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The Future of business. Future of business.

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Peugeot business is more global and more decentralised, making sure that enterprises are a lot more responsible.

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Smart cities, more collaboration. Consumer driven productivity.

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Environmental and social responsibility. Global human centred.

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Purposeful Individualised Automation. Big Data.

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Climate Change. Space Exploration, renewable energy information security, exciting and digital.

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Hello and welcome to the Future of Business Podcast. I'm your host, Allison McArthur.

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In this episode we'll be talking to two leaders who are bringing their philosophy to the soda industry.

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Simon Cody and his team set up Comic Cola in New Zealand in 2012 and produced Fairtrade organic sodas with hip artsy labels.

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At the heart of the company is a simple idea to make a product that truly gives

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back to the communities who produce it and empowers them to build a better future.

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A portion of the profits from each bottle sold goes back to the tea community in Sierra Leone for local projects through the Comic Cola Foundation,

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chaired by Albert Tucker. We recently caught up with Albert and Simon here in Oxford.

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Welcome and thank you for joining us. Thank you. So we just dive right in.

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I was wondering, Simon, if you could tell us a little bit about how the idea for Comic Cola came to you?

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From my place on a beach in New Zealand was the discovery of each good thing, standing between two close friends and business partners.

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And I were thinking about what we should do next.

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Chris Morrison, who has had a business called Phoenix Organics and was a pioneer in organic soft drinks in New Zealand.

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His brother Matt and I were kind of at a crossroads, I suppose.

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I'd just finished working for a company that sold to Bacardi and thinking about what to do

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next and had been in the Army and in the Treasury and was about ready to do something new.

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And we had oh, we're all interested in the idea of kind of business as an as a way of doing good as well as being profitable.

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So it was kind of part of the conversation we'd been having.

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And Chris had been in Samoa and seen that there was great organic produce growing there that wasn't making it to market.

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And and I having heard that, I thought I wouldn't mind helping do that.

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It'd be an interesting thing to do. We learned that we're probably not that good at importing fresh produce because we hadn't done it before.

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We had a lot of rotten bananas to deal with, but we soon learned that there's a big demand for kind of purpose led ethical,

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sustainable produce in New Zealand and that it was kind of untapped.

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So fast forward a few years and we had a business that was selling Fairtrade bananas.

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It gave us confidence to do something else, which is where we met Albert and had this idea that the way we could explain our

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value to customers was by way of a virtuous circle that they were supporting,

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not just the environment that these products came from,

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but the people that were growing them and that they their purchase would be beneficial all the way through their virtuous circle.

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And the idea of karma came out of that,

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that that kind of explains in a good shorthand what we're trying to achieve commercially and ultra altruistically.

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We thought that kind of a call. It sounded quite good. It was the sort of name that led to the idea of the time.

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And because we'd been looking at other products and that was a sort of prefix to it karma coconut, karma, chocolate, kind coffee.

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But Carmichael was the one we thought, You know what? This is probably the most consumed consumer good in the world.

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Wouldn't it be great to create a contrast, you know, as something that, you know, soft drinks aren't that great.

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You know, they are things we love, but they're not essential.

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You know, if you're thirsty, water's pretty good for hydration.

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But if you want to, you know, enjoy the taste of something, then soft drinks are quite good.

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But we thought, why couldn't we make these things do good as well as taste good?

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And that's where the idea came from. And Alex, you grew up in Sierra Leone and you've worked in factory products for some time now.

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What brought you to Tacoma Cola? Well, actually started, you know, had been through a really particularly nasty ten year war.

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And I'd been spending some time trying to promote business with Turn in the Business for good,

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a business that would help and growth and redevelopment.

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So talking to different communities that when I heard I was contacted by the guys from New Zealand saying,

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you want to do this company that wants to do good as well as deliver.

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And so for me that was just the perfect. And then they were looking, you know, trying to find a source of colourants.

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And of course, I grew up in West Africa very familiar with nuts.

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And it was an opportunity for some communities in Sierra Leone to engage with a business that actually intends to actually contribute something back.

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So it was really easy decision. Who made Makary.

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And in fact, when we started, we had conversations and agreed to what we were going to do and went and did it,

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that there were no contracts or formal agreements.

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We just going in there and and and then six months later, there was a drink that was fantastic tasting drink,

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which the communities loved to be part of and is one of the few, if not only drink that product in the supermarket, you can look a premium product.

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You can look at that has said and acknowledge it's an ingredient from.

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Leone Absolutely. SIMON You've mentioned that it's important that organisations give communities like these a hand up rather than a hand out.

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And as you mentioned, all that light to eyes, a community that had to deal with some terrible struggles in recent history.

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Do you think bringing trade to these communities sort of helps them to rebuild and bring stability?

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From our own experience, it definitely seems to be doing that.

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I think there's a level of engagement that's really important to understand in the way we're trying to do this,

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that we have had to have first hand relationships with producers,

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that we're not trying to use the idea of doing good as a label on the outside of our product,

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as much as being intrinsic in the way we behave as an organisation.

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So, you know, one of the things that that gives us is the right to talk, you know,

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reasonably intimately about the people that we work with there, which is part of the story that help sell our products.

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What we're saying is that because we right from the start thought that we can't treat this as charity,

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we can't be just putting money into a community without seeing it create independence.

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So the idea of trade is really important. Even if we're not buying an enormous amount of quality of quantity of cola,

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we're making sure that it is a really strong relationship in terms of the commercial benefit to both us and them and the fund that we've created.

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And the independent organisation, the Chemical, a foundation that Albert chairs,

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is primarily interested in helping them become independent of that from us,

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which is kind of an anathema because commercially we really want to be connected to them so we can tell the story and sell the drinks.

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But for the foundation to be successful, these guys should be able to do it without us ultimately.

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So that's the interesting contract. So what's great is that we have programs there that are instigated by the benefactors, not by us.

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They come to us with an idea like the original thing we did was pay for a bridge to be built.

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They built it. You know, the foreman was someone in the village.

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We only had to supply a kind of bare minimum of of funds and materials and intent for them to get on with it.

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And as long as we follow that pattern, it seems to be quite successful.

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And can you tell us a little bit about the story behind the bridge?

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When we started, it only started when we found out that really the major brands in the world with a name cornering them no longer use Kola nuts.

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So you find that's why I call them nuts. A lot of valuable commodity.

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They're very locally used and we thought, well, if we're going to be true to the karma in the company,

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let's create a way to contribute to the development of these communities.

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So they do well as well. So that's where the foundation came from.

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And when we initially got the foundation off the ground, the thought of more we've learned,

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we said we want the community to drive this, not us, from London and New Zealand.

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So they had a committee that was already there working on conservation of asylum to Ireland, and so we engaged with them.

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And then the first thing they wanted us to do in the main village, we headquarters village, their villages,

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collaborating in the headquarter village, they said actually they think that would be fantastic for us as a bridge.

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And, you know, nowadays we talk about the bridge being symbolic and metaphorical, but my first reaction was a bridge.

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Really, that's the best we can do. We need something like actually that village in the in the winter months gets split into two.

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So two halves of the village come in. Families are across that bridge.

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So you either have to swim across this river tributary or you don't performance got cross with

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the villages isolated so and also things like democratic process doesn't happen as well.

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The chiefs kind of get there if somebody is able to kind of get them out of the village and that kind of thing.

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So it made sense. So we built it and then we said, well, you know, could you help us with bus three so girls to go to school.

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So again, it's not a quest. This is an interrogation iterative relationship, which is one of the strength of it.

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They wanted us to form bus routes. We're going to school. And Switzerland were saying, well, shouldn't you be sending girls to school anyway?

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And they said, Well, no, look, if a family can only send some of their children to school,

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they will send the boys and actually nearly all communities.

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This is what has happened. So. So what if you.

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My devices will make sure that the families who can't afford it can get girls to school as well.

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And that's what they've done. So the relationship is quite a symbiotic one.

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So how do you bring this story to consumers?

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You know, this there's sort of the coal industry isn't a new industry,

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despite the fact you've mentioned, you know, the big players don't actually have that as an ingredient.

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Which is which is really interesting is something I certainly didn't know and I imagine most consumers aren't aware of.

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How do you compete in this in this market? So we've got a lot to tell, as you've heard.

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But we only have in a similar market point 3 seconds to get that across.

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So we have to rely on first just the packaging.

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The thing you mentioned earlier that catching someone's attention visually is a really good way to start.

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And contrasting or delighting people with an illustration, which is what we've done with our packages, is a really good way to catch them.

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And if we if we look good, then I think we've invited people to taste the product.

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The next thing that has to happen in that whole customer experience is that it's got to taste correct

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because we don't have the right to ask them to buy us again unless they've enjoyed the first experience.

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So that sample is so important.

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So we put a lot of stock into the quality of the ingredients and the recipe and the way we present that in the way people taste it.

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I can testify not to be delicious. I'm only setting up to do some of the stuff trying to make my way through it.

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So if we got those first two things right,

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then hopefully we can tell them the story because we've got their attention and engaged in a way that should give us the right to to,

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to to tell a little bit more. And as I say, there's so much we could say.

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So the important thing is that they understand that having bought the product, they've actually done some good, but that it's not just an indulgence.

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This pleasure beyond your own satisfaction and there might be some of the help is high you

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know the satisfaction that comes from knowing that you've been of assistance to someone else.

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So we're trying to say a soft drink, which is not a non-essential thing,

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can be an act in that idea that that that a company like us can take responsibility

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for more than just generating value out of something they produce for themselves,

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that it can go further than that in a social, environmental and hopefully a comic way.

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What we're trying to do is make that kind of aethereal idea much more tangible, because I believe that if you've got that far,

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someone will want to share that story so people understand the transaction and feel good about it and enjoy it.

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You know, chances are they'll share it and if they share it, then we're winning.

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Yeah. Bringing the message and the magic of the planet to the rest of the world.

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So. So we ask people, just join us. Absolutely. And you've developed somewhat something of a cult following.

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I sense that customers we mentioned tatty high price the character.

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We should go into your ginger beer labels.

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How did that start and how do you think so?

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Honestly, it started because, you know, the first thing, the first product we made, Kama Cola.

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I tried to design a kind of comical IT label and it was really bad.

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So I thought,

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I better get some people who are not who I can work with and know a bit more about this to kind of figure out how do we make this really engaging.

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And we looked at lots of different ways of talking about this idea.

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And the story that really got us going was in the river near the village that we principally trade with is a spirit called Mummy Water.

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She visited a chief of the Village Seven Chiefs ago and suggested in the in the chief sleep that if he didn't make the next chief a woman,

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they'd be trouble. And since then, every chief has been a woman.

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Now, the story was just great entwined with this, the idea of cola being, you know,

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a ritual ingredient in the friendship and the socialising of the community.

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It sort of felt like if we could get that visually on the thing, just to be an interpretation doesn't have to be literal.

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We've got we've got a starting point. The other thing I thought that was really interesting is the idea of karma being good and bad and that,

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you know, in our ingredients is things like sugar that that that, you know, you don't overindulge in.

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But also there's this karmic property of the transaction doing some good somewhere else.

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I quite like that tension that we saw and in some of the research, a little Mexican retired,

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like the sort of votive paintings that you have made for for for strangely mundane miracles.

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So, you know, you break your leg, inhale. You get one of these things voted votive paintings made to Our Lady of Guadalupe.

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And you know. I'd seen one, and it was the devil chasing an angel.

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And it just looked great and looked like the sort of folk thing that would represent this mummy water.

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And there was another thing that we saw, which was a. Just a snake itself with the words written around the outside.

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What goes around comes around.

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And we thought, you know, that tension again that you give and you get that if you have this idea that you should be treated as you treat people,

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that these sorts of, you know, common, you know, fundamental social ideas could be embraced in something that really isn't necessary.

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Yeah, that that tension is kind of interesting. So that's where we started, kind of complicated,

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but it turned into this great little drawing of a mermaid chasing a devil mermaid and Miami Water in its principal personality.

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Her personality is both good and bad. If you don't behave, she'll admonish you.

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And if you do, you'll be rewarded. And that's rivers are like that.

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They give life and they take love. Storms are like that.

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You know that. The kind of mythology of the water spirits. So it all made sense to us and turned into this great little drawing.

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So that was where it started. You know, that looks fantastic. And it's got caramel colour on it.

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Maybe that'll work. Not the most obvious way to package a fast moving consumer.

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Good, but it worked because it caught people on an emotional kind of level,

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and then it gave us the opportunity to hopefully get to taste it and then find out more.

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We then tried to do the next one because we had one drink.

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We need to fill a shelf and a fridge, which was ginger, ginger, ginger ale.

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And we got Beth who did that initial drawing to have a crack at us with us

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thinking about the ginger that comes from Sri Lanka and there are tigers there.

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And so we came out with a whole lot of other characters, but they looked so much like the first one.

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They kind of made the first one less important and we thought, Why don't we just do this differently?

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And one of the woman we were working with for her said, I had a thought for a great name, ginger ale.

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And as soon as she said that, I thought, that's great. You know, all we have to do is find out what ginger ale looks like.

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So we had this process, which was a bit like us trying to create a mona Lisa, and that was kind of an enigmatic thing.

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They had to take form and ginger ale. It became this kind of homage to a, you know, creatively fiery personality with red hair.

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So she's got a thing that this stuff, you know, sits on supermarket shelves and in people's cafes, but people have adopted it.

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So ginger ale has come back to us as tattoos. So is that lemonade living in Lebanon?

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Come back to us as murals for someone silkscreened it on a speaker.

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You know, there are there are big posters.

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There are dream catchers. The redhead community has adopted her.

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There's a woman called Emer Kelly who writes a blog called Ginger Parrot, who is a staunch advocate for people with real hair and fantastic with it.

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And she celebrated Red Hair Day, which happened to be the same day that Prince Harry chose to get married.

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And we made an homage to the royal wedding and had a ginger fella on a bottle.

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So this there's a lot of scope for us to have fun with that, with the drinks.

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That's that's great fun. So, you know, you've done very well over the last few years.

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You've sold 12 million drinks in 23 countries.

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What are your plans for further expansion?

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And is it is a challenge to grow in a sustainable way, ensuring that, you know,

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the whole supply chain is it's we've been successful in engaging with a very specific type of customer,

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like in cafes or great fast casual dining restaurants like on US burgers like Byron Light Tortilla Caravan or some that would be here after work.

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We're in Waterstones in Oxford, they're in Waitrose. All these places have similar values to us,

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and that's been our way of kind of getting into these sales channels because it's this highly contested shelf space or meaning space.

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And the challenge is to broaden that that base.

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And it's it's a really interesting one, both commercially and kind of from a marketing point of view,

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because we have this fan base that are pretty well defined and we'd like to grow

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it and we can't really spend a [INAUDIBLE] of a lot on marketing to do it.

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We've got because we put that money back into the communities we work with.

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So, you know, it's a kind of our success has as a sort of double edged sword.

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Can we get is growth going to be helpful? We think it will.

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You know, hopefully the more drinks we sell, the more good we can do. So now our challenge is to try and get it broader distribution at a premium.

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And you know, what we've come up against is that when we've got a, you know, 30% to 50 to 100% premium against our competition,

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we've got to justify that, which is what marketing is mostly about saying if you.

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Or a premium product, you really do need to be able to substantiate your brand.

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So that's our challenge, is to have more people know about it for them on that note.

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But Simon, thanks so much for joining us today. It's been a real pleasure.

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Thanks. Thank you, as always for listening to the Future of Business podcast.

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We hope you've enjoyed the season so far.

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Please consider reaching us or sending your feedback to us directly at SBS podcasts at SBS Dogs Don't Ask Don't UK.