1 00:00:01,860 --> 00:00:07,380 Hello, in 43 B.C., a year after the assassination of Julius Caesar, 2 00:00:07,380 --> 00:00:12,450 a man's severed head and hands were nailed to the speaker's podium of the Roman Senate. 3 00:00:12,450 --> 00:00:20,580 They had belonged to Marcus Tullius Cicero, who had risen from humble origins to become one of the most significant political figures in Rome. 4 00:00:20,580 --> 00:00:27,690 An advocate by training master orator. His name has become a byword for rhetorical skill and eloquence. 5 00:00:27,690 --> 00:00:35,970 He lived a remarkable life in the dying days of the Republic, but also wrote extensively on rhetorical theory, religion and philosophy. 6 00:00:35,970 --> 00:00:41,430 The legacy of his writings on Western education and thought in the Middle Ages was immense. 7 00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:50,940 Today, we focussed on his earliest surviving work. DiNunzio name, meaning on Invention, is a treatise on rhetoric written by Cicero as a young man, 8 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:57,990 though criticised by the author later in his life, became one of the most influential books on rhetoric in mediaeval Europe. 9 00:00:57,990 --> 00:01:05,820 With me to discuss Cicero and invention are Terry Hirsch, a recent classics defo graduate of Lincoln College. 10 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:10,410 Alice Hubbard, a third year undergraduate classics student at Corpus Christi College. 11 00:01:10,410 --> 00:01:15,390 And Andres Sillett, a lecturer in classical language and literature at Brisbane's College. 12 00:01:15,390 --> 00:01:20,280 Thank you for joining me. Andrew, perhaps you could start by putting Cicero in context. 13 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,860 When was he born? Where did he live? Yes. So Marcus Tullius Cicero was born from a humble background, 14 00:01:25,860 --> 00:01:32,560 born on a hill town called R.P.M., just out well, quite a bit outside Rome, son of a scholar, 15 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,240 I suppose we could call him a man who spent most of his time in libraries, 16 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:43,350 the grandson of a local Roman politician, sorry, a local politician in his Italian town of Domino Bless. 17 00:01:43,350 --> 00:01:47,760 Local town councillor. Exactly, yes. Except far more puffed up. 18 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,860 It's a town that has plenty of connexions with Rome. People born there are all citizens. 19 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:58,090 And at the time that Cicero was born there, starting to export their great talents to the city of Rome, 20 00:01:58,090 --> 00:02:04,260 people like Marius Grittiness are being sent out to Rome and are started to rise to the political ranks. 21 00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:09,510 They're no doubt wanting to harness some of that glory for his own children. 22 00:02:09,510 --> 00:02:13,860 The father of Marcus Tullius Cicero sends his two sons, Knox and Quintus, 23 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:20,550 to Rome to get an education at the house of Crassest, one of the biggest aristocrats of the time. 24 00:02:20,550 --> 00:02:27,330 You have to remind me when this was the first century B.C., that 106 B.C. he's born. 25 00:02:27,330 --> 00:02:31,620 And in his teenage years, Cicero was sent to Rome to get his education. 26 00:02:31,620 --> 00:02:33,810 And what did he learn? What was he being taught? 27 00:02:33,810 --> 00:02:41,100 Well, as I'm sure Terry will be able to tell us later, oratory is the absolute backbone of a young Roman male's education. 28 00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:43,680 You learn how to speak. You will be able to succeed in life. 29 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:49,830 Everything in Roman life hinges on your ability to make a good speech, make a persuasive argument that can be speaking in court, 30 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:55,040 that can be persuading a business partner to do something that can be persuaded the whole Senate to go to war. 31 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,320 If you can't speak, you can't function in Rome. 32 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:06,240 Perhaps a point worth making on education system is that basically only the upper layer of society gets to rhetorical studies. 33 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,050 The lower class of Roman society, if lucky, 34 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:16,950 would be able to read and write and then something like middle class would make it to what we might call secondary education, 35 00:03:16,950 --> 00:03:25,200 where you would learn about the interpretation of the poets and then basically the upper layer of society would go on 36 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:33,600 to rhetorical studies because it's only for people who would enter the profession of advocate and political life, 37 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:40,140 who really need the rhetorical tools to be successful in what they are doing. 38 00:03:40,140 --> 00:03:47,370 So from what it sounds like, Cicero, OK, he wasn't born into the Roman elite, but he still had some influence from his father. 39 00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:50,790 And he got, would you say, the best education that could have been got at that time? 40 00:03:50,790 --> 00:03:59,130 I think that's very fair to say. Crisis's famous for the number of young people from all backgrounds, but all wealthy backgrounds, 41 00:03:59,130 --> 00:04:05,610 whether they've got political forerunners or whether they're Roman businessmen, the wealthy elite are sending their children to classes. 42 00:04:05,610 --> 00:04:12,840 And the sort of child he is producing at the end of this is the sort of person that's going to dominate the Senate and types and types to come. 43 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:19,110 So we've heard this word advocate in the introduction, in his speech, an advocate is what's necessary become. 44 00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:23,370 So perhaps we should describe exactly what that is. Alice, I want to come in. 45 00:04:23,370 --> 00:04:31,290 Well, there's a big division between an advocate and a lawyer in the sense that we would think of it in as much as the Roman judicial system, 46 00:04:31,290 --> 00:04:34,140 very different from ours, and that there's no Crown Prosecution Service. 47 00:04:34,140 --> 00:04:44,430 And as such, if you want a case to be brought, it has to be a very personal issue and done motivated by personal concern or personal grudge provided. 48 00:04:44,430 --> 00:04:52,050 I'm afraid that the position of advocate, therefore, is very much more perhaps what we would think of as a barrister than as a just as a lawyer. 49 00:04:52,050 --> 00:04:58,080 They don't ah, they aren't concerned so much with interpretation of the law itself as putting a persuasive case, 50 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,220 which is probably what makes retention such an interesting text. 51 00:05:01,220 --> 00:05:07,450 This has actually comparatively little in comparison to Cicero's later oratorio work day or 52 00:05:07,450 --> 00:05:14,010 SERTORI than one might expect on linguistic flair and far more on the putting of a case. 53 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:16,250 Well, so thank you very much for that explanation. 54 00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:23,720 And you've brought in these two critical works from Cicero's that I suspect will spend most of the rest of the programme talking about. 55 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:29,240 So Diva Journey. It was written quite early in Cicero's life. 56 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:35,090 Went about we think it was written, Terry. We don't know exactly when. 57 00:05:35,090 --> 00:05:38,900 So we can't pin it down to a particular year. 58 00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:45,370 And guesses spanned from the late 90s to the late 80s. 59 00:05:45,370 --> 00:05:52,610 So if we think of him being born in 106 B.C., he's really very younger than almost all of us around this table. 60 00:05:52,610 --> 00:06:02,510 Late teenagers, early, early 20s. Yes, that's very precocious exercise at the age of 16 to sit down and write a handbook to the first stage. 61 00:06:02,510 --> 00:06:09,150 But on the other hand, advocates normally appear first in the courts at the age of around 20. 62 00:06:09,150 --> 00:06:12,440 So it's a major difference with what we have today. 63 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:19,610 And in that sense, it's very probable that he wrote this treatise before he had his first major cases. 64 00:06:19,610 --> 00:06:25,460 And that's basically the first major case that we know of was in 81 B.C., I think. 65 00:06:25,460 --> 00:06:30,560 And so that's a likely date before which it was written. 66 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:40,040 And the latest internal evidence that we have in the invention refers to 94 B.C. So it's very likely that it was written before 94 B.C., 67 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,060 81 B.C., but between after 94. Yes, exactly. 68 00:06:44,060 --> 00:06:48,770 I believe Sisodia comments on the writing of it, saying both that it was written at the time that he was a poor, 69 00:06:48,770 --> 00:06:51,230 but also at the time that he was adult sentence, 70 00:06:51,230 --> 00:06:57,170 which is two different kind of classes in revenue concerning not really as we would think of adolescence, 71 00:06:57,170 --> 00:07:03,410 but that is perhaps the time that you would enter public life in your own right, whereas as a poor you wouldn't. 72 00:07:03,410 --> 00:07:08,210 So it's difficult working where the intersection between these two slightly very area. 73 00:07:08,210 --> 00:07:13,940 This information is given by Cicero at the beginning of the Atauro book one. 74 00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:19,690 But the context there is that he basically wants to denigrate his youth for the invention. 75 00:07:19,690 --> 00:07:27,110 And so the question is whether we can actually use the information of poor versus adolescents less 76 00:07:27,110 --> 00:07:36,680 cantaloupe's as referring to precise time spent in his life or whether it was just another a humble brag. 77 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:44,660 Yeah, a trick of Cicero saying, well, although I'm just about to write what will probably be my masterwork. 78 00:07:44,660 --> 00:07:47,840 Actually, when I was very young, I already wrote something, 79 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:54,690 but now I'm much better than everyone else is still writing the sort of book that I was writing when I was young. 80 00:07:54,690 --> 00:08:04,190 But I've made some progress since. That territory you wrote in your notes was the next book you wrote about rhetoric, but many years later. 81 00:08:04,190 --> 00:08:08,990 Yes. So Delattre probably moisturisers wrong. 82 00:08:08,990 --> 00:08:20,840 Harris was written in 55 B.C. and so we've got about 30 years in between where Cicero didn't write any theoretical treatise at all, 83 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:28,700 neither on rhetoric nor on philosophy. The most probable explanation for that is that he was so busy as an advocate and as 84 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:34,280 a politician that there was just no time and no reason for him to spend time on 85 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,840 writing things that not everyone might be interested in and for which you might not 86 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:44,450 be as famous as if you were acting on the forum as an advocate or as a politician. 87 00:08:44,450 --> 00:08:48,530 You can see how philosophical treatise written when you've already made a name for yourself, 88 00:08:48,530 --> 00:08:51,050 really just spinning out your fame and a version of writing. 89 00:08:51,050 --> 00:08:57,830 You know, it's the sort of equivalent of the paperback autobiography you might see in Smith or, say, Cherie Blair. 90 00:08:57,830 --> 00:09:01,940 After the Blair years spinning out the fame she's had in the past. 91 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:05,330 My friends around the table may disagree with me in this, but personally, 92 00:09:05,330 --> 00:09:12,590 I actually think that Cicero is a philosophical writing is really nowhere near as good as his oratorical writing. 93 00:09:12,590 --> 00:09:19,460 And it's very I mean, it's very well characterised. It's still very much got the cicerone in flavour in terms of his. 94 00:09:19,460 --> 00:09:25,070 He's very moralising, especially in a working day of Vickie's, which is about your kind of duty to your fellow man. 95 00:09:25,070 --> 00:09:35,130 Well, you probably could say that in Cicero later, theoretical works, you always feel the advocate speaking. 96 00:09:35,130 --> 00:09:45,410 So he's not a neutral scholar writing about it, but he has strong opinion, popular philosophy written by a an old hag. 97 00:09:45,410 --> 00:09:54,170 Like what we also have to bear in mind is basically the rhetorical treatises and the philosophical truths, especially the philosophical treatises. 98 00:09:54,170 --> 00:10:01,510 Most people who would be reading such treatises would be able to read the Greek original. 99 00:10:01,510 --> 00:10:08,240 And would need Cicero as a translator in many senses to just refer the content of those books. 100 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:18,220 And so what Cicero is doing is giving his interpretation and his views on those subjects, and he's creating a language in which you can do that. 101 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:22,780 I think that's a very important point to make about Cicero is a philosophical project, 102 00:10:22,780 --> 00:10:27,760 is that he's interested in creating a language in which you can talk about philosophy in Latin. 103 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,780 You have to remember that philosophy is an entirely Greek invention at this point. 104 00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:37,400 It's based around the Greek language. Plato's dialogues are intensely interested in how the language of Greek, 105 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,920 specifically Greek language, can tell you things about the nature of the world. 106 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,560 Converting that into another language, the very idea that that could be possible shouldn't be taken as read. 107 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:51,130 And it's part of Cicero's boast about his command of the Latin language that he 108 00:10:51,130 --> 00:10:54,850 can transfer these great concepts out of their native tongue and into Latin. 109 00:10:54,850 --> 00:11:02,440 You think of French existential philosophy, for example. So much of it is based, for example, on French puns. 110 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:08,110 To be able to translate the radar into English, you'd have to have enormous command of the French language and of the English 111 00:11:08,110 --> 00:11:13,120 language to be able to convey those very lexical ideas in your in a new tongue. 112 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,880 And it's probably thought of in those terms, 113 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:24,340 it's Cicero's way of boasting about his command of the Latin language and of Greek that he can do this and allow other people to take up the torch of. 114 00:11:24,340 --> 00:11:33,460 Did he have to invent new Latin words, a new vocabulary to express these great concepts, or did he manipulate everything with what he found? 115 00:11:33,460 --> 00:11:38,800 I think what we can say is so clever is that he chose to stay as far as possible away from creating new words. 116 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,570 In many ways, that would be an admission of failure if you have to create a new language to do this, 117 00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:48,490 it's about repurposing the words that he has and creating new metaphors for understanding things. 118 00:11:48,490 --> 00:11:53,980 One of the big problems that Cicero comes across is that Latin doesn't have a definite article, 119 00:11:53,980 --> 00:12:00,250 and so much of platonic thought is about using the definite article to talk about the qualities of things, 120 00:12:00,250 --> 00:12:05,470 talk alone, the beautiful thing, the quality of beauty that is in every single thing. 121 00:12:05,470 --> 00:12:09,730 If you try and take that into Latin, you don't have a definite article. How do you do that? 122 00:12:09,730 --> 00:12:15,820 Cicero has to go through various metaphors and use abstract nouns, for example, to make that make that work. 123 00:12:15,820 --> 00:12:22,030 But he tries to stay as far as possible away from creating new words in a way that would make it look like he's creating a new jargon. 124 00:12:22,030 --> 00:12:28,120 I think that's the important thing to say, doesn't create a new job. And he makes it feel like a natural Latin that you would see in a courtroom. 125 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,740 For example, the early attempt to address there's a work by Lucretius, rather, 126 00:12:32,740 --> 00:12:37,780 I'm not sure which is an attempt to bring epicurean philosophy into the Roman mainstream. 127 00:12:37,780 --> 00:12:44,320 And he's almost evangelical about it as a way of thought, and for that reason presents it in verse, 128 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:50,620 which may seem very idiotic for philosophy, but actually many read it as an attempt to make it attractive reading. 129 00:12:50,620 --> 00:12:52,030 But that's not the other. 130 00:12:52,030 --> 00:13:00,190 There's no way to know what Cicero does, but it's part of it as part of a wider tradition of what you what you would call kind of a in society, 131 00:13:00,190 --> 00:13:07,570 which is a love in Rome of Greek culture and a once simultaneously not not just not merely to appropriate it, 132 00:13:07,570 --> 00:13:14,380 but to develop it further to, as it were, reclaim it of Fantuzzi, I feel with brother ahead of time. 133 00:13:14,380 --> 00:13:17,290 But it's wonderful getting a real sense of perhaps a slightly older Cicero, 134 00:13:17,290 --> 00:13:21,190 his advocate style, what he brought to the Roman literature and philosophy. 135 00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:28,120 But this is, I think, what he told me earlier, actually quite a different style of thought to what he had much earlier in his life. 136 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,910 And so I think it's time to get back to the thing we've been talking around the states. 137 00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:41,170 Right. What is this book about theory? This book is basically a rhetorical handbook. 138 00:13:41,170 --> 00:13:46,780 So it's a practical manual doing a theoretical manual. 139 00:13:46,780 --> 00:13:54,820 So something which we think is very close to what was actually taught in the rhetorical schools and Rome, 140 00:13:54,820 --> 00:14:03,670 although we don't have any concrete evidence of this so that we could see what was really going on inside the schools. 141 00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:09,490 And since there was nothing like the Roman syllabus and rhetoric, 142 00:14:09,490 --> 00:14:14,260 basically every teacher could more or less define what he would create in the schools. 143 00:14:14,260 --> 00:14:21,220 There were several standard things, but within those rules, you could still add things, leave others out, 144 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:29,030 and also depending basically on the preferences that you would have for certain predecessors, what is Cicero choose to focus on? 145 00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:35,630 So the VENTURINI basically was announced as the first part of a major project. 146 00:14:35,630 --> 00:14:42,760 So Cicero says that you will treat all the so-called parties artists. 147 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:51,790 So literal translation would be parts of the art of the theory and which we might rephrase our stages in the composition of a speech. 148 00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:57,940 Inventure is the thinking out of the content of your speech. 149 00:14:57,940 --> 00:15:07,360 Cicero defines it as follows. Invention is the discovery of valid or seemingly valid points to render once course plausible. 150 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,250 So that's basically the first step that you have to make, just thinking what you are going to talk about. 151 00:15:12,250 --> 00:15:18,010 And then the next step would be to arrange all this content for your speech. 152 00:15:18,010 --> 00:15:28,210 And then you go on and think about which stylistic level do I want to use and which phrasing do I want to use in certain parts of your speech, 153 00:15:28,210 --> 00:15:34,450 then you memorised the whole thing or let's say the the beginning, the end and the most important parts in between. 154 00:15:34,450 --> 00:15:40,690 Basically, you just memorise the most important ideas and then basically you improvise around that. 155 00:15:40,690 --> 00:15:43,780 And the final step is then basically delivering the speech. 156 00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:53,140 And so the invention is just the first part of a multivolume work which Cicero announced and which he never would write. 157 00:15:53,140 --> 00:16:01,060 So he would write the invention. And then basically they have a large project comes to an end and we don't think it's it's lost in translation. 158 00:16:01,060 --> 00:16:06,100 You actually think he never wrote it? Well, there are several elements that suggest that he never wrote it. 159 00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:10,510 So he doesn't refer to it at all in his later works. 160 00:16:10,510 --> 00:16:14,920 We don't know of any other parts, for example, mentioned by Quintillion. 161 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:23,870 And so it seems very likely that Cicero wrote the invention just before he embarked on his career as an advocate became. 162 00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:29,090 Too busy to pursue. That's not a project, and then just give it up for career purposes. 163 00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:34,040 It seems almost impossible to imagine that he could have written the whole thing off deep into you on a day, 164 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:39,970 disposition day or not in a day, Memorial Day without quintillion making some reference. 165 00:16:39,970 --> 00:16:45,260 That is a later story. And later, he's a professor of rhetoric under treason. 166 00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:47,660 He writes a book that's called Instituto. 167 00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:53,270 Or of course, the training of the orator is just impossible to imagine that something like this would be catnip to Quintel. 168 00:16:53,270 --> 00:16:57,440 He had written his own institute or stories, then he would be all over it. 169 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,390 In addition to this, it's worth remembering that so much of this Israelian corpus is preserved that it would 170 00:17:02,390 --> 00:17:08,240 almost be surprising if we had not only a speech that we didn't have the text of, 171 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:13,610 but also that we have no mention of, given that he's such an important figure in history at the time. 172 00:17:13,610 --> 00:17:19,160 We'll talk with Syria a bit more about the detailed structure and content of a different tune. 173 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:25,350 But let's go back to our general chronology of Jethro's life. I think we've left him at around 81. 174 00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:32,450 It's just become an advocate. And there's this one particular case, very famous case, where he makes his name in a big way. 175 00:17:32,450 --> 00:17:39,350 Andrew, you want to comment on that? We happy to say. I think we imagine that Cicero has been knocking around the civil law courts at this time, 176 00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:44,750 helping out in various cases to do with inheritance or property or trust, etc. 177 00:17:44,750 --> 00:17:47,930 The civil law circuit is very different from the criminal law circuit. 178 00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:52,790 Criminal law, as you can imagine, is where you can really let your oratorical fireworks go off. 179 00:17:52,790 --> 00:18:01,670 At Cicero, his first big break in the criminal courts is defending a man named Russkis from another Italian small Italian town called Amaria. 180 00:18:01,670 --> 00:18:07,160 And Russkis has been a very naughty boy and has been charged with a parasite that is murdering 181 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:12,620 his own father in order to inherit the farms on the basis that he was about to be disinherited. 182 00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:18,860 Cicero very cleverly makes the argument that, in fact, Russkis didn't murder his his father. 183 00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:24,410 And in fact, it was the prosecution that people prosecuted for murder were actually responsible for it. 184 00:18:24,410 --> 00:18:28,720 And in fact, they'd engaged in some very clever backroom deal to murder Russkis. 185 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:39,230 His father use the context of the Roman civil war that was boiling away in the background to steal the property of rockiest senior, 186 00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:43,790 blame the son for the murder so the son wouldn't come after them to try and get his property back, 187 00:18:43,790 --> 00:18:48,590 and then they could retire and live on these lovely country estates in peace. 188 00:18:48,590 --> 00:18:58,550 And according to Cicero, the prosecution were relying on the defence of the dictator Soulas Friedland as one of his ex slaves being behind this whole 189 00:18:58,550 --> 00:19:05,450 plot and had all been so scared of this fellow sogginess that no one would dare mention in court the fact that the conspiracy, 190 00:19:05,450 --> 00:19:12,140 if you like, went right to the very top. This is like a Watergate style. But the ambitious young Cicero has has the guts to do this. 191 00:19:12,140 --> 00:19:15,740 Well, that's what he tells us. Why? The other way of looking at it is he makes the whole thing up, 192 00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:23,600 that this is the ambitious young Cicero is prepared to play with fire in accusing the Friedman of someone like Soula of doing this. 193 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:29,930 So either he's incredibly brave and follows the money right up to the White House and exposes a great corruption. 194 00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:37,520 Or he's prepared to make up such a fantastical story that you can't help but notice him in Cicero. 195 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,550 Make sure we know when he writes the speech, says things like, 196 00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:46,100 I can see you all looking with open mouths and gasping at the fact that I'm going to mention this, 197 00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:50,690 but I'm going to accuse you cry sogginess, point him as being behind this whole plot. 198 00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:55,970 And I think he's relying on the fact that the jury who's going to be made up of senators 199 00:19:55,970 --> 00:20:00,680 at this time is the real political elite that these people are going to be so sick of, 200 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:08,300 the injustices carried out under the civil war that they're going to want to get some revenge or get some catharsis, 201 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:14,570 if you like, for those things later. Maybe we can just save this one person and we can undo some of the injustices 202 00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:18,800 by stopping this person suffering the very unusual punishment for parricide, 203 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:24,620 which is to be tied up in a sack, possibly with a snake and thrown in a river. 204 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:30,650 It's potentially worth adding to that a bit about why Cicero had chosen so many hot topics. 205 00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:37,250 Corruption is a big deal for Romans, especially in a period of civil war that oscillates between two political systems, 206 00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:42,980 one of complete Republicanism, not perhaps Democratic, entirely democratic Republicanism. 207 00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:51,890 As the lack of social mobility means that you cannot to be something, but some sharing of power between power, between organ, of government. 208 00:20:51,890 --> 00:20:55,220 Well, the primary organ, a legislative body would be the Senate. 209 00:20:55,220 --> 00:21:01,490 And therefore, the power is, to an extent, in the hands, at least of the political elite rather than one that is an aristocratic aristocratic. 210 00:21:01,490 --> 00:21:11,330 Yeah, but that's contrasted with with Sena is the first for a while to bring bring about a state of dictatorship, 211 00:21:11,330 --> 00:21:16,880 which is something that Romans absolutely hate because they think that it brings about the hate 212 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,410 kings historically and that it brings about potential for a great deal of corruption in their view, 213 00:21:21,410 --> 00:21:28,300 because in Roman politics. To a great extent on the client patron relationship, and if you have, as it were, 214 00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:35,140 one super patron who controls through their kind of bounty, I think were all of the political favours descending from them, 215 00:21:35,140 --> 00:21:40,270 it means that there's a greater potential than if there were more checks and balances for stuff 216 00:21:40,270 --> 00:21:46,870 like this to go unnoticed because the perpetrator of such a deed is high up to someone and say, 217 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:53,530 and so this man, this is the person that Cicero effectively accuses. 218 00:21:53,530 --> 00:21:59,980 Exactly. And he's using his Friedemann. You're accusing him and is very careful to say, I'm not accusing Sollar. 219 00:21:59,980 --> 00:22:02,530 I'm accusing the other things. 220 00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:11,590 So Friedemann are also a bit of a nose wrinkling topic for the Roman elite, because because basically because they're not of proper origin, 221 00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:17,770 they're not their slaves who have made a lot of money or gained a lot of influence in non-traditional route, as it were, 222 00:22:17,770 --> 00:22:25,120 by sort of taking the jobs of the Roman aristocratic sons in that taking almost civil service like positions. 223 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,340 What I'm sure we could we could make a whole other of about and go on. 224 00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:32,260 But that is so this really makes a big splash. 225 00:22:32,260 --> 00:22:42,880 It makes a big splash. And it's a topic that can twangs so many heart strings that almost the truth of it is less important than its sensationalism. 226 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:49,240 And this sets him on the way until about 20 years later we have him as a as consul. 227 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,210 Exactly. So at the same time, he's trying to make his name as the world's best orator. 228 00:22:53,210 --> 00:22:58,420 He's also trying to get himself elected into this aristocratic elite that we've been talking about, 229 00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:02,920 very difficult to break into, born into the right family. But Rome is essentially democratic. 230 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:10,330 To get into each magistracy, you have to be elected by the people. So he's standing for election as he goes along using his court cases, his speeches, 231 00:23:10,330 --> 00:23:13,240 and call his prosecution, his prosecution of the corrupt governor, various. 232 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:19,600 For example, he set himself up as the man who's going to clean up the the morals of Rome as islands. 233 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,950 And he guarantees his election to one of the more difficult magistracy by using his career. 234 00:23:23,950 --> 00:23:26,890 And by 63, P.S., he's reached the pinnacle of that. 235 00:23:26,890 --> 00:23:35,950 The highest magistracy of the consulship will leave no religion there and come back to to gionet services 30 years earlier. 236 00:23:35,950 --> 00:23:41,480 What's the structure of this work, Gerry? So it comes in two books. 237 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:51,700 One could superficially perhaps say that the first book contains or the most important decisions and definitions, 238 00:23:51,700 --> 00:24:01,420 and that book, too, could be seen as some kind of set of footnotes that expands on what was presented in the first book. 239 00:24:01,420 --> 00:24:04,600 So it fills up the gaps that Cicero had to leave out. 240 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:12,760 And because of the restrictions that you had on book writing back then, you didn't have the possibilities of layouts that we have today. 241 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:19,030 And so basically, you have to think about how you approach breaking down a very complex set of 242 00:24:19,030 --> 00:24:24,580 rules into something which you can digest and present in so called voluminous. 243 00:24:24,580 --> 00:24:29,980 So basically book role and you have physical limitations of the length. 244 00:24:29,980 --> 00:24:34,270 And so part of his style was governed by the publishing. 245 00:24:34,270 --> 00:24:40,060 I wouldn't say the style, but it's basically the length, the structure, the. 246 00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:48,550 Yeah, exactly. Are the footnotes longer than the book one book two is significantly longer than book one. 247 00:24:48,550 --> 00:24:59,950 So basically if I come to the content of the the two books, both start with Proem and so on, from being a very artful introduction. 248 00:24:59,950 --> 00:25:09,050 So in the first Proem, he presents rhetoric combined with philosophy as a major force in the early process of civilisation. 249 00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:16,390 So claiming a very big role of rhetoric for mankind is the small claim. 250 00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:24,970 In the second book, he talks about why relying on several sources presents many great benefits. 251 00:25:24,970 --> 00:25:33,200 And so it's kind of moving away from the topic of the main part of the work and addressing other issues. 252 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:42,400 So kind of on the philosophical level, which might make us wonder whether this points were really written at the same time as the rest of the work. 253 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:52,390 Now, in two, after the programme, you've got the most fundamental definitions and divisions on which the rest of the work is relying. 254 00:25:52,390 --> 00:26:01,630 So basically, if you don't know anything about rhetoric and if you leave out those passages in the first part of book one, 255 00:26:01,630 --> 00:26:10,660 you have very hard time of understanding what's really going on. So that's again about how do you construct a theoretical treatise like that? 256 00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:20,320 You have your introduction and then you say, well, I'm now going to give you the most important definitions and how I structure the whole thing. 257 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,790 And after that, saying this is quite a. 258 00:26:23,790 --> 00:26:33,630 A formal trial, yes, defining the terms you're going to use and then you go on to develop and you will even notice that throughout McKewon, 259 00:26:33,630 --> 00:26:43,290 he's also very formulaic in how he starts and ends each part on certain topic that he's talking about. 260 00:26:43,290 --> 00:26:49,680 So basically, for example, he is just finished talking about, say, the narrative. 261 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,400 He says, well, that's everything that I've had to say on the topic. 262 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:59,580 Which one might want to say on this topic? Now I come to the next topic and then he starts with it. 263 00:26:59,580 --> 00:27:05,460 And so that helps the reader to see, OK, next chapter logical structure is very clear. 264 00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:10,620 Would you call it ever ponderous or does he still have, even as a very young man with the language, 265 00:27:10,620 --> 00:27:17,220 let's say today, since we have all these very nice means of layout and so on, 266 00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:25,530 where you can really see, OK, now this chapter is over as an entirely new topic that will be addressed in the next paragraph. 267 00:27:25,530 --> 00:27:36,450 You didn't have those divisions in ancient books, and so basically you needed those phrases to indicate that your topic will change now. 268 00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:40,780 And so it helps the reader to understand that's a new topic is being introduced. 269 00:27:40,780 --> 00:27:49,860 And since you didn't have any clear cut divisions in ancient book rules, let's go back to Cicero's life. 270 00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:55,500 And I think it's also time we've been going for nearly half an hour now. We should hear some of his some of his words. 271 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:59,910 So there are particular series of cases that I can't remember, whether it was Andrew or Alice. 272 00:27:59,910 --> 00:28:09,720 You mentioned them earlier from the period between 81 B.C and his consulship in 63 B.C. Do you want to remind us about those? 273 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,670 Yes. Yes, happily, yes. Going back to there is the corrupt governor of Sicily. 274 00:28:14,670 --> 00:28:23,820 As I think I mentioned earlier, Rome lacks a crown prosecution service and relies on king young men to bring cases against the great criminals. 275 00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:28,650 So one of the charges that Cicero lays against various is that he's been putting Roman citizens 276 00:28:28,650 --> 00:28:34,440 to death without trial in order to try and cover up the crimes that he's been committing. 277 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:42,930 And the the conclusion of the speech as he publishes it is a claim that a Roman citizen was crucified without trial. 278 00:28:42,930 --> 00:28:48,450 Crucifixion, as we know from our Bible studies, is that the most shameful death that the Roman authorities could inflict on people, 279 00:28:48,450 --> 00:28:51,600 that something that it was absolutely forbidden to inflict on a Roman citizen. 280 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,890 If you're a Roman citizen, you have a right not to be executed at all without trial. 281 00:28:55,890 --> 00:28:59,790 But even under the most extreme circumstances, the idea of being nailed to a piece of wood, 282 00:28:59,790 --> 00:29:05,910 a Roman certainly now to a piece of wood is the worst thing you could possibly imagine in Cicero 283 00:29:05,910 --> 00:29:11,790 uses this to conclude his speech in order to inflame the passions of the jury to convict this man, 284 00:29:11,790 --> 00:29:14,520 somebody would do something this barbaric. And I think I was prepared. 285 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:24,870 I have some kind of bartal wiggers in Medio for Massah Nike with Romanis Uniphase come in today are no skeleton's 286 00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:34,560 nula works only Ileus Mzoudi intent on law and capital kiplagat algae bartal Nisse hich Kiwi's Romanos, 287 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:41,100 which translates there in the open marketplace of Messala, 288 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:49,620 a Roman citizen gentleman was beaten with rods and all the while amid the crack of the falling blows, no groan was heard from the unhappy woman. 289 00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:56,610 No words came from his lips in his agony. Except I am a Roman citizen and this is a piece of oratory that was so powerful 290 00:29:56,610 --> 00:30:02,370 that when President Kennedy went to visit Berlin at the height of the Cold War, 291 00:30:02,370 --> 00:30:07,560 his Ich bin ein Berliner line is a translation of that in the way he introduces the Berliner. 292 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,630 Lt is to say there was a time when the proudest boast one could say was he was reminded. 293 00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:21,300 So now the proudest words that can pass the human lips are Ich bin ein Berliner, which it actually means over Queensland's Gulf of Mexico. 294 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:32,220 I find that error in this or in reception that let's face it, I think the final time with time waits for no man. 295 00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:39,960 Let's go back to theory, maybe, if anything, about the content and structure of the book that you feel we haven't adequately touched on yet. 296 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:48,210 But also there's another text on rhetoric for about the same time as David Broder called her a new part of my letter, 297 00:30:48,210 --> 00:30:51,960 which has a rather peculiar relationship with importuning. 298 00:30:51,960 --> 00:31:00,450 So basically concerning the structure of the invention, as I explained, it only covers the first stage in the composition of a speech. 299 00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:05,340 And rhetorical are two random covers, all five stages. 300 00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:07,800 And so in that sense, 301 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:17,580 with regard to running is more complete than the invention for anyone who uses it to get information about the theory of action rhetoric. 302 00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:24,330 But for rhetorical invention itself, Cicero's treatise is much more details, much more. 303 00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:30,690 For that purpose, but what's striking is that both works have great similarities in content, 304 00:31:30,690 --> 00:31:38,040 food, rhetoric and invention and in many places even similarities or identities in phrasing, 305 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:47,910 which suggests that we've got somehow some at least one or probably several identical sources in the background, 306 00:31:47,910 --> 00:31:51,700 either in Latin or Greek and done differently. 307 00:31:51,700 --> 00:32:00,300 Translated What was it? Thought that Cicero wrote both texts. It was considered in late antiquity and the Middle Ages, 308 00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:12,360 basically up to the year fourteen hundred and ninety two that both works were about Cicero and called the old and the new rhetoric. 309 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:24,180 And in fourteen ninety two, a humanist from Venice called Ruffa Radius thought that rhetoric at random actually was not by Cicero. 310 00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:30,630 And from that time on we've basically got one of the greatest mysteries of Latin literature 311 00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:38,050 and kind of game of identifying what is really going on between the two treatises. 312 00:32:38,050 --> 00:32:47,670 So basically, what is their relationship? Because is a is a no decided upon author for attorney for Turgut Iranian. 313 00:32:47,670 --> 00:32:51,360 There are some scholars who try to put a name on. 314 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:56,700 It is a Roman rhetorician mentioned by Quintiliano called Koney Figures, 315 00:32:56,700 --> 00:33:02,130 who in quintillion presents a couple of points that are similar to at Iranian. 316 00:33:02,130 --> 00:33:07,020 But I'm not exactly what we find in there. So that's basically the best guess that people do. 317 00:33:07,020 --> 00:33:11,400 But it's trying to pin a name on a treatise without it really fitting. 318 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,100 And also, we don't know that much about iconic figures. 319 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:20,370 Basically, if you put an empty name with a question mark on the treatise, it doesn't really make sense to do that. 320 00:33:20,370 --> 00:33:26,910 You send your notes that these two books were kind of a pinnacle of rhetorical teaching in Renaissance Europe. 321 00:33:26,910 --> 00:33:33,270 Exactly. And that was basically due to Cicero's great reputation. 322 00:33:33,270 --> 00:33:40,860 The oratorio disappeared in the shadow of the invention and at Iranian because it's more a 323 00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:46,650 philosophical discussion about what the idea of an orator and what rhetoric should be like. 324 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:56,130 And so it's not a user friendly manual, if you want, on rhetoric, whereas the Yoona and UDT Iranian are really handbook's on rhetoric, 325 00:33:56,130 --> 00:34:03,850 which you can use to get a very quick overlook on the most important concepts in rhetoric. 326 00:34:03,850 --> 00:34:13,990 Alice Hobert, we've left Cicero in 63 B.C., and he lives for about another 20 years and has a rather exciting time of it, both him and Rome. 327 00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:20,260 It's a small task, I know, but do you fancy taking us through some of the things that happened to Cicero the later part of his life? 328 00:34:20,260 --> 00:34:25,550 Well, I'll give it my best shot. A lot of confusing things is the main answer to that question. 329 00:34:25,550 --> 00:34:29,410 But I reckon it's best to begin with his exile. 330 00:34:29,410 --> 00:34:35,140 So his exile is that soon after his consulship, when relatively it really happens, 331 00:34:35,140 --> 00:34:43,420 is the result of political changes in Rome more than his activity or his opinions or speeches right at the time was an extreme, 332 00:34:43,420 --> 00:34:51,100 a place in extreme turmoil, civil wars, left, right and centre, and many people hoping to use the instability as an opportunity to rise to the top. 333 00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:55,720 At the time, a triumvirate was in power of Pompeii, Crassus and Julius Caesar. 334 00:34:55,720 --> 00:35:02,380 They invited Cicero to become the fourth member, but he declined because he disapproved of the triumvirate, 335 00:35:02,380 --> 00:35:09,340 because he felt that it took power away from the hands of the people in the Senate, the Cicero, the Republican, the arch Republican. 336 00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:14,110 He doesn't approve of any means of removing power from a fully public body. 337 00:35:14,110 --> 00:35:18,550 Therefore, he he refuses the offer to become a member of the triumvirate. 338 00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:23,620 Immediately following that, and possibly in response, there is a law put forward, 339 00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:33,040 I believe it's a law of 50 B.C. which threatens to exile anybody who has put citizens to death without trial. 340 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:41,200 And that includes Cicero. Does it? Oh, yes. A very a sort of perhaps the part of his history that people don't like to dwell on too much. 341 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:46,540 Cicero, as a result of the Catalan Aryan conspiracy, put people to death without trial. 342 00:35:46,540 --> 00:35:51,940 And this is during his consulship, during his consulship by by the means of his consular power. 343 00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:57,160 He was able, though perhaps not quite constitutionally soundly, to put men to death, 344 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,930 who he felt had been traitors or proved almost fairly conclusively in his speeches, 345 00:36:01,930 --> 00:36:11,740 have been traitors to the republic and hoping to overtake it themselves. So Cicero falls foul of the new political regime and gets exiled. 346 00:36:11,740 --> 00:36:19,480 Antonio Turki's or somewhere, I believe, Macedonia. Let me check that a Thessalonika, which is to me was quite a nice place. 347 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:27,100 I mean, of all the places to be exiled to, but it costs right into an extreme depression at which we can tell from any letters to his friend Atticus 348 00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:34,120 about how much he hates being removed from his political intrigues and Rome on his return from exile, 349 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,490 he tries to involve himself in the political life of Rome, but with limited success. 350 00:36:39,490 --> 00:36:47,530 He spends more of that time writing philosophy, not especially good philosophy about philosophy and sort of pontificating on various issues and 351 00:36:47,530 --> 00:36:52,660 really gets politically involved again in a substantial way after the death of Julius Caesar. 352 00:36:52,660 --> 00:36:57,310 This is photophobia, correct? Yes, 44 B.C. is the Ides of March. 353 00:36:57,310 --> 00:37:06,100 Julius Caesar is executed. And something which may surprise a lot of listeners is that Cicero claims that this took him entirely by surprise. 354 00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:11,200 The reason this would shock us is that he's incredibly politically involved man in touch with many of 355 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:18,910 the key players in Caesar's assassination and therefore his ignorance of the fact would be surprising, 356 00:37:18,910 --> 00:37:26,650 especially because we might imagine that he would actually come down on the side of those assassinating Caesar, disapproving of him as a dictator. 357 00:37:26,650 --> 00:37:35,930 Then he gets caught up in the incredibly complicated machinations around the country, second tremor of which I mean, maybe we shouldn't go into. 358 00:37:35,930 --> 00:37:41,770 But he writes a lot of letters. He a lot of less articles about his opinions on the main players in this time. 359 00:37:41,770 --> 00:37:46,360 I mean, really, the figures to focus on here is the man who assassinated him eventually, 360 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:55,000 Mark Anthony and Octavia and later known as Augustus, who wins out eventually on the power struggle to begin the Roman Empire. 361 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:02,200 Octavian is an underdog at the beginning. He's the official heir of Julius Caesar, but doesn't know this until the will is read out. 362 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,130 He isn't primed for his position and could easily have seemed, 363 00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:10,870 given that he didn't live in Rome and was not especially politically involved at the time, 364 00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:17,890 as a bit of a damp squib and certainly perhaps as someone who those more afraid of Roman politics 365 00:38:17,890 --> 00:38:25,120 could use as a pawn to bring about the settlement than they wanted using his power as a as a pawn. 366 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:34,900 Yes. And Cicero is also of this view. He feels that he writes in letters that he thinks that Octavian is naive and yes, 367 00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:40,210 could could could be could be used as a puppet, basically, to bring out his ends. 368 00:38:40,210 --> 00:38:45,580 And Octavian finds out about this and finds out about this and is understandably not happy. 369 00:38:45,580 --> 00:38:50,470 And that information, in fact, should colour our opinion of what happens later. 370 00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:56,380 I won't go into the incredibly complex machinations between Antony and Octavian. 371 00:38:56,380 --> 00:39:03,420 All I will say at this stage is that the main reason that Octavian and Antony fight is. 372 00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:08,680 Not really because of opposing morals, it's really should be more characterised simply as a power struggle. 373 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,340 Both of them have a lot of financial resources and a lot of troops at their disposal, and both want to be number one. 374 00:39:14,340 --> 00:39:20,910 And our main source for the history of this time comes from Cicero's is I'm afraid. 375 00:39:20,910 --> 00:39:25,170 Yes. I wish that we could say there are other sources as well. 376 00:39:25,170 --> 00:39:27,750 But there's a concern for several of them that they could, in fact, 377 00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:33,720 be based on the letters and extrapolating from them because they're written even 200 years after the event themselves. 378 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:39,870 But the alternative here is how lucky it is that Cicero wrote so voluminously it for a lot of that. 379 00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:50,010 We might not we might not at all. I mean, we're very lucky to have in some ways the exact opposite in terms of Sourcefire provided for us by the race. 380 00:39:50,010 --> 00:39:57,240 Gasteyer, which is an inscription written by Augustus detailing his achievements over his life and inscribed on his mausoleum. 381 00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:06,090 And he discusses this period, but very much paints it as a case of him taking responsibility to write the turmoil of Rome for the sake 382 00:40:06,090 --> 00:40:10,920 of the people and then have the power back to them as soon as he has a working constitution in place. 383 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:17,430 The fact that Rome then descends into empire suggests that this is some whitewashing his role and therefore we need 384 00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:25,370 to be careful and definitely use the sources against each other to sort of provide a less spun view of what happens. 385 00:40:25,370 --> 00:40:30,440 So Cicero doesn't have the financial resources, the army of my country, 386 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:37,010 of taking these major players in the civil war, but of course, he's trying to exercise what power he has. 387 00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:42,830 How does he try and do this the way Cicero always tries and does that, which is why oratory, 388 00:40:42,830 --> 00:40:47,660 he goes back to the Senate and a number of extremely powerful speeches. 389 00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:47,990 In fact, 390 00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:56,000 I think they're often considered some of the most florid work in the Cicerone and Corpus are issued to the Senate known as the Phillips collectively, 391 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:07,640 which is a pun really well, as close as Classics gets on a series of speeches given by DeMott Sunnis against a citizen called Philippa's in Athens, 392 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:16,830 the content of the speeches is to persuade the Senate to try and declare Antonya Hostis that is a public enemy and bar him from the state. 393 00:41:16,830 --> 00:41:18,650 It doesn't work, is the short answer. 394 00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:28,980 It doesn't work at all, especially because Octavian around this time gets wise to Cicero's attempts to play him and actually reconciles with Antony. 395 00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:33,090 Which leads to the foundation of the third triumvirate, the third member of this being Lepidus, 396 00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:38,460 who doesn't doesn't do a huge amount but still ought to be recognised the nature of triumph, 397 00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:41,790 which is really that it's a dictatorship with three people. That should be No. 398 00:41:41,790 --> 00:41:45,900 Two views about that. It doesn't refer power back to the Senate in any way. 399 00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:51,930 And as a result of this power, what the three men choose then to do is a system of prescription where they 400 00:41:51,930 --> 00:41:56,080 basically write down the name of anybody that's been nasty to them and kill them, 401 00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:07,020 simple, simple and sometimes effective. And sadly, Cicero goes down on this list for, well, the extreme polemic that he used against Anthony. 402 00:42:07,020 --> 00:42:12,060 I don't think I'd be happy to be the person condemned in those speeches. 403 00:42:12,060 --> 00:42:16,950 But it's actually said that the Octavian, despite being played by Cicero, 404 00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:22,680 despite discovering what Cicero said about him in the early days of his ascent onto the power scene in Rome, 405 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,570 actually argued for two days against Cicero, his name being on this list, 406 00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:32,850 but he lost the battle being at that stage very much the junior partner in this alliance. 407 00:42:32,850 --> 00:42:38,510 And he got his way and he got his way and the rest we've discussed. 408 00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:43,280 Three minutes left, I think we should talk about sectionally. I think we should I think it's John King. 409 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:49,190 It has been so far. I think one that you can say about, however interesting, the bare bones of rhetorical teaching might be, 410 00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:55,580 the exciting things this room could put them to a kid could put them to useful is amazing. 411 00:42:55,580 --> 00:43:03,890 One of my personal favourite speeches is the pro bono. And I'm hoping that Alice, somewhere in her laptop, will have a quote from this. 412 00:43:03,890 --> 00:43:09,980 It's a case that Cicero delivers a defence of a young man who's accused of beating up some Egyptian ambassadors and 413 00:43:09,980 --> 00:43:16,190 murdering and murdering them rather than confront any of the facts of this murder case that he's involved with. 414 00:43:16,190 --> 00:43:24,600 Cicero decides that the way to get ideas off is to distract the jury by talking about an illicit love affair, to throw dust in the jury. 415 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,930 Exactly. To kick the dust in their eyes. So Circumciser, talk about an affair this young man had with a very posh, 416 00:43:29,930 --> 00:43:35,780 recently widowed lady who just happened to be the sister of his great enemy just happened. 417 00:43:35,780 --> 00:43:44,480 So this is a passage in which he cast suspicion on the woman and on the grounds of her affair with coleus, 418 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:52,310 in which he feels that this was very much taking advantage of Wikinews and Scantlin aspects. 419 00:43:52,310 --> 00:43:58,130 Kandel who tear at procurators, Walters', Okalik, Pull-Out, Cyprus. 420 00:43:58,130 --> 00:44:00,500 We Daddy. What are we waiting for? Westing unknown. 421 00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:11,450 Come in is DeMatteis with Nobilis Mulya Illum Filion Familias parklet Parker Akton Akihabara to his copy's de Wigton non-partisan 422 00:44:11,450 --> 00:44:22,730 Kalki Tratt rest Bulleit Noncommutative Tona 2R Donna Saitoti Konforti Allio which translates itself as a neighbour. 423 00:44:22,730 --> 00:44:28,520 A young man caught your eye, his beauty, his tall figure, his looks and eyes took you by storm. 424 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,920 You wanted to see him often. You were sometimes with him in the same parks. 425 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:40,640 You are a great lady and by your wealth you want to keep hold of a young fellow who has a mean and niggardly father. 426 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:46,010 You cannot do it. He kicks. He treats you with contempt. He does not think your gifts are worth so much. 427 00:44:46,010 --> 00:44:51,050 Take yourself off somewhere else. So he wasn't afraid of an ad hominem attack. 428 00:44:51,050 --> 00:45:00,350 Oh, really? No, he he can do it. He continues against Claudia Claudia Martelly, who's also thought to be the subject of some poem by Catullus, 429 00:45:00,350 --> 00:45:07,280 the famous Lesbia, his lover, and therefore a somewhat notorious woman on the romance scene at the time. 430 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,620 I suppose you can make this the case by saying that she is related to the people who are bringing the prosecution against it. 431 00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:16,310 So if we think back to Cicero getting Roski as often his first case, 432 00:45:16,310 --> 00:45:21,680 I suggest that the people who are prosecuting him are actually responsible for this by denigrating Clojure in this way. 433 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,550 Cicero suggesting it's all a put up job, that she's just jealous of him breaking off the relationship. 434 00:45:25,550 --> 00:45:31,070 And if we move quickly to the death of Cicero was going to say so. So it's right on time, but it comes to a sticky end. 435 00:45:31,070 --> 00:45:33,230 He comes to kill because of exactly things like this. 436 00:45:33,230 --> 00:45:38,660 And as you say, his head is taken back to Rome after it's chopped off for writing too many cruel speeches against Marc Anthony. 437 00:45:38,660 --> 00:45:45,290 And one gruesome detail of his death is that his head was brought to Marc Anthony, his wife, who'd be assailed in these speeches, 438 00:45:45,290 --> 00:45:50,420 and that she took her wig pins out and stabbed his tongue for delivering these speeches against it. 439 00:45:50,420 --> 00:45:56,420 So it's exactly things like what else has been reading out of that book? Make Friends, I'll quote. 440 00:45:56,420 --> 00:46:03,980 Thank you, author. It's been a fascinating forty five minutes. We could spend a whole day talking about other aspects of Cicero's life and his work. 441 00:46:03,980 --> 00:46:11,207 That's where we've had time for next week. We'll be talking about mediaeval troubadours plenty.