1 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:08,400 Right. So welcome, everybody, to the first meeting of the Israel Studies seminar this term. 2 00:00:09,270 --> 00:00:14,630 My name is Lisa Simon and I'm going to be convening a seminar with Professor Yaakov Guy. 3 00:00:15,540 --> 00:00:22,380 And today, we're very excited to host our first speaker. So to the Rosemary, we'll be talking about the Islamic movement in Israel. 4 00:00:23,380 --> 00:00:28,680 And there's an assistant professor in the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at the university in Dubai. 5 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:36,600 And she has been teaching there since 2015. She obtained her Ph.D. in Middle Eastern studies from university in Oslo in 2008, 6 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,140 and she also holds an amnesty in Hebrew and Jewish studies from Oxford. 7 00:00:40,150 --> 00:00:47,010 So welcome back to Oxford. Her research is focussed on collective identity formation and religio political and cultural movements by 8 00:00:47,010 --> 00:00:51,990 and for Israeli Jews from the Middle East and North Africa and by and for Palestinian citizens of Israel. 9 00:00:52,830 --> 00:01:00,430 So we'll hear from two then and we'll have obviously some time for questions and answers over time. 10 00:01:00,750 --> 00:01:07,560 Great. Thank you so much. And thank you both for arranging this and welcoming me here. 11 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,420 I was also going to say thank you to someone from the Middle East Centre for hosting me if. 12 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:22,440 But now I've said it on the record. So I think that it is a pleasure to be back here 20 years after I started my amnesty in Hebrew and Jewish studies. 13 00:01:23,430 --> 00:01:30,720 And then, as we have been discussing my early research focus on the generally lesser known Mizrahi Jews. 14 00:01:31,530 --> 00:01:35,549 And today I'm speaking also about something which is generally lesser known, 15 00:01:35,550 --> 00:01:43,620 which is the Islamic movement in Israel for and by a lesser known part of the Palestinian population or a people, 16 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:47,070 which is Palestinian citizens of Israel. 17 00:01:48,750 --> 00:01:54,030 So the Islamic movement in Israel was established in the early 1980s. 18 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:58,800 My analysis of this movement is based on ethnographic research, 19 00:01:59,130 --> 00:02:06,570 composed of mostly interviews, observations, and they were conducted between 2008 and 2021. 20 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:13,380 And then the last couple of years, because of COVID, it was via Zoom or email. 21 00:02:15,180 --> 00:02:22,650 So in this analysis, I had purposefully used a very sort of contextualised approach. 22 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:31,590 So I have studied and interpreted my observations of this movement and its activists and its supporters within their social, 23 00:02:31,590 --> 00:02:34,320 political, cultural and religious reality. 24 00:02:34,830 --> 00:02:41,790 So I believe that the context explains why a particular Islamist movement has developed in the way that it has, 25 00:02:42,210 --> 00:02:45,270 basically sort of how it became what it is today. 26 00:02:46,770 --> 00:02:52,800 So this movement's leaders, they operate between what we can say is two main points of reference. 27 00:02:53,250 --> 00:02:57,120 There's the Israeli state and society in which it operates. 28 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,670 And then it is the Islamist ideology that informs its methodology and approach. 29 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:11,850 So as other Islamist groups, this movement is also inspired by and aims to infuse here in theory, 30 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:19,260 the state and in practise the society with Islam interpreted to fit modern circumstances. 31 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:27,390 As a U be explained. Islamist wants a cultural revolution inspired by religious sources, 32 00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:33,720 and that this is in part a reaction to the westernisation of their Muslim rulers and politics. 33 00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:41,370 Now, of course, in the case of the Palestinian Islamists in Israel, the rulers are the government of the Jewish Israeli state, 34 00:03:41,370 --> 00:03:46,110 and the state represents them both the political domination and westernisation. 35 00:03:46,860 --> 00:03:56,670 So I argue that in the case of the Islamic movement in Israel, Islamism is not only an ideology and methodology for cultural advancement and renewal, 36 00:03:57,210 --> 00:04:02,400 but it is also a variant of a Palestinian political nationalism. 37 00:04:03,390 --> 00:04:12,330 So the Islamic movement in Israel is fighting for its rights as a Palestinian national minority group, using an Islamist approach and methodology. 38 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:19,320 And this is very evident in their trifecta of goals, which is to protect the Palestinian people, 39 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:25,380 protect the Palestinian land, and protect the Palestinian holy sites from the foreign Jewish state. 40 00:04:26,070 --> 00:04:31,350 And I will describe these specific goals in detail in a short line. 41 00:04:32,980 --> 00:04:38,350 So I argue that Islamist groups and movements are never the same as each case. 42 00:04:38,350 --> 00:04:42,940 Then of course it's influenced by and somehow accommodated to its particular context. 43 00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:50,349 And this might seem very obvious to us, but actually it's conducting contextualised analysis, particularly of Islamist groups. 44 00:04:50,350 --> 00:04:59,860 And movement is very important because and significantly too often Islamist movements are seen as a general expression of an ideology 45 00:04:59,860 --> 00:05:07,240 or practise cutting across place and time without appreciations of the nuances and local reasoning for their individual development. 46 00:05:08,020 --> 00:05:13,179 So in this case, the context, of course, an Israeli state and society, and this, of course, 47 00:05:13,180 --> 00:05:19,150 has naturally and tremendously influenced the development of this particular movement, 48 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:24,940 both in terms of providing opportunities and in terms of imposing limitations. 49 00:05:25,810 --> 00:05:34,150 My analysis aims to explain how then the leaders and activists of this movement take advantage of the possibilities provided, 50 00:05:34,150 --> 00:05:38,200 as well as navigate the limitations provided by this context, 51 00:05:38,740 --> 00:05:47,140 and also how they then interpret and instrumentalize the Islamist theory and practise in pursuit of their particular aims. 52 00:05:48,490 --> 00:05:55,930 So therefore, it's important to start with a brief description of the predicament and situation of Palestinian citizens in Israel. 53 00:05:59,490 --> 00:06:09,810 So Palestinian citizens of Israel are the descendants of the about 150,000 Palestinians who remained into in what became the state of Israel in 1948. 54 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:14,280 Today, there are approximately 1.4 and 1.6 million people. 55 00:06:14,780 --> 00:06:18,870 Or you can say that they make up around 20% of the Israeli population. 56 00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:27,690 And so their inferior position in this state as non-Jewish Arab Palestinian citizens as very well documented. 57 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:33,810 And they are described by both academics and by Israeli, as well as international NGOs, 58 00:06:34,620 --> 00:06:41,340 as second class citizens who are treated unequally in almost every respect when compared to the state's non-Jewish citizens. 59 00:06:42,060 --> 00:06:47,700 In addition, they're considered to be a potential internal threat due to their Arab Palestinian identity. 60 00:06:48,390 --> 00:06:52,050 So for example, according to the legal human rights organisation Adalah, 61 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:58,110 they face indirect and direct discrimination in the legal system and in governmental practises. 62 00:06:58,740 --> 00:07:03,809 This is obviously become even more pronounced after the Jewish nation state law, 63 00:07:03,810 --> 00:07:10,020 which was introduced in 2018, which formally made Palestinian citizens second class citizens. 64 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:16,120 So it is within the boundaries and opportunities afforded as citizens of Israel and the limitations 65 00:07:16,270 --> 00:07:22,510 imposed by this political system that the Islamic movement has developed and is conducting its activism. 66 00:07:23,590 --> 00:07:28,510 The. So this Islamic movement is established by leaders who are educated in West Bank, 67 00:07:28,510 --> 00:07:38,950 Islamic colleges that became available to them after Israel occupied these areas, as well as other areas as a consequence of the 1967 war. 68 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:46,000 So this war, as we know, had negative consequences for Palestinians in the West Bank, in the Gaza Strip, 69 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:52,210 but it also had unintended and surprisingly positive consequences for Palestinian citizens. 70 00:07:52,840 --> 00:08:03,370 Why? Because from 1948 till 1967, Palestinian citizens were living under a military rule which had included a lot of restrictions, 71 00:08:04,180 --> 00:08:12,130 such as curfews not being allowed to organise politically, as well as restrictions on employment opportunities. 72 00:08:12,730 --> 00:08:13,690 And in addition, 73 00:08:13,690 --> 00:08:21,249 it meant that they were isolated from the Arab world generally and from their Palestinian brethren who were in particularly in the West Bank, 74 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:27,520 in the Gaza Strip, or in any other Arab country as Arab countries considered enemy states of Israel. 75 00:08:28,180 --> 00:08:39,130 So after 1967, Palestinians from inside Israel suddenly gained access to both the people and the institutions in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip. 76 00:08:40,210 --> 00:08:46,720 So the former head of the southern branch of the Islamic movement done very little talk about the branch branching later. 77 00:08:47,530 --> 00:08:54,790 Ibrahim Sassoon, he described the result of the 1967 war as the beginning of the Arab population inside Israel, 78 00:08:55,390 --> 00:09:00,490 despite the devastating military defeat for the Arab states and the ensuing occupation. 79 00:09:01,150 --> 00:09:08,020 So this was because from then on, Palestinians from inside Israel could go to the West Bank, also the Gaza Strip, 80 00:09:08,020 --> 00:09:18,010 and access Islamic and Arab educational institutions and culture that they had so far been been prohibited to access. 81 00:09:18,370 --> 00:09:22,120 So then we had young men and some women who went there, 82 00:09:22,390 --> 00:09:30,790 got educated and returned to their towns and villages inside Israel, and they began to provide study circles. 83 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:38,230 They give sermons, and they kind of started what was the grassroots beginning of the Islamic Awakening, 84 00:09:38,230 --> 00:09:41,260 which led to the Islamic movement inside Israel. 85 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:46,060 And so it is in the early 1970s that we can observe the beginning of the small, 86 00:09:46,060 --> 00:09:51,490 religious, grassroot oriented initiatives that grew into the movement that we know today. 87 00:09:52,180 --> 00:09:58,459 The focus then was on Dawah, sort of spreading their version of Islam for first of the individuals, 88 00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:02,680 then the larger communities, and then, you know, they hope the society at large. 89 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,299 So the aim was to strengthen the faith and observance of the individual and the sort 90 00:10:07,300 --> 00:10:14,140 of practise and observance of the Palestinian Muslim community inside Israel then. 91 00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:22,900 So I would I say that in 1988, we know that in 1983, Abdullah Darwish founded the movement as we know it today. 92 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,310 Some people would say the movement started earlier. Some people would have another date. 93 00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:38,140 But this is a date that I think is the best to use as the starting point of the institutionalisation of the Islamic movement in Israel. 94 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:45,820 And he started as explicitly as a non-violent and countrywide socio cultural political movement. 95 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,950 So as I mentioned earlier, there's this trifecta of goals. 96 00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:54,610 So the three goals are focussed on protection. 97 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,050 So protection of people, protection of land and protection of religious sites, 98 00:10:59,530 --> 00:11:05,260 mainly inside Israel, but also in the occupied East Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza Strip. 99 00:11:06,430 --> 00:11:08,440 So let me talk first then about people. 100 00:11:08,890 --> 00:11:17,950 So the Palestinian Islamic movement in Israel, they assist Palestinian citizens in many diverse charity campaigns to supply school materials, 101 00:11:17,950 --> 00:11:23,920 food, financial support for orphans, widows, many other type of initiatives. 102 00:11:25,150 --> 00:11:26,290 And also, 103 00:11:26,590 --> 00:11:34,510 they focus on generally sort of improving the services for Palestinian citizens that are not provided such effects satisfactorily by the state. 104 00:11:35,050 --> 00:11:41,920 So they do this on a local level through local councils or via the movement's many social and cultural organisations. 105 00:11:42,370 --> 00:11:45,700 So they run kindergartens, food distribution to poor families, 106 00:11:46,030 --> 00:11:50,679 educational organisations that offer tutoring to complement the national school 107 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:55,920 system or to provide them with the training to get into the university. 108 00:11:55,930 --> 00:12:00,940 As you would know, it's really difficult to pass the university entry exams. 109 00:12:02,050 --> 00:12:15,490 They provide income for single parents and also social and cultural organisations for, you know, spare time and free time activities. 110 00:12:16,630 --> 00:12:23,200 So in addition to facing legal restrictions, loss of land and properties and lack of equal opportunities, 111 00:12:23,950 --> 00:12:32,570 as many other representatives of the Palestinian citizens, the Islamic movement, also consider Palestinian citizens. 112 00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:36,940 So is it around this sort of protection to be under real physical danger? 113 00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:41,979 So protection of people goes to sort of taking care of them in their everyday life, 114 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:52,720 as well as actually potentially or addressing their danger that they face that they consider to be physical dangers. 115 00:12:53,230 --> 00:12:57,280 So when I interviewed both leaders and activists of the Islamic movement, 116 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:05,260 they typically will focus then on what they perceive as dangerous towards Palestinian citizens, including the threat of population transfer. 117 00:13:05,950 --> 00:13:10,839 This is a method to deal with the idea that Palestinian citizens constitute a demographic 118 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,610 threat to the Jewish state and is promoted by right wing Israeli politicians. 119 00:13:16,180 --> 00:13:22,389 And they talked about the reality of the anti-Arab discourse, such as demonstrations in Jerusalem this fall, 120 00:13:22,390 --> 00:13:27,770 where people were shouting Death to Arabs or this is also regularly chanted at football games. 121 00:13:27,790 --> 00:13:35,559 Politicians such as Benjamin Netanyahu talk about the threat of the Arab voters or any many politicians to talk. 122 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,680 Israeli politicians will talk about Arab politicians as traitors. 123 00:13:38,740 --> 00:13:46,650 So it's sort of that on the discourse level. Then they also mention the dangers of the violent actions by group of Jewish citizens. 124 00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:55,840 For example, they mention the 2008 Akka riots or the 2014 so called violent price target crimes, 125 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,640 which was both against individual Palestinians and also against Palestinian property. 126 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,999 Another and important element which was highlighted in these conversations was the police violence, 127 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:14,470 especially after the killing of 13 Palestinian citizens by Israeli police in the early days of the second intifada in 2000. 128 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:21,700 So the Islamic movement then works alongside and sometimes in collaboration with other organisation that represents 129 00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:29,320 Palestinian citizens to prevent these threats or assist Palestinian citizens kind of after after any of, 130 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:38,560 you know, any of these events. So victims mainly such as rebuilding houses or repairing properties after destruction. 131 00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:48,999 And in practise, what they do is that they use this Islamist idea where you volunteer your not just sort of you know, 132 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:57,210 you don't just contribute zakat, but you support the organisation by volunteering your time and your expertise. 133 00:14:57,250 --> 00:15:02,440 So for example, when they were rebuilding houses, some a lot of people would come just to kind of contribute with their manpower. 134 00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:09,780 But the guy who was the engineer would come in and build a house and the person who had the bulldozer would drive a long way with this bulldozer to, 135 00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:17,560 you know, so it's all for free. And also the volunteer work camp type ideology, which is very grassroot. 136 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:29,130 In addition, the movement also focuses on the 400,000 or so Palestinians in occupied East Jerusalem who are residents but not citizens of Israel. 137 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,660 This group is under increasing political as well as socio economic pressure. 138 00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:42,090 They are cut off from their Palestinian natural set of Palestinian communities in the West Bank due to the separation wall and the checkpoint system. 139 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:49,440 And so to improve their financial situation, the Islamic movement encourages its supporters from inside Israel. 140 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:55,620 We could say to go shopping and use the restaurants in East Jerusalem to provide needed income for this group. 141 00:15:56,250 --> 00:16:00,060 This is tied to to my next point of protection of the religious sites. 142 00:16:01,230 --> 00:16:06,900 So how it works is that one of the things that is important to the Islamic movement is that on a on a weekly, 143 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:10,710 if not daily basis, Palestinians pray at the Al-Aqsa mosque. 144 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,140 Let's talk more in detail about the Al-Aqsa mosque soon. 145 00:16:13,140 --> 00:16:20,190 But one of the things they do is to provide free bus services from almost any Palestinian, local, village, 146 00:16:20,190 --> 00:16:28,890 town or city inside Israel to take and bring them to Jerusalem so they can go and pray at the Al-Aqsa mosque, but also shopping in East Jerusalem. 147 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:32,490 So sort of combines the two goals in one. 148 00:16:34,620 --> 00:16:37,970 So the protection of religious sites then obviously focussed on Al-Aqsa. 149 00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:46,230 In addition, they try to document and as well as to challenge the what has been done and 150 00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:51,870 the consistent demolition and other uses of religious property inside Israel. 151 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:59,969 So for example, there are some mosques that have been turned into other purpose building, such as even a nightclub in Tel Aviv. 152 00:16:59,970 --> 00:17:02,790 So the Islamic movement would then challenge this in the court. 153 00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:11,160 And so to try to uphold the religious properties and identities of these places of worship. 154 00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:22,050 They also protect and document Palestinian graveyards operated since 1948, where also they have been now re zoned for other purposes. 155 00:17:22,530 --> 00:17:32,040 And then, of course, the Al-Aqsa. So the Al-Aqsa is the way that the Islamic movement sees it under the threat of threat from Israeli security forces, 156 00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:37,230 from right wing Israeli politicians and religious and settler groups, 157 00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:44,940 and especially the so-called temple movement that is working to rebuild the temple and to change the status quo. 158 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:52,260 Established in 1967 that preserves the right to pray on the Temple Mount or Haram al-Sharif to Muslims. 159 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:58,529 Now, as this mosque, of course, is the third holiest site in Islam by acting as its guardians, 160 00:17:58,530 --> 00:18:03,150 the Islamic movement also positions itself at one of the religious centres of not just the Muslim, 161 00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:09,750 but also the Muslim, but also then, of course, the Jewish world as it borders the Wailing Wall. 162 00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:14,700 So the movement is active in the actual upkeep of the mosque, physically, practically. 163 00:18:15,540 --> 00:18:21,840 And also once every year the movement arranges a festival because the Al-Aqsa is in Danger Festival. 164 00:18:22,260 --> 00:18:29,909 It's not a fun festival that way. We think of festivals, but it's a gathering, so they ignore them. 165 00:18:29,910 --> 00:18:37,860 Branch. We'll talk more about the branches later, but the Northern Branch would have yearly one in there in one farm until 2015. 166 00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:43,230 They would hold speeches and rally support for the continued protection of the mosque. 167 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:55,340 And this festival is every year attended also by Christian clerics and representatives of other groups that represents Palestinian citizens of Israel. 168 00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:59,639 It is not just an Islamic movement. I mean, this is not a movement initiated initiative, 169 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:08,580 but it is supported by a broader segment of the Palestinian, both inside Israel and in East Jerusalem. 170 00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:14,310 The concern and focus on Al-Aqsa is, of course, very significant. Also these days we've just seen the violence, 171 00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:19,889 fighting now between armed Israeli police and Palestinian civilians on the compound during this past summer dawn. 172 00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:24,510 And currently there are lots of violence going on in the occupied West Bank. 173 00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:35,420 Then the third focus was to focus on land. So the protection of land mainly stopping further annexation and confiscation of land. 174 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:41,300 Of course, land is at the very, very heart of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. 175 00:19:41,660 --> 00:19:45,590 So today, in the main focus of the Islamic movement as regards land, 176 00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:53,209 is the protection of the Palestinian people in the Negev niqab that are that the state is trying to, 177 00:19:53,210 --> 00:19:56,780 in a process of appropriating, using different methods and schemes. 178 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:05,570 And they're also working against house and home demolition in occupied East Jerusalem, as well as inside Israeli towns and villages in Israel. 179 00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:12,979 They're very active in the land day demonstrations that happen every year in since 1976, in April. 180 00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:19,370 And in fact, the young leaders, these young, educated, particularly men who came back in the seventies, 181 00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:26,870 were amongst the first people to initiate the land day demonstrations by Palestinians in Israel. 182 00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:35,550 In addition to these three goals, the Islamic Union works to promote an Arab Palestinian Muslim identity amongst Palestinian citizens. 183 00:20:35,970 --> 00:20:39,000 And this is to offset the process of Israel ization. 184 00:20:39,870 --> 00:20:48,659 So let's talk about that. Israel ization can be seen as a very briefly as as a two pronged process and some Sami Maha has defined 185 00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:54,180 it as the natural process of being influenced by the culture and language of the majority since 1948. 186 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,000 Whereas Nadeem Rohana has then added a bit more critically, 187 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,350 that calls it an approach by the state to make Palestinian citizens more Israeli 188 00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:10,260 through a Zionist focus in education that aims to make them more acquiescent citizens. 189 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:18,830 For for the Islamic movement. They are kind of attacking or responding to both of these brains, so to speak. 190 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:26,870 And they want to lessen, of course, their influences. How they do that is that they try to improve the level of Arabic amongst Palestinian citizens, 191 00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:32,690 especially formal Arabic, because they live in a Hebrew speaking state and society. 192 00:21:32,690 --> 00:21:37,520 And almost all higher education institutions are operating in Hebrew. 193 00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:45,920 They also are very careful to tell or insistent on telling the Palestinian young generation the Palestinian historical narrative, 194 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:53,270 because this is, of course, not taught in the school state school system where they are educated and where 195 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:57,620 the curriculum is focussed on the Zionist narrative and then of course Islam. 196 00:21:57,980 --> 00:22:07,670 But they are not just teaching Islam in order to islamise, which they of course are, but it's also because in between 48 and 1967, 197 00:22:07,970 --> 00:22:14,900 there were very little available material to teach Islam, and no teachers were sort of re-educated to teach Islam. 198 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:26,120 So generally we see amongst the Palestinian population inside Israel that they have a sort of knowledge gap of Islam across the whole population, 199 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:34,260 and they're trying to sort of bridge that gap. So gradually, this movement has built a network of religious and social institutions across Israel, 200 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,829 catering to the needs of its constituencies such as nurseries, 201 00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:45,540 social clubs, health facilities, afterschool educational organisations, soup kitchens, association for women, art and religious organisation. 202 00:22:46,050 --> 00:22:53,970 And it is through its steadily growing network of these self-reliant institutions that mainly paid for by zakat and also some foreign donors. 203 00:22:54,030 --> 00:22:58,710 I can't tell you more about them, because I simply don't know, because I'm not given that information. 204 00:22:59,010 --> 00:23:08,820 But they do exist. But of course, everything has to go through Israeli banks and financial systems, so they can't be that suspicious, I suppose. 205 00:23:09,690 --> 00:23:15,780 Anyway, so the Islamic movement then from the mid 1980s began to participate in local elections. 206 00:23:15,810 --> 00:23:21,690 The movement entered the political arena in 1983 when it pachuca local elections in the town of Copacabana, 207 00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:27,240 and in 1989 they participated in several local elections and won several seats. 208 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:34,470 Again, Ibrahim Sarsour, a previous leader of one of the branches, described this as a peaceful Islamic revolution in Israel. 209 00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:42,840 Quite a nice quote. It has since run various municipalities and seen members gain power in several local authorities. 210 00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:47,399 And it is important to know that the local political arena is has historically, 211 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:54,330 since the end of the military government in 1966, been the most important political stage for Palestinian citizens. 212 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,080 As this is the level which directly relate to their everyday lives. 213 00:23:59,250 --> 00:24:06,840 So through their influence on local councils, they can work to improve services directly for their constituency, 214 00:24:06,850 --> 00:24:13,290 such as water supply, sewage system, garbage services, roads, public parks and garden and social services. 215 00:24:13,860 --> 00:24:19,499 So what the movement has done is that it has used its new political gain power 216 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:23,370 since the 1980s to improve directly improve the lives of the Palestinians. 217 00:24:23,370 --> 00:24:31,169 And they are very popular at doing that because compared to other politicians on the local level amongst the Palestinian community, 218 00:24:31,170 --> 00:24:35,130 they are seen as unrelated to Israeli Zionist political parties. 219 00:24:35,490 --> 00:24:42,899 They're seen as uncorrupt on a sort of individual level. They are seen as not related to or trying, at least in the case of Olmert, 220 00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:49,740 for him largely succeeding, to distance himself from this old command based political structure. 221 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,500 And also, they're seen as getting the job done. 222 00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:59,099 This I heard from many when I interviewed Israeli organisations or represented the Israeli bureaucracy that 223 00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:07,320 the Palestinian towns and villages that were run majority by Islamist leaders were the most functioning. 224 00:25:08,010 --> 00:25:11,430 They you know, they they did they they got the job done, basically. 225 00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:17,309 So people were happy. So it is based on this the trifecta of goals and the religious, ethnic, 226 00:25:17,310 --> 00:25:22,020 national identity promoted by this movement in combination with this grassroots and political 227 00:25:22,020 --> 00:25:27,720 activism that I described the movement's leaders and activists as Islamist Palestinian nationalists. 228 00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:29,220 Let that sink in. 229 00:25:32,940 --> 00:25:40,110 The movement then split in 1996 due to the disagreement of whether or not to stand for national elections for the Israeli parliament, 230 00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:43,950 the Knesset, the northern branch. And now it comes said no, 231 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,990 arguing that it was not permissible to enter a non-Muslim political system and that 232 00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:53,130 such a participation meant a recognition of the Zionist character of the state. 233 00:25:53,700 --> 00:26:03,120 They also meant that as Islamists they could not enter and none a non-Muslim system that didn't send on Sharia but non-Muslim system. 234 00:26:03,570 --> 00:26:05,190 The Southern branch, on the other hand, 235 00:26:05,220 --> 00:26:11,879 argued that there was room for political compromise with non-Muslim actors when this constituted a local political context 236 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:18,240 and when this is the best way in which to promote and protect the rights and interests of the native Palestinians. 237 00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:23,250 So since 1996, there has never been two branches, the northern and the southern. 238 00:26:23,790 --> 00:26:33,449 These names only refer to the seat of the leaders and the sort of main city villages of the two branches. 239 00:26:33,450 --> 00:26:36,680 But across the country it's not like in the north. 240 00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:39,990 Everyone with the northern branch and in the south, everyone in the southern. 241 00:26:40,110 --> 00:26:44,640 It's all a mix. And I would say every locality will have people who support both. 242 00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:54,780 So it's not it's only because Sharia law comes from Omer Farhang, which is north of Kofod Kassam, where Darwish and Darwish came from. 243 00:26:56,370 --> 00:27:02,250 Generally, these two places would be mostly northern and southern in general, but it's not not a rule as such. 244 00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:08,280 So since yes, and from 1996, 245 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,540 the Southern branch has participated in national elections and has High Representative 246 00:27:12,540 --> 00:27:17,040 in the Israeli Parliament on a list that it's called the United Arab List, 247 00:27:17,460 --> 00:27:21,720 or in Hebrew, often alongside quite often on this. 248 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,200 This is a multi-party system and they often on the list, 249 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:32,670 they would sometimes have other political parties representing Palestinian citizens with them on the list, but sometimes not. 250 00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:35,890 It's a little bit confusing coalition politics like this. 251 00:27:36,510 --> 00:27:45,060 So as an indication, though, of the popularity of this list, it was the largest list representing this constituency between 2009 and 2015. 252 00:27:46,050 --> 00:27:54,150 The Northern Branch, on the other hand, has only participated in local elections, mostly in the town of only five and only until 2013. 253 00:27:54,690 --> 00:27:59,489 Then this branch has been under increasing pressure from the Government and its leader 254 00:27:59,490 --> 00:28:04,889 Sharon Salat has been convicted in Israeli courts on several occasions for connexions, 255 00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:05,670 with Hamas, 256 00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:15,000 the Islamist organisation in the Gaza Strip and the occupied territories for inciting violence and for spitting at an officer all charges he denies. 257 00:28:15,780 --> 00:28:22,169 The split caused a lot of turmoil in the movement and amongst its supporters, especially when I interview student activists. 258 00:28:22,170 --> 00:28:25,739 They are very much against the split and they thought it was a huge distraction from 259 00:28:25,740 --> 00:28:31,440 the actual joint goals and activism and they would like to see a reunification. 260 00:28:31,890 --> 00:28:36,090 There has been talks of reunifications and attempts, but it never came to anything. 261 00:28:36,090 --> 00:28:44,400 And things that are mentioned as problematic is, of course, now this, since it's since 1996, the institutionalisation of the split. 262 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:50,669 We'll talk about that soon, as well as the fight over who's going to be the leader when you have sort of two structures 263 00:28:50,670 --> 00:28:54,659 of leaders and the fact that the leadership style between the two branches is very different. 264 00:28:54,660 --> 00:29:02,760 So the southern branch has new elections for leader every four years, whereas the Northern Branch has kept the leaders since 1996 and onwards. 265 00:29:03,270 --> 00:29:09,780 So these are some of the differences that cause these discussions not to bear any fruit. 266 00:29:12,750 --> 00:29:20,580 So basically at the grassroots level, what has happened is that we have the creation of what I call mirrored organisation. 267 00:29:20,910 --> 00:29:24,209 So there is all these organisation that cater to the needs of the population. 268 00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:31,380 Now we have one for the southern, one for the northern. So you have one Alexios in Danger Festival in one farm and one anchor for custom. 269 00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:36,180 You have one association for use for the Northern Branch and one for the Southern Branch. 270 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:46,740 So that's also at camp level. Israeli universities you will have to organisation representing Islamist students interest, not one. 271 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,380 So basically these mirrored organisation compete over both supporters as well as funding. 272 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:58,950 Now since the split, most academic writing in media reporting on the movement would describe the Northern 273 00:29:58,950 --> 00:30:02,489 Branch as a radical fringe rejection to participate in the national election. 274 00:30:02,490 --> 00:30:06,990 And I assume also due to the more vocal and direct language of its leaders, should isolate and come out. 275 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:14,370 Khatib. And it describes the Southern branches moderate because of its participation and the more conciliatory approach, 276 00:30:14,370 --> 00:30:16,410 especially as practised by the first leader, 277 00:30:17,070 --> 00:30:26,129 Abdullah Darwish, who was quite active in interreligious dialogue and often participated in Israeli media, 278 00:30:26,130 --> 00:30:30,810 speaking Hebrew and was sort of very much seen as an as an open. 279 00:30:31,150 --> 00:30:34,330 Minded. Palestinian representative. 280 00:30:35,380 --> 00:30:38,680 Now, I disagree with this terminology. I don't find it very helpful. 281 00:30:39,070 --> 00:30:43,809 I find that it is invested with meaning associated with other Islamist movements and thus implying 282 00:30:43,810 --> 00:30:48,970 ideological stance and political conduct that doesn't necessarily reflect these two branches. 283 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:56,800 And also, I think it's unhelpful because there is no agreed upon definition of what does it mean moderate or what does it mean radical? 284 00:30:57,190 --> 00:31:05,499 How do we measure it? And therefore, anyone, me, the writer or you, the reader hopefully can, you know, put into it any content that you find fit. 285 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:12,340 And we might not even agree on what we're talking about. And then I think it just leads to more confusion rather than more understanding. 286 00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:21,470 So therefore, you know, if you're saying that people are moderate, is it because of their acceptance of democratic principles? 287 00:31:21,490 --> 00:31:30,670 Is that liberal rights rejection of violence? Or is are we talking about the reaction to state ideology or practises or interpretations of Islam? 288 00:31:30,670 --> 00:31:35,799 And in which case, if we're talking about what is radical Islam is that often it's described as 289 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,220 being determined by the threat that an Islamist group is adjudged to pose. 290 00:31:39,220 --> 00:31:43,750 The question is who is it posing the strength to and how do we consider any group a threat? 291 00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:50,230 Like where are these lines? Therefore, I suggest that both of these branches are pragmatic. 292 00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:56,620 Why? Because both have adjusted their ideology as well as their practise to fit into the Israeli state and society context. 293 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:04,150 They follow the state law, and till 2013, both branches partook in the election system and in the state bureaucracy. 294 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,730 Of course, then the Northern Branch only on the local level and the southern branch on the local and national level. 295 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,080 Both are non-violent and they modify their Islamist goal to the context. 296 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,130 This is interesting. When I was interested in interviewing again, this is sunset, 297 00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:23,170 but I am so soon we were talking about, you know, what is your actual goal as an Islamist? 298 00:32:23,170 --> 00:32:30,040 I said, you know, theoretically my goal is an Islamist state, but how could I have an Islamist state when I'm in the minority? 299 00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:39,520 If I wake up tomorrow and all the Jews converted to Islam was suffering and then we, you know, we can promote our state, but this is not a reality. 300 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,919 So why would I even it's not practical to think about it in their practise. 301 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,820 The two branches are not that different except from their stance on national elections. 302 00:32:49,090 --> 00:32:53,020 Both of them offer the same social, cultural, educational and religious services. 303 00:32:53,380 --> 00:32:58,690 Leaders of both are vocal in response to Israeli actions, both inside Israel, but also in the occupied territories, 304 00:32:59,110 --> 00:33:03,069 and both support charity organisations in the occupied Palestinian territories, 305 00:33:03,070 --> 00:33:09,760 some of which are related and associated with Hamas, simply because Hamas controls whatever happens in the Gaza Strip. 306 00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:13,270 There might also be other reasons we can discuss that later. 307 00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:23,860 For example, also both leaders of leaders of both the branches where on the flotilla there's some boats that go to Gaza to help and support in 2010, 308 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,090 but only the law of the Northern Branch was given media attention inside Israel, 309 00:33:28,090 --> 00:33:32,230 whereas Abu Dhabi's lot ahead of the Southern branch, nobody mentioned him. 310 00:33:32,830 --> 00:33:39,910 So and this is a typical pattern. So the branch that is sort of branded as radical gets all the attention in the reporting. 311 00:33:40,750 --> 00:33:45,820 I believe a more accurate description of the differences between them is to call the Northern Branch isolationist, 312 00:33:45,970 --> 00:33:52,330 especially since 2013, where it has become extremely explicit because it no longer participates in local elections. 313 00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:57,870 When I interviewed some leaders in 2015 before it was outlawed, I asked Why? 314 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,140 Why did you choose to stop participating in election, especially in 2013? 315 00:34:02,140 --> 00:34:07,570 Because they were set to win and in fact their mayoral candidate chose to still 316 00:34:07,570 --> 00:34:13,120 participate in election and stood as an independent and did win the elections anyway. 317 00:34:13,150 --> 00:34:20,650 The leaders said that they had thought about it and they felt that they wanted to focus on activism, religious and social, and they felt bugged. 318 00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:25,629 Down is a sort of a translation, I think, of by party politics, 319 00:34:25,630 --> 00:34:29,320 and they felt that they were splitting the Palestinian people rather than uniting them. 320 00:34:29,620 --> 00:34:33,790 And they didn't want to be part of this this political scene anymore. 321 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:40,959 Now, the Southern branch I described as integrationist, it is working within the system to try to change it. 322 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,950 And this has become even more pronounced recently, which I will address soon. 323 00:34:46,090 --> 00:34:49,570 2015 broke two watershed moments for the movement. 324 00:34:49,590 --> 00:34:52,389 The most dramatic was the outlawing of the Northern Branch. 325 00:34:52,390 --> 00:34:59,530 Then Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu argued that this branch is undermined, the state incited to violence and had ties with Hamas. 326 00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:06,610 So according to my interviewees in the branch, after the outlawing, of course, the this came as a shock. 327 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:13,780 They were waiting for something quite big and maybe losing some, some people being arrested or closing down of part of the organisation. 328 00:35:13,780 --> 00:35:16,120 They were not prepared for a total outlawing. 329 00:35:16,750 --> 00:35:24,700 As a consequence, all of these organisations that I've described that cater to the needs of the Palestinians inside, they were all outlawed. 330 00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:29,170 So thousands of people working in these organisations were made unemployed overnight. 331 00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:33,870 The state had not thought about this. Did not. Expect them to show up at the unemployment office the day after. 332 00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:40,319 Did not have any idea how many people these organisations employed and many more thousands of course, 333 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:48,210 then lost all of these educational, social supportive organisations that they used in their everyday lives. 334 00:35:48,930 --> 00:35:54,719 Palestinian citizens across the country and across the political and religious spectrum protested, 335 00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:59,190 calling the decision a political, draconian measure to divide and rule this minority. 336 00:35:59,670 --> 00:36:03,030 No one from the Northern Branch were charged with any criminal offences, 337 00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:10,920 but the leader Salah has since been imprisoned twice for incitement to violence and he was last released in December 2021. 338 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:18,810 Also in 2015, the Northern Southern Branch joined the new parliamentary list, parliamentary list called the Joint List. 339 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,370 The Joint List includes many ideological currents and is unified only by the 340 00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:28,080 centralising force of the ethnic minority identity and status of Palestinian citizens. 341 00:36:28,540 --> 00:36:36,569 And interestingly, the original idea of Darwish when he wanted to join elections in 1996, 342 00:36:36,570 --> 00:36:41,410 was to join in one list with all Palestinian representatives. 343 00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:45,239 He never wanted an Islamist party anyway. 344 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:48,360 The joint list from 2015 was very successful. 345 00:36:48,690 --> 00:36:56,190 It had 13 of 120 seats in 2015 and 2019 and then 15 seats in the 2020 election, 346 00:36:56,580 --> 00:37:01,229 which doesn't sound that much if you don't appreciate how many parties, political parties there are in Israel. 347 00:37:01,230 --> 00:37:04,980 But it made it the third largest list in the parliament. 348 00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:09,360 This is huge. Despite the success in February last year, 349 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:17,850 the Southern Branches United Arab list round that we talked about split from the joint list under the new leadership of Mansour Abbas. 350 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:26,370 Abbas also then made close contact with right wing, the right wing Likud Party under Netanyahu during 2020. 351 00:37:26,610 --> 00:37:31,470 And the idea was that Ra'am would support Netanyahu in his new coalition. 352 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:41,700 However, Netanyahu didn't manage to establish a coalition, and in June 2021, the Southern branch surprisingly joined the new Bennett Lapid Coalition. 353 00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:47,610 This is only the second time in history that an Arab party is in any government or coalition in Israel. 354 00:37:48,610 --> 00:37:50,770 Oh, but without ministerial positions. 355 00:37:51,490 --> 00:37:58,209 And Abbas said he refused that because he thought it would be too embarrassing to walk around with which you would have to have a future minister. 356 00:37:58,210 --> 00:38:01,670 So Israeli security before and behind you all the time. 357 00:38:01,690 --> 00:38:10,540 He said it wouldn't do him any good. Now, why did Abbas choose to take the Southern branch's political party into the Israeli coalition? 358 00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:14,050 He argues that it is in order to get more for his constituency, 359 00:38:14,290 --> 00:38:20,260 and he was promised many millions earmarked for development of Arab communities inside Israel 360 00:38:20,530 --> 00:38:26,380 and also was promised the recognition of free Bedouin unrecognised villages in the Negev Naka, 361 00:38:27,460 --> 00:38:32,830 which would provide these villages with basic infrastructure that since 1948 they have not had, 362 00:38:32,830 --> 00:38:37,450 such as water, sewage, electricity, roads, schools and health clinic. 363 00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:44,299 According to Abbas, the reasons for his position is that now, as part of actual coalition, 364 00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:49,870 the Palestinian citizens have political influence and the southern branch is the new sort of kingmaker in Israeli politics, 365 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,330 not just an ignored oppositional party. 366 00:38:52,990 --> 00:39:01,630 He argued that he can use this position to secure funding for this constituency and to prove actual situation of Palestinian citizens, 367 00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:05,110 particularly as it comes to planning housing, fight violence, 368 00:39:05,110 --> 00:39:09,490 organised and organised crime in the community in addition to the previously mentioned issues. 369 00:39:10,420 --> 00:39:16,840 These decisions and Abbas's Abbas as the leader of the Islamist party, has caused a lot of controversy. 370 00:39:17,290 --> 00:39:22,570 This has been exacerbated by his comment that Israel is a Jewish state legally and demographically, 371 00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:29,590 which has been a comment widely criticised by Palestinian citizens across the political and religious spectrum. 372 00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:36,309 And also it was controversial that this spring he decided to stay in the coalition 373 00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:41,950 despite the fighting on the Hatami Sharif Temple Mount compound at the moment. 374 00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:48,040 Of course, Israel is now heading to its fifth election in two years and we are not sure. 375 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:55,370 But Abbas and the party this might be able to get above the threshold and get three or five maybe members of Knesset. 376 00:39:55,390 --> 00:40:00,550 It remains to be seen in the informal conversations I've had with Palestinian citizens. 377 00:40:00,790 --> 00:40:07,059 Now, recently, I get a I get an idea that a lot of people who wouldn't necessarily boycott elections 378 00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:10,570 will boycott elections because they're unimpressed with all of their representatives. 379 00:40:10,570 --> 00:40:16,050 And they want to give them a proper hint that, you know, we are not happy and you don't deserve our votes. 380 00:40:16,090 --> 00:40:28,209 Yet Abbas seems to have and keep the support of his own southern branch of the Islamic movement by amongst the voters, 381 00:40:28,210 --> 00:40:38,350 as well as the Shura Council, which is the sort of legislative council of the southern branches of political and organisational structure. 382 00:40:39,310 --> 00:40:44,290 So in conclusion, my publication comes at a time with the southern branch of the Islamic movement is 383 00:40:44,290 --> 00:40:48,369 at the heart of the current political development and public debate in Israel, 384 00:40:48,370 --> 00:40:55,150 where the Northern Bronze features when its leaders are imprisoned or let out of prison or something, says something controversial. 385 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,440 But both branches are in the news, so they're kind of in the news for the opposite reasons. 386 00:40:59,740 --> 00:41:04,540 You can say in a way that integrationist and isolationist and as such, 387 00:41:04,570 --> 00:41:10,300 I hope and think my book is quite timely and that you will have time to engage with it. 388 00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:11,050 Thank you.