1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,530 What I'm going to be discussing here on the air is the concept of failed diplomacy, 2 00:00:04,530 --> 00:00:12,780 that you just have picked it up for further discussion on one of the books I wrote in 2006, 3 00:00:12,780 --> 00:00:20,600 looking at GEO's role in failed diplomacy or a working peacebuilding conflict in identies and all that. 4 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:30,120 But if you could also just be a short description in a chapter of this week, was that you published last year. 5 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:36,540 Does it display on the registration table starting off on East Africa? 6 00:00:36,540 --> 00:00:42,870 Just to give you an idea, be looking at those three countries. 7 00:00:42,870 --> 00:00:49,560 But taking on much more on the Kenyan gun that I'm done. 8 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,150 Sudan is the largest country now. 9 00:00:53,150 --> 00:01:02,010 I'm looking at the work that the NGOs have been doing in the last 20 years and the frustration of a lot of work being done on the grassroots, 10 00:01:02,010 --> 00:01:06,270 but with very little link in the middle and the top level as somewhere. 11 00:01:06,270 --> 00:01:10,510 A lot of our discussion this morning also added to that and the strategic peace 12 00:01:10,510 --> 00:01:15,280 building based court and to see how sustainable Congo's peace process processes be. 13 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:22,820 But then how do we create a dialogue between the grassroots and the top level? 14 00:01:22,820 --> 00:01:35,090 As you know, the NGO in the last maybe 15 years, I've been engaged to some extent in the work of peace building and especially after the Cold War, 15 00:01:35,090 --> 00:01:40,790 where there was much more of a push for the NGO is to do it not just relief work, 16 00:01:40,790 --> 00:01:44,370 but move on a little bit into development and something that is sustainable. 17 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:52,250 And then further, they have been pushed now to also get engaged in the peace building work and join the civil society in that process. 18 00:01:52,250 --> 00:01:56,590 And they've been to schools around this particular issue. 19 00:01:56,590 --> 00:02:04,560 The many used to say, you know, End-Use, you just keep to what are supposed to do, development, relief, and that's it. 20 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,430 They shouldn't be engaged in peace building. They maximalists to say no. 21 00:02:07,430 --> 00:02:22,040 They should also be engaged in processes that will sustain the peace processes that are in place in large humanitarian situations. 22 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:27,800 Big agencies like U.N. ended up being kind of a surrogate state or a state within a state granting 23 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:39,230 those refugee camps within certain parameters of what they define as humanitarian standards. 24 00:02:39,230 --> 00:02:46,070 And this has led to a lot of friction with the local government that the hosting governments would like to see also. 25 00:02:46,070 --> 00:02:49,790 There've been processes where the governments that have not increased the democratic 26 00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:55,730 space have been marginalised and angels had them to receive a lot of aid, 27 00:02:55,730 --> 00:03:00,140 financial aid that would normally have gone directly through the governments dangers. 28 00:03:00,140 --> 00:03:03,890 In that sense, I've become very important. 29 00:03:03,890 --> 00:03:11,540 And so it is important that we need to trying to link within the field diplomacy, which I'll explain later on what I mean by that, 30 00:03:11,540 --> 00:03:20,870 the links with economic, cultural, political and religious and see how this can at the same time contribute to the peace process. 31 00:03:20,870 --> 00:03:29,690 In Moscow cases, we limit ourselves to the political processes of peacebuilding and ignore the other component that are equally relevant today. 32 00:03:29,690 --> 00:03:33,950 This morning we did listen to the economic aspects of peacebuilding as well. 33 00:03:33,950 --> 00:03:40,070 But we are not dialoguing so much between these four compliments. 34 00:03:40,070 --> 00:03:40,490 Generally, 35 00:03:40,490 --> 00:03:49,410 the NGO Peace Building has particular indicators that the kind of a framework they work within and it's so much in the lines of liberal peace, 36 00:03:49,410 --> 00:03:58,640 an increase of democratic space, establishment of just institutions of governance, equitable distribution and peaceful coexistence. 37 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:11,320 But in most cases, it's actually number one and two, democracy and participation to a large extent. 38 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:18,750 And as you would agree, all these issues are very, very complex and it's the complexities. 39 00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:22,290 I'll agree with the drug policy is that we shouldn't be overwhelmed by the 40 00:04:22,290 --> 00:04:27,000 complexities of the of the conflict and the sustained nature of this conflict. 41 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:33,900 But it is to find a certain humour and creativity of engaging in processes that will contribute, 42 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:42,270 even if it is only to a minimal process, to a whole process of change. 43 00:04:42,270 --> 00:04:49,570 And as you can see here, you can see that the role of the diaspora, for example, 44 00:04:49,570 --> 00:05:04,890 normally injecting a lot of money and influence the whole peace process or the whole trafficking of drugs and arms in any kind of peace process. 45 00:05:04,890 --> 00:05:09,900 We need to take all this into account, the ideologies that then get invented into this process. 46 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:16,110 And for a number of African countries, the ideology tend to be formed around identity. 47 00:05:16,110 --> 00:05:22,710 And most of that is ethnic identity. And the process of nation building. 48 00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:32,550 So let's come to feel diplomacy as a concept which some of our colleagues in Belgium came up with this process. 49 00:05:32,550 --> 00:05:38,520 And we did try to apply it in the field, especially in the humanitarian setting. 50 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,820 First of all, called for kind of a multi-dimensional approach. 51 00:05:41,820 --> 00:05:52,410 Wherever you were, you can contribute something to that process, trying to link the processes within the grassroots into the decision makers level. 52 00:05:52,410 --> 00:05:58,260 And I'll give a couple of examples that we'll just give you an idea of how this has worked so far. 53 00:05:58,260 --> 00:06:09,360 It does encourage a lot of work on the grassroots because that is what informs the linkages that we then take up to the top level. 54 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:15,530 So even though you to it as a field diplomacy, meaning on the track three of the grassroots level, 55 00:06:15,530 --> 00:06:22,290 it is diplomacy amongst many other diplomacies in the sense that it engages the processes of dialogue as well. 56 00:06:22,290 --> 00:06:27,000 The forerunners look at the Louvain University, 57 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,730 but also we've had other peacebuilders within the East African region that have 58 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:40,830 tried to link up in this process to see whether it is really workable in a sense. 59 00:06:40,830 --> 00:06:47,470 To borrow again from my old Dreux triangle is that there's a lot of work that goes on on the grassroots. 60 00:06:47,470 --> 00:06:53,800 Just talking to a colleague from South Africa told me that prior to. 61 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,490 The GRC in South Africa and the whole new political process, 62 00:06:57,490 --> 00:07:05,510 there's a lot of work that was going on on the grassroots in trying to bridge the divided societies amongst the black Africans. 63 00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:10,690 And then the white South Africans and other class divisions that emerged. 64 00:07:10,690 --> 00:07:14,980 But this one was thrown out after independence or after the new government came into place. 65 00:07:14,980 --> 00:07:18,520 And the Tiaro see, in a sense, reconciled the nation. 66 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:25,170 And a lot of work that had been done in the very sophisticated network within the country had been ignored. 67 00:07:25,170 --> 00:07:32,110 And I think even in this morning's session, we need agree that there's very little coordination between the grassroots. 68 00:07:32,110 --> 00:07:35,260 The middle level and the decision makers level. 69 00:07:35,260 --> 00:07:43,840 And a lot of work seem to be between track one and track play and track two here, but very little link into the track at one level. 70 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,750 And so they feel diplomacy is we can actually try to create dialogue processes to make these links, 71 00:07:49,750 --> 00:08:01,390 whether it's just at the beginning of the emergence of conflict itself or at the very peak of this collision or in the post-conflict reconstruction. 72 00:08:01,390 --> 00:08:10,090 These are actually processes that we can engage in. Since I'm talking on South on East Africa, it'd be good to just see where we are. 73 00:08:10,090 --> 00:08:12,340 A number of African nations are actually in transition. 74 00:08:12,340 --> 00:08:18,610 If you're looking at democracy as a model that could work and it's not working quite a number of countries. 75 00:08:18,610 --> 00:08:25,570 We've moved on from populist nationalist presidents in the 60s who have been pushed into 76 00:08:25,570 --> 00:08:32,680 holding elections and hence putting up democratic governments or like in the case of Zimbabwe, 77 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:39,820 a liberal live liberation at least sees himself as they possibly supposed to be leading the country. 78 00:08:39,820 --> 00:08:47,290 And how ungrateful can you be of not acknowledging me as the possibly liberated you and brought independence for this country? 79 00:08:47,290 --> 00:08:54,700 And it's very hard to get that dialogue out of these presidents who've had military stuff like in Nigeria 80 00:08:54,700 --> 00:09:01,150 that have eventually transformed themselves into some pseudo democracies and others are just struggling, 81 00:09:01,150 --> 00:09:12,420 stagnant democracies. Now, quite a number of these challenges that we are facing right now continue to demonstrate that there has to be a 82 00:09:12,420 --> 00:09:22,780 cross-sector dialogue processes that will help these governments to have kind of a more sustainable peace process. 83 00:09:22,780 --> 00:09:27,640 And it's a process that's not just linked to ending violence, 84 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:35,140 because we've only about 16 to 17 countries out of 53 in Africa that are either 85 00:09:35,140 --> 00:09:39,130 involved in some form of conflict or the other or emerging out of conflict. 86 00:09:39,130 --> 00:09:46,540 In fact, the countries that are now in conflict within Africa are very few, but quite a number of possible perfect situation. 87 00:09:46,540 --> 00:09:55,570 And those are protracted post-conflict situations, which could again erupt at any time in Sudan. 88 00:09:55,570 --> 00:10:03,720 Just to give you an idea, 22 years of war. We had in 2005 comprehensive peace agreement. 89 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,970 They call it comprehensive because anytime it's meant to be in several stages of incorporation. 90 00:10:08,970 --> 00:10:19,050 And in 2011, we are supposed to decide whether they'll separate with the South, that they're not separated, that they're not. 91 00:10:19,050 --> 00:10:26,590 And just to show you here, besides that, that food war is still a big headache and that will take a very long time. 92 00:10:26,590 --> 00:10:36,220 Resettlement of the refugees and the reason why the 2011 could be bloody is that if you look at this map of Sudan, 93 00:10:36,220 --> 00:10:42,910 what you're seeing there is five, four, five, B, four B, those are that's all of the south southern part of Sudan. 94 00:10:42,910 --> 00:10:49,120 And that's this blocks where we have largely sources of oil. 95 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:57,490 There's literally nothing there. The north is mostly most mostly Muslim, and that's where the capital is. 96 00:10:57,490 --> 00:11:04,150 And then you you have the south, which has enormous resources, a void. 97 00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:11,930 But the government executed in such a way that all this oil that is coming from the south has to be refined in the north. 98 00:11:11,930 --> 00:11:18,370 So all the refining, everything, they're not it's it's obvious that the north is going to say we want to secede from the not I mean, 99 00:11:18,370 --> 00:11:24,550 they still say we want to secede from there, not because you have all the riches and then not and say there's no way that you're going to do that. 100 00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:28,480 And the North has a bigger military power. 101 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:38,680 They even have two big, large factories that produce large ammunitions just to sustain the war in northern Uganda. 102 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:48,220 That conflict has been there again for 21 years, mostly involving child soldiers and claiming the kind of secession gained from there, 103 00:11:48,220 --> 00:11:53,230 not because of the marginalisation that they've experienced for many years. So it's a process again. 104 00:11:53,230 --> 00:11:56,240 We take so many years to really get over it. 105 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:05,110 As you know, the dialogue between the role of ICC and the local peace building processes is the whole dialogue that we need to be engaging in. 106 00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:10,610 And the previous session that I was in, this was also discussed at length on the transition of justice, 107 00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:20,330 components of it and how we need to create a new narrative that not only that's not only based on legal and political processes, 108 00:12:20,330 --> 00:12:28,390 but also takes into account alternatives to these processes transcending what we consider to be the norm. 109 00:12:28,390 --> 00:12:36,020 And sometimes if we just want to transcend those processes, they want to put in that creative traditional process, for example, 110 00:12:36,020 --> 00:12:46,790 that may overlook the structure of justice, but may much more emphasise the coexistence and a kind of a more sustainable peace process. 111 00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:57,080 And there are pros and cons to this. And to what extent this can be sustainable and what lesson are we passing on to the whole culture of impunity. 112 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,200 But then we need to be engaged in such downloads as well. 113 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:07,730 If we look at Kenya, also within the East Africa, the post-election crisis did demonstrate to us that you can harvest it. 114 00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:13,670 But if you don't engage in a process of nation building, a nation of 42 ethnic groups, 115 00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:19,520 which is not even large compared to countries like Congo, which of the 300 activity, 116 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,080 two ethnic groups, 117 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:31,760 and how do all these communities feel that they are part and parcel of of one state or one country that they consider to be their own? 118 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,140 And so for Kenya, what are the post elections demonstrated? 119 00:13:36,140 --> 00:13:43,310 Is that quite a number of issues that were never addressed during the colonial period of the land reform issues than people had been 120 00:13:43,310 --> 00:13:53,000 displaced during that time and the post-colonial with governance system that wasn't accountable to the people and regional marginalisation, 121 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,730 which is very, very systematic. 122 00:13:55,730 --> 00:14:04,690 Whereas the Constitution, that independence and say that, you know, the national resources will be distributed equitably throughout the region. 123 00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:06,560 They did change that section of the Constitution. 124 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:13,880 To read that on the regions that are have great economic potential will be considered for distribution of resources, 125 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:20,250 which is eventually then means the cronies of the president and the friends. 126 00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:31,130 Most in GOP building this database to be engaged in this myself, mostly in Sudan, northern Uganda and also in in Kenya. 127 00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:36,660 The second ideal ideals that we're all working with sometimes at the end of the workshop, 128 00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:44,530 you ask yourself, but what have I been doing here for two weeks? Does the whole workshop culture pay us to pay? 129 00:14:44,530 --> 00:14:54,210 D.M. Then we will join you if you're paying less. We'll go to the U.N. that pays better and have better food for the kind of washtubs that they have. 130 00:14:54,210 --> 00:14:58,890 And in a sense, really damaging even the local processes. 131 00:14:58,890 --> 00:15:05,430 If you say local chief, I remember being in southern Sudan and this we're meeting the elders to talk to 132 00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:09,810 them about this whole peace process and what we need to do with the schools. 133 00:15:09,810 --> 00:15:16,500 And he says by my brother, if I don't have peace in my stomach, I kind of want peace in my mind. 134 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:20,430 If I call for any meeting with the local people here. 135 00:15:20,430 --> 00:15:24,440 They loonie's ask me, will you provide lunch? You provide us with tea. 136 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:30,510 That's what the angels are doing. And this meeting that would normally have been called for within the communities 137 00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:38,380 had already been undermined by the kind of peace processes that we are engaged in. 138 00:15:38,380 --> 00:15:45,720 And there's a kind of push me to really raise questions on the methodology that we are using within that particular process. 139 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:53,730 And yet I think it did engage into a lot of grassroots dialogue and peace processes that eventually informed 140 00:15:53,730 --> 00:16:06,450 the second level of the truck to peace building at the grassroots level within the field diplomacy. 141 00:16:06,450 --> 00:16:12,350 We emphasise much more the accompaniment. A certain presence with the people makes a big difference. 142 00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:23,280 Empowerment in a sense that this conflict sometimes and dialogue processes a new language that many local people don't seem to to understand. 143 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:29,880 And we need to engage them in those processes and those issues of dialogue that are very, very important. 144 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,060 In the previous session that I was in, the transitional justice, again, 145 00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:39,150 just to pick up an example is how when the ICC was introduced, the whole discourse changed. 146 00:16:39,150 --> 00:16:47,640 The dialogue was as though everyone knew what ICC was and the details of of what ICC supposed to be doing. 147 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:55,370 And we see this as the role of the diaspora, the intellectuals that were brought in to engage in this process. 148 00:16:55,370 --> 00:17:04,610 Advocacy and engagement of civil society as part of this process in the middle level and then the decision makers level to just see 149 00:17:04,610 --> 00:17:11,450 to what extent can we influence the structures by informing the policies that are responsible for this situation on the ground. 150 00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:22,510 And I think at influencing the policies that decision makers level, it is one good value that even the emissions can contribute to. 151 00:17:22,510 --> 00:17:26,960 And it's always amazing how even engaging with the decision makers, 152 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:33,890 sometimes the level of ignorance on just the implications of some of the decisions that are made. 153 00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:37,220 And they don't really realise what the impact on the ground. 154 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:43,930 But I think if we begin to dialogue with them into that process, it could lead to some Kenya. 155 00:17:43,930 --> 00:17:52,510 Just to give you again, briefly some examples, as they pop up on some of the work that has been done on the grassroots peace building. 156 00:17:52,510 --> 00:18:01,730 They are truly religious leaders. Large network in northern Uganda that has been engaged with doing grassroots peace building, 157 00:18:01,730 --> 00:18:12,090 but have also been invited in a number of peace processes or peace talks between the organic government and the Lord's Resistance Army, 158 00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:20,160 the Catholic Relief Services in Catholic Peacebuilding Network that Nostradamus had been has been involved in. 159 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:26,080 Did a lot of grassroots work in trying to look at what some of the best peace building practises and what can we learn. 160 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:31,880 And took three cases of the Great Lakes in Burundi, Mindanao, 161 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:41,490 in the Philippines and Colombia, and and try to see how all this work that is being done. 162 00:18:41,490 --> 00:18:43,880 What what can we learn from this process? And for me, 163 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:51,830 what I can say that I learnt from that process is that the work that is being done on the grassroots needs 164 00:18:51,830 --> 00:19:00,200 to be articulated very well in a language that can then bridge us into the middle level and the top level, 165 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:07,070 the decision makers. I think that's really crucial. And the good thing is that even the academicians were involved in this process so 166 00:19:07,070 --> 00:19:12,380 that they learn from the grassroots and then articulate that in a different language 167 00:19:12,380 --> 00:19:18,290 that helps to kind of work as a bridge of all the good work that is being done on the 168 00:19:18,290 --> 00:19:23,720 ground and eventually come up with positive policies that can inform the process. 169 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:29,700 I think that to me was a big contribution that ought to continue as a process. 170 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:34,280 Another one I was engaged in this one directly when I used to work with Jesuit 171 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:40,220 Refugee Service and Jesuit Service works in about 60 countries in the world. 172 00:19:40,220 --> 00:19:45,860 And the model that we adopted was I was working with refugees from Rwanda, but only just after the genocide. 173 00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:51,180 And we we couldn't speak out on some of the abuses that were going on in the refugee camps, 174 00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:56,540 either by the government or by the network of criminal networks within the refugee 175 00:19:56,540 --> 00:20:05,330 camps to able to document and report some of the cases to Human Rights Watch, 176 00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:12,170 to Amnesty International. And we'll invite them to come and carry out their own investigation, then publicise and, you know, 177 00:20:12,170 --> 00:20:19,910 name and shame the government or then engage in the whole process of trying to change those kind of situations. 178 00:20:19,910 --> 00:20:24,860 And one simple success also that we had was we. 179 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:30,530 But the U.N. was cutting down a lot on its budget, as you know, sometimes in the mid 90s. 180 00:20:30,530 --> 00:20:37,910 And that meant that the World Food Programme also had to cut down into its own budget. 181 00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:44,140 And the consequence of that was that the food distribution in the camps were beginning to affect the health, especially of the children. 182 00:20:44,140 --> 00:20:50,630 We are having high mortality rates and we had to confront the World Food Programme, as you know. 183 00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:58,080 This situation needs to be addressed and we don't even have nothing out someplace in the dispensaries. 184 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,630 And they say, well, we have our budget has been cut down and there's no way that, you know, 185 00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:07,060 we just have to live within the limits and say, what are your main sponsors, the European Union. 186 00:21:07,060 --> 00:21:14,480 So we linked up with our colleagues in Brussels to lobby the European Union parliament and see whether that situation could be changed. 187 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:20,750 And it meant, you know, back and forth diplomacy between our colleagues in Brussels. 188 00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:24,830 And eventually that was revised and the situation was restored. 189 00:21:24,830 --> 00:21:30,400 And the other project that we are now working on following this model of diplomacy is trying to monitor 190 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:40,310 the mining contracting in Congo and also the oil distribution process in Chad and those mining contracts. 191 00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:45,770 First is that to the group in Kinshasa to lobby the government to revise those contacts and thank. 192 00:21:45,770 --> 00:21:50,390 Now, 42 contacts were stopped and revised last year. 193 00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:54,370 But at the same time, with another team in in Brussels trying to lobby the. 194 00:21:54,370 --> 00:22:00,100 The parliament, so that if there are fair contracts, I'm better working conditions, 195 00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:03,160 especially in eastern Congo where the war had been going on for a long time, 196 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:10,600 and some of these mining companies that directly or indirectly involved in that process. 197 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:24,070 Yes. Thank you. The other one is some of the NGO in Sudan have been reporting human rights abuses and trying to link this up with the EU, 198 00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:37,630 which is the African Union office in Addis or the other on a more local level within Kenya is where the religious leaders started the whole new 199 00:22:37,630 --> 00:22:45,400 political process and say that we are not going to go with the government pushing us to have a new constitution only discussed within the group, 200 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,560 within the parliament. We want the people to be involved in a constitution making process. 201 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:56,860 And the religious leaders started a parallel process that was so much threatening to the government that 202 00:22:56,860 --> 00:23:03,040 the government had to dissolve its own constitutional reform process and join with religious leaders. 203 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,960 So that was one good way of just pushing the government towards that. 204 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:17,380 And so just to end the subsid here, we need really a credible presence in the grassroots in order to to push for change. 205 00:23:17,380 --> 00:23:25,480 But to a great extent, also, we need to be a bit intrusive at the decision makers level and see how we can, 206 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,930 you know, force ourselves into the dialogue and into the process. 207 00:23:29,930 --> 00:23:36,280 And now with the credit crunch, what impact will this have on aid that's been given to all these countries? 208 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:42,210 What we impact will it have on post-conflict reconstruction and the U.N. troops and all that? 209 00:23:42,210 --> 00:23:45,640 And so the bridging component of this, I think, is crucial. 210 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:53,620 And it's really important for us that we are, Bridgers, of these processes and that's why we are engaging ourselves into this. 211 00:23:53,620 --> 00:23:56,200 What you're trying to establish is kind of the social justice. 212 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:02,620 The sticks seem to account, the various levels of interaction that are important for all of us. 213 00:24:02,620 --> 00:24:06,870 Just a quick critique of that process. 214 00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:21,260 And is that also we tend to rely a bit too much on the liberal peace approach and emphasise on democratisation, marketisation and liberal economies. 215 00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:28,210 But I think we need to engage into an alternative policy and not so much rely on the Liberal Party support. 216 00:24:28,210 --> 00:24:33,907 Thank you very much.