1 00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:16,920 Welcome, everybody, to our Gregorian Chant workshop for the Feast of Candlemas. 2 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,530 Thank you so much for being here. My name is Andrew Dunning, 3 00:00:20,530 --> 00:00:24,230 I'm the R.W. Hunt Curator of Medieval Manuscripts at the Bodleian Library. 4 00:00:24,230 --> 00:00:31,560 Now we postponed the event from our original date of the 2nd of February. 5 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,030 So today is Shrove Tuesday, otherwise known as Pancake Tuesday, 6 00:00:36,030 --> 00:00:42,330 so I hope that you have some good food to look forward to at the end of all this, as well as some singing. 7 00:00:42,330 --> 00:00:47,230 Now we have a few practical things to mention before we get started. 8 00:00:47,230 --> 00:00:53,970 You'll notice that this is a Zoom webinar, and your video and audio are turned off. 9 00:00:53,970 --> 00:00:59,580 Sadly Zoom doesn't let us sing in synch over the internet and I won't be able to see or hear you during the event. 10 00:00:59,580 --> 00:01:04,560 So you can sing, as loudly as you like, without worrying. 11 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,270 This also means that although we're recording this event, you won't appear in the video. 12 00:01:09,270 --> 00:01:14,730 We'll share a link about the film of the workshop about a week after this workshop. 13 00:01:14,730 --> 00:01:22,470 We'd love to hear from you. You can ask a question about how to work Zoom, or about medieval music, just type it into the chat function during the event. 14 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:31,760 You might want to check right now that you can find the Q&A. 15 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:39,030 You can also vote for questions you are interested in, and comment on the questions that are actually there. 16 00:01:39,030 --> 00:01:48,750 Now, depending on how many questions we actually have, we'll answer some by text, and I'll pop up to be our spokesperson and reply to other questions live as well. 17 00:01:48,750 --> 00:02:00,330 Unfortunately, Oxford is currently in lockdown, and so we've had to suddenly adjust our plans. 18 00:02:00,330 --> 00:02:09,130 We can't get into the Bodleian library, we canŐt get into all sorts of other common spaces that we can normally access. 19 00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:13,860 So alas you won't be able to see the real manuscript live. 20 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:17,580 also we won't be able to show you the usual medieval crypt. 21 00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:24,810 But nonetheless, we hope that you'll still be able to immerse yourselves in this really neat medieval Latin music, 22 00:02:24,810 --> 00:02:30,600 despite the fact that we're all stuck at home. Now we really value your feedback, 23 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,400 so do fill in the short questionnaire that we have for you after the workshop. 24 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,210 The link is in your booking email, and we'll also share it again at the end. 25 00:02:39,210 --> 00:02:47,520 This is really helpful to us, because it helps us to continue to offer and improve or create events like this for everybody. 26 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:53,220 So once again, welcome! The plan for today is to hear the short chants that we'll be learning together led by our singers. 27 00:02:53,220 --> 00:02:59,540 This isn't a religious service, I should note, but of course, we're now two weeks ahead of Candlemas, 28 00:02:59,540 --> 00:03:05,790 I might be, you know, sort of, late Julian calendar in the 23rd century, 29 00:03:05,790 --> 00:03:13,080 but it's traditional at this feast to bless candles. So if you if you have one handy, feel free to pull it up. 30 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,850 We'll have a quick introduction to Candlemas, and the manuscript where these pieces are held. 31 00:03:17,850 --> 00:03:26,280 Thanks, by the way, to the Polonsky Digitisation Project. We can now view the entire manuscript online through our digital Bodleian website. 32 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,550 The link, again, to this is in your email. 33 00:03:29,550 --> 00:03:35,040 Also, there will be time for a few questions about medieval music, as well as on this particular manuscript. 34 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:41,400 So do type anything into the Q&A box, and then we'll get singing and learn the two pieces together. 35 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,310 We printed a modern PDF version of the Latin texts and notation to help you follow along. 36 00:03:46,310 --> 00:03:51,600 And do remember that none of us can see you or hear you sing. So don't be shy! 37 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:59,530 We'll have time for a few more questions, once we have practised, and we'll finish by singing the pieces all the way through, together. 38 00:03:59,530 --> 00:04:06,840 So I will now hand over now to my colleagues, Henrike LŠhnemann, who is a professor of medieval German here at Oxford, 39 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:13,460 and Zachary Quijano, who is the college chaplain and research fellow at St. Edmund Hall, 40 00:04:13,460 --> 00:04:22,300 Nick Swarbrick, is an associate lecturer at Oxford Brookes University and our teaching leader for today's session. 41 00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:26,940 Thank you, Andrew. Would you please open the manuscript for us? 42 00:04:26,940 --> 00:04:36,390 What you see in this first opening of the manuscript, from which we are going to sing, is the product of a Ôcut and pasteŐ approach to liturgy. 43 00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:41,400 The nuns of Medingen added new chants to the handbook, 44 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:49,080 which the Provost or priest presiding over the service used to conduct the services. The red text, 45 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,460 the rubrics, give the instructions. The black text 46 00:04:53,460 --> 00:05:05,370 are the actual prayers, and the music to be sung. On the back of the newly sewn-in folio, the Feast of Candlemas starts. 47 00: If you start that as well, please, Andrew. We will start the Candlemas service, 48 00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:18,740 as it would have been in the convent church at Medingen, with Nick cantoring as the provost, 49 00:05:18,740 --> 00:05:23,860 and me answering in the way in which the clergy and the nuns would have answered. 50 00:05:23,860 --> 00:05:33,700 And I hope you will join me in that part later in the workshop, making up the full convent 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:47,150 ÔA-sperges me do min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor.Ő 52 00:05:47,150 --> 00:05:51,870 ÔA-sperges me do min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor.Ő 53 00:05:51,870 --> 00:05:56,960 ÔA-sperges me do min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor.Ő 54 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:05,500 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per no-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 55 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:12,570 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per no-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 56 00:06:12,570 --> 00:06:21,920 ÔMise-re-re me-I de-us se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-coridi-am tu-am. Lav-a-bis me et su-per ni-vem del-al-ba-bor.Ő 57 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:29,070 ÔMise-re-re me-I de-us se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-coridi-am tu-am. Lav-a-bis me et su-per ni-vem del-al-ba-bor.Ő 58 00:06:29,070 --> 00:06:50,500 At this point, the provost would start with prayers and Zachary Giuliano is now telling us a little bit about these prayers for Candlemas. 59 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:55,850 Thank you, Henrike. A-sperges me. 60 00:06:55,850 --> 00:07:04,730 Hurts me with his love, and I shall be clean. This piece of chant provides a setting for rituals of purification, 61 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:10,340 which took place before the beginning of mass, or after prayers at the sixth hour of the day. 62 00:07:10,340 --> 00:07:16,610 Just imagine for a moment in a great church, a procession led by acolytes holding a crucifix, 63 00:07:16,610 --> 00:07:21,620 Candles, and incense with a priest (in something slightly nicer than what I am have) 64 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:25,840 sprinkling everyone with water. 65 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:32,130 Water and salt were the foundation of the medieval churchesŐ rites, as they still are in many churches today. 66 00:07:32,130 --> 00:07:42,980 In this manuscript from Medingen, water is blessed to bring about the mind's health, the body's wholeness, and the safeguarding of salvation. 67 00:07:42,980 --> 00:07:47,310 Yet this water of purification took on extra significance at Candlemas. 68 00:07:47,310 --> 00:07:55,730 This is partly because of the blessing of candles with the sanctified water, and partly because of the context at Medingen. 69 00:07:55,730 --> 00:08:02,200 So first, something about the instructions in the manuscript in the context. In this manuscript, 70 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,620 the rites around the a-sperges are associated with Candlemas, 71 00:08:05,620 --> 00:08:12,070 a feast which commemorates the coming of the Virgin Mary and Christ to the temple in Jerusalem for 72 00:08:12,070 --> 00:08:20,120 their own ritual purification, when Christ was acclaimed as a light for revelation to the Gentiles. 73 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:27,980 So if you think about the ritual context, the purification of Mary and Christ coincides with the purification of the nuns, 74 00:08:27,980 --> 00:08:38,750 both in the enacting of the ritual itself and in the physical place that the ritual occupies in the manuscript. 75 00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:43,880 And the blessing of the candles corresponds to the recognition of Christ as the light. 76 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,260 So the biblical event is recapitulated. 77 00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:54,980 Now, I suspect this association would have continued in the nunsŐ minds throughout the year as the asperges was performed at other times, 78 00:08:54,980 --> 00:09:02,500 but as the writing of it was always in that place, at Candlemas, in the provost's book. 79 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:12,360 Now secondly, something about the prayers. Prayers for the blessing of candles were already a centuries-long tradition by the late Middle Ages. 80 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:19,890 The churches' candles would have been blessed, along with those brought by parishioners from their own homes. 81 00:09:19,890 --> 00:09:25,290 This ceremony could be brief, or it could be very long. 82 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:28,590 For instance, at Salisbury Cathedral in the Middle Ages, 83 00:09:28,590 --> 00:09:36,690 they would have taken usually much more than 15 minutes to complete the blessing of candles with many prayers. And at Medingen, 84 00:09:36,690 --> 00:09:40,800 presuming most of the prayers in the manuscript were chanted, 85 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:46,950 it likely would have taken longer than at Salisbury, and incorporated several different elements like the blessing of the water, 86 00:09:46,950 --> 00:09:56,370 signing with the cross, incense processions, repeated songs such as you will hear later and participate in, and so forth. 87 00:09:56,370 --> 00:10:03,160 You need to imagine something quite elaborate. Now, what do these prayers ask for? 88 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,230 The most common and oldest prayer asks that the candles, being blessed, would 89 00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:13,120 preserve the life and health of their users, and that when they are carried about, 90 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,120 God would hear the prayers of those holding them. 91 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,700 But there are many other prayers in the manuscript; asking for the dispersal of darkness from the heart, 92 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:26,110 the flight of the devil from all places in the convent where the candles are carried, 93 00:10:26,110 --> 00:10:38,880 the clearing of one spiritual eyes, and so on. A ritual participation in the purification of Mary was meant to have many beneficial aspects. 94 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:44,400 Now, I've been asked to demonstrate what the blessing of the candles was like. 95 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,840 And you probably have some sense now that I can't do it quite as they would have done at Medingen, 96 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:55,590 since I'm lacking some of the necessary equipment and space, and we don't have more than 15 minutes to complete the ritual. 97 00:10:55,590 --> 00:11:03,550 But I will do something brief. If you'd like to lift and light your own candles in your own homes, I'd encourage you to do that. 98 00:11:03,550 --> 00:11:07,860 And then you can remember something of what we've gone through in this workshop 99 00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:11,400 each time you light the candles again. 100 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:28,700 Now, I've already blessed this water, which I will use to sprinkle this candle, and I have some incense burning here as well. 101 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:33,700 Let us pray. Lord Jesus Christ, the true light who enlightens every person in this world, 102 00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:42,710 pour out thy blessing upon these candles and sanctify them by the radiance of thy grace, that as these lights burn with visible fire, 103 00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:48,590 so they might dispel the night's darkness from our hearts with an invisible flame. 104 00:11:48,590 --> 00:12:03,970 Kindled by thy Holy Spirit, the same Christ, our lord, who liveth and reigneth on Earth, and reigns with the father and the holy spirit, one God forever and ever. Amen. 105 00:12:03,970 --> 00:12:09,080 The lighting of the candles brings us to the piece we learnt last time, 106 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:15,110 ÔThe Light to Lighten The GentilesŐ, a piece that would have been sung by the nuns on their own. 107 00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:20,090 You can see the virgines cantant at the top of the column. 108 00:12:20,090 --> 00:12:24,800 Therefore, I will start as the cantrix this time, the choir mistress. 109 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:33,020 And then Nick is standing in for the other nuns. You're very welcome to sing along with them. 110 00:12:33,020 --> 00:12:43,930 And the lumen comes six times. So at the end, even those who did not come to the first workshop might have picked it up. 111 00:12:43,930 --> 00:12:52,030 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci- o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 112 00:12:52,030 --> 00:13:03,720 ÔNunc di-mit-tis servum tu-um domin-ne se-cundum verbum tu-um in pa-ce.Ő 113 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:10,150 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 114 00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:13,920 ÔQui-a-vi-de-runt o-cu-li me-I sa-lu-ta-re tu-um.Ő 115 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,710 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci- um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 116 00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:25,940 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci- um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 117 00:13:25,940 --> 00:13:41,490 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci- um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 118 00:13:41,490 --> 00:13:53,130 ÔGlori-ri a pa-tr et fi-li- o et spi-ri-tu-I sanctoŐ 119 00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:56,760 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci- um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 120 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:06,280 ÔSic-ut e-rat in princi-pi-o et nunc et semper et in se-cu-la se-cu-lo-rum.Ő 121 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:12,430 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci- um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 122 00:14:12,430 --> 00:14:19,940 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci- um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 123 00:14:19,940 --> 00:14:29,290 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci- um et glo-ri-am pleb-bis tu-e i-sra-hel.Ő 124 00:14:29,290 --> 00:14:37,510 There we did a bit of a shortcut, but we'll have the opportunity to sing it in full at the end. 125 00:14:37,510 --> 00:14:45,980 That comes from singing, not from the manuscript, but from a photocopy. 126 00:14:45,980 --> 00:14:51,050 Fantastic. Thank you, Henrike and Nick. I've got time for a few questions, 127 00:14:51,050 --> 00:15:01,920 now, if that's okay. I thought we could stop by maybe asking Henrike just to tell us a little more about who the nuns of Medingen were. 128 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,690 Thank you. Who are the Medingen nuns? Before answering the ÔwhoŐ, 129 00:15:06,690 --> 00:15:14,130 just a quick look at the map. Andrew, could you please bring that up, just to give us the whereabouts. 130 00:15:14,130 --> 00:15:22,830 Whereabout was the Medingen Abbey? It's 25 kilometres south of Lźneburg, a northern German city, which in the 15th century, 131 00:15:22,830 --> 00:15:30,420 was rich enough to support from the proceedings of its sole production, a six female religious community. 132 00:15:30,420 --> 00:15:44,550 And the remarkable thing is, these still exist today as Protestant Abbeys. The right hand map shows the 21st century network of the Lueneburg convents. 133 00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:59,700 So here you see in the red frame, the blue-marked convents Medingen is underlined, and that maps onto the small red square. 134 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:07,440 And if Andrew now goes to the next slide, here you see the present-day community, with part 135 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:13,040 of their medieval treasure, which has survived the Reformation and the secularisation, 136 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,220 the Golden Cross of the Abbey and the statue of St. Maurice, 137 00:16:17,220 --> 00:16:26,850 the Black Knight, who was the most popular patron saint for female communities in northern Germany. While the nuns held onto these treasures, 138 00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:31,600 they sold their pre-reformation manuscripts in the 18th century, 139 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:41,940 and in this next slide, you see the four of these manuscripts for Medingen that are now in the Bodleian Library. 140 00:16:41,940 --> 00:16:50,100 The one with a gold medallion in the middle is their handbook from which we are singing. 141 00:16:50,100 --> 00:17:04,380 The others are smaller prayer books. And if you move on one slide, you can then see that these prayer books are tiny, small enough to fit in my hand. 142 00:17:04,380 --> 00:17:16,030 So, actually, my hand would be bigger than this whole slide that Andrew is currently showing. 143 00:17:16,030 --> 00:17:26,260 What you see further, if Andrew goes on into the detail of the margin, is you'll see them in their white Cistercian habit 144 00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:32,620 singing a goodbye to Easter Sunday. The smiley in the middle of the setting sun. 145 00:17:32,620 --> 00:17:40,780 While they have Latin speech bubbles, the lay people on the right hand-side answer in German. O sote dach, woldestu by uns bliven. 146 00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:48,790 The text, a translation of the Latin liturgy that the nuns were singing, can be found also 147 00:17:48,790 --> 00:17:53,830 in the vernacular prayerbooks which the nuns wrote for the citizens in Lźneburg, 148 00:17:53,830 --> 00:18:04,780 especially from patrician women. So to come back to the question, who are the Medingen nuns? They are a group of religious activists, eager 149 00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:11,410 to communicate their theological and particularly liturgical knowledge to the wider community. 150 00:18:11,410 --> 00:18:20,470 Which brings us to a model for our workshop today, passing on the singing from one group to the next. 151 00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:38,130 With this, over to Nick now to teach us to sing like the Medingen convent, or the next question, what are the benefits for singing with the nuns? 152 00:18:38,130 --> 00:18:43,150 Okay, is there another question or shall we more on to-? 153 00:18:43,150 --> 00:18:47,830 The question is for you. No. All right, Rosie, what's the next question? 154 00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:54,520 Yes, just to say that we've obviously struck a chord here, (no pun intended), with Gregorian Chant Lockdown. 155 00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:02,290 So I wondered if you could just say a bit more about this sort of contemporary relevance of this very ancient form of music. 156 00:19:02,290 --> 00:19:09,160 Okay. I think there's a number of important strands here. I think I can probably only speak from a personal point of view. 157 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:17,050 For me, it's about belonging, and I like the idea of singing in lockdown, singing together apart, 158 00:19:17,050 --> 00:19:25,630 the way we are doing, because it makes us part of a wider community. It makes us part of a community from the past, 159 00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:33,280 it also connects us with a global community who still use this music, or music like it, on a daily basis, 160 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,270 but it also connects us to one another today. So that would be my first 161 00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:42,280 thought about it. There is something, however, immensely powerful about that sense of belonging 162 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:49,390 in unison singing. You can hear all the variations as people join in when they shouldn't do, just like I did, 163 00:19:49,390 --> 00:19:57,010 or you hear just that slight delay when somebody else joins in. Those things, tell you that there are individuals there, 164 00:19:57,010 --> 00:20:00,880 but actually we are joining in together on a common effort. 165 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:06,550 There's also something, as a last point, about the way that we sing psalm tones that ÔNunc demitisŐ that we heard, 166 00:20:06,550 --> 00:20:15,640 the ÔMiserereŐ that we're going to hear in a little while, these regular tones, these regular ways of representing a text, 167 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:21,940 mean, that what we have is something where the words and the music become absolutely plain. 168 00:20:21,940 --> 00:20:28,240 They become that plain-song that people talk about when they talk about Gregorian chant and those 169 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,810 things all combined together to make this really powerful experience with Gregorian chant. 170 00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:39,660 I could go on forever, but I think that's probably enough for now. Thanks, Nick. 171 00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:44,190 And then, just a, sort of, broad general question about, maybe for Andrew, 172 00:20:44,190 --> 00:20:50,460 who's prepared this lovely side by side manuscript and modern version of the music and text. 173 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:56,610 Can you just tell us a bit more about how we actually read this music, how we get from the manuscript to your version? 174 00:20:56,610 --> 00:21:02,190 KatŐs asked a question saying, just what do the different note shapes mean, the little diamonds versus the squares, 175 00:21:02,190 --> 00:21:05,330 things like that. Yes. 176 00:21:05,330 --> 00:21:16,700 It's really easy to just look at a piece of medieval music and think, oh, it's just sort of some sort of weird beady-builds on a page. 177 00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:21,860 But the thing is, that it's actually much simpler if you're used to modern music notation. 178 00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:30,470 It takes a bit to get your head around it, but it's actually much simpler than what we're used to. Whereas in, where, we're used to, 179 00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:37,410 If you're used to reading a modern music class, of course, it doesn't really have to deal with two different clefs. 180 00:21:37,410 --> 00:21:49,000 You have five lines on a stave, and if you have a treble clef, for example, you always know that the first line on the stave is going to be an E. 181 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:58,160 With your medieval scribe, you have, what we have here is instead of four line stave, and the lines don't correspond 182 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:05,060 necessarily to a particular note, because, what we have, what you see on this page, is a C clef. 183 00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:12,000 And so the line in the middle, you can see that right above the big red A is the thing 184 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:17,780 (if you imagine that, that is C) the line red in the middle of it is a C. 185 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:22,880 Now, although we're calling it a C, it doesn't actually have to be a C, because what they're actually, what 186 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,350 they actually care about is to mark where the semitone is in the scale. 187 00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:33,500 And so you could decide that depending on what the range is, 188 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:39,890 you could decide that this is going to be a completely different note. 189 00:22:39,890 --> 00:22:43,880 And then the text is what is driving the music here. 190 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:51,700 So all the different shapes are really just, really just ligatures to make it easier to write the music, because this is all, this 191 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:57,590 Is all written using a broad-edged pen of some sort. 192 00:22:57,590 --> 00:23:06,710 And so all you really have to worry about, you don't have to worry about notes having a particular value in terms of the time 193 00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:12,350 so much in medieval manuscripts for the most part, all they're showing you is the pitch. 194 00:23:12,350 --> 00:23:16,940 And that really, that can be really frustrating for us because it means that we 195 00:23:16,940 --> 00:23:20,600 can't actually fully reconstruct what a piece should have actually sounded like. 196 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,380 There's a lot that we have to figure out by our own judgement, 197 00:23:24,380 --> 00:23:28,130 but that's also what's so much fun about early music, 198 00:23:28,130 --> 00:23:33,690 because we can, there's all sorts of different ways of interpreting this. 199 00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:40,040 And I think that we'll hear this as we go on in today's workshop. 200 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:49,560 Thanks, Andrew. Just a follow up question, a bit more technical. What are the predominant modes or psalm tones in this service? 201 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,710 I'm afraid I don't know what that means, so I'm hoping you do. 202 00:23:53,710 --> 00:24:08,430 We're singing, sorry, we're going to be singing the ÔmiserereŐ to a version of psalm tone seven, 203 00:24:08,430 --> 00:24:14,160 but I would need to check that one before we do the Lumen, because it differs quite 204 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,810 radically from the Roman tones which have been given the codification that they have. 205 00:24:18,810 --> 00:24:22,350 I'll check that, and if I get a chance to sing this, I'll come back to you, 206 00:24:22,350 --> 00:24:27,900 and if not, then I will guess where it comes, 207 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:34,440 I'll make a wild guess a little bit later. But it is slightly different from the Roman ones, so it's a little hard to tell. 208 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:42,310 I'll come in on that briefly, the nuns were very proud that they had their own tradition, 209 00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:46,750 that was Cistercian and not following the dioceses. 210 00:24:46,750 --> 00:24:53,890 And for the Marian Feast, they prefer to have very rich psalm tones. 211 00:24:53,890 --> 00:25:01,460 And so for quite a lot of the Marian feast they were using the tonus peregrinus. 212 00:25:01,460 --> 00:25:06,140 And one more question about the music before we get started, maybe with the singing, 213 00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:10,400 Does the C shape moving mean that the octave shifts? 214 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:16,970 I think that was what Andrew was saying about it? 215 00:25:16,970 --> 00:25:24,680 The octave doesnŐt shift, but you'll notice on where it's got a Ôa-sperges me do-Ô, there's an extra little squiggle of a note after the dark note 216 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,620 and before the C clef, that's the guide note to tell us where we're going to next. 217 00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:34,940 A-sperges me do-mi- 218 00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:38,630 There's only a third there between that, and that's what you can see. 219 00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:44,270 Sorry, I'm pointing at the screen and you can't see that. But we can see that we drop a third. 220 00:25:44,270 --> 00:25:49,280 That enables us not to use any extra lines above the stave, 221 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:55,370 so we're not dropping an octave, but we are, we're not dropping anything other than a third, 222 00:25:55,370 --> 00:26:02,390 but the music is continuing along its own sweet way, and we are following it. 223 00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:10,240 I hope that helps. Thank you. I think we had better save some more of the questions for the end and we'll perhaps answer some in the text as well. 224 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:17,410 So would you like to move on to the main part of the singing Henrike and Nick? Okay. 225 00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:28,870 So, as you may have heard, this is a kind of antiphonal singing. The bit that is the most complicated, the ÔA-sperges me domine yso po et mundaborŐ. 226 00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:32,170 ÔYou will sprinkle me, O Lord, with hyssop and I shall be clean.Ő 227 00:26:32,170 --> 00:26:41,590 belongs to me in this case, but probably also to the provost, as I understand it, in the Medingen convent. 228 00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:50,710 So therefore, your response is ÔLavabis me et super nivem dealbator.Ő ÔYou shall wash me and I shall be whiter than snowŐ. 229 00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:57,340 So you don't have to worry about those continuing notes, although by all means do follow along and see how that goes. 230 00:26:57,340 --> 00:27:02,430 But ÔLavabis meŐ is fairly simple. 231 00:27:02,430 --> 00:27:10,930 But when we get to Ôsuper nivemŐ, we are up in the clouds, we are above being an, above even snow in our whiteness. 232 00:27:10,930 --> 00:27:16,720 This is again, for an order that dresses in white, a significant piece of music, I think. 233 singing 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:22,690 Lavabis me et in super nivem deababor. 234 00:27:22,690 --> 00:27:28,100 What I suggest we do is, Henrika, could you sing that response for us then we'll break it down into bits? 235 00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:37,440 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 236 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,850 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 237 00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:46,730 Lovely, thank you. So we're bringing in a little bit of interpretation here to 238 00:27:46,730 --> 00:27:51,490 ÔLavabis meŐ and will, we will pause a little bit to catch our breath, 239 00:27:51,490 --> 00:27:59,050 and then after ÔnivemŐ, you might need to catch another one. So we're going to use those as the bits that we're going to break it up into. 240 00:27:59,050 --> 00:28:03,790 You'll notice that the second and third notes of Ôva-Ô. ÔLa-va-Ô 241 00:28:03,790 --> 00:28:10,960 If you see notes like that, you sing the top note, followed by the second. 242 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:18,280 But when they're directly underneath each other, like in ÔbisŐ ÔLa-va-bisŐ, you always sing the bottom one first. Set, so 243 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:27,850 Ôsuper nivemŐ will go ÔLa-va-bis me et super ni-vemŐ 244 00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:37,750 We don't have to worry about those rhomboidal notes, that climarcus, that little stepladder down, that will take care of itself. 245 00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:41,920 Perhaps, in an even earlier time, there would have been more expressive music here, 246 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:47,290 but now we're singing this fairly regularly, and we're not going to worry about it too much. 247 00:28:47,290 --> 00:28:55,010 Let's just try ÔLavabis meŐ ÔLa-va-bis meŐ. Try it everybody. ÔLa-va-bis meŐ. 248 00:28:55,010 --> 00:28:59,350 Lovely. Let's try it again, and 249 00:28:59,350 --> 00:29:06,490 I'll try not to interrupt this time. ÔLa-va-bis meŐ. 250 00:29:06,490 --> 00:29:26,600 Lovely. Now the next bit goes Ôla-va-bis me et su-per ni-vemŐ. 251 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:32,700 ŐLav-ab-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor. De-al-ba-bor.Ő 252 00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:40,090 Oh And you'll see that on those two top notes there in ÔdeŐ, 253 00:29:40,090 --> 00:29:46,930 WeŐve just joined them together, as if in a modern musical notation, 254 00:29:46,930 --> 00:29:52,120 that was a slur, so Ôde-e-al-ba-borÔ. 255 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,050 And we're slowing down at the end, and that's a bit of a ralentando 256 00:29:54,050 --> 00:30:01,360 There, if we're going to be anachronistic and pretend that we're reading modern music. 257 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:08,170 So, let's try it all together, and we'll do this a couple of times, because it's a bit tricky, and then we'll move on so we could. 258 00:30:08,170 --> 00:30:15,520 So Henrike, do you want to give us the whole of ÔLavabis meŐ. 259 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:26,850 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 260 00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:31,480 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 261 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,120 Wow, lovely. Shall we try it again? I should say, we're going to try it again. And then I think, shall we try it with the ÔaspergesŐ? Okay? 262 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,270 Yes fine. Off you go, Henrike. 263 00:30:40,270 --> 00:30:46,300 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 264 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:53,180 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 265 00:30:53,180 --> 00:30:58,550 Lovely, right. I'm going to put my bit on the beginning of this, and I will try very hard to come in at the right place, 266 00:30:58,550 --> 00:31:01,700 IŐve scribbled on my own pencil version. Do not join in here 267 00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:09,260 next time. I'm going to sing the first bit, and we'll go straight into the ÔLavabisŐ at its right point. 268 00:31:09,260 --> 00:31:28,850 So you might want to follow the text, or you might want to follow the music. 269 00:31:28,850 --> 00:31:36,390 ÔA-sperges me do-min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor. La-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 270 00:31:36,390 --> 00:31:49,210 And then begins that great psalm that in many monastic communities is a daily psalm. The Psalm for, the 271 00:31:49,210 --> 00:31:53,980 prayer for forgiveness ÔMiserere mei deusŐ, which you may know from AllergiŐs ÔMiserereŐ, 272 00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:59,680 but is seen in a number of places, but here it is sung very plainly. 273 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:08,230 At this point, can we ask, Henrike, have we pitched this too high to manage that psalm tone comfortably? 274 00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:12,340 Well, I'm a different pitch to you. So for me it would be comfortable, 275 00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:22,360 but we can take it down if you'd rather have the psalm melody on a lower pitch. 276 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,280 ÔMi-se-re-re me-I de-usŐ I would say that's comfortable. Shall I therefore sing it, or will you? 277 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:34,860 ÔMi-se-re-re me-I de-us, se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-cordi-am tu-am.Ő 278 00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:43,340 ÔMi-se-re-re me-I de-us, se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-cordi-am tu-am.Ő 279 00:32:43,340 --> 00:32:48,480 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 280 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:59,620 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 281 00:32:59,620 --> 00:33:04,270 And I heard the choir master at Taize once, at the end of a piece like that go, Ah, les cieux sont ouverts 282 00:33:04,270 --> 00:33:11,080 And, actually, that's the way that these pieces of music work, 283 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,700 the phrasing has allowed that ÔdealbaborŐ to bring it right to the end, and 284 00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:21,780 a sense of closure to it. So I think that was absolutely beautiful. 285 00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:28,410 Do we want to try it again or shall we just do it all the way through with no interruptions? 286 00:33:28,410 --> 00:33:36,650 And you are welcome to take it a tone down, if you want to sing the ÔaspergesŐ. 287 00:33:36,650 --> 00:33:41,910 ÔA-sperges me do-min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor. La-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 288 00:33:41,910 --> 00:33:48,360 ÔA-sperges me do-min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor. La-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 289 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:54,150 ÔA-sperges me do-min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor. La-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 290 00:33:54,150 --> 00:34:02,400 ÔA-sperges me do-min-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor. La-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 291 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:14,420 ÔMi-se-re-re me-I de-us, se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-cordi-am tu-am.Ő 292 00:34:14,420 --> 00:34:19,400 ÔMi-se-re-re me-I de-us, se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-cordi-am tu-am.Ő 293 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,270 ÔMi-se-re-re me-I de-us, se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-cordi-am tu-am.Ő 294 00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:32,630 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 295 00:34:32,630 --> 00:34:43,900 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 296 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:50,230 Lovely. Thank you very much indeed. Have we got time to have a look, do you think, again at the ÔLumenŐ so we can sing it together? 297 00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:57,010 I think particularly since I took a shortcut, it would be good to have it fully sung. 298 00:34:57,010 --> 00:35:04,720 And so the chorus, the choir, the community have had enough goes at this, 299 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:12,880 so let's just try, if we can, singing that ÔLumen ad revelacionem gencium et gloriam plebis tuam israhelŐ all together. 300 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,330 Okay, here I go. Are you going to do it, Henrike? 301 00:35:16,330 --> 00:35:22,800 Yes, I'm a cantoring, and then you are doing the ÔLumensŐ in between. 302 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,060 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 303 00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:38,820 ÔNunc di-mit-tis servum tu-um domin-ne se-cundum verbum tu-um in pa-ce.Ő 304 00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:48,040 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 305 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:56,380 ÔQui-a-vi-de-runt o-cu-li me-I sa-lu-ta-re tu-um.Ő 306 00:35:56,380 --> 00:36:07,480 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 307 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:14,970 ÔQuod pa-ras-to ante fa-ci-em om-ni-um po-pu-lo-rum.Ő 308 00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:20,730 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 309 00:36:20,730 --> 00:36:36,400 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 310 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:42,620 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 312 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:58,600 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 313 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:08,550 ÔGlori-ri-a pa-tri et fi-li-o et spi-ri-tu-i sancto.Ő 314 00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:15,930 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 315 00:37:15,930 --> 00:37:21,150 ÔSic-ut e-rat in princi-pi-o et nunc et semper et in se-cu-la se-cu-lo-rum. Amen.Ő 316 00:37:21,150 --> 00:37:29,200 ÔLumen ad re-ve-la-ci-o-nem genci-um et glo-ri-am ple-bis tu-am i-sra-hel.Ő 317 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:35,560 318 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:43,480 319 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:54,710 320 00:37:54,710 --> 00:38:02,380 Wonderful. Thank you. 321 00:38:02,380 --> 00:38:10,750 Fantastic. Thank you both. Would you like to do some more singing in the five minutes remaining, or do you have time for a few more questions? 322 00:38:10,750 --> 00:38:20,950 I'd be happy to answer questions, but perhaps people could vote on the question-and-answer whether they want to do more singing? 323 00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:27,040 We've got one person who says singing, but we do have a-hundred-and-something, nearly 200 people. 324 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,430 Okay, we've got two votes for singing. So maybe should we do one more run through singing, 325 00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:34,490 and then we could do, we could maybe go into extra time for a few extra questions at the end? 326 00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:42,070 Yes. Let's do it like that. I- Should we return to the ÔA-spergesŐ? If we could return to the ÔA-spergesŐ 327 00:38:42,070 --> 00:38:52,640 that would be absolutely brilliant. And I've got a suggestion for those that are feeling very brave. 328 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,690 You can see we've got these square notes in front of us that Andrew has prepared, 329 00:38:56,690 --> 00:39:04,550 so you've got your ÔLavabis meŐ which you've practised. But on the left hand side, you will see the actual manuscript. 330 00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:07,490 If you really fancy, too, you will see the word ÔlavabisŐ. 331 00:39:07,490 --> 00:39:15,540 is like a dragon's tail, a black dragon's tail with a, sort of, red emphasis on it, on the third stave down. 332 00:39:15,540 --> 00:39:20,330 So you've got one with the blue, ÔAŐ for ÔAspergesŐ, you've got something that goes Ômi-neŐ, and then the next one is Ôda-borŐ 333 00:39:20,330 --> 00:39:24,680 which is the end of my Ôda-borŐ. 334 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,380 So your one goes ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-borŐ. 335 00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:38,840 If you know it well enough now, 336 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:44,660 if you're feeling brave, why don't you try following that when we sing rather than the music, 337 00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:48,760 the square-note music that you have in front. 338 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:56,980 So I will start, weŐll then have the ÔLavabis meŐ, Henrike will then be the cantrix for ÔMiserere mei deusŐ, 339 00:39:56,980 --> 00:40:06,070 and you will join in again with the ÔLavabis meŐ, and at that point we will, as the Latin texts sometimes say, 340 00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:12,900 Ňfelici teÓ, we will be at the point where we can say we come happily to an end. 341 00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:21,570 ÔA-sperges me do-mi-ne y-so-po et mun-da-bor.Ő 342 00:40:21,570 --> 00:40:28,720 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 343 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:35,180 ÔLa-va-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 344 00:40:35,180 --> 00:40:45,280 ÔMise-re-re me-I de-us se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-coridi-am tu-am.Ő 345 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:53,100 ÔMise-re-re me-I de-us se-cundum magnam mi-se-ri-coridi-am tu-am.Ő 346 00:40:53,100 --> 00:41:01,500 ÔLav-a-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 347 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:10,560 ÔLav-a-bis me et su-per ni-vem de-al-ba-bor.Ő 348 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:18,600 And all those pauses will have echoed around the church. It would be like the angels were singing with us as a community if we'd done it there. 349 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:32,470 Thank you all very much. Are there now some questions, Rosie? We seem to have lost Rosie? 350 00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:42,810 Andrew, would you have access to any of the questions? You have a number of different questions here. 351 00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:49,520 Perhaps, Henrike, would the lay people have actually understood Latin? 352 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,990 The nuns were quite eager in helping them follow along, 353 00:41:54,990 --> 00:42:12,670 so I have a little booklet that was done by the nuns for the lay-sisters in the convent who would listen daily to the service, 354 00:42:12,670 --> 00:42:18,290 and they give always the Latin start of a prayer, 355 00:42:18,290 --> 00:42:23,390 and then, following on, the German translation. 356 00:42:23,390 --> 00:42:32,290 So when they heard the priest singing ÔLumenŐ or the cantrix singing ÔLumenŐ, 357 00:42:32,290 --> 00:42:39,480 they could find that point in their own prayer book and read along with it. Ein Licht zu erleuchten die Heiden 358 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:49,530 in the low-German medieval version. 359 00:42:49,530 --> 00:42:57,380 So and I think, the 360 00:42:57,380 --> 00:43:08,450 lay people shouldn't be underestimated. So this daily use of about, and also the sermons would have been in German, and 361 00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:16,820 they would explain a lot of the concepts and like prayers like ,'Our FatherŐ and so on, 362 00:43:16,820 --> 00:43:23,350 they would know both in Latin and in German. So in a way, they had it as a crib sheet. 363 00:43:23,350 --> 00:43:31,350 This brings us to another question. So would all of nuns who were singing actually have been literate? 364 00:43:31,350 --> 00:43:38,640 I assume, they would have been singing from a book, or would some have them been singing from memory? 365 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:47,160 Could you perhaps, Andrew, call up the slide with a nun teaching a girl to read music? 366 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:55,150 It's the slide, Number 16. 367 00:43:55,150 --> 00:43:59,890 Because that gives quite a nice illustration of- 368 00:43:59,890 --> 00:44:06,740 So this is the music theory instruction, you see, 369 00:44:06,740 --> 00:44:12,790 and a little girl (they enter the convent when they were between four and seven years old), 370 00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:17,320 and she is full following with a stylus, the musical notation. 371 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,340 It's actually the same music connotation from which we've just been singing. 372 00:44:21,340 --> 00:44:32,410 And on the hand, the big hand in the page, gives you the do-ra-me-fa-so-la scale, 373 00:44:32,410 --> 00:44:38,260 how to actually get along with it. 374 00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:42,340 And on the right hand side, that would lead too much into music theory, 375 00:44:42,340 --> 00:44:47,290 but again, you have visualisations. And if you go on 376 00:44:47,290 --> 00:45:00,470 one slide further, there you have an instructional method for learning scales. 377 00:45:00,470 --> 00:45:05,780 And you have a dictum from the convent Ômegnum tedium est stare in choroŐ, 378 00:45:05,780 --> 00:45:12,570 ÔIt is very tiresome to stand in the choir,Ő. Ôlegere, cantare et non intelligereŐ, 379 00:45:12,570 --> 00:45:19,500 Ônon-intellectual to read, to sing, but not to understand.Ő 380 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:26,640 So that was an encouragement for the novices to learn quickly, Latin enough to follow it. 381 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:33,640 And there are also quite specific instructions on how to sing it, 382 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:46,390 and the main problem seems to have been dragging. So this is from a sermon by the cantrix to the novices, saying, ÔDot flit, dat dar rechte sungen vnd lessen wart,Ő 383 00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:54,570 Ôpauses et predominantes halden warden vnd dot cantrici, succentrici truweliken helpen,Ő 384 00:45:54,570 --> 00:46:02,970 Ôvnd saet nicht vnd swiget vnd latet se so nicht all singen, wo vaken schut.Ő 385 00:46:02,970 --> 00:46:14,600 So the novices have to learn to phrase their thing correctly, and not to lag behind the singer. 386 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:21,090 Yeah. Speaking of lagging behind, I just want to jump in because I'm aware that people may have places to be, 387 00:46:21,090 --> 00:46:27,240 so I wonder if we should wrap up the official event now. But we can stay on, and we've still got several more questions, 388 00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:31,970 and I think all our speakers are happy to stay for an extra 10 minutes or so. 389 00:46:31,970 --> 00:46:38,940 But I just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone for joining us today. Sorry for our slight technical issues, mostly at my end. 390 00:46:38,940 --> 00:46:47,040 But it's a real pleasure to be able to connect with friends of the Bodleian from all over the world, and share your curiosity and enthusiasm from afar. 391 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:52,120 So thank you to our speakers and thanks to our technical team behind the scenes keeping it all together. 392 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:58,310 We will send an email out to you in the next week or so with a link to the recording of the event, 393 00:46:58,310 --> 00:47:02,550 and we'll send out the Q&A as well, so that you have that for reference. 394 00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:07,680 And please, please do take a moment to fill out our quick feedback form so that we can keep 395 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,210 offering free events like this in the future and have a wonderful evening. 396 00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:19,740 I hope that before we all disappear to eat a few pancakes, we can spend an extra 10 minutes or so answering some more of your questions. 397 00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:23,370 So thank you very much. And so, without further ado, 398 00:47:23,370 --> 00:47:26,010 sorry, Nick, I interrupted you. ThatŐs okay, absolutely fine. 399 00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:32,430 I just wanted to say that there's two little bits of contemporary, or near contemporary, writing around this, 400 00:47:32,430 --> 00:47:34,260 which are quite illuminating. 401 00:47:34,260 --> 00:47:44,760 One is that, there's a book called ÔWord Hoard,Ő which Kevin Crossley Holland and Jill Paton Walsh, a book of stories about the Anglo-Saxon period 402 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,340 (let's not worry about the nomenclature for now, 403 00:47:47,340 --> 00:47:56,490 that's what they called it), in which a child-master, a new teacher, comes to a monastery and teaches, and it's Aelfric and his colloquies, 404 00:47:56,490 --> 00:48:08,580 we know that this was a text used before the Norman conquest, of teaching Latin to boys in whose job was going to be 'choir monks'. 405 00:48:08,580 --> 00:48:13,440 We can see it in action in a short-story like that, which is a very lovely little version. 406 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,160 The other is that there's a book called 'An Infinity of Little Hours,' 407 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:27,630 which is an oral, set of oral histories of the last set of novices admitted to the Carthusian monastery in Sussex at the Charterhouse in Sussex. 408 00:48:27,630 --> 00:48:36,170 And one of the people who becomes an office that is genuinely pained as a musician by the, 409 00:48:36,170 --> 00:48:41,100 the almost deliberate lack of musicality of some of his some of his brothers. 410 00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:47,900 It must have been quite a source of irritation to people. 411 00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:54,560 And with the bridge deeds, we just saw that the nun teaching the music to the little girl is dressed as a Brigidine nun, 412 00:48:54,560 --> 00:49:02,760 and it's interesting that they are told specifically that when theyŐve finished their bit of singing, they're not to slam their books shut. 413 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,750 And we know that know people donŐt ban these things, unless this is what people were doing. 414 00:49:06,750 --> 00:49:14,760 I imagine that at the worst, these became very slapdash, and that that little bit of the admonition from Ebstorf office is 415 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,710 wonderful, isn't it? It's just wonderful. Don't let them sing on their own. 416 00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:27,980 Of course, that's terrible. 'I've got a couple of Latin-related questions about the text that we can see on the page, 417 00:49:27,980 --> 00:49:32,630 I don't know if Andrew could take us back to the manuscript page. But so two questions. 418 00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:38,840 Firstly, just the Latin question, what day ÔalbaborŐ means and secondly, why in the manuscript 419 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:47,460 we've got to Ôtu-a-ni-ve, et cetera, but we've got extra Ôm'sŐ on the end when you've got your modern edition. 420 00:49:47,460 --> 00:49:58,160 Ah. So those are both interesting questions. So, ÔdealbaborŐ is a really, really appropriate word in the way it's been, 421 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:05,240 of course, this is just the word that was used originally within the translation of this psalm, 422 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:12,130 but within medieval Latin, it means, I mean, it's the most common use of it 423 00:50:12,130 --> 00:50:21,800 was Ôto whitewash somethingŐ. But then it also meant to Ôrefine somethingŐ in the sense of silver-refining, 424 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:32,330 and then, of course, it also derives from the earlier meaning of just Ôto whiten somethingŐ or Ôto make something whiteŐ. 425 00:50:32,330 --> 00:50:36,380 But then, again, in medieval Latin, which loves to twist these things around, 426 00:50:36,380 --> 00:50:43,910 it actually came specifically to mean Ôto clothe somebody in whiteŐ. 427 00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:52,100 And then, and, in fact, this came to specifically refer to Cistercian habits within medieval Latin. 428 00:50:52,100 --> 00:50:56,330 So really, this is a really neat text from that perspective. 429 00:50:56,330 --> 00:51:09,590 And just from the very basic fact. So I ÔalbaborŐ is the feminine form for ÔalbusŐ just meaning white and Ôde-Ô, meaning to detract, to make something white. 430 00:51:09,590 --> 00:51:15,510 So it's a verb that is derived from the adjective for white. 431 00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:21,550 And as for the other question about why there is more letters in our transcription than there is in the manuscripts, 432 00:51:21,550 --> 00:51:28,900 because this is all, if you've ever tried to write something 433 00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:42,460 with a pen with a standard metal nib on paper, you'll know that it takes a really long time to form these letters. 434 00:51:42,460 --> 00:51:47,470 And also, this is written on parchment, so it's really precious material. 435 00:51:47,470 --> 00:51:53,770 And so medieval Latin developed a whole series of standard abbreviations to make it quicker to write. 436 00:51:53,770 --> 00:51:58,390 So it's very common to just add a little stroke above a vowel 437 00:51:58,390 --> 00:52:01,810 in medieval Latin to show that there's a missing ÔmŐ or ÔnŐ. 438 00:52:01,810 --> 00:52:05,260 and so that's what's happening in ÔnivemŐ. 439 00:52:05,260 --> 00:52:13,090 Similarly, in the word before that, Ôsuper nivemŐ you can see there's a little stroke going straight through the centre on the ÔpŐ. 440 00:52:13,090 --> 00:52:20,690 That makes it into a ÔperŐ instead of just a ÔpŐ. We could have an entire class on that, if you want to, 441 00:52:20,690 --> 00:52:29,350 there are entire classes on that. And Edward did wonderful classes that you can actually see on the website, 442 00:52:29,350 --> 00:52:35,680 how he explained to my History Oxford Brookes students, precisely Latin abbreviations. 443 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:43,920 And you have the second pal, actually, the very first word of the ÔAsperges meŐ. 444 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:53,900 And so you'll have the through for something that means like through the ÔpŐ. 445 00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:57,980 Thank you. Two other, sort of, slightly related questions. 446 00:52:57,980 --> 00:53:04,910 Can you tell us a little bit more about the origin of plain-chant and the history of it, and then kind of related, 447 00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:08,780 how did Cistercian chant compare with chants used by other communities? 448 00:53:08,780 --> 00:53:15,770 So was there were a lot of parity across different monastic communities or did they develop their own traditions? 449 00:53:15,770 --> 00:53:19,010 And did the nuns, sort of, write their own versions? Sorry, 450 00:53:19,010 --> 00:53:23,650 that was sort of three questions. So, the history of plainchant, how typical were the Cistercians, 451 00:53:23,650 --> 00:53:30,920 and did the nuns get involved in composing their own versions? If I do the last bit, Nick, do you want to start with the first bit? 452 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:37,130 You're so kind, Henrike. It's quite a controversial subject in some ways. 453 00:53:37,130 --> 00:53:46,640 I've seen modern printed books that say, in all seriousness, that the chant was given Ôin totemŐ by the angels. 454 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:52,430 to Pope Gregory. Almost certainly, 455 00:53:52,430 --> 00:53:56,690 Maybe, it's not heretical formally for me to say it, I would cast doubt on that. 456 00:53:56,690 --> 00:54:03,980 And I suspect that what happens is that Gregory initiates a reform of the chant, 457 00:54:03,980 --> 00:54:09,950 because at the time we've got an existing body, which is in Latin and Greek, 458 00:54:09,950 --> 00:54:17,630 and there are bits coming in from other composers, in what we'd now think of as France, 459 00:54:17,630 --> 00:54:20,180 and there are influences coming all over the place, 460 00:54:20,180 --> 00:54:26,720 and Gregory decides that if we're going to have Roman chant, it should look like one particular thing. 461 00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:32,540 There is not a whole musical experiment by a group called ÔEnsemble OrganumŐ in France, 462 00:54:32,540 --> 00:54:38,260 where they have reconstructed what the music must have sounded like in the 5th century, 463 00:54:38,260 --> 00:54:45,260 and they have tried all sorts of things, including having folk Corsican folk singers singing in Greek texts and things. 464 00:54:45,260 --> 00:54:49,030 And you get a sense of it being very different from the rather high and dry way that we gave 465 00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:55,790 it you today. There were probably very simple chants, some of which may or may not, 466 00:54:55,790 --> 00:55:03,770 (this is one of the things that people debate sometimes) have been borrowed from the synagogue, or from Latin music. 467 00:55:03,770 --> 00:55:07,730 I'm not going to speculate on that, it's not my area of expertise. 468 00:55:07,730 --> 00:55:19,400 But at any rate, by the fifth century of the common era, we had a body of chant that, I think, became something more substantial and more codified under 469 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:27,770 Gregory and then under later popes, to the point where in the 10th century, 470 00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:36,140 people in further-flung parts of what had been the Roman Empire are actually hiring people to come and sing for them and teach them how to do it. 471 00:55:36,140 --> 00:55:42,530 So it becomes a uniform thing. But that leads neatly into Henrike's point that we'll skip forward a mere five hundred years 472 00:55:42,530 --> 00:55:49,400 or so, to whether people compose their own or whether it was just regional variation of the chant. 473 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:58,220 So I would say between the different orders, there was a different emphasis on liturgy, and the quite controversial question 474 00:55:58,220 --> 00:56:05,310 how ornate liturgy should be. So dependent, on the one hand of the ability, 475 00:56:05,310 --> 00:56:15,260 and as we have seen in the miniature with a nun teaching the girl who would go to school and learn Latin and music for 12 years 476 00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:33,290 at least, the Cistercians and Benedictines where highly educated and could invest in this complex music, while the Franciscans 477 00:56:33,290 --> 00:56:42,470 or Dominicans placed the emphasis on the spoken word and going out and not so much on elaborating on the liturgy. 478 00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:48,890 But there was a bit of a torn feeling with the Cistercians because St Bernard of Clairvaux 479 00:56:48,890 --> 00:56:55,340 had admonished them not to go over-ornate, not in architecture nor in singing. 480 00:56:55,340 --> 00:57:08,360 So you had to find a middle way that was beautiful and well-formed, but not making ornaments for ornamentsŐ sake. 481 00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,790 It should always be as part of the divine service. 482 00:57:12,790 --> 00:57:23,240 So I donŐt have any example of the nuns actively composing pieces, at least not in the northern German convents. 483 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:32,060 We know of nuns, like Hildegard von Bingen who wrote a new chants. But, in Medingen, 484 00:57:32,060 --> 00:57:48,220 what I can tell you is, if Andrew could go back to the second slide that we had, that show that 485 00:57:48,220 --> 00:57:56,010 the nuns actively edited existing material 486 00:57:56,010 --> 00:58:03,870 by changing the rubric, so changing the instructions on how to sing it, 487 00:58:03,870 --> 00:58:15,510 and by adding additional chants and making the existing chants more complex by adding in additional responses. 488 00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:27,220 So, an editorial function more than an authorial function. 489 00:58:27,220 --> 00:58:36,010 Thanks, Henrike. So I think we've just got three last questions, which are all kinds of questions about future reading and listening. 490 00:58:36,010 --> 00:58:41,740 So there's just a question about the two books or stories that Nick mentioned earlier, 491 00:58:41,740 --> 00:58:52,040 could we just tell, could we just repeat those titles? Kevin Crossley Holland and Jill Paton Walsh's ÔWord HoardŐ. 492 00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:57,020 Hold on one second, I might even be able to find it. Oh, very good. 493 00:58:57,020 --> 00:59:01,320 On the, on the bookshelf. Believe it or not, it's not where it should be. 494 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:07,170 Oh, no. No, it really isn't where it should be. 495 00:59:07,170 --> 00:59:12,040 It's such a good book, but I'm afraid I read it at least once a year, and it takes a story from, 496 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:22,000 it takes little vignettes all the way through from the invasion of the Jutes and the Angles right through to the Norman conquest. 497 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:30,870 But the little stories and the one of AefricŐs colloquies is perhaps the most charming, because it is about a boy beginning to learn to sing, 498 00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:39,150 beginning to learn Latin, and also really getting to grips with the fact that, certainly in the earlier part of this time, 499 00:59:39,150 --> 00:59:41,220 it was quite a brutal time. 500 00:59:41,220 --> 00:59:50,140 I did a similar chant class to this once, where I pointed out to the group that was singing with me were in the same place together, that 501 00:59:50,140 --> 00:59:57,300 the difference between me now and me in, let's say, 1400 was that in 1400 I would have had a big stick and I could have, 502 00:59:57,300 --> 01:00:01,110 you know, I could have whacked and whacked them for their mistakes. 503 01:00:01,110 --> 01:00:05,550 And we do know, it's in the rule of St Benedict that the people should be disciplined for what, 504 01:00:05,550 --> 01:00:11,520 for their errors. Whether that was always the case is a different matter, because I think these things slip and slide. 505 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:19,020 So, Kevin Crossley Holland ÔWord HoardŐ (all one word) is probably the easiest way to find that. 506 01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:23,160 He is actually an alumnus of St EdmundŐs Hall, which is also quite nice. 507 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:34,740 He learnt old English with Bruce Mitchell. Did he really? It was Bruce Mitchell's book that was the one that I used to learn old English as well. 508 01:00:34,740 --> 01:00:38,430 The other would be an ÔInfinity of little hours.Ő and that's downstairs, 509 01:00:38,430 --> 01:00:48,690 so I can't remember the author, but what she did was she collected the oral histories of the last lot of novices before the 1960Ős 510 01:00:48,690 --> 01:00:52,440 reforms the orders. 511 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:58,440 The Carthusians having claimed, of one point, 512 01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:07,470 they Ônun quam reformata, qui a deformataŐ, never reformed because they were never deformed. 513 01:01:07,470 --> 01:01:13,110 How smug! One of the things they confess on a daily basis is their spiritual pride. 514 01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:16,680 Janet says, is it Nancy McGuire? Is that the author? Could well be. 515 01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:23,160 Yes. Thank you very much indeed. Thanks, Janet. And then two last questions. 516 01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:27,690 So someone, Korina, has asked whether anyone has read Peter JefferyŐs ÔRe-invisioning 517 01:01:27,690 --> 01:01:32,400 Past Medieval Cultures: Ethnomusicology in the Study of Gregorian ChantŐ. 518 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:37,190 Quite a mouthful. Gosh, say that slowly, and I will write that down because that sounds fascinating. 519 01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:42,900 So maybe that's a recommendation for everybody. 520 01:01:42,900 --> 01:01:51,900 That's Peter JefferyŐs ÔRe-invisioning Past Medieval Cultures: Ethnomusicology in the Study of Gregorian Chant.Ő 521 01:01:51,900 --> 01:01:57,930 I don't know if any of you have read it. You can add it to your reading lists. And then Katie has a question, 522 01:01:57,930 --> 01:02:00,030 are there any recordings that you'd recommend? 523 01:02:00,030 --> 01:02:11,160 Is there any way that we can hear the pieces we've sung tonight recorded, or any other excellent Gregorian recordings you'd recommend? 524 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:18,510 Well, I mean, Henrike, is the Corpus of Cistercian chant out there for people to look? 525 01:02:18,510 --> 01:02:23,080 There is the Austrian brothers, this thing. 526 01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:34,960 Well, that is the edition that I did with a late musicologist, Ulrike Hascher-Buerger of this particular manuscript. 527 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:43,240 And we actually hope, Andrew Dunning and I have just proposed a project to look 528 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:48,460 at a textual communities, and also to incorporate more recordings of singing. 529 01:02:48,460 --> 01:02:59,210 So this is a project for the future, but so far, I don't know of a recording of these particular pieces. 530 01:02:59,210 --> 01:03:05,510 My favourite recording of monks and nuns singing is from Bec. 531 01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:17,700 So Bec Hellouin who, whose monastery in Normandy, before it's in its original foundation, gave us people like the great Saint Anselm. 532 01:03:17,700 --> 01:03:22,580 Bec did a very, very good recording, which is available in a number of different editions, 533 01:03:22,580 --> 01:03:31,190 so it's worth just looking for, for them. They do very plain singing in the French style. 534 01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:37,520 So instead of just Ôa-a-a- sperges meŐ, they are do Ôa-a-a- sprges meŐ. 535 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:41,360 There's a lot more expressiveness in it, but it's well worth listening to the purity of it, 536 01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:45,200 the acoustics are fine. I didn't mention the Ensemble Orgnum, 537 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,440 who have tried not only to reconstruct the 5th century stuff, 538 01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:58,160 but gone right up to 18th century stuff with brass bands, trying the different ways in which you could look at the chant as it's presented. 539 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:04,790 Perhaps their best ones for what we're looking at today is they did a corpus of 540 01:04:04,790 --> 01:04:10,430 Cistercian music around the Feast of Saint Bernard and the Feast of Saint Stephen, 541 01:04:10,430 --> 01:04:14,900 one of their principal founders. So the Ensemble 542 01:04:14,900 --> 01:04:25,230 Organum will also have some really interesting stuff to look at. Andrew, Henrike, have you got any other suggestions, I'm burbling on here? 543 01:04:25,230 --> 01:04:39,120 No. I think I might just add, there's a really great website called Neumz (thatŐs spelled N-E-U-M-Z) which has, they spent a year at, I think itŐs Jouques Abbey, in France. 544 01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:48,730 They recorded everything that the nuns there were singing for, 545 01:04:48,730 --> 01:04:56,910 I think it's actually a three year period. And then they, so you can go on their website and see, OK, so itŐs that's the 15th of February, 546 01:04:56,910 --> 01:05:02,580 what would they be singing today? It's a really neat recording project, 547 01:05:02,580 --> 01:05:06,820 absolutely massive amount of music that you can look up that way. 548 01:05:06,820 --> 01:05:13,530 I'd also really, I'd also really second NickŐs recording or NickŐs suggestion of Ensemble 549 01:05:13,530 --> 01:05:19,590 Organum, they're just, I think it gives you it really gives you the sense that, 550 01:05:19,590 --> 01:05:26,790 you know, Gregorian chant is isnŐt just this, you know, it's not just this, sort of, white European thing. 551 01:05:26,790 --> 01:05:31,590 It's, you know, it's something that very much comes from different cultures, 552 01:05:31,590 --> 01:05:36,780 it can exist on all sorts of different planes, 553 01:05:36,780 --> 01:05:43,110 it comes out of, you know, all sorts of weird combinations of traditions. 554 01:05:43,110 --> 01:05:49,620 I think it's just fantastic. The earliest manuscripts bear out the fact that the cantors in some cases, the 555 01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:54,250 music is a lot simpler, then the cantor is just expected to go on for a bit. 556 01:05:54,250 --> 01:05:59,250 And we've got a lot of words from Saint Augustus, for example, 557 01:05:59,250 --> 01:06:04,590 who says this is like people just la-la-ing along when they're coming in from the fields because they're happy with the harvest. 558 01:06:04,590 --> 01:06:07,170 It must have been a hugely expressive thing, 559 01:06:07,170 --> 01:06:13,680 not unlike some of the more expressive music that perhaps we hear from the Pentecostal churches in America. 560 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:20,300 There's a lot of synergies that we could explore, if we had time. 561 01:06:20,300 --> 01:06:27,170 Thank you. And one more question, that's Oxford-related apologies to our non-Oxford friends who are joining us from elsewhere, 562 01:06:27,170 --> 01:06:31,220 and David asks if there's any regular singing of plainsong in Oxford. 563 01:06:31,220 --> 01:06:36,830 I suppose some of it might be post pandemic, but do you have any recommendations for where you can hear this music? 564 01:06:36,830 --> 01:06:46,760 Actually, so St EdmundŐs Hall has kept going through the pandemic by going back to plainchant, 565 01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:55,970 because that you can do via Zoom while polyphony is impossible to do, that you can do. 566 01:06:55,970 --> 01:07:03,160 Our director of music did plain chant 567 01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:14,320 arrangement, which he called segregatus that could be done over the computer with distributed. 568 01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,980 So we were, had a couple of singers down in the crypt, 569 01:07:17,980 --> 01:07:22,780 a couple of singers in the chapel, and a couple of singers in the old dining hall, and 570 01:07:22,780 --> 01:07:31,430 would chant the Psalms, and the Magnificat, and the Nunc Dimitis every week in a different psalm tone. 571 01:07:31,430 --> 01:07:42,090 But if you email St Edmund Hall, they will give you a link to that. 572 01:07:42,090 --> 01:07:48,810 And if you want to hear on a daily basis, or at least a weekly basis, the Dominican brothers on St Giles 573 01:07:48,810 --> 01:07:55,290 livestream their masses, which generally begin with a piece of chant and maybe have enough piece during it. 574 01:07:55,290 --> 01:07:59,190 Interestingly enough, from a musical point of view, they've reinterpreted, 575 01:07:59,190 --> 01:08:05,850 And they have recomposed in the Gregorian style, for the English and Greek texts of the modern liturgy, 576 01:08:05,850 --> 01:08:14,820 which in itself is interesting to hear from a musical point of view. Also the Catholic Church on Abingdon Road, 577 01:08:14,820 --> 01:08:19,690 they have regular Latin masses and singing, 578 01:08:19,690 --> 01:08:27,360 and the wife of the Catholic priest there, Dr Alex Lloyd, is another colleague from St. EdmundŐs Hall, 579 01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:32,880 and a brilliant singer. And the acoustics are fab there. 580 01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:37,110 Maybe we can do, we can send some links round with some recommendations. 581 01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:41,790 And Katie's asking whether St BennetŐs Hall do chant regularly as well, 582 01:08:41,790 --> 01:08:47,830 and Janet mentions Christ Church as well livestream evensong. So we might have to come up with a list for people, 583 01:08:47,830 --> 01:08:52,980 If weŐve been bitten by the big. Yes. Sounds like a good resource to have together. 584 01:08:52,980 --> 01:09:04,090 Fantastic. Well, I think we had better wrap up now and head off for a glass of wine or a pancake or whatever our evening may hold. 585 01:09:04,090 --> 01:09:11,490 I was actually hoping for both, actually, Rosie. I think you can do both. So thank you so much again to everybody who's joined us, 586 01:09:11,490 --> 01:09:15,120 thank you to our speakers, and we hope to see you again for some future singing. 587 01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:22,217 Thank you. Bye all.