1 00:00:05,520 --> 00:00:09,470 Good evening, everybody. My name is Sarah Stevenson. 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:20,520 And to share I the start of disability advancement in the University of Oxford, the Oxford Equality and Diversity Unit. 3 00:00:21,540 --> 00:00:26,060 An absolute pleasure to invite you all to this lecture. 4 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:36,600 We have a fantastic lecture lined up and fantastic speaker and just just a bit of housekeeping for you, obviously, within the wonderful world of Zoom. 5 00:00:37,290 --> 00:00:40,650 So hopefully most of you are familiar with it by now. 6 00:00:41,130 --> 00:00:52,020 If you have any technical questions, you should be able to enable the Q&A team to answer those questions. 7 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,450 Also, we do have live captioning available throughout the session. 8 00:00:58,110 --> 00:01:08,510 Hopefully you are aware how to access that. If not, if you go on to the captions box on your Zoom panel, you should be able to to access it that way. 9 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:17,370 My speaker will be sharing slides, but they will talk through their slides and I believe that is everything. 10 00:01:17,490 --> 00:01:21,990 So in a moment, I'll hand over to our vice chancellor, who will just speak out. 11 00:01:22,590 --> 00:01:29,309 And Amy CAVANAUGH to try and come out, will sit and then we'll have Q&A. 12 00:01:29,310 --> 00:01:34,200 So hopefully that's everything. The session is being recorded. 13 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:43,650 So if you would like access to afterwards, if you see here when you registered, we will be sending emails to people to say where you can access it. 14 00:01:44,310 --> 00:01:48,480 If not, look out for social media and beyond on as well. 15 00:01:48,510 --> 00:01:51,990 So yes, I'll speak to the evening is Dr. Amy CAVANAUGH. 16 00:01:52,770 --> 00:01:57,060 I'm really delighted that we we have Amy with us. 17 00:01:57,210 --> 00:02:01,860 I have been following Amy for quite a while. 18 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:05,670 She goes on the Twitter plant historian. 19 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,720 She's a campaigner, speaker and advocate. 20 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,090 She does work around, obviously, disability accessibility. 21 00:02:15,090 --> 00:02:26,160 She's also a video gamer. She's won many awards being on the likes of what's it called, Steph's Place on Channel four. 22 00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:30,120 She's done many, many, many great things. 23 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:39,030 And we're so looking forward to having her speak the evening on the subject that I think is is very important and really vital. 24 00:02:39,450 --> 00:02:42,600 And so I will I will hand over to you now, Amy. 25 00:02:42,750 --> 00:02:48,000 Thank you very much. Sarah, it's a real delight to be here today. 26 00:02:48,030 --> 00:02:51,240 I'm just going to share my screen. Hello, you. 27 00:02:53,660 --> 00:03:05,750 I am a white blonde woman. I have got dark rimmed glasses on and I'm sat in my office at home wearing a rather fabulous pink headset. 28 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,200 And behind me there are lots of books and all sorts of interesting. 29 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,150 All depends on my shows because this is also where I do my video gaming from. 30 00:03:15,170 --> 00:03:25,790 So this lecture today is going to be an exploration of the disabled experience of unwanted touch, forced help and consent. 31 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:37,820 I'm drawing on my lived experience as a blind activist, but I am also grateful to the hundreds of disabled people who have shared their stories, 32 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,460 reflections and thoughts about their own experiences with me over the years. 33 00:03:45,170 --> 00:03:52,420 This lecture draws on the themes and consistent tropes surrounding unwanted touch and forced help. 34 00:03:53,680 --> 00:04:05,290 In doing so, I hope to draw some parallels between some of the wider challenges of also navigating cultural, social and economic disciple ism. 35 00:04:06,580 --> 00:04:15,850 So a little bit about me. There I am on the left, standing rather proudly with Guide Dog over on my high street. 36 00:04:16,540 --> 00:04:23,090 Guide Dog over is with us today. I've just briefly changed my camera, see if she's in view shape. 37 00:04:23,110 --> 00:04:28,030 She's probably having a lovely sleep right now. She's had a lot of this before. 38 00:04:28,030 --> 00:04:31,420 She's hardly practising it. Says she'll sleep the whole way through, I should imagine. 39 00:04:33,020 --> 00:04:38,300 I hope you change back to me. There I am. So I was born with a condition called ocular albinism. 40 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:47,960 I am registered severely sight impaired or blind, and I use either a long white cane or guide dog ever to aid my mobility. 41 00:04:48,710 --> 00:04:52,640 I'm an activist, freelance and content creator. 42 00:04:53,420 --> 00:04:58,430 Ana Sarah said, I'm interested in all sorts of different issues from public transport, 43 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:05,930 disabled women's rights, video game accessibility, the built environment and digital inclusion. 44 00:05:08,690 --> 00:05:14,150 And most of all, for me, it's really important that today is a trauma informed space. 45 00:05:14,420 --> 00:05:18,050 So this lecture will include challenging material. 46 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,390 I will be discussing and sharing examples of disable this violence. 47 00:05:25,380 --> 00:05:32,460 I abolished language discussions around the police and hate crime as well as sexual assault. 48 00:05:33,950 --> 00:05:38,000 If you find yourself activated by any of this content. 49 00:05:39,170 --> 00:05:42,830 Give yourself the space support and time that you need. 50 00:05:44,070 --> 00:05:48,360 And if you need any supports during this lecture, I really encourage you to access them. 51 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:54,629 Now, whether it's STEM toys, aromatherapy, journaling, snacks, 52 00:05:54,630 --> 00:06:05,310 whatever best supports you to participate and please listen to your body mind that's really important and turning off is a valid choice. 53 00:06:05,580 --> 00:06:09,990 I will not be offended and you can come back in your own time. 54 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:20,340 There's going to be a podcast. There will be a transcript available to be mindful of what you share in the Q&A slash chat function. 55 00:06:20,730 --> 00:06:24,300 Just make sure that it remains as an empowering space as possible. 56 00:06:25,370 --> 00:06:32,990 And if you need support afterwards. I have made a note of some services that I think will be broadcast now. 57 00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:42,410 I particularly recommend The Survivor's Trust, which has a live chat and a freephone line, which is open until 8 p.m. this evening. 58 00:06:47,270 --> 00:06:50,480 So in my mum's words do I think might be watching? 59 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:56,480 How did I end up talking about being groped on radio for all the time? 60 00:06:57,950 --> 00:07:08,540 So despite being born with my visual impairment, I rejected my blindness and my disabled identity until about five or six years ago. 61 00:07:10,330 --> 00:07:14,200 Twentysomething. Amy would be absolutely horrified by me. 62 00:07:14,210 --> 00:07:14,890 Generous. 63 00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:28,630 I left what was an extremely toxic academic career, and I started to explore disability activism and found the support of an amazing online community. 64 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,099 And that meant that I built confidence in my disabled identity. 65 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:38,450 And that included embracing the support of a mobility aids. 66 00:07:38,490 --> 00:07:50,720 My white cane. And as I did that, there was a fundamental disconnect between my joy in my disabled self and the reactions of non-disabled people. 67 00:07:52,310 --> 00:07:58,310 Now someone born disabled. I have always known the structural barriers and inequalities of disabled ism. 68 00:07:59,150 --> 00:08:06,530 But suddenly being visibly disabled brought me a whole new host of experiences and confrontations. 69 00:08:07,910 --> 00:08:16,250 And as I learnt to use my new white cane in 20 1718, I started experiencing what I call cropping. 70 00:08:18,010 --> 00:08:25,410 And this varied from being dragged across roads, pushed into sheet seats, even shoved onto trains. 71 00:08:25,420 --> 00:08:32,420 I didn't want to get on. And I was horrified by the amount of unwanted touch I was experiencing. 72 00:08:33,820 --> 00:08:38,020 And as I started talking about it online, I realised I wasn't alone. 73 00:08:39,190 --> 00:08:42,790 And that this was something that a lot of disabled people experienced. 74 00:08:44,170 --> 00:08:48,460 And therefore the Just Ask Don't Grab campaign was born. 75 00:08:50,220 --> 00:08:57,120 And I have a few examples of people who have shared their experiences here, some using the hashtag. 76 00:08:57,690 --> 00:08:59,580 Others have been linked to the hashtag. 77 00:09:00,390 --> 00:09:09,930 Vicki says she was getting off a bus and a random guy thought he would help by grabbing my crutches, causing me to almost fall. 78 00:09:10,290 --> 00:09:15,799 That was fun. Camp. I think this belongs in hashtag. 79 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:24,150 Just ask. Don't grab. Some guy tried to help me put my jacket on this, worked away and said, Please don't touch me. 80 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,389 He got red in the face and yells at me. What do you think? 81 00:09:28,390 --> 00:09:32,770 I'm some rapist? Don't flatter yourself. And stormed off. 82 00:09:34,780 --> 00:09:39,630 It's that one that. Waiting for Tokyo. 83 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:43,470 I was a blind emoji here and then kind of a shocked face emoji. 84 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,320 This morning, walked down a busy road. Someone grabs my rucksack from behind. 85 00:09:49,620 --> 00:09:53,070 I pull away and shout for them to get off my bike. 86 00:09:53,340 --> 00:09:58,590 I am then met with a torrent of abuse from the bag grabber and another passer by. 87 00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:02,370 Whose justification was that? She was trying to help me. 88 00:10:03,390 --> 00:10:06,900 You might note that what happened three days ago? 89 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,060 This is from Gregory. Stranger. Here, let me take over. 90 00:10:13,270 --> 00:10:16,490 Starts pushing my wheelchair. Me? Thanks. 91 00:10:16,510 --> 00:10:20,290 I got it. Stranger. I insist. Keeps pushing. 92 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,670 Me. No, I insist. Please take your hands off my chair. 93 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:33,470 Stranger. You don't have to be rings. Asking someone to not grab my wheelchair is not rudeness. 94 00:10:35,550 --> 00:10:45,000 And this from Riri. Today my basket was lifted from my lap and tugged out of my hands by a member of staff who insisted they were helping me. 95 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,620 I was at self service and not indicated I needed help. 96 00:10:51,070 --> 00:10:55,010 What they were going to do would have made it harder for me to use the checkouts. 97 00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:58,870 Hashtag just ask. Don't grab simple. 98 00:11:00,650 --> 00:11:06,860 The hash tag functions, both as a space for disabled people to share their stories like the ones here, 99 00:11:06,860 --> 00:11:13,850 but also as guidance for non-disabled people to learn about the impact of unwanted touch. 100 00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:19,610 The hashtag has gone viral multiple times and been covered in national and international media. 101 00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:25,610 On this slides, I have a selection of different headlines, different publications. 102 00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:31,320 Just ask the grab lines. Activist wants to change little spikes harassment. 103 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:37,910 They just layer on top of each other because this is an issue the disabled people talk about a lot. 104 00:11:39,410 --> 00:11:46,820 Too often when someone shares an incident online, maybe for the first time, perhaps after the first use of a mobility aids, 105 00:11:47,420 --> 00:11:55,130 I've witnessed an often really painful moment where someone in the community says, Actually, this is an everyday part of being disabled. 106 00:11:56,530 --> 00:12:01,180 And it absolutely is limited to those who use mobility AIDS. 107 00:12:01,210 --> 00:12:06,700 It impacts any disabled person who appears to be navigating the world differently. 108 00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:14,540 And it's important that nondisabled people understand that the incidents are unrelenting. 109 00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:20,340 I've experienced. On one occasion I counted, I was like, right, I'm going to count today. 110 00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:24,000 This is pre-pandemic. In an hour. 111 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:28,320 I went from my home. I got on the bus and went to a shop called The Bus Home. 112 00:12:29,370 --> 00:12:33,660 In the hour I experienced unwanted touch 16 times. 113 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:43,180 These incidents have a real impact on your confidence, on your willingness to go out and your independence. 114 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:52,050 And it's some of the headlines I share demonstrates this is an issue which particularly affects disabled women. 115 00:12:55,170 --> 00:13:05,040 In the three years ending March 2018, disabled women were almost twice as likely to have experienced any sexual assault in the last year. 116 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,320 At 5.7%, the non-disabled women at 3%. 117 00:13:11,820 --> 00:13:20,880 And significantly disabled women were over five times more likely to have experienced sexual assault in the last year. 118 00:13:21,540 --> 00:13:26,070 5.7% than disabled men. 1.1%. 119 00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:31,940 These statistics are painful and they are shocking, but they are in portions. 120 00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:36,350 Too often when I talk about just don't grab. 121 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:42,450 I'm told that the people who push me off a bus or drag me into traffic are trying to be nice. 122 00:13:42,450 --> 00:13:50,110 So they have good intentions. And whilst this lecture seeks to explore the goodness of those intentions, 123 00:13:50,890 --> 00:13:58,930 it is essential to understand that a significant proportion of the unwanted touch that disabled people experience is violent, 124 00:13:59,620 --> 00:14:11,510 is aggressive and is frightening. The campaign has also generated ongoing research into the experiences of non-consensual touching. 125 00:14:12,380 --> 00:14:18,440 Dr. Hannah Bish, a senior lecturer in criminology and sociology at the University of Sussex, 126 00:14:18,950 --> 00:14:25,580 has collated over 70 stories from disabled women and non-binary people as part of the private places. 127 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,870 Public Spaces. Private Places. Public Spaces. 128 00:14:30,260 --> 00:14:34,030 Project. This project ongoing. 129 00:14:34,030 --> 00:14:38,380 We're looking at what more research we can do because it is a woefully under-researched subject. 130 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,750 Even though we have statistics like this, 131 00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:50,800 academic research into experiences of unwanted touch are still overtly limited to care, home settings or medical settings. 132 00:14:51,220 --> 00:14:56,230 There is really insufficient research into the wider experience of this issue. 133 00:14:58,850 --> 00:15:02,600 In the very powerful words of one of the contributors to this project. 134 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,590 I think this really sums up a lot of what I'm going to be talking about today. 135 00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:15,590 I feel like I am public property having such a visible disability and people's reactions, 136 00:15:16,190 --> 00:15:22,460 although well-intentioned at times, are just a perception of what they think having a disability means. 137 00:15:23,470 --> 00:15:38,980 Needing help all the time. I use the phrase unwanted touch because it embraces the spectrum of non-consensual physical interactions. 138 00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:47,560 This includes the ostensibly helpful attempts of physically moving or aiding a disabled person, 139 00:15:48,490 --> 00:15:59,770 as well as touching mobility aids like a wheelchair or assistance stroke, but also intentionally harmful touch like physical or sexual assault. 140 00:16:01,470 --> 00:16:06,900 Unwanted or unexpected physical touch can exacerbate impairments. 141 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:12,810 Experiences from people who are autistic to those experiencing chronic pain. 142 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:22,350 The act of unwanted touch, even nonverbal touch, can be distressing, can cause sensory overload, 143 00:16:22,530 --> 00:16:30,150 pain, or at the moment and still concerns about infection for people who are immunocompromised. 144 00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:41,780 In incidents of grabbing and unwanted touch, as we saw in the example shared earlier, there is frequently an absolute disregard of consent. 145 00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:53,400 Even saying, no, this will hurt me. Is ignored in favour of the perceived act of good help by the nondisabled person. 146 00:16:54,740 --> 00:17:03,230 I have found my own consent ignored so much that the word no or stop has no effect. 147 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,680 My technique now. And I mean, feel free to try it out yourself. 148 00:17:09,370 --> 00:17:19,899 I squawk like a bird. I just make a loud weird noise and I find that people are more likely to let go of me if I make a loud, 149 00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:23,260 strange noise than if I say, Please stop touching me. 150 00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:36,870 And this entitlement to touch. And the perceived benefits and Goodness of touch has a complex and painful history for disabled people. 151 00:17:39,790 --> 00:17:47,860 Historically, the states, the church and medical institutions have been entitled to disabled bodies. 152 00:17:49,420 --> 00:17:57,160 Laws were enacted and institutions were created to control, discipline and fix disabled bodies. 153 00:17:58,460 --> 00:18:03,140 The ultimate goal almost always being to treat or fix the impairments. 154 00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:15,190 And in the absence of an appropriate cure, institutionalisation enabled control and regulation of disabled bodies and minds. 155 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:25,420 Bodies and minds like those of William Norris, who is sketched here in Burslem Hospital in the early 19th century. 156 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:34,780 William is shown in a cell lying on a cot with straw matting. 157 00:18:36,010 --> 00:18:44,950 They're wearing some kind of long nightdress, and they are changed to the wall by a harness that is attached to both their neck and arms. 158 00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:47,530 And their arms are restricted and pinned to their sides. 159 00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:57,610 The urge to fix and treat the impairments and correct the disabled body is often referred to as the medical model. 160 00:18:59,060 --> 00:19:03,620 And frankly, I couldn't find a more powerful image showing the middle school model than this one. 161 00:19:05,260 --> 00:19:09,190 There is a real urge to fix here. Again, this is a 19th century image. 162 00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:15,130 Later on, it's a photograph and it shows a tripod that has been erected with a winch on it, 163 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:22,899 and the disabled person is being held up by this winch mechanism as three men around them 164 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:28,870 affix plaster of Paris to their torso in an effort to correct their spinal curvature. 165 00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:34,530 The medical model. In the words of French and Swine, 166 00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:44,669 is a series of disciplinary practises aiming towards creating docile disabled bodies bodies who are expected to adjust to 167 00:19:44,670 --> 00:19:53,100 their impairments and comply with the prescribed regimen of rehabilitative treatment administered by medical professionals. 168 00:19:55,390 --> 00:19:58,780 And this is something many disabled people still experience today. 169 00:19:59,470 --> 00:20:02,830 People will frequently share experiences of medical embolism. 170 00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:10,480 My consent for procedures is completely, completely ignored by doctors in favour of the alleged good. 171 00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:20,050 The treatment. It's also really important to understand the institutionalisation discipline of disabled bodies is not a thing of the past. 172 00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:31,420 In the UK, there are currently over 2000 people with learning disabilities and autism detained in inpatient hospitals. 173 00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:42,670 On average, the length of stays in these inappropriate and frequently reportedly violent settings is five and a half years. 174 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:54,179 This includes several hundred children. Furthermore, nondisabled bodies are not just the property of doctors and institutions, 175 00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:58,050 so disabled bodies are not just the property of doctors and institutions. 176 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:05,880 The nondisabled public is still actively encouraged to consume and interact with disabled bodies. 177 00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:11,150 Here. I have an image of the UN database programme which is still produced, 178 00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:17,390 endorses the idea that disabled people are available for consumption and entertainment. 179 00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:22,770 And unfortunately, this is something we cannot even escape in death. 180 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:33,860 Here. I have an image of Charles Byrne known as the Irish Giant in the mid to late 18th century by Charles Byrne how the 181 00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:41,390 condition which meant he was seven foot and seven inches in height and was famous during that period of time. 182 00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:47,810 Now, Charles unfortunately has ill health towards the end of his life and knew that he was going to die. 183 00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:53,960 And he also knew that the eminent scientist, John Hunter, wanted his body. 184 00:21:55,070 --> 00:22:04,610 And so Charles worked incredibly hard to plan so that his body would be put in a LED coffin and that he'd be buried at sea just off market. 185 00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:08,870 But Hunter. Foiled the plan. 186 00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:12,730 SeiSed Charles's body and. 187 00:22:13,970 --> 00:22:27,410 Experimented on it, displayed it, and it has sat in the Hunterian Museum from the 19th century until 2006 when the museum was closed. 188 00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:36,710 They are still debating whether or not they will continue to display Charles's skeleton when the Hunterian reopens. 189 00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:44,050 Even though he explicitly and expressly requested that his remains would not be displayed. 190 00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:49,900 And this is the legacy and impact of the medical model of disability, 191 00:22:50,830 --> 00:22:57,880 the steadfast belief that impairments need fixing, that an impairment means something is wrong with the body. 192 00:22:58,210 --> 00:23:01,420 It is a weakness in need of treatment and intervention. 193 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:13,940 And that therefore non-disabled people are entitled to disabled bodies so that they can be fixed, observed, controlled and examined. 194 00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:26,660 Fundamentally, many of the interactions involving unwanted touch and forced help result from these assumptions of incapacity. 195 00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:37,740 With disability and impairments continually framed as tragic or an individual obstacle to overcome the disabled, 196 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:46,470 body and mobility aids are frequently reduced to passive participants in society and the physical environment. 197 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:57,750 There's a fundamental lack of trust that a disabled person can have autonomy or expertise or confidence in their body, mind and capacity. 198 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,410 These are the strangers who yell at me in the streets, 199 00:24:02,410 --> 00:24:09,010 demanding to know if I'm lost because they cannot possibly envisage an independent, blind person. 200 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,220 Our age like a white cane and assistance dog or a wheelchair. 201 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:24,950 Instead of being recognised as tools of enablement and independence, are instead interpreted as symbols of incapacity. 202 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:35,770 They become announcements of our alleged need for assistance instead of the support systems and mitigations that they actually provide. 203 00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:48,360 And the conclusion is therefore that instead of requiring non-disabled people to be allies in removing physical, 204 00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:53,490 sensory, cognitive, financial and communication barriers. 205 00:24:54,450 --> 00:25:00,510 But instead nondisabled people must assume a role as the intervention themselves. 206 00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:07,940 We are constantly remonstrated with phrases like I was just trying to help. 207 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:18,140 When we reject these interventions. And as a result, we're forced not only to navigate inaccessible environments. 208 00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:22,770 But the assumptions of nondisabled people as well. 209 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,190 And although many of the actions of unwanted help do involve physical touch, 210 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:38,060 there are other important areas to reflect on the classic being opening a door for wheelchair user. 211 00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:40,610 And this is a nice gesture in opening a door. 212 00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:47,389 It's very polite to those people, but it's often actively unhelpful because the non-disabled person assumes, 213 00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:53,240 you know, doors are a great and impassable barrier and they take on the role of the door opener, 214 00:25:53,990 --> 00:26:02,780 usually only to create a barrier themselves or what some of my wheelchair friends using friends call the armpit sniffing dance where the arm is 215 00:26:02,780 --> 00:26:09,919 physically put across the door so that you actually can't get past the person because they're stood in the door trying to get you through the door. 216 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,790 And if they just let you open the door yourself, you could use the flipping door. 217 00:26:15,870 --> 00:26:20,460 Other examples for me include the drivers that try to wave me on at traffic. 218 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:26,280 You can cross love. It's all right. And I can hear the motorbike coming around the corner. 219 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:39,210 Or when people take bags or food or items of clothing or other possessions away from disabled people to try and do a task for them. 220 00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:45,750 The example we had earlier of trying to put on your own jacket and someone deciding you can't do that for yourself. 221 00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:52,900 And a key theme amongst these actions of unwanted or forced help. 222 00:26:53,530 --> 00:27:00,520 That they take decisions, independence and autonomy away from disabled people. 223 00:27:02,350 --> 00:27:06,220 They are actions without permission and without consent. 224 00:27:07,620 --> 00:27:15,060 It is frequently a case of a non-disabled person making a decision on behalf of a disabled person. 225 00:27:16,250 --> 00:27:21,470 And the assumption remains that they, as a person without impairments, without disability, 226 00:27:22,010 --> 00:27:33,110 are better equipped to function in the world and should act instead of removing the obstacles or barriers which are currently preventing independence. 227 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:44,610 This belief that non-disabled people have a duty to help and assist disabled 228 00:27:44,610 --> 00:27:50,760 people is actively encouraged by what is called the charity model of disability. 229 00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:59,810 And the charity model draws on the medical model by framing non-disabled people as saviours of disabled people. 230 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,330 For me, this is best represented by the infamous chip, the clip collection boxes. 231 00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:14,450 And here we have a contemporary photo of a young child putting money in the tin for the Helps 232 00:28:14,450 --> 00:28:21,050 Plastics campaign and the collection boxes in the shape of an infantilized little girl. 233 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,220 And she's holding up the tin that says, Please help spastic. 234 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:31,220 And she has a leg brace on. These were very popular on British High Streets right up until the 1980s. 235 00:28:31,580 --> 00:28:39,270 Lots of people will remember these. Fundraising initiatives represent disability as a tragedy, 236 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:49,710 something that can only be remedied by financial interventions and services not from the state and not through the provision of rights, 237 00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:53,400 but through the actions of non-disabled publics. 238 00:28:55,570 --> 00:29:03,400 And the sociologist AJ Withers highlighted that children are often used as imagery for charity model fundraising efforts. 239 00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:17,409 Seriously, go Google the latest campaign from, you know scope I and I be autistic society always using children and with this says that this is 240 00:29:17,410 --> 00:29:25,150 because the underlying message is that fundraising gives hope and hope mostly of a cure or a remedy. 241 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:32,230 And because if you show children a cure could lead to them becoming productive workers. 242 00:29:32,830 --> 00:29:36,430 And children are innately more pitiable in this framing. 243 00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:42,690 And this message is disability is a tragedy that needs remedying. 244 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:47,910 Really spurred on the direct action network in the 1990s. 245 00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:55,110 Here we have a photograph of the famous block telephone campaign where many disabled 246 00:29:55,110 --> 00:30:00,630 people and wheelchair users are in protest with brightly coloured banners. 247 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:11,580 And pissed on pity was a challenge to the trauma porn representations of disability and the failure of society to be accessible for disabled people. 248 00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:19,739 And if you want to learn more, you can very much enjoy the representation of this event by watching Ben. 249 00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:25,620 Barbara met Alan on BBC iPlayer and you might see me in the background doing some angry pointing. 250 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:37,500 But unfortunately, we're still subjected to mass fundraising events, often using disabled children as pitiful for non-disabled people, 251 00:30:38,550 --> 00:30:44,310 thus resulting in a continued cultural framing of helping a passive, sad, 252 00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:52,890 disabled person being good rather than encouraging people to question the inequalities that cause that disabled ism. 253 00:30:53,730 --> 00:31:03,150 Think about if you want a classic example of it recently, think about something like the children in need big builds where they send Nick Knowles 254 00:31:03,150 --> 00:31:09,340 along to rebuild a house that's completely inaccessible for a family with a disabled child. 255 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,550 And it's lovely. And lots of volunteers build the house, give their time, and make them a loving, accessible home. 256 00:31:14,970 --> 00:31:20,310 But why is no one asking why they cannot have an accessible home in the first place? 257 00:31:20,730 --> 00:31:26,730 And why does that need to be televised? Why do we need the crying disabled child? 258 00:31:26,730 --> 00:31:31,770 They finally have a left and some dignity. It's really troubling. 259 00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:39,100 And this brings me on to kind of that next point, that crying, grateful disabled child's, 260 00:31:39,730 --> 00:31:50,550 because many disabled people will be familiar after rejecting an offer of help or challenging an unwanted touch by say by the for the helper. 261 00:31:51,870 --> 00:31:56,970 GRUFFLY responding. Well, I was only trying to help. Well, you should be grateful. 262 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,480 Because there's the expectation by a helper that the disabled person that will be grateful 263 00:32:05,050 --> 00:32:11,650 or will positively receive the interaction regardless of any consent or any permission. 264 00:32:12,650 --> 00:32:19,910 And this is intimately tied to the assumption that help is automatically required and that 265 00:32:19,910 --> 00:32:25,760 the nondisabled person is the one in the position of authority and expertise as the helper. 266 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:39,130 And this problem stems from this societal framing of helping and helping a disabled person being an intrinsic good or a compassionate duty. 267 00:32:40,390 --> 00:32:46,570 And this is where we get the really tangled web of kind of good deeds and nice intentions and 268 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:53,740 really annoys some people because there is a simultaneous perception of a social contract. 269 00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:03,550 So I believe. There's the social contract that there is an obligation to be kind and to be good towards lesser disabled people. 270 00:33:04,330 --> 00:33:11,230 And therefore the reciprocal end of the social contract is the great for the rest of the disabled person must display. 271 00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:17,340 And I'm not saying that helping a disabled person is always bad. 272 00:33:17,490 --> 00:33:23,100 You know, if you do it consensually and if someone genuinely needs some help and they accept an offer, that's fine. 273 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:30,390 But the problem is that too often when a disabled person refuses help or rejects unwanted touching. 274 00:33:31,410 --> 00:33:39,540 It's like they're rejecting the nondisabled person's self perception of goodness and kindness. 275 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,580 We've made them feel bad about the good deed that they wanted to do. 276 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:54,600 And then actually you'll find that regardless of any pain or distress or fear caused to a disabled person, 277 00:33:55,110 --> 00:34:00,990 it becomes the injured feelings of the non-disabled person that take priority. 278 00:34:01,410 --> 00:34:04,620 They were trying to be nice. You were rude. 279 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:10,410 You've hurt their feelings. As the bruises are forming on your arm. 280 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:19,940 And most importantly. If kind intentions are kind, they should not be conditional. 281 00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:24,990 And they should not be conditional upon compliance. 282 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:34,310 And demanding compliance of disabled people extends beyond these acts of helpfulness. 283 00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:45,290 Expectations of compliance are frequently expressed in the entitlement to information about disabled people. 284 00:34:47,390 --> 00:34:50,790 And this ranges from the. Oh, what's wrong with you? 285 00:34:50,810 --> 00:34:59,480 Or were you born like that from a taxi driver or an older person who sits down next to you on the train? 286 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:13,200 It includes demanding evidence of disability, accusations of faking disability and intrusive questions about bodily functions. 287 00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:18,300 And that latter one is very frequently a precursor to the help. 288 00:35:19,050 --> 00:35:26,010 There's an implication that you have to tell me how much you can see before I'll help you, 289 00:35:26,370 --> 00:35:31,500 or you have to prove to me that you can't use your legs before I'll help you. 290 00:35:32,970 --> 00:35:43,680 This questioning or commenting about disability or impairments is also something utilised to refuse services or to deny access. 291 00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:52,610 The classics being demanding proof that you can use an accessible toilet or parking spot. 292 00:35:52,610 --> 00:35:56,780 You don't look disabled. What disability do you have? 293 00:35:56,780 --> 00:36:07,050 You're not allowed that. And this information is seen as a public right, a justification to give us permission to be present. 294 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,270 And most importantly, it is a it is a protection. 295 00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:18,210 It is a protection against the potential deviance of disability. 296 00:36:20,730 --> 00:36:26,310 Because just people will always say, wow, those fakers could be using that parking spot. 297 00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:34,480 In November 2006, a U.N. enquiry found. 298 00:36:35,660 --> 00:36:43,370 That the UK government and specifically its austerity policies had systemically violated disabled people's rights. 299 00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:57,250 And subsequent investigations have found over 17,000 sick and disabled people have died waiting for welfare and benefits support in the UK. 300 00:37:00,580 --> 00:37:07,780 And in the last fortnight alone the Government have announced a new crack team of investigators who, 301 00:37:07,780 --> 00:37:15,100 alongside a controversial algorithm, will be targeting disabled people claiming welfare support. 302 00:37:16,990 --> 00:37:30,390 These harmful government policies. Continue to be worse, supported by a hostile media environment dedicated to outing disabled benefit scroungers. 303 00:37:31,650 --> 00:37:36,420 Here. I have images of a collection of headlines from all different tabloids, 304 00:37:36,990 --> 00:37:46,200 and they constantly feed the public with lines about undeserving disabled fakers, scroungers, benefits, cheats. 305 00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:54,240 75% of incapacity claimants are fit to work mansions described as 4 million scrounging families. 306 00:37:55,700 --> 00:38:06,680 And members of the public have been repeatedly encouraged not just by the media but by the government to report on fake disability benefit claimants. 307 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,620 If you put benefit fraud, the first thing that comes up is how to report somebody. 308 00:38:15,020 --> 00:38:20,030 They've made that really, really easy to do, but they've not made the PIP application easy. 309 00:38:20,270 --> 00:38:32,760 And I guess that says it all, doesn't it? In 2009, Team nine out of ten of these reports were found to be false after the DWP investigated them. 310 00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:48,160 Nine out of ten. And so we have been left with a society and a culture with that belief in the entitlement to the bodies and minds of disabled people. 311 00:38:49,590 --> 00:38:55,050 And this is a hangover from those very institutions of previous and current centuries. 312 00:38:55,530 --> 00:39:00,690 And it enables and supports a social power over disabled people, 313 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:08,730 giving permission to nondisabled people to question, to act, to examine and to punish. 314 00:39:11,140 --> 00:39:16,780 And this expresses itself in acts of testing, demanding paperwork, 315 00:39:17,410 --> 00:39:22,810 the people that will intentionally walk in front of me in the streets just to check that I'm really blind, 316 00:39:23,260 --> 00:39:27,390 or the person who screams at you if you dare to move your foot in a wheelchair. 317 00:39:29,060 --> 00:39:34,520 But this is an authority over disabled bodies and how we navigate spaces. 318 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,100 And this is especially the case for particular groups of disabled people. 319 00:39:41,690 --> 00:39:49,760 Especially those for whom they have impairments that are seen as socially unacceptable, inappropriate or unpalatable. 320 00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:56,709 For example, of people who experience facial difference or limb difference find themselves 321 00:39:56,710 --> 00:40:02,830 particularly subject to controlling and violent behaviour by members of the public. 322 00:40:04,410 --> 00:40:14,070 Disable ism ultimately expresses itself through hostility and acts of violence, where disabled people find themselves harassed and attacked. 323 00:40:15,030 --> 00:40:19,200 And sometimes this violence is even repackaged as entertainment. 324 00:40:19,530 --> 00:40:23,730 And as many individuals with dwarfism have bravely shared it, frankly, 325 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:30,420 they have experiences of being thrown and then the incidents, the films and circulated online. 326 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,750 And of course, this is rarely endorsed by wider society, at least on the surface. 327 00:40:38,410 --> 00:40:43,900 There remains a kind of disabling culture, which I call kind of permission to exist. 328 00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:50,780 And it's the assumption that disabled people should be grateful for an accessible society. 329 00:40:51,730 --> 00:40:55,050 We should be thankful for the ramps and the welfare support. 330 00:40:55,060 --> 00:41:01,120 It's the people who say that they're going to pet my guide dog anyway because they donate to the charity. 331 00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:08,060 When you go to use the accessible toilets, somebody will announce, Oh yes, you can go in, you're allowed in. 332 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:17,800 And the really sinister outcome. If not, gratitude isn't expressed. 333 00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:22,820 Or if this alleged benevolence becomes a burden. 334 00:41:24,250 --> 00:41:38,100 Well, then that permission can be withdrawn. The COVID 19 pandemic brought into sharp focus the inequalities faced by disabled people. 335 00:41:39,650 --> 00:41:48,080 And I have a very painful image here. In May 2021, Dominic Cummings released a photograph of the government plans. 336 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,530 In March 2020, what were they going to do to tackle the virus? 337 00:41:52,850 --> 00:42:01,280 And infamously, this included a whiteboard scribbled on the whiteboard with the words, Who do we not save? 338 00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:09,520 The latest figures still show that disabled people represent six out of ten deaths from COVID 19. 339 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,920 And in their recent release, the Office of National Statistics stated. 340 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:23,840 The analysis shows a continued elevated risk of COVID 19 mortality in disabled people, 341 00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:33,500 compared with non-disabled people, which remains largely unchanged across the three waves of the pandemic. 342 00:42:35,260 --> 00:42:39,970 And despite this continued risk mask, mandates have been dropped. 343 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:47,410 Support for the clinically vulnerable has been stoked. And social distancing is its and. 344 00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:53,910 Throughout the pandemic, we have been told that it was only the most vulnerable at risk. 345 00:42:54,270 --> 00:42:58,620 But with deaths, mostly of people with underlying health conditions. 346 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:07,870 And during this pandemic, disabled people have found themselves on a knife edge between demonstrating that they are 347 00:43:07,870 --> 00:43:16,060 vulnerable enough to receive supports but not too vulnerable to just become a forgotten statistic. 348 00:43:17,540 --> 00:43:27,920 UN. Since 2020, many disabled people have shared stories of members of the public telling them to go home or that they shouldn't be out in public. 349 00:43:29,630 --> 00:43:35,780 For many disabled people that permission to navigate public spaces has been withdrawn, 350 00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:43,040 either by the lack of support to remain safe from the virus or by increased feelings of 351 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:48,470 hostility from the general public who aren't used to seeing the mountain about so much. 352 00:43:52,420 --> 00:43:55,270 In the extremely powerful words of Francis Ryan. 353 00:43:56,870 --> 00:44:05,360 The truth is disabled and older people were not vulnerable to the virus simply because of their health or age. 354 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,940 They were vulnerable because the government did not bother to keep them safe. 355 00:44:12,250 --> 00:44:17,920 What happened to our most vulnerable during the pandemic was not some terrible tragedy. 356 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:29,980 It was the all too predictable consequences of a system that decided the lives of disabled older people mattered less than those of the rest. 357 00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:42,580 Because it's always a choice. And who do we not save continues to be a choice every single day. 358 00:44:47,530 --> 00:44:49,090 And as the pandemic has shown, 359 00:44:49,690 --> 00:45:00,190 too often getting the right support is contingent on demonstrating vulnerability and at the same time expressing the right types of behaviour. 360 00:45:02,260 --> 00:45:07,270 And this pressure to disclose all your information about your body and its 361 00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:13,480 conditions and why you need support extends beyond health care and social supports. 362 00:45:14,590 --> 00:45:22,930 Too often, disabled people are demanded to live their trauma publicly in order to educate and raise awareness. 363 00:45:24,820 --> 00:45:32,620 The news articles and social media videos exposing unwanted help are supposed to fill a gap left by education. 364 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,610 And too frequently the demand is that we must educate kindly, 365 00:45:39,330 --> 00:45:49,530 but we must voice your distress with measured words and speak our truth without the sharp edges that express our exhaustion and rage. 366 00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:57,940 In the metro in April of this year. Melissa Parker, an excellent journalist, framed it perfectly. 367 00:45:59,830 --> 00:46:06,430 We are told by broader society and by those around us to educate those who might harm us. 368 00:46:07,630 --> 00:46:17,650 And to exercise understanding towards the people who abuse us to see their humanity even as they flatten our own. 369 00:46:19,630 --> 00:46:27,670 This tone. Policing is another means of demanding civility and compliance from disabled people. 370 00:46:28,930 --> 00:46:40,720 We must ask nicely to be granted consent, bodily autonomy or access, instead of voicing our rights or speaking our anger about the denial. 371 00:46:43,230 --> 00:46:49,910 And for me, most painfully, this is commonly expressed through lateral embolism. 372 00:46:51,390 --> 00:47:00,300 That is disabled people policing other disabled people that they consider to threaten the politeness status quo. 373 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:09,479 And the most common response I get from the blind community online is that by speaking out about unwanted touching, 374 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:14,280 I will stop anyone ever helping us again that I am harming the community. 375 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,850 And there is sometimes a really distressing belief from other disabled people that we have to 376 00:47:21,850 --> 00:47:29,560 tolerate the harmful or violent acts on the condition that sometimes we actively need assistance. 377 00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:40,460 The insistence by people within and without the community that we still need to ask nicely and educate kindly is troubling. 378 00:47:42,070 --> 00:47:53,830 Because it perpetuates the idea that disabled people need to behave correctly and seek permission to be free from violence or to access equality. 379 00:47:55,490 --> 00:47:59,990 And most of all, let's face it, asking nicely isn't working. 380 00:48:01,940 --> 00:48:09,260 So instead of asking nicely today, I'm asking nondisabled people to examine their own actions. 381 00:48:10,290 --> 00:48:16,920 And the disabled list culture that has produced. And I'm often asked. 382 00:48:17,930 --> 00:48:24,500 What are the solutions? And something that comes up as a common solution is hate crime and policing. 383 00:48:26,310 --> 00:48:38,670 In 2020 to 2021, there were over 9200 disability hate crimes reported to the police in England and Wales, with half of them classed as violence. 384 00:48:40,050 --> 00:48:42,720 That means they involve assault or a weapon. 385 00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:53,000 I've even been anecdotally told that there are well known repeat offenders who will specifically target disabled women on the transport network. 386 00:48:53,780 --> 00:49:03,320 And yet, just 1% of cases in 2020, 2021 were referred to the Crown Prosecution Service or charged. 387 00:49:05,740 --> 00:49:11,800 9200 reports correlates to around 25 hate crime incidents per day. 388 00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:17,520 And yes, reporting hate crime helps with the statistics. 389 00:49:17,790 --> 00:49:20,190 It demonstrates the scale of the issue. 390 00:49:20,910 --> 00:49:29,489 And whenever I share or disclose an experience of unwanted touching or sexual assault or violence, everyone says, Oh, you should report it. 391 00:49:29,490 --> 00:49:38,670 You must report it. And really, this demonstrates a complete ignorance of the inaccessibility and hostility of the criminal justice system, 392 00:49:39,210 --> 00:49:46,990 especially towards marginalised people. For many people, calling the police isn't safe. 393 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,520 And we need to recognise that as a disabled community. 394 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,720 As a white woman, I am in a relatively privileged position to report crime. 395 00:49:59,820 --> 00:50:04,830 But in the five years I've been reporting crimes, I haven't yet had a single prosecution. 396 00:50:06,180 --> 00:50:09,930 I found CCTV of a 10 minutes of film footage. 397 00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:16,920 I had witnesses. I've had it all. And cases just get dropped again and again and again. 398 00:50:18,490 --> 00:50:22,240 The first time I ever reported a hate crime and a sexual assault is disabled. 399 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:34,180 Person was 2018 when I was walking home through Kings Cross and I was in the pedestrian tunnel in the train station and a man came up to me. 400 00:50:35,090 --> 00:50:39,999 He kept saying he wanted to guide me and he kept kind of trying to bother me. 401 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,220 And I said, No, no, I'm fine. And eventually he started grabbing me. 402 00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:47,620 He was touching my breasts. He was assaulting me. And I managed to get him off me. 403 00:50:48,250 --> 00:50:53,079 And I called the police and the British Transport Police said, because I'm blind, 404 00:50:53,080 --> 00:51:00,610 I must have been confused that there's a lot of homeless people active in that area and it was probably just somebody wanting some money. 405 00:51:02,010 --> 00:51:05,640 There's CCTV in that tunnel and they didn't even check it. 406 00:51:07,710 --> 00:51:14,250 And it's not just me. Studies have shown that the police are ill equipped to support disabled victims of crime. 407 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,950 That is despite the disproportionate rate at which we experience it. 408 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:33,020 Reporting is dramatic, time consuming, hostile, inaccessible and ultimately fruitless for many disabled people. 409 00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:40,830 So unless you are prepared to support someone through this complex and often painful process, 410 00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:45,540 don't tell someone they have a duty to report or to just report it. 411 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:56,950 Instead. One of the most powerful things you can do as an ally is to be an active bystander. 412 00:51:58,570 --> 00:52:06,070 And these techniques with them were developed by marginalised people initially to deal with incidents of racism and xenophobia. 413 00:52:07,950 --> 00:52:12,960 It's really important to understand the bystander intervention doesn't mean riding in on a white horse. 414 00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:19,170 It is about taking steps to empower and support someone experiencing harassment or violence. 415 00:52:19,830 --> 00:52:24,570 And these are the five days of bystander intervention. So first instruction. 416 00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:29,790 This is an opportunity to distract or derail the incident. 417 00:52:30,030 --> 00:52:35,100 It's probably the one I recommend the most. Focus on the person experiencing the harassment. 418 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,090 Drop money, sprinkle change everywhere. 419 00:52:40,180 --> 00:52:45,459 Ask the person experiencing the harassment, the time where the nearest bus stop is, 420 00:52:45,460 --> 00:52:52,660 or if they have a tissue because it shows the person experiencing harassment that you're there, go there for them. 421 00:52:52,660 --> 00:52:55,809 You see, it's also shows the harasser that you see. 422 00:52:55,810 --> 00:53:02,650 It's also a fantastic way to get someone away from a harasser if the situation is appropriate. 423 00:53:03,220 --> 00:53:12,370 And I go like full bumbling blind lady on this, I like dial into those ableist assumptions and I'm like, Oh, know, I'm so lost. 424 00:53:12,370 --> 00:53:19,800 Can I. Oh, could you possibly help me find my way? Get them in a place where you can get them away from experience. 425 00:53:20,670 --> 00:53:23,790 Delegates. This is about involving a third party. 426 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,750 It could be another bystander. This could be a member of staff. 427 00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:31,660 This is about. I don't feel equipped to deal with this on my own. 428 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:39,860 I want to use these other techniques, but I need someone with me. Don't call the police without the permission of the person being harassed. 429 00:53:39,890 --> 00:53:44,959 Like I said, it's not always safe about person. Really good example of this. 430 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,710 I had someone was following me around the supermarket patting Ira. 431 00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:50,090 They wouldn't leave her alone. 432 00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:56,660 And somebody went and told a member of staff and a member of staff came over, intervened and got the person to leave me alone. 433 00:53:58,890 --> 00:54:02,460 Documents. Make notes about what is happening. 434 00:54:02,670 --> 00:54:06,420 If you feel safe to do so, you can film or you can record audio. 435 00:54:07,380 --> 00:54:12,480 Even just noting the time, the location, a description of the harasser. 436 00:54:13,350 --> 00:54:19,200 All of these can be powerful tools, but filming is a precarious act. 437 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:24,420 It can make a harasser feel safe and make them stop doing what they're doing. 438 00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:33,570 Or it can help ramp up that aggression. Afterwards, ask the person who was harassed what they want you to do with the film. 439 00:54:33,630 --> 00:54:37,200 Do they want to copy? Do they want you to destroy it? 440 00:54:37,980 --> 00:54:42,930 Do not post it online without permission. And it feels really obvious to say that. 441 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:49,410 But how many viral racist tirade man on the tube videos have you seen on the internet? 442 00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,190 Direct. This is the confrontational approach. 443 00:54:54,220 --> 00:54:57,640 I'm not going to lie. It's one of my favourites, but that's the kind of person I am. 444 00:54:58,270 --> 00:55:03,130 It involves challenging the harasser. Now, it does not have to be aggressive. 445 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,330 It doesn't have to be violent. I actively encourage you not to be violent. 446 00:55:07,930 --> 00:55:14,020 You can simply name the actions that can be very powerful stating out loud that you are witnessing it. 447 00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:18,880 I see you being hateful. You are harassing that person. 448 00:55:19,950 --> 00:55:23,820 Of course, always assess your safety. To do this. 449 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:30,840 And delay, because you know what? Sometimes we don't feel able to act, and that's okay. 450 00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:37,620 And if you feel unable to act. One of the most supportive things you can do is check in with the person afterwards. 451 00:55:38,310 --> 00:55:42,570 Do they want you to be a witness? Do they want a cup of tea? 452 00:55:43,710 --> 00:55:52,680 Are they okay? This simple act can be transformative for someone who's just experienced violence or harassment because it says, 453 00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,520 I saw you, that wasn't okay and I am here for you. 454 00:55:57,950 --> 00:56:01,200 Always take the lead from the person being harassed. 455 00:56:01,220 --> 00:56:04,790 It's about supporting them in the way that they want. 456 00:56:06,990 --> 00:56:12,420 I also recommend taking online bystander intervention techniques on boards. 457 00:56:13,140 --> 00:56:17,400 I recommend Glitch. They have a website. I often link to it online. 458 00:56:17,730 --> 00:56:21,990 They have really great online bystander intervention techniques which draw on 459 00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:27,330 these because often when disabled people will share a story online of harassment, 460 00:56:27,810 --> 00:56:33,660 they then face the trauma of being challenged or doubted or abused, 461 00:56:33,660 --> 00:56:39,630 upholding the behaviour or the actions of the harasser, a.k.a. they were being nice. 462 00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:43,580 You're being rude. You should be grateful. So. 463 00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:51,760 So in conclusion, I wish there was an easy solution. 464 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,570 I wish I could wave a magic wand and say, this is the one thing that will fix all of this. 465 00:56:57,620 --> 00:57:03,650 And today, hopefully, you know, a hundred people will take away a greater understanding of this issue. 466 00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:13,430 And I want you to talk about it, and I want you to uplift the disabled voices who are speaking about it, have conversations about this issue. 467 00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:20,240 Talk about it with your colleagues, with your kids, with people who you are sat next to on the bus. 468 00:57:21,420 --> 00:57:25,559 Tell them about. Just ask, don't grab and model consensual. 469 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,970 Best practise of offering assistance. It's easy. 470 00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:34,020 Introduce yourself. Offer the assistance. 471 00:57:34,260 --> 00:57:40,120 Listen to the answer. Do the helping if they want help and say goodbye. 472 00:57:41,780 --> 00:57:46,160 I hope some of you will become active bystanders and challenge the status quo. 473 00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:54,410 But fundamentally, I believe that we need a radical shift in cultural understandings and representations of people disability. 474 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:59,270 We need education. We need access. We need disability rights. 475 00:57:59,870 --> 00:58:04,799 We need nothing about us without us. The most of all. 476 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:11,610 And this is the headline. Help is not helpful if it is not consensual. 477 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:25,210 Deciding when and how to help a disabled person without their permission or respecting their needs is not helpful or kind for nice. 478 00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:34,740 And now I'm speaking to disabled people. We have a right to decide who touches us and when. 479 00:58:36,350 --> 00:58:44,450 You don't have to tolerate it or accept it when someone violates your boundaries or ignores your bodily autonomy. 480 00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:50,040 This doesn't have to be part of the experience of being disabled. 481 00:58:52,490 --> 00:58:58,100 We do not need permission to exist independently in public places. 482 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,600 And we don't have to accept help that we don't want. 483 00:59:06,350 --> 00:59:10,670 Thank you very much. Lovely. 484 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,809 Thank you so much, Amy, for the audience. 485 00:59:14,810 --> 00:59:25,340 I'm Catherine Walter. I am the chair of the university's disability advisory group and we are just absolutely delighted to have Amy here today. 486 00:59:26,060 --> 00:59:30,860 I will leave more of that to my colleague later. 487 00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:41,269 My job is to try to get as many varied and interesting questions from those that were submitted to Amy to get her responses. 488 00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:49,370 So we may not be able to get them all in, but I'll try to give you a good mix to give you an idea some of the reactions. 489 00:59:49,610 --> 00:59:58,520 So here's one fantastic, thought provoking talk much to go and think about. 490 00:59:58,910 --> 01:00:06,140 Thank you. In my non-university role, I work with children with autism or learning disability. 491 01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:15,890 Their parents are often mortified because their children go up to people and ask them questions such as What's wrong with you? 492 01:00:17,740 --> 01:00:27,040 What happened to your legs? What is your experience of young or disabled children asking personal questions? 493 01:00:27,340 --> 01:00:30,400 What can I say to the mortified parents? 494 01:00:31,370 --> 01:00:36,169 I mean, this is me speaking for myself. But from reactions I've had online, 495 01:00:36,170 --> 01:00:44,290 I think quite a few disabled people feel similarly in that children are going to ask questions and they 496 01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:50,900 are learning about the world and they are often asking from a place of curiosity and desire to learn. 497 01:00:52,190 --> 01:01:00,950 And I personally find it very charming and absolutely happy to do that little bit of education. 498 01:01:01,790 --> 01:01:05,330 And mostly because children are coming from a place where they are not. 499 01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:13,420 They haven't yet absorbed the Amazon. My favourite being there was a young child. 500 01:01:13,690 --> 01:01:16,929 I live in quite a middle class area in London and I live in our primary school, 501 01:01:16,930 --> 01:01:21,430 so I get a lot of young children kind of making comments or asking questions and I 502 01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:26,169 was walking along the street with my white cane and little voice pops up and says, 503 01:01:26,170 --> 01:01:30,340 You know, Mummy, what's that lady have a stick. And I could feel the energy. 504 01:01:30,340 --> 01:01:34,660 Like, this parent is like, ready for this moment. They thought about it. 505 01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:42,580 They were going to answer it in the best way possible. And they went into this really great like age appropriate description of is ladies 506 01:01:42,580 --> 01:01:47,260 always don't work and the stick helps them move around and they were like nailing it. 507 01:01:47,590 --> 01:01:52,090 And then the child just went, Okay, why are there brown leaves on the floor? 508 01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:55,910 And like that question was the same scale for them. 509 01:01:56,270 --> 01:02:02,740 And I think evidently when there is also a cognitive need, I don't think people should be mortified. 510 01:02:02,750 --> 01:02:09,650 I think hopefully disabled people are going to be the most compassionate with other disabled people, especially young people. 511 01:02:10,220 --> 01:02:18,350 And I think it's about if you are a parent like that parent I encountered, it's about trying to prepare for those conversations. 512 01:02:19,340 --> 01:02:29,060 It's about thinking, have I exposed my child to enough representations of disability that they don't feel the urge to ask that question of a stranger? 513 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:35,330 You know, are there disabled characters in the books that we read together or in the programmes that we watch? 514 01:02:35,630 --> 01:02:37,900 And have we had conversations about this? 515 01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:48,080 And there are lots of good examples of accessible resources about that as well, and creating social stories and sensory stories about disability. 516 01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:53,840 And quite frankly, as a disabled child, I wish I'd met more disabled people because I didn't. 517 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:59,030 And one of the greatest benefits for disabled children is peer supports, 518 01:02:59,510 --> 01:03:04,910 both from their own age group, but also from people who experience their disability as an adult. 519 01:03:06,020 --> 01:03:09,110 So I would really recommend, if possible, encouraging, 520 01:03:09,590 --> 01:03:18,740 productive and informative and supportive environments where young people can explore those questions together with disabled adults. 521 01:03:20,220 --> 01:03:24,360 Okay. Thank you. Okay. Here's a very different question. 522 01:03:25,550 --> 01:03:31,040 Hi, Amy. This is absolutely superb, and I love that you tell it as it is. 523 01:03:32,940 --> 01:03:39,030 I am so tired of having to be polite and protect other people's feelings. 524 01:03:40,170 --> 01:03:47,100 How do you manage all the anger and how do you stop yourself from collapsing inwards? 525 01:03:47,430 --> 01:03:51,330 How do you stop yourself feeling like you are drowning and alone? 526 01:03:52,050 --> 01:03:56,370 Thank you so much for speaking up. I am just sorry that you have to. 527 01:03:57,940 --> 01:04:03,430 Gosh, that's a powerful question. And you're right, it is really hard. 528 01:04:04,550 --> 01:04:08,030 For me personally, I do this. This helps me. 529 01:04:08,860 --> 01:04:14,090 It's not easy. Talking about it publicly does help. 530 01:04:14,810 --> 01:04:21,050 Dealing with the backlash is not so nice. Dealing with the trolling is not so nice, especially when it comes from other disabled people. 531 01:04:22,370 --> 01:04:27,020 I'm also in the very privileged position of being able to afford an excellent disabled therapist, 532 01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:32,990 and I would recommend, if you can, finding a disabled therapist, because then you don't have to do all the explaining. 533 01:04:35,700 --> 01:04:41,400 I would say it's about finding the right support and community. 534 01:04:41,700 --> 01:04:49,469 I have a WhatsApp group of of the disabled women and honestly we just have a little rant about it 535 01:04:49,470 --> 01:04:54,870 now and then because that is an understanding and welcoming space where we're not going to get. 536 01:04:55,360 --> 01:05:04,409 They were just trying to be nice responses. I think also it's about kindness and this is something I've had to learn, 537 01:05:04,410 --> 01:05:10,740 is to be kinder to myself and to give myself those days where I go, you know what? 538 01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:19,080 That was horrible and it impacted me. And I need to look after my mental health and I need to use the supports that I've developed. 539 01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:24,330 And actually, it's not a failure if I don't go out today because that impacted me. 540 01:05:24,990 --> 01:05:29,100 So it's about finding the ways that you can be kind to yourself as well. 541 01:05:30,300 --> 01:05:33,330 And I'm, you know, I'm always happy to get around to it. 542 01:05:33,330 --> 01:05:36,450 So if I have the free time, you can always send me a message. 543 01:05:38,820 --> 01:05:43,020 Thank you. Okay. We have a couple of questions along these lines. 544 01:05:43,860 --> 01:05:48,450 Oh, I was uncertain as to which one to pick, but I'm going to choose this one. 545 01:05:49,050 --> 01:05:53,160 Hello, Dr. CAVANAUGH. Thank you so much for this excellent keynote. 546 01:05:53,970 --> 01:06:04,040 I am really enjoying it. I recently trained as an intervener for people with multisensory impairment, deaf blindness. 547 01:06:05,180 --> 01:06:12,919 And one of my activities sorry, one of the activities was knee and blindfolds and ear defenders. 548 01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:20,870 And being a deaf blind child whilst my partner was the teacher, I should say this without emotion, 549 01:06:21,410 --> 01:06:27,530 who had to find a way of conveying a message to me about a new activity we were going to do. 550 01:06:29,530 --> 01:06:35,290 My partner chose going for a walk and saw the activity and chose to give me the 551 01:06:35,290 --> 01:06:40,270 message by making me wear a coat that belonged to a third person in the train. 552 01:06:41,020 --> 01:06:51,430 She just brought the coat and put it on me. I found this so uncomfortable and intrusive that to this day I still cringe when I think about it. 553 01:06:52,180 --> 01:06:59,319 My question is what do you think is the best way forward for practise when working with children 554 01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:05,380 and young people for whom touch and physical proximity is crucial for learning and development? 555 01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,790 That's a very you might want to unpack that, but that's the question. 556 01:07:10,060 --> 01:07:18,880 Thank you. In advance. So my first response and you probably heard the groan was I find simulation of disability and training repellent. 557 01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:26,740 I've actually had the experience of having to go through a training where other people were simulating blindness. 558 01:07:27,340 --> 01:07:35,160 And I was in the room as a blind person or other people simulated blindness with these spectacles and blindfolds and things that they have. 559 01:07:35,860 --> 01:07:45,580 And I had to listen to everyone in the room saying how terrible it was and how awful it was and how grateful they could take the spectacles off. 560 01:07:46,210 --> 01:07:49,900 And it still makes me really upset to this day thinking about it. 561 01:07:50,650 --> 01:08:01,660 And I wish I had the references to Hans, but there have been multiple comprehensive academic studies to show that simulating 562 01:08:01,660 --> 01:08:07,630 disability in any training environment does not impair not proper learning. 563 01:08:08,290 --> 01:08:14,950 What it does routinely is it furthers misunderstanding of disability and it creates fail. 564 01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,270 Like the biggest response people come away with is fear of disablement. 565 01:08:20,440 --> 01:08:27,790 So that's my thought on that. And I think the example given demonstrates exactly why it's not a productive experience. 566 01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,540 There are amazing multi-sensory practitioners. 567 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:38,560 I have had the privilege of working with some multi-sensory practitioners and I personally 568 01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:43,060 in those experiences have favoured what is called a total communication approach, 569 01:08:43,570 --> 01:08:51,520 and that is where you continue to offer every type of communication to somebody to receive information and to respond information. 570 01:08:52,930 --> 01:08:55,209 The big problem with those simulated exercises, 571 01:08:55,210 --> 01:09:01,120 it continues to assume that deaf blind children are totally deaf and totally blind, which is that's quite usual. 572 01:09:02,050 --> 01:09:05,650 Lots of deaf children will have residual vision and or hearing. 573 01:09:06,700 --> 01:09:14,290 And touch when it is the only experience for sensory inputs. 574 01:09:14,300 --> 01:09:17,470 Although like I said, it's rare that you do so sensory inputs. 575 01:09:18,700 --> 01:09:22,480 It is even more important that that touches conceptual. 576 01:09:22,780 --> 01:09:30,940 And from my experience, best practise is about gradually building up connexions between the sensory stimuli and the activity, 577 01:09:31,870 --> 01:09:38,500 and using an object of reference, which is what the exercise is supposed to be. 578 01:09:39,250 --> 01:09:44,110 You do not because it is meaningless. Just shoving a coat on someone is meaningless. 579 01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:49,600 I knew an example where a young person kept being given their shoes and given their shoes as they were going outside. 580 01:09:50,110 --> 01:09:54,490 But there was no connexion ever made between the shoe and the sweetness. 581 01:09:55,360 --> 01:10:01,300 And so someone was just having an object shoved at them with no journey towards that meaning. 582 01:10:01,340 --> 01:10:04,410 And that's what's really important. You all have a thing. 583 01:10:04,420 --> 01:10:10,299 I know that in the UK, Deaf Blind UK has some really good resources. 584 01:10:10,300 --> 01:10:14,680 I know that there's quite a few conferences on multisensory impairment interventions. 585 01:10:15,850 --> 01:10:20,710 And of course the best solution is often talk to a deaf blind adult. 586 01:10:21,370 --> 01:10:25,990 Learn from a deaf blind adults, have a deaf blind adult sleep training who can say, 587 01:10:26,260 --> 01:10:31,300 as a child, people repeatedly shoved the shoe in my face and I have no understanding of why. 588 01:10:32,020 --> 01:10:39,310 So yeah, that would be my my top tip. Go and speak to some excellent deafblind adults advocates who can inform and educate. 589 01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:45,899 Okay. Thank you very much. I'm afraid there's one more question. 590 01:10:45,900 --> 01:10:50,520 And I'm making an arbitrary choice. So arbitrary. 591 01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:56,280 That's your power. I've tried to give you a flavour of the different sorts of questions, and there are questions we won't be able to answer. 592 01:10:56,580 --> 01:11:02,710 And you can decide what to do about that. But. Here's what I want. 593 01:11:02,830 --> 01:11:07,400 Here's one that I think is. A theme that has come up more than once. 594 01:11:07,820 --> 01:11:18,020 I'm wondering if Amy can talk a bit more about how she sees the intersections between disabled activism and other activism, 595 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:27,860 such as black feminist activism. How can those of us in different marginalised groups be useful allies to disabled people? 596 01:11:28,700 --> 01:11:36,800 Well, first of all, I would say that my introduction to disability activism was through black disabled activists, 597 01:11:38,420 --> 01:11:46,490 because black disabled activists, especially in the US, are doing incredible work and hugely important work. 598 01:11:47,570 --> 01:11:55,150 Disability activism is two white, white, middle class people like myself are grossly overrepresented in, 599 01:11:55,360 --> 01:12:01,450 you know, when that inclusion is there, which it really is. It tends to be white, middle class, disabled people. 600 01:12:02,140 --> 01:12:09,610 And I think it is really important that as an activist, I am committed to an intersectional approach. 601 01:12:10,870 --> 01:12:18,519 I am a big champion of trans rights and I'm a huge supporter of Black Lives Matter movement. 602 01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:25,840 And wherever I possibly can, I believe in passing the mic because actually their experience is that I cannot speak to and I don't pretend to. 603 01:12:27,010 --> 01:12:29,829 And I would say I have learnt huge amounts, 604 01:12:29,830 --> 01:12:37,620 especially from what a lot of disability studies theory and theory and kind of the body and consent comes along from, 605 01:12:37,670 --> 01:12:44,499 from feminism and that idea of the public body and access to the public body 606 01:12:44,500 --> 01:12:49,690 has a lot of academic grounding in feminist studies and feminist literature, 607 01:12:50,380 --> 01:12:56,290 which like I have drawn on some, I would say Rosemary Garland Thompson is excellent reading on those intersections 608 01:12:56,290 --> 01:13:00,730 between feminism and disability studies around the body and access to the body. 609 01:13:03,750 --> 01:13:08,760 To be a good ally. I think we just need to just keep talking and just be in the same room. 610 01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:15,390 And because, you know what? Black disabled people exist, disabled women exists, trans disabled people exists. 611 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:24,390 You know, there are so many intersections and overlaps and marginalised communities that should and can uplift and support each other. 612 01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:33,330 Now the one thing that really pisses me off and I will swear because it's appropriate and everyone needs to stop doing it, 613 01:13:34,140 --> 01:13:43,290 is something I see so often in the disability community is for example, when there's a guide dog crashes or so that's my lived experience. 614 01:13:43,290 --> 01:13:49,920 I experience it going to crashes business refuses to let me in and says, Your guide dog can't come in here and they break the law. 615 01:13:51,250 --> 01:13:59,350 And so often all the disabled people will respond to comments like If you were this marginalised group, it wouldn't happen. 616 01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:04,720 If you were black, that wouldn't happen if you were Jewish, that wouldn't happen if you had trends, that wouldn't happen. 617 01:14:05,230 --> 01:14:13,150 And it is a lie and it is offensive and it needs to stop because we are not going to play the oppression Olympics. 618 01:14:13,570 --> 01:14:22,479 We are going to recognise that marginalised people experience intersections of different oppressions that are systematic and individual and it is 619 01:14:22,480 --> 01:14:30,520 not an appropriate comparison and I'm sick of it and it needs to stop because black people get turned away from businesses for the sodding time. 620 01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:40,120 Trans people get turned away from businesses constantly. People face multiple marginalisation and discriminations and acting like disabilities. 621 01:14:40,270 --> 01:14:47,500 So and somewhat pedestal worthy discriminatory experience is [INAUDIBLE] and we need to stop them. 622 01:14:49,730 --> 01:15:00,420 Thank you very much. And now I'd like to pass the microphone over to Caroline Kennedy for the vote of thanks. 623 01:15:00,660 --> 01:15:12,030 Caroline is the Administrator of the Harassment Programme at the Harassment Advisory Programme at the University of Oxford. 624 01:15:12,570 --> 01:15:15,450 Caroline. Yes. 625 01:15:15,450 --> 01:15:27,510 I was honoured to be asked to be given the this evening's vote of thanks on behalf of the Disability Advisory Group and the Equity Interest Team, 626 01:15:27,660 --> 01:15:36,360 which I work within. Amy touched on so many things that I hear in my work running the Harassment Advisory 627 01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:41,550 Service and in my role as an advisor in the Sexual Violence Support Service. 628 01:15:43,110 --> 01:15:46,260 Consent. Disempowerment. Control. 629 01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:52,290 Inconvenient truth. And the cost of speaking up and expressing your. 630 01:15:52,320 --> 01:16:01,380 Your boundaries. So firstly, I just want to say thank you to Kathryn Walter and Sarah Stephenson Hunter for making this event happen. 631 01:16:02,790 --> 01:16:07,380 They they worked so hard to bring this to its conclusion. 632 01:16:08,100 --> 01:16:16,020 So thank you to them both. Thank you to the ABC, who did try to open the events and to join us. 633 01:16:16,020 --> 01:16:21,780 But Zoom had other plans. But finally, I'd like to thank you, Amy. 634 01:16:22,350 --> 01:16:25,710 Your talk was personal, powerful. 635 01:16:26,100 --> 01:16:29,160 And you? I think there's enough words to describe how wonderful it was. 636 01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:34,440 But I think also you empowered us as bystanders. 637 01:16:36,570 --> 01:16:46,620 You gave us the tools and the tips and tricks on how we can be better to lessen that emotional labour. 638 01:16:48,450 --> 01:16:52,770 And I think you've created lots of champions tonight. 639 01:16:53,910 --> 01:17:08,700 So I want to thank you so much for giving up your time to talk to us and for sharing your experience, but also how we can be better bystanders. 640 01:17:08,850 --> 01:17:11,969 So thank you, Amy. Thank you so much. 641 01:17:11,970 --> 01:17:16,620 It's been an absolute privilege and I'm always online to carry on these conversations. 642 01:17:16,620 --> 01:17:20,610 And if you want to send me a summary of those questions, I'll answer those that I can. 643 01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:31,790 That's wonderful. Thank you very much, Amy. And that's extremely generous of you to offer to answer the questions. 644 01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:36,530 I will send you I will send you a summary. 645 01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:47,540 And it just remains for all of us to be immensely grateful that we have a sibling like you to help show us the way. 646 01:17:48,380 --> 01:17:52,130 Many, many thanks. And to all of you, a good evening.