So good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to this fourth and final seminar,
both of the Israeli Studies Seminar and the Reconstruct Reconsidering Early Jewish Nationalist Ideology Seminar.
I can't remember if I just said, I'm Peter Bergman, but if I say this side of my age anyway,
today, it's really a pleasure to have two to be able to introduce our speaker,
who's both a friend and colleague, rose there and Rose will be talking to you about age and gender in German language.
Cultural Zionism rose, at the moment, is a DPhil student in theology and religion at the University of Oxford here.
Her thesis is entitled A Homeland in the Home Age, Gender Sorry, the home,
sorry homeland in the Home Age, Gender and Religion in German Cultural Zionism 1890 seven to 19 05.
She previously studied at the University of Chicago Divinity School, and she's published on the life and thought of Pollok,
Winkler Buber and works on other lesser known figures within the German cultural Zionist community.
Rose, it's really a pleasure to have you here. Thanks so much, Peter, and I'm really excited to be here.
So today I'm going to be talking about a cultural Zionist community who are active in Central Europe in the
early years of the 20th century and before giving a little bit of context then about the nature of this group.
I thought I would just stop by kind of flagging the kind of crimes that this taught me something about my husband first.
So what I kind of have to do the next 30 minutes or so is make the case that the two analytical lenses
the state in Genesis are a kind of fruitful approach to studying this cultural Zionist community.
Imperfect because check this out right on the screen. I don't think so.
But OK, it's just popped up, and I was going to ask, you now, think you?
Yes. So I'm hoping to sense that this kind of lens,
this nation centre is a useful way to consider the thought and visual culture of this cultural sense community.
And I have to suggest that by using this kind of Jordans,
it can help us to kind of consummate some kind of individual motifs and ideas that may already be familiar to us to see
ideas unless we do and then can help situate them in this kind of further conceptual context and also suggest that anything
can help to provide the and metaphorical language which is used to kind of express some ideas of central importance to
this community and such as the ability between the kind of collection of these people and individuals living in poverty.
And also, if think about the relationship between the past, the present and future, see this like dual lens information centre.
So as Peter said, I'm in the field accumulating department, and I very much see my research to equated within religious studies.
I also use lots of tools which are drawn from gender studies and particularly when it comes to thinking about conceptual social systems,
like if intentions are constructed and then some of the kind of cool questions that animate when he is thinking about him,
who is written into history or into the present moment,
who has written that were excluded from the basis of these kind of social structures and symbols.
And to kind of use this approach to think about the relationships to in different aspects
of your traditional history which want kind of expressed then sort of making sense in 2010.
And so my talk today of the primary science and senses of visual art,
which were introduced by with disseminated part of this cultural rights community,
and I'm thinking about teaching centre relationships relationship to them and that before turning
to those instances of visual art on the surface and that itself is focuses on this community.
So that sense that this with the democratic election for young U.S. citizens,
I don't give a sign ism and this latter ActionScript and highlights kind of from
the outset the importance of the ideal of useful usefulness to this group.
And they certainly kind of presented themselves as a kind of young generation of kind of rebels within the science community.
And this kind of a good to offering the kind of useful and fact perspective on some broader questions.
The names of democratic elections is generally used to describe them in relation to their role in the development of Zionist Party politics,
and it's often said that there is a kind of fast self-identified faction.
Amongst the science community, the climate is more institutional and scientific,
the activity was undertaken with the greatest investment in the scheme.
And as interesting as this side, this kind of activity was for the kind of development of kind of interest in pro-Zionist politics and the factions.
That's less my focus. I tend to focus more on the work of this group in creating and culture, disseminating its views on literature and exhibitions.
And I really think about the internal logic of the kind of images and even frames they produce.
And on that side of activities and primarily things that people write must include natural cycles, maybe.
So something that was said across all of the members of the community was a real commitment to the central importance of
something in a situation which to them was the kind of absolute prerequisite for any successful future science activities.
And they have the right kind of sense of seriousness. They need to be chief through engagement with huge culture.
And so they set about kind of encouraging the creation, designing soft poetry and literature and sharing this with the broader community.
And then they choose to pick up the fruits next may say at the fit sign as Congress in 1981 kind of
like a parallel to some of the kind of more disruptive activities and in terms of framing himself,
the state as different factions. The answer is something they find interesting and significant pockets of action,
which for them was evidence of the kind of searching and body looks to a chart which was kind of in the process of being created.
And that year, they also established figures like Publishing House to which they continue to put out because in subsequent years,
in terms of really interesting thought and approaches to actions which once again demonstrate that
there were some huge cultural resources that were available and they kind of mobilised towards them.
And that kind of sounds like a cool place. So I think that's enough on the background.
Then there might be some questions to talk about the politics of interest,
but I'll turn now to some of the things you asked and talking a little bit more about motifs.
And we're going to I'm going to try to explain that.
Look and see, that's what.
I hope you can see that and say, hey,
we have some images produced by American flag picked him two examples of the idea of the
male masculinity and thinks there might be of things to make this but but not down.
He suggested that the physical vitality,
strength and discipline that had been evident in kind of ancient history and been suppressed
by the Queen of Hearts and Environmental Conditions to the extent that this kind of relating,
to instance, could be cultivated again and use them in the kind of science, extend that self-determination and working towards design future.
And this idea of like if I might slow down and kind of muscle 18 months been approaching just enough exercises.
That was also a very present feature in the classical music school assignments.
So the companies I find examples of that can really him.
So he on the left hand side firms, maybe even a couple that actually went in front of the computer,
which was the collaboration and associated calms them enough to connect with various Thomson.
And he set out to create some examples of some language.
First, that he sort of tapped into something books and movies, too.
So he thinks that you could use a number of illustrations.
The company extend its policy, and the book was really smart and given assignments press.
You had a lot of good leadership and some 1000 terms about something that he emphasises his firm, his muscular strength.
And also that roughly compelled at the expense of mortality.
So there's repeated descriptions of something that's going through do comparisons with his schemes for use vs. bullet.
And it's kind of the rustic feel that makes one of his moments in his own company
and space and really doesn't focus so much on his subjective encounters,
but instead shows him third and sorry two times you like and kind of demonstrating certain kinds of problematic events and that sort of system.
And as you can see, he's hosting the line with his bare hands.
Speaking of kind of how come up with some physical activity?
That's why some things come to these later times.
The product is another slippery since 1916 as producing illustrations for company time translation of the Bible into German.
And this comes from the story of Medicine's pressing for toughness and my son something.
This medicine is extremely muscular and you have to kind of look at Typekit in the
sense of this comes as a couple of other little pieces of this image of Moses fasted,
which is the crazy. Now you can see he's very close friends or seated fighting clothing,
which is complemented by various accessories, including something that feels so much like peace and strength.
And Ali, Yes, of 20th century took a number of research trips to Palestine and purchased items of clothing, jewellery in markets and pictures,
and got things packed with him and family where he dressed up models in what and kind of
suggested what's the source of what else may feel kind of foreign to most you can think of.
It's gone. And for him, these became some of the symbols of this kind of intimate exercise of something kind of completely mysterious.
So he has been mostly wearing this kind of typical clothing and accessories.
The other notable feature I spotted is that this mechanism of this face is kind of similar to seasonal vaccines.
I mean, people, the every kind of stylised, dark and fluid pointing being so often portrayed that the cult figures for angels have had some space.
And I think there's a couple of things that happen in the streets of some the Sun.
The story we first have to be kind of preaching of a kind of muscularity in general within the political process by placing a person's face in those.
Well, there's an immediate link being drawn between this difficult past and kind of slowly paradigm sensibility and the kind of science.
So at this kind of relationship being drawn between the political past and the science that hasn't with the sense of urgency of the current situation.
This is why this community. To turn to this second image, also in less than two weeks,
we have seen a painting by the WHO believed he wasn't active in any kind of self-identifying as his own needs,
but he must meet socially with the science community.
Los Angeles was a friend of his friends as well.
And he interrupted lots of various meetings, including this one,
and ask him to send to the Pentagon unless he has some kind of poor quality reproduction of the painting has been lost.
Then it was agreed to meet in two or three metres tall and have 3000 cousins and the dark past that was the bottom left.
That would have been a kind of deep blue representation of the body of water.
And in the image that we have found harmony after the expulsion from paradise, walking towards this body of water and placing his left hand,
perhaps to the horizons beyond unnecessarily helping clean up with some Typekit its age.
Unlike some well-known Christian depictions of the explosion that Adam and Eve not Sentosa,
the longtime glitz of expressing the kind of saying about the conditions that stand tall and straight looking head and like millions and drawings,
we have advanced a kind of paradigm with this grim muscularity to slaps on the right hand side,
which was a study for this thinking that shows a little bit more detail of the kind of sickness inside his neck.
And so he's not significant. I think to him, as well as having the strength of muscularity, is the contrast between Adam's figure.
And he's and I haven't found any examples of where the weaknesses of women sometimes being painted with fortune with the same degree of muscularity,
testimony Simmons. This is quite typical of depictions of women who see something so masculine as being quite light,
feminine, capacious with them kind of non-threatening.
Seen some of the sense that you might talk from cancer coming back to the kind of centre things in a little while.
But for the moment, I just want to say a few examples of some of the different models of rage which
were exhibited or published in conjunction with these images of kind of masculine,
youthful vitality. So we have here a few paintings from the series produced by the artist who was a
little bit older and not socially integrated to the community in the same way.
So that was an evidence statement that was repeatedly to in their publications.
And it seems to them to be full take place inside the house and some of the buildings.
And typically, it shows kind of relatively dark and kind of gloomy internal spaces, which are often kind of contrasted to snatches of bright colours.
The grassy place goes to the windows,
which kind of set kind of poetry of the paintings and such as an investment painting snap not first light from the outside.
Some of the residents of these houses are always kind of separated from that kind of frantic sunlight,
and they're instead portrayed within these spaces,
typically with kind of their bodies hunched over their faces, sometimes on the types of paintings that we have here.
Some typical series pastimes,
like when when he comes out in the world and really kind of exhibits some things looks kind of suffering loneliness, poor health coldness.
And this kind of portrays a picture of this town.
This community is suffering through some kind of an uncomfortable form of existence.
I'm hearing a couple more examples from the series,
which seems very much mostly to do with this religious practise in Bittrex Global, on the right and on the left.
The most famous image from the series, which is kind of a relatively young man and his hair is what his face kind of
seems to be this kind of young or middle-aged man sitting next to a stool,
which means opponents in the field and victims families and teachers little practise.
And the title of this painting listening to old people sounds to me has a couple of residents resonances.
On the one hand, it's a gesture to explain the needs of security people, but it's also, I think,
describes the bodily condition that she shares with the other members of the community.
And I think this is crucial. It's not just the elderly members of the community in Israel's paintings who
exhibit some of the physical frailties associated with those being hunched over,
looking through and so forth. It's also younger and younger, many.
And so I think the kind of association of premature sages this country extends across the whole group and begins to really
associate pixelate existence for life in these types of Jewish communities and as somehow kind of physically compromising,
especially when these marriages are set in contrast to the kind of useful fatalities the
typical figures of the paradigms $17 billion to be a strong situation for six months,
which can come into play to other forms of bodily frailty.
To turn now to a few examples of paintings and drawings, which takes on trust within a single frame of the individuals,
and we have to see great moments even increase confidence that Science Congress can produce.
Finally, sometimes its forms one of the momentous images that with the same composition of structures,
so intelligence images on the bottom left hand corner. We have an old man, Representative Professor Clay,
typically with within the this with the same sound turned off in this kind of
stuff coming round him and Sullivan circling Fox Network in the coming days,
representing some.
And so you have to present some images from the series to exotic representatives and contrasted to very simple of the science fiction and these poor
people that they have been writing songs and then some other indication of something that represented this that is kind of silenced for future.
We have a small speaker walking into the distance with cattle,
and it's clear that this figures splitting is much broader and stronger than this man in the bottom left hand corner.
And he was in the bottom left. He seems unwilling or unable to find discuss to the future despite being punched in the southeast.
So just to share a few of the images from this series, we have been enjoying my smile.
And despite being so,
the science is again kind of composition made from the people on the right hand side of the piece that he has to say sometimes summit.
In the distance on the right, we have the Old City of Jerusalem on a hill and in front of that,
that's a great concern to use these kind of physical vitality incidents,
such as the kind of smart contracts to assign static and deep amongst the green Panopto.
You can see there's one young man passing settlements and exhibits the same kind of typical goodness and less
nasty you seen in drawings and with him on a group of women from team dancing together like you have to go along.
Sometimes things get moving on a kind of peaceful exuberance and bodily nature to contrast to think of, as well as a consultant to the same future.
And just briefly, in last one from this moment where he said if he saw muscular things,
we just have the simple fact doing science on dispersants, on how to be sensitive to the suffering,
the circular conversation we started to Dark Precipice and the helix towards the air with his Teflon from his own students
coming around in front of his parents and Sphinx seats offering two rounds with Jewish communities separated from government.
And to turn now to another painting, which puts differently aged men and women improve conjunction of contrast with one another.
And then this is another painting study from the painting series like in and which showed the two figures looking towards the
40th water as the pale white band in the background of this picture and thinking indicates some kind of body of water simple,
which in this case is going to be visible to the penis as well.
And the group of men and women in this instance organised into three distinct men to approach each Clemente to the water horizon,
and that's the closest to us as that means we have three elder figures.
He's 40, so he's facing two insults towards the side and two men and women.
On the other side of the different kind of closer to the water with younger men and women whose bodies tend towards the water horizon and the
sadness which you can quite see the closest to the water still found as a young child whose face is visible just beneath the rice and trees,
and he's the kind of most peaceful member of this community is an accessory to the.
And then juxtaposing many different ages, as I mentioned before, the lighting,
serious paintings and who gets what I think is quite this is the interpretation of this image,
which suggests some of the ways that paintings like this were some kind of things found in the science community.
So I'm going to say this nonsense. And some not to this fast, this is just a few studies.
So there's a bit more detail that needs paint to the kind of page related quality limitations on this and then.
Yes, he comes back to Visa. He does a few things men and women as contemporary,
but rather as representatives of different moments with history and kind of use this
scene as kind of the cross-section of Jewish history as intense as you can see,
Chris. These people are the entire Jewish people, and this evening is its entire history.
And so he off as a kind of systematic reflection on some of the different men and women in this painting.
And to kind of expound upon the position of history and bodily condition without any treatment of
conditions represents sort of said to examples of that the nice to the man in the far right side.
I get the sense with his elbows resting on his legs,
he's expected to be somewhat submissive motif whose face is blinded him to the entire course of his fate.
He expects everything from God's hand, his hands to finally practise only once.
I mean, you can't say, Oh, the man, he's been associated on multiple levels with.
That kind of pious inactivity suggests in his analysis and does not have a role in this moment.
But it's representative of the kind of bygone era when in reality,
it is not based on guns and the kind of 1950 old man's hands and kind of showed the kind of multiple weapons that he
uses to draw this association that functions this man's hands on equal to find its act and build the science teacher.
Not because this man is old. His hands don't have the same strength.
This is the kind of younger people in this image to cross the street to with his hands.
That goes because he uses the to.
This is the kind of blurring of the lines between paint, and it's kind of primitive inactivity and inseparable, I think, in his account.
It's going to take a different contrast. We have the man next to him.
He's younger and get the sense that this man young demonstrates both his frequent gazing
sensibilities to finance to music and struggles to see freedom and strength feature.
And so this man serves as a kind of cynical counterpart to the old man, he says.
Opposite embraces his physical ability and his kind of FaceTime to him to work towards the future.
And I think this is quite difficult for them. Sensed encountering this community.
Some Zionist account was a movement between this period and this moment, as it was to the kind of youths who need to find some kind of trust.
Trappings of older age looks like typical of mysteries of history.
And so I think that perhaps much of what I have set up until this point is that it is broadly similar insofar as it is
a common trip to root motifs associated with science activism and the science teacher within biblical ancient church,
and to find new paradigms for Zionism within and chapters of Jewish history.
And in so doing, to kind of skip over the course of history is not necessarily fostering paradigms and kind of what's useful for science enterprise.
And despite this, perhaps being a kind of familiar motive in a broader sense,
I like to draw attention to some of the specifics of these faiths specific articulation, which I think actually is quite interesting.
And so what we kind of have is a movement, some usefulness in the kind of biblical period to creativeness and look symbolic
business in the Islamic period with a return to usefulness in design and exciting,
ultimately presents old age as some kind of aberration for a generation from the
kind of need to do to build a system that exhibited some kind of initially from.
And I would things as something that can be overcome or resistant.
And I think speaks to the kind of good design and development such as gymnastic societies and other enterprises to try
and cast off the all these premature age related physical condition for disability related conditions in this community,
which I think so cleanses them seised upon in antisemitic discourse.
So nature's kind of old age is categorised with these qualities that kind of set forth in design.
So self creation, creation. But I mean,
one of the real questions that we're not its own history is moving from a distance to use once again and is what the relationship is to the
individual experiencing things or the ageing process and what it means for which individuals in the present moment for these communities,
at which individuals were invited to participate in this kind of useful activism and whether this kind
of symbolic language was constructed at the expense of the involvement of some members of the community.
And so I have to kind of take on questions relating to the conceive of proxy enforcement, founding members of the community.
And secondly about the involvement of when I was in SAC Age related some of the ageing process with different nations entities to have this kind
of knocked on to the male paradigms that we've seen today and how much they were kind of interesting to participate in this kind of logic.
And so I'm going to think about these two questions relating to older people and women disbursements, too, and to critics or scientists.
And then it's going to be time to see how that's great.
So the first question is another thing to go through, and it shows expression of things man, use a paradigmatic life stages.
And so we see this figure means from left to right across the ages of kind of teenager
to very young peacefulness into a more mature adult use sense and internal things,
so to speak on the left is lying on the ground in some kind of forest to relax palms facing up
to the sky as a tree is a person and his body is kind of sliding in to the greenery around him.
And I think quite significantly, he is also quite androgynous.
He hasn't yet reached sexual maturity. And in contrast, the middle class has reached sex and charity,
which is accepted in the very kind of familiar visual language with goodness and muscularity.
This has made it clear some kind of composition of this image that wears a man's.
He really stands out in sharp contrast to the plain white background behind me.
And the way that he has positioned, and it does nothing to create his grace and strength.
And I think in this kind of self-defensive case, he's also in quite strong contrast to relax and quite vulnerable position to take on the left.
And so that these images show is the same man in his phone range.
He's now returned to the ground. His has now gone white and this become much narrower in his body and his torso on his computer skills.
But his next to the phone is in front of him. And I'm with the Sun setting some of the setting with the background.
And it seems like it's like maybe 20 minutes and.
And I mean, this kind of account of the ageing process is very linear, individual strength is not in good standing.
Curious tension with the kind of back and forth of different agent entities illustrated of
the Jewish people or community as a whole across history that is kind of just mentioned.
And it really, I wonder that's the kind of thing you have community.
What role is that this figure has?
And it's clear that the second essential image tethers to come comforting ideas about Zionist activism in the future.
And even though I think there's also a space for older individuals to be kind of productively into
past years of Jewish history to kind of contribute to this term's historical process and that design,
this community can present themselves as the pinnacle of. But I don't really see rooms with elderly figures,
such as the one who might actually kind of sit within the Zionist movement of history and to the community in person.
So I think in many ways, figures on the race have kind of written out of them out of the present moment,
which is kind obvious in some ways, kind of troubling.
And also, I don't know, I think to me makes the movement between collective and individual stand in some degree, a kind of uncomfortable tension.
And this image also throws up with the movement from the kind of androgynous
youth on the left into the kind of gay men set to a charity in the middle.
Actually, the questions about what sexual maturity might like to women and whether we
have seen the equivalence of this kind of threat of COVID 19 in the middle.
And so I'm going to share another conflict now, and she's going back to Lillian, which is the three stages of how romantic or sex encounter.
And then I pull this one by one and examine a little bit more detail.
That is a kind of narrative that means some kind of chaste and to silence embrace on the left and more active in counterintelligence terms,
the kind of doctor sessions which will come back to you in the moment.
So we have here and typically kind of muscular male figure standing some distance from
his companion who has they can kind of difficult to maintain her of physical features,
a useful for many I things that we see in this nation's second story.
The two are no longer kind of naked. They don't have the static kinds of all this kind of squeaks,
snap jeans and wearing some of the kind of typical exotic cat names that I mentioned are typical striations.
Now they have clean jewellery, and they're also encased in a much more passionate difference.
And I think their first sexual encounter is kind of neat, particularly claims and not terribly subtle found image recently and positions around them.
So in the foreground, we have an for plus and smoke free.
There's no sense in distance. And I think kind points towards the women's fatality, the forthcoming sexual relationship.
And does that suggest something of the kind of trend?
So you see some snow in the foreground and it's kind of two fallen from his fight with his partner against nature statute.
Governing this occasion, I presume that consent is not in motion for him to going back to the which is going to happen.
And I think for me, this kind of charges the first pair of images with a real sense of dread, and it's a kind of terribly ominous.
And I don't know.
I don't want to kind of read out from this kind of conclusions about 10:48am conclusions, Tim's approach to feminine sexuality.
But I do think that as this kind of choice of image does pose some questions to looking for kind of straightforward female equivalents to male
paradigms and things say that you see kind of occasionally suggesting that the male muscles you find space equivalent in the kind of subtle young,
healthy women that I think the kind of, you know,
universal celebrations is male muscularity and vitality doesn't quite have them a straightforward parallel in these images of usefulness.
When we have the intrusion of these kind of honest tones and perhaps kind of bracketing or nuancing suggestions of
them as kind of seeming sensuality for the pursuit of kind of sexual satisfaction from the possibilities for women.
And so I think something just kind of points to more broadly is the necessity when thinking about ideas of age and gender.
Thinking about how these paradigms must onto men and women differently is how going to commitments, for instance, towards, you know,
ideas of sexuality or moral things is that must know that women in pursuit of kind of sexual
satisfaction for whatever it is and that these kind of good ideas related things like quality,
seeking to interfere in the kind of gendered constructions of things.
And then we can also open this up to broader questions about how these paradigms change from motivation to certain kind of ideals.
And how can they be kind of exclusions and people, and not just to age related reasons for those motivated reasons unable to kind of retain
paradigms of kind of sexual activity with them that we see in some of the other intersections?
And since I'm conscious of the prime time getting on, so I think I to talk about this too much more,
but just waiting to gesture to have this place in two minds go to predict which really tries to think about
how race and gender are used to articulate not only kind of good ideas used by the science community,
but how they also intersect with other ideas relating to sexuality and so forth,
and how this a kind of mutual interplay between the social commitments of the Greeks and embrace of the broad themes that
are shared across different science communities and how they give a particular kind of unique vision of post-Brexit.
No need to be difficult past the chapters of history and kind of, say, the science teacher.
So I just can't conclude with the acknowledgement that, of course, in many ways,
it's not surprising that increases the primary intellectuals and artists might build a picture of the kind of
Zionist movement and design its future that wasn't necessarily hospitable to only individuals or to women.
But what I would like to suggest is that this kind of narrative analysis,
which uncovers some of these kind of structural issues relating to his personal views pushed out of this moment in
history and also kind of provides a set of tools to fix a specific and you into this community to express them,
express their commitment to Zionism and the kind of ideas about the relationship between
the past and the future relationship between the individual and the collective.
So I think that's it for me. Thanks very much for having me, and I'm looking forward to your questions and comments.
And I will say that I'm also very happy to send you these images again left in the summer in a little bit more detail.
Thanks very much. Right. Thank you very much for a really, really interesting presentation.
I have a million questions for you. I'm going to start with maybe just one or two I would.
Before I do, I think I would request that anyone who does have a question to please Typekit in the Q&A,
Panopto and Ya'akov will publish it or outlandish it up. It just struck me that the painting alone in the world, I mean,
a lot of this the age stuff is unfortunately has a very biting irony for me at this stage in my life.
But the alone in the world is how I feel.
Every time I try to open Microsoft Teams, I got to tell you, but I had a I had a more serious kind of observation.
I suppose the first the first painting, the million, they're not paintings, but, you know, sketches or whatever that you showed at the beginning.
There's a certain. Well, they reminded me very much.
I mean, obviously, because they're in the same style of these kind of art nouveau. You can steal sketches, especially the Aubrey Beardsley salami.
But it it seemed to me that there's a complete turning its on its head of kind of roles and gender roles.
I mean, I think of the art nouveau artists.
You know, it's kind of they're kind of celebrating masculine femininity, and this seems to actually push that down a little bit.
And I suspect there's a paradox here, and the paradox lies in Max Nordahl and degeneration,
whereas kind of the art nouveau artists, we're very excited about being degenerate.
The Jews of the Zionists, we're trying to push it down. And I think that's so.
So I think that maybe you could comment and a little bit on that before I just talked myself into a corner,
but it just struck me as very, very interesting. Thanks, Peter.
Yes, absolutely. There are loads of them, really, from similarities between Indians and Pakistanis.
Even so, Fox and not just the style of these images,
but also you know them with an exquisite kind of terms, but place borders to accompanying illustrations.
So he is absolutely rooted in these kind of scientific communities.
He also was active in them before he became kind of involved in Zionism.
So yeah, absolutely. He's really working out of that to the extent.
And yeah, I really like your observation about this kind of turning the idea of such a gender on its head.
And I think this is one of the citizens, something I kind of see in analysis opinions where in particular people can.
I think that sometimes when you're trying to look for pictures of kind of sexual liberation amongst the men and women you to fix and you know,
he could do so much work that it is easy to pull out a few examples of what might look like a really liberated feminine sexuality.
A kind of casting off the force were kind of norms and expectations.
But at the same time, I often do see a parallel intrusion of a desire to really conform to kind of maybe more bourgeois norms of sexuality,
like the kind of punishment of this women in distress trifle partner who seems to
be kind of punished with death for her pursuit of kind of sexual satisfaction.
So I think that really is the kind of a person who comes after kind of the kind of anti bourgeois and the as well.
And when it comes to gender roles within the movement. And I mean, certainly seems to me about it,
certainly every example of the kind of liberated women we might find an instance of this where we can find a handful of articles saying women,
your role is to be in educating the children.
And there's an absolutely kind of an absolute flood of kind of bourgeois expectations for the perception that women have.
I mean, I think this makes it very interesting that the sentence is made so visible in that in certain particular.
And I think this is one of the things I'm trying to do, maybe in bringing in the language of age to help them pass what the generation,
how it might be expressed visually is to help trying to navigate between these
two critical of these two very different ideas that within the community.
So so I guess I would say on top of that, though, I'm just going to push back a little bit because,
you know, I think of the Salaman very strong my head.
But I was also thinking while you were talking about kind of all the Klimt paintings that I can think of, they're all women.
They're very erotic and erotic, you know, and the men kind of take a back, you know,
a back burner role, except for maybe the Klimt that the big freeze he did on Beethoven Ninth Symphony.
But Salome, you know, she's if you think of the Beardsley project, she's a she's a she's was not even a woman.
She's a 60 year old girl. And, you know, historically, who knows what she wants.
She's got the head of John the Baptist on a platter. And I don't I don't know. I think, you know, she's a very, very strong woman.
I guess that said, that was the final comment, too, that I had one other question.
By the way, you talked about the idea of youth and youthfulness at the very beginning and that you said,
you know, four four four four four kind of cultural Zionist.
This is a very strong trope, but it was for all of the Zionist groups, I would say.
I mean, the idea of youth and I mean, certainly for for, you know, my guys later on,
the fascists in the pro fascist Zionists, I mean, youth was what was it, you know?
And so I suppose you could maybe talk about the idea of youth. Is it just for a few seconds in terms of all of this, you know, youth for Zionism?
Full stop. Maybe, yes. I'm sorry.
I mean, I think one of the things that I see in this time period is people kind of battling for who gets to be the youngest or the
most innovative and some kind of fantastic remarks that Martin gave the writes of his partner after the Zionist Congress.
And he said to her, You know, look, increases modernists for. The ancients are terribly scared of us.
Friends, I guess, the same cooling 41 year old Theodore, Hansel and Vincent.
And so I think there's a real kind of polemical slinging around of his own,
who's kind of young who gets the kind of claims of mental health, most kind of free thinking.
And I wonder if perhaps another kind of approach that maybe most incites is thinking about kind of like generations,
maybe the kind of spectrum of options too imprecise and too easily mobilised,
but thinking about it in terms of generations them to kind of be inclusive to this fact one thing.
And I think this is one of the things that we see,
particularly in the relationship between this young man and his community and who is a kind of position.
Those, yes, in some ways are really inspiration, but also nevertheless a member of a kind of prior generation who they might take inspiration from.
They are carving out a distinctive identity, something contrasting.
So I suppose it's not just to say that usefulness is probably a useful term.
Usefulness is a useful tool because it's so imprecise.
And it's not just bodily claims to use for some see kind of sense of intellectual usefulness, artistic usefulness.
And it's really just the completely first time,
which I think gets a sense that the writing is kind of completely inconsistent or incompatible claims across different communities.
But it's really interesting.
I've got one question from Marcus published, and I would urge anyone who's got more questions to please, please kind of put them up there.
Otherwise you're going to get lots of my questions or questions. I know it's interesting.
Marcus says many thanks for your excellent presentation. Could I ask you about your scholarship on Paula Winkler, Gruber's wife?
I would like to know if there were other notable female writers who were the wives of Zionist thinkers and were working in a similar vein,
as exhibited by Paula. And what were the relations between Paula and those women, if any,
could you also explain how Paula was treated by Berbers male and female contemporaries in Jerusalem at the time they lived there?
Great. Thank you. That's not Suzanne. Not for questions.
But then I might just pull out one or two threads in the kind of sense to keep my answer founded concise enough,
looking back and actually talking about her first season at the time.
And so she's having a really interesting, relatively small,
but I think quite substantial set of contributions to this kind of cultural Zionist community.
And she writes really powerfully about the role that women play in Zionism.
And as I briefly touched upon a moment ago, there was also very kind of typically fond of of on notions about women who were staying in the home,
raising children, providing the kind of domestic compliments to their husbands,
public facing institutions,
noting intellectual activities and what that does is going to stick to the suggestion that women's primary contributions might be in the home.
But in contrast to others, including in contrast to Martin Draper, she doesn't kind of show these as the pale reflection,
not the counterpart that you situate six maternal activity as really profoundly failing to create this kind of,
I think in some ways, quietly radical account of, well,
maternal innovation in terms of storytelling and kind of the creation of this domestic space, my sex life.
And she also talks about the creation of these domestic spaces as not only facilitating children's education,
but also facilitating kind of southern style discussion environments for the broader community.
So without kind of completely breaking off the Association of Women with the domestic space,
she nevertheless kind of gives a really powerful account of how this is a side to some kind of creativity,
sometimes with women and in terms of other notable writers who was important.
Now, it's not all sorts of illicit relationships going on amongst this community,
so I would say that there are two notable female figures won't necessarily married to the men in the community,
but we have them springs people that American families briefly in relationships with.
Some of these males like this. And I just mentioned one of them as an example.
Nelson had a brief kind of sexual relationship.
Not much is known about it, but I think it's clear that they did have a relationship with a really fascinating.
So it couldn't be a high school. He wrote under the name Bill Chrysler.
And he was fine, as far as I understand.
So women who participated in the kind of masochistic kind of school of poetry in this time period and like their occur,
she she was born to a Catholic family.
Mary's father went on to convert to Judaism after she had children with married Martin and now the rest as far as when they were students.
And I don't think the relationship was any unnecessarily nasty that she wrote the most kind of fascinating heresy,
which blended really subversive kind of masochistic things about them,
sexual pains and the kinds of some, I don't know, really quite detailed in her accounts of these sexual relationships.
And then somehow kind of seamlessly blended them into Zionist accounts of the kind of the erotic concept design, its perfection.
And so she's, I think, an example of one of the really interesting kind of peripheral figures amongst
the cultures on this community who was tied to some of the kind of sameness
men and perfection of having a relationship that you can do kind of do in some
really kind of subversive and diverse kind of creative forms of expression.
And I should say in my kind of deliberate move away from focussing on the kind of institutionalised Zionist political activities of people.
I mean, what? I'm trying to make room to find these interesting figures on the periphery of the community.
So it's kind of, you know, some of the faculty and friends of kind of creative expression that was facilitated
by the Greeks and that was kind of their for the talk cultural token here,
I suppose. Can I have a question?
I'll put myself in a rose.
Thank you so much for this fascinating talk. Again, as Peter says, there's so much to discuss and also so much to comment.
So just as a brief comment really is not a question, but more of a comment.
It's fascinating to see to watch Lillian's images and to think about the argument that Zionism is the secularisation of Judaism.
If this makes any sense of secularisation, then I don't understand anything to put.
Yeah, to put heritage as Moses and said, this is not, you know, not theological.
Is this fascinating? Also, is this image?
How to say you can use words like picture of, you know, a female character which is extremely telling to what you were also discussing?
My question has to do with youth, though, not with. I obviously understand not only the Zionists,
but you know this general sense that youth as a promise of a future and breaking away from the past been,
you know, they look forward, the old people look backwards and so forth.
But we also must necessarily the, you know, these painters or artists included that youth is a passing.
Faith, that all of you know, all of humanity goes through this graduate and all of those celebrated, you are youthful, they're half naked, masculine.
I don't know how to go. Pioneers would ultimately age.
So how did they view the idea of not not old age, but of ageing, of becoming?
Oh yeah. Thanks.
That's a really, really good question and something I've been thinking about enough.
And I think they did, and I think one of the reasons they got away was not the Masters because they were only coherent as a movement for a few years.
So there were a few of them did have children during this time period.
They didn't have to kind of confront the ageing process.
So one of the virtues of this thing,
just the kind of snapshot of youthful exuberance and expression is that they didn't necessarily have to address things.
But I think for me, I like to say to address it is one of the things that opens up the real kind of gulf between this collective and movement,
between age groups in a nonlinear way. And then the very kind of linear process of ageing that happens to the individual and can't be halted.
And I think that's a real kind of realm. This kind of opens up a very paradoxical element in the ageing process,
which just goes kind of unacknowledged and a trip to some very which shows the man going through these three different stages of life.
I think to me, the only kind of acknowledgement of the ageing process for an individuals that I
found and people's interpretation and analysis of this image is really interesting.
He reads it basically as a tragedy because the mind is alone, and then he contrasts it favourably with the portrait of Adam and Eve,
which he suggests is really significant because they're not just two human beings, but they're a pair of human beings.
So I think insofar as it is addressed and the movement towards kind of old age is somehow softened by the unfolding of new generations,
the building of communities.
But I still don't really see how this solves that problem because of all the happenings as a passing of the torch from one young person to another.
It still doesn't really address what happens to the different age members of the community or the people that don't have children.
So whatever it is, I think,
is a kind of a copout really to just protect the kind of series of youths rather than actually acknowledging anything, for instance.
So I'm going to kind of pick up on the youth thing just one one last time just kind of got chatting out from what Yako said.
You know, just thinking about this too that, you know, we kind of focus so much on youth around this period,
you know, from the city and from the beginning of the 20th century to maybe well to the end of the Second World War.
And I just wonder how much of it is just it just happened, you know, in every direction, it was just it was just a by-product of mass politics anyway.
And you know, we make such a strong fact.
We focus so strongly on it. But I suppose I guess what? I don't know if this is a question or comment at the stage, but we'll see in a second.
I guess just trying to understand the difference between youth as, let's say,
not an ideology, but kind of going more in that direction and youth as as a political tool.
I guess that's maybe you could just talk a little bit about that in relation to what you've been saying.
And I've got one more comment from Marcus, but I'll just wait for your answer first to this, so we don't lose the thread.
And so, yes,
I think this one sense that is just kind of this particular of tools that enable something stinks and insisted really easy way to say this is,
you know, this is not medicine that I'm offering something that is relevant because it's useful.
And I think this is a kind of a very casual use of words when I seem to use that doesn't necessarily must
to the more profound and snatched out associations with their qualities or experiences for peacefulness.
And in this community.
So I guess more examples of kindness in for usefulness or partly because they represented something so explicitly in the visual art.
But there's also a lot of literature that they produced that really strongly associates
and usefulness was a useful kind of imperative with the kind of the artistic process.
And then also for people particular the nature of a movement in itself that he defines the
movement as the kind of rising cost of kind of useful imperatives amongst the community.
This kind of restless, useful energy to him becomes a movement when these entities are directed towards a common cause.
And so there's a real kind of view of the Zionist movement for at least the kind of productive Zionist movement,
as fuelled by an energy that is essentially useful.
And he has all sorts of recurring images about seeds sprouting, shoots rising up and this being the kind of like disorder for me if one has a home.
And then also methods to kind of more specific ideas like creativity since the
onset of this kind of latent potential in the experience makes an impulse,
and that is what feeds specific activity,
such as producing the kind of violence that that's the kind of foundation that the kind of movement needed to go to come.
So I think for me, the kind of am it's not human flesh out the account of what this one was a trace kind of process.
Some deep insights into the communities. An ideology, then the kind of throwaway comments of less so parsley observations.
I think that is more of a kind of a passing just kind of come to.
Thank you very much. So Marcus had one more question, he said, I did not catch Maria's surname.
Could you repeat it? Thanks. Yes.
Since I couldn't be, I say, on the couch, I think I just wonder if there are just another second to pause to see if there are any more questions.
No. OK, Rose, thank you so, so much for what was really,
really an interesting presentation and kind of goes right to the heart of what I think we're trying to achieve with this seminar is kind of,
you know, looking at things from a different perspective. Yaakov, I'm not sure what to say about next term,
except that I guess we'll all find out in due course what we're going with with
the term card will be and I suspect it will still be online at that stage.
But yeah, it's a safe assumption. But stay tuned. If you are not on our mailing list,
please just send an email and we'll put you on a mailing list and you know about all the other programmes we were going to say,
so thank you all very much. And Rose, thank you all. Thank you.
So it was only one of you so much for a really, really interesting presence.
Thank you for having me.