What I would like to welcome you all to our seminar today.
I think while we are waiting, too, for everybody who would like to join us to do so.
I will say a few words about our seminars on women's rights in the Middle East, which started in 2009.
For those of you who don't know these seminars and their idea was to actually find out more about what recent research is going on,
contemporary research in relation to women's rights in the Middle East,
as opposed to just repeating what we already know about women's rights in the least, because a lot of things have changed.
And as part of that, we also have included an immediate easterns in the diaspora or from the Muslim warning, widely.
On the other aspect, which we have also covered is a question of looking also at some historical context as well as contemporary.
Want to give it actually proper framework to what?
In the past has me some women who had probably been activists in the field of Muslim women's rights.
And so we are now assisting those and now we're in the 11th year of doing so.
And it is a particularly great pleasure for me to introduce our speaker today.
Benjamin de Gaulle was called currently a PHC candidate in sociology at the School of Advanced Studies in Social Sciences in Paris.
He's also a member of the Centre, Her Studies in Social Sciences and religion at the San Andreas, which is the summit last year.
Now there are no chefs scientific, so therefore studies in social sciences of religion,
modern courses and he's cutting it currently a member of Missal from says in Oxford,
Benjamin, who is also a member of the Jewish Muslim Research Network.
Benjamin's research is mainly situated in the Cintas, the intersection of social sciences.
Of religion, gender studies and queer studies.
And it is looking at their initiatives designed by Muslim communities themselves to promote gender equality within an Islamic framework.
And he is also.
I've got a particular interest in democracy and secularism and the way politics, the impact on lived experiences of Muslim minorities on the ground.
And here's studies it is of particular stand.
His presentation today is of particular interest to me, especially because this is an issue which has actually been very addressed, very little.
I don't know of very many similar studies of how you're looking at the context of
the mosque and a queer studies and and a comparison between France and the UK.
So the title of Benjamin's presentation is God Does Not Discriminate.
Inclusive Mosques, Politics in France and the United Kingdom.
Benjamin, please go ahead. You have got 45 minutes. All right.
Thank you very much, sir. Thanks for allowing me to be part of this.
And today I would just share my four point.
So, no, you should see my slides. I'll try to.
Yes. OK, perfect. So, yes.
Thank you, everybody, for free, attending's is seminar. Studies of I'm presenting today as part of my ongoing research on practises of inclusion
and care by and for queer Muslims groups in both France and the United Kingdom,
which is a study that started in 2000 and 18.
It relies on the Rafie data collected during moments of participant observation during social and religious events,
events organising inclusive musk and queer Muslim organisations.
And there is also a similar structure. Interviews with religious leaders and organisation members.
I am especially interested in feminist ethics of care as Furies by Joan Tronto and every night CMO Glenn BAEO Beyond the Secret, Our Approach to Care.
I researched health care can be performed in a religious framework in contemporary Muslim communities
in line with what the South African that's called Arjun classing as theorised as pastoral care.
And as Janet Juley argued, in light of the Islamic ethics of justice, they are political.
Solidarity's to be built between secular,
feminist and Muslim communities to emphasise the role of care as necessary to assist Annable and flourishing society.
So this is this would be my theoretical framework. Today, I want to focus on two inclusive mosques, one in France and one in the United Kingdom.
And how is the approach care by inclusive mosque?
I mean a mosque welcoming believers in Mink's congregations regardless of their gender, sexuality, ethnicity or even social status.
These spaces especially care for Muslim marginalised within the larger Muslim community.
There are a few more inclusive spaces in each country, in France and the United Kingdom.
But these are the two most popular spaces so far as these last few years.
Xao Bufferin by women and interesting Lizzies women, all aimed at responding to the needs expressed by the religious community.
So similarly to Turkish women is a women in most movements.
Not talked about during the last seminar sees women weakness and explains themselves inequalities
of access to religious spaces as they finds a woman's room of their mosque often dirty,
difficult to access the experience or know women who experience difficulty to engage in religious rituals and
to connect with the divine because of a lack of appropriate facilities and because a women's room are often.
That's the end of a set of stairs. Elderly women in dieser.
Both women have difficulties to access these spaces, especially.
So it's because of OSes difficulties that these spaces have been created in a first in the first place.
So this is a really important dimension of this mosque as they emerge from a sense of
responsibility shared by Muslim women to accommodate and care for marginalised Muslims,
for women, but also for other groups. And in that sense, these women have the same rationale as more conservative Muslim woman.
I am thinking of ethnographic studies conducted by John Julie in France and Germany,
or Sonja Contracter in the United Kingdom on Orthodox Muslim woman groups who were sceptical of feminism
and focussed preferred to focus on their role on the roles they could play for their community,
on their duties rather than their individual rights.
And in each case, for both feminist groups and more orthodox group of women, it's a sense of responsibility which always triggers that action.
So we're good to look at the pastoral care developed for queer Muslim woman especially.
Yes. I'm so sorry to interrupt you.
I meant to ask people like, please ask your questions as we go along so we can then address them after it's finished.
Sorry. Eventually. I have not mentioned. Please go ahead. Every.
So I guess I as I was saying, we're going to look at the festival.
Can't develop, especially for Kermesse, mostly just to be specific, as a lot of people may know here.
The word Craig is to be an insult against quicker people.
Press of death, sexually deviant in English, which has since been reappropriated by sexual minorities.
Globally, it is mainly used in English speaking context.
So in France, women would tend to use other words to define themselves, such as lesbian or transgender.
But in the UK is a word queer is quite popular amongst Muslim woman,
and I think especially because he does not refer to a particular gender or sexuality.
It enables women to define themselves outside of it or normative framework while remaining.
Specific about Sarah Birdie's, about their gender. About their sexuality.
And that's such I think it's resonates with an aesthetic value of modesty.
In this presentation, I will remain unspecific on purpose when it comes to the name of the participants.
That's the name of the organisations involved. Enza geographical location.
So as to protect the participants privacy. These two mosque are both inclusive.
But Zavitz slightly different setups. I'm going to develop that idea later on.
But first, I just want to give you a bit of background on the East story about this mosque.
So is he in the inclusive mosque in France, emerge from a small community locally, which has progressively been building up on social media?
For a Facebook page,
the two founders are to enter a sexual woman who used to go to another inclusive mosque which had been funded by a gay imam in Paris in 2010.
This first mosque has since been clubs and these women's and opened their own inclusive mosque.
In September 2010 19. So why comparing this to a mosque?
We need to keep in mind that it's a French mosque is actually a young mosque.
It's a very recent projects in the United Kingdom that women and more time to adapt their practises and to,
you know, get feedback from that congregation.
So it's in a mosque in London has been founded in 2012 by a group of crem Muslim women who were previously involved in the LGBT Muslim
organisation and which were also involved in academic research projects regarding the needs of queer Muslim women in the United Kingdom.
Findings that most resources online and in real life, where mainly aimed at men, at queer Muslim men, anxiety.
There was a need for more inclusive space for vulnerable Muslim woman.
They created a mosque based on the principle of radical in Christianity.
So a common pungency story of this mosque so far is that as a personal experience of career,
Muslims are always at the root of these initiatives because even in this case of France,
the experience of a gay imam informed and inspire a project out of the current mosque.
So the question I'm trying to answer today is, oh, is pastoral care being developed for Crume?
Whistling Woman in interest if mosque. And we're going to go through free different bonds is the first one is we're going to look at of different
understandings that this mosque of inclusive to which is very much informed by different political imagineering,
is an influenza kind of pastoral care which is being provided INSS spaces.
In a second part,
we're going to look more closely at the care practises within the mosque and they participate in constructing the subjectivity of queer Muslim woman.
And in the last hour, when I look at the obstacles says these women are facing a while,
creating and developing their mosque and very quickly their own vision for the future.
So is the United Kingdom. Is it intrusive? Musk embraces an Islamic feminism, which is heavily influenced by the work of I mean, why do it?
And defines inclusive as radical, inclusive.
I will not talk about surviving this sort of Islamic feminism,
which are being developed globally because it's not really is a goal of this presentation and to take too long.
What I am interested in in this presentation is, oh, a particular kind of Islamic feminism, which will be a feminist Islamic feminism, sorry,
promoted by any white dude and sisters in Islam,
manifests itself and is being implemented in a grassroots organisation in a local mosque in the United Kingdom.
So there has been an epistemological shift in the work of I mean, what do these last 20 years?
She previously understood women as part of the binary between men and women.
And we've an eight or normative framework where men and women at Complimentarity Complementary Qualities and Fraud's to the year 2000.
What would progressively started considering gender as more frid and gender as a category of analysis conceptually allowed her
to move away from complementarity of the sexes and compulsory heterosexuality to give room to what she calls sexual diversity.
It is visible in the literature she produces, but also in our discourse and in addition to its faults.
There is also the influence of the colonial studies, which are very present in the discourse of the mosque members.
The woman running the mosque characterised by a strong cultural and educational capital so highly educated PDG level most of the time and often
identify compulsory atter of sexuality as the produce of modern bio politics systematically imposed on Muslim society from colonisation.
So therefore, critics of colonisation and later on the majority often go hand-in-hand in the discourse of this mosque.
We can better understand the epistemological shift in the work of war,
do it by looking at a speech she gave ING's Inclusive Moleskins the UK in September 2017.
And this is how she introduced her speech. I quote, because I am personally located in this as a cis gender female,
I have not voted myself for every single word about whether or not I am equally intrusive in terms of the location from the LGBTQ community.
And that is also Konsta.
Contextually significant, I think, because working for what we used to call gender reform was primarily within the context of heteronormativity.
I think it's important for me to let you know that I might slip into a certain presumption of veteran immaturity,
because that is a way in which the gender movement was shaped, but it is not where it is finished.
So this can explain the rationale of the mosque of radical in meeting the responsibility to care for the community is extended to sexual minorities.
Amongst are ostracised groups was identities and specific position that ities are taken into account.
And you can see in this text on the right, which promotes an event of the mosque, I quote, All are welcome.
And we sometimes the voices of Muslims who are women, non binary, gender, queer,
black and disabled especially so populations which are on the margins and of who have difficulties to access religious spaces in the UK especially.
So re-educating creativity extends beyond gender and sexuality.
Passive participant can share experience of being a marginalised minority, Weaving's and Muslim community.
However, this shared experience does not mean there is no existing prejudices between the individuals in this mosque.
If we consider the experience of being who is on the left here,
being an actor or sexual sej under a man who has been occasionally meetings Prager's and giving sermons on Fridays in these settings, as I quote.
So I wasn't necessarily etsi increasing most because of his gender politics at the beginning, such as seemed like a nice addition for me.
What was more important was its non-sectarian nature. And that's because even though I grew up in a Middle Eastern country, I'm not from there.
And in fact, I belong to a religious minority which falls under one of the Shia schools of Islam.
And so in the Middle Eastern country, and this is something that I contraries speak to openly about Zehr,
is that my community is not allowed to practise freely because there are restrictions on Shia Muslims practising in the country.
And so because of that, like I always that is a cute sort of sense that there was this part of me that I wasn't sharing.
So even though I would lead prayer in university, for example, most of my friends didn't know that I was Shia.
And so that's not in fact. I also like so a lot of anti Shia sentiment being openly shared.
And so because of that, I couldn't, in a sense, come out as Shia easer.
So I think a similar vocabulary of aiding and not coming out is interesting in itself as it's triggered bee research for an inquisitive space.
When you move to the U.K., so you lived in the U.K. for four years.
And it's especially interesting to compare this to what ve a queer Muslim woman with a Sandy background
had to say about the presence of Shia Muslim in light of her own experience as part of a sexual minority.
And I quote, There are some forms that I have recently found out of Shiite ism, which for me is slightly concerning,
but I'm not trying to put too much focus on it, because if I do that, then I feel like of personal words,
if I'm trained to do it myself, is going down with the roots that I'm familiar with in terms of the judgement,
the, you know, having an opinion and then just forcing it on everyone else kind of thing.
So I'm trying to keep an open mind is what I'm trying to say, because what I want to take out of this experience is a good that comes out of it,
which is really just folding on creating connexion with people that may have similar views and that I hope and being vulnerable.
So the Muskies Air Force Base, with incredulity is not only postulated or photo, if it is performance performed despite prejudices,
sometimes Muslims with different practises get together and engage in alternative
practises in Shia or Sunni Sufi rituals to express Vivus way of being Muslim,
ways of practise, things that they wouldn't necessarily be exposed to in their local traditional mosque or at home,
especially share rituals, for that matter. So women's in because in Musk in the U.K. follow an ethics of justice,
seeming out to more conservative Islamic movement but affected by an epistemological shift.
As we've seen in terms of gender and sexual age politics as fear rise by Islamic feminist Qatar's beyond this,
an ethos of radical invisibility is being applied, which Allen West came from different backgrounds to joins a community.
Things are very different in France, actually. It is interesting mosque in France.
When asked about the inclusion and care of Muslim sexual minority L, which is who is an imam and one of the funder of the mosque, responded to me.
I quote, There are two things. First, that within the mosque there is no discrimination to be made on the basis of somebody's sexual orientation.
And then we also have a theological discourse that we hold on this topic.
And so and so, no, being Muslim in no more sexual is not a problem.
It isn't incompatible. It is in the Koran.
Doesn't it doesn't deal with this. So that's it. We also add these few logical positions that we affirm whenever necessary.
That's it. But then deep down, it's a bit like the motto of many men or a place of women.
Women should hold in Islam. We talk about it when it's necessary.
But in the mosque, we don't talk about that. It's we really try to talk about spirituality.
So it's pretty the same approach, actually, that we have with the matter of sexuality.
We don't want to fall into feminism as much as we don't want or falling to LGBT bhairavi indications.
It's really the same approach that we are on both topics.
And so these two imams in France do not wish to talk about politics in the mosque and especially not identity politics,
as this is a major difference with the increasing mosque in the U.K., which aims at, as we've seen, to centre marginalised individuals in its face.
And to better understand this. I think we need to consider that both imams in France are converts,
Muslim converts from a white Catholic background, and they are ready tend to talk about identity politics.
And I think it is useful to see how they pursue Magreb culture,
which will be a culture of most native Muslims in France when describing a previous experience in Tariq cards before opening the mosque.
L can imagine one of the funder mentions feeling uncomfortable.
She says that there was a quote, a mix of confusion between religion and culture, as is where Tariq has meaning from Maghreb.
And there was really a mix, whether it was controlling marked as McGreavy.
And it really made me uncomfortable because I converted to Islam because of the appeal of this religious tradition.
But not at all for for a form of culture in relation to a nose.
It was really like everybody in Jeddah back was Gousse and Minty for lunch and.
So Kay, which is Zahos, our cofounder, said, I quote, That is to say that we are we are from.
We are both converts. We are from a European culture Western, which makes mixed congregation fun for us.
It's almost self-evident. So here we can see that LNKD of Distance himself from MacRobert character and attributes some of their practises,
such as mixed prayers as related to their own European culture.
This is coherent with the findings of Oser ethnographic studies for Europe,
where a group of Muslim converts seek what they sometimes call a church or free Islam.
For example, Venice Sovereign Nation in the Netherlands on Michela Rogas Insulter in Spain
conducted ethnographic research with groups of Muslim converts and natives.
And they shows that converts tend to distance themselves from immigrants culture and
seek a practise of Islam in line with what they see as their own cultural values.
So we need to ask yourself what would be.
And Kate, cultural values. And I think in France, Republican universalism is a dominant political imaginary.
It is a legacy of the French, Lightman's and NYes that is the foundation of French citizenship.
And aside from the dominant political culture, from the dominant French good church, sorry,
any ethno religious particularism is seen as belonging to the private sphere while in the public sphere.
Only a unique and universal citizenship ought to be expressed.
And this is upheld by lay sitting French secularism, the separation between the state and religion,
which makes unlost impossible any political claim on religious grounds.
And so, as he sees the feary and in practise,
it's even more true for Islam compared to Christianity and especially capitalism, which would which enjoy more privileges,
I would say, compared to Islam,
which is still very much seen as a region of an outsider kind of religion basis by the state and by the political elite.
So this might explain why imams both L and K are reluctant to engage in identity politics,
which offers a vast contrary to our values of universalism and refuse to address political matters in a religious context.
That is not to say that Zafrin nationalist understanding of religiosity as they are both quite critical of the state discourse stigmatising women,
Muslim woman wearing a veil. But this criticism takes place in the framework of a broader political imaginary,
which has an impact on the way religious minority can express themselves.
So if we look at the work of the philosopher AbdelNaby DA, who is a strong inspiration for this mosque,
what he's saying regarding justice and Islam is similar to the work of Islamic feminists,
such as where to see Bandiero saying he has no doubt that equality between men and women can be achieved in an Islamic framework.
And it opposes rigid, fixed tradition to come back to genetics of justice against all professions.
But his rhetoric is also very much informed by Republican universalism, creating a on bigots and gender.
He calls for a secular, centralised political movement where progressive Muslims would oppose obscurantism thanks to French humanist values.
And its political imaginary has a strong impact on the way Islamic feminism develops in France.
It is not discussed in a religious base such as inclusive if mosque.
But he's only talked about in one political organisation for Muslim woman who does not collaborate with
the mosque and where solidarity between religious and secular organisation flourish in the UK context.
The mosque and feminist organisation remains separated and isolated in France.
Islamic feminism is just too political for inclusive mosque in France.
So within the mosque, this political dimension Narey manifest in a different understanding of inclusive incredulity from universalism,
where razzles and paying special attention to the most marginalised LNKD choose to ignore the question of ethnic,
gender and sexual identities altogether. This is not without consequence consequences on ZUWAY.
Pastoral care is felt off and conducted in the mosque.
So now I want to look at a care practises within this mosque and this mosque have two components.
When it comes to pastoral care, the first is that they focus on building and sharing knowledge,
which is relevant with the experience of their congregation. And they do so.
This is a civil point in a democratic setting, challenging traditional Iraqi education of all believers.
And this is done for translation. Translation from Arabic to English or Arabic to French.
An explanation regarding the historical context. During the Prophet's life and the time of the revelation.
So to quote K, one of the imam and co-founder in France, I quote, The idea is that in a mosque creeley, let's say ideal.
It would be for each believer to be able, after some training, to intern to produce a discourse on an excerpt of the Koran on the theme.
It is really as logic.
I would say almost Democratic actually said we want to move on to a light because I liked because in our eyes it is what Islam was about initially.
An M. An imam and co-founder in the U.K. says, I quote, dates people don't go to imams just to talk,
just to ask if they can do something to ask if it's allowed in the Koran, say look online and read for themselves.
The imams role is increasingly about pastoral care and counselling, and for many incomes are important because women are of the community.
I think trancing meme's or you mentally identify as queer is important to the democratisation of being an imam.
That's what it's all about. So, however, the different conception of increasingly team bring different practises of care.
Why does the mosque and friends focus on generic religious practises discussing
appropriate ways of fasting and praying in the ceremonies for everybody?
So imams at a mosque in the U.K. tends to focus on social issues and often address issues relevant to specific experience of minorities.
That's all. The UK is being based on empirical evidence of what Krimsky women need.
And I will therefore focus Norns of virus practises designed for queer Muslim woman and Luskin's UK.
Funders. I've conducted an ethnographic research from 2001 to 2005 and Benefit Qaid from
the continued involvement of Krimsky Woman from diverse backgrounds in the mosque.
Pastoral care relies on the dialectic between the religious knowledge of the
imams and the experiential knowledge of chromosome woman who attends mass.
So just to give you an example. This is what V is saying vs a member of the mosque.
And here she explains what change in our understanding of the scriptures and Hogue's.
This is relevant to our experience as a Krimsky woman. I quote.
I knew what I was doing was sinful from a Koranic point of view,
because the Quran suggests that homosexuality in Islam is based on the story of the Prophet Klute.
Right. So I knew it was sinful, but I wasn't going to justify my action in Chunge.
What's occurrence saying if that makes sense. So for me, I would rather see him sinful than say the Koran is wrong.
That was very important for me is to not alter was the Koran is saying the workshops have helped me try to make sense of some of that.
And as I'll turn some of my views that I had previously about what does the Arabic actually say,
literally not having Arabic as a language that I was familiar with, I I was in through prayers, et cetera.
I think those are those that have that knowledge about Arabic language is a workshop helps to interpret what the Koran is trying to get at,
if that makes sense. So I'm at that stage now where I'm kind of taking a step back and saying, well, actually, I didn't think about that.
I didn't think about the fact that's the story of prophet. It was not actually directly linked to lesbians, you know, or men having consensual sex.
You know, that sort of valuations of some of the language and the linguistic zat gun.
No, with it. I'm starting to appreciate, you know. So sharing's a few logical work of Islamic feminist,
but also just considering the semantic complexities of Arabic can be especially of help fulcrum
Muslim women who often feel guilt and shame over their personal aspirations and desires.
But this requires to take into consideration their personal struggle.
In the story of the prophet looked the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, punished by God for depraved depravity,
is the dominant understanding in the Muslim world is a condemnation of homosexuality.
As men engage in sexual acts with other men, however,
such as Scott Cogo have argued that his intent crosses were not consensual and understand this as a condemnation of rape.
And it's Zis interpretation that is referring to this quote.
So is a mosque in the U.K., Muslim women can express themselves during monthly feminist discussion group,
whereas I can read extract of the Koran and edits and analyse their relevance in light of their personal experience.
The Koran is often translated using gender neutral pronouns to refer to God.
God is engendered. He's not a patriot coal figure anymore.
And many women express relief at the idea that God did not have a specific gender which would make male domination a divine principle.
The idea of an engine to go is also query with some system tests which are shared in the mosque, especially in Nairobi,
fearing of universe, duplicity of the soul, all living creature sharing one soul regardless of gender.
So it must also occasionally asked workshops and Evans sexual health workshops, for example,
addressing the vulnerability of sexual minorities in terms of mental and physical
health and using the Koran to promote medical treatments and fight prejudice.
For example, prejudice against sexual disease that HIV positive people.
It can also be a space to open up, but expect Yancy's of abuse,
sexual abuse in a community where these topics are not discussed and subject women to feeling shame and guilt on their own.
Most of the time.
They are also LGBT plus family workshops present which aim at preserving family bonds by sharing literature on Islam and homosexuality.
So resources that mention, I mean, why do its work?
And Scott Cardon's work mainly and challenge the Dominion control narrative of coming out because in Western context,
coming out as clear as gay as lesbian is celebrated more and more.
And is that understood as a form of queer activism in itself?
And so it's they're trying to raise awareness that it is not mandatory.
Coming out is not mandatory and that in some context it can be dangerous and harmful.
So they're trying to put some distance with this kind of normalisation of coming out.
They also recognised during this workshop and value queer families and queer Solidarity's as a different kind of kinship.
So here we can draw on the work of Sabang Mahmud's analysis of the mosque movement in Egypt who discuss
discussed in best our fury of bloodily and speech fare from one sense as a condition of agency,
signifying interesting new thanks to troves of norms. So I would say that.
It isn't really between complying with or rebelling against one.
No, my teeth stricture because these Muskat Cosmopolis mosque custom operate environments
and they are a wide range of different normative structure at work here.
But as men would feel the body as a medium resource and a sign of yourself, a medium for which a pious self comes to be realised.
And Mahmud especially takes the example of modesty and shyness who are being performed
for wearing a veil and behaving in a shy way to then be internalised and constricting.
Pay itself a pious Muslim woman. I would argue that we can consider as a collective body of the congregation,
as a medium for which collective virtuousness comes to be realised through inclusive to.
Praying to someone of a different gender. Getting confused with your gesture because you're following the lead of a Shiite imam while being silly.
Our performances execs seek to accommodate the awesomeness rather than rejecting it.
One can train himself to accept an otherwise, you know, unusual presence.
Try new religious performances and minorities who usually cannot access Prager's spaces at all.
Get a chance to because to become pious subjects. So makes prayers on that in appropriate ways of worshipping anymore.
But to the contrary ways of worshipping in an inclusive manner that makes us space open to all Muslim.
What one of the most funder's in the U.K. calls, I quote, a true Islamic utopia.
So we can consider participation with these events and engagement and pastoral care as
technologies of the self promising woman constructs MSF as part of a career in social imaginary.
We're navigating that identity outside of it or unmatched meeting allows them to build solidarity with us so much in life.
Muslim individuals caring for the margin is seen as fit as full feeling sorry, a dirty of the duty of protection and strengthening of the goomar.
So loud jobs and wider Muslim community against all systems of oppression that queerness
is fully uncompressed within enlisted Muslim ness and from the core your own identity.
So, no, I just want to look at the obstacles that these women face.
And interestingly enough, both mosque in France and the U.K. face the same kind of obstacles.
So funding a mosque, creating a space and caring for others requires certain resources that can be hard to get.
And in line, we have an obstacles that many women face while caring for Ozawa's.
In modern society, the accumulation of duty's between a professional life,
the family life and a spiritual life makes it harder for them to find enough time to perform.
The tax task. Are supposed to perform. So in France and in K manage their mosque on their own.
And I quote hell here. It's complicated because now I'm starting to have too many things to do, in fact.
Yeah, I tend to say that I can several jobs, namely teacher P.G candidate Emam.
Yeah, it's pretty complicated to manage. And it's even an obstacle, actually.
Very much so. So the lack of time work is an obstacle to the development of the mosque, but also to their personal lives and asking explains here.
I quote, I know that now, if I wanted, I wouldn't be able to have children.
Clearly, I have no time left. So if I had children, I would need to remove something from my schedule.
So then there are solutions.
It could be for us to make the organisation grow beets so that other people could take responsibilities and discharges of certain tasks.
But it could be. And I don't think it could happen without it working part time only.
Is a mosque in the U.K., a small group of women manage the mosque, which allows them more time and more support.
However, while I was visiting the mosque, they sometimes had to interrupt their prayers to make sure the event was running smoothly during FDR.
The responsibility of preparing food, giving out information to the congregation,
cleaning the dishes, leading the prayers often fell on the same group of women.
So they are absolutely up to the task. But as a participant often says, I quote, I need more men to have my back.
And in that sense, this feminist mosque, US bases, which Sunter women, but where it's a reason,
clearly an increasing call for Muslim men, including Krimsky, two main men, to engage in solidarity with women in the.
Another obstacle is to the difficulty to find suitable spaces in big city centres,
a space which would be big enough for that growing congregation and accessible to disabled individuals.
Accessible spaces are rare and a bit more expensive.
And in France, for example, they often have to conduct a prayer in two separate stations because the space is not big enough for everybody.
If their ambition for the future is a common ambition as well, which would be to find a permanent stable bidding for some musk,
because at the minute they are each in your own musk to build lasting solidarities and partnership within one neighbourhood.
And I think there is also it would be also a way to see themselves as a mosque,
like always, a mosque, you know, a normal kind of mosque to to have a stable building.
And that's a nice aspiration for a lot of women actually in this movement right now.
So in conclusion, this two must be different, different understanding of increasingly due to the different positionally T of their funders and to the
different political imagineering that respond to this trigger different practises of pastoral care.
January in France and focussed on lived experiences of individuals that's emerging in the United Kingdom.
These practises of care are part of the constitution of queer Muslim woman's
subjectivity that Koronis allows them to get solidarity with their Muslim.
That's a margin and therefore an ideal of a true Islamic state took care.
This observation needs to be nuance, though, because, as I said earlier, Zimm mosque in the UK is seven years old.
That sends a mosque in France. Muslim Rumanians. France also faced a more offensive political context,
which in Paris and Virginia in speech performances and therefore SEC practises of care they need to be supported.
And this will be my references. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Benjamin.
I really enjoyed your talk enormously because it raises so many more general questions.
Actually, to me personally, this is completely new and fascinating and it just shows you the dynamics as of awful people.
Muslims outside the Middle East or any other Muslim countries are actually engaging with the current issues and the change of generations.
Different perspective. That's fascinating. And I wish you very good luck finishing your research and doing your APHC.
Thank you so much. And for those who are again, less familiar with our seminars or seminars or disturb more finished,
we usually have two seminars each term on weeks three and six of the OK,
so the academic term and it will be advertised and sent out to all of you on the mailing list.
And we hope to see some of you the following term and very soon in the flesh.
I hope you know, because we don't we can't go on forever like this.
But but it also has, as is upside in that it has brought people, for example, from South Africa to participate.
So very much. Maybe we can run them in parallel, both in the flesh and online.
But, Benjamin, thank you so much and wish you good luck.
Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody, for participating.