1 00:00:04,770 --> 00:00:11,730 [Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.] Hello, everybody, and good evening. Very pleased to speak to you and very proud to be part of this circle. 2 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:22,050 I would like to inform you that this is a recorded presentation, as I'm on a ship and the connection is not stable enough. 3 00:00:22,710 --> 00:00:26,910 I try to join you by live phone after this presentation. 4 00:00:32,550 --> 00:00:44,520 So when I started to work for Franck Goddio in 1998, I discovered the harbour of Alexandria with a rather romantic idea. 5 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:50,610 And when I did my first dive, I was really surprised. 6 00:00:50,820 --> 00:00:58,140 I was used to dive in the lakes of northern Germany with bad visibility, I thought. 7 00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:04,890 But Alexandria was really something that was similar, if not much worse from the visibility. 8 00:01:05,340 --> 00:01:13,920 So the first challenge for an underwater photographer over there would be to cope with the lack of visibility, 9 00:01:14,490 --> 00:01:21,780 with the constant change of the elements and the algae blooms and the introduction of human, 10 00:01:22,380 --> 00:01:30,120 sewage, etc. and to be able to make images that are able to talk. 11 00:01:41,150 --> 00:01:49,370 So in the beginning, we had these major objects in the harbour to picture in a way that would be rather iconic and, 12 00:01:49,970 --> 00:02:00,440 give a visualisation to what archaeology can be, a visual idea of what underwater archaeology can be. 13 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:09,200 Not only from the scientific point of view, and also from the human adventure that it is with the constant encounter with the past. 14 00:02:09,830 --> 00:02:15,350 You are confronted to situations which are sometimes surrealist, 15 00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:22,850 settings which can be just, you know, like a glimpse of a short moment where you just see 16 00:02:23,510 --> 00:02:30,290 a reality that appears only for you as a privileged diver, because these objects are, of course, 17 00:02:30,290 --> 00:02:38,839 not eternal and might be retrieved or researched much more. Then we can see here 18 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:44,930 the silicone mouldings, which let speak the hieroglyphs. 19 00:02:45,470 --> 00:02:50,180 The method that we use underwater to make these silicone mouldings. 20 00:02:51,470 --> 00:02:58,490 So, the documentation of what's going on is part of my job, my daily job in an excavation. 21 00:02:58,490 --> 00:03:04,280 And also I would say - with the words of Franck Goddio - that's the memory of the mission. 22 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:12,350 So it's a quite big responsibility to be everywhere and at the same time nowhere. 23 00:03:12,830 --> 00:03:21,110 I mean you would try to pull out of the image and not be present, not do too much personal 24 00:03:21,650 --> 00:03:27,469 interpretation of the situation, but just catch what's happening in the very moment. 25 00:03:27,470 --> 00:03:34,520 This moment with the ring, for example, was quite magic for me 26 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,520 to picture. But it's just a fraction of a second when the picture is really good. 27 00:03:40,940 --> 00:03:45,890 So, that's a lot of trial and error, of course, with the harsh conditions. 28 00:03:46,490 --> 00:03:54,620 But, to resume, the first encounter with the situation in Alexandria for me was like 29 00:03:54,620 --> 00:04:00,380 having a new piece of science to visualise. 30 00:04:06,290 --> 00:04:10,320 What's also interesting are some methods that need to be invented. 31 00:04:10,340 --> 00:04:16,520 For example, we have the stratigraphy, which is really deep. We have to find solutions how to picture it. 32 00:04:17,060 --> 00:04:26,660 And so, basically it's stitched photography that we use to obtain the information. Because as you imagine, 33 00:04:26,660 --> 00:04:30,320 in a small hole like this, the visibility is not very good. 34 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:39,200 And you cannot have enough space to photograph this kind of information, whith 35 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:48,529 these archaeological layers that you see here going over 2.5 to 3 metres or even more and to get them in a picture. 36 00:04:48,530 --> 00:04:56,200 So it's stitched photography or mosaic photography, which is a 2D form of photogrammetry. 37 00:04:56,210 --> 00:05:01,330 We will come to that later. So here you see the stratigraphy, 38 00:05:01,340 --> 00:05:10,580 I think from 2010 and it was really a nice situation with that diver holding the decametre. 39 00:05:13,540 --> 00:05:20,500 So what I found also very exciting and fascinating was the proximity of the Corniche. 40 00:05:20,650 --> 00:05:24,430 Sometimes you work like ten metres from the shoreline, 41 00:05:24,430 --> 00:05:28,390 and you have people sitting there and watching you even when you come out of the water. 42 00:05:28,750 --> 00:05:32,950 And just below that, there this antique pavement and just the place. 43 00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:36,310 That was also the occasion to make one of my first photomosaics. 44 00:05:37,180 --> 00:05:45,780 Getting to the Island of Antirhodos. There is a particular image that I would like to share with you, which is the scenery of a priest, 45 00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:53,160 and two spinxes and some columns re-erected where they were found on the pavement of that antique island. 46 00:05:53,700 --> 00:06:02,010 The challenge was to wait for the water to become clear, to set up the whole construction, 47 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:07,650 I would say, before doing the actual photo, which was done on film. 48 00:06:07,890 --> 00:06:17,460 No digital preview possible. So everything was planned in theory, executed, and then I got the result once I was back in Europe. 49 00:06:17,970 --> 00:06:26,910 Instead of using just normal camera and strobes, the classical underwater photographer's set up, I would separate 50 00:06:26,910 --> 00:06:35,820 the lamps or the strobes from my camera and trigger them over a long distance through cables and 51 00:06:35,850 --> 00:06:38,850 light cells or slave sensors, as we call them. 52 00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:48,149 There was, for example, one first strobe behind that bigger sphinx, shining on the column and 53 00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:54,600 giving at the same time a silhouette to the sphinx, which would be otherwise just drowning in the dark. 54 00:06:55,890 --> 00:06:59,100 Then, just after that column, behind that column, 55 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:07,799 is the second strobe, which does the same thing, but instead of shining only on the statue, 56 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:14,100 it will also give a light, a counter light and a silhouette to the standing piece of column. 57 00:07:15,210 --> 00:07:21,240 Then there will be another strobe on the left side which will do the same thing. 58 00:07:21,930 --> 00:07:30,810 Indirectly light and give a silhouette. And then behind the statue I put three strobes to get this counter light effect. 59 00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:36,390 So they're basically shining into the sky towards the camera, 60 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:44,370 but their light direction is stopped by something in the way before the lens. 61 00:07:44,370 --> 00:07:48,209 So there is no particular flare or something happening. 62 00:07:48,210 --> 00:07:51,960 And the light diffuses very well in the murky water. 63 00:07:52,740 --> 00:07:57,480 So, this was a setup which took a long time. 64 00:07:57,490 --> 00:08:04,980 Of course, you cannot do this for any picture, for everything, but it took quite some energy to put the cables to hide the cables. 65 00:08:05,310 --> 00:08:17,610 Part of it is driven over light sensors, which will just activate the strobe once it gets a light impulse from somewhere else. 66 00:08:18,180 --> 00:08:23,240 But, the initial connection from the camera to the whole setup is with the cable. 67 00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:29,960 And you see, there will be a short description of the length, the distances and the flash output power. 68 00:08:29,970 --> 00:08:39,090 That's only for the geeks who might want to know this, but it was quite a scholar setup of slave and cable connected photography. 69 00:08:40,490 --> 00:08:50,330 So I tried to use the murky water as a kind of light diffuser to create this scene and get depth into the image. 70 00:08:53,070 --> 00:09:01,770 This is a Cleopatra VII coin, and the superposition of maybe 20 coins like that, 71 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,220 which all give the same shape, which is quite interesting. 72 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:12,030 Here we go to restoration. Restoration is a big part of my job. 73 00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:15,329 Also to visualise the different steps. 74 00:09:15,330 --> 00:09:17,130 What is going on with the artefacts? 75 00:09:17,580 --> 00:09:26,370 Tell it to a general public and also follow the artefacts through their entire story once they are retrieved. 76 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:35,640 Sometimes it can be very pleasing to follow an object because it completely changes shape. 77 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:47,040 And sometimes the object loses a little bit of his charm, when you just clean it and it just gets like the average artefact. 78 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,780 The concretion is always something interesting when you find something. 79 00:09:51,780 --> 00:09:59,340 So it can be important to take a picture of the concreted object before restoration. 80 00:09:59,590 --> 00:10:06,270 Studio photography is also one of the jobs here. My two assistants doing one of these catalogue productions. 81 00:10:06,750 --> 00:10:10,800 And I follow these objects from the water 82 00:10:11,490 --> 00:10:15,210 right until the museum, into the exhibitions. 83 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:24,960 It can turn out to be a real advantage to know the objects from below the sea and from restoration process, 84 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:30,810 because then you really know how to light them and how to picture them best. 85 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:42,150 Now we will drive from Alexandria to Aboukir Bay, which is a few hours ride with Princess Duda. 86 00:10:42,690 --> 00:10:48,870 And there we are in the open sea. And it's really different conditions, particularly for underwater photography. 87 00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:50,460 It's rougher. 88 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:59,700 There are waves, there can be sand storms that are coming, things floating within our excavation area, from the Nile. 89 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:09,150 And there are these murky waters that can mix spontaneously and change visibility within a few minutes. 90 00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:18,360 So here you see the encounter of clear and murky water, sometimes it rolls in from the Nile Delta, 91 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:26,420 like a 40 centimetre high wave, just the murky water going over the other, it's also different temperatures. 92 00:11:26,430 --> 00:11:30,989 So we have a thermocline, a chemocline, maybe even with the Nile waters. 93 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:37,740 And you have the sediments that might come in from the Nile, and then you have seasonal 94 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:43,350 influences also, which all make it very difficult to predict the visibility that you have. 95 00:11:43,650 --> 00:11:49,410 Generally we can say, in the last years, the visibility has been quite good. 96 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:55,860 We just come back from a mission where we had no visibility at all for two months, because of dredging work going on. 97 00:11:55,870 --> 00:11:59,430 So it's unpredictable. And the game is still the same: 98 00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:08,430 Play with the murky water, play with the mystery, the foggy situation that we find on the bottom of the sea. 99 00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:19,630 So the walls of Canopus were something we all discovered from 1999 on. 100 00:12:20,170 --> 00:12:27,900 And somehow also a challenge to photograph because it was not a consistent piece that I could picture. 101 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:36,220 So, as we all know, with the liquefaction events and the "fast clay" how several call it today, 102 00:12:36,610 --> 00:12:45,370 there is dramatic events going on, but there's also some things preserved in a way that you rarely encounter in other situations, 103 00:12:45,370 --> 00:12:52,160 like these footprints of animals that you find there, just as if there would have been there a few hours before you. 104 00:12:52,180 --> 00:12:55,900 So even it's 1.500 or 2.000 years ago. 105 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:03,010 So here's an image of a Noria under best conditions with a fisheye lens. 106 00:13:03,010 --> 00:13:05,499 So the best you could see, it's only a few metres. 107 00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:12,670 And then we introduced photogrammetry, which is basically stitched photography in order to get more visibility. 108 00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:17,380 We apply this technique to nearly everything today. 109 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:24,820 And it gives an overview which is neutral, which has the advantage of allowing us to go back in time. 110 00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:34,600 I will have a few words about that later. Here is a TW4 piece of wall, 100m long and 50m in an L-form. 111 00:13:35,770 --> 00:13:43,210 One of the early photogrammetries in 2003, within that area was found the Neilos bust. 112 00:13:43,930 --> 00:13:51,999 Very nice object. And as one of these objects, as I told you before, that I followed for years and rediscovered in the exhibition. 113 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:58,270 The moment when I saw it in the water was really short and it was really a precious moment. 114 00:13:58,270 --> 00:14:07,320 So even if you do just, you know, a few clicks, but the moment you retrieve an object or you take it out of the water, it's just a change of everything. 115 00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:17,560 The mystery is maybe not gone, but it's different. So an object underwater is still a privilege to discover and to see, as a photographer. 116 00:14:22,010 --> 00:14:33,080 Now you will see a few situations and images from excavations that should talk for themselves, and I just let them roll without comment. 117 00:15:27,810 --> 00:15:36,209 So in 2014, there was a very particular meteorological event which caused clear water and visibility. 118 00:15:36,210 --> 00:15:44,210 Incredible, maybe a bit low temperature, but there was nearly ten metre visibility and we were in Canopus. 119 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:52,770 That was really spectacular. And I used that to photograph nearly anything I could in a few days. 120 00:15:53,310 --> 00:16:03,210 For example, this big column, which is about six metres, the longest found in Canopus, you will see the advantage of photogrammetry here. 121 00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:12,060 You just get it all in one view, what you don't see in classic photos, and you have the neutral perspective. 122 00:16:12,630 --> 00:16:19,950 So that is one thing that we develop currently, in a very aggressive way, using photogrammetry. 123 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:38,120 The beginnings of Thonis-Heracleion and the discovery was a shocking event for me. 124 00:16:38,140 --> 00:16:44,560 I first thought these statues are artefacts of a robbery that fell from a ship, 125 00:16:44,650 --> 00:16:55,990 but no, we soon discovered that there was a sunken city below, and it was a challenge to capture these early moments because things 126 00:16:55,990 --> 00:17:02,330 were just found in situation and cleaned a little bit to be able to identify. 127 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,840 Like here, the Hapy statue lying face down and then, being puzzled 128 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:16,410 to find pieces that go together and things that might be in relationship before lifting them. 129 00:17:16,420 --> 00:17:25,000 So, they then decided to bring a big barge, I think like a 500 square metre floating barge, 130 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:35,560 to lift all these new colossal statues, etc. that appeared to be lifted. 131 00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:45,129 And that created very interesting situations because we had these statues being assembled first under the water due to the light weight, 132 00:17:45,130 --> 00:17:54,850 it's much less dangerous and better for the artefact to see how it fits together under the water before being lifted to that big platform. 133 00:17:55,510 --> 00:18:03,280 And that was also the occasion for this particular picture, which is my favourite of the Sunken Cities project. 134 00:18:03,850 --> 00:18:11,589 With Hapy standing in the dark and watching us divers like: "Hey, what are you doing to me? 135 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:15,010 What is it I am to expect from you now?" 136 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:24,460 Or looking to the surface, to a new future, to a new life because that statue has travelled the world with the others. 137 00:18:24,910 --> 00:18:33,790 There were some key moments for us as a team to be documented and also some very, 138 00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:44,049 exciting decisions to be taken fast, in order to dispose the objects correctly on the barge. 139 00:18:44,050 --> 00:18:51,850 At that time, there was no drone or so. Here for example, you will follow the story of this stela, 140 00:18:51,850 --> 00:19:01,540 the stela from Heracleion, the big stela, and you follow an object, you assemble it in the water. 141 00:19:01,540 --> 00:19:05,140 Divers try to find the missing pieces. 142 00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:12,670 And during the mission, the pieces were assembled on that barge, and also the colossal statues. 143 00:19:12,670 --> 00:19:21,370 So finally it became like an image that was constructed. An image that 144 00:19:22,210 --> 00:19:30,210 we were not knowing when we started it, how this could be later, in the final result. 145 00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:37,480 So there was this puzzle on the barge going on. And I remember the last day Franck told me, you must shoot this now because we have good conditions. 146 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:44,230 And I went up on this old swinging crane in the morning, low sun. 147 00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:47,680 And then we shot these pictures on the platform. 148 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,659 And it was magic. 149 00:19:49,660 --> 00:19:59,920 It was really a very good souvenir at the end of the mission to have succeeded in getting the big picture. And yeah, 150 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:05,560 then following an object like, for example, of that stela, first contact with the public. 151 00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:16,450 And then this travel from Aboukir to the place in Alexandria where the objects would be watered. 152 00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:22,209 With some trucks. That was a memorable event 153 00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:29,860 also, to get from Aboukir to Alexandria and then the watering. That's all shot in one day. 154 00:20:29,860 --> 00:20:42,730 Just the whole procedure from getting the objects from the ship into the storage. And then begins a whole new chapter, 155 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:52,090 which is totally separated from the sea, from divers and also from the photographer. Because sometimes I won't see the object for years. 156 00:20:52,810 --> 00:21:02,830 Then comes an exhibition project and the stuff travels to Europe and just see it in a well lit environment and a vitrine, 157 00:21:02,830 --> 00:21:05,590 and it's all very clean around, 158 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:12,820 and you can just look at it from every side and you don't need a clark or a crane to move things around to see them from all sides. 159 00:21:13,090 --> 00:21:17,770 So that's quite a magic to rediscover the objects in the exhibition. 160 00:21:18,370 --> 00:21:25,329 And which was also the occasion, regularly, for some documentation imagery 161 00:21:25,330 --> 00:21:30,910 of the whole museographic work that has been done around these objects. 162 00:21:40,990 --> 00:21:46,940 So finally, when you discover the objects in the exhibition, 163 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:54,670 that can bring up memories, but also, makes you understand how short are these moments that we 164 00:21:55,390 --> 00:22:04,090 discover them under the water and how much we don't know when we are down there, when we discover an object. 165 00:22:04,090 --> 00:22:10,780 I speak for myself, I mean, I have to photograph objects sometimes, as they are where they are without really knowing, 166 00:22:11,230 --> 00:22:15,670 where to emphasise and what's so important because it's just new. 167 00:22:15,820 --> 00:22:19,660 So that's a little bit the challenge that comes with the object. 168 00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:49,180 So let's get back to Thonis-Heracleion in the Bay of Aboukir where Franck is waiting for us on Princess Duda. 169 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:58,719 It's a place where throughout the years, there's some iconic imagery, 170 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,090 which resumes a little bit the adventure of underwater archaeology and the magic moments. 171 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:11,950 And one of the magic moments is when an object comes out of the clay, because it's very often perfectly preserved. 172 00:23:11,950 --> 00:23:23,440 And if you see this oil lamp, for example, the smoke, this is just floating clay that comes out of the lamp. 173 00:23:23,980 --> 00:23:28,290 And so it's literally smoking and it comes alive. 174 00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:35,110 For me, this is like a magic picture, but it's not 100% planned. 175 00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:46,570 This is also something with a lot of luck. There's some situations during the excavations where the magic really acts immediately. 176 00:23:48,990 --> 00:24:00,240 Here you have a group of coins. A monetary treasure, and you have the diver retrieving pieces of it that are stuck together, putting it in a bag. 177 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:08,760 And this is also the occasion to have some hints to, you know, what we all imagine about treasure and so on. 178 00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:18,270 But the real life of coins only starts once they are on the boat and ordered and cleaned. 179 00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:22,290 And then when it goes to numismatic inquiry. 180 00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:29,800 The excavation methods and actions also can give 181 00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:38,170 some images and some situations which document a little bit the hard piece of work which is underwater archaeology. 182 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:46,719 And it's maybe something that few of us know, but it's a very delicate operation. 183 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,790 And it's centimetre by centimetre. It is not just sucking away the sediments. 184 00:24:51,790 --> 00:24:57,370 Those of you who dive and who have done digs all know it, but it's a delicate procedure. 185 00:24:57,580 --> 00:25:01,959 And every square metre that is uncovered is hard work. 186 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:13,030 And I try to be a witness of that and also do a correct image of the final excavation and conserve something of the work of my colleagues, 187 00:25:13,030 --> 00:25:19,900 which is an important achievement, I think, in any excavation that we do. 188 00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:40,959 Getting to the objects during excavation, having them in their original situation, is a particular challenge. 189 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:47,330 Because it stops the operation very often when they have to wait for the photographer. 190 00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:51,280 So again, you have to be everywhere and at the same time nowhere. 191 00:25:52,290 --> 00:26:01,410 It's a very short moment when an object is discovered, and very often it needs to be retrieved because it's just for the sake of the object. 192 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,179 And several objects are restored on board. 193 00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:11,310 Let's look at this Aphrodite statue, for example, before and after. 194 00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:17,700 And the state before is only preserved through photography, otherwise it would be lost. 195 00:26:29,850 --> 00:26:37,290 We still go to work with normal cameras and a compass at hand and walk over the seabed. 196 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,430 So what about the future of underwater photography? 197 00:26:41,580 --> 00:26:44,720 I believe it will become more and more important. 198 00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:48,900 This is a classic set up, the tripod with a panoramic camera. 199 00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:54,240 This is how to photograph an object on a grid. If you would go vertical, 200 00:26:54,270 --> 00:26:56,700 you would then shoot a mosaic, maybe. 201 00:26:56,970 --> 00:27:06,780 Nowadays, we do it digital and with overlapping images and computer software, we get to 3D models that we can then explore in 2D or 3D. 202 00:27:07,770 --> 00:27:15,450 And this is basically what I apply to most of the recent excavations in the Nile Delta. 203 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,510 This wreck 43, ship 11. 204 00:27:23,130 --> 00:27:28,410 And now we see the scooter camera that I used for the mosaic of ship 11. 205 00:27:29,660 --> 00:27:35,450 Set up of an underwater propeller with a camera and some strobes. 206 00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:46,910 This is shot on wreck 17, and there will be a short film by my colleague Roland Savoye, who photographed me during mosaicking the wreck 17. 207 00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:51,100 So you can see the really bad conditions that we had, and this is rather good. 208 00:27:51,110 --> 00:28:01,130 So I would say this was filmed on a good day. There are several lines I would either swim or do with the scooter, 209 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:07,310 and change the distances in order to have different resolutions available for calculation, 210 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:16,010 if it's a smaller object. If it's a big object, I cannot allow myself to do several trials or so. 211 00:28:16,010 --> 00:28:29,270 It's just a one-off. So this is a short clip that I made from H1, two excavation campaigns in 2015 and 2016. 212 00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:33,550 And you can see what photogrammetry can do. 213 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:41,690 It's just getting three dimensional information about a site, preserved for posterity. 214 00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:51,950 And I think, this is also what we will see more and more in the future by terms of virtual fieldwork, 215 00:28:52,760 --> 00:29:01,700 to be able to virtually dive on these locations and look much more in depth than we might have the time to do when we are underwater. 216 00:29:07,820 --> 00:29:11,600 Thank you very much. I'm now available for questions. 217 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:24,200 That's a fabulous presentation, that shows the great history of the excavation with images that I've never seen before of some of them. 218 00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:32,880 So thank you very much. My first question, though, is has your job 219 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:42,360 as a photographer got more difficult as we've moved into the sort of the digital age or do you think it's just changed a little. 220 00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:56,660 It has changed a lot. I mean, before I could take 3 or 4, sometimes 5 housings and double quantity of strobes into the water. 221 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,190 But then there was only one film per camera and that was it. 222 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:11,510 So, in the first years, I had to wait really to see the results, for after the mission, after developing in a serious laboratory. 223 00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:17,450 And then we developed on location also, it was much more magic. 224 00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:25,830 I don't think that the way of making images has changed, 225 00:30:25,850 --> 00:30:30,259 but nowadays a photographer is also like a graphist, of course we do this, 226 00:30:30,260 --> 00:30:40,460 photogrammetry, which is also micro bathymetry, which is also cartography, which has a lot of information plus than before. 227 00:30:41,030 --> 00:30:50,030 So, but at the same time, I think that's a good challenge. It gives also another sense to photography, more than just the subjective image. 228 00:30:50,030 --> 00:30:57,860 So it has to become a technology that is, I would say, indispensable for the daily work. 229 00:30:58,430 --> 00:31:06,079 Yeah. And do you think that therefore, as we move more towards photogrammetry, do you think some of the art has gone out of photography, 230 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,660 or do you feel that there is still room to create those amazing images? 231 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,639 There's still room. Yes. Of course. And, now is the advantage that 232 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:26,460 you can see a little bit. You can experiment. You can see underwater what is going on. But still, 233 00:31:26,530 --> 00:31:32,800 sometimes I regret the days of film because it was just a little bit more tickling when you, 234 00:31:33,070 --> 00:31:37,450 you know, you shot and you had to really think about what you were doing. 235 00:31:37,450 --> 00:31:41,979 Now it's a little bit more free. You can experiment. You can, you know, also do the impossible. 236 00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:51,760 That was not possible on film. And sometimes you just stop when the memory cards are full, or when the batteries are empty or when the tank is empty. 237 00:31:52,270 --> 00:31:55,569 That rarely happened before. You had 35 images, 238 00:31:55,570 --> 00:32:04,390 36 or 37 on one film, five cameras, you could get to something like, 150, maybe 200 pictures in a dive. 239 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:11,709 And that was much. And now you can can go up to 5,000 if the equipment is in consequence. 240 00:32:11,710 --> 00:32:19,540 So it's totally different from the perspective and the options and the freedom of action. 241 00:32:19,540 --> 00:32:24,160 So you have to limit yourself to what's really reasonable and what is needed for the job. 242 00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:33,460 Absolutely. Does does anybody else in the audience have questions that you might have for Christoph. 243 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,970 Sorry. I was asking you if anybody in the audience have the questions for you. 244 00:32:41,030 --> 00:32:47,670 Okay. There seems to be nobody at the moment. 245 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,600 So in that case, 246 00:32:54,620 --> 00:33:00,100 sorry, there is Linda. Would you like to.. 247 00:33:00,110 --> 00:33:04,070 Hi Christoph, can you hear me? Yes. 248 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,050 When photography was introduced into archaeology, a long time ago, 249 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:17,450 it was assumed that it would give a more neutral and objective view of the excavation process. 250 00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:23,090 In a way that drawing wouldn't, because drawing has to be interpreted. 251 00:33:23,570 --> 00:33:31,160 But it seems to me that the advantages of what you do also carry those same 252 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:37,290 limitations in that you are constantly adjusting for different conditions. 253 00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:42,570 How much do you think you are interpreting even the most sort of 254 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,390 working shot of a ship, for instance. 255 00:33:47,660 --> 00:33:56,150 And how much can you say it is actually objective record given problems with visibility, for example? 256 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,200 Could you just repeat the last 20s I was cut? 257 00:34:09,670 --> 00:34:12,820 I'm not sure what the last 20s are, but I think it's. 258 00:34:13,450 --> 00:34:20,770 For instance, I'm thinking of a... It's about that interpretation. 259 00:34:20,780 --> 00:34:26,680 You asked me if this technology gives us space for interpretation. 260 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,730 Yes. And does it reduce the objective quality of the image? 261 00:34:32,170 --> 00:34:39,970 Given that you have to change it to mitigate the problems of differing visibilities, for example. 262 00:34:43,860 --> 00:34:55,560 Yes, of course, I adapt and I try to find like a common denominator for a colour code. 263 00:34:56,010 --> 00:34:58,560 The water colour changes constantly. 264 00:34:58,980 --> 00:35:06,510 And sometimes the question is, is it better to have a totally green image, or do I try to find the initial colours? 265 00:35:06,930 --> 00:35:15,300 And if you call that an interpretation, I would say that's the advantage of using the technology to get to a more informative result. 266 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:23,610 But I would say the subjective view is always there as soon as you take your camera. 267 00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:29,160 Not so for photogrammetry, because that's totally mechanical. 268 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:35,099 Of course, the result is heavily depending on the quality of the work 269 00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:40,770 in the water. I would say, how to move, how to take the pictures in which angle, 270 00:35:40,770 --> 00:35:46,829 which distance, which speed, and also to take care about your own behaviour. 271 00:35:46,830 --> 00:35:55,220 when you're on the site, you know, by means of swirling sediments, etc. and, to the strategy how to integrate this into the arch... 272 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:11,410 I think the phone signal has gone out to Christoph. 273 00:36:13,460 --> 00:36:18,200 So just give him a moment the logical process by means of not stopping too much 274 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,430 the progress of the excavation when there are no divers. 275 00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:34,830 Do you hear me? You cut out there for a little while. 276 00:36:35,340 --> 00:36:44,100 Yeah. Sorry. So I think there's always an interpretation for a single image. 277 00:36:44,580 --> 00:36:49,320 It's just a question of what you consider interpretation. 278 00:36:49,680 --> 00:37:00,870 I mean, colour correction yes. But this new technology, of course, is a big advantage, particularly in northern Egypt, where we see nothing. 279 00:37:00,870 --> 00:37:08,879 And it's really the tool to make us, myself included, discover what we are working on since years and how this looks. 280 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:21,110 It wouldn't be possible without taking any technological possibility that the digital world offers us. 281 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:31,890 So we are really using everything. And I told it in the presentation, aggressively, I mean, Franck has his map in the morning, 282 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:38,790 and can tell the divers just where to continue, because it's from the last day before. 283 00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:44,550 So it's less than 24 hours. And I think that's really a wonderful way of working. 284 00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:50,510 To follow the progress of the excavation for everybody. 285 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,230 Also the working divers included, because when they work, as you certainly know, 286 00:37:55,590 --> 00:38:02,220 sometimes they don't see very much of what is happening around, so this is a big advantage for everybody. 287 00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:04,769 So no question. 288 00:38:04,770 --> 00:38:15,540 Of course, the the job has become wider, more complicated, more time-intensive yeah, but that's like everything. 289 00:38:15,540 --> 00:38:19,170 I think it changes with the ongoing technology. 290 00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:25,440 Certainly your space on the boats has been increasingly filled up over 291 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,460 the years with with bigger and bigger and bigger and more powerful computers, 292 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:35,810 as we've gone along. When you get into the water, 293 00:38:35,850 --> 00:38:39,810 are you always looking for to go back to the kind of the artistic side of it? 294 00:38:40,050 --> 00:38:52,740 Are you always thinking of that as an image or do they sort of, you know, just how much planning I suppose I'm going with here, 295 00:38:53,160 --> 00:39:01,370 because the images of the sphinxes and the priest from the temple of Isis, 296 00:39:01,380 --> 00:39:05,700 you know, clearly there was an enormous amount of preparation that went on there. 297 00:39:06,140 --> 00:39:14,730 And so when you're diving, you're always thinking, right, what is the next really good kind of public shot that I can create? 298 00:39:15,060 --> 00:39:19,290 Or is it a much more kind of organic experience than that? 299 00:39:19,950 --> 00:39:28,380 Yes, it is definitely organic. Of course, we have priorities of some objects and some parts of the excavations. 300 00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:34,970 But over the years, there's so many images that I wouldn't like to make again. 301 00:39:34,980 --> 00:39:38,820 They're all already made. I mean, these initial images were very important. 302 00:39:38,820 --> 00:39:50,210 Also give a taste and, you know, an odour to underwater archaeology, which is just beyond objects. 303 00:39:50,220 --> 00:39:53,850 It's just the, you know, that was a big challenge. 304 00:39:53,850 --> 00:40:05,540 But nowadays, I think the challenge is to to use photography in a way that allows to see things that we cannot see normally without photography, 305 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:17,620 it can happen to... Okay. 306 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,950 ...I think is not suitable for photogrammetry. 307 00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:30,940 But if I see the water is clear and I have the excavation, of course, then I go back to the artistic thoughts, you know. 308 00:40:33,180 --> 00:40:38,640 I think we missed part of that answer, Christoph. I think the boat drifted out of internet range slightly. 309 00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:42,090 Well. Thank you. 310 00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:45,810 Does anybody else have have questions? 311 00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:59,450 Well, if not, I'd like to say thank you very much for this. 312 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:06,920 I realise that it's always difficult to kind of find the time to, especially when you're on a project, 313 00:41:06,930 --> 00:41:12,590 you must be incredibly busy at the moment as you're, you know, ten miles offshore. 314 00:41:13,070 --> 00:41:20,270 But so I'm really grateful that you could do this for us tonight, and I'm sure the people, 315 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:26,480 that are listening to this, will thank you as well for what has been an absolutely fabulous presentation. 316 00:41:26,490 --> 00:41:31,190 I've really enjoyed looking at these truly iconic images again. 317 00:41:31,610 --> 00:41:32,930 So thank you very much, Christoph.