1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:08,430 I want to focus on the relevance of COVID 19 for our thinking about multilevel peace building and reconciliation, 2 00:00:08,430 --> 00:00:15,990 because COVID really has challenged peace building efforts across the globe, it's exacerbated the drivers of conflict in many places. 3 00:00:15,990 --> 00:00:24,120 It's disrupted peace endeavours in many locations. And so I think we need to think through the implications of COVID specifically, 4 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:33,840 but also the implications of all encompassing shocks, society wide shocks for our understanding of peacebuilding. 5 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:39,120 And shocks, of course, can come in many forms, and some shocks are more shocking than others. 6 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,640 I'm going to talk today, particularly about pandemics, 7 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:48,180 but this is hopefully an entry point into discussions about the relevance of environmental crisis, 8 00:00:48,180 --> 00:00:54,150 economic collapse, political upheaval such as we've seen around Brexit in Northern Ireland. 9 00:00:54,150 --> 00:00:57,780 As Brandon talked about today or the peace referendum in Colombia. 10 00:00:57,780 --> 00:01:01,260 As Andre talked about, the shocks come in lots and lots of different forms, 11 00:01:01,260 --> 00:01:05,610 and I think we need to think through the implications of this for for peace efforts. 12 00:01:05,610 --> 00:01:14,640 Now I'm going to focus, particularly on Rwanda today, but I'm hoping that some key features of the Rwandan case illuminate much bigger issues that I 13 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,560 hope have some relevance for other contexts I've been researching in Rwanda nearly every year. 14 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:27,060 For the last 20 years, I've been conducting longitudinal research in the same 12 communities since 2003. 15 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:34,140 And this includes doing fieldwork in Rwanda during COVID last year as part of a book that I'm working on at the moment. 16 00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:38,010 So I'm going to draw very heavily on that recent period of fieldwork. 17 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:47,160 And I think that the Rwandan government is right when it says that COVID is Rwanda's biggest challenge since the genocide against the Tutsi in 1994. 18 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,460 This is a country that, as many will know, has gone through, I think, 19 00:01:50,460 --> 00:01:55,620 a pretty remarkable transformation in that period and yet I think really has rocked the 20 00:01:55,620 --> 00:02:01,130 society to its foundations in a way that all ways that I'll talk about in just a moment. 21 00:02:01,130 --> 00:02:05,000 I'm going to very briefly focus on four issues in this presentation, and Gwen, I know, 22 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,950 is a justifiably very strict chair, so she's going to keep me to 20 minutes on this. 23 00:02:09,950 --> 00:02:19,760 I firstly want to say something about how I think based on my research, every day, Rwandans interpret the concept of reconciliation. 24 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:26,420 Secondly, I want to look at how Rwanda has pursued reconciliation with, I would argue, considerable success. 25 00:02:26,420 --> 00:02:29,870 Thirdly, I'll look at how COVID has challenged this. 26 00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:35,630 And then fourthly, I want to point to some broader lessons from this experience for context around the world. 27 00:02:35,630 --> 00:02:39,310 So full parts to this presentation. 28 00:02:39,310 --> 00:02:48,640 Let let me begin by just briefly discussing how I think my respondents in Rwanda since 2003 have talked about reconciliation. 29 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:52,300 I think one of the things we have to recognise right at the outset is that 30 00:02:52,300 --> 00:02:56,140 Rwanda is quite remarkable in the sense that I'm like all of its neighbours. 31 00:02:56,140 --> 00:03:02,650 It has not experienced mass violence on its territory since the genocide in 1994. 32 00:03:02,650 --> 00:03:05,080 That might seem like a very simple thing to point out, 33 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:11,230 but it's remarkable how often gets overlooked in the story of Rwanda's trajectory since the Genocide. 34 00:03:11,230 --> 00:03:16,570 And I think it's particularly remarkable when you put it in the context of hundreds of thousands of 35 00:03:16,570 --> 00:03:23,530 convicted genocide perpetrators now living side by side with genocide survivors on densely crowded hills. 36 00:03:23,530 --> 00:03:28,300 Because that's the socioeconomic, that's the demographic reality of Rwanda today. 37 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:33,040 Now, of course, Rwanda has been embroiled in conflict elsewhere in the region, 38 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,670 and it's undoubtedly been a generator of conflict outside of its borders. 39 00:03:36,670 --> 00:03:42,220 But I think it's important to begin with the reality of what has happened inside the country since '94. 40 00:03:42,220 --> 00:03:53,200 One of the very strong refrains coming through my research since 2003 across the ethnic divide with actors at all levels of Rwandan society 41 00:03:53,200 --> 00:04:00,670 and follow up interviews in the same communities over many years is a very strong desire for something much more than peaceful coexistence. 42 00:04:00,670 --> 00:04:05,770 I was particularly struck by Brandon's comments about some scepticism about 43 00:04:05,770 --> 00:04:11,260 peaceful coexistence as the ultimate endpoint in a place like Northern Ireland. 44 00:04:11,260 --> 00:04:16,450 The concept of peaceful existence is treated with enormous suspicion in Rwanda, 45 00:04:16,450 --> 00:04:24,010 mainly because between 1973 and 1994, many people would characterise that period as one of peaceful coexistence. 46 00:04:24,010 --> 00:04:29,290 But of course, it was a period in which serious divisions and tensions in Rwandan society were left, 47 00:04:29,290 --> 00:04:37,000 addressed and laid the seeds for the genocide in 1994, so that there's a real suspicion about peaceful coexistence. 48 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,940 Now this, I think, is important. 49 00:04:39,940 --> 00:04:49,270 We see that reconciliation has real purchase in the Rwandan to write in a second, I'll talk about the specific components of that, 50 00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:56,830 but I want to situate this debate about this peaceful coexistence and reconciliation in the literature at the moment, 51 00:04:56,830 --> 00:05:01,900 because many of you will be familiar. And Andre and I have been talking about this for a very long time. 52 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:08,830 There's a very strong literature on what is now known as agonistic peacebuilding or agonistic reconciliation, 53 00:05:08,830 --> 00:05:16,060 which basically says that the best fits post-conflict societies can hope for is to create spaces for non-violent dialogue, 54 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:21,610 and that most calls for reconciliation involve openly romantic, 55 00:05:21,610 --> 00:05:28,180 overly optimistic attempts to fundamentally resolve past conflicts and past identities. 56 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:33,130 And so for that reason, there's this emphasis on basically people continuing the conflicts of the past, 57 00:05:33,130 --> 00:05:40,000 but in a non-violent fashion and a very heavy emphasis on dialogue. Now, to simplify things in the Rwandan context, 58 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,370 most of my respondents would dismiss that argument out of hand and would say, that's not enough for us. 59 00:05:45,370 --> 00:05:47,530 We need to aim for something more than that. 60 00:05:47,530 --> 00:05:55,420 We do need to rebuild and reconceive relationships at all levels of society and in completely different ways. 61 00:05:55,420 --> 00:06:02,440 And also, talk is not enough. The agonistic emphasis on dialogue alone is insufficient. 62 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:09,820 One of the things that runs through my research in Rwanda is a very strong emphasis that reconciliation involves action. 63 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:14,650 It involves cooperation. It involves engagement. 64 00:06:14,650 --> 00:06:19,360 So we've got the agonistic literature, which I would argue we we should be sceptical of. 65 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,010 I think it's it's insufficiently robust. I think it's insufficiently optimistic. 66 00:06:24,010 --> 00:06:30,970 It narrows the parameters of what certain societies may be able to achieve or belief is important. 67 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:37,210 More broadly, I would say in the literature or much of the literature, reconciliation is becoming a bit of a dirty word. 68 00:06:37,210 --> 00:06:43,750 Some of you may have even seen recently a special issue in the Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute, 69 00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:48,250 with a piece by Richard Wilson on the theme of Reconciliation. 70 00:06:48,250 --> 00:06:53,740 The idea that that conflicts are often so intractable that reconciliation is simply fanciful. 71 00:06:53,740 --> 00:07:02,870 And so I think the Rwandan experience, at least my respondents, I think, would challenge that kind of view as well. 72 00:07:02,870 --> 00:07:09,830 To summarise the view of reconciliation that I think comes out of at least my Rwandan research is that this is not a romantic concept at all. 73 00:07:09,830 --> 00:07:15,350 It's incredibly practical and I often ask my respondents What would reconciliation look like? 74 00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:21,110 What are we looking for at different levels of society? And I emphasise very practical things. 75 00:07:21,110 --> 00:07:30,290 We eat and drink together. We work together on each other's farms, very heavy emphasis on on cooperative agricultural activities. 76 00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:34,010 We attend each other's weddings and funerals. We help each other during illness. 77 00:07:34,010 --> 00:07:38,720 Now come back to that because that's particularly salient in the current context, 78 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:44,340 and we help each other during other crises that befall members of our community. 79 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:47,810 So these are not romantic. These are not abstract things. 80 00:07:47,810 --> 00:07:54,920 These are very concrete day to day activities that many of my respondents believe signifies that reconciliation is starting to take place, 81 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,760 and it's something practically that that should be aimed for. 82 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:06,970 And in much of my work, I've argued that I think actually Rwanda has made substantial strides in achieving this kind of reconciliation. 83 00:08:06,970 --> 00:08:14,620 So then secondly, how is one to going about this in a multilevel sense, because that's the emphasis of our conference today. 84 00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:22,420 What are their mutually reinforcing processes at different levels, if for one society that have been important in pursuing reconciliation, 85 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:30,820 not in a very schematic way, want to suggest that there are three crucial processes, but but do different things at different levels? 86 00:08:30,820 --> 00:08:42,220 One has been to get at Community Courts 12000 village trials between 2002 and 2012 that prosecuted 400000 genocide cases. 87 00:08:42,220 --> 00:08:50,920 I think what's particularly important about this enormous, imperfect, unruly, unpredictable process of village justice for George Floyd, 88 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:57,310 for all of those ten years is that I firstly created a really important space for open 89 00:08:57,310 --> 00:09:02,970 contestation and confrontation between community members about the past and about the future. 90 00:09:02,970 --> 00:09:05,070 And also that it delivered punitive justice. 91 00:09:05,070 --> 00:09:11,130 Now this is something we haven't talked about too much today, the importance of punishment that in the Rwandan case, 92 00:09:11,130 --> 00:09:16,470 not just in the genocide survivor community, but even in some segments of the perpetrator community, 93 00:09:16,470 --> 00:09:21,810 there is a sense that the perpetrators to go back and live peacefully on the hills with their neighbours, 94 00:09:21,810 --> 00:09:25,950 that there needs to have been some sense of direct reckoning with the past and 95 00:09:25,950 --> 00:09:30,180 some kind of punishment and the that used a very creative form of punishment, 96 00:09:30,180 --> 00:09:37,020 particularly community service through get it to do so. I think that could such a process getting these trials out in the open, 97 00:09:37,020 --> 00:09:42,600 generating a public debate and delivering a very tangible form of justice to genocide 98 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,920 perpetrators was incredibly important for the overall pursuit of reconciliation. 99 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:55,270 The second crucial process towards reconciliation, but Rwanda has embarked on is a really systematic welfare system. 100 00:09:55,270 --> 00:10:04,250 This is something that we often don't hear in debates about Rwanda. What is remarkable, I think about the Rwandan story over the last 28 years, 101 00:10:04,250 --> 00:10:08,540 with all of its problems with all of its political conflicts, it's increasing. 102 00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:13,820 I would say authoritarianism is that this very illiberal state has in fact delivered the 103 00:10:13,820 --> 00:10:20,570 most systematic welfare programme in the region just once one small into one small. 104 00:10:20,570 --> 00:10:24,080 One indicator of that is that in the space of 15 years, 105 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:32,030 Rwanda halved its child mortality rate because of massive investment in health care and health services. 106 00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:36,620 So that, of course, reduces the fear of death in the context of childbirth, 107 00:10:36,620 --> 00:10:41,920 a really important issue for well-being and people's ability to think about the future. 108 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:50,390 But crucially, and this is one of the things that I've been mapping in my research since 2003 is a very sustained sense at the local level, 109 00:10:50,390 --> 00:10:57,170 especially in rural areas that but state welfare in health care, 110 00:10:57,170 --> 00:11:05,210 education and other areas has drastically decreased socioeconomic inequality across the ethnic divides. 111 00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:07,460 And I can't overstate the importance of this, 112 00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:18,470 that when Khatami stands up and says we are older one now and we need to overcome ethnic identity and embrace a sense of wonder and identity, 113 00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:22,340 many of my history respondents are very suspicious of that kind of dialogue. 114 00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:29,570 Well, that kind of discourse, except when they see that there is some tangible reality in their day to day life, 115 00:11:29,570 --> 00:11:36,710 their own socioeconomic uplift matches this rhetoric of a greater sense of abundance. 116 00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:40,340 And it has numerous other problems, but at least in socioeconomic terms. 117 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:48,380 This, I think, has been absolutely essential to dealing with some of the the key drivers of the genocide in nineteen ninety four. 118 00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:55,550 What's crucial here, too, is that in discussions about socio economic inequality after 1994, 119 00:11:55,550 --> 00:12:00,390 people often point to Rwanda as very drastic Gini coefficient. 120 00:12:00,390 --> 00:12:07,250 But but that I think shrouds are much more important reality that that is often a Gini coefficient generated by the 121 00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:12,740 disjuncture between the social economic reality in Kigali and that socioeconomic reality out in the rural areas. 122 00:12:12,740 --> 00:12:19,910 And undoubtedly, there is a massive gold. But that's not how the vast majority of rural respondents understand inequality. 123 00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:24,140 They don't compare themselves with people living in Kigali because it might as well be another planet. 124 00:12:24,140 --> 00:12:34,040 They compare themselves with their neighbours. And there we are, seeing a high degree of equality manifesting, especially in the last 20 years, 125 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:39,650 and many of my Hutu respondents told me very openly I never expected to be in the RPF to do this. 126 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:45,080 They expected that a minority Tutsi government would do what every previous Rwandan regime had done, 127 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:50,600 which was to fight about their own ethnic group, and they're pleasantly surprised by what they've experienced under the RPF. 128 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,700 Now they're fearful of the RPF in many other respects government surveillance, repression, the rest of it. 129 00:12:55,700 --> 00:13:01,640 But on these really important socioeconomic terms, there has been, I think, some really important improvements there, 130 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:07,940 and I was going to give examples of and share a couple of anecdotes that I'm aware of of the time. 131 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:14,720 The third, I think, important process contributing to reconciliation in Rwanda is at the community level. 132 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,460 So we've got a chat show which was a state orchestrated, community based approach. 133 00:13:19,460 --> 00:13:24,200 We got the welfare system, which is delivered by the state but below the purview of the state. 134 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:31,940 After a charter, we've seen a range of really important informal, locally driven processes with a key emphasis on dialogue. 135 00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:38,030 There's this huge national patchwork of associations, student clubs, economic cooperatives, church groups, you name it. 136 00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:42,890 You go to any community in Rwanda and there'll be 20 of these groups who who meet every week, 137 00:13:42,890 --> 00:13:47,390 sometimes multiple times a week, to talk about current and historical problems. 138 00:13:47,390 --> 00:13:53,150 And I've sat in on hundreds of these meetings and in many respects, they replicate much of the discourse of the church. 139 00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:57,860 We're going to meet in open spaces and talk about the underlying problems in our community, 140 00:13:57,860 --> 00:14:01,370 and we're going to seek some kind of collective solution to that. 141 00:14:01,370 --> 00:14:06,140 These are quieter, less visible forms of reconciliation between individuals and groups, 142 00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:11,030 and I think they crucially complement what we've seen at the national level 143 00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:16,010 so that multiple processes at different levels are performing complementary. 144 00:14:16,010 --> 00:14:18,590 Peace and reconciliation related dimensions. 145 00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:26,250 And I think it's when you put these things together with it, we start to get a sense of why Rwanda is where it is today. 146 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:32,780 The third big theme of this lecture, then, is what is Kober done to all of this? 147 00:14:32,780 --> 00:14:37,670 And I think that the crux here is that Tony Abbott has really challenged the 148 00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:42,970 basis of reconciliation that was laid by those three really important processes. 149 00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:47,650 The reasons for this are probably pretty self-evident in many respects. 150 00:14:47,650 --> 00:14:54,460 One crucial impact of trovate in Rwanda, and it should be said that Rwanda dealt with Typekit pretty well, its numbers were very, very low, 151 00:14:54,460 --> 00:15:02,830 but it came at an enormous cost, particularly in terms of the collapse of the formal and informal economies leading to massive food insecurity now. 152 00:15:02,830 --> 00:15:07,420 I was locked down with my wife and three children. I have to start having COVID. 153 00:15:07,420 --> 00:15:14,080 This week is not a patch on being locked down with my wife and three children aged under six. 154 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:19,360 Never. And we were. We were locked down into daily at two different junctures over five months. 155 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,010 I was in the countryside most of the time, 156 00:15:21,010 --> 00:15:28,600 but in the lockdowns I was obviously totally and also doing much more researching Kigali than I've done in a long time because of lockdown. 157 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,670 I've never seen so much begging in Rwanda. In my 20 years of going there. 158 00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:38,320 There is a real cultural opposition in Rwanda to begging, especially from foreigners. 159 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,140 There is a deep cultural discourse around self-reliance now. 160 00:15:41,140 --> 00:15:47,890 Kovic push people to the edge because many people really were on the brink of starvation, especially in Kigali. 161 00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:49,030 Now this, I think, 162 00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:57,160 is important for understanding the impact of COVID and our thinking about shocks is that there wasn't uniform impact of Typekit across the country, 163 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,430 particularly there was a big rural and urban divide. 164 00:16:00,430 --> 00:16:12,480 One of the things that was really striking during my fieldwork in the countryside last year was the substantial resilience of rural communities, 165 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:18,190 both in a socioeconomic but in a relational sense during COVID, in contrast to what was going on in Kigali. 166 00:16:18,190 --> 00:16:20,590 And I think that this wasn't only about COVID it. 167 00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:29,830 I think it points to the fact that those three reconciliation contributing processes are met before perhaps it taken greater root in rural areas. 168 00:16:29,830 --> 00:16:32,900 There had been much higher Kichcha turnouts in the countryside. 169 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:37,990 This tends to be a lot less government surveillance of people's everyday interactions in the countryside. 170 00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:44,380 Maybe that's helped rural communities get further along the pathway towards reconciliation. 171 00:16:44,380 --> 00:16:45,910 But crucially, during COVID, 172 00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:52,930 one of the things that became so important was that rural communities could continue to grow food and they could continue to eat. 173 00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:57,880 In contrast to urbanites, particularly in Kigali, who could do no such thing, 174 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:04,540 and one of the ways that this manifest was suddenly they were rural to urban remittances. 175 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:11,620 So many of my rural respondents were sending mobile money, and sometimes, even despite the lockdown restrictions, 176 00:17:11,620 --> 00:17:20,530 smuggling food to their relatives in Kigali, one of my long term respondents is a convicted genocide perpetrator. 177 00:17:20,530 --> 00:17:29,860 In my research, I commented. Yet he laughed when he told me the lengths that he'd gone to to get tomatoes, maize, bananas to his relatives in Kigali. 178 00:17:29,860 --> 00:17:34,720 And Nakatani, which is one of the other big towns that this guy is seriously clever, 179 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,920 and he has all sorts of connexions and networks, and he made them work to his advantage. 180 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:44,830 The U.N. food programme should sign Cypriots up immediately, but that was the kind of thing that was happening in many, 181 00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:51,160 many rural communities, completely reversing the trend of remittances from rural to urban areas. 182 00:17:51,160 --> 00:18:00,160 And this is where I think Graham Simpson's presentation on the previous panel really struck a chord with me when he talked about urban youth. 183 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,650 I'm not just curious, but specifically urban youth, 184 00:18:02,650 --> 00:18:10,750 because I think there's a big problem that COVID has created in the Rwandan context amongst youths living in Kigali. 185 00:18:10,750 --> 00:18:17,710 These were an urban poor that was already poor before COVID in the midst of COVID. 186 00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:23,560 There was massive land expropriation and housing destruction that was happening right across Kigali. 187 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:30,190 This is part of the rejuvenation of of Kigali to the Army's Vision 2030 50. 188 00:18:30,190 --> 00:18:32,800 And so this was producing huge anger, 189 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:39,880 particularly amongst those living in Kigali and particularly amongst young people who had been promised that the economic growth and the 190 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:48,040 opportunities that many people had experienced since 1994 would continue ad infinitum and private absolutely put the brakes on that. 191 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:56,010 And it suddenly put the brakes on the Rwandan welfare system, which many people had relied on very heavily up until then. 192 00:18:56,010 --> 00:19:02,820 To summarise, I think the major impact of COVID in terms of peace building and reconciliation in Rwanda was that it 193 00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:09,000 created a huge amount of psychosocial trauma for people that put a huge stress on community relations. 194 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,730 A mantra in so many of my interviews, especially in Kigali, was that people had become selfish. 195 00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:23,190 They had stopped caring about others. There was a huge amount of anger directed towards the government because of the breakdown in the welfare system. 196 00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:30,600 Just this week, I was talking sorry. Last week I was talking to some colleagues of mine who worked on special therapy in Rwanda, 197 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:36,220 and they're saying that this has been the toughest year that I can remember around the commemoration period in April. 198 00:19:36,220 --> 00:19:45,000 But because of COVID, they've they've seen a drastic increase in people's trauma and a real weakening of many community relations. 199 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:54,630 I think the reason for this is that COVID in many respects directly undermine the way that Rwanda had specifically gone about reconciliation. 200 00:19:54,630 --> 00:20:02,640 So much of Rwanda's recovery has been based on an idea of proximity of people engaging directly with one another, 201 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,780 whether that was through the church, whether that was through community dialogues. 202 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:13,200 It wasn't agonistic. It wasn't. It wasn't about expecting that you couldn't. 203 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,700 You couldn't get to a more optimistic future. It was. It was much more in-your-face than that. 204 00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:24,240 There was a high degree of engagement and also a sustained welfare programme had been really important in this respect. 205 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,610 Well, it is a challenge. Both of past lockdown meant that people couldn't visit one another. 206 00:20:29,610 --> 00:20:34,780 People started muttering about each other and also many people were locked down in their homes. 207 00:20:34,780 --> 00:20:38,130 Then there was drone surveillance in Kigali, and in some villages, 208 00:20:38,130 --> 00:20:42,840 people would suddenly look up in the sky and there would be a government drone hovering over their house, 209 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,950 which was hugely shaming for them in the community because their neighbours started 210 00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:52,440 muttering about what that family was doing to contravene the strictures of the lockdown. 211 00:20:52,440 --> 00:21:00,360 So I would argue, and I'm being systematic here because at the time that the one does come a long way in sense of reconciliation, 212 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:06,900 but because of it, I would say it's a country partly in flux. There's a serious process of reorientation going on. 213 00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:11,010 I would say most acutely in Kigali, but it's there in the countryside as well. 214 00:21:11,010 --> 00:21:16,730 And those 28 years of hard work on reconciliation are really being profoundly challenged. 215 00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:21,490 In two minutes, Gwen, please forgive me. Why is this important beyond Rwanda? 216 00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:25,390 I think it's crucial that we that I talk about Rwanda in detail because I think these things, 217 00:21:25,390 --> 00:21:29,350 the impact of Target is so profoundly important for that society. 218 00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:35,500 But I also think that there are things too that we should keep an eye on in other contexts and let me literally deliver them as bullet points. 219 00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:42,730 The first one is we've got to be prepared for shocks. When we think about peacebuilding and reconciliation, expect the unexpected. 220 00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:48,490 We have to build shocks more systematically into peacebuilding and reconciliation theory and practise. 221 00:21:48,490 --> 00:21:53,200 As Tanya said earlier today, and I think it was such a crucial point. 222 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Peace building is perpetual. It's never a one. 223 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:04,590 It's never a set peace process. It's ongoing, and I look forward to Cedric's presentation in a minute on adaptive peace. 224 00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:08,370 Peace building has to be multifaceted and dynamic within the same society. 225 00:22:08,370 --> 00:22:11,580 There are different actors at different levels who have different needs, 226 00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:16,800 and those needs change over time, and peace building and reconciliation have to respond in that sense. 227 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:23,280 One of the things that comes through very strongly, I think in the Rwandan case is that we've got to focus on Kigali. 228 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:30,390 And I think that there has been a tendency sometimes to think that the great economic boom of the city was was going to carry. 229 00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:37,990 So many people will. I think it's leaving people behind. COVID has exacerbated that, and that has huge repercussions for reconciliation. 230 00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:43,560 So there's a whole analysis to be done about the links between peacebuilding and urbanisation. 231 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:49,740 Peacebuilding also requires care, and I think this is a really important word that comes out of my research is that and again, 232 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:54,540 I think this is in contrast to much of what we see in the agonistic literature. 233 00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:58,680 We have a huge amount to learn from social work and anthropology about how we 234 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,180 conceptualise care and how it connects to reconciliation at all levels of society, 235 00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:10,890 and that includes care for individuals. This is why I think Alfred's presentation was also so important because it got us to 236 00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:16,830 think about how much peace and reconciliation is national community level group based. 237 00:23:16,830 --> 00:23:21,420 But it's also about individuals and their psychological and their material circumstances. 238 00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:28,440 And then finally looking beyond the Rwandan context. Reconciliation, I think, still has purchased in so many settings. 239 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,750 This is a term. It's not a dirty term. It shouldn't be automatically dismissed as romantic and impractical. 240 00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:39,360 Now we have to admit, sometimes in the literature, we've talked about reconciliation in romantic, White said. 241 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:43,590 People who have thought that it's an important context of sometimes been their own worst enemy here. 242 00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:48,120 But I think the Rwandan case shows that this is not a fanciful abstract term. 243 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,450 It's got it's got real purchase, it's got real solidity to it. 244 00:23:51,450 --> 00:23:58,380 And at least amongst my respondents over the last 20 years, reconciliation is absolutely seen not as a choice, but as an imperative. 245 00:23:58,380 --> 00:23:59,556 Thanks very much.