1
00:00:00,900 --> 00:00:09,390
Thank you very much for coming out, saying. I know that it's been an want to know hopefully in a few hours.

2
00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:14,910
But we're talking about the end stage of the process. I know this is a time of year where we're stuck into essays and getting into

3
00:00:14,910 --> 00:00:18,990
the rhythm of the academic world again as I sometimes step back and think,

4
00:00:18,990 --> 00:00:20,880
I wonder what happens after the degree.

5
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:29,130
So my plan for today, I'll plan for today is a little wittering for me to start out with some thinking about what history about graduates do,

6
00:00:29,130 --> 00:00:33,930
things that I know from a career service point of view. And then we'll talk about how to draw some conclusions about that.

7
00:00:33,930 --> 00:00:39,870
And then we're really lucky to have four great speakers for this today. So before we break for tea and coffee, we have reached Millington.

8
00:00:39,870 --> 00:00:44,380
He's the education officer at extrication. And tell us about that.

9
00:00:44,380 --> 00:00:48,670
And then we have Holly Harris, who is a freelance arson design, research and writer.

10
00:00:48,670 --> 00:00:53,980
I'm reading out the BNA. So we've got some fantastic stuff to come.

11
00:00:53,980 --> 00:01:01,290
An even more brilliant things after that. For further ado, I want to bring this big question to kick us off today.

12
00:01:01,290 --> 00:01:06,660
What do history graduates do? There are big statistics on the statistics fiend.

13
00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:10,980
So I'm sorry, I'm going to have to indulge me, but there's lots of big conclusions that we can draw.

14
00:01:10,980 --> 00:01:17,190
So this is all gathered from a survey that you're going to be asked to fill in, repeatedly asked to fill in.

15
00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:23,740
And once you graduate, we are mandated by the government to find 80 percent of our students once they leave

16
00:01:23,740 --> 00:01:27,510
and ask them on a magic date exactly six months after the end of their course.

17
00:01:27,510 --> 00:01:33,360
This year was January the 12th, I believe. What were you doing on January the 12th?

18
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,970
That's the magic date. We've been asking this for a number of years and for the last three years, a date affected here.

19
00:01:38,970 --> 00:01:45,330
So hopefully this puts some context around the majority of history of students went into work or

20
00:01:45,330 --> 00:01:50,100
they're actually forty percent going into studies higher than nearly any other humanity subject.

21
00:01:50,100 --> 00:01:51,880
And both work and study is nine percent less.

22
00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,670
There's a lot of people that are combining things, and that's often a group that are looking at a master's course,

23
00:01:56,670 --> 00:02:04,020
maybe taking it part time, was working for less study and a full 25 percent unemployed.

24
00:02:04,020 --> 00:02:06,840
It's amazing for Oxford. You guys are clearly really,

25
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:16,850
really employable on National are Oxford wide average has been at six percent unemployment for the last 25 years come hell or high water.

26
00:02:16,850 --> 00:02:22,990
And history has reliably bucked the trend. So will the new kind of anticipations.

27
00:02:22,990 --> 00:02:28,110
And no, people didn't respond to the survey. This is my subtle hit response to this stuff.

28
00:02:28,110 --> 00:02:33,210
It's really useful because we get to tell you a little bit more about this big statistic here.

29
00:02:33,210 --> 00:02:39,150
So we think things in two ways. It creates. We think about the sectors, the kind of workplace that you're in.

30
00:02:39,150 --> 00:02:43,770
So museums might be a sector. And then we kind of think about the kind of work that you do.

31
00:02:43,770 --> 00:02:48,300
So education might be a role within the museum sector.

32
00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:52,440
So we've asked about sectors and you can see, obviously, culture is going to be a hugely dominant one.

33
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,840
And people are working at the British Museum. And the metaphor.

34
00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,090
And what's the manner, which is an amazing national trust property in books and find out.

35
00:03:00,090 --> 00:03:05,760
And then there were people doing things that people don't expect. History of art students to do so.

36
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:11,520
One of your compatriots from I think it was two years ago, six months out, was working for Apple.

37
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,450
And there was people who were setting up independently and going for self employment.

38
00:03:15,450 --> 00:03:20,530
There are people who are working within the public sector. The charities face and more than I can see it on here, too.

39
00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:23,130
And if you expand it out to cover things like the Ruskin School,

40
00:03:23,130 --> 00:03:28,530
maybe even the history department, you find people doing a plethora of interesting things.

41
00:03:28,530 --> 00:03:33,990
So graduate Rose then. So bear in mind, most people are in the culture sector.

42
00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:37,890
What kind of stuff are they doing? Again, more than you might suspect.

43
00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:41,880
There's some people that are going into what I would call strategic or development roles.

44
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:48,180
So that might be things around fundraising. It might be things around business planning or strategy if it's in the private sector.

45
00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:54,690
It might be things around sales. As people who are in research, there are people who are very hands on making things happen,

46
00:03:54,690 --> 00:03:59,460
people who are in archives and loan library work and social guidance,

47
00:03:59,460 --> 00:04:05,190
community support, teaching and things that you might not expect, including finance.

48
00:04:05,190 --> 00:04:13,140
So what conclusions can we draw from all this data? And before we do it, I always get ask what kind of further study?

49
00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:17,490
And this is what kind of Friendster. So a lot of people are thinking of professional qualifications.

50
00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:19,950
And out of that group, I had your sneaky look at them.

51
00:04:19,950 --> 00:04:24,330
And there are a few that are doing things that are very squarely related to the study at the moment.

52
00:04:24,330 --> 00:04:30,000
But there are those two people who went on to do a low conversion course. There was one who said the accountancy exams.

53
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,010
So, again, confusion's forgive me, I need exercise.

54
00:04:35,010 --> 00:04:41,040
I got too excited about the statistics, the average salary at twenty two thousand one hundred pounds a year on average.

55
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,140
Remember, big rate nonetheless beats lots and lots of other humanities departments.

56
00:04:46,140 --> 00:04:52,950
So if you meet an English student, feel very, very smug because they're average, average salary is only nineteen thousand a year as a starting point.

57
00:04:52,950 --> 00:04:59,280
And if anyone is a data junkie like to mine this, for what it's worth, all the data is in the public domain.

58
00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:06,700
There's a. Yes. Yes. I was sorry before. That's before tax.

59
00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:10,780
Before tax. So what you're your employer is paying you? Yes.

60
00:05:10,780 --> 00:05:15,130
And it was calculated only based on those that were working in the UK.

61
00:05:15,130 --> 00:05:20,050
So it wasn't adjusted so possible. So there you go.

62
00:05:20,050 --> 00:05:24,750
Conclusions. First thing, it's a reassuring one. Not pigeonholed.

63
00:05:24,750 --> 00:05:29,980
So although we've signed us up today to appeal to things to ask for particular interests of this department.

64
00:05:29,980 --> 00:05:35,020
Things that you might not otherwise have been able to access from the courier service, which is trying to save lots and lots of different people.

65
00:05:35,020 --> 00:05:40,660
At the same time, if things today don't seem to rock your vote and you're just thinking, I'm not sure that's me.

66
00:05:40,660 --> 00:05:47,410
Don't worry at all. You are not pigeonholed. People do radically different things with absolutely no effect on their career whatsoever.

67
00:05:47,410 --> 00:05:55,900
However, this is another good one, too. So when I was talking to some alumni and we fill in the service, we kind of get to know people.

68
00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:58,310
And they were really stressing this,

69
00:05:58,310 --> 00:06:05,650
that sometimes it can feel like the first step you make outside of your degree is one that defined in a quite scary kind of way.

70
00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:09,740
And they really reassured that it's not it's the first step, not the only step.

71
00:06:09,740 --> 00:06:15,780
And hopefully our alumni that are here today will be as to how their career paths kind of developed over time.

72
00:06:15,780 --> 00:06:20,380
I've seen nothing. Not a good gig. And this is the last point.

73
00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:23,800
And if you were with me at the induction way back, your mechanist,

74
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:29,690
you might remember me talking about this is about you, not the degree you've done, not the department that you're in.

75
00:06:29,690 --> 00:06:30,460
It's about you.

76
00:06:30,460 --> 00:06:38,350
It's your unique set of interests, a unique set of values and skills and career drivers where you'd like to be, what you'd like to be doing.

77
00:06:38,350 --> 00:06:46,480
And that underpins your actions, which means that we start to revise this model that we talked about for you, Michalis.

78
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:55,590
This is how to do a career in Four Easy Steps is something that we rehearse and we reiterate every point lo our journey.

79
00:06:55,590 --> 00:07:02,810
Have one thing to think about today. It's time to flag up when our speakers talk about things and they really resonate with you.

80
00:07:02,810 --> 00:07:06,430
Do you think that sounds awesome? Try and figure out why that is.

81
00:07:06,430 --> 00:07:11,200
What is the criterion that you can add to your mental perfect job list?

82
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:17,100
Try and do that list as detailed as you can. If someone saying interesting stuff about working with children work out,

83
00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:24,650
is it the children or is it just being helpful that appeals to you to write down these criteria that underpin your thinking?

84
00:07:24,650 --> 00:07:29,260
And then the other thing that is sometimes tricky to do is building your occupational awareness.

85
00:07:29,260 --> 00:07:34,840
So knowing what is out there and helping yourself visualise doing those kind of roles.

86
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:40,180
So we've got four amazing speakers that can help you do that today and share their journey or insight into their world.

87
00:07:40,180 --> 00:07:45,090
There are other ways to do this to the festival. We have these briefings that we produce.

88
00:07:45,090 --> 00:07:51,240
They're all on our website. I've got a few with me today, if you would like to. Kind of an overview document to Virge, Occupational Awareness.

89
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,530
Look in here. It's got some great Web links there, too. And then there are more people.

90
00:07:56,530 --> 00:08:02,560
This is an example of Hannah who and very, very sweetly would love to have been here today.

91
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,370
But she did mention, however, that she's really, really happy to be contacted.

92
00:08:06,370 --> 00:08:10,000
And she left a lot of other very interesting and useful people in the sector is

93
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,380
on our career connect bit of our website to find the careers service website,

94
00:08:14,380 --> 00:08:19,230
looking to create that with your single sign. And you get an alumni account after you graduate.

95
00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:25,360
And if you go to the Oxford Careers Network, you'll see two thousand three hundred people like Hannah were written about what they do.

96
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,450
The good things. The bad things. How they got into it.

97
00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:34,270
And most of them, I'd say over 95 percent of them have it all contact mentor a button at the top Hanada.

98
00:08:34,270 --> 00:08:39,580
Certainly she has no limits on the amount of people that can contact her every month.

99
00:08:39,580 --> 00:08:47,890
So feel free to send her an email. If Heritage, for example, which isn't represented today, is something that's really useful and interesting to.

100
00:08:47,890 --> 00:08:53,410
That's my brief overview. So will have any burning questions with a kind of big picture.

101
00:08:53,410 --> 00:09:00,720
Careers adviser Tom. It's lovely.

102
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:08,710
Excellent. In which case, should we book your first feature? Thank you. And I'll set up your talk, for example, leads me back here.

103
00:09:08,710 --> 00:09:13,350
Say, I've just recognised a face from someone who did work experience at the airstrip.

104
00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:22,620
So I work as the education officer at the airstrip collection, the historic houses, modern Italian from the 20th century.

105
00:09:22,620 --> 00:09:31,050
And it's known mainly for its futurist art and my role as the education officer.

106
00:09:31,050 --> 00:09:39,120
Guys, talk to you about how I got into this work, what a typical day would be like for me, the kinds of things I've done.

107
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,770
And I'll just start by giving you a brief overview of the collection at the historic as well.

108
00:09:43,770 --> 00:09:51,800
So, as I said, we're known for futurist works. We have here a painting by Ballah and then on the far side.

109
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:58,710
But Cheney used to have a video, Liani. So a lot of my work revolves around this permanent collection.

110
00:09:58,710 --> 00:10:04,210
But we also have temporary shows. So four times a year we have separate shows coming in.

111
00:10:04,210 --> 00:10:11,330
Works are on loan to us. And I've left some leaflets on the corner that you're interested in our collection.

112
00:10:11,330 --> 00:10:17,780
So as an education officer, I was asked to talk about what a what I would do in a typical day.

113
00:10:17,780 --> 00:10:24,800
And it was it's quite hard for me to do that, which is one of the reasons why I like my job, because I do so many different things.

114
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:30,230
So, for example, yesterday I had a school group coming in their primary school children.

115
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:35,960
And so I arrived at the gallery at nine thirty in the morning, sets up, which took quite a long time.

116
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:43,250
About 20 minutes. Then they arrived and I did a workshop with them for two hours.

117
00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:48,740
Now, the workshop, I had to liaise with the teacher and talk to them about what they wanted.

118
00:10:48,740 --> 00:10:55,430
It really depends on the age of the children, what they've been studying at school, and they always want it to be linked to the national curriculum.

119
00:10:55,430 --> 00:11:01,130
So this is something you have to really know about if you want to go into education.

120
00:11:01,130 --> 00:11:10,940
So I'll give you an overview of the kind of things I do. So first thing is I give talks and tools in the gallery so this can be for a range of groups.

121
00:11:10,940 --> 00:11:18,600
I've had school groups coming in, primary secondary school groups, universities in my second week at the gallery.

122
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,260
Sothebys Modern and Impressionist department came in, which is quite scary.

123
00:11:22,260 --> 00:11:27,680
There were 40 of them and I had to show them around for an hour or.

124
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:32,840
And then on first as days of the month, I gave a special talk in the evening as well.

125
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:38,180
So I would say with this kind of education role, you do work some kind of unsociable hours.

126
00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:45,080
I work weekends sometimes and evenings as well. Second thing I do is creative workshops.

127
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:53,870
So as I said, it's based around both a permanent and temporary shows and these kinds of things.

128
00:11:53,870 --> 00:12:00,050
There's a whole range of workshops, which I do mostly there. They're quite often crafty.

129
00:12:00,050 --> 00:12:04,010
But recently I've been setting up adult art workshops, which are more.

130
00:12:04,010 --> 00:12:09,560
We have an introduction to the art history and then maybe a painting workshop.

131
00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:17,210
As a part of these workshops, I have to do bookings. And there's a lot more admon in my role than I thought there would be.

132
00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:25,640
I think this is true for a lot of art history kind of careers. I thought, oh, education, I'll be making things.

133
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:34,280
It's 50 percent of my job is doing that and doing the talks. And I'd say 50 percent is sitting at a computer doing bookings, writing confirmation.

134
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:39,190
That's for schools, invoices and putting things on the database.

135
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:41,420
Another part is stuffing envelopes.

136
00:12:41,420 --> 00:12:47,420
Every time we have a temporary shower, I have to sit down and stuff a thousand envelopes and send out all the material to everybody.

137
00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:57,080
So that's also tedious parts of the job. But I would say that's probably true of most jobs with these workshops and the tour.

138
00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,780
So I'll I'll lead these. But often I get volunteers to help me and we have a lot of volunteers.

139
00:13:02,780 --> 00:13:07,460
And this is gonna be true with all museums and galleries. They really rely on volunteers.

140
00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:14,090
So I liaise with them and I have a kind of bank of volunteers who want to do education things.

141
00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:19,250
So they will probably help me be on hand to help work alongside me,

142
00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:24,110
but also with some of the talks now, I'm giving over some of the talks to the volunteers.

143
00:13:24,110 --> 00:13:27,500
So I'm more kind of managing and I'm doing more of the admin.

144
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:33,230
They're doing more of the actual talks also because we have Italian art.

145
00:13:33,230 --> 00:13:39,080
Sometimes people ask for talks in Italian, and I can't do that.

146
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,680
So do creative works. Up next to the family art days.

147
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:46,700
So lots of museums and galleries do this kind of thing.

148
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:52,670
We have a drop in session where families come in. There's children and the adults have to stay with them.

149
00:13:52,670 --> 00:13:56,960
And we set up maybe about three or four activities in the gallery space.

150
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:04,070
And they come and they they have a go at these activities. And I'm kind of there overseeing it again with volunteers.

151
00:14:04,070 --> 00:14:13,350
And these are quite fun. We try to theme them. So, for example, we had a Halloween themed one looking at pumpkins and cats and things like that.

152
00:14:13,350 --> 00:14:18,090
As part of this, again, going back to add me again with, say, your family all day.

153
00:14:18,090 --> 00:14:23,160
I have to market that myself. So you have to produce promotional material.

154
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,500
And this goes out in the form of leaflets, posters and then also online.

155
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:34,410
So there's Web sites in the local area. So we post them the opportunities on there.

156
00:14:34,410 --> 00:14:39,810
Also, there's a BBC things to do page. There's a Web site called Coacher 24.

157
00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:46,890
So all these platforms, we have to use these to market the events. And that is down to me.

158
00:14:46,890 --> 00:14:54,050
As I said again with the workshops, I've just set up an adult arts class series, Save for every temporary show.

159
00:14:54,050 --> 00:14:58,680
So four times a year, we'll have an adult art class. Now, this I don't need this.

160
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,700
We get artists in and they will leave the workshop for this.

161
00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:10,560
And they last about two hours. Normally, I'll just introduce the artists and then I'm on hand again.

162
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,570
One of the things I like most about my job is creating resources because I miss studying.

163
00:15:15,570 --> 00:15:23,760
I miss research. And if every show I have to research the artist, the exhibition and then create a PAC for teachers,

164
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:31,350
telling them about the exhibition, about the artists and then possible themes for workshops and talks if they come in.

165
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:38,430
Another thing which I do is activity trails. So. If you've seen if you've been to a museum now for kids, they have trails.

166
00:15:38,430 --> 00:15:44,310
They have little backpacks so the kids can go around with them. Education is a kind of growing sector now in museums.

167
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:52,030
And this is really fun. It's very creative. So it's a really fun thing to be doing.

168
00:15:52,030 --> 00:15:59,850
Back to another more admen thing, fundraising. So we are applying for funding at the moment for separate projects.

169
00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:07,860
One is for primary school projects. And so with this, I have to write the funding application, which takes a really long time.

170
00:16:07,860 --> 00:16:11,610
And then also with the fundraising, it's really good to collaborate so often.

171
00:16:11,610 --> 00:16:17,460
I'll have meetings with charities and I'm trying to work with them.

172
00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:25,700
This feeds into the collaborative and outreach work. So I've been working with lots of different charities, including of people's charities like Age.

173
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:34,260
UK does pensioner's form in the borough. I've been to them, so I will go out to them with this outreach work and instead of talking in the gallery,

174
00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:41,250
I'll take images and talk to them about our collection, perhaps to people who can't actually physically come into the gallery.

175
00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:45,540
Outreach also includes I've been to a nursery, so I've worked with really,

176
00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:52,890
really nice ones, making clay animals and trying to think, oh, youth groups as well.

177
00:16:52,890 --> 00:16:54,570
That's another big area.

178
00:16:54,570 --> 00:17:01,200
So I've been working with local youth groups and with them we put on an exhibition and I went and helped put up the exhibition.

179
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:07,800
I did all the labels for them and help them run the evening. Finally, education evening.

180
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,110
So for every temporary show,

181
00:17:10,110 --> 00:17:18,540
I hold a special evening for teachers and educators and they come along and I talk to them about the exhibition and there's refreshments.

182
00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:24,090
And again, that's something which you do in the evening. So, again, it's kind of unsociable working hours.

183
00:17:24,090 --> 00:17:29,190
But I say I quite enjoyed this. You meet some really interesting people from the last one.

184
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:35,400
I met a lady who is an etching teacher and I'm going along on Fridays, her acting class.

185
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,560
So good things come out of these things. So I don't whole range of things in my job.

186
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,510
And as you can see, I work with under fives all up to the old age pensioners.

187
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:51,840
But that's not I don't think that's quite normal. This is a family day.

188
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:58,200
I've got some Moines's that's the adult art class or the art has brought in her her work.

189
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:06,090
And then we set up some tables in the gallery space. So they've got the artwork around, which is lovely.

190
00:18:06,090 --> 00:18:07,860
During our family out day, the last one,

191
00:18:07,860 --> 00:18:14,820
a bunch of students came along as well from a nearby college and they they had to go and it was a real buzz in the gallery.

192
00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:20,580
This is really fun to family out. They said one things I liked the most.

193
00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:25,500
And yeah, this group, they made a tree based on the work of an artist called Bruno Nari.

194
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:31,560
This tree was massive. We kept in our office for ages and these leaks about size and the local newspaper

195
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:38,100
came along and they took pictures and interview does and was a good day. So that is my job.

196
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:43,000
I do all sorts. But I don't think that's quite normal for museum education.

197
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,790
You'll probably be asked to pick one of these areas.

198
00:18:46,790 --> 00:18:53,430
So family in areas that would be nurseries, family holidays, that kind of thing.

199
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:57,090
Then you've got adults and young people with this.

200
00:18:57,090 --> 00:19:03,210
This might be youth groups working again with charities like HBK, that kind of thing.

201
00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:12,020
And you might be helping people who are not in employment might be more building up their savings and skills they can use for employment.

202
00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:15,810
Schools is a big one. Primary and secondary.

203
00:19:15,810 --> 00:19:21,120
And you might be asked to specialise in one of one or the other outreach.

204
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:26,310
That's more kind of youth groups. Again, I know someone at the British Museum.

205
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:32,640
She goes into hospitals and talks to them. And then the final one is special educational needs.

206
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,890
So maybe blind people came into our gallery once that had a touching session.

207
00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:48,660
That's quite a specific area. So I think it's pretty useful for me to tell you how I got into this.

208
00:19:48,660 --> 00:19:56,460
So like Lizzie was saying, I think it's really important to think about your individual skills and what you value.

209
00:19:56,460 --> 00:20:00,840
So before I went to university, I did a foundation course in art and design.

210
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,400
I'm quite creative. So I knew I definitely wanted to use that.

211
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:11,750
And what I was doing then at RMIT is classics, English and history of art, because I can never decide what I wanted to study.

212
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:17,190
It's killing racial lines. But during that time, it was the history of arts.

213
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:21,990
Part of the degree I liked the most. So that's what I thought. Right. Maybe I need to specialise in this.

214
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:26,320
And I thought especially if I want to work in the art world. I think I need specialised.

215
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:33,360
So that's what I came here. Did the amnesty and specialise in the modern art option.

216
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:37,860
It was during the year here that I thought. Right. I've really got to get some work experience.

217
00:20:37,860 --> 00:20:43,350
This is the key thing I'd say everybody needs so much work experience to work in the art world.

218
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:47,110
So while I was here, I worked at the Ashmolean Museum for the whole year.

219
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:51,060
And that's when I worked in their education departments. And that's when I knew.

220
00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:58,500
Okay. This is what I want to do. I also did two weeks work experience at Christie's over the Christmas holidays.

221
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,430
I worked for a charity during the year as well.

222
00:21:01,430 --> 00:21:08,340
Could Dakari and they send people to teach English to students who don't speak English as their first language.

223
00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:14,430
And I really enjoyed that. And again, that kind of show me that I want to work in education.

224
00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:19,680
Strangio also went to Spain and worked in a wine cellar during the summer.

225
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,490
And it's always good to have something a bit different because in my interview,

226
00:21:23,490 --> 00:21:28,800
the SRF, this is something I talked about and they really like the interview yesterday.

227
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,120
It only lasted 15 minutes and it was more like a chat than an interview.

228
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:39,240
And they told me they gave me the job mainly based on my personality, which I found.

229
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,550
So I say I've done all this stuff for my series.

230
00:21:44,550 --> 00:21:47,340
And they told me they gave it to me because they thought that they would get on with me.

231
00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:53,070
So maybe it's good to have something as well just to show that you're a normal person.

232
00:21:53,070 --> 00:22:00,360
I also I went I went for an interview before or before the air strike at another gallery.

233
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,580
And this interview was really intense.

234
00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:08,460
So if you read, some of them can be they asked me to devise a whole learning programme for their new exhibition.

235
00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:14,790
On the day they gave me the test and they asked me to make up an hour lesson and then show them the plan for this.

236
00:22:14,790 --> 00:22:18,510
And then I has a board of three people interviewing me.

237
00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:25,980
And during the interview, they asked me what marketing experience I had and I didn't know what marketing was.

238
00:22:25,980 --> 00:22:31,350
So after this, I then went and did some experience with marketing company for two weeks.

239
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:33,990
And I said, the marketing company, why I was doing it.

240
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:42,450
And they gave me tasks that then I could talk about in interviews to say, I've done this, I've done kind of online marketing, which now I am using.

241
00:22:42,450 --> 00:22:49,050
So it was really useful. I also worked at a prep school as a classroom assistant for a while.

242
00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:52,680
And during my undergrad, I went to offer Watermann.

243
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,610
There are modern British art dealers and they do take people long for work experience.

244
00:22:56,610 --> 00:23:06,900
So this might be good for you to know. So I did quite a lot of work experience during my studies.

245
00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:13,950
When I came to completing my amnesty, I thought rights once I get a job, and I knew that to work in the art world,

246
00:23:13,950 --> 00:23:18,480
I would probably have to do unpaid internships or unpaid work experience for quite a long time.

247
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,220
And I couldn't afford to do that.

248
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:29,510
So I had a chat with the head of family education at the Ashmolean and she told me the best thing to do would be get some teaching experience.

249
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:37,290
So you might not necessarily work straight in a museum or gallery, but maybe it's better about building up your skills before you go.

250
00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:40,410
It's about taking the boxes for some things.

251
00:23:40,410 --> 00:23:48,090
So I worked as a graduate teaching assistant school and I taught art history, which was really great in itself.

252
00:23:48,090 --> 00:23:54,060
I got to go on a week long trip to Florence and we had an art history or Cheesa for the whole time.

253
00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:57,360
You get really long holidays. And during that year,

254
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:06,990
I carried on volunteering at the Ashmolean Museum as well to keep up my link with them and just show that I was really committed to doing this.

255
00:24:06,990 --> 00:24:11,190
Halfway through the year, I started applying for jobs in museums and galleries.

256
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:17,550
I knew it was too soon, but it's really good experience to get your CV out there, get some feedback and give interviews.

257
00:24:17,550 --> 00:24:22,290
That's when it came up, this marketing thing. I didn't even know what it was.

258
00:24:22,290 --> 00:24:29,580
But then by the later interviews, then I was more prepared. So I think that's about it.

259
00:24:29,580 --> 00:24:39,630
So anybody have any questions? Yes. Yeah. I was just like I just wanted to say that you are a really good connexion of work experience.

260
00:24:39,630 --> 00:24:47,210
Personally, I'm just finding that my work experience is so quite disheartening sometimes.

261
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:51,570
So say I mean, you go to Christie's.

262
00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:59,790
Yes. I was wondering, did you sort of did you do your applications or did you get specific advice?

263
00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:04,440
How did your house exist? Okay, so there's an awful Wartman.

264
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,220
They had an exhibition on which someone told me about because I was at Trevelyan

265
00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:12,780
College in Durham who had they had a collection of Julian Trevelyan paintings.

266
00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:17,030
And then we got chatting and then they said, oh, there's an exhibition on at of Oarsman.

267
00:25:17,030 --> 00:25:19,620
So I called up and said, I really want to come to your exhibition.

268
00:25:19,620 --> 00:25:24,510
And then I didn't even know what came because my head I said, could I come and do some work experience?

269
00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:28,560
And they said, yes. So over the phone is a little better than email.

270
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:34,740
I didn't even know who I sent it on the phone. I just did so. So over the phone, they could get so many emails.

271
00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:41,010
So I think I know yesterday we had those emails and they they tend to get ignored more than you actually find out.

272
00:25:41,010 --> 00:25:44,070
You got to be a bit pushy. Yes, Marian.

273
00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:51,580
They're they're part of the Oxford museums and they always are looking for volunteers so that I'm sure that they'll still be looking now.

274
00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:54,750
Christie's I find chairs in a row and I didn't get anything.

275
00:25:54,750 --> 00:25:59,600
And then I was at a party and I was talking someone and I just said, oh, I've been applying.

276
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,890
And then she said, oh, my sister in law works the same as my application.

277
00:26:04,890 --> 00:26:09,330
Then went again. Then I got it. But I didn't know. I didn't know anybody there.

278
00:26:09,330 --> 00:26:14,130
That's the thing is just because I got talking someone a party and you've got to be really pushy and just them.

279
00:26:14,130 --> 00:26:18,960
This is what I want to do. I didn't have any contacts at all. And I was really worried about that.

280
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,910
But it doesn't make a difference. Dakari is the tutoring thing.

281
00:26:23,910 --> 00:26:28,770
So that's I guess not a museum or a gallery. But again, it's building up your skills.

282
00:26:28,770 --> 00:26:35,220
The one thing I thought that yes, I was a parent somewhere and then they said, oh this person is an English teacher.

283
00:26:35,220 --> 00:26:41,220
So I went to be an English teacher but actually ends up working the lines. And then the marketing.

284
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:46,050
Yeah. With them, I just email them and they said, fine, coming on. But they weren't based.

285
00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:51,360
They were based up in the Midlands, which is where my family is from. So I lived at home during that.

286
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:56,830
I get things and maybe in London not it might be more competitive.

287
00:26:56,830 --> 00:27:02,490
Yeah. Most my weight experience was for me just asking, saying what comes up.

288
00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:13,910
Yeah, I got some rejections face but he being persistent. Can I jump jump on your point?

289
00:27:13,910 --> 00:27:20,630
Is a really well-made one. If you've got things that are advertised, there could be so much more competitive.

290
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:25,380
So the unappetising market, particularly in this field, is fast? Yeah, definitely.

291
00:27:25,380 --> 00:27:35,010
You're right. If you're thinking about that party, I mean, first of all, you probably are more connected than you think.

292
00:27:35,010 --> 00:27:38,970
You talk to people at college, be really open vocal about what you're looking for.

293
00:27:38,970 --> 00:27:47,100
You never know when someone is like emendations. And then there's there's also the alumni on the Oxford Careers Network.

294
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:52,290
They're fantastic sources. They really want to try to be helpful. So if they're not exactly doing what you like to be doing.

295
00:27:52,290 --> 00:27:58,380
Again, they're people you can pass it on because it's getting is the difference between an e-mail in your inbox

296
00:27:58,380 --> 00:28:04,380
from someone you've never met with no credibility to you necessarily or having someone we respect say.

297
00:28:04,380 --> 00:28:11,470
I think it's worth you responding to this. It's just getting that seal of approval almost to get you.

298
00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:16,200
Yeah. The street does take people on to work experience, serve your interests.

299
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:22,950
Come talk to me at the end. And I was lost leapers without my emails on on the education email.

300
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:27,200
Ask questions. I have one question for you.

301
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,220
And we talked a lot about working since you've been mentioned to to make things better.

302
00:28:31,220 --> 00:28:34,730
What do you think about things like shadowing just for like a day or an afternoon?

303
00:28:34,730 --> 00:28:37,910
Is that done? I had a girl, actually, Kate. She came in.

304
00:28:37,910 --> 00:28:45,740
Yes, I can shadow me for a day. It was part of the state would take her the day when young people go in and take home for organisations for a day.

305
00:28:45,740 --> 00:28:52,550
So maybe you could do that and see. Have a look at that. She was she's only 16.

306
00:28:52,550 --> 00:28:58,470
I think it was worthwhile for her. She definitely was starting to think, yeah, this is something I'm interested in.

307
00:28:58,470 --> 00:29:03,330
Yeah. And if someone was to e-mail you and hypothetically advising you.

308
00:29:03,330 --> 00:29:07,400
But I see what you do just enough to do. It would be valuable to.

309
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:14,750
Oh yeah. Definitely more for you. Just seeing if you want to do that job, because like I said, there's a lot more admon to my job than I thought.

310
00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:20,650
Maybe for Charles Adams at my desk day e-mails, which I didn't realise and say.

311
00:29:20,650 --> 00:29:29,160
It's no. Fantastic. Yes. Massive example was very.

312
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,120
And lots of roofs suffice.

313
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:39,500
It fit well with things that I've heard from that sneaky conversations with people in the industry, particularly museums and public funded galleries.

314
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:43,800
But they've been really stressing that sometimes coming in with a skill set is more than work.

315
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:50,550
Yeah, although when I got the job at the Astros, they said they gave it to me because they were looking for someone who works in schools specifically.

316
00:29:50,550 --> 00:29:53,090
And if you were thinking about going into the museum education,

317
00:29:53,090 --> 00:30:00,530
I know there's any courses out there for museum studies, but they quite like you have a PGC.

318
00:30:00,530 --> 00:30:07,160
And sometimes I see in the museum education bracket, the M.A. in museums is not necessary.

319
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:17,270
No, you've got to see. It's rarely I know they would provide these other PGC def definitely testing the wonderful.

320
00:30:17,270 --> 00:30:27,970
Take a look. Thanks. These cuts by everyone.

321
00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:31,860
Real pleasure to be back. It hasn't actually been long since I left.

322
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:39,600
I graduated from the B.A. in 2011. So it's only been about two years since.

323
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:46,550
But so what I do at the minute is I'm a I'm a research assistant for exhibitions within the Victorian Albert Museum.

324
00:30:46,550 --> 00:30:50,160
And by the majority of my work I do is with the theatre department.

325
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:59,370
So that's what I'm going to be talking about today. So I just want to talk about what exactly the theatre department in the DNA is.

326
00:30:59,370 --> 00:31:02,550
You may have been to the V.A. and you've seen the metalwork collection.

327
00:31:02,550 --> 00:31:07,680
I have seen the mediaeval renaissance galleries, but the theatre collection is slightly different.

328
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,710
It's actually called the theatre collections at the BNA.

329
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:20,850
And that's because we were a separate museum completely up until 2007 when we moved from our location in Covent Garden to the two the main galleries,

330
00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:26,010
and opened up this main space within the Victoria and Albert Museum here.

331
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:31,290
So my work that I do works within the permanent galleries.

332
00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:42,090
These are photographs from them. We have a touring exhibition space in our galleries, and that's because we are a national collection.

333
00:31:42,090 --> 00:31:49,150
And so we have an obligation to our UK public to tour our collections around the UK as much as possible.

334
00:31:49,150 --> 00:31:56,280
And because we are a separate collection, we and we are allowed to have our own temporary exhibition space.

335
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:02,340
So those are the exhibitions that I have been working on and researching over the past year and a bit.

336
00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:08,880
And I'm just going to talk about what researching exhibitions actually is.

337
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,730
At first glance, researching exhibitions is actually quite similar to what you might be doing for an essay.

338
00:32:14,730 --> 00:32:22,590
It's very academic. You work mainly in music, in within your own permanent collection and within libraries and archives,

339
00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:25,290
as you would be doing if you're starting out your thesis.

340
00:32:25,290 --> 00:32:31,350
However, the main difference between researching exhibitions and then researching for your essays is that at the end of the day,

341
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:38,670
the product that you are producing is mainly being engaged with by people on a purely visual level.

342
00:32:38,670 --> 00:32:43,230
And we have next to no text along with our exhibitions.

343
00:32:43,230 --> 00:32:49,020
So it's incredibly object centred. And so from the moment you enter into exhibition research,

344
00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:59,550
you have to be aware of the fact that your interpretive measurement methods are quite different to what you'd be doing if you're working with text.

345
00:32:59,550 --> 00:33:11,700
So probably the main thing I would emphasise with my role is that my role is not to be creative with my own ideas about about art and art history.

346
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:13,380
I know that might sound slightly demeaning.

347
00:33:13,380 --> 00:33:21,870
But at the end of the day, you are researching on behalf of a curator who has been working with them with the permanent collection,

348
00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:26,250
which, of course, in the in the Victorian Museum is absolutely vast.

349
00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:34,770
And so you're working with a lot of archival databases and a lot of objects and a lot of museum academics,

350
00:33:34,770 --> 00:33:39,390
which is fantastic because I'm learning all the time as I'm going along.

351
00:33:39,390 --> 00:33:46,230
And in fact, it was this experience that has made me realise that I would actually like to be an exhibition curator.

352
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:57,390
Further down the line. And so a part of my role with them with exhibitions is not purely researching exhibition content,

353
00:33:57,390 --> 00:34:04,050
but also it's a lot of liaison between different internal departments within the museum.

354
00:34:04,050 --> 00:34:09,310
And so these are some of my main things that I'm doing here.

355
00:34:09,310 --> 00:34:13,980
I am I've already talked about the curator, James, but I'm a big part.

356
00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:20,580
My job is making sure that is this fourth point here, ensuring that the exhibition content is managed properly.

357
00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:31,020
And what that means is ensuring that objects when they have been found, are being looked after by conservation departments appropriately.

358
00:34:31,020 --> 00:34:35,730
I am the point of liaison between the framing and mounting department.

359
00:34:35,730 --> 00:34:44,820
We actually have a department that is specifically for framing a mountain because we've got so many exhibitions turning turning over various sizes.

360
00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:54,120
So I liaise with them to ensure that our objects are mounted and framed properly according to what the conservation requirements are.

361
00:34:54,120 --> 00:35:00,000
All of our objects and we'll have a conservation assessment before they actually go into exhibition.

362
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:08,460
And so, yeah, as I mentioned, my role is ensuring that those objects actually are looked after as best as possible.

363
00:35:08,460 --> 00:35:15,300
So not only that, if we are, I'll be liaising quite a lot with internal and external lenders as well.

364
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:21,840
If we're bringing in an object that is from another gallery within within the UK,

365
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:27,000
I have an obligation and the museum has an obligation to ensure that that object and

366
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,520
the display requirements for that object are absolutely maintained to the letter.

367
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,830
As a public institution, these are absolutely vital. And so my role is to.

368
00:35:37,830 --> 00:35:43,220
Kate, to the requirements to from registar registrar to register.

369
00:35:43,220 --> 00:35:50,870
From these interviews, one to two to give you a case study of an exhibition.

370
00:35:50,870 --> 00:36:02,060
I've been working on for the past year and sort of explain a little bit about the processes that I've gone to actually bring this exhibition to life.

371
00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:05,000
This is called Music Hall, CEQA and the Three Graces.

372
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:11,220
It's a little bit of an odd exhibition because of we've this within this exhibition, we've commissioned a play.

373
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:16,580
Now, this is the first time that a museum has commissioned commissioned work.

374
00:36:16,580 --> 00:36:22,670
So within this exhibition, we're dealing not only with factual information, but we're also dealing with fiction.

375
00:36:22,670 --> 00:36:32,510
And we have to ensure that on those two halves of our exhibition actually marry up quite closely together.

376
00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:44,900
So from beginning to from beginning to end the premise of this exhibition by focussing on Walter Scott's paintings of the Bedford Music Hall.

377
00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:50,090
And so our prime task was obviously to go out and find out where these paintings are.

378
00:36:50,090 --> 00:36:54,560
And some of lots of Walter Circuit's paintings are in private collections.

379
00:36:54,560 --> 00:37:01,700
And so when you are beginning to think about what objects you like in your exhibition,

380
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:08,870
you have to think about your exhibition budget, whether you actually can transport those those objects from private collections.

381
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:14,830
There was one painting that I really wanted to include, which is actually in a private collection in Monte Carlo.

382
00:37:14,830 --> 00:37:17,700
So but that was way too far afield.

383
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:27,470
And then you have the additional costs of creating it, insuring it and making sure that you can financially look after it.

384
00:37:27,470 --> 00:37:36,470
And so all of our three paintings that we've learnt from national museums are within the UK.

385
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:43,670
So this is this exhibition brings together for the first time Walter Scott's paintings of the Bedford,

386
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:48,040
which is, as I mentioned, it's the first time it's ever been that it had happened.

387
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:55,580
And we're displaying the paintings alongside other ephemeral objects from our own collections and are there to department.

388
00:37:55,580 --> 00:38:00,230
This is a court to visit. And actually this slide show is really not representative of its size.

389
00:38:00,230 --> 00:38:04,280
In reality, they're sort of like collector's cards, like Pokémon cards.

390
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:12,830
If you are young, when I was there, usually about that size and they sort of sit on your seats on your mantelpiece.

391
00:38:12,830 --> 00:38:19,730
This is a this is a music song sheet. This the seeds of the Victorian era.

392
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:28,070
And the aim of this exhibition is to bring to life a popular entertainment genre called Music Hall,

393
00:38:28,070 --> 00:38:35,950
which was popular during the Edwardian period and was quite well was incredibly inspirational to the second.

394
00:38:35,950 --> 00:38:45,600
And so together these. I just wanted to use this to illustrate the type of objects that you would end up researching this.

395
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,310
This is actually a still from a video clip here called London that nobody knows,

396
00:38:49,310 --> 00:38:55,670
which is from nineteen sixty two, was a documentary by someone called James Mason.

397
00:38:55,670 --> 00:39:06,030
And so part of my role as well is liaising with the copyright holders for more recent material like that, negotiating rights terms.

398
00:39:06,030 --> 00:39:12,080
And that is quite a lot of actually what I do.

399
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:23,450
Maintaining copyright spreadsheets. If we're going to publish material which has been produced post 1950 like this, like this still from London.

400
00:39:23,450 --> 00:39:27,020
Nobody knows. We have to seek permission in order to do that. And as I mentioned,

401
00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:31,970
my role is making sure that we know exactly who owns the rights to be publishing

402
00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:38,330
what images and intellectual property law is a whole new area of interest,

403
00:39:38,330 --> 00:39:46,670
which I'll get on to slightly later. As I mentioned, quite a lot of what I do is I'm liaising with conservation departments.

404
00:39:46,670 --> 00:39:52,670
These are some photos that I took of our Music Hall exhibition, Objects in Conservation to show you.

405
00:39:52,670 --> 00:39:54,980
So these are the planners of the Bedford musical.

406
00:39:54,980 --> 00:40:01,760
This shiny stuff here is Melnick's and everything when it's being transported from archives to conservation

407
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:09,230
departments has to be stored in Melnick's because we obviously have to handle the objects as little as possible.

408
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:15,800
This is an example of another solution. They prove the process of conserving paper is incredibly fascinating.

409
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:24,020
If you have any practical experience and are interested in conservation, I can definitely put you in touch with people who know about conservation.

410
00:40:24,020 --> 00:40:28,940
You actually am. This is after the paper's been actually stretched out.

411
00:40:28,940 --> 00:40:35,450
When you apply water to paper during conservation, scrunch up like a little ball and then they come back and come back again.

412
00:40:35,450 --> 00:40:45,740
I always find it very weird that in order to. To preserve an object that is, you have to measure it so much.

413
00:40:45,740 --> 00:40:49,790
This is a lithograph from our from our prints and collections.

414
00:40:49,790 --> 00:40:53,370
This is a little dot heatherington. You can see there's a performer there.

415
00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:59,660
She's pointing into the spotlight in the Bedford Music Hall, as I mentioned, which is the subject of the exhibition.

416
00:40:59,660 --> 00:41:04,760
And here this is the person with the pink pink dress.

417
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,230
Here is the exhibition curator in this person.

418
00:41:07,230 --> 00:41:16,820
Their hand is the conservator and they're discussing the positioning of these photographs here, which will go into this frame.

419
00:41:16,820 --> 00:41:24,770
Each of these photographs actually has individual archival record numbers, which I, as the researcher, keep track of.

420
00:41:24,770 --> 00:41:35,780
And so I update are vast and BNA archive archival content management system to say where they are.

421
00:41:35,780 --> 00:41:41,030
Because the moment that one object moves from place to place, it has to be locked.

422
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:50,510
So that's actually quite time considering it's sitting down in front of her in front of a database and making sure that everything's up to date.

423
00:41:50,510 --> 00:41:56,900
So here's what I did earlier. Music hasn't opened yet, so I haven't got any photographs of it to show you.

424
00:41:56,900 --> 00:42:02,060
But this is actually the exhibition that I worked on before. It's in the same space.

425
00:42:02,060 --> 00:42:05,900
Musical will open in the same space. Look very radically different to this.

426
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:13,220
This is halfway to paradise. They're both the British Rock, which is photographed by Harry Hammond, who was a rock rock'n'roll roll photographer.

427
00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:20,300
And I actually think that erm the arrival of this exhibition and also David Bowie is,

428
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:27,410
which is the big exhibition opening after Hollywood costumes, leaves the main space in the Vienna.

429
00:42:27,410 --> 00:42:32,780
I think the reason why I started work in the Vienna is because of my thesis total.

430
00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:39,530
I worked on a 19 for my thesis. I worked on a 1971 photograph from Rolling Stone magazine.

431
00:42:39,530 --> 00:42:46,760
And so I had previous knowledge of the history of rock and roll photography in magazines,

432
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,920
which the Harry Hammond collection is pretty much all of that.

433
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:58,700
Harry Hammond worked very closely with Melody Maker and also the enemy in London whilst he was photographing.

434
00:42:58,700 --> 00:43:00,320
So that was quite important for me.

435
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:10,800
I was connecting my and my specific interest that I had to be a level with the research that I was going to be undertaking at the museum.

436
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:19,560
I sought a practical level. Another one of my jobs is to ensure that all of these tax panels and labels are proofread, checked and according.

437
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:26,780
And according to our stylesheet at the V.A., we have our own particular way that we use punctuation.

438
00:43:26,780 --> 00:43:34,880
So we have to make sure that all of the tax panels are actually in keeping with that to make sure that the BNA brand,

439
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,850
if you like, is upheld to a very, very high standard.

440
00:43:39,850 --> 00:43:44,240
And so and I mentioned a little bit about copyright.

441
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:51,920
This is a this wallpapered background, underwent a little bit of a copy.

442
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,670
Interesting story with copyright with them.

443
00:43:55,670 --> 00:44:06,260
With all of these photos, the BNA owns the copyright to the Harry Hammond collection, which has over 120000 photographs that Harry took.

444
00:44:06,260 --> 00:44:12,140
And because we own the copyright, we're able to blow the images up, make them into wallpapers,

445
00:44:12,140 --> 00:44:22,790
and then liaise with the designers to ensure that our content can be used in a creative way for exhibitions.

446
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:29,180
If we didn't own the copyright to this image, it would be a far, far more complicated issue.

447
00:44:29,180 --> 00:44:36,890
And then you'd have to get exhibition departments in to essentially organise that, which I don't do,

448
00:44:36,890 --> 00:44:45,400
because this is a small touring display that would happen with any of our large exhibitions that go into the main space.

449
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:54,550
I'm sorry. I know we're running out of time, sadly, but I'm also a freelance writer for a graphic design journal.

450
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:55,930
This is a magazine.

451
00:44:55,930 --> 00:45:03,610
I don't know if any of you are interested in the history of graphic design, but it is an international quarterly graphic design review.

452
00:45:03,610 --> 00:45:13,270
And a lot of research and content development that I do there is quite similar to what I do at the BNA for its text panel.

453
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:20,470
So it's to do with transcribing interviews, which is very, very interesting because all the time you're hearing new interviews,

454
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:26,440
learning new things that you previously wouldn't have actually engaged with before.

455
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:32,700
I do a lot of blog maintenance as well. So this is this page is open on our current issue.

456
00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:37,630
Eighty four, which is which looks at the history of Monotype Industries,

457
00:45:37,630 --> 00:45:46,360
very important type design firm, which has been working in sulphides in the U.K. since 1982.

458
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,090
And so our blog here I am.

459
00:45:49,090 --> 00:45:59,140
Update the content management system again, Richard, which is sort of a specialist graphic design Web site and Web site system.

460
00:45:59,140 --> 00:46:03,340
So I followed lots of HMO and coding, which I learn I want.

461
00:46:03,340 --> 00:46:09,070
Miskin is also embarrassing, but through MySpace, you had to change your backgrounds on your MySpace profile.

462
00:46:09,070 --> 00:46:13,780
That's how I learn HDMI. I didn't go on a course or anything, but that's how I did it.

463
00:46:13,780 --> 00:46:18,910
And it's old. I phoned up. I phoned up the editor of this magazine.

464
00:46:18,910 --> 00:46:24,730
I wanted to go a bit more publication experience. And he asked me what I knew about managing websites.

465
00:46:24,730 --> 00:46:31,090
And that's actually what I said over the phone, which he laughed at. So then I think I went in for an interview and managed to speak a little bit more

466
00:46:31,090 --> 00:46:39,280
eloquently about stuff I actually really knew about the previous experience.

467
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:44,980
I've been out of university since 2011. I've worked it quite a few different places.

468
00:46:44,980 --> 00:46:53,440
I really had no clue what I wanted to do when I came out. I knew that I wanted to be promoting exhibitions in the arts.

469
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:59,260
With the pub for the public. That's such a broad title where you can do that in so many places.

470
00:46:59,260 --> 00:47:04,660
So I went about trying to find as much varied experience as I possibly could.

471
00:47:04,660 --> 00:47:08,800
My first job was at a small start up charity called QCA House,

472
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:17,170
which I actually got because my father works at a school that this is the this is based up and he's a music teacher there.

473
00:47:17,170 --> 00:47:21,700
And they were starting up a project for their homeless six formers.

474
00:47:21,700 --> 00:47:25,270
And I got involved in that on the fundraising side of things.

475
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:36,640
So at that point, I learnt quite a lot about budget management, event promotion and marketing because I was working with a group of fulltime teachers.

476
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:43,450
Obviously, they've got a very demanding job, 9:00 to 5:00, working with quite disadvantaged young people in in London school.

477
00:47:43,450 --> 00:47:51,820
So my job was to push them to sort of enable sort of fundraising really to happen.

478
00:47:51,820 --> 00:47:58,640
I had to make sure that I was gazing quite closely with them, have been quite sensitive towards school timetables.

479
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,920
So it was my first job then alongside and working at Kuka House.

480
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:09,370
All of these would have overlapped because they were all part time work, which I was getting involved with at different times in.

481
00:48:09,370 --> 00:48:17,000
The Intellectual Property Institute is an institute that promotes the discussion of intellectual property law.

482
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:23,200
I'm the director of the Intellectual Property Institute, is a lady called Johanna Gibson,

483
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,900
and she is a the Herschel press over intellectual property law at Queen Mary.

484
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:37,090
She actually gave a talk here, and that's when I started to become interested in the creative industries and how intellectual

485
00:48:37,090 --> 00:48:43,870
property reform can affect the creative industry can can affect the creative industries.

486
00:48:43,870 --> 00:48:47,510
So I spoke to her a little bit about about that.

487
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:55,210
And then I went to do some work experience as a researcher and developed a report of six thousand

488
00:48:55,210 --> 00:49:03,910
word long essay on how proposed intellectual property reforms could affect small small businesses.

489
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:11,150
And again, that was that was a huge, huge learning curve for me. I was very aware of the fact I was delving into an area that I had no experience on.

490
00:49:11,150 --> 00:49:21,700
But I was able to talk with the professors and they helped me quite a lot in developing some of my work alongside this.

491
00:49:21,700 --> 00:49:28,030
I started working at the V.A. as an archivist, as a volunteer archivist and then as an intern.

492
00:49:28,030 --> 00:49:36,760
And now I am currently doing my, um, my current job. So I have had three different job titles within the V.A.

493
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:44,680
I got interested in archive work, actually, you know, is here for two weeks digging with Mark over with his wife Vicki in this line library.

494
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:53,350
I really enjoyed doing that for two weeks because I was just looking at so many different artworks that I previously hadn't seen before,

495
00:49:53,350 --> 00:50:00,850
and that was the point at which I realised I could be interested in things which I hadn't actually studied or I came out of

496
00:50:00,850 --> 00:50:07,640
university and no thought because I had done a lot of my modules in the Renaissance and mediaeval and Renaissance studies,

497
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:16,510
but then missed out a great big chunk of history that I couldn't interact with that chunk of history, whereas actually it was the complete opposite.

498
00:50:16,510 --> 00:50:26,560
It was my skills as a researcher and my sort of attention to detail that ended up being my strength with a lot of my work.

499
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:31,720
I think at the end of the day, if you go into this kind of exhibitions research area,

500
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:36,730
you're always going to be confronted with topics that you have previously no experience of.

501
00:50:36,730 --> 00:50:40,870
And that's something to be aware of if you want to go into this.

502
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:42,130
But don't be afraid of it.

503
00:50:42,130 --> 00:50:49,120
And just because you haven't studied or written an essay on it, that doesn't mean that you won't be fantastic at researching it.

504
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:57,070
So I think my last night is any advice for working in a big museum in big museums?

505
00:50:57,070 --> 00:51:01,240
Definitely. Make sure you're researching the aims of the of the institution.

506
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:08,170
My interview with the with the Vienna, it was quite. It's quite actually my um,

507
00:51:08,170 --> 00:51:18,280
the first thing my the director of the theatre and performance department asked me was if you were curating an exhibition on David Bowie,

508
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:26,800
what would you do? I the most I knew about David Bowie was the fact that he did a song called Let's Dance in 1983.

509
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,190
I knew absolutely nothing about him off of him. Other than that.

510
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:40,090
But. So that was I should have probably researched that they were going to do an exhibition or David Bowie before I actually went there.

511
00:51:40,090 --> 00:51:46,150
In the end, I think managed to get through it and convince the most critical person.

512
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:55,630
And the reason that they asked me to come and do the internship was because of my approach to exhibition interpretation.

513
00:51:55,630 --> 00:52:04,000
I started talking in my interview a little bit about the creative process and how if I was curating an exhibition,

514
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,920
I'd start off with the beginnings of how a song sort of got made with the lyrics.

515
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:19,290
These more and these more social context related related things definitely stay positive.

516
00:52:19,290 --> 00:52:25,490
I can speak for someone who's coming out would be a cause. I haven't done any postgraduate qualifications, but I must be a student.

517
00:52:25,490 --> 00:52:28,470
I'm coming out into the quite difficult world of work.

518
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:34,920
You are highly likely to get not quite a lot of rejections, but it's very, very difficult to get work.

519
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:40,480
And I think similar to what Ruth said, just stay positive and absolutely stay positive.

520
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,010
Understand your own skill sets and what makes you you.

521
00:52:45,010 --> 00:52:54,160
At the end of the day, it is your interests which absolutely define you and your USP unique selling point, as I think.

522
00:52:54,160 --> 00:53:00,010
I think it's gonna get involved in a lot of extra curricular stuff.

523
00:53:00,010 --> 00:53:09,100
I worked in the other reason why I got interested in working in theatres, because I've done quite a lot of theatre with the drama society here.

524
00:53:09,100 --> 00:53:17,410
And if it wasn't for that experience and if it wasn't for that production experience, I don't think that I'd be doing what I'm doing today.

525
00:53:17,410 --> 00:53:23,990
I also was involved with the Ed Goodwin society when it first started, and that was quite important in my interview as well,

526
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:31,570
sort of talking about what had in society does and why we decided to start it up and be open minded.

527
00:53:31,570 --> 00:53:39,520
I think my made my mistake that I made when I came out of uni was pigeonholing myself and only wanting to work in the creative arts.

528
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:47,950
And at the end of the day, my work experience was in a school, was a legal research institute, and through working in those various fields.

529
00:53:47,950 --> 00:53:55,180
I sort of found out what I was actually interested in, what specific tasks I liked undertaking.

530
00:53:55,180 --> 00:54:03,540
And yes, I said finally, you know your interest. No, we won't be confident in yourself.

531
00:54:03,540 --> 00:54:12,050
Any questions? OK.

532
00:54:12,050 --> 00:54:20,170
OK. So how is it how markets and how high did you think it was like to acquire work experience, which you not only paid?

533
00:54:20,170 --> 00:54:23,770
Like it just internships while you know, why not?

534
00:54:23,770 --> 00:54:31,030
Sarah. Nothing upside. Yeah, this is some, I think, quite a difficult thing, which actually I didn't mention,

535
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:39,700
but I was very lucky because I already lived in London and so I was able to live at home and complete these unpaid work.

536
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:44,340
And what experience placements, which I think is inevitable.

537
00:54:44,340 --> 00:54:50,130
But one thing that I have learnt, if you live out of London,

538
00:54:50,130 --> 00:54:57,180
I think a lot of museums in London quite respect your work that you're undertaking within your local museums and galleries.

539
00:54:57,180 --> 00:55:01,560
If you have to move back home, I understand that that's not necessarily the case for some people.

540
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:05,310
I think working in local museums, local collections, getting involved in charity work,

541
00:55:05,310 --> 00:55:11,820
showing that you're being proactive all the time is is really quite helpful when

542
00:55:11,820 --> 00:55:16,980
you then get to the stage where you feel as though you can be applying for jobs, you know, going go local.

543
00:55:16,980 --> 00:55:25,500
London was local for me. Why? It's. You mentioned that you feel Virginia as well.

544
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:31,740
Do you have any advice? Yeah, I'm I called up similar to Ruth.

545
00:55:31,740 --> 00:55:43,150
I think being pushy in the media, direct, direct interaction with whoever is going to be employing you definitely sets a lot better than an email.

546
00:55:43,150 --> 00:55:50,160
Email can be not necessarily passive, but you definitely, definitely need to push.

547
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,310
I would call up. That's my one big advice.

548
00:55:53,310 --> 00:56:01,050
Go to actually some if you're able to as well may maybe trying to find out the offices and actually go though with your CV and give them to someone.

549
00:56:01,050 --> 00:56:07,560
Might it help having that? That's an extra bit further, I think with the media sometimes.

550
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:20,460
Sometimes that helps. Yeah. He sticks to his if we have a small break now and he still back here at ten past three.

551
00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:26,790
That's okay for everybody. And then we put his cigar speakers before we invite the whole panel of terrorism questions.

552
00:56:26,790 --> 00:56:39,010
And I think you ties funding this. OK.

553
00:56:39,010 --> 00:56:43,390
Thank you so much for coming back in. We really have to see.

554
00:56:43,390 --> 00:56:49,220
Three amazing speakers. So we got to start with Katherine and Toby from Christie.

555
00:56:49,220 --> 00:56:58,530
Their work is getting in and ways to do it. And I believe that needs to be this from a father, the ultimate official development agency.

556
00:56:58,530 --> 00:57:06,500
He'll be talking about her work locally in the public sector, volunteering opportunity and our entire panel.

557
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:12,780
Back to you. Everyone, a lot of comments.

558
00:57:12,780 --> 00:57:24,850
So, Katherine and I wish you would do everything differently to try and play for money saving money on the recruitment manager for Christie in Europe.

559
00:57:24,850 --> 00:57:31,530
This is my colleague, Catherine Arnold. She's an associate specialist with the Post One Contemporary Department in London.

560
00:57:31,530 --> 00:57:36,920
And I just wanted to talk to you briefly today about Christie's briefly and then obviously some

561
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:42,350
weeks when three of four when you're either in your summer holidays or once you've graduated.

562
00:57:42,350 --> 00:57:47,270
So for those of you who don't know, Chris, these are the world's largest art business.

563
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:54,440
And to give you an idea of the scale, we're about 2400 people across 50 offices in 30 countries.

564
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,890
Last year, our revenues were about three point six billion pounds.

565
00:57:57,890 --> 00:58:08,690
So it's quite a big enterprise, as you can see. And in terms of the business, we have quite a few weeks of entry for graduates.

566
00:58:08,690 --> 00:58:15,770
We operate a work experience scheme, which is two weeks experience in any given department across Christie's.

567
00:58:15,770 --> 00:58:20,390
It's an unpaid work experience, but it gives you gives you the department.

568
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:26,480
It gives you an opportunity to meet people and just get your name out there on a more formal level.

569
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:33,740
I guess we have a six month paid internship programme. So I guess this is more appropriate once he graduates it.

570
00:58:33,740 --> 00:58:40,730
That's a great route of entry. I mean, you've got quite a few interns and you could start within the department at the moment.

571
00:58:40,730 --> 00:58:44,570
It. Again, a much more embedded programme.

572
00:58:44,570 --> 00:58:50,540
And you really get to see what the auction business is all around and obviously hopefully end up with a with a

573
00:58:50,540 --> 00:58:58,550
longer term career that will take on about two thirds of our interns into a long term role within Christie's,

574
00:58:58,550 --> 00:59:03,960
whether it be a fixed term contract or indeed, of course, a permanent role with us.

575
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:11,660
And I guess the other thing I wanted to highlight was we don't just have careers in the art departments.

576
00:59:11,660 --> 00:59:15,770
Obviously, there are careers along, especially as varied as companies or highlight to you.

577
00:59:15,770 --> 00:59:20,120
But there are numerous other areas of the business where you can have a really rewarding career

578
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:25,820
coming from an art history background that might well be focussed or touching our day to day,

579
00:59:25,820 --> 00:59:29,360
but certainly supporting the business. So we have business managers.

580
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:30,740
I know that works in departments.

581
00:59:30,740 --> 00:59:41,630
Who do you know, kind of a very beautiful trail involving, you know, planning for the sales strategy, human resources for the department.

582
00:59:41,630 --> 00:59:48,830
There's a bit of fine arts in there. So an extremely broad road and one for which you don't have to have any commercial background necessarily.

583
00:59:48,830 --> 00:59:55,760
There are many people who are business minded at Christie's who have come from a history of art background.

584
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,140
I just wanted to say, obviously, I'm here today to briefly speak to you,

585
00:59:59,140 --> 01:00:03,200
but obviously take any questions you have on the day when this session's over.

586
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:08,480
I'm more than happy to have kind of one-to-one conversations about anything that might interest you or reach into Christie's.

587
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:14,220
So I guess if I had that discussion now for her to take a bit more about the actual auction department,

588
01:00:14,220 --> 01:00:21,030
then we can field any questions from you after that. Okay, so, yeah, I'm Catherine.

589
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:26,730
I did I studied to Oxford, but it wasn't part of our history school because it wasn't around when I was here.

590
01:00:26,730 --> 01:00:34,920
I graduated in 2006. It started 2004. So I studied social sciences to geography as an undergrad at Teddi Hall and

591
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,910
then went on to did my postgrad and international relations at the court hold.

592
01:00:38,910 --> 01:00:45,030
And then, as I say to UCLA, I went to the dark side and they went and worked in finance for two years.

593
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:52,180
Which was, yeah, really interesting. And learning experience, but ultimately not the one that I really wanted to follow.

594
01:00:52,180 --> 01:00:58,440
And I guess, yeah, as you all have, I'm sure, a real interest in a certain specific period of time in our history.

595
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:07,520
I had you know, I would. I'd always kind of followed the post-war immediate post-war 1960s art and then straight through to the contemporary.

596
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:14,280
And I kind of thought that maybe 2009 was a good time to really go back and study again and then kind of take a path will

597
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:20,190
take a career down a path that I thought that I would really love and therefore maybe at some point really excel at.

598
01:01:20,190 --> 01:01:25,980
So I went to the court old did my master's degree that in contemporary art and yeah,

599
01:01:25,980 --> 01:01:32,460
finally found my way into Kristie's through sort of a quite Securitas route, trying out the galleries.

600
01:01:32,460 --> 01:01:35,790
First I went to the guys in gallery for a short while.

601
01:01:35,790 --> 01:01:41,910
Then went to Sotheby's as an intern and then finally got offered a job at Christie's and then made the jump.

602
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:52,230
So I think as to who was saying, like the most conventional route into an auction house and suddenly to us is to kind of follow the internship path.

603
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:57,750
And I guess this is something that everyone is increasingly familiar with now because, you know, the job market is quite difficult.

604
01:01:57,750 --> 01:02:03,240
Right. So the thing that is growing at the moment is contemporary art, where we've seen that in the last year.

605
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:07,560
We've had record sales both in New York in May and then again in November.

606
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:13,950
And then we had record sales in June in London. And essentially our department has really, really grown some of the other departments.

607
01:02:13,950 --> 01:02:16,260
You know, the old Masters, Impressionist and modern,

608
01:02:16,260 --> 01:02:23,850
they're also very large departments and have a real requirement for very skilled graduates and undergraduates like you guys, really.

609
01:02:23,850 --> 01:02:27,440
So people that come in, it's not for us at the auction house.

610
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:32,640
But if you come in as an intern, you're not someone who's sitting there making coffee. That's absolutely not what we're interested in.

611
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:39,960
We don't need people to make coffee. Ever ask themselves really what we need is support, you know, pricing.

612
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:49,110
So that means going to a kind of big art prise databases and helping us sort of prepare comparative work so that we can help price things.

613
01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:54,270
Valuations support sort of when we go and look at an art collection,

614
01:02:54,270 --> 01:03:00,330
a large collection with lots of different artists and artworks to know kind of what the price points really should be for these artworks.

615
01:03:00,330 --> 01:03:09,720
So we have our interns really like learn as they're working with us and then by process and by function of that, helping us with what we do as a job.

616
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:17,280
I guess the most essential thing, I guess as an intern and then thereafter, if you follow the specialist route, is the preparation for the auction.

617
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:23,130
Obviously, that's the kind of imitators of our business or the private sellers is becoming increasingly important.

618
01:03:23,130 --> 01:03:26,880
But essentially, for me in my job on a day to day basis,

619
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:35,040
what we're kind of concerned with is finding consignments and then that whole road from guessing an artwork consigned to the sale,

620
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:43,740
then to bringing it to auction. So that really entails an awful lot of work in producing these kind of really hefty terms, these auction catalogues.

621
01:03:43,740 --> 01:03:50,490
I only bought one because, frankly, I couldn't carry more than one. So that plus my other private sale catalogue.

622
01:03:50,490 --> 01:03:52,620
I'm going to leave these with you guys.

623
01:03:52,620 --> 01:04:00,240
But essentially what interns do then, what the junior specialists do and what you know, as you go off in your specialist.

624
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,270
Everyone is very busy working out the story of a painting.

625
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:13,180
So, you know, we're selling this beautiful piece, Joik, which is on the front the catalogue, but I don't know if particular easy picture to see.

626
01:04:13,180 --> 01:04:21,220
That's kind of it. It's a really spectacular work, kind of estimates in the range of well, for six million pounds.

627
01:04:21,220 --> 01:04:24,910
And it's, you know, the story of it.

628
01:04:24,910 --> 01:04:30,130
You know who it's been affirmed by certain at a certain point this particular what was owned by Saatchi.

629
01:04:30,130 --> 01:04:34,870
And then each line of provenance as you go through its history is essential to a purchaser.

630
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:39,460
So these sort of things, researching which exhibitions it's been and you can't miss an exhibition,

631
01:04:39,460 --> 01:04:44,080
you need to give all the facts as they are to the person who's actually going to buy it.

632
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:50,530
And then obviously, the art history bit the bit where you're actually engaging with an artwork and explaining to a potential patch.

633
01:04:50,530 --> 01:04:56,590
So why something is really as special as it is. So that's really how I started at Christie's.

634
01:04:56,590 --> 01:05:03,610
I came in kind of and sort of was a bit of a new role that I'd undertaken, which was to look after all of the kind of art,

635
01:05:03,610 --> 01:05:10,300
historical and I guess marketing content of these big books, if you like.

636
01:05:10,300 --> 01:05:15,790
So I've worked on all the really major high value lots producing these, cataloguing extra.

637
01:05:15,790 --> 01:05:25,000
And sitting there with my boss and I poring over the details of which exhibition the bacon was in in 1954 and going through old catalogues in the.

638
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:30,880
And it's really almost like you're back at school again, which is kind of funny. And yet, obviously you're telling a commercial story.

639
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,890
So I guess from my perspective,

640
01:05:32,890 --> 01:05:40,630
why I would say it's a good option sort of going down the specialist route is that if you love the kind of smarts that you get to do,

641
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:46,030
what's your hair and what's your studying? And if you love it at Masters level and all of that kind of thing,

642
01:05:46,030 --> 01:05:53,620
then you can kind of apply it to something which actually is commercial and fundamentally may give you a wonderful career,

643
01:05:53,620 --> 01:06:03,190
but you still get to retain that kind of historical integrity. So to that end, because I couldn't put together a PowerPoint, saved my life,

644
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:10,640
I've put together or sort of set up some links to some of the videos we kind of do every season for the big, big lots.

645
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:15,470
It's one of the ways we secure major paintings is to provide these sort of firm special marketing materials.

646
01:06:15,470 --> 01:06:17,380
So we do these fantastic films,

647
01:06:17,380 --> 01:06:22,960
which really kind of if I've kind of undertaken a lot of research for something they often build into this great film story.

648
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,630
So I've basically pulled up a couple.

649
01:06:25,630 --> 01:06:33,430
There's one Statue of Liberty by Andy Warhol, which is one of the only 3-D works which we sold in New York just recently in November.

650
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:38,410
And then the David Hockney, which is coming up. It's an early work from 1963.

651
01:06:38,410 --> 01:06:45,850
So I just thought that would be quite a fun thing to look at. Plus, we have the majority of it is, as I say, like putting together this catalogue.

652
01:06:45,850 --> 01:06:52,870
It takes us probably I mean, the best part of two or three, we are two or three months, less than two or three weeks, two or three months.

653
01:06:52,870 --> 01:06:57,910
And it's really like it's long hours. And when if you do do an internship with us,

654
01:06:57,910 --> 01:07:04,810
basically you get assigned to a sale and you become like a really key point of support for all of the team working on that sale.

655
01:07:04,810 --> 01:07:10,160
So rather than making the coffee or kind of, as I said, like doing all this kind of valuations and pricing research,

656
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:14,620
but then when it comes down to capital, it also means that you're rifling through the books, trying to find these exhibitions.

657
01:07:14,620 --> 01:07:21,570
You're kind of doing a bit of investigation, as it were. And once that whole process is done, lots of capital to them.

658
01:07:21,570 --> 01:07:25,690
That has now been like a mini hiatus, like a tiny one week breath.

659
01:07:25,690 --> 01:07:33,250
And then we really start building towards the auction, which means we start doing all of this research into who potentially might buy and who

660
01:07:33,250 --> 01:07:38,440
actually has the capability of buying some of our top lots as well as the wholesalers.

661
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,540
So that's fair to say. You know, the different facets of our business,

662
01:07:41,540 --> 01:07:46,270
you can come down the specialist room like I have and end up doing the kind of real hands on art stuff.

663
01:07:46,270 --> 01:07:49,360
Or there are some roles within the department like client development,

664
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:58,570
where you become really fluent in who it is that's looking for certain paintings and you become that point of advice for the department.

665
01:07:58,570 --> 01:08:04,330
And then so once we've done this bit of market research about who might have who might possibly buy a painting,

666
01:08:04,330 --> 01:08:07,930
we then go to the next stage, which is really the immediate build up to the sale.

667
01:08:07,930 --> 01:08:12,700
Everyone from all the international offices descends upon London or New York, as it may be.

668
01:08:12,700 --> 01:08:16,570
And we sit down and really discuss like, are people really going to come through on the night?

669
01:08:16,570 --> 01:08:22,510
Are they actually going to be spending that kind of money? You know, it's sort of it's it's a really it's almost like a circus atmosphere.

670
01:08:22,510 --> 01:08:27,550
It's got a lot of energy. It's actually it's a lot of fun like these kind of like mini productions.

671
01:08:27,550 --> 01:08:32,570
It's like we don't actually do that in-house. We have a fantastic team with peak films to come and work with us.

672
01:08:32,570 --> 01:08:33,880
But all of the concepts are ours.

673
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:41,260
And like a lot of the time, I mean, you do the voiceovers for them as well if you're a specialist and you come up with the concept for it.

674
01:08:41,260 --> 01:08:46,430
This one was, you know, supercold out. Jeff Koons and Debbie Harry, they do the voiceovers for us.

675
01:08:46,430 --> 01:08:50,680
So that was really fun. And we did a big launch party for it. Yeah.

676
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:59,350
So I guess with our department, what's quite nice there's one company does get a lot of really great budget opportunities to do really fun

677
01:08:59,350 --> 01:09:03,820
things with a great party and actually maybe in New York and there's a lot of really cool stuff that happens.

678
01:09:03,820 --> 01:09:11,530
But equally, if there's one temporary is not your thing. The beauty of working in the auction house is that, you know, if you're into antique clocks.

679
01:09:11,530 --> 01:09:15,920
To find watches, fine jewellery, you know, ancient manuscripts,

680
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:26,280
there are these out there are all these very sort of bespoke specialist departments with people who are completely absorbed and consumed by the work.

681
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:32,480
So they look out. So for any kind of avenue of interest, there's really kind of a place because it's not.

682
01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:36,890
And we really take interns across pretty much all those departments.

683
01:09:36,890 --> 01:09:44,000
Some of the very, very small ones might not. But in general, we have 99 percent of them would take internships.

684
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:49,550
So it really does cover a very broad range of interests.

685
01:09:49,550 --> 01:10:01,820
So I don't know, maybe maybe everyone, if anyone has any questions or maybe I just I don't if I see these on the scientific panel and at some point.

686
01:10:01,820 --> 01:10:12,890
Does anyone have any questions that we can answer for you? Yes. And ask as an intern without any training.

687
01:10:12,890 --> 01:10:17,120
I mean, it is a it is a structured programme and.

688
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,760
You're with one department for six months.

689
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:26,660
It's not structured in the sense of following any kind of modules or having any particular steps along along that way.

690
01:10:26,660 --> 01:10:30,380
You are a master in the auction process from from day one,

691
01:10:30,380 --> 01:10:34,670
which I personally think is actually a better way of learning the auction business

692
01:10:34,670 --> 01:10:39,660
than if you were doing some kind of modular course or some kind of exam at the end.

693
01:10:39,660 --> 01:10:49,610
It is very much business as usual, and I cannot stress enough or confidence that you really are thrown in the deep end in a positive sense.

694
01:10:49,610 --> 01:10:55,550
You know, you're not there doing photocopies. You're doing research or talking to the business managers, you know, is that you?

695
01:10:55,550 --> 01:11:00,740
Yes. And you've got the full gamut of the auction. It's definitely a baptism by fire.

696
01:11:00,740 --> 01:11:04,700
Yeah. Yeah. And our expectations of what you do if you come in.

697
01:11:04,700 --> 01:11:12,350
I mean, obviously, internships are really coveted and very oversubscribed for a lot of depends on a single department.

698
01:11:12,350 --> 01:11:20,660
So it's for a and it's very oversubscribed. And so when people come, we do really want them to fully engage what they're doing.

699
01:11:20,660 --> 01:11:24,440
I think what's really important, though, is that so of saying we're seeing this,

700
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:29,360
the idea was that ultimately, you know, what seems to be quite siloed?

701
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:36,260
You know, you go down a curating path or a commercial path or an academic path that very rarely do people intermix.

702
01:11:36,260 --> 01:11:43,370
And I think before you commit to one particular avenue, it's very sensible to kind of have an experience and see whether the auction houses for you,

703
01:11:43,370 --> 01:11:48,440
see whether galleries for you curating, you know, kind of come with an informed decision.

704
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:56,090
So I think that that's quite important. Certainly, I would say by having been an intern, I learnt more on the job and nothing more subsequently.

705
01:11:56,090 --> 01:12:01,700
Now, every day and every week, every auction season that I did, honestly.

706
01:12:01,700 --> 01:12:07,460
I mean, the foundations and the sort of the way of thinking, if you like, was what I'd learnt from being at university.

707
01:12:07,460 --> 01:12:13,000
Like that sassily gave me a very, very important framework for gay and then approaching other subjects.

708
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:28,650
But I think what you learn on the job in many ways can be just as great, if you like.

709
01:12:28,650 --> 01:12:33,940
Yeah, I think I was really quite confused about what's to do, to be honest.

710
01:12:33,940 --> 01:12:39,670
And I think this is not a problem for any of you see well studied art history.

711
01:12:39,670 --> 01:12:44,140
I think for me, trying to become a specialist, having never studied art history, would have been a problem.

712
01:12:44,140 --> 01:12:52,210
I think, you know, some people grow up with their whole lives and that maybe their parents work not and then they're very familiar with it.

713
01:12:52,210 --> 01:13:01,270
But my family wasn't that way. And when I went and did my masters in our history, that was really my first degree in the was.

714
01:13:01,270 --> 01:13:05,410
So I think that was quite important prerequisite.

715
01:13:05,410 --> 01:13:14,330
Having said that, you know, I think that that's I mean, having studied art as an undergrad is, you know, more than enough.

716
01:13:14,330 --> 01:13:19,000
And in fact, there are often places for people who haven't studied art at all.

717
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,640
I think, you know, it depends on your character as well.

718
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:28,750
Like, I always needed to have like a proper sounds grounding in something before I felt that I was then entitled to be able to speak about it,

719
01:13:28,750 --> 01:13:37,540
if you like. So that was probably the reason I ended up doing so many degrees with people from a wide range of different subject Republican

720
01:13:37,540 --> 01:13:45,330
business graduates who are pursuing business manager careers or internships and indeed is tough and said some people,

721
01:13:45,330 --> 01:13:50,170
you know, have money from going to university that I've done some work. But I mean, it's it's a very broad range.

722
01:13:50,170 --> 01:13:57,310
But as I said, you know, the audience we have today, obviously you guys are studying history, but that's that's obviously a great start.

723
01:13:57,310 --> 01:14:03,190
Actually, we just hired a guy who was taken over my old role and who graduated from here.

724
01:14:03,190 --> 01:14:10,240
In fact, she went on and did a masters at the courthouse, but only after she'd done three years in finance first.

725
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:14,050
And so, honestly, it's kind of you know, it's a very mixed bag.

726
01:14:14,050 --> 01:14:21,620
Another girl that we we've taken on for our fixed term contract. She was a lawyer and has done smart history as well as I'd say that, you know,

727
01:14:21,620 --> 01:14:27,310
really do say quite broadly about what it is you think you might like to do, because, you know, it's not.

728
01:14:27,310 --> 01:14:30,910
It's not. You go to another career outside of art and then you can have met your way back or something.

729
01:14:30,910 --> 01:14:47,210
That's not the case for a prestigious higher. Bilingual, the TV is is a rolling programme.

730
01:14:47,210 --> 01:14:54,680
So there are no kind of intake periods. We'll take about 550 people in the course of a year in London for two weeks.

731
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,080
And that's in any given department.

732
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:04,100
And obviously, that's that's a good one for undergraduates because obviously it can be accommodated within your academic year.

733
01:15:04,100 --> 01:15:09,530
There are no real pretty well, because it's you know, if you've got an interest in art, then obviously that's that's great.

734
01:15:09,530 --> 01:15:16,160
But there's there's no kind of, you know, criteria that we take off against what work experience is a very open programme.

735
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:19,470
Whereas for internships we do obviously look for history.

736
01:15:19,470 --> 01:15:24,410
Barbara, for example, for an auction department or business graduate for for the for the finance team.

737
01:15:24,410 --> 01:15:31,080
So it's a very open programme. I mean, for us, we prefer to have people who are there for three months or four months rather than two weeks.

738
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:36,980
But by the very nature of what we do, a lot of the material that's going around that you get access to and look at is confidential.

739
01:15:36,980 --> 01:15:38,630
If you're only there for two weeks,

740
01:15:38,630 --> 01:15:44,690
there's every chance that after two weeks you're going to say it's on there and go off to Sotheby's to be with everything.

741
01:15:44,690 --> 01:15:48,450
You've just seen our place. So that's a little bit tricky.

742
01:15:48,450 --> 01:15:56,780
But of course, that means across the board and the people we take on, we trust that have you know, we trust them and that's how it goes.

743
01:15:56,780 --> 01:16:03,500
I think what's really special, actually, we have an amazing group of interns now, like there's probably five or six of them.

744
01:16:03,500 --> 01:16:07,970
Some of them have been now taken on to graduate trainee programmes and some of them have had their

745
01:16:07,970 --> 01:16:12,890
internships extended or they've turned into paid internships and there's really college atmosphere.

746
01:16:12,890 --> 01:16:19,460
So I don't know. The thing that I find so nice about being a Christi's is that it reminds me very much of having that kind of group.

747
01:16:19,460 --> 01:16:23,720
I don't know. You always have it in your college or in your department or whatever it is.

748
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:27,350
It's that sense of of everyone, like helping helping each other out.

749
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:32,420
And I know it sounds a bit extreme, but when we go to print with these catalogues, it is a late night process.

750
01:16:32,420 --> 01:16:37,490
We're all there like working until midnight and we work over the weekend is not this kind of thing.

751
01:16:37,490 --> 01:16:41,790
And a lady who just started as my boss's assistant said it was a bit like, you know,

752
01:16:41,790 --> 01:16:46,350
we were down on the beaches during the war, was like trying to get across in the rainbow.

753
01:16:46,350 --> 01:16:52,730
And suppose it seems like a bit of an extreme analogy, but we are quite we're all quite close and the interns are very much part of that.

754
01:16:52,730 --> 01:16:56,900
So, yeah. And you mentioned about PFC Pierce.

755
01:16:56,900 --> 01:17:01,460
I mean, we might look for that if something's particularly neat.

756
01:17:01,460 --> 01:17:08,510
For example, maybe working in our restitution department where early background and research is is is required,

757
01:17:08,510 --> 01:17:13,190
but certainly across the business in general. I mean, obviously, it's fantastic if you've got one,

758
01:17:13,190 --> 01:17:19,700
but it's certainly not something that we would ever particularly, you know, put down as a must have.

759
01:17:19,700 --> 01:17:23,240
And just to clarify, something can be said to say, you know,

760
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:30,210
let's be clear or the would say in general, all out in terms all paid, we do pay our interns.

761
01:17:30,210 --> 01:17:34,140
Let's just say you're I know a lot of intensive programmes on pace,

762
01:17:34,140 --> 01:17:42,270
but we do have a small group of what we call research in, though, isn't unpaid interns, some of which captain referred to.

763
01:17:42,270 --> 01:17:45,830
I'm in the post department. So, yeah, we try.

764
01:17:45,830 --> 01:17:50,570
I mean, ultimately, like, we try and keep people on so that they don't. Yeah.

765
01:17:50,570 --> 01:17:59,330
Then for the top bracket. I would say about APHC thing is that you don't need a picture to cover life as a specialist.

766
01:17:59,330 --> 01:18:05,210
You don't need that if it's your own ambition and it's your desire to do that and to get further into your subject.

767
01:18:05,210 --> 01:18:10,430
That's an amazing thing. You know, that's wonderful. But it's not it's certainly not needed in the commercial environment.

768
01:18:10,430 --> 01:18:19,550
But I do have we have been doing what I was doing, which my girlfriend has just come from, from Oxford, has just taken on that role or whatever.

769
01:18:19,550 --> 01:18:24,940
She's working with another girl that we've kind of got as a part time basis who is studying her now.

770
01:18:24,940 --> 01:18:32,240
And so she's she does six weeks on deadline with us and then she goes back to the hotel and does her day in between.

771
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:36,860
But obviously, your supervisor would not be thrilled about that.

772
01:18:36,860 --> 01:18:43,060
Well, I guess one last thing that's worth pointing out is obviously you've talked about the what we call programme intakes.

773
01:18:43,060 --> 01:18:44,870
I work experience and internships.

774
01:18:44,870 --> 01:18:51,920
But of course, you know, we take on a whole host of undergraduates every year into full time permanent roles as well.

775
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:57,950
So it's worth mentioning that obviously, you know, undergraduates can constrain to a permanent role within the business,

776
01:18:57,950 --> 01:19:05,270
usually as administrator within one of the awesome departments, which sounds very generic and boring, but actually they get exposed to an awful lot.

777
01:19:05,270 --> 01:19:07,400
So it's actually quite, quite good.

778
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:13,610
Well, they're the first people I was supposed to be on the way up, one of our super administrators and business managers.

779
01:19:13,610 --> 01:19:16,460
She's the first person if anyone's going to be even set up a gallery,

780
01:19:16,460 --> 01:19:23,000
she's the first person they take with them because she's on, you know, about all of the transport, logistics, tax implications.

781
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:28,370
I mean, she's she is the person that you need to you have any number of people who think they know a lot about it,

782
01:19:28,370 --> 01:19:36,590
but not many people who are actually properly down on their skills. So also definitely not to be undervalued.

783
01:19:36,590 --> 01:19:44,570
So what do to think of that, roughly how many there are four in Tennessee.

784
01:19:44,570 --> 01:19:52,930
And I was also wondering, I'm guessing that the application process is quite rigorous because it of the nature.

785
01:19:52,930 --> 01:19:58,160
If anything makes people stand out. Or what not to do is generally so.

786
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:02,980
So we'll take unpaid interns. We take on twice a year.

787
01:20:02,980 --> 01:20:06,770
We'll take on about January and March in July.

788
01:20:06,770 --> 01:20:13,320
For six months. And they tend to take on roughly 40 in those two intakes.

789
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:17,410
40. Later in a year. And for those 80 rows,

790
01:20:17,410 --> 01:20:25,630
we would probably have somewhere in the region about four thousand one hundred applications in terms of the application process.

791
01:20:25,630 --> 01:20:33,070
I personally don't think it is particularly rigorous. I mean, it really is just your profile and obviously an experience we have.

792
01:20:33,070 --> 01:20:37,290
And then we ask you to write a personal statement about what particular interest to

793
01:20:37,290 --> 01:20:41,680
you and obviously what perhaps in department you particularly like to be aligned to.

794
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:49,930
So you've got a choice of putting down three or four. Obviously with a with a first preference in terms of what makes individual stand out.

795
01:20:49,930 --> 01:20:54,280
I mean, it's hard, obviously, when you're looking at things within such volumes.

796
01:20:54,280 --> 01:21:01,450
I mean, the classic things are obviously, you know, people who are taking time out in the summer to go and get, you know,

797
01:21:01,450 --> 01:21:09,030
even if it's just unpaid work experience in a gallery and any anything that demonstrates that they're not just pursuing an academic qualification,

798
01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:15,670
that they're clearly demonstrating that this is a this is a passion and, you know, they want to get somewhere in that given industry.

799
01:21:15,670 --> 01:21:20,720
So really going, you know, going outside your comfort zone and really getting any kind of experience you can.

800
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:22,810
And I'm representing that on your CV.

801
01:21:22,810 --> 01:21:31,900
I think a lot of people actually will put on one kind of sentence about what I had worked Espenson last summer in a gallery.

802
01:21:31,900 --> 01:21:36,730
Obviously, if we're looking for 100 cities in a given day and that's all you see,

803
01:21:36,730 --> 01:21:40,330
I mean, you know, somebody else has put you know, I assisted with the cataloguing.

804
01:21:40,330 --> 01:21:44,230
I have researched this. I you know, I helped with a sale.

805
01:21:44,230 --> 01:21:45,340
I did sign it.

806
01:21:45,340 --> 01:21:52,810
Then obviously, you're going to gravitate towards the one, as I indicated, the depth of their experience rather than just I've worked in a gallery.

807
01:21:52,810 --> 01:21:57,100
So it's really kind of the way you present your experience as much as anything.

808
01:21:57,100 --> 01:22:00,660
I never at least is is just great institution that as well.

809
01:22:00,660 --> 01:22:06,850
Like I was looking after the first one in Tempe, internships and seeing the applications and things to that department.

810
01:22:06,850 --> 01:22:13,990
And also occasionally there are jobs that are just posted up online and you're invited to apply for them without being an intern.

811
01:22:13,990 --> 01:22:20,620
That's absolutely fine. And we just did that. And we had 135 applicants for one position in the end that we went through.

812
01:22:20,620 --> 01:22:25,440
And I bet a lot a lot of people and read every single application.

813
01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:30,670
And for me, like the things that matter to me, I mean, certainly Dadri work is wonderful.

814
01:22:30,670 --> 01:22:33,970
But, you know, sometimes there is also the practicality of it.

815
01:22:33,970 --> 01:22:37,690
Some people have to go. You have to go and work in a in a shop because you need to earn a salary.

816
01:22:37,690 --> 01:22:41,350
And then, you know, these things are realities and totally sensitive to that, too.

817
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:48,510
And, you know, also wants to young that you also want to find out whether maybe you want to go and do be a lawyer or be a you know,

818
01:22:48,510 --> 01:22:51,970
you know, an accountant or whatever it is that you want to try a few of those things out.

819
01:22:51,970 --> 01:22:56,680
The fact you've got those on your CV, just because you're applying to Christi's, it's an art to leave those things off,

820
01:22:56,680 --> 01:23:02,910
because ultimately, just the ability to apply yourself in a professional setting for me is really, really important.

821
01:23:02,910 --> 01:23:07,240
And now, obviously, after that, you know, doing well, doing well at university,

822
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:12,580
like getting good grades did not mean writing interesting dissertation, things like that.

823
01:23:12,580 --> 01:23:17,940
Like because obviously I have an interest in art. Like, I'm interested to know what you were studying and why you're passionate about it.

824
01:23:17,940 --> 01:23:22,030
So there's sort of things that also jump off a senior behind us.

825
01:23:22,030 --> 01:23:27,850
That's very true, because obviously we could be needing to hire somebody to work within the business is that if you have,

826
01:23:27,850 --> 01:23:31,510
for argument's sake, had some kind of exposure to accountancy or whatever.

827
01:23:31,510 --> 01:23:36,680
Again, that's going to stand out and say, yes, I include all professional experiences.

828
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:41,500
There's value, doesn't have to just be government. We can have a TV interview.

829
01:23:41,500 --> 01:23:54,390
That can be more questions. Thank you very much, Amanda. And during that last, we shall see these new things.

830
01:23:54,390 --> 01:23:58,090
It does not support here. They do feed up to the courier service.

831
01:23:58,090 --> 01:24:05,140
You give me an appointment to see if we can get your CV looking like this was just described.

832
01:24:05,140 --> 01:24:12,260
I don't suppose it's here on your doorstep. And this is from the Oxford Visual Arts Department agent.

833
01:24:12,260 --> 01:24:18,610
Yeah. You tell him a bit more about what that is your path and thinks that they could do was physically hitting Kenya.

834
01:24:18,610 --> 01:24:29,110
And it's really interesting to follow because it's kind of the extremes. I'm talking from a non-profit organisation, very artists led and voluntary.

835
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:37,540
But there's a lot of similarities in the past to get to that point and touch upon the and that kind of thing.

836
01:24:37,540 --> 01:24:41,770
But just to give you a bit of background as to where I've come from.

837
01:24:41,770 --> 01:24:49,300
So I studied fine arts at Oxford University and I graduate in two thousand eight.

838
01:24:49,300 --> 01:24:57,670
And while I was at uni, a kind of just took as many opportunities as possible to get involved with everything that's going on.

839
01:24:57,670 --> 01:25:05,710
And I can't emphasise that enough is just to get so much variance outside of university, outside the Crows.

840
01:25:05,710 --> 01:25:13,030
So I'd go and find out what events were happening in Australia and kind of ask if I could work as artist assistant.

841
01:25:13,030 --> 01:25:17,930
And kind of shadow the project manager.

842
01:25:17,930 --> 01:25:25,180
And there's loads going on, so cheque everything out. But it does tend to be a lot more voluntary.

843
01:25:25,180 --> 01:25:33,910
But just in terms of building up your CV, you're saying it's just it's really important to the final year of my course.

844
01:25:33,910 --> 01:25:39,010
I took an informal internship with AVADO, which is where I am now.

845
01:25:39,010 --> 01:25:45,640
And it was quite intense, arresting two full days a week for about three months.

846
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:52,090
And it was just absolute amazing because it opens your eyes up to the real world, really.

847
01:25:52,090 --> 01:26:00,460
And, you know, you can hear about what's happening and hear about what these organisations do, but just to see it firsthand.

848
01:26:00,460 --> 01:26:09,850
And the other big thing I'd say is it's just meeting people so important to kind of build up your contacts and create a network around you.

849
01:26:09,850 --> 01:26:15,190
And then also maintain those contacts. So I don't want to state the obvious, but just, you know,

850
01:26:15,190 --> 01:26:23,410
keep everyone's business card and stay in touch and just ask to be put on their mailing lists,

851
01:26:23,410 --> 01:26:26,740
sign up to later mailing list, say, you know, what's going on.

852
01:26:26,740 --> 01:26:35,260
I've been twice and there's someone, a website who might be helpful, which I can read at the end.

853
01:26:35,260 --> 01:26:42,890
So that's how I kind of got to this point and started as a kind of project manager.

854
01:26:42,890 --> 01:26:52,810
And now the arts coordinator, which is a massive growing centre, it's a bit of I.

855
01:26:52,810 --> 01:27:01,930
When we were hit really badly by the funding cuts in the past two years, we lost the director's post.

856
01:27:01,930 --> 01:27:08,140
So it's now predominantly managed by a board of voluntary directors,

857
01:27:08,140 --> 01:27:16,210
many of whom are artists and arts professionals and also a business sentiment since I was the treasurer.

858
01:27:16,210 --> 01:27:25,000
And yeah, so it's it's quite, quite a lot of every element in terms of my role.

859
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:31,570
But I was just gonna sort of run through a general statement of the organisation.

860
01:27:31,570 --> 01:27:40,130
So about as a sort of umbrella organisation, I would work in for some land projects, but also in partnership with others.

861
01:27:40,130 --> 01:27:46,480
So we've done a lot with the university and particularly Ruskin's students will not Oxford.

862
01:27:46,480 --> 01:27:51,610
More recently, National Trust. So we kind of work on a broad range.

863
01:27:51,610 --> 01:27:58,090
We've been Oxford and beyond. And we were established in 2005.

864
01:27:58,090 --> 01:28:02,350
Some of you might have known that we were previously based in a gathering in

865
01:28:02,350 --> 01:28:09,730
Gloucester Green when we left there in 2010 to move to a new warehouse space.

866
01:28:09,730 --> 01:28:12,130
And it was just saying, yeah,

867
01:28:12,130 --> 01:28:23,120
it's just a complete contrast because we've gone from this wiki purpose-built space is lighting to a really rough and ready warehouse.

868
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:29,590
And it's just absolutely incredible. Actually, what we're settling in is that when you moved in property in June,

869
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:39,070
but we've been able to just open up to many more opportunities in terms of what we're putting on for a programme and events.

870
01:28:39,070 --> 01:28:48,550
We're doing lots of workshops and kind of getting artists in to take part in professional development activities as well.

871
01:28:48,550 --> 01:28:52,240
So just to touch on that, I was going to refer up. Ms.

872
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:53,980
Excuse me for reading off the list.

873
01:28:53,980 --> 01:29:03,250
But our main objective is to facilitate and promote access to high quality visual arts for all the residents and visitors to Oxford about poets,

874
01:29:03,250 --> 01:29:07,570
artists in the development of that practise and that successful promotion to audience.

875
01:29:07,570 --> 01:29:13,780
At the heart of our work. So a huge thing for us is commissioning innovative new work.

876
01:29:13,780 --> 01:29:23,500
A lot of which wouldn't be artists wouldn't have the opportunity to make elsewhere in terms of physically or cost.

877
01:29:23,500 --> 01:29:34,590
And we really encourage creative risk taking. Working with a really broad discipline, kind of working across different areas.

878
01:29:34,590 --> 01:29:44,540
So Arts and Science Dance, Novar aims is just for artists to succeed, for professional development opportunities.

879
01:29:44,540 --> 01:29:54,820
So, as I said, lots of talks, workshops, and we've got a website with references and resources on exhibiting work in galleries

880
01:29:54,820 --> 01:30:00,910
and other offsite locations supported by events and related education programmes.

881
01:30:00,910 --> 01:30:02,200
So going back to that site,

882
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:09,610
we worked with the foundation chieftains from the local colleges got them into the warehouse to make some site specific work,

883
01:30:09,610 --> 01:30:13,660
and they had a kind of many private view at the end of that really intense

884
01:30:13,660 --> 01:30:21,670
long in Coday creating and supporting artists network in the area and beyond.

885
01:30:21,670 --> 01:30:25,490
And I think that's a really important thing as well as the.

886
01:30:25,490 --> 01:30:37,480
It is quite easy to become very insular within Oxford and creating these links with London and seeing the bigger picture is really important.

887
01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:43,360
And we we try and bring links into Oxford as well.

888
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:52,240
So we invite professional speakers to come and to give workshops and not just professional development in terms of artists,

889
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:54,470
but also ask professionals.

890
01:30:54,470 --> 01:31:03,790
And we I've got a emerging curators programme, which I'd really like to if I've got time very quickly, like let's introduce,

891
01:31:03,790 --> 01:31:10,540
which I hope you'd be interested in and encouraging a vibrant arts community in Oxfordshire, say,

892
01:31:10,540 --> 01:31:18,220
stimulating kind of cross-fertilisation of ideas, skills sharing, knowledge, exchange and the warehouse.

893
01:31:18,220 --> 01:31:29,100
You know, it's our plan to have a big hub where we have resources and space, where people can just come together and kind of share and.

894
01:31:29,100 --> 01:31:34,300
Yeah, sort of experience it and learn. So, yeah,

895
01:31:34,300 --> 01:31:39,580
I talked about briefly about the funding cuts and how that's quite difficult

896
01:31:39,580 --> 01:31:46,840
given the current climate really being funded by Oxfordshire County Council.

897
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:55,260
That's our core funding for staff costs. The rest is or project funding and income from events.

898
01:31:55,260 --> 01:31:59,870
So it's it's it's tough.

899
01:31:59,870 --> 01:32:11,320
I do not want to put you off, but it's it's very tough at the moment as a lot of competition for grants and sponsorship and of the streams of income.

900
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:21,440
So it's. Which is why we're seeing a lot more kind of voluntary like groups forming some very sort of grass roots in itself.

901
01:32:21,440 --> 01:32:31,050
And I feel at the moment and kind of brings me in to the nation about voluntary placements.

902
01:32:31,050 --> 01:32:36,410
So I talked about myself doing an internship. We still running into a programme.

903
01:32:36,410 --> 01:32:43,480
It don't link to Brooks, but we're hoping to expand so before we can talk a bit more.

904
01:32:43,480 --> 01:32:49,870
But we want to do more informal kind of work experience or voluntary placements.

905
01:32:49,870 --> 01:32:53,650
There's loads of areas that you get involved in.

906
01:32:53,650 --> 01:33:05,320
Again, as the finances, the coming to hang show, helping to organise an event, all the professional development opportunities.

907
01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:18,460
Updating the website and maintaining that resource. So there's kind of a massive range of areas to get involved if anyone was interested.

908
01:33:18,460 --> 01:33:28,840
And I wanted to say too much about Programme Bullis things on our website, which people could look at to see what we're talking about to this year.

909
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:34,790
And. Just Panopto, so what does he kind of tips?

910
01:33:34,790 --> 01:33:40,790
I think I've kind of gone a bit myself again just to network attend or the private is just

911
01:33:40,790 --> 01:33:48,720
make sure you signed up to everything and make your connexions within Oxford and beyond.

912
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:54,720
Does it yet again? First, the Web sites on Mars, which is a really good Arts Council website,

913
01:33:54,720 --> 01:34:04,290
which you're probably aware of jobs and not just send out information about jobs, internships, voluntary placements.

914
01:34:04,290 --> 01:34:10,020
And it just also gives you a big overview of what's going on, what organisations are kind of out there.

915
01:34:10,020 --> 01:34:20,040
And just, again, take part in as many activities outside of being as you can and really strengthen that CV.

916
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:26,680
So much experience as possible. I think it's the key that I think that's it for that moment.

917
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:32,400
But if I can just say up a pile of artist briefs for our May project,

918
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:39,000
which is a collaboration for parties art weeks, and we're opening up the warehouse for two weeks,

919
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:50,670
and we're hoping that emerging curators who kind of submit a proposal idea for an exhibition of contemporary art within the warehouse,

920
01:34:50,670 --> 01:34:59,490
and we're hoping before kind of mini exhibitions, we've been one. We've got various spaces that will be open, including outdoors.

921
01:34:59,490 --> 01:35:04,600
There's a massive range of work that we'd like to accept as well.

922
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:13,780
Keatings performance and sound. So if I keep that pile with me and come and see me if you're interested, or that would be great.

923
01:35:13,780 --> 01:35:25,600
All right. Right. Could you put these just right up here from getting to do a set project where she volunteers at your part time alongside?

924
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:33,800
Yeah. Kind of sums up the. So the states at the moment is a part time work for bodysuits as a sustainable income.

925
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:44,010
They work elsewhere. So a portfolio which with the exact question for about things, go locally.

926
01:35:44,010 --> 01:35:50,240
Indeed. The immersion curators. Yes.

927
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:56,770
Yes. You know, I was going to say that if I like to go and do like kind of a stint doing like

928
01:35:56,770 --> 01:36:02,020
a volunteer curator kind of security space like that would be fantastic.

929
01:36:02,020 --> 01:36:07,770
Like any job that you got to do later on, taking the opportunity and putting something together like that.

930
01:36:07,770 --> 01:36:11,640
It's like, OK, it's not it's not paid work. It may not be.

931
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:14,940
You know what you may want to be be wanting to be a curator or whatever.

932
01:36:14,940 --> 01:36:19,800
But then for a commercial line as well, like showing doing it organisation or something like that,

933
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:24,720
thinking about how you put together an exhibition is really essential skills, whatever you might want to do.

934
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:29,340
So whether you want to become a galleries, knowing how to put words together so that they,

935
01:36:29,340 --> 01:36:34,590
you know, often an artist will dictate if you're in a gallery space how that works together.

936
01:36:34,590 --> 01:36:38,690
But galleries have really fundamental parts in helping to assist with that.

937
01:36:38,690 --> 01:36:44,100
And then the auction exhibition. My boss, actually, France's future. This was a curator before.

938
01:36:44,100 --> 01:36:50,910
And so for him, curating the auction exhibition is so vital and will end up doing that in two weeks time over Friday night's disaster.

939
01:36:50,910 --> 01:36:54,900
And Saturday morning will come in and continue tweaking it and things like that.

940
01:36:54,900 --> 01:36:59,610
Expenses like that on your CV, things like endorsing it.

941
01:36:59,610 --> 01:37:06,300
I mean, my personal background in this chemical sector and from our point of view, people who come in with not just ideas and academic passion,

942
01:37:06,300 --> 01:37:14,330
but with real practical experience and haven't done stuff up against at short notice, an independent, it looks.

943
01:37:14,330 --> 01:37:26,570
And you, sir? Join us for any last questions. We have a limited resource for any life we would like to ask.

944
01:37:26,570 --> 01:37:46,820
The. Conservation. Conservation work at Christie's got to stop, it especially ends up doing just reporting on the works.

945
01:37:46,820 --> 01:37:50,210
It's not a specific conservation department as such.

946
01:37:50,210 --> 01:37:56,840
To be a conservator, you actually need to go through a really long and very detailed process of training.

947
01:37:56,840 --> 01:37:59,060
And in fact, if you do a conservation degree,

948
01:37:59,060 --> 01:38:04,910
you're not really ever going to work on a acted like on a piece of art, as it were, until probably your third year.

949
01:38:04,910 --> 01:38:11,290
You'll be doing lots of practise runs that you should really be looking out like at all Boston cleaning it for dirt or something like that.

950
01:38:11,290 --> 01:38:17,560
So we have external supply conservationists who come in and look at really high value works for each of us.

951
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:23,190
That's a specialist is trained to do a condition reporting to sort of troubleshoot different words,

952
01:38:23,190 --> 01:38:27,500
to sort of be able to see on TV, like whether there's been restoration done, things like that.

953
01:38:27,500 --> 01:38:35,840
Good in terms of active conserve conservation on the works. We would never even dare get an old ultimately where we're custodians.

954
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:39,110
Right. Like, these works passed through our hands and they do not belong to us.

955
01:38:39,110 --> 01:38:45,410
So actually, without a client's consent, that something is going to go off to a real expert to get cleaned.

956
01:38:45,410 --> 01:38:52,680
We're not going to be doing anything. And you just said if you can research those kind of organisations, those external conservative,

957
01:38:52,680 --> 01:39:02,750
so that big names that also that we've got a lot of Birken services that we use are actually very small, independent.

958
01:39:02,750 --> 01:39:10,100
You know who you've trained. And I know if what they put themselves in the industry and I use on the basis of their reputation.

959
01:39:10,100 --> 01:39:17,300
So it's not that there's a big company that you could approach that they're going to freeze out this year.

960
01:39:17,300 --> 01:39:23,850
And each person has its own their own speciality. So we work gives the same person for a canvas and we will do for work on paper.

961
01:39:23,850 --> 01:39:27,670
You know, we will give same person for sculptures. We will do all on canvas.

962
01:39:27,670 --> 01:39:33,980
You know, it's each person has their own distinct things. Same photograph photographs you can do.

963
01:39:33,980 --> 01:39:37,420
Just extend that. I mean, Holly, for the PNH, you have a team in hell.

964
01:39:37,420 --> 01:39:45,740
So do you use an extra freelancers? Yeah, we do. We have a we have an in-house conservation team, which I absolutely love going into.

965
01:39:45,740 --> 01:39:54,950
I loved making artworks before I came to university. And going into a conservation department is like going into an art studio that's clean.

966
01:39:54,950 --> 01:40:02,090
I you it to really you know, we have already an in-house conservation team that we range from.

967
01:40:02,090 --> 01:40:07,070
Textile conservation is an enormous department of the V.A. because we've obviously got one of

968
01:40:07,070 --> 01:40:15,230
the biggest collections of textiles within within the U.K. and within each specific department.

969
01:40:15,230 --> 01:40:22,250
They range from textiles to metal work to sculpture to pay per two books to painting.

970
01:40:22,250 --> 01:40:28,360
And the list goes on and on. But within those separate departments, they've also got mounting departments.

971
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:34,910
So I don't know. I keep on going on about what it will cost you because that's just been obsessed with the last year.

972
01:40:34,910 --> 01:40:39,080
But each week, I don't know if anyone's managed to go to see a Hollywood costume,

973
01:40:39,080 --> 01:40:44,120
but each one of the about one hundred and twenty costumes that we've got in there has been individually

974
01:40:44,120 --> 01:40:51,140
mounted specifically and tailored towards the conservation needs of that individual costumes.

975
01:40:51,140 --> 01:40:55,910
There is an absolutely massive amount of work that goes into each one.

976
01:40:55,910 --> 01:41:06,080
So I spoke to someone in textile conservation. Each each costume takes about to mount about four days.

977
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:14,360
So it's a very, very long process. So you coming back to what you are saying about the specific sort of specialist training?

978
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:22,430
It is a quite a long process of training. You go to do the questions you have with her.

979
01:41:22,430 --> 01:41:30,150
Give me that. You said you had the concept.

980
01:41:30,150 --> 01:41:34,140
It's an independent it's an independent film team. It's called Peak Films.

981
01:41:34,140 --> 01:41:38,930
That really fantastic. They did was the Channel four.

982
01:41:38,930 --> 01:41:42,290
And they did work for the teams, the two girls.

983
01:41:42,290 --> 01:41:46,190
And they take actually they take interns as researchers and kind enough planning.

984
01:41:46,190 --> 01:41:49,200
So they really are so fantastic.

985
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:55,190
And it's not very easy if you don't work in a specific field of art to kind of necessarily get a concept of a painting.

986
01:41:55,190 --> 01:41:58,280
And these guys just do seamlessly. And that translates to.

987
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:04,250
So, yeah, that's kind of if that kind of idea is interesting to you, that I would suggest you let them off the show.

988
01:42:04,250 --> 01:42:07,120
And that's quite a good strategy, actually, when you're looking at.

989
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:11,920
We really love to work in the mind that website and see who are these names that they're using.

990
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,980
I'll take this. There's a whole peripheral industry attached to where you want to be.

991
01:42:15,980 --> 01:42:27,230
There could be. I mean, once we looked at it, it's just it's fun.

992
01:42:27,230 --> 01:42:33,560
There's more to come. Well, the specialist, you see, that's the thing, is that so for my job, I'm sure.

993
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:36,140
I think this is the most your job in the BNA are actually mine.

994
01:42:36,140 --> 01:42:43,580
My job started out as being that research person, the kind of research specialist who would go back to first principles,

995
01:42:43,580 --> 01:42:49,610
knowing about being been educated in our history, to then think about the story and of each painting.

996
01:42:49,610 --> 01:42:54,250
And it's really out of like, for example, the David Hockney, which I had a link to, as you can see on our website.

997
01:42:54,250 --> 01:43:00,860
It's a really, really cool painting from 1963, which was actually on Long-Term Loan, Five Years of the Tate.

998
01:43:00,860 --> 01:43:04,370
And that's now coming to auction. And it's a really fun story.

999
01:43:04,370 --> 01:43:11,960
I mean, Hockney had been obsessed with ancient Egypt and Egyptian and, you know, 1963 was on his Taylor Ditto Cleopatra film.

1000
01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:16,580
And, you know, it was really of the moment, you know, it was liquid jack, black eyeliner, all that kind of stuff.

1001
01:43:16,580 --> 01:43:21,320
And he kind of been obsessed with that since the early 60s. And at the Royal College of Art.

1002
01:43:21,320 --> 01:43:26,510
And so he he was reading the poetry of Constantine Gadhafi.

1003
01:43:26,510 --> 01:43:30,860
He was he had gone to the parking lot museum, was obsessed with the freeze there.

1004
01:43:30,860 --> 01:43:38,600
And he came and he started doing these very expressionist style paintings of Egypt and mummies, things like this.

1005
01:43:38,600 --> 01:43:43,940
And then he got commissioned by David Silvester to go with the Sunday Times to

1006
01:43:43,940 --> 01:43:48,000
Egypt to go and undertake these these drawings of Egypt for the first one.

1007
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:55,850
The first colour suppliments the Sunday Times. And he came back with his whole suite of drawings and then JFK got assassinated.

1008
01:43:55,850 --> 01:44:02,150
And so none of them actually made it into the newspaper or into the magazine, in fact, because, you know, the news is all over the place.

1009
01:44:02,150 --> 01:44:06,830
And so he then increased his one big canvas, which is the one that we're selling.

1010
01:44:06,830 --> 01:44:11,420
And it was with the proceeds of that first major show, Kasman Gathering, that he then made it to California,

1011
01:44:11,420 --> 01:44:15,260
which is the beginning of the story there, the big splash like all of this kind of stuff.

1012
01:44:15,260 --> 01:44:19,160
Well, there's really seminal 60s works and his love affair with with the states.

1013
01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:23,300
So that kind of like having spent time researching the painting, having, you know,

1014
01:44:23,300 --> 01:44:28,160
really got to get to grips with it really and sort of seeing the transition of his early style through this work,

1015
01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:30,440
which was selling then into the California style.

1016
01:44:30,440 --> 01:44:37,490
You start to build up this really wonderful story, which is what I gave and spoke about with the film crew and the film crew.

1017
01:44:37,490 --> 01:44:42,650
They were like, okay, cool. So it's kind of we're talking Egypt. We're talking like moving pictures.

1018
01:44:42,650 --> 01:44:46,670
We're talking about the transition to Hollywood, like L.A. or this kind of stuff.

1019
01:44:46,670 --> 01:44:51,710
And that's how they came up with the concept for the film, which I which is awesome. So you should definitely look it up online.

1020
01:44:51,710 --> 01:44:56,450
But, you know, we have a few lines of the Cavafy poem that's being read out at the beginning, and it's quite atmospheric.

1021
01:44:56,450 --> 01:44:58,940
So really, the ideas start in our departments,

1022
01:44:58,940 --> 01:45:04,530
the film team of people who take our ideas and they translate into the moving images, which are quite effective.

1023
01:45:04,530 --> 01:45:09,110
So, yeah, it's kind of a specialist Orfa. I'm excited.

1024
01:45:09,110 --> 01:45:11,750
There are just to add to that briefly, though,

1025
01:45:11,750 --> 01:45:19,580
obviously a sense of kind of creative team and a central marketing team to kind of support the departments and the delivery of that.

1026
01:45:19,580 --> 01:45:25,640
But as Catherine quite rightly said, obviously the idea is very much stem from the specialists themselves.

1027
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:35,200
It's a. There's no question that would extend our language skills and consider them useful or absolutely necessary in some cases.

1028
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:46,550
Any communication with. With with Chris, these are certainly lots of roles where language is a prerequisite.

1029
01:45:46,550 --> 01:45:50,480
But by the same token, you know, there are lots of roles where where it isn't.

1030
01:45:50,480 --> 01:45:55,040
It really depends on obviously what department you are. For example, the Russian department, you know,

1031
01:45:55,040 --> 01:46:00,510
pretty much you have to have Russian language skills because a lot of buyers aren't very good at speaking English.

1032
01:46:00,510 --> 01:46:04,430
So you really have to communicate when the mother tongue.

1033
01:46:04,430 --> 01:46:08,860
So it really depends on where you end up in the business for us.

1034
01:46:08,860 --> 01:46:11,930
I think that would reflect that will reflect us as well.

1035
01:46:11,930 --> 01:46:19,100
For example, in the theatre department, because, well, we collect objects which come from you, which stem from the UK.

1036
01:46:19,100 --> 01:46:27,320
At the beginning, our collection was started in by Gabrielle and Tovan was specifically designed to collect performance within London and the UK.

1037
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:35,900
Languages aren't necessarily something that we look for, but there are certainly examples of times when they are incredibly helpful,

1038
01:46:35,900 --> 01:46:43,010
especially, for example, if you're doing an exhibition in collaboration with another gallery or another collection within Europe.

1039
01:46:43,010 --> 01:46:50,270
And then sometimes you can do exhibition exchanges with those and then in those cases there can be really helpful.

1040
01:46:50,270 --> 01:46:54,410
So I think language skills are quite specific to reflect.

1041
01:46:54,410 --> 01:47:02,950
It's just effects of what you're going to go and do project wise. So I you think it's interesting, the working location you mentioned,

1042
01:47:02,950 --> 01:47:06,890
it wasn't a requisite in any way for you to know that everybody outside with Italian.

1043
01:47:06,890 --> 01:47:12,080
Yes. By but everyone else. Everybody out there. Well, yes. In the job descriptions.

1044
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:17,550
But it wasn't in the job description. For my role, they specifically wanted someone who was in the school.

1045
01:47:17,550 --> 01:47:23,000
So it wasn't as important. And you might have everything.

1046
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:28,000
That's really interesting here. I've noticed in all departments, it depends when we're trying to build up a certain competence,

1047
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:35,180
like in like when I was applying for jobs and in the contemporary department, we didn't have many German speakers at the time.

1048
01:47:35,180 --> 01:47:37,270
Several wanted somebody so German.

1049
01:47:37,270 --> 01:47:44,950
I don't speak German, but I ended up doing a role which was so essential that I spoke English and was able to write in English.

1050
01:47:44,950 --> 01:47:49,150
And so, you know, fiche role there is a specific prerequisite.

1051
01:47:49,150 --> 01:47:54,560
I would say I mean, often foreign languages do help, but most of my Polish speaks French.

1052
01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:59,310
So if you're a French speaker. Probably not. That doesn't really differentiate you, sir.

1053
01:47:59,310 --> 01:48:07,270
Yeah. Luck of the draw, I think. Oh, yes.

1054
01:48:07,270 --> 01:48:10,010
Yes. Well, as you know is our last question, if I can.

1055
01:48:10,010 --> 01:48:15,500
I know his right to speak is to join us for Spycatcher at 5:00 so quickly that we come to grab them,

1056
01:48:15,500 --> 01:48:32,770
if you'd like to individual some of the DNA you see with your experience and also involved.

1057
01:48:32,770 --> 01:48:39,850
Um, I, I sort of started out, uh, food production company whilst I was here,

1058
01:48:39,850 --> 01:48:45,220
and I was the producer and sort of artistic director, if you like, of that company.

1059
01:48:45,220 --> 01:48:48,850
We did a number of productions over the years that we were active.

1060
01:48:48,850 --> 01:48:54,370
And then when we all got when we all got work and left university, we had to stop the company.

1061
01:48:54,370 --> 01:48:58,920
But I'm really quite, quite basic skills within that.

1062
01:48:58,920 --> 01:49:03,970
I mean, obviously, all these projects you do at university are small, but it's the skills that they equip you with.

1063
01:49:03,970 --> 01:49:07,360
So with me as a producer, I was managing budgets, although they're small,

1064
01:49:07,360 --> 01:49:15,880
at least I was used to working with them and I was used to understanding what funding I needed if I could source it from anyone.

1065
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:23,950
And doing basic things like applying to J.C. Ole's for for for funding, I mean, but certainly for me anyway, it was very helpful.

1066
01:49:23,950 --> 01:49:28,870
Being able to know exactly what proportion of your budget was going to be coming

1067
01:49:28,870 --> 01:49:32,860
from external funders and how much you actually had to raise and raise you herself.

1068
01:49:32,860 --> 01:49:41,560
Finding out your break evens for ticket sales, managing all of your C allocations and all the more logistical planning for that was very helpful.

1069
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:50,110
And then for me. I guess my return to theatre was because I had such an interest in the actual production making process of it itself.

1070
01:49:50,110 --> 01:49:59,640
So I was very interested in how text went to be something visual and something that was experienced by by audience members or was quite.

1071
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:07,930
And I think because of that, I'm sort of interpretive development that that's why I became interested in in theatre.

1072
01:50:07,930 --> 01:50:11,620
Also with, um, with our history, with, as I mentioned,

1073
01:50:11,620 --> 01:50:16,930
the other thing I was involved with there was the activist society when it started out sort of out here.

1074
01:50:16,930 --> 01:50:25,180
So understanding that art is a collaborative thing and you don't just necessarily work with artists or fine artists,

1075
01:50:25,180 --> 01:50:34,120
but you can work with designers, you work with filmmakers, you work with a lot of different people with very creative brains and theatre.

1076
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:37,840
For me, anyways, it brings quite a lot of those those things together.

1077
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:43,090
And that's what I would I was interested in collaboration, so that's why I went.

1078
01:50:43,090 --> 01:50:49,500
You see here how these interests that we've kind of grown up with has morphed into very, very different careers.

1079
01:50:49,500 --> 01:51:00,702
I'd like to join the EU in a huge octopus because everyone.