incredible editors that can make their work, you know, really shine. 455 00:44:11,310 --> 00:44:19,920 And so hopefully, as it's a it's the most viable platform for the best journalists within the art form to showcase their work. 456 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:25,620 And that's something that we always wanted to provide basically, and hopefully always will. 457 00:44:26,220 --> 00:44:31,560 Yeah. So I guess I can maybe speak to tier two parts with our friends. 458 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,730 We focussed heavily on written pieces and specifically with photojournalism. 459 00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:43,890 So within the team, like all of us are all trained photographers now shooting different like concert photography. 460 00:44:43,890 --> 00:44:48,870 But most importantly, when we were doing social documentary, we were all very good at that. 461 00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:56,560 I think for us it was important because we saw it was member who we're creating content for and that, you know, 462 00:44:56,610 --> 00:45:02,429 the times that we've seen like our friends evolve, we've also seen kind of like our audience evolve with the times. 463 00:45:02,430 --> 00:45:08,730 So we were focussed heavily on the written pieces and photojournalism because that's what our audience wanted. 464 00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:13,280 But you know, the way that our friends is moving now, we're creating a lot more of. 465 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,130 Video short form content because people are consuming a lot more of that. 466 00:45:17,550 --> 00:45:21,990 It's been an interesting change for us because for us it's more important that the message gets across. 467 00:45:22,980 --> 00:45:30,090 But I mean, like in terms of like, you know, bootstrapping and hiring your way through things and and trying to raise funds that way. 468 00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:38,010 Learning how to do video journalism, which was never one of our core strength until we got team members that could do that was was a bit of a mission. 469 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:48,300 I think I did speak a bit about the choice for VR for for Evolve Revolve, which is more to create a very personal and connected experience. 470 00:45:48,690 --> 00:45:49,049 I guess. 471 00:45:49,050 --> 00:45:57,629 Additionally, on top of that, there are certain things you can do in virtual reality to engage the user, but you could never do in any other art form. 472 00:45:57,630 --> 00:46:05,250 And one of the things that we're exploring for a film festival set up would be a mixed reality experience, where you're touched in the experience, 473 00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:09,660 like maybe someone will give you a hug in the experience while you see someone reaching for you, 474 00:46:10,350 --> 00:46:18,750 which could create a very different emotional take on the piece and think, okay, I think we probably have time for one more question. 475 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,950 So, I mean, in the audience. Yeah. 476 00:46:23,110 --> 00:46:27,650 Oh, here. Go. Okay. 477 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:39,180 I don't know the worms, but there is a debate ongoing at the moment about whether it is the place for a platform to influence people. 478 00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:43,280 So Facebook, for example, Google. 479 00:46:43,380 --> 00:46:49,380 Same. Same. Same issue as the founder of the platform and clearly an opinionated one. 480 00:46:49,950 --> 00:46:54,780 What's your view? I think you've got to look at the motives. 481 00:46:57,060 --> 00:47:02,340 We we want to influence people. Of course we do. But we want to influence them positively. 482 00:47:02,670 --> 00:47:08,420 And we want to you know, we essentially write about stuff that interests us and stuff that we believe in, 483 00:47:08,430 --> 00:47:11,790 artists that we think are worth supporting and showcasing. 484 00:47:12,060 --> 00:47:20,850 So, yes, we hope to influence our audience by introducing them to music and scenes and events that they might otherwise have discovered on their own, 485 00:47:21,180 --> 00:47:25,470 but to enhance their life, to positively impact their existence on this planet. 486 00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:37,260 Facebook, not so much. And so I think, you know, like, yes, platforms will you know, they will have a purpose to influence. 487 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:44,010 But you have to look at the motives of that purpose. And and that can obviously exist on a fairly wide scale. 488 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,840 Fantastic. Thank you both so much. 489 00:47:49,730 --> 00:47:54,290 And I'd like to invite the audience just to join me in a round of applause, because I've really this. 490 00:48:03,950 --> 00:48:13,339 So just to just to finish off this episode, we've been talking all morning about this place and what this place means to us. 491 00:48:13,340 --> 00:48:18,290 And during during this conversation, we've also talked about place and what it means. 492 00:48:18,860 --> 00:48:24,560 And when I arrived in Oxford, my dad gave me a book which is actually written about 100 years ago, is based in Oxford. 493 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:33,320 And it's about a girl who comes to Oxford and has adventures. And there's a wonderful description of this place, which I'd like to read. 494 00:48:34,940 --> 00:48:39,290 Oxford That lotus land saps the willpower, the power of action. 495 00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:43,070 But in doing so, it clarifies the mind, makes larger. 496 00:48:43,070 --> 00:48:50,960 The vision gives above all that playful and caressing, suave ity of manner, which comes of a conviction that nothing matters except ideas. 497 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:58,550 If the colleges could be transferred to the dry embracing top of somehow, doubtless they would be more evident and useful to the nation. 498 00:48:59,150 --> 00:49:03,110 But let us be glad there is no engineer or enchanter to compass that task. 499 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,390 I would like to have the rest of England subside into the sea, then have Oxford set on a salubrious level, 500 00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:11,990 for there is nothing in England to be match with what lurks in the vapours of 501 00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:17,420 these matters and in the shadows of these spires that mysterious and evil spirits. 502 00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:20,570 The spirit of Oxford. Thanks wearing on. 503 00:49:35,460 --> 00:49:41,250 Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Feature Business Podcast brought to you by Savvy Business School. 504 00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:45,750 This is the last episode in the current series of the podcast. 505 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,640 We started it this year to pursue and share some of the incredible conversations. 506 00:49:50,850 --> 00:49:54,750 We were privileged enough to have during our year as MBAs in Oxford. 507 00:49:55,410 --> 00:49:59,010 Sadly, a year is on the mend, but the podcast will continue. 508 00:49:59,190 --> 00:50:06,420 A brand new team from the 2018 19 cohort will be taking over, and we're really looking forward to listening to what they do next in season two. 509 00:50:07,380 --> 00:50:11,010 Please do subscribe in iTunes so you get the new episodes when they arrive. 510 00:50:11,850 --> 00:50:16,050 A huge thank you to all our listeners from this season for your feedback and support. 511 00:50:16,410 --> 00:50:20,700 It's been an absolute pleasure being your host for this inaugural season of the show. 512 00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:29,460 So for the final time, the Future of Business podcast was created by Patrick Brady, Emily Michaelson and Paris. 513 00:50:29,940 --> 00:50:37,770 Thank you for listening and goodbye. Although.