1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:11,450 Well, thank you very much, dear friends. I am really grateful to Professor McMillan, 2 00:00:11,930 --> 00:00:19,669 to Martin Davidson and to my friend Martin Bithell for the invitation to speak about the 3 00:00:19,670 --> 00:00:25,970 challenges facing human rights in the global year at the annual Sergio Vieira de Mello Lecture. 4 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:40,250 Sergio's entire life was dedicated to the ideals of human rights and humanitarian work for whom freedom and human dignity were. 5 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:51,560 The foundations of peace and justice served was courageous and compassionate, bold but also pragmatic. 6 00:00:52,490 --> 00:00:55,760 Often at the frontiers or front lines. 7 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,840 But always taking the side of the weak. The vulnerable. 8 00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:11,930 The powerless. Uncompromising in his principles, but with a gift for listening and learning from those you're working with. 9 00:01:13,370 --> 00:01:18,379 And he had the capacity to combine a maximum flexibility in dealing with the 10 00:01:18,380 --> 00:01:24,950 complexities of real life situations with a strong commitment to basic values. 11 00:01:26,150 --> 00:01:32,420 This allowed him to stand on the side of the victims while taking to all the parties. 12 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:37,060 We. Perhaps this is a close. 13 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:47,770 So this is as close as one can get to being a practitioner of what I could call the art of politics as a part of my next book. 14 00:01:48,550 --> 00:01:51,670 This combination of vision, in fact matters. 15 00:01:52,450 --> 00:02:03,919 Flexibility, the means and consistency only goes from Cambodia to Bosnia, Rwanda to Kosovo, East Timor, Iraq. 16 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:09,520 I several came to meet with some of the most dreadful copies of the last decade. 17 00:02:09,670 --> 00:02:16,300 By the way, I have been to Timor when I was there, so I was to see this representative. 18 00:02:17,590 --> 00:02:22,180 It was really something very impressed to see this man. 19 00:02:22,510 --> 00:02:26,120 Has it been said by men of cancer? 20 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:35,730 A beautiful man and totally devoted? It was focussed there and talking to everyone in Timor at that time. 21 00:02:35,820 --> 00:02:40,840 It was still very cool and to do it was unstable. 22 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:52,420 I was yet president so it was impossible to receive me any more because without any hotel or the centre to stay there. 23 00:02:52,460 --> 00:02:58,620 So in order to offer me loans, we had to move to a war. 24 00:02:59,550 --> 00:03:05,530 It was there for a long time because of sorts of reasons, the situation into war. 25 00:03:05,980 --> 00:03:11,230 It is really something very impressive to see home schedules moving ahead. 26 00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:15,820 I went to a different place in Timor. I went to see schools in Timor, 27 00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:24,160 to see priests in Timor and also there for having me to try to judge Portuguese 28 00:03:25,090 --> 00:03:28,600 people in future more because they were not able to speak Portuguese correctly. 29 00:03:29,050 --> 00:03:41,320 They just have to adapt from some, you know, grammar in order to preserve the process of the process of educating few more people into Portuguese. 30 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:55,690 And that for me was wonderful because my wife was at the time very active in trying to talk to and to face the problem of illiteracy in Brazil. 31 00:03:55,750 --> 00:04:02,050 And she created an organisation named something like that, a community solidarity, 32 00:04:02,830 --> 00:04:10,690 and this organisation was there to try trying to also to help what has been done in several old time there. 33 00:04:10,870 --> 00:04:16,360 So to me is not just something that I'm saying because I have to give you a lecture, 34 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,579 but something that they feel profoundly because I thought the health service was 35 00:04:21,580 --> 00:04:27,070 capable to motivate people and to take the leadership in very difficult situations. 36 00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:32,680 So let me say to you that you are the central convoy. 37 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:40,020 The two boards are one, of course, Kosovo, East Timor, 17, to give you some of the most dreadful conflict of the last decades, 38 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:48,130 with time and again, you are confronted with life in that question for which there were no easy answers. 39 00:04:48,850 --> 00:04:55,240 How to Balance the Obligation to Protect the victims. We did a session of human rights violations. 40 00:04:55,690 --> 00:05:02,530 What kinds of compromise are or are not acceptable to minimise human suffering? 41 00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:06,340 At what point pragmatism becomes complacency? 42 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:07,780 We the inseparable. 43 00:05:09,010 --> 00:05:19,150 When is dialogue no longer an option and the aggressor has to be engaged despite the risk that in the short term the level of violence may increase. 44 00:05:19,690 --> 00:05:26,620 How to define this moment in which face with the massive human rights abuse and crimes against humanity. 45 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,090 It is legitimate to use force in the pursuit of peace. 46 00:05:32,090 --> 00:05:40,240 Several felt that the way for war was always to invent on the spot the most appropriate set of ground rules. 47 00:05:41,020 --> 00:05:51,880 Georgia International Community Technology that fragment in systematic violation of human rights are frequently the main cause of global insecurity. 48 00:05:52,690 --> 00:05:58,420 It was also convinced that top down approach are bound to fail. 49 00:05:59,290 --> 00:06:06,670 Outsiders can help. Many think moving expertise, political pressure are important tools, 50 00:06:07,450 --> 00:06:16,250 but no lasting outcome can be attained without the empowerment of local leaders and the building of local capacities. 51 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,160 Human rights and democracy are human inventions. 52 00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:34,180 It is not a given, but the structure rooted in the history and culture of each society, they are never defined all and for all other expression of. 53 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:37,030 Human needs it as a result of human action. 54 00:06:37,540 --> 00:06:48,190 Their frame is a work in progress, and Fincher brought in new questions and demands the result of an ever evolving political and social landscape. 55 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:54,700 That is why I believe that addressing some of the key challenges for human rights in today's 56 00:06:54,700 --> 00:07:02,470 world is a fitting way to pay tribute to the ideals that inspired Sergio Vieira de Mello life. 57 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,240 I will focus on five critical challenges. 58 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:20,290 The first one, and perhaps the most complex of all, is the tension between universal human rights and respect for cultural and religious diversity. 59 00:07:21,430 --> 00:07:25,780 Human rights are universal, interlinked and indivisible. 60 00:07:26,530 --> 00:07:30,670 But the world is more than ever before and multicultural. 61 00:07:31,570 --> 00:07:35,190 Hence the paradox we are confronted with. 62 00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:45,350 We are confronted with how to ensure that respect for diversity does not lead to the uncritical scepticism of religious fundamentalism. 63 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,130 How far the tolerance of intolerance can go without revealing itself? 64 00:07:52,180 --> 00:07:57,220 What are the precious core values that must be safeguarded in any situation? 65 00:07:58,090 --> 00:08:07,720 It is true that is not a straight answer to these questions, but it is also true that the international community, 66 00:08:08,380 --> 00:08:13,420 through dialogue and debate, has been for a minimum set of standards. 67 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:25,870 I think we can safely say at this point that this emerging consensus about what is clearly an acceptable encompasses for crimes against humanity, 68 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:31,000 like ethnic cleansing or the use of famine as a weapon of war. 69 00:08:32,170 --> 00:08:39,249 Second, atrocities like the systematic use of torture against political opponents to the 70 00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:45,010 indiscriminate violence against the civilian population in situations of armed conflicts. 71 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:52,720 The point I would like to stress is that the global political debate plays a critical role in these debates. 72 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:58,660 It is no longer a only two states, an international organisation to set the standards. 73 00:08:59,410 --> 00:09:04,780 The voice influencing the process of the elimination are the many and diverse. 74 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,660 This leads me to the second challenge facing human rights in the global future. 75 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:21,970 Today, both state and non-state actors are increasingly responsible for the violations and the promotion of human rights. 76 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,160 These are challenges and an opportunity for the cause of human rights. 77 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:33,100 A challenge because it is much more difficult for the international community to 78 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:39,790 protect the victims of atrocities perpetrated by loosely organised network such as. 79 00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:40,310 Okay. 80 00:09:41,380 --> 00:09:51,460 This problem is compounded by the proliferation of failed states incapable or unwilling to control the actions not only of terrorist organisations, 81 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,830 but also the kerb going power of global organised crime. 82 00:09:58,380 --> 00:10:05,640 In today's Latin America, for example, drug related crime is no longer a problem for police and courts. 83 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,580 It is a direct challenge to governments and societies. 84 00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:18,840 The rising power of the drug mafias and cartels is destroying not only the lives of our young people. 85 00:10:19,380 --> 00:10:29,760 They also tearing apart the social fabric and undermining to violence and corruption the most basic principles of democracy. 86 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:42,510 As I said to you, I belong to a group of people in Latin America who decided to organise a commission on the three former presidents of Latin America. 87 00:10:42,570 --> 00:10:47,400 And a lot of it is social scientists, practitioners. 88 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,030 We decide to organise a commission. 89 00:10:51,450 --> 00:10:59,580 And why? Because of what I have said. Just nothing wrong is undermining democracy is not just a problem of blood by itself and police. 90 00:10:59,850 --> 00:11:04,750 It's also a political problem. If you look across the region, it's not just Colombia. 91 00:11:04,770 --> 00:11:09,330 Colombia's families, but not just below any real people, have a very similar situation. 92 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,430 If you go to Mexico, it's maybe worse in a kind of situation of despair. 93 00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:19,380 When the government take the decision to fight of trafficking, 94 00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:26,639 the government is losing the battle because the cartels are so well organised and so 95 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:35,190 powerful and they have been so profoundly involving the been made in local communities, 96 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:43,080 in provinces. That is extremely difficult to deal with with this kind of people. 97 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:50,160 On top of that, the crime has been also affected by the new wave of globalisation. 98 00:11:50,610 --> 00:11:59,450 You know, this not just of either is organised to get the new instruments and use using internet as more organisation. 99 00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:04,740 It's going to speed them in regaining their capacity to to to survive again and 100 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:08,820 again and again because they are no more hierarchy as it has in the past as mafia. 101 00:12:09,060 --> 00:12:15,120 You need that. He had a boss. No, no, it's different. There's no more priority in a boss. 102 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:24,059 We can, you know, criminal people can organise very, very easily by themselves, by using the same tools that we are using. 103 00:12:24,060 --> 00:12:29,300 How that is to say. The Wet Internet and you could organise it here and there. 104 00:12:29,570 --> 00:12:36,530 So it's very difficult to talk to me without putting not just in Latin America, across the world. 105 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,420 Anyhow, I think that because of that, 106 00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:49,520 the growing role of non-state actors is also an opportunity so far as so many more voices are being heard in the defence of human rights. 107 00:12:50,390 --> 00:13:00,560 They range from organisations with great legitimacy such as Amnesty, Amnesty International, to a rising role played by a wide variety of new actors. 108 00:13:00,950 --> 00:13:05,000 Spirit and civic and civic leaders sits in groups in public. 109 00:13:06,380 --> 00:13:07,460 40 years ago, 110 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:16,489 reports denouncing torture against political prisoners in Brazil had been physically carried by members of the real war Europe and the United States, 111 00:13:16,490 --> 00:13:27,440 often at considerable risk. One of the most effective action promoted by Amnesty International, or the saving by ordinary people freedom. 112 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,790 The Letters for torture, responsible for the mistreatment of political prisoners. 113 00:13:32,270 --> 00:13:35,600 Information today is a common public good. 114 00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:39,670 Click in the Internet data to flow all over the web. 115 00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:47,300 Power is shifting from states to society and from vertical organisation to flexible networks, 116 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:59,390 enforcement and empowering individuals also participate in this great, free, free flowing conversation about what is admissible and what is not. 117 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,550 The fifth. The third challenge is progress. Is it correct or is it? 118 00:14:06,020 --> 00:14:15,230 We was fooled by the global economic crisis that is upon us with this concept of development as an expansion of freedom. 119 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:26,120 Amartya Sen called attention to the interconnection between political freedom, economic empowerment, full of opportunities, transparency and security. 120 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:37,280 This vision contributed to the growing perception of extreme poverty and expanding global activities as a violation of basic human rights. 121 00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:44,480 This question gained a new urgency in face of the growing impact of the current financial meltdown. 122 00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:54,020 It is essential to prevent the corrosion of the great progress achieved in the last decade in terms of getting millions out of poverty. 123 00:14:55,160 --> 00:15:00,620 In an article published two weeks ago, two weeks ago in the Financial Times, Kofi Annan, 124 00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:07,070 Michele Clichy and Robert Rubin warned against the threat of a response to the crisis. 125 00:15:07,070 --> 00:15:18,890 That does not the goal the needs of the world's fault or worse, that results in more poverty, hunger, disease and illiteracy. 126 00:15:20,570 --> 00:15:27,980 Indeed, what a tremendous setback for the cause of human right is for people in poor 127 00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:32,870 countries to pay the price for a crisis that they have no role to increase. 128 00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:38,590 Here again, we are confronted with risk and opportunity. 129 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:48,840 Market fundamentalism has self-destructed in the same sudden and irrevocable way that the Soviet Union melted through the air. 130 00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:56,940 The reckless pursuit of profit at any cost has brought to that end. 131 00:15:58,110 --> 00:16:02,610 It is time to ask ourselves, what are the real foundations of social science? 132 00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:09,000 What is quality of life? And what are the needs and values that should Oriental collective behaviour? 133 00:16:09,630 --> 00:16:14,010 Unusual circumstances tend to create the rare opportunities. 134 00:16:14,730 --> 00:16:24,180 Conditions are ripe for the emergence of a new global contract, driven by a different mindset with freedom, dignity and human rights at its core. 135 00:16:25,290 --> 00:16:32,049 Everyone knows what's going to happen. We do it as a consequence of the financial crisis. 136 00:16:32,050 --> 00:16:36,870 But we are facing what was just beginning. You have to see what will happen. 137 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,250 I have been to Dayton two days ago in New York and Election Day was there. 138 00:16:42,060 --> 00:16:53,100 And I had the opportunity to have a conversation or a dialogue with several people involved with the financial area in the United States. 139 00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:57,630 They don't know what to do. They don't know what will happen. 140 00:16:57,990 --> 00:17:04,530 I'm not speak of anyone. A lot of people, depending upon how very important, is very responsible people. 141 00:17:04,830 --> 00:17:11,400 There's just no one thing. The situation is bad and the government will need governmental support. 142 00:17:12,210 --> 00:17:18,150 So it's one thing to see how these people have been so enthusiastic with free markets. 143 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:25,950 I'm not against, but they know the fundamentals in favour of free markets produce this kind of, you know, situation of despair. 144 00:17:26,070 --> 00:17:33,990 They don't know what to do. And I doubt if anyone is going to be capable now to say what to do. 145 00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:39,720 Probably they will have to do it to try several ways to solve it situation. 146 00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:45,910 But at the end have to people because unemployment is coming because poverty seven 147 00:17:45,930 --> 00:17:50,639 will increase across the board and those who have not to do with the financial 148 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:59,100 crisis will pay a high price goes up unemployment because of the cost of commodities 149 00:17:59,490 --> 00:18:05,070 because of the lack of of different opportunities to solve the situation. 150 00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:10,360 And this is also a problem that cannot be solved just by looking after the market. 151 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:19,620 You have to look at our society, what I said, and involve more people into the debate about what kind of future we went for, 152 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:27,660 that there was a strong war for mankind, not for each one of our countries, for mankind, because because of globalisation. 153 00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:31,470 Now again, suppose we speak about mankind in a different way. 154 00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:37,500 When I remember what has been said by Marx that you cannot use the concept of mankind, 155 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:45,360 because what is true is social process in mankind would be a kind of fake analysis of the real situation. 156 00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:50,670 Now again, I think it's necessary to review for that position for good, because mankind exists. 157 00:18:50,670 --> 00:19:02,310 That has been put together by, by, but not just by market, but also by the communication process that you have in all of global interplay. 158 00:19:02,610 --> 00:19:08,220 So we have to look after not just one nation, but have to all get together. 159 00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:14,650 This will require an enormous effort to some extent to rebuild the world order. 160 00:19:15,030 --> 00:19:19,440 Probably will have to start by trying to have a new sense of power, 161 00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:24,860 but then with interest and not just have a sense of power to have more discussion, more meetings. 162 00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:26,640 This is necessary, but it's not enough. 163 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:36,300 What we have to do to to do in an effort to create new institutions or to invigorate the already existing these institutions with a democratic spirit, 164 00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:43,559 enlarging the possibilities for different countries and people to have a say in the decision making process, 165 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,520 because we cannot just accept what is involved. 166 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:52,480 You need only one sense of what power is taking decision. 167 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:55,860 That is to say the government of United States. 168 00:19:56,460 --> 00:20:00,510 If you look what happened in recent days, weeks and days. 169 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:06,600 The fact is the American treasury became a kind of central bank of central banks. 170 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,070 What has been the Lord Keynes dream? 171 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:22,470 And he was prevented to realise the dream because the American Treasury Secretary at the time opposed to the King's ideas, 172 00:20:22,650 --> 00:20:25,470 that is to say, to create a real central bank of central bank. 173 00:20:25,740 --> 00:20:33,480 Suddenly you are seeing the Federal Reserve working as if there will be the central bank of central banks. 174 00:20:33,930 --> 00:20:39,540 I understand it. In current days I thought long term this is not acceptable because. 175 00:20:39,910 --> 00:20:48,910 The means of that is that from now on, the men's will have only one girl at all and say, this is not acceptable. 176 00:20:49,390 --> 00:20:57,250 So that's what I'm trying to raise, the fact that even the financial strength has to be face it from the perspective of mankind. 177 00:20:57,490 --> 00:21:00,280 So for the Prefect of rights who have the power, 178 00:21:00,460 --> 00:21:10,140 you have to do it to a large degree of the empowerment process in order to avoid the additional asymmetries as a consequence of financial crisis. 179 00:21:10,150 --> 00:21:14,380 I know that's very difficult, but we all like to think straight. 180 00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:19,420 I think someone has to try and hope nowadays imagine a better world. 181 00:21:19,790 --> 00:21:27,860 And this is not just about one person. This is also a collective, you know, we have otherwise wrong. 182 00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:39,069 Otherwise, those who are already commanding you can always seem to continue to commit anyhow that you move like the other little gems. 183 00:21:39,070 --> 00:21:42,460 I want to mention it and those are more specific. 184 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,830 What is linked to the questions of the transitional justice affecting society 185 00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:52,990 where the rule of law was restored after long periods of authoritarianism? 186 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,960 The other has to do with the threats to civil liberties raised by the war on terror. 187 00:21:59,650 --> 00:22:07,030 Let me you first with the question that has deeply affected some of the most advanced democracies since the events of 911. 188 00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:17,230 Reflecting on the growing restrictions imposed on the rule of law in the name of civil needs, Sergio Vieira de Mello sounded the alarm. 189 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:23,560 This said, We live in fearful times and fear is a bad advice. 190 00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:34,960 Who would have imagined eight, ten years ago that the world was about to witness a resurgence in the use of torture as a state voice? 191 00:22:35,950 --> 00:22:45,430 In the end, the steady erosion of basic civil rights in the name of the war on terror is one of the saddest developments in the field of human rights. 192 00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:50,079 In the discussion discussing the country's legal tradition, 193 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:59,920 the United States left info about the executive branch of torture is a telling example of how fast human progress can be stopped. 194 00:23:00,250 --> 00:23:14,050 In my view, democracy will not lose war against global terrorism unless it is sacrificed in the process its most precious and constitutional values. 195 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:20,860 This question is a powerful reminder of how fragile are the conquests in the field of 196 00:23:20,860 --> 00:23:28,660 human rights and how exposed is any country in a time of crisis to authoritarian relapses? 197 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:34,360 But hopefully one of the first acts of Barack Obama as president of the United 198 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:41,470 States will be to close down the bone in torture as it is a crime against humanity. 199 00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:45,970 Because intelligence is a historical fact has been said. 200 00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:50,710 See, the United States in recent years did not is unacceptable. 201 00:23:51,790 --> 00:23:57,999 This is not the fact that we are discussing about the legitimacy of partners. 202 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:05,170 It's is that the virus is unacceptable. And this had been done in one hand. 203 00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:11,980 The Minister of Justice wrote the paper defending the circumstances. 204 00:24:12,190 --> 00:24:17,650 It is possible to use torture and this has to be approved by the government. 205 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:22,420 So this is unacceptable. We'll have to go back in the hole. 206 00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:30,379 I sincerely hope that Obama will have the energy and the capacity, 207 00:24:30,380 --> 00:24:43,570 the energy to be able to take a courageous act and to close the bunker because it has a signal that this one here I knew here is beginning. 208 00:24:44,530 --> 00:24:53,980 I think that some symbolic moments have to be taken very that if you want to rebuild the basis for a better society. 209 00:24:55,150 --> 00:24:59,920 My last point has to do with the conflicting demands between peace and justice, 210 00:25:00,220 --> 00:25:05,410 truth and reconciliation into decisions for an authoritarian to democratic rule. 211 00:25:06,340 --> 00:25:07,870 You recently saw history. 212 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:16,180 We have some examples of the use and sudden collapse of authoritarian regimes, usually in the aftermath of failed military adventures. 213 00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:20,080 This has been the case of Portugal, Greece and Argentina. 214 00:25:20,650 --> 00:25:25,750 In most case, however, the transition to democracy was a long process, 215 00:25:26,050 --> 00:25:34,240 driven by manufacturers buying pressure from civil society and the international community with power fatigue and economic hardship. 216 00:25:34,750 --> 00:25:39,640 Oh, in both situations, the question of how to deal with basic this. 217 00:25:39,940 --> 00:25:43,810 Has been the attorney issue for newly restored democracies. 218 00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:50,770 Different countries have chosen a different path. So we had opted for the points of retribution. 219 00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:57,790 I mean, we may be forced to make concessions to safeguard the force there for fragile democracy. 220 00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:05,980 All of us have tried to negate the wounds of the past, were incapable to heal societies gradually. 221 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:13,060 The notion of truth as a precondition for peace and reconciliation has emerged as an alternative 222 00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:19,060 to either outright impunity or the punishment of the many guilty of human rights abuse. 223 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:26,500 Some measures of reparation for the victims is an indispensable component of the healing process. 224 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,740 This requires, at the very least, 225 00:26:29,860 --> 00:26:37,870 that the State take the lead in conducting a full investigation and sheds light on violations committed by its agents. 226 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,970 This is also the best way to prevent the repetition of these atrocities. 227 00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:46,960 I'm also avoiding the former head of state. 228 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:58,450 It's. It's extremely difficult because the head of state, even when the decision to do something or have immediate reaction, 229 00:26:58,780 --> 00:27:06,040 although I've been involved in it in the past with violations of human rights and 230 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:13,419 very often you negate the existence of documents or before anything like this, 231 00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:28,620 if you allow me in my my own experience once some of you remember was an entire province of the local federal police had been 232 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:40,570 in office and thought there's some documents about how one former regional leader was killed and with four photographs, 233 00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:44,310 one for one and so forth. And this man's wife, too. 234 00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:56,500 So I call it no, I suppose responsible not for that, but the human situational benefit. 235 00:27:56,500 --> 00:28:00,250 No. Michael Vincent, in which you had to respond to me. 236 00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:10,120 What? Lots of them and sincerely one of them is so that probably you are talking about people who have access to documents, 237 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:15,820 but they are no more within our archives. But probably from time to time some doctors do appear, 238 00:28:16,450 --> 00:28:23,680 but they are in the hands of those who have been involved with the effects of the war in official archives. 239 00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:30,730 So the human rights movement is asking for let's open the archives and all the archives are open but empty. 240 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:37,060 No documents, nothing. The same applies to the victims of our guerrilla war. 241 00:28:37,450 --> 00:28:45,430 What are the borders, Robert, that keep people so people knows that the state as such has little registers at all. 242 00:28:46,150 --> 00:28:53,290 So it's a very embarrassing situation. But even when a political decision has been made, we don't have the instruments, 243 00:28:53,590 --> 00:29:00,040 you know, to to us to see the whole situation, so on and so forth, anyhow. 244 00:29:00,890 --> 00:29:09,310 Something has to be done. In our case, it was in time at the site of the war was for the residents or so I think myself 245 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,380 put the desire above immediate and have been put in prison by the Minister. 246 00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:17,260 That said, I was performing not in my name. 247 00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:22,930 The name of it was in the state and I tried to make a kind of reconciliation. 248 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,330 So I said, I will do well. 249 00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:31,600 Proposals from the operation for victims. 250 00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:36,070 And I ask, what do. 251 00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:44,680 The wife of one of the guys had been killed by me, was a friend of mine and she was also my friend. 252 00:29:44,890 --> 00:29:51,850 They came to my office, she came to my office and the military chief of staff of general was there. 253 00:29:52,210 --> 00:30:06,490 And as I say, we both have been very emotional with the situation, but they speak and reproduce the photographic general and so on and so forth, 254 00:30:06,610 --> 00:30:10,420 and we start the process of reparation and this was going on and off. 255 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,970 It still continues. But anyhow, 256 00:30:13,270 --> 00:30:23,719 this is maybe not enough because those who have family victims want more and they want to know why the body that was these are this you know, 257 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:31,660 it was so difficult even when the the political power this president so means are willing to do to give 258 00:30:32,050 --> 00:30:39,320 more answer in other cases to see how attentive it is to more dramatic because the number of victims is. 259 00:30:39,540 --> 00:30:50,460 Contact by thousand 500, as in Brazil or in Chile, and genetically process too much or more difficult for the reconciliation is very difficult. 260 00:30:51,030 --> 00:30:58,620 In other situations, like in South Africa, the enormous set of symbolic action by Mandela and Tutu. 261 00:30:59,490 --> 00:31:05,940 Bishop Tutu, to create the instrument for reconciliation have worked to some extent any hope? 262 00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:14,340 I think it's important and necessary to create instruments to allow for a kind of reconciliation in order to, 263 00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:17,260 as I said, to prevent the repetition of the atrocities. 264 00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:25,200 And in any case, you cannot deny that the atrocities existed in the eyes of some responsible, even if they are not in jail. 265 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,380 If when we have, as we have observed, an evidence at all. 266 00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:35,250 You cannot deny the fact that they were there and they were responsible for this. 267 00:31:36,270 --> 00:31:39,180 The process of reconciliation is further intensive. 268 00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:49,260 When perpetrators or members of warring factions acknowledge in their deeds and ask for some kind of forgiveness from their victims, 269 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:54,720 does the power of the fold difficult? Say truth. 270 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:02,070 So set you free was put to the test and probably more accurate than ever. 271 00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:12,480 I think it's time to go. The common thread running through this inventory of challenges is that for each and every issue, 272 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,620 there is not an easy, simple or definitive answer to be found. 273 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:23,190 Argument and debate are the means to build a consensus about what is new and promising. 274 00:32:23,670 --> 00:32:29,730 It says again, is enlargement of the act, of participating in the process of deliberation. 275 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:38,220 The best of God for human rights is the strengthening of a global culture of participation and responsibility. 276 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:47,070 This belief was the foundation of Sergio Vieira de Mello life, an individual once asked whether, 277 00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:53,310 as a survivor of Auschwitz, he spoke for those who had died in the concentration camps. 278 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,890 His answer was Nobody who speaks for the dead. 279 00:32:59,610 --> 00:33:03,840 They speak, but they speak by themselves. The question is, 280 00:33:04,170 --> 00:33:14,370 are we capable of losing this spirit that was inspired by Sergio's ultimate sacrifice and that of 281 00:33:14,370 --> 00:33:19,820 the brave men and woman fighting in the attack against the United Nations compound in Pakistan. 282 00:33:20,370 --> 00:33:20,970 Thank you very much.