1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:10,070 And. So good afternoon, everybody. 2 00:00:10,070 --> 00:00:19,790 My name is Peter Bergman, and welcome to the final seminar in Hillary term series for the reconsidering really Jewish nationalist ideologies. 3 00:00:19,790 --> 00:00:24,070 I am very, very excited to to welcome our guest. 4 00:00:24,070 --> 00:00:28,100 He's a colleague and friend, Dr. Leonard Shapiro from Vienna. 5 00:00:28,100 --> 00:00:32,360 I'm going to just flip screens to read her bio because my memory isn't that good anymore. 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,890 Ilana is a cultural and design historian and the project leader of the Austrian Science Fund Research Project, 7 00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:45,530 Visionary Vienna Design and Society, 1918 to 1944, which she convened from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. 8 00:00:45,530 --> 00:00:52,580 She's a senior postdoctoral fellow and lecturer in design, history and theory at the University of Applied Arts in Vienna. 9 00:00:52,580 --> 00:00:59,120 And Ilana's the author of Starland Seduction Jewish Patrons Architectural Design and Send A of Vienna, 10 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,840 which was published by Brandeis University Press in 2016. 11 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:09,050 And she's the editor of Design Dialogue Jews Culture and Wienies Modernism, published by Buelow in 2018, 12 00:01:09,050 --> 00:01:14,720 which I've a book I know very, very well and use quite a lot of my own teaching and I would recommend is an excellent resource. 13 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,470 And she's also the editor of the forthcoming anthology Designing Yes Designing 14 00:01:18,470 --> 00:01:22,160 Transformation Jews and Cultural Identity and Central European Modernism, 15 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,480 published by Bloomsbury are coming forthcoming Bloomsbury 2021. 16 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,910 Ilana's further the co-editor of the following anthologies based on the proceedings of international symposiums that she's 17 00:01:31,910 --> 00:01:39,620 Koku organised once freude in the Emigre Emigre Cultures and Design and Architecture and her forthcoming symposium, 18 00:01:39,620 --> 00:01:47,060 organised together with uncut cuts. Wolfsberg is get started in enthrone design exams to have them green and deficient treat site. 19 00:01:47,060 --> 00:01:50,960 So what was a good start and how do you translate that in London? 20 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:59,150 By design figures, women design and society in Vienna in the interwar years, 21 00:01:59,150 --> 00:02:05,150 which will take place at the museum from day on the Constable Museum of Applied Arts in Vienna in many 1921. 22 00:02:05,150 --> 00:02:13,670 Alanah is going to speak to us today about Berta Zuckerkandl and her Circo Austrian nationalism, and I called the Rathod title is on this episode. 23 00:02:13,670 --> 00:02:18,650 You can finish the title for Malana anyway. Welcome. Thank you very much, Peter. 24 00:02:18,650 --> 00:02:28,220 Thank you very much, Jakob and Peter, for the invitation and very excited to present my talk today in front of some of the colleagues and friends. 25 00:02:28,220 --> 00:02:40,680 It's a final up action. Know my book style and seduction in regard to how the end is modernism addressed Jewish topics and Jewish press. 26 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:47,900 I would say Jewish ID when I was preparing for the talk today, I was wondering, 27 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:57,530 I was almost surprised how much material I've found about the relationship between that that took account and an affirmation of culture. 28 00:02:57,530 --> 00:03:06,080 Austrian nationalism. And I would then just to refracting to define it before I start my talk show. 29 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:14,330 Austrian nationalism very similar to Jewish culture on that culture, Jewish nationalism that was defined by my. 30 00:03:14,330 --> 00:03:21,170 It's about renewal and transformation, of course, of art and the literature. 31 00:03:21,170 --> 00:03:41,550 And when I referred to us, Berta Zuckerkandl and her salon, it's it's a story that starts in the late 80s, 80s in her own salon, 32 00:03:41,550 --> 00:03:50,850 that there are some several chapters ahead before and the head the first and I start in regard to her own perspective, 33 00:03:50,850 --> 00:03:58,250 upline syndrome as a cultural centre in Vienna in the 80s, 90s. 34 00:03:58,250 --> 00:04:01,880 She developed it following the model of her father. 35 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:12,770 Lois Ships was the editor of the Nice having a tag flat and had a connexions with local, contemporary, but also other Europeans. 36 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:19,490 He also collaborated with Crown Prince Rootlets. And I will speak about that briefly later. 37 00:04:19,490 --> 00:04:27,170 What is critical about the salon was that it became a kind of the Northumbrian centre of creative writing, 38 00:04:27,170 --> 00:04:39,580 or when we knew the cultural Austrian nationalism and the identification of what's Austrian nationalism, 39 00:04:39,580 --> 00:04:55,610 Flyhalf was very clear because her father, who had an amazing career as a newspaper editor in the 70s and the 80s, and he was a publishing and. 40 00:04:55,610 --> 00:05:00,890 One of the most successful newspapers, liberal newspapers in Vienna. 41 00:05:00,890 --> 00:05:06,170 He at the early 80s started collaborating with Crown Prince will boost. 42 00:05:06,170 --> 00:05:14,400 Paranoid and collaborating with liberal politicians in Paris, including Gambetta and Jerrold's elements. 43 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:20,310 So in outlining a liberal mission, a liberal mission, 44 00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:34,890 a Western mission of Austin will guarantee that we combat the recent calls for unification with Germany in Austria. 45 00:05:34,890 --> 00:05:45,040 And for him for more chips. Basically, the basic idea was to try and construct in what the national identity of 46 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:51,700 Austrian nationalism that will be based on the study of each nation in Austria, 47 00:05:51,700 --> 00:06:04,360 Hungarian. And we'd be out of respect would the Crown Prince of Austria well, more into promoting Austrian Museum and all over the territories. 48 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:15,040 And somehow there was a negotiation between the two about coming up with a new grand project of the state of a publishing project. 49 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:23,860 Austria, Hungary, in words and images and pictures that would be based on scientific and literature work, 50 00:06:23,860 --> 00:06:27,700 studying each of the nations and the ethnic groups. 51 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:37,960 And this kind of a heritage that she inherited from my father followed besides the fact that he was prosecuted when the German 52 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:47,110 nationalistic clothing tafsir and Shannara brought it to kind of an outline of what sepulchral Austrian nationalist ideology, 53 00:06:47,110 --> 00:06:57,760 according to her and DSR referred to in relation to her own promotion of the late in the late 80s 90s of modernism of Austrian modernist. 54 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,550 It was, and I quote enthusiastically, 55 00:07:00,550 --> 00:07:11,110 a fellow with the slogan slogan that was coined by Hevesi to the time it's often to the artist's freedom into action. 56 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:14,680 It was a question of defending a purely Austrian culture, 57 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:24,910 a form of art that could well together art to correct the mistakes of a multitude of constituent peoples into a new and proud unity. 58 00:07:24,910 --> 00:07:36,920 But to be Austria did not mean to be German. Austrian culture. 59 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:47,210 Now, given her relationship with Paris that were established by her father just time and so and has to step into the system, married Sophie, 60 00:07:47,210 --> 00:07:58,040 married the brother of Joe's Clemenceau and had contacts with prominent artists in France like that, you can come in and stay with them. 61 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:08,600 A group of young artists that were directed that rebelled, that just wanted to rebuild again, 62 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:17,320 or were leaving the consulate house in which was the main art institute in Vienna at the time 63 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:24,440 and wanted to organise a new orchestra situation to hire and recording a within her salon. 64 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:31,440 They decided to renew modernist art movement and this included major protagonist of the time. 65 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:43,220 I think that the fact that it was responsible for the for the railroads in Vienna, for the Underground Railroad, that the time and you have Goosestep, 66 00:08:43,220 --> 00:08:50,150 which was the major and the president of the new association was the Flame and Cudmore, 67 00:08:50,150 --> 00:09:00,620 who was also very much a part of this new organisation, and also to the dealing part, the art dealing part of the it's an. 68 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:10,160 Now, when they come to how she has already established this alone, that included also colleagues of her husband. 69 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:17,120 Yeah. Who was a professor of anatomy at the University of Vienna and Fordham Law. 70 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,880 There were also Minbar Bar journalists who she worked with. 71 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:27,860 Since then, she has been publishing since 1894 on Applied Arts and a French artist. 72 00:09:27,860 --> 00:09:36,080 And it included also some literary personalities like Hugel from Hofman, Stull and OCTA Metzler. 73 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:42,140 And when she does it, they keep a kind of vague, you know, an acknowledgement. 74 00:09:42,140 --> 00:09:47,390 Please promote. Are you OK? Move McNinch Vienna. 75 00:09:47,390 --> 00:09:54,440 But, you know, it took a lot of negotiations about her role as a leader, as a journalist, 76 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:00,270 and also negotiations about arranging actually the assignments so MISCH contracts. 77 00:10:00,270 --> 00:10:07,010 But then that made her actually at the set himself not only a support from 78 00:10:07,010 --> 00:10:12,430 journalistic review actually making for them context in different professions. 79 00:10:12,430 --> 00:10:17,670 And that, to me, with the doctors of Madisons musicians, Gustav Mahler, 80 00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:25,840 who was the director of the Opera House at the time, she did them in the symbol's. 81 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,320 It kind of took an environment to negotiate different ideas. 82 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:36,080 Yeah. And what was the most important for her at the time? 83 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:43,710 A spot of modernisation was to promote the idea of, I would say, 84 00:10:43,710 --> 00:10:55,550 a kind of actually revival revival for discusses with science and arts, which was part integral part of her salon. 85 00:10:55,550 --> 00:11:05,060 Now, at the time, you're speaking about 1897. This is the time when a group of young artists rebelled against the A house 86 00:11:05,060 --> 00:11:11,630 that could serve the academic Athens mission in Vienna at this time in 1897. 87 00:11:11,630 --> 00:11:15,740 Let's see what's going on here. 1897, she has already published. 88 00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:19,640 She hasn't read the Estonian provenance so long. She has several networks. 89 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:30,280 Her closest associate that this time is National Bar, who was an editor of the journal Side Bar, has dough. 90 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:37,270 Has been has just come back from Paris. He became also the spokesman of the young of the young. 91 00:11:37,270 --> 00:11:42,840 We enter a new literary group as a kind of representative also of Austrian newsa stability. 92 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:49,630 And the naturalism buyer has published in 1894 a book about anti-Semitism. 93 00:11:49,630 --> 00:12:01,080 And this isn't a surprise. Perhaps for several people, a surprise given the fact that he had belonged to a German nationalist movement, quote, 94 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:11,800 out of the where he the action told the Herald Sun and Tandoor had said it was being and also just came back from Paris published. 95 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:18,470 In the meantime, in 1896, his pamphlet, his most important pamphlet, The Jewish State in 1896. 96 00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:31,720 So this is 1897 when everything comes together, 1896, you have Kaluga being elected for the second time in the booth, as in May of the end. 97 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:44,080 And within this group of people that is coming together, Hetson, those central people of the people who were organised around this decision, 98 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:54,910 movement, including moving a sheep with whom he has published in the Human Race Journal, Ludvig Habashi and Hannemann Bar. 99 00:12:54,910 --> 00:12:59,950 Together, we took a kind of reequipped both the secession as a cultural Austrian nationalism. 100 00:12:59,950 --> 00:13:05,680 But what is important here, that anti-Semitism is always in the background, 101 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:15,460 always in the background, not only because of the Dreyfus affair that starts in 1894 in Paris, 102 00:13:15,460 --> 00:13:24,190 which in the centre of that, that the people who supported the innocence of Drive was in the salon of Assistant Farad's. 103 00:13:24,190 --> 00:13:31,940 Every person that we mention here, including Kidston himself, had to negotiate. 104 00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:39,730 The concept. I think that social phenomena. 105 00:13:39,730 --> 00:13:46,330 Now, when Barr publishes he spoke in 1894, yeah, a few years before the Jewish state. 106 00:13:46,330 --> 00:13:54,970 It's after there was a crisis, you know, between him and had so since both of them belonged to the same German nationalist movement. 107 00:13:54,970 --> 00:14:07,180 And in 1883, when he gives a speech after the death of the head Viking, the composer, he actually legitimises his racial anti-Semitism. 108 00:14:07,180 --> 00:14:15,580 And this closes in reaction had to leave this German nationalist theme. 109 00:14:15,580 --> 00:14:20,390 So they have had some shared Backshall. So what does it mean? 110 00:14:20,390 --> 00:14:34,180 Yeah. So we have a multinational loyalest the concept of Austrian nationalism that is promoted by birth that the candle at the time. 111 00:14:34,180 --> 00:14:39,910 You have Amaia Pandu Echo who provokes Senate for big modernism. 112 00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:52,300 So she has that inclusive modernism. But this versus the Senate for modernism of FUB of Kaluga. 113 00:14:52,300 --> 00:15:04,140 And at the same time, you have people with it, including the artistic auto bagna that I mentioned before as that guy who came to her and said, 114 00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:13,360 come and help us create this new art movement. And later on the 19th, the as it is the quote here where he says, I can assure you, 115 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,680 this councillor, that you would have been an excellent minister of art. 116 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:28,780 It is a shame that you are not so within this group of people, of artists, of Jonan lists, of cultural critics. 117 00:15:28,780 --> 00:15:34,030 We have a kind of a negotiation with antisemitism on one hand. 118 00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:42,220 And what my dear friend and colleague Lisa Silberman would point out, not anti-Semitism per se, hate Jew as hate of Jews, 119 00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:51,880 but also of Jewish differences, meaning the cultural construction and different degrees of difference between Jews and non Jews. 120 00:15:51,880 --> 00:16:02,170 This is something that was very critical. And the question arises how this evolved to the book. 121 00:16:02,170 --> 00:16:10,440 I think the van looked into a situation in which icons of the new, quote, 122 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:17,650 an Austrian nationalist movement, icons that were identified by the leading yeah, 123 00:16:17,650 --> 00:16:22,000 that were created by the LICKY leading off to school sort of claim the case, 124 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:30,400 the language that was exhibit that the 19 or eight actually reworked Zionist graphic sources. 125 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:41,710 And I refer here to the port artist of the Zionist movement to find Moses Lillia and the silent song from the nineteen hundred. 126 00:16:41,710 --> 00:16:49,030 How come? Did he give me work? I mean, what was his what did you think when you originally thought about it? 127 00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:56,180 How can you. And I think there is a long process that we tried to outline for you now. 128 00:16:56,180 --> 00:17:02,800 Yeah. So we have the background of the Multi-National lissom or the multinational Zouma. 129 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:09,230 We'll say I worked in Nacionale Austrian identity. 130 00:17:09,230 --> 00:17:15,040 The promotion that diversity is the is the source of unity. 131 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:21,460 We have a coincidence of time or PiolĂ­n or I would say partly it was innovative in the 132 00:17:21,460 --> 00:17:27,850 vote that they put into the world in which you have the state to the Jewish state, 133 00:17:27,850 --> 00:17:35,560 you have their secession movement, 1897 being developed. 134 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,810 Now you will have it. 135 00:17:37,810 --> 00:17:54,940 I mean, I will come back to this comparison at the end, but we need to know now is that the origin of this site and I'm song by Fine Moses Liliom. 136 00:17:54,940 --> 00:18:04,840 It was a book. It was a best selling book that came out December nineteen hundred by a German nationalist, actually, who believed in racial Jews. 137 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:13,680 I mean, we've been to his admiration of Judaism will say, oh, this is the race to survive its centuries long. 138 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:21,600 And and this German nationalist has somehow reworked the call. 139 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:27,850 Would, they say, go back to history and reclaim your pride and beauty. 140 00:18:27,850 --> 00:18:32,870 Go back to Zion. And it's a serious of protected song. 141 00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:47,710 That's his. I would just. Yet in regard to reclaiming authority and reclaiming national group identity of the Jews about patronising, 142 00:18:47,710 --> 00:18:51,790 you should go back and reclaim your heroic things with five. 143 00:18:51,790 --> 00:18:58,660 And now and then look, we happened, she said one of the one of the leading spokesmen of the secession. 144 00:18:58,660 --> 00:19:04,840 He writes a review of, you know, with the fact that the Christian Zionist and a poet. 145 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:12,640 And then he says, I'm very sorry. Your songs may be good, may be pathetic, maybe good. 146 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:20,590 Some of them are nice. The drawing may be very good. It's very interesting to look at, but don't tell us what to do. 147 00:19:20,590 --> 00:19:26,410 We are not going to go back to Psion if we want to go back to Zion, its actions. 148 00:19:26,410 --> 00:19:34,370 We are not going to hear it from someone else. So there is a kind of an ambivalence stuck with you and several. 149 00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:39,550 And there were different. Even the wife of Lilyan himself said this. 150 00:19:39,550 --> 00:19:43,800 People that I'm sorry, there's a typo here and it should be without. 151 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:56,980 And even the wife of you said those who who are embracing Zionism be aware because they're relatively they actually want to throw you out of you. 152 00:19:56,980 --> 00:20:08,350 And so when it comes to the references of sources of Zionist art Zionists, the crack of the and the Viennese modernism, 153 00:20:08,350 --> 00:20:22,900 we have to reflect how come it entered old several icons and they come back to look at the because Zuckerkandl and her role models in Vienna. 154 00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:28,210 This is something that they have also presented in my book about different woman who 155 00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:36,850 negotiated for the Jewish perspective what they perceive as the correct Austrian nationalism. 156 00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:41,200 And you have fundi from Arnstein, her sister, Sassy Escalus. Yeah. 157 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:52,450 Josephine footbath lunchtime and Sophie to this group. Each one of them had took a role, a central role in Austria from 18. 158 00:20:52,450 --> 00:21:02,770 With two, I would say 19 to the 18 nineties in which they managed to break into the front and into integrate into high culture. 159 00:21:02,770 --> 00:21:05,980 The Jewish perspective. What does it mean, the Jewish perspective? 160 00:21:05,980 --> 00:21:11,410 It means that, for example, in the living paintings event, that the salon of soffit, the guest, 161 00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:22,480 those Thorpdale you have in attempt to recreate the morning Jews in Babylon, referring to the diaspora a story or you have the facade of this. 162 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:28,960 So it kind of did that with the tiara and star of David referring to the Queen Esther. 163 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:37,270 Oh, you have in there from the ceiling and the ceiling of the dance was the combination of Hester, another painting, 164 00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:47,440 the judgement of Hammond, which is the story of the saving of the Jews from a conspiracy to kill them and during the Persian art. 165 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:56,310 And then you have also more both. So you have at the opening of the Theatre of the Royal Theatre in 1888, 166 00:21:56,310 --> 00:22:02,450 its choice to present France, Britain to Esther from 1840 together with little children. 167 00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:07,630 But what is interesting is that the s that that is a long monologue of modified. 168 00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:08,270 And this is it. 169 00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:19,800 Then how come Jewish nationalism and the Viennese modernism and because it was always there in the background so s that eighteen eighty a there 170 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:28,570 is a long monologue of commodify speaking about how the Jews were persecuted in history and how they have tried to come to terms with it. 171 00:22:28,570 --> 00:22:37,480 This is something these voices were already in. These choices were already integrated into high culture in Vienna. 172 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:54,220 So when it comes to Viennese modernism, and it should be noted yet that it will cause a revival of Austrian nationalism as an all inclusive project. 173 00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:59,790 There was no way that they were negated. There was no way that they would for the side. 174 00:22:59,790 --> 00:23:07,800 And one thing that is very critical for this project was, as I said, Herman Bar. 175 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,560 You had said long time ago he admired him. 176 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:19,740 As my colleague Van Harnik in design dialogue pointed out, he fashioned him as a prince in his writings. 177 00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:23,820 He fashioned he wasn't a Syrian prince is a beauty exotic size. 178 00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:31,000 You can have some more of that. Now, you could say synthesising within the mentalizing way like a quote. 179 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:37,130 Yeah, but Hamman. But also believe that Zionism. 180 00:23:37,130 --> 00:23:42,320 The solution for the Jewish problem was very much ambivalent. 181 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:48,200 Like like exactly like Boltzmann's Hudson in the Jenson's that they will refer to today. 182 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:57,870 He was very but very much ambivalent about the Clutha, the Jews and their central role in the production of Austrian nationalism. 183 00:23:57,870 --> 00:24:03,830 So they said one quote that tee'd when he gave it an approval in the Senate. 184 00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:15,320 I trusted you. But you wouldn't slogger in the event of the newspaper that the parents had founded in 1897. 185 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:21,860 He said, All my efforts invested in art have ultimately represented the white desire for the heroic. 186 00:24:21,860 --> 00:24:29,750 Well, these Jews have to build it for themselves. What would be more ROI than the decision to turn one spring into action? 187 00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:34,910 The dream was to return to Palestine. Yeah, that was the dream. 188 00:24:34,910 --> 00:24:37,730 Yeah. If this comes back to the Jewish state, 189 00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:46,820 when he states that have no human being as well feel powerful enough to transplant a nation for me on an invitation to another another. 190 00:24:46,820 --> 00:24:59,290 So this is something very critical. And I think that when Daisy Park to Zion, yeah, there is a call to sign and get even their own newspaper, 191 00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:04,220 that where it was the editor of the floor humorous paper. And they make a joke. 192 00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:10,700 When you look at this, Dandi, he will go back to Israel and make sure that his shoes would be kept. 193 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:17,410 Yeah. And you have this Classico. This was something that was a dream. 194 00:25:17,410 --> 00:25:28,700 It kind of investa me that I suggested in my book style seduction related to the construct and the secession house. 195 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:35,600 And here we have Joseph McCarthy in our belief, one of the early drawings for the secession house. 196 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,100 And we have him to ask the Polish synagogue, you know, Paul Gosset. 197 00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:46,000 Twenty nine as a kind of stay with the golden couple. 198 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:53,630 And this to the idea of Jerusalem and he and as a kind of a talking of reminder of the lost Jerusalem and the Orient, 199 00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:59,750 and you will have had this sea referring to the secession house and magical impression, 200 00:25:59,750 --> 00:26:05,390 a piece of the Orient in Vienna referring not to the idea of reconstructing Jerusalem. 201 00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:14,210 And we end up with the kind of formal dress that will be also Jewish should dress, but an inclusive for everyone. 202 00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:24,320 No. Disassociate. This is session. Was billed as as an inclusive process, the most explosive cultural project, 203 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,480 because if you look at the calendar, you'll find that different religions see. 204 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,400 You have Catholic, Protestant, Greek Orthodox. And he's the guy, Lethe. 205 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:42,570 Sometimes it was Jewish. Sometimes it was Israeli peace. But definitely, definitely all religions will be included. 206 00:26:42,570 --> 00:26:49,950 The secession Calenda, which means that there was an acknowledgement. It was part of the idea of diversity. 207 00:26:49,950 --> 00:26:57,230 Now, I'm just referring very fast, very fast to what Carrack that the GOP can offer. 208 00:26:57,230 --> 00:27:05,390 What kind of a salon she offered? You know, in contrast to the two, her predecessors. 209 00:27:05,390 --> 00:27:12,590 And it also conchas to Akesson more women at the time like Ramallah and InGenius Robots. 210 00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:20,960 But she had one thing that is very critical for the clerical and anti religious and secular KRC, 211 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:32,400 the very similar to Zionism, but at the heart of the Viennese modernism and the. 212 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:39,180 And the aim to renew Austrian nationalism was the medical was the young enemy to become professor of anatomy, 213 00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:43,110 Richard Theft Ebbing, who was died early, but he was part of the scene. 214 00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:53,850 And you have Adam Pulitzer, who was both a that also patron of the new Jewish Museum in Vienna, was opened in 1896, 1895. 215 00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:58,230 And you have the musician Olfert and the pianist and composer. 216 00:27:58,230 --> 00:28:05,960 This my life. There were also the young viene do mean she refers to them as the beginning of Austudy. 217 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,780 You have philosothon an opportunity. Why I'm seeing is a very interesting. 218 00:28:11,780 --> 00:28:20,800 It that it didn't. Zionism, as I will show you, became a Jewish perspective, but it didn't have to be Zionist. 219 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:26,500 In order to be a Jewish perspective, when you in in in in the took a Kansas alone, 220 00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:35,560 what does it mean that two memories that she brings up in her memoirs from 1940 posted one in defence of patients. 221 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,940 Two did two different cultural events. One is the music event, 222 00:28:39,940 --> 00:28:47,980 an event in 1892 at the salon of Jonge House where it was so important for her that it was at the boyfriend 223 00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:55,660 who was playing the piano and that John Strauss of John Schwarcz music and Strauss was speaking. 224 00:28:55,660 --> 00:29:00,850 Oh, my inspiration for the Viennese operetta is from often buffs and born. 225 00:29:00,850 --> 00:29:02,830 So this completely alarmed. 226 00:29:02,830 --> 00:29:14,410 What do you mean often by telling me that French France is their region of Austrian coach of the overseas opera and he says none of them. 227 00:29:14,410 --> 00:29:20,510 I have some impressions from here and they have my background in the Vienna who have been invited. 228 00:29:20,510 --> 00:29:23,350 Then I have. 229 00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:34,550 It is in no approach that and so and then he says a trench, he took a content and looked at times and you dumped me, my dear lady, telling me what to. 230 00:29:34,550 --> 00:29:41,600 Maybe not in the. His actions as well. 231 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,400 And she turns to him. But this man said, Austria, this is Austrian coach, you know. 232 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:56,630 And so in many ways, the idea is that the idea was that going for the Jewish B.A. Strauss is the Austrian musician coming together, 233 00:29:56,630 --> 00:30:03,890 building up in you Austrian idea. Yeah. Negotiating distance, national defence with France. 234 00:30:03,890 --> 00:30:07,910 Negotiating. Yeah. What's the difference between French culture and Austrian culture? 235 00:30:07,910 --> 00:30:11,930 This was part of the discussions. It has to look like that. 236 00:30:11,930 --> 00:30:18,590 And it will be a different variation of the standard story of Ford once the secessions was there. 237 00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:24,980 I wouldn't continue. So now the question arises. 238 00:30:24,980 --> 00:30:36,710 So. Wouldn't be Riphat. He Jews as part of the main leading producer of OST cultural Austrian nationalist. 239 00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:41,030 There was a lot of opposition opposition not only from German nationalists, 240 00:30:41,030 --> 00:30:49,110 but also from also from Jews like in Nineteen Hundred in the World exhibition in France. 241 00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:52,050 Then what do you plan things that will position next to each other. 242 00:30:52,050 --> 00:31:01,890 One was a dinner event in the tiff in Syria, a family showing the lady of the house a Jewish permanent Jewish faith, 243 00:31:01,890 --> 00:31:08,030 John the Adivasi philosophy and the first one to criticise it as they construction 244 00:31:08,030 --> 00:31:13,520 as part of the construction of modernist Austrian art was Karl Krauss, 245 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:21,200 the editor of the fact that they say the only reason that they like clearing is because they dismiss it eventually as Jewish art, 246 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,060 because Cleartrip isn't Jewish. And then said it twice. 247 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:31,220 Yeah, this was Jewish art. I mean, stylistically, it wasn't the similar. 248 00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:36,980 I mean, this is the black romanticism. This was more natural impressionist naturalism. 249 00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:42,260 And still, I think there was an attempt by the patrons themselves to position himself in 250 00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:47,390 the market that they would be directly connected with the modern movement. 251 00:31:47,390 --> 00:31:57,650 And so the question was, and when it came to undermining, undermining Jewish patrons always came. 252 00:31:57,650 --> 00:32:04,760 Part of the this was and demanding the authorship of Jewish sanctions of Jewish culture producers. 253 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:14,300 There was always the references to the Galician Jews as it pertains to Jews, and that could direct the Jews were not the authentic Jews. 254 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:20,690 And so there was one hand undermining Jews thought to write the Jews as being Jews at all at the end. 255 00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:32,300 But at the same time positioning them as a symbiotic way with the Polish Jews, the Galician Jews anthem mining their way off. 256 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:42,500 Of course they're wrong or their authority is cultural, as good producers of Austrian nationalism at the same time. 257 00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:48,410 You have a huge attraction in the Jewish museum opens and it has the greatest trubek, 258 00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:55,940 a room that is being constructed from the Polish house in Galicia and Jewish Polish house. 259 00:32:55,940 --> 00:33:00,950 You have a sort of koffman beam of winning a prise in the Koestler house. 260 00:33:00,950 --> 00:33:09,110 You will have the book that from the same book that was initiated by Tom France would love Austrian 261 00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:16,680 Garryowen when the theme words and pictures dedicating sections to Jews only in year over year. 262 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:22,790 And these Jews, there were only Jews and good in the Austrian, Daryn, when the theory poured into this project. 263 00:33:22,790 --> 00:33:30,720 But there were also a lot of ambivalence, a lot of ambivalence that came from a small house and for sure, 264 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:37,590 the German, but also from the French Clemenceau. There was an attraction and ambivalence. 265 00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:45,250 And you have one of the books in 1898 parallel to this defence of Dreyfus that was illustrated by Thomas Trek reckoned, 266 00:33:45,250 --> 00:33:50,560 which you have on hand if uncanny imagery of Polish Jews and Clemans. 267 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:59,210 So we have to know he was the closest one of the closest to, I would say, companions of Battle took a candle. 268 00:33:59,210 --> 00:34:07,340 And this comes and at the same time you have the kind of food, the shavitz sink stories in the book admiring. 269 00:34:07,340 --> 00:34:18,890 This is after, say, in relation to Zionist movement and how Zionism entered as a kind of iconographic source for the production of 270 00:34:18,890 --> 00:34:27,140 Austrian ideals is that there had to come to Asia and Jews there had to come to terms with the Galician Jews. 271 00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:36,320 They had to come to clumps of the Galician in Vienna and Zionism when their way was a form for them to cultivate the gays and Jews, 272 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,960 to make them more closer to Europeans to beautify them. 273 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:53,150 And you have with the different frame Moses Lilyan is trying to show us in his Etchingham drawings, 274 00:34:53,150 --> 00:35:00,860 he tries to show us how you can beautify and how you could make them look more or more. 275 00:35:00,860 --> 00:35:08,120 I would say salon fee. Yeah, that they could enter the salon if they could to rate the Jews. 276 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:13,970 And this is something very critical. This was part of his role, part of Zionism. 277 00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:26,800 And you have one of the main. Here you have a book by Stephan SVI, one of the first books published on the fly, mostly in the Jozo the Yangtze Vagg. 278 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,830 Was it believed it was a friend of 1000 in the thread? 279 00:35:30,830 --> 00:35:40,630 Lillian and you could see from his very romantic language approval of how you move a transformation of identity. 280 00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:47,890 So he's created world view when he speaks about describing his art is neither random nor Barot. 281 00:35:47,890 --> 00:35:52,360 His originality blossoms forth into life from his own native soul. 282 00:35:52,360 --> 00:36:01,900 Galizia, then from Falke, we call McTell a Jewish and racial values from national imbued scientist and personal faith. 283 00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:07,760 So you could see how it moves. How Coalition and Jewish Jansing Design Society. 284 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,260 This is kind of an umbrella to this negotiations. 285 00:36:11,260 --> 00:36:20,030 If identity it mostly, and it should be noted, came from Galicia, from a book background and maybe Discovery Belene as an illustrator of the union. 286 00:36:20,030 --> 00:36:26,650 And so Zionism, as it might, I suggest, offered. 287 00:36:26,650 --> 00:36:38,280 It kind of a I would say, refashioning of the ugliness of this so-called ugliness of Galician Jews. 288 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:48,230 Could it somehow tank then? And at the same time, it's also offered Jews who were leading members of the cultural producers of the N. 289 00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:59,060 I like that. One of the main authors of Vienna and Bill Hoffman, Richard Beth Hoffman, a kind of thin model here. 290 00:36:59,060 --> 00:37:02,990 We have the interior of the house of Richard Bierhoff. 291 00:37:02,990 --> 00:37:07,370 And then there was a star of David that the entrance above the entrance still. 292 00:37:07,370 --> 00:37:13,730 And you have him kind of fit working and making Joseph Hoffman, 293 00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:20,710 who was one of the main leaders of the modern its movement, making him rework a kind of faith, a synagogue. 294 00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:29,510 Then you have lastly this Larfleeze, former Yamen, you have something here you have they also use the reference, 295 00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:36,320 the ratio to the blood for the forefathers awakening very similar to the language of Stefan Zweig. 296 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:45,040 This is something that we disappear eventually with some of these authors, but it's something that plays into the racial identification of Jews also. 297 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,150 But antisemitism, racial doubleness, this is something very loaded. 298 00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:55,910 And then you have something that I'm going to conclude with slowly. 299 00:37:55,910 --> 00:38:10,860 Is that. The Zionistic not a fee that I would say inflicted right on these modern isn't for sure. 300 00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:23,580 As we see here in a text written by S in his book on the claim was about exactly the moto of bogus Muklas and go back to history. 301 00:38:23,580 --> 00:38:27,440 And Saturn says, yeah, we have you coming back from history to ask. 302 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:33,390 And she is one of the Jewish women that is walking down the streets of the down the village plaza. 303 00:38:33,390 --> 00:38:37,710 And how lovely that we have this revival's, biblical revival. 304 00:38:37,710 --> 00:38:43,260 But you still have here it kind of because up this is zation oriented zation, 305 00:38:43,260 --> 00:38:50,580 the very dubious image of a woman losing control of this sexually, like it's kind of an orgasm in front of the people. 306 00:38:50,580 --> 00:38:55,860 And she had her surface being being taken off by her. 307 00:38:55,860 --> 00:39:05,550 Yeah. So this is something very critical. But you have that you have this romantic idea that we are back into the biblical 308 00:39:05,550 --> 00:39:10,190 times and we're seeing this biblical woman just going down the streets. 309 00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:18,820 Who's there? And so if this is part of FLDS in support of Glooscap claim, fairly certain, was very close member of to pick on that. 310 00:39:18,820 --> 00:39:23,010 And just another figure that is very, very critical. 311 00:39:23,010 --> 00:39:31,440 But this is the change. And here I mean I mean, Zionism. Zionism developed. 312 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:37,290 Efraim Moses a'lelia, developing his art for moving too from the sexualised woman. 313 00:39:37,290 --> 00:39:44,910 Yeah, they found fertile. Into a more mature woman. This is an argument that is being presented in the recent book by Soire. 314 00:39:44,910 --> 00:39:53,430 That's a colleague from Australia wrote a book about the woman's state of the art of the front of Moses Lilyan. 315 00:39:53,430 --> 00:40:03,210 And you could see the transformation not only of the Galician Jews, how Zionistic ethnography changed the Galicians Jews into beautiful people. 316 00:40:03,210 --> 00:40:11,280 You could see how they change. Also, they they allowed woman to free themselves from this set sensuality. 317 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,620 Are we in? And you have the sources of Adella about the second Eichmann, 318 00:40:16,620 --> 00:40:24,660 the Viennese modernism that is celebrated today, referring back to Princess Savitz from Savard, 319 00:40:24,660 --> 00:40:28,950 princess from the dead that I spoke with at the beginning, 320 00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:35,190 and then that the figure of the top layer from the leader of the ghetto, you have a very similar haircut. 321 00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:38,810 You have the idea of the queen sitting on his throne. 322 00:40:38,810 --> 00:40:55,920 And instead of the star of David, you have a sense of duty from other Oriental symbols in the background concludes. 323 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,630 We have silk, a candle with a very, 324 00:41:00,630 --> 00:41:14,910 very inspired set of people working together to create an inclusive culture of Austrian that lissom using the project. 325 00:41:14,910 --> 00:41:23,460 The Viennese modern this as a representation, as a source of cultural revival. 326 00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:28,890 Each one of them members of a saloon, specifically Hermann Bar Ludvig, 327 00:41:28,890 --> 00:41:39,030 have a she had different relations to Jewish identity and Jewish difference in how they perceived Jewish difference. 328 00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:52,170 Parallel, you have designed this movement and the court playing the Zionist movement Fry Moses Leon, developing his own positive fly on Monday. 329 00:41:52,170 --> 00:42:01,260 I think when it comes to the creation of Austrian icons, we can't we must include the sources, 330 00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:05,850 the Zionist sources, those that came before unification. 331 00:42:05,850 --> 00:42:22,110 And actually, she refers to So PyCon, when she refers to the case in her review of the case, was painted by Feedstuff playing the most safe. 332 00:42:22,110 --> 00:42:28,950 It didn't have anyone, nobody older. It actually nobody ordered that he was painting it for the commission, lighting the way. 333 00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:37,410 It was one of the main exhibition to take place in Vienna at the time and it was bought before it was finished by the NOI again. 334 00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:42,020 And we what was the National Ospel Gallery we had to find? 335 00:42:42,020 --> 00:42:46,350 Now it's the building there when Zuckerkandl we first met. 336 00:42:46,350 --> 00:42:57,090 She argues the end that the Orient are closely related, are closely related, and she refers to the fact that these are the dead, 337 00:42:57,090 --> 00:43:04,110 that the flower is a reference to the Vienna vase, very critical to the landscape of the hiim that she refers to. 338 00:43:04,110 --> 00:43:11,730 The the the gold in the dazzling the orien and dystonic to give that you have the mulberry. 339 00:43:11,730 --> 00:43:20,720 And she sees this mixture of West and East and she says in claim things, strange mixture. 340 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:32,190 But we see also the references, Lillian, the starry night, the image of the man bending down to kiss, the woman trying to hold him kissing. 341 00:43:32,190 --> 00:43:36,890 It's a different kind of relationship between the genders, between man and woman. 342 00:43:36,890 --> 00:43:41,250 But there's the same you can not overlook the differences. 343 00:43:41,250 --> 00:43:47,910 And I think it is critical to see it in order to see first how Jews came to terms with the Jewish background, 344 00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:52,200 the Jewish narratives, with their antisemitism, 345 00:43:52,200 --> 00:44:04,140 and how this managed to create the kind of thing unified the then that the within the Austrian nationalism, within culture, the Austrian nationalism. 346 00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:17,390 Thank you very much. Alina, thank you very much for it, from his absolutely fascinating presentation, as you probably are not surprised to hear. 347 00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:22,970 Boy, I can just say what I would have given to have been a dessert fork at one of Berta Zuckerkandl salons. 348 00:44:22,970 --> 00:44:26,330 But, hey, I was born 100 years too late. 349 00:44:26,330 --> 00:44:33,020 I suppose I think before before I ask any questions, I want to maybe point out to everyone, I mean, just how do I put the Q&A up here? 350 00:44:33,020 --> 00:44:38,680 And I mean to see there's there's a question and answer chat. 351 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,440 So if you've got questions, please put them up. I think. 352 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:48,350 Ya'acov, were you. Are you going to load them up for us? Let me just see what the Q&A is open if you want. 353 00:44:48,350 --> 00:44:53,660 If you have a question, please just type it in. The Q&A thing underneath. 354 00:44:53,660 --> 00:44:57,950 So I suppose I just say, I think what's really interesting, I'm not sure if this is going to be a question or a comment. 355 00:44:57,950 --> 00:45:09,110 We'll see in a second. But you've drawn together so many different kind of themes for me and obviously 356 00:45:09,110 --> 00:45:12,180 for those of us in Oxford who kind of take part the Jewish Country Home Seminar. 357 00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:16,760 A couple last week, we talked about kind of Oscar stress as being the French draught. 358 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,870 No, not the kind of we've talked about, let's say, what we might call the authentic Drahos, 359 00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:24,920 although I don't know, my French colleagues may may disagree with me. 360 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,630 You've got this idea of Varney's nationalism, Hapsburgs nationalism, I would say, 361 00:45:29,630 --> 00:45:34,850 as opposed to, let's say, Pando to German nationalism, which many Jews, in fact, embraced. 362 00:45:34,850 --> 00:45:42,770 I would say and you've got the question of kind of coalition of the Eastern Jews versus the Western Jews, Zionism itself, literature. 363 00:45:42,770 --> 00:45:48,660 And of course, for me, Muehler is in the centre of all this. I think it's I think I think this is what's written. 364 00:45:48,660 --> 00:45:49,970 What are my intentions with this? 365 00:45:49,970 --> 00:46:01,580 That's the theme of this seminar, just showing how complicated and let's say how sophisticated or or are these different nationalist dreams were. 366 00:46:01,580 --> 00:46:04,550 And I suppose I don't know where I'm going with this, 367 00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:11,600 except to say I remember I think one of our first conversations ever was when I was talking about this project. 368 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:18,260 I want to do you know, with this idea of Gustav Mahler, who was who was who, in fact, was introduced to his wife through the food, 369 00:46:18,260 --> 00:46:28,850 through Bettas X Zepps Zuckerkandl, who was in fact whose whose brother in law was the brother of the French prime minister of Clemenceau. 370 00:46:28,850 --> 00:46:34,050 Mahler was very, very good friends with the Klumb certain with Pickar Mueller conducted at the Paris attack. 371 00:46:34,050 --> 00:46:40,820 What was at the Paris exhibition over 19 would tell you about the Vienna Opera Orchestra, the Vienna Philharmonic there conducted there. 372 00:46:40,820 --> 00:46:42,440 He had very good friends with all these people. 373 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:47,120 Not once did we hear someone like Mahler here and talk about some like Dreyfus, which I find interesting. 374 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:56,150 There was a certain Austrian was this a Viennese Jewish unwillingness perhaps to talk to to to to focus inward? 375 00:46:56,150 --> 00:47:03,950 And I wondered if you can maybe talk about that a little bit. Well, what I think and what I think and I wanted to tell you before, 376 00:47:03,950 --> 00:47:09,620 when we that before we started at the top today, there is an interesting reference, 377 00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:26,400 and that's a kind of an historical anecdote that actually shows how nationalism was so critical for the formation of modernism, 378 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:31,590 because in 1910 in Paris, they see huge debate about this. 379 00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:35,990 Milo, if he represents a French or German nationalism, 380 00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:41,750 and they ended up saying he represents a German nationalist, that therefore is kind of excluded. 381 00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:48,740 Someone made a research about their perception of the Marleau in France. 382 00:47:48,740 --> 00:47:54,500 And it didn't show how well he was received as a German. 383 00:47:54,500 --> 00:48:02,540 He didn't get. He did indeed didn't perform his works afterwards for some four years when he was somehow closer to the French. 384 00:48:02,540 --> 00:48:05,930 They said, OK, we can accept that. So there was a kind of air conditioning. 385 00:48:05,930 --> 00:48:09,470 And therefore it was very critical also for those who were producing Austrian 386 00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:15,970 nationalism to produce it in a manner that was very inclusive to everyone involved. 387 00:48:15,970 --> 00:48:19,430 Yeah. But it's interesting that I suppose Mueller as well. 388 00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:23,870 You know, Mueller, I mean, if you're going like his style was very much German in his composing, 389 00:48:23,870 --> 00:48:29,420 Simon actually in his, let's say, ideological beliefs. 390 00:48:29,420 --> 00:48:38,690 I mean, he was a big, big proponent of German nationalism and so much so that that when he performed his second symphony and I believe it was in Paris 391 00:48:38,690 --> 00:48:43,640 and there was W.C. of they all walked out halfway through the performance because they couldn't come to terms with the music. 392 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:51,890 So I would say there's a very different, very, very strong line between between the two schools. 393 00:48:51,890 --> 00:49:00,510 We've got a question from somebody called Anonymous who asked if Bert Berta Zuckerkandl spoke Polish. 394 00:49:00,510 --> 00:49:06,890 And, you know, this is a very good question. This is a very good question. 395 00:49:06,890 --> 00:49:11,540 I didn't know you spoke phoners adviser. Good question. 396 00:49:11,540 --> 00:49:15,980 Because as I said, it was very important. 397 00:49:15,980 --> 00:49:21,080 So let's look at Canada, too. 398 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:27,920 OK. Austrian Washington is built on respect between the nations of the Australian, the. 399 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:33,080 She never, never refers directly to the Galician Jews. She never does. 400 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:38,540 She only comes back to them during First World War when she supports their refugees. 401 00:49:38,540 --> 00:49:40,370 And she calls for it. 402 00:49:40,370 --> 00:49:49,310 She published two essays about assessing the Austrians to be more open minded than to integrate the refugees that are arriving each year. 403 00:49:49,310 --> 00:49:54,890 But before that, you make doing the production of the Austrian well done at Moleskine Moleskin A and 404 00:49:54,890 --> 00:50:01,130 she refers Olga to Polish nationalism and only Polish folk had there was the Polish. 405 00:50:01,130 --> 00:50:05,780 Not that she has like two essays about that pride. 406 00:50:05,780 --> 00:50:10,820 The proud Polish artist and that formation of the new Polish. 407 00:50:10,820 --> 00:50:16,680 For her, it was also the negotiations of different acceptance of the in the Austrian garrison, 408 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:22,760 which will see the different groups, the independent groups of nationalism. 409 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:28,630 Thanks, Alina. Sir, Daniel Hardy has posted a group house to Venus, I would say Gristedes Red Cross spokesman. 410 00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:33,560 He said at the risk of extending the discussion too far. But I think there's no issue there. 411 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:41,150 Was there tension with the authorities who might be both Austrian nationalism and Zionism as threatening to the county council? 412 00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:49,190 Congression, Kaisa Elicia, multinational regime, not culture. 413 00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:54,000 So, yeah, I know. So what's the question? 414 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,120 I'm not sure. Hang on. I'm just trying to read the incident. 415 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:05,500 So was there tension with the authorities who might be both Austrian nationalism and Zionism as threatening to the KKK, 416 00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:13,820 the Austrian as a multinational regime and culture? I owe this visit, Cihan. 417 00:51:13,820 --> 00:51:21,140 Slowly but surely came to be the representative of the very wealthy, the artist of the secession. 418 00:51:21,140 --> 00:51:30,110 And those who left the secessions together with passive teams in 1985 represented the council exhibitions 1986 in London. 419 00:51:30,110 --> 00:51:36,440 Then later on in the United States, there were those who represented the Austrian garrison weekly. 420 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:40,700 There was no question about that. And I think the site. 421 00:51:40,700 --> 00:51:46,940 Zionism was so well assimilated into it that nobody would have noticed it. 422 00:51:46,940 --> 00:51:53,690 It was often open at the time, its art into the arts, its freedom, and within the slogan of Hennesy. 423 00:51:53,690 --> 00:52:01,880 Everything was allowed, including Zionism or the Zionists, a form of BofI. 424 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,220 So I'm just writing something down for myself, I suppose. 425 00:52:04,220 --> 00:52:11,750 Going on from that, you know, I wanted to talk about perhaps this idea of Hoppes, I would say even Hoxha nationalism as a kind of mystical tour. 426 00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:16,160 Right. And this this is what it dovetails very well with this idea of Orientalism. 427 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,580 I mean, you're talking about. Was it funny for an Einstein is unheard of. 428 00:52:19,580 --> 00:52:24,460 Yeah, it was it was it a Jewish German Saloni who brought the Christmas tree to Austria? 429 00:52:24,460 --> 00:52:27,080 Mean is quite amazing if you think about, you know, these little things. 430 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:34,550 But I suppose I want to perhaps go go further into the theme of Quent, let's say, Austrian nationalism as Oriental. 431 00:52:34,550 --> 00:52:37,790 You know, that this kind of this this idea of the mixed culture, Oriental culture. 432 00:52:37,790 --> 00:52:41,870 And I would say even to a certain degree, certainly when it came to the Jews, 433 00:52:41,870 --> 00:52:49,240 was it from a lot of people this idea of decadence and and degenerate perhaps in kind of I would say in a good way. 434 00:52:49,240 --> 00:53:00,020 But I suspect a lot of people didn't see in a good way that they had the idea of the generous generation. 435 00:53:00,020 --> 00:53:05,450 I mean, that which came along with the German nationalism when there was also there's a book by Max. 436 00:53:05,450 --> 00:53:10,800 No, no. I was alone in the Zionists, but it works against modern. 437 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:15,140 Not in. It didn't. It wasn't. 438 00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:25,860 I mean, it was it didn't want to say that the generation in regard to. 439 00:53:25,860 --> 00:53:30,690 And you said the racial mix. I don't think there is. Yeah, there was a threat. 440 00:53:30,690 --> 00:53:35,520 What do you want to say? No, I said miss. I'm not racial mix, but cultural mix. 441 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:42,050 I mean, Miskell to Afghani's, perhaps nationalism is really based on, as you said it yourself on a pluralists and a mystical tour. 442 00:53:42,050 --> 00:53:46,650 Look, urban Nasserism certainly wasn't. But many Austrian Jews took the German. 443 00:53:46,650 --> 00:53:51,360 I mean, you know, if you talk if you if you compare let's say I mean, sort of sort of being a mother once again, 444 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,210 you know, mother versus say, Richard Strauss, the real Orientalists, the real degenerate was Strauss and not Mahler. 445 00:53:56,210 --> 00:54:00,750 It's quite interesting, actually. Yes. And so. 446 00:54:00,750 --> 00:54:09,220 Well, I don't think that the generation as a world was part of their language. 447 00:54:09,220 --> 00:54:18,120 But I'm talking about if we analyse it right, I mean, I there was a reference to elitism. 448 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:23,440 Yes. On culture. The heck that does with money. 449 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,300 Matsubara. There was a reference to snobbism. Yeah, it is Cockcroft. 450 00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:33,410 It was there and also and it took it that looks not cultural snobbism. 451 00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:39,810 That was the reference to. And took account of defending herself against the dilettantism the provincials. 452 00:54:39,810 --> 00:54:48,320 There was a kind of the modern often God rhetoric. You know, there was they said the generate the generation that could then. 453 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:54,000 I mean that two words different. Yeah. So decadence, I would say. 454 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:59,070 Definitely. Most definitely not. Because what is. 455 00:54:59,070 --> 00:55:05,650 So what. What they tried to show you today was how many Negotiation's came into it. 456 00:55:05,650 --> 00:55:10,320 It put the construction of culture on Austrian nationalism. 457 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:15,000 There was a negotiation with France. There was a negotiation. It's against Germany. 458 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,370 They want to or for Germany. There were several influences, coming influences. 459 00:55:20,370 --> 00:55:25,120 There were negotiations with Jewish Galician Jews are going to Gachet nations within Vienna. 460 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,080 But in the end that they were going to the services and ask it. 461 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:34,270 So there was a I mean, I think that that consensus would only come when completely uprooted. 462 00:55:34,270 --> 00:55:41,170 And I think I think they were completely rooted within Austrian culture. 463 00:55:41,170 --> 00:55:44,880 You know, that any answer isn't. And here's another question. 464 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,390 Come up. Hold on. We just scroll down. I'm terrible at scrolling down to more questions. 465 00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:53,460 Very exciting. I'm sorry. A lot of my somebodies asked. Thanks for a very interesting paper. 466 00:55:53,460 --> 00:55:57,680 Could you say a little bit about Zuckerkandl later contribution? Very good question. 467 00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:06,270 To founding the Salzburg Festival Music Festival. How does this fit into the bigger claims about the expression of Austrian cultural nationalism? 468 00:56:06,270 --> 00:56:11,340 OK. So if my my friend and colleague Lisa Silverman is with us, you're laughing. 469 00:56:11,340 --> 00:56:21,740 She would have a good answer for it because she has a brilliant chapter in her book, Becoming Austrian Some Day on the the FSB. 470 00:56:21,740 --> 00:56:30,330 This week says Spieler comes up there in 1919 and it was a negotiation of Hugel from Hoffman, Stulen, Max Reinhold. 471 00:56:30,330 --> 00:56:33,810 Both of them leading football person at this point in. 472 00:56:33,810 --> 00:56:39,720 And it was about the crises at the end of World War Doumbia speaking about the bankrupt the nation. 473 00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:43,230 I mean, from the big empire that came from the smaller bombs. 474 00:56:43,230 --> 00:56:50,250 And here they sat negotiating and completely I mean, if speak about a serious if negotiations, 475 00:56:50,250 --> 00:56:54,350 I think the main negotiation in the South was with the Catholic system. 476 00:56:54,350 --> 00:57:02,920 Yet the run up there are new negotiations and then is still an attempt to. 477 00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:10,720 Revive cultural, also nationalism, but feel new in the wood in the Austrian territory. 478 00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:14,590 The new state. They were new negotiations also. 479 00:57:14,590 --> 00:57:26,390 As my country, just the. Do you mean be part of the new product producing new Austrian nationalism? 480 00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:31,520 As a Jew and how they negotiated and so starts with a fresh feeling. 481 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:39,710 And yet the man from Hoffman started with Max Vidal with all the romanticism and the pathetic element of the play itself. 482 00:57:39,710 --> 00:57:48,200 It's a lot about coming to terms within the Austrian state, creating a new Usted nationalist base and come up with the Catholic system, 483 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:56,960 the Catholic background of the state, so and so the candle continues to negotiate with France. 484 00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:06,420 I mean, she's translating played right this from France and she's supporting it as if she supported Viennese modernism interviews. 485 00:58:06,420 --> 00:58:11,120 And so so you mentioned Lisa Silverman, who is, in fact, asked the next question to Lisa. 486 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,970 Welcome. Fascinating talk. 487 00:58:13,970 --> 00:58:22,130 Do you think that the influence of Zionist iconography on Austrian modernism provided a way for Austrian due to support Zionism on one hand? 488 00:58:22,130 --> 00:58:28,640 Very good question. Or but remain Austrian nationalists on the other, or were these two nationalisms not difficult to reconcile? 489 00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:37,610 It's a really great question. This is OK. I think it is OK itself. 490 00:58:37,610 --> 00:58:46,150 I definitely think I, I definitely think it within itself of it. 491 00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:55,520 If that it was a consent, it was it wasn't reconciliation up itself proved that there was a conciliation. 492 00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:00,450 I think it could come to us. Yeah. 493 00:59:00,450 --> 00:59:10,550 It's very interesting about how. I mean, a question would be how took was to become aware that Zionism is inflicted. 494 00:59:10,550 --> 00:59:15,490 I think the and his modernism was she would have preferred to leave it open for everyone. 495 00:59:15,490 --> 00:59:18,860 Yeah. And Zionism would have been the kind of case. Yeah. 496 00:59:18,860 --> 00:59:26,320 Taking it for the Jews not to be associated with a certain political party if the Jews, and especially she did it, 497 00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:31,640 that she would never have accepted the idea that the that they support to return to Palestine. 498 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:41,690 It's designed with what? While she's conscious about this, I think she was to a certain degree. 499 00:59:41,690 --> 00:59:46,670 She didn't mention her Jewish ID, not in her memoirs. 500 00:59:46,670 --> 00:59:54,510 In her writings, she fights against anti-Semitism directly, but not as a Jew, as an Austrian nationalist. 501 00:59:54,510 --> 01:00:00,350 Now, when she defence, say, at this next US Professor Bannerjee, she speaks about the husband Walson, 502 01:00:00,350 --> 01:00:05,030 all the anti-Semitic, xenophobic and cheat sheet she has at the park. 503 01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:11,300 But she tells the path that an Austrian nationalist what she calls to accept the deletion Jewish in Vienna. 504 01:00:11,300 --> 01:00:14,420 She speaks as imposture nationalist. Yeah. 505 01:00:14,420 --> 01:00:21,800 So if you speak about the idea of silk account that first Austrian then religious Zionism perhaps would have 506 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:30,190 been the kind of an acceptance of coming to terms with the Jewish and those who were around in the interests. 507 01:00:30,190 --> 01:00:36,800 If I may answer to this. Yeah. Yeah, OK. And Louise Hectors asked, were there also. 508 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,710 Very good question. Were there also prominent women in Zuckerkandl Salon? What about Alma Mueller? 509 01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:44,780 Is the Louise. You've kind of kind of read my mind. 510 01:00:44,780 --> 01:00:51,050 I've kind of got Almaz Diaries and everything, but maybe a little over two, Illana, maybe few who give us a more more comprehensive. 511 01:00:51,050 --> 01:01:06,700 And you see both Louise and Lisa, civil affairs colleagues in they herald an earlier version of this paper from which I thank them for their patience. 512 01:01:06,700 --> 01:01:18,430 Their woman in took a candle. Salone. I think. 513 01:01:18,430 --> 01:01:29,260 She was in contact with this woman outside Austria, cooperating with them in different ways. 514 01:01:29,260 --> 01:01:34,780 But she never she had Albermarle of them. 515 01:01:34,780 --> 01:01:46,820 But my mother was the kind of an orchestration of the shooting of the matchmaking between my Mahler and push them milah. 516 01:01:46,820 --> 01:01:55,510 She amongst the woman artists, I don't think she would ever acknowledge. 517 01:01:55,510 --> 01:01:59,510 But someone asked her 1990. 518 01:01:59,510 --> 01:02:06,940 No way. I'm sorry, Louise. I'm not asking and answering this directly, but someone asked a nice no wait. 519 01:02:06,940 --> 01:02:11,410 A woman, the Jewish journalist for an interview and then the interview. 520 01:02:11,410 --> 01:02:15,880 She refers to her father, who going to be checking to see if they introduced it to the OP. 521 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:22,750 And did you stick to politics and the journalism of her father and her father and took a kind of gets the same old father and dad, 522 01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:31,060 the Jewish woman journalist, this. So are you asking me so are you not a feminist? 523 01:02:31,060 --> 01:02:37,420 Yeah. I mean, you have achieved so much. How would you identify yourself and and took a canvas? 524 01:02:37,420 --> 01:02:43,360 Well, I'm not a feminist, but I do believe that woman has to have to play a central role in the culture. 525 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:49,090 And I think that they are the movers and shakers. So I think in many ways, yeah. 526 01:02:49,090 --> 01:02:54,200 Perhaps you didn't want the competition with other women. I mean, she knew a block by watching you. 527 01:02:54,200 --> 01:03:05,860 I'm leshin you many other Solemnis, but she'd never granted them an active role in shaping culture and shaping Austrian cultural Austrian nationalism. 528 01:03:05,860 --> 01:03:07,720 So I wonder if the exception would be the singers. 529 01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,950 I mean, Bar Marie done it for Miltenberger, for example, who is Maltese ex-girlfriend, but also the big star. 530 01:03:11,950 --> 01:03:16,900 Right. This is the one place where women really did, you know, bye bye bye bye. 531 01:03:16,900 --> 01:03:24,830 By dint of casting, perhaps only. But but I mean, they really did share equal footing with with their male counterparts. 532 01:03:24,830 --> 01:03:35,680 Well, yes, a woman on over that necessity was not only inclusive for other ethnicities and nationalities. 533 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:40,060 There were many women both in the gazump swath of the society. 534 01:03:40,060 --> 01:03:47,200 There were many woman artists involved, many leading woman artists, and there were many patrons involved. 535 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:52,810 And there were many collaborations like, for example, Sophie Lilies around. 536 01:03:52,810 --> 01:03:59,980 She has been working on that about the philanthropic work that took a candan with the 537 01:03:59,980 --> 01:04:09,900 with the settlement for a social work institute and the author calling with Adult Woman. 538 01:04:09,900 --> 01:04:17,430 So they will work in devil raising money constantly for modernism and for social work. 539 01:04:17,430 --> 01:04:19,310 And so a woman will part of the statement. 540 01:04:19,310 --> 01:04:26,500 This was then the network, the woman network that we're working behind the scenes and I outside of university, 541 01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:31,200 which is perhaps more Xanthi, is very important. This a long slog. 542 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,230 Yeah. I'm so, so sorry, Ilana. 543 01:04:35,230 --> 01:04:42,400 I don't mean to interrupt. So Stephen Bella, who is quite amazing, this Crusties Q&A, a chat is full of amazing stories of the period. 544 01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:43,600 I'm just blown away by this. 545 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:50,080 I'm gonna say, Stephen Bella asks, how did Hoppes piggery mentalism, the balladeers, roofs, for example, the connexion to Byzantium, 546 01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:57,550 the gold leaf, the kip foubert that the Moorish architecture play into the Jewish embrace at times of an Oriental identity. 547 01:04:57,550 --> 01:05:03,940 And if I could just add to that, that's kind of what I was getting up before. I mean, think of Richard Strauss's Salome, which is it's a Jewish opera. 548 01:05:03,940 --> 01:05:11,380 You know, it's quite droughts in spite of it. And also it kind of in terms of the harmony, harmonic language he uses very Orientalists. 549 01:05:11,380 --> 01:05:21,550 So if you want to put it that way. So sorry. So Steve didn't mean to. I'm very happy to ask this because I think he wrote a very good essay in design. 550 01:05:21,550 --> 01:05:28,120 His own design. Yeah. And is it actually teaching about the Jews in Orientalism? 551 01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:34,330 And he made the argument there about the Ansen ism as an inclusive, optimistic language. 552 01:05:34,330 --> 01:05:41,920 So it's very important that Steven Miller asked this question. This talk of giving out. 553 01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:47,420 So this is goes back to Steven Bennett's argument about Jews and Orientalism in design. 554 01:05:47,420 --> 01:05:52,780 But I look at what? I'm right now. 555 01:05:52,780 --> 01:05:59,660 Spot that that was not presented in Stephen's essay about their relationship, desire and Nelson Mandela. 556 01:05:59,660 --> 01:06:07,790 And very important how important it was to took a time to build a culture of austere nationalism. 557 01:06:07,790 --> 01:06:22,350 But what Stephen Nela in his article refers also to the Far East refers to Orientalism as an open as an open language. 558 01:06:22,350 --> 01:06:29,210 She floated Far East. An Egyptian coming to terms with different views is part. 559 01:06:29,210 --> 01:06:36,590 This is part of the talk. I didn't present today. They there's a whole plot that is originates relates. 560 01:06:36,590 --> 01:06:45,530 Also today, idea of a Japanese term in Vienna and Zuckerkandl in Japanese and then the collection 561 01:06:45,530 --> 01:06:49,640 of a husband of Japanese imperfective took a candle to her brother in law. 562 01:06:49,640 --> 01:07:01,070 This is something that was part of it, but it is less. I think if you come back to Stephen's argument about that Orientalism and just promoting 563 01:07:01,070 --> 01:07:08,240 Orientalism wants an inclusive language of the other and that it fits very well. 564 01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:17,200 I think it was the language of the ad that's an integral part of the construction of cultural Austrian nationalism. 565 01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:28,490 The far eastern references comes up. And I didn't think to that today very, very strongly in the design and also in music, if I might, I'd say so. 566 01:07:28,490 --> 01:07:33,350 Almaz Elmas recollection of her first meeting of Gustaaf Mueller and Zuckerkandl was 567 01:07:33,350 --> 01:07:39,080 their first discussion was about the quality of of the of the of the Debro on Korea, 568 01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:40,970 the bride from Korea, the bride of Korea. 569 01:07:40,970 --> 01:07:49,070 That's a ballet that was premiered in 1897, written by Yoseph Buyer, and was given for the last time, possibly with good reason in 1981. 570 01:07:49,070 --> 01:07:55,630 Right. So it's so great. There's one another question here, possibly our penultimate question. 571 01:07:55,630 --> 01:08:01,820 So that was Berta and Krakoff and was Polish Malcom's based on her travels. 572 01:08:01,820 --> 01:08:07,940 If that it was interactive and and was polished, Moul Kunst based on my votes. 573 01:08:07,940 --> 01:08:21,860 OK. Definitely. As I said, not before, she has very good to say, at least the essays that I've read about Polish national art. 574 01:08:21,860 --> 01:08:28,160 And she makes say, as she is, she's very serious when she writes she is she research. 575 01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:33,500 She thinks that several names of the Polish artists. And she walks them through. 576 01:08:33,500 --> 01:08:37,230 She works in fruit and shakes it. She sells the development. 577 01:08:37,230 --> 01:08:42,860 That is the development. And she shows that the international is the identification of the Polish. 578 01:08:42,860 --> 01:08:46,340 They Steffensen's if she was in crack of this, I don't know. 579 01:08:46,340 --> 01:08:58,580 I can't answer. But I'm sure she had she must have known from a close, close relationship that the modern art scene is unfolding because she's there. 580 01:08:58,580 --> 01:09:02,930 She appreciates it a lot. Thanks, Alina. 581 01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:09,230 I hope this ya'akov any cross it. If not, I was going to ask the final question if that's okay. 582 01:09:09,230 --> 01:09:12,860 We have a question. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. 583 01:09:12,860 --> 01:09:16,860 Scroll down, Peter. It's going to get after unu yourself. It's the second most popular. 584 01:09:16,860 --> 01:09:20,590 Oh so. So just so Lilly just says thank you for your thought-Provoking lecture. 585 01:09:20,590 --> 01:09:25,280 And so, Alana, you talked about the Salzburg Festival. Really sorry. 586 01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:31,370 Yeah. Okay. You talked about the beginning of the Salzburg Festival with Hoffman Stalin's in 1919. 587 01:09:31,370 --> 01:09:38,560 In point of fact, I mean, stuff had been going on in Salzburg the decade before and Malians us but I suppose 1919 or 1918 is important for many 588 01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:43,970 and a good way to end this discussion because that really spells the end of this type of Austrian Hapsburg nationalism. 589 01:09:43,970 --> 01:09:49,850 So maybe you could just maybe that's why that took place. Did you say 1918, the end? 590 01:09:49,850 --> 01:09:54,860 Well, the end of the Hapsburgs, really. I mean, I suppose that's that was my reasoning, right? 591 01:09:54,860 --> 01:09:58,580 Yeah. With what? That would have worked go. I mean, with the with the republic. 592 01:09:58,580 --> 01:10:10,220 I mean, things do change. There is a change in the current career of took it comes in in 1918, 593 01:10:10,220 --> 01:10:14,870 she uses a political connexion with France and she made interviews with politicians 594 01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:21,290 in England and in France and other things to try and make a kind of fire power, 595 01:10:21,290 --> 01:10:25,510 a little diplomatic relations for Austria. 596 01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:35,670 Yes. So she asked them. So do you support Austria to try and negotiate a better deal for Austria and to be less revengeful left the world? 597 01:10:35,670 --> 01:10:42,480 Well, when she interviewed several people and she starts them supporting the it sounds bigger fish, 598 01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:52,420 Feedly, it's still I think that you just want points, you know, the lovers of the case. 599 01:10:52,420 --> 01:10:58,840 There is one view of it. Says this is not the Zionist painting. 600 01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:05,830 But it's a romantic thing, I think, a universal theme. But it's from a Jewish perspective. 601 01:11:05,830 --> 01:11:16,060 And I think the same goes to that. She was not a Zionist and she was not a party for Jews exclusively. 602 01:11:16,060 --> 01:11:27,730 But many of her dealings with her negotiations about modern art before 1918 and after 1918 represented a Jewish perspective, 603 01:11:27,730 --> 01:11:32,140 a distinct Jewish perspective in this regard. 604 01:11:32,140 --> 01:11:36,400 The modern, often inclusive of everybody will feel positively. 605 01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:42,990 This was her humble to the power in the city. 606 01:11:42,990 --> 01:11:48,510 Ilana, I mean, I think I can think of no better way to end this seminar. 607 01:11:48,510 --> 01:11:57,720 Beforehand, I suppose we will be back next term for the Israel Studies Seminar and the reconsidering early Jewish Novelist Ideology Seminar. 608 01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:05,770 I mean, for anyone who's interested, please do send an email to myself or Ya'akov and we'll get you on the list. 609 01:12:05,770 --> 01:12:09,670 I suppose the term card will be forthcoming in a few weeks over the break. 610 01:12:09,670 --> 01:12:13,120 I want to thank everyone for coming both to talk to both of these seminars throughout the term. 611 01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:20,710 In spite of all the technical mishaps we've had and kind of we we've managed to come, you know, all's well that ends well, I suppose. 612 01:12:20,710 --> 01:12:26,740 I suppose that's it. Alina, I just wanted to thank you very, very much indeed for a really, really interesting fact from you. 613 01:12:26,740 --> 01:12:38,060 Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, there we go.