1 00:00:11,270 --> 00:00:15,440 Well, hello, everyone. Welcome. Fantastic to have so many people with us, 2 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:21,620 for one of our regular series, Meet the Manuscripts Events, which are a way for us to share some of our collections, 3 00:00:21,620 --> 00:00:24,920 both the well-known items, and some of the less well-known items, 4 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:31,310 and for us to highlight some of the cataloguing and digitisation projects that we've got going on at the moment. 5 00:00:31,310 --> 00:00:38,600 And today, as Rosie has explained, we'll be looking at some bindings, and manuscripts which have been digitised and 6 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,490 catalogued as part of a current project funded by the Polonsky Foundation. 7 00:00:43,490 --> 00:00:49,460 And there should be a link to the project website in the materials that we sent out in advance. 8 00:00:49,460 --> 00:00:54,200 Why are we focussing on bindings? First, because they're often neglected, 9 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,700 and I have to admit the Bodleian has been guilty of this as well. 10 00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:07,100 It's revealing that when we started to digitise manuscripts, back in the 90's, we didn't routinely include the bindings at all. 11 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:13,250 When we did start to digitise bindings, we typically only showed the boards, the front and back covers, 12 00:01:13,250 --> 00:01:19,950 we didn't show the view from the spine, or the top, or the bottom, or the sides of the manuscript. 13 00:01:19,950 --> 00:01:22,520 And in fact, manuscripts from German speaking lands, 14 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:31,720 our current projects, is the first time that we've provided all these images of a manuscript's exterior. 15 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:38,950 Now, bindings didn't used to be digitised because they weren't considered interesting, unless they were very richly decorated. 16 00:01:38,950 --> 00:01:43,540 And our second reason for looking at bindings, is to show you, and persuade you, that they are 17 00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:49,720 interesting, even when they are relatively ordinary mediaeval bindings, or even later ones. 18 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,460 Any binding always has something to tell us about a manuscript's history and its users. 19 00:01:54,460 --> 00:01:59,800 And often it has more to tell us than first meets the eye. So we're going to look in detail in this session at 20 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:08,030 three mediaeval bindings, and one later one, to get a sense of where to look for this evidence and how to interpret it. 21 00:02:08,030 --> 00:02:12,280 And finally, our third reason for looking at bindings, is that it's an area where different 22 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:17,950 kinds of expertise in the library come together in a very productive way, 23 00:02:17,950 --> 00:02:24,010 and it gives us the chance to so showcase the work of our conservation and collection care team. 24 00:02:24,010 --> 00:02:32,860 Their experience in working with old bindings not only gives them invaluable expertise in interpreting the evidence of surviving books, 25 00:02:32,860 --> 00:02:38,770 but also in how to prepare and preserve those books for future generations of readers. 26 00:02:38,770 --> 00:02:47,920 And so we're going to end the session by looking at a 9th century manuscript that was recently given a 21st century binding here in the Bodleian. 27 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:56,650 But we're going to start, as I said, with a mediaeval manuscript, which you can see on the visualiser. And perhaps, 28 00:02:56,650 --> 00:03:02,770 Andrew, we can just start if we, if we imagine that we didn't know anything about this manuscript at all, 29 00:03:02,770 --> 00:03:09,330 we, we'd just sort of taken it out of its box, and were looking at the binding, and seeing what clues the binding gave us about, 30 00:03:09,330 --> 00:03:15,760 about where the manuscript might have been. What, what would you want to draw attention to? 31 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,200 What features would you draw attention to for getting a rough sense of the days of the binding, 32 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:26,810 first of all, perhaps? The date is interesting and, well, what a lovely thing to look at, 33 00:03:26,810 --> 00:03:32,030 if only virtually at the moment. But one of the things we can see is that its, it's a brown book. 34 00:03:32,030 --> 00:03:41,030 This may seem, sort of, quite crude, but it's a brown leather covering the book here, which is telling us that it's a vegetable-tanned leather, 35 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:49,130 which is a type of leather that's really only commonly used for bookbinding from about 1450 onwards. 36 00:03:49,130 --> 00:03:57,320 So I would be thinking, immediately, that this is a late mediaeval binding or later. We've got other intriguing things, 37 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:02,750 I can see two square pieces of metal on the board, 38 00:04:02,750 --> 00:04:11,180 That, that we can see here, and with pins attached to that, bits of metal attached to the board, which are interesting, 39 00:04:11,180 --> 00:04:19,280 and a large label. So that's telling us something about how this book was was kept closed. 40 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:25,820 So these are what's known as side pins, and 41 00:04:25,820 --> 00:04:32,390 we'll come to it in a moment, I think, there should be a corresponding traces on the other board. 42 00:04:32,390 --> 00:04:41,640 The other really interesting thing is the big white paper label across the middle, which is, I'm assuming, 43 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,820 and luckily, I've got my curatorial colleague here, is telling us what's in this book, you know? 44 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:55,390 So we've got a brown book, with bits of metal stuck to it, and some kind of label telling us what's in it, which is 45 00:04:55,390 --> 00:05:00,340 indicating perhaps how the book was used. And then there's other tantalising bits, 46 00:05:00,340 --> 00:05:08,260 I can see white bits towards the spine, bumps on the spine, things at the head and tail, which we might come to in a moment. 47 00:05:08,260 --> 00:05:15,250 So, looking at that, you know, I don't know the weight of it, but if you were to touch the boards, 48 00:05:15,250 --> 00:05:24,800 I would imagine they're solid, probably wooden boards, that you can nail or attach bits of metal to. 49 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:32,900 So we're thinking it's a, it's a sort of late mediaeval binding, probably 15th century, and we've, we've got the tanning process that you mentioned, 50 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:39,750 and then also features like, sort of, raised bands on the spine perhaps, and the sort of roundness of the spine. 51 00:05:39,750 --> 00:05:45,800 Yeah. We can see just as you move that, we begin to see so on, on the spine, and at the head and the tail 52 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,510 there are these, 53 00:05:47,510 --> 00:06:00,450 what, what was originally a contrasting colour, a pinkish lacing over the end bands, you know, a method of enhancing the board attachment. 54 00:06:00,450 --> 00:06:06,170 It would have been, and this is what we often find with very old manuscripts and bindings, 55 00:06:06,170 --> 00:06:14,620 what now may look slightly scuffed and perhaps shabby, would once have been bright with contrasting colours. 56 00:06:14,620 --> 00:06:22,150 So in this case, a brown with, with pink trimming at the head and tail. 57 00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:26,200 OK, let's let's send it over, and have a look at the backboard and see if that gives 58 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,850 us any any extra clues as to what might have happened to this manuscript. 59 00:06:30,850 --> 00:06:36,310 So what would you, what would you like to draw people's attention to from this viewer? 60 00:06:36,310 --> 00:06:42,190 Well, again, we've got these two intriguing bits of metal. So, again, nailed to the boards. 61 00:06:42,190 --> 00:06:52,960 So, these are likely to be the anchor plates that would secure straps, which would then go around to the pins on the other side. 62 00:06:52,960 --> 00:07:02,200 And the other very interesting thing is just, just how, sort of, scuffed and slightly more worn this board is rather than the other one, 63 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:11,500 which is, you know, telling us something about how this book has been used and more importantly, stored. 64 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:15,730 We think of books now on, on, on bookshelves vertically, vertical storage. 65 00:07:15,730 --> 00:07:22,360 But we know in the Middle Ages that they tended to be stored flat. So this, I'm guessing, was stored on this board. 66 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:30,070 And then, the direction of the straps is telling us it's closing from right to left, which may give an indication of where it's from. 67 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:35,370 And then there's one other intriguing thing, towards the top or the head of the board, 68 00:07:35,370 --> 00:07:41,860 it looks like there's a piece of metal embedded at the top. 69 00:07:41,860 --> 00:07:44,710 Well let's, we'll open the border and have a look at that in a moment, 70 00:07:44,710 --> 00:07:52,190 but maybe you could say a little bit more about the way the book closes, which you said might give us, 71 00:07:52,190 --> 00:07:57,490 so it's closing onto the front, so the straps would come around closing onto these. 72 00:07:57,490 --> 00:08:11,070 And then we have the label on the front board, and also they sort of wear on the back, which is telling us that the book was stored, you know, flat, 73 00:08:11,070 --> 00:08:15,840 sitting on the board that we can see at the moment, with a label on the front 74 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,750 telling us what's in it. And that makes you think, you know, why do you need a book that tells us what's in it? 75 00:08:21,750 --> 00:08:26,520 I mean, it may be common, to think of it, a paperback now with the title on the front, 76 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,510 but that's not always the case. We rarely see that with early books. 77 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:37,040 But this is telling us something about how it was stored and how it, possibly, was used. 78 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:46,460 Okay, let's have a look. Let's open it up and have a look. See if we can get any more clues 79 00:08:46,460 --> 00:08:52,990 about this metal, metal fastening that you were mentioning at the top there. 80 00:08:52,990 --> 00:08:56,770 Can we say any more about what that might have been now that 81 00:08:56,770 --> 00:09:04,540 we've got the book open, do you think? Well, we can see that certainly it's left a trace on, on the leaf that's facing it. 82 00:09:04,540 --> 00:09:07,870 And that's a leaf itself, which is intriguing, with all kinds of stains on it. 83 00:09:07,870 --> 00:09:15,970 And then as you go further in. Oh, yes, that was a nice sort of rust mark. Quite a particular shaped rust mark, there. 84 00:09:15,970 --> 00:09:23,680 Yeah, that's carrying on for several pages, actually. That's always an interesting you know, what marks are left in manuscripts. 85 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:31,990 But this is indicating that there was a large, heavy, bit of iron attached to this board, which again, makes you think, what was that used for? 86 00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:37,750 It's not to close the book, so it's some, sort of, securing the book in a way. 87 00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:47,820 And, you know, from these stains, it would indicate that this is a a chained book within an institutional library. 88 00:09:47,820 --> 00:09:52,390 So we've, all we've got is this, sort of, nail and the marks left of the structure, 89 00:09:52,390 --> 00:09:58,170 but that, that's enough for us to make a sort of informed guess about what would have been there originally. 90 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:07,620 Yes. And then, if we look at that, kind of, the book that's closing from right to left and stored with the left board uppermost, 91 00:10:07,620 --> 00:10:17,280 that would indicate that it's probably from a German-speaking area, or Scandinavia, or the Netherlands, or Flanders, 92 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:24,510 because we know that books tend to closed the other way in England, France and Spain. 93 00:10:24,510 --> 00:10:30,640 Italy, is slightly odd that you can have, you can have both directions. But that, you know, broadly just, 94 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:37,750 you know, without reading anything, the date of the letter or the type of the leather, 95 00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:44,780 how the book closed, is giving us a sense of both the date and where it may have been. 96 00:10:44,780 --> 00:10:54,170 And that's, you know, ignoring this sort of fantastic evidence in front of us here, where, you know, we can see more about the wooden boards. 97 00:10:54,170 --> 00:11:04,580 Wood is a fantastic material, it's a, sort of, relatively light-weight, but sort of stiff, rigid, material. 98 00:11:04,580 --> 00:11:12,830 And then we can see that that's been used to lace, we've got these three white straps which are related to the sewing structure, 99 00:11:12,830 --> 00:11:22,270 so how the book is is put together. So, lovely. This leaf that you mentioned earlier, this sort of mirror writing on the board, 100 00:11:22,270 --> 00:11:28,110 shows us that this would originally have been, been stuck down as a paste down to the board. 101 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:32,490 Yes. And now that's, that sort of recycling is, it's very common, isn't it, 102 00:11:32,490 --> 00:11:38,400 of older manuscripts that were no longer, sort of, found useful being reused as parts of bindings. 103 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:43,690 Yes. So how's it, how's it become detached from the structure? 104 00:11:43,690 --> 00:11:53,170 Well, I mean, we find this commonly within bindings, that we have not only a careful choice of materials, but also the recycling of older materials. 105 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:59,110 So, fragments from manuscripts were recycled within the binding process, 106 00:11:59,110 --> 00:12:09,510 and of course these have become interesting to researchers. And so, increasingly in the 19th century, these tended to be lifted, soaked away, 107 00:12:09,510 --> 00:12:18,310 and this would have happened at the Bodleian library, but without, perhaps, thinking of what the role of that paste down did, 108 00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:22,580 and unfortunately, that often causes further problems to the binding. 109 00:12:22,580 --> 00:12:30,910 If you upset the careful balancing within a binding structure, there's a whole chain reaction of things, 110 00:12:30,910 --> 00:12:40,380 and then leading, sadly. sometimes to the boards becoming detached. 111 00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:44,640 So we can, we can confirm some of your detective work, 112 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:58,540 I think, Andrew, if we just have a quick look at the, the first page of this manuscript, which actually tells us where it used to belong to. 113 00:12:58,540 --> 00:13:04,010 So, if we just have a quick look 114 00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:11,510 at the bottom of this page, we can see the ex libra inscription of Eberbach Abbey, which is in the Rhineland in Germany, 115 00:13:11,510 --> 00:13:18,530 and this is telling us that it belonged to the personal library of the abbot, that we know was a chained library from other evidence. 116 00:13:18,530 --> 00:13:26,000 So that gives a nice sort of confirmation, if you like, to what you were able to deduce just by looking at the binding. 117 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,460 But of course, if we haven't had that ex libris, the evidence of the binding would have been even more important in giving us 118 00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:37,870 some idea of where this had been and what kind of use had been made of it. 119 00:13:37,870 --> 00:13:41,160 Well, that's reassuring to know. 120 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:47,000 And what a lovely example to. Yes. We might think of this as a slightly worn and scuffed now, but I mean, 121 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:54,140 such important evidence in it, and even the evidence of this, sort of, water-staining and the use, 122 00:13:54,140 --> 00:14:00,430 things that we might think of as damage are, of course, things that we want to preserve within the Bodleian. 123 00:14:00,430 --> 00:14:02,100 I think, before we take the questions on this, 124 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:15,390 we're just going to have a quick look at the chain binding where the chain survives, so we can see how that would look. 125 00:14:15,390 --> 00:14:22,370 So here we have a manuscript, as you can see, with the actual change still attached. 126 00:14:22,370 --> 00:14:28,260 You can see it some fastened to the top board in this case, interestingly, 127 00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:34,110 with the, sort of, nail and the teardrop-shape attachment, and very, sort of, , 128 00:14:34,110 --> 00:14:40,260 clearly the same, sort of, shape that we saw evidence of in the last manuscript. 129 00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:44,090 But interesting, I mean, this is, this is a manuscript that's been re-backed, 130 00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:50,850 so the spine has been replaced, and a new end-leaf would have been put in at that time to, to, probably to 131 00:14:50,850 --> 00:15:00,030 ensure that that staple hasn't caused a rust mark, and there may be other end-leaves that are now lost. 132 00:15:00,030 --> 00:15:09,300 So it's always these tantalising, but a lovely example. But again, interesting that we've got the chain on the left, or the upper, board here, 133 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:16,020 and it looks like the strap anchor plates on the left board, so closing on the right. 134 00:15:16,020 --> 00:15:20,100 So, your immediate thought would be, is this from a different bit of Europe. 135 00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:25,440 Is this perhaps Italian, or English, or Spanish, or? 136 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,760 I don't know. Could we see the other board? Can we/ Yes. 137 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:40,170 If we look at the, if we look at the back board, you can see that these would have been, I suppose, where the straps fastened to. Hmm. 138 00:15:40,170 --> 00:15:42,940 Yes, so that, again, it's telling us how this was stored, 139 00:15:42,940 --> 00:15:49,170 so it would have been stored like this, with the right or the lower board uppermost, and it always becomes difficult, 140 00:15:49,170 --> 00:15:54,580 what's the front and what's the back when you've got these different ways of storing them. Hmm. 141 00:15:54,580 --> 00:15:59,400 Yes, and this, this makes sense for me af something that I found quite odd about the manuscript when I first looks at it, 142 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:04,290 which is that it has a table of contents at the back. 143 00:16:04,290 --> 00:16:07,530 And that doesn't seem like an obvious place to have a table of contents. 144 00:16:07,530 --> 00:16:12,720 But if you think about it being stored in this way, then it makes it makes much more sense, that you would open it this way, 145 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:18,870 have a quick glance at what was inside, and then, you know, decide if you wanted to pursue it further. 146 00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:27,240 Hmm. And again, that's interesting, isn't it, that if you think of a library book, it's all this care to to show you what's there, how you might use it. 147 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:36,560 I mean, you know, something for a range of readers rather than an individual possession. 148 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,210 Hmm. So can you tell me, is it English? Is it French?. Is it? 149 00:16:40,210 --> 00:16:44,940 Well, funnily enough, this, this is also a German manuscript, probably. Ah. 150 00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:47,670 We don't exactly know precisely where it was from, 151 00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:57,390 but certainly written in Germany, and very likely from somewhere in Erfurt, one of the religious houses there. 152 00:16:57,390 --> 00:17:01,360 So, I suppose it just goes to show you that the, sort of, rules don't always, sort of, 153 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,440 Hold fast. Yes, yes, 154 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:15,360 which, again, is interesting that you need the correlation between the physical evidence and textual evidence, and that we're grasping at these, 155 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:20,380 you know, hints and traces, and it's then how we interpret them. 156 00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:24,480 But again, what a lovely example. Yeah. 157 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:29,200 So, shall we take some questions on these these first two manuscripts? Yes, please. 158 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:34,090 It's going to be quick-fire questions. So we've got lots of questions about materials. 159 00:17:34,090 --> 00:17:43,060 So quick-fire. Do we know, for the first manuscript, which animal was used to make the leather? 160 00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:47,860 Unfortunately, no. I mean, preparing for this, 161 00:17:47,860 --> 00:17:55,210 this class, I've not been able to look at it, but I- The way- I did look at it, as closely as I could on the digitise things, 162 00:17:55,210 --> 00:18:03,490 I'm guessing calfskin, because it's got quite a tight grained structure and it doesn't delaminate in the way that a sheepskin would. 163 00:18:03,490 --> 00:18:07,090 I'm guessing calfskin, but without having a chance to have a good look. 164 00:18:07,090 --> 00:18:11,920 And it's always quite dangerous to guess without looking. 165 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:19,210 I can tell you it's tanned leather, calfskin would be my educated guess, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. 166 00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:22,840 I knew it. If you wanted to really know, you'd have to get your microscope out, 167 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,820 would you, and look at the, sort of, follicle patterns on skin? Yes. 168 00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:37,360 But again, we're not quite sure what 15th century German calves look like. 169 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:46,330 Okay. Similar question. Do we know whether the, Do we have any way to know whether, the paste down is vellum, i.e. calfskin, or parchment of some other kind, 170 00:18:46,330 --> 00:18:51,010 including, possibl,y calfskin? Again, we'd have to look closely. 171 00:18:51,010 --> 00:18:52,870 It's parchment, yes, 172 00:18:52,870 --> 00:19:04,660 with parchment being the broad term that describes all of these de-haired and then tensioned skins. And, still on materials, metals. 173 00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:10,690 What were the chains typically made of? Iron? Well, yes, they would be iron, so wrought iron. 174 00:19:10,690 --> 00:19:14,830 And we don't know, well, I can't say for these, 175 00:19:14,830 --> 00:19:25,870 but what we do know is that, when the Bodleian set up its chain library, in the modern era from 1600, 176 00:19:25,870 --> 00:19:31,690 it passed on its expertise on where to buy chains to Hereford Cathedral, 177 00:19:31,690 --> 00:19:35,040 who were who were setting up a chained library shortly afterwards. 178 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,930 So yes, those would be wrought iron, probably a chain-maker somewhere in the Midlands. 179 00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:47,470 But if we look at the other manuscript, we can see these copper alloy side pins. 180 00:19:47,470 --> 00:19:50,740 And these are the two broad types of metal we see. 181 00:19:50,740 --> 00:20:01,970 We sometimes find very grand, silver-gilt furniture on, on, on books in the 16th century, say, but these would be the common thing. 182 00:20:01,970 --> 00:20:08,860 So copper alloy and a type of iron. And with the straps to close it, that we've now lost, would 183 00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:14,410 they have been predominantly leather, and then with just a little metal fixing or completely? 184 00:20:14,410 --> 00:20:21,340 They would have predominantly probably been letather. In fact, we'll probably be able to see the remains on the other board. 185 00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:27,160 And yes, there would have been a metal fitting at the end that went over the side pin. 186 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,060 These are the things that often get lost. We do have a few left. 187 00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:40,720 We've got a fantastic Romanesque binding, which has got leather straps, and just the traces of a textile covering on. 188 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:46,690 So often, it's interesting, you get these predominant colours and then, sometimes, a contrasting colour. 189 00:20:46,690 --> 00:20:55,900 So in this case, we've got the pink lacing over the end-band, but sometimes contrasting with the straps and so on. 190 00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:59,600 And I think we might have to leave a few questions for extra time, 191 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:07,090 because we've got a lot. But do we think that that paper strip that is stuck very prominently into the front was added later? 192 00:21:07,090 --> 00:21:12,690 And if so, when? Any ideas? Well, that's a good question, 193 00:21:12,690 --> 00:21:19,350 and we we have to, sort of, work it out based on the handwriting, which is quite difficult and imprecise, 194 00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:25,350 but it's probably, it's probably a late 16th century or early 17th century edition. 195 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:28,590 But there is, if I just hold the book a bit closer, 196 00:21:28,590 --> 00:21:34,320 you can probably just see at the top, there is actually an earlier mediaeval 15th century label as well, 197 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,740 just written directly onto leather at the top there, which which essentially says the same thing, 198 00:21:39,740 --> 00:21:44,210 and telling you what the book contains. 199 00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:48,830 And then, I'm just going to ask one more, and then we'll try and do some extra ones. Just in terms of the contents, 200 00:21:48,830 --> 00:21:57,940 I think on that paste down, is that Latin that we saw in the first book or, someone asked if it was old English? 201 00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:04,160 So these are all, these all Latin manuscripts. So I think everything that we're looking at today is Latin. 202 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:10,910 So the paste downs are from an 11th century liturgical text. 203 00:22:10,910 --> 00:22:19,150 Very drastic recycling. Brilliant. Thank you. And we'll hopefully have time to answer a few extra questions in extra time, but if we can move on 204 00:22:19,150 --> 00:22:31,390 that'll be fab. While we're waiting, Andrew, do you want to just mention what you've got behind you, your lovely skin. But just, I mean, 205 00:22:31,390 --> 00:22:40,690 on the talk of parchment, so there's a sheepskin that has been turned into parchment within the frame that it was tensioned on. 206 00:22:40,690 --> 00:22:48,760 and this now lives in the Conservation Department within the Bodleian, and was commissioned for an exhibition, 'Designing English', to show how 207 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,020 parchment is made, and to show the close relationship between the shape of the animal, 208 00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:59,890 in this case, the sheepskin, and the finished flat parchment. 209 00:22:59,890 --> 00:23:08,050 So, the next manuscript is, maybe, seems like a slightly left-field choice, Andrew, because it's, it's not a medieval binding, is it, 210 00:23:08,050 --> 00:23:12,490 it's a 17th century binding. Do you want to tell us why, 211 00:23:12,490 --> 00:23:16,300 explain why, we chose this manuscript? Well, we've chosen this one, 212 00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:20,800 I mean, for two reasons. One, that it's got this very prominent centrepiece, 213 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:27,250 so the gold tooling in the centre of the spine, which tells us that it was bound for Archbishop Lord, 214 00:23:27,250 --> 00:23:33,490 and a lot of the manuscripts in the current digitisation project came from his collection. 215 00:23:33,490 --> 00:23:43,550 But also, more importantly, I think, just because mediaeval bindings are actually surprisingly rare, and most mediaeval manuscripts don't 216 00:23:43,550 --> 00:23:47,150 continue to, sort of, survive in mediaeval bindings, but have been rebound. 217 00:23:47,150 --> 00:23:57,470 So we've brought this out, really just as an example to say, well, this is actually what most mediaeval manuscripts look like in the Bodleian Library, 218 00:23:57,470 --> 00:24:04,130 and to to say, well, you know, what we've learnt from the last example, can we use that on this? 219 00:24:04,130 --> 00:24:13,470 I mean, what evidence is there on its binding? And, I don't know, Matthew, if you want to say something about the age of the manuscript? 220 00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:19,370 Yes, let's. So, I suppose, to, to pick up on your your point, 221 00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:25,600 even if we we, even without looking at the manuscripts inside, this is still telling us who owned it in the 17th century, 222 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,310 and something about its history, and we, we happened to, sort of, know a lot about Lord and his donation from other sources. 223 00:24:31,310 --> 00:24:40,110 But if we didn't, this, this binding might be the only piece of evidence that would tell us that. 224 00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:47,100 I'm going to turn the manuscript around because we're going to look at the, sort of, final leaves to get 225 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:50,850 At, that's where the best evidence of the earlier binding is, 226 00:24:50,850 --> 00:24:56,490 but the manuscript itself is a, is a sermon collection written about 1000,. 227 00:24:56,490 --> 00:25:01,200 again, from one of the German religious houses, that a lot of Lordian manuscripts came from. 228 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:11,220 This is from from Wurzburg. So what we want to do is to have a look and see if there's any evidence of earlier bindings in the manuscript itself, 229 00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:19,060 if we look, sort of, past the Lordian binding. And, I think, I'm right in saying, Andrew, that it's, it's a binding that's been re-backed. 230 00:25:19,060 --> 00:25:23,720 So, it's just. Yes. It's a Lordian binding with a, sort of, 19th century, I suppose, 231 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,210 spine. Yes, and this is often the case, that we've got, 232 00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:35,020 I mean, it's, it's mind-boggling, those sort of figures, really. But if you think, the manuscript is around the year 1000, 233 00:25:35,020 --> 00:25:42,180 the binding we're looking at is from the 1630s, with a repair probably from the 19th century. 234 00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:48,360 I mean, already you're seeing that there are lots of gaps in the history of this, and that we're trying 235 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:54,330 to put a chronology together about what happened to the manuscript when, and binding evidence, 236 00:25:54,330 --> 00:25:59,290 even when it doesn't have its original binding, or an early binding, can be really important. 237 00:25:59,290 --> 00:26:06,660 Okay, so they look like they new end-leaves that were put in when it was repacked. Ooh. And a nice, 238 00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:10,910 very marked piece of parchment, with tannin stains on, 239 00:26:10,910 --> 00:26:19,410 so a similar thing that we saw in the last one. But, as I say, with my insider knowledge on, that looks like a very Lordian end-leaf. 240 00:26:19,410 --> 00:26:25,040 We know that he was using this quite cheap sheepskin parchment for, 241 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:35,960 yes, And it's interesting to see the difference in, in colour between the cleaner side of the parchment, and then the manuscript leads. 242 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:42,600 Yes, so just, so just because we can see this staining around the edges, doesn't necessarily mean we're looking at evidence of a mediaeval binding, 243 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,300 it could could be an early modern binding that's left those marks. 244 00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:53,430 So here we are with the manuscript itself, and this is this is the kind of thing, 245 00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:58,800 I think, that gets us historians quite excited, because we don't necessarily like our books to be, sort of, clean and pristine, 246 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:05,160 Do we? We like them showing evidence of use where marks. 247 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,780 So what sort of marks can we see here, and how would we interpret those? 248 00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:15,180 Well, I mean, how, how fascinating really to see. We've got, we can see some patches, 249 00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:23,670 so this is a leaf that's clearly been repaired, both towards the far edge on the left of our screen, and then on the right towards the spine. 250 00:27:23,670 --> 00:27:29,520 We've got all these interesting water-stains, which is telling you something about, 251 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:38,740 you know, perhaps, the, the times when the manuscript was of interest, times when it was perhaps less so, and something of its storage history. 252 00:27:38,740 --> 00:27:43,960 And then these intriguing, sort of, stains, 253 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:51,880 darker stains, rust stains. And one, one that's really jumping out at me, I can see, rust stains on a patch 254 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:58,480 towards, towards the head here in the in the top corner. So, again, rust stains are telling us that it's iron. 255 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,640 So we've, we've got something, probably a stain, coming from a nail or something. 256 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:11,080 yes, we've got a hole right through it. Possibly part of the clasp system. 257 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:19,750 So how the? So that's telling us, okay. You've got a nail, okay, a nail is likely to have been put into a wooden board. 258 00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:25,900 So it's telling us something about this is, you know. Actually, those are, those are not the only holes in the manuscript. 259 00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:29,750 And it's a little, sort of, hard to see just on the visualiser, 260 00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:35,550 but perhaps if we go in a bit closer, people will be able to see this. 261 00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:41,020 There's a quite a few smaller holes as well, here for example. Ah. Ah. So what are they telling us? 262 00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:50,740 Well, small round holes are always interesting. because that's telling us that these are exit holes from insects, and not just any old insects. 263 00:28:50,740 --> 00:28:59,400 We always say bookworms, but these are likely to be the exit holes for common furniture beetle. 264 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:06,970 It's not interested in parchment, not interested in paper, we're only seeing these because they've been attracted to wooden boards from a binding. 265 00:29:06,970 --> 00:29:12,970 So it's telling us something again about this, it must have had a wooden-boarded binding. 266 00:29:12,970 --> 00:29:17,860 She's telling us something about the, sort of, status of the manuscript, kept somewhere that 267 00:29:17,860 --> 00:29:21,610 was slightly damp at one point, to make it attractive to the furniture beetle, 268 00:29:21,610 --> 00:29:31,510 which would, you can see again that from from the water-stains, and these exit holes as the lava has sort of been chewing its way through 269 00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:37,810 and os trying to get towards the outside, and they often take wrong turns and go into the text block before emerging again. 270 00:29:37,810 --> 00:29:47,230 But again, it's, it's telling us something about that six hundred years between the manuscript being written and the Lordian binding. 271 00:29:47,230 --> 00:29:54,640 But also, I mean, it's interesting, those intriguing repairs, quite heavy-handed repairs, 272 00:29:54,640 --> 00:30:02,620 but the rust-stain on it is telling us, okay, that that's not a modern repair, but that's a repair that must be before Lord, 273 00:30:02,620 --> 00:30:08,510 so before the 17th century. So, it might look a bit scruffy, it might 274 00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:10,340 it might not be appealing, 275 00:30:10,340 --> 00:30:19,220 but that's important evidence, that's telling us about a campaign of repair, re-binding, at some earlier time in this manuscript's history. 276 00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:22,340 So these are these tantalising evidence again. 277 00:30:22,340 --> 00:30:29,810 Yes, because I was just looking at the, sort of, rough repair, you might have thought at first sight that it was an early-modern job, mightn't you 278 00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:35,870 So it's interesting to to have that extra evidence of the stains, and pushing that back a couple of hundred years, 279 00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:41,780 maybe, to a late mediaeval or, sort of, early 16th century campaign of repair and re-binding. 280 00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:46,900 Yes. Now, should we take some questions on on this manuscript, 281 00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:50,420 then, before we move on. Yes. 282 00:30:50,420 --> 00:30:59,660 We've got a question about beetle holes. How, I know you shared an, shared an article, Andrew, which I'll share in the Q&A as well, 283 00:30:59,660 --> 00:31:03,230 how would you differentiate furniture beetle holes from other insect damage 284 00:31:03,230 --> 00:31:06,890 Could you just say? Very interesting. 285 00:31:06,890 --> 00:31:13,280 There are, there are there are whole groups of people looking at them, but it's to do with the shape of the hole, 286 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:19,910 so the roundness, that's the size of the hole. There are two types of furniture beetle in Europe. 287 00:31:19,910 --> 00:31:28,160 There's one that you tend to get in northern Europe, one in southern Europe, and the sort of shape of, of how the thing's being chewed, 288 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:37,430 so, although most work within, sort of, preventive conservation is looking at stopping this kind of damage happening now, 289 00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:44,540 we're increasingly getting interested in the evidence of what this tells us about the earliest storage and, 290 00:31:44,540 --> 00:31:50,400 you know, how collections were looked after. Thank you. 291 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,710 And I've got a question saying it's interesting that this text was worthy both of repair and neglect. 292 00:31:55,710 --> 00:32:03,530 Could you just talk to that briefly? It has a lot of, seen the wars, in the corners. 293 00:32:03,530 --> 00:32:09,520 Yes, well, I mean, it's a it's a very, very old manuscript, so, I mean, Matthew will be able to say, 294 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:16,010 but I mean, you know, it shows some signs of neglect at times, but also signs of care, 295 00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:21,430 and so I presume, manuscripts as anything else, 296 00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:26,330 go in and out of importance. Yes. 297 00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:33,350 So, as you say, it is a pretty old manuscript, a sort of collection of sermons, 298 00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:38,680 and you can see, I mean, there are, sort of, other signs of late mediaeval use in it. 299 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:44,410 So there's, it's been given a late mediaeval foliation, which you can see at the top of that leaf. 300 00:32:44,410 --> 00:32:49,480 So there does seem to have been a, sort of, campaign in Wuerzburg in the, sort of, 15th or 301 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:56,830 maybe early 16th century to, to sort of catalogue and spruce up some of their books. 302 00:32:56,830 --> 00:33:03,270 But it's this maybe isn't isn't a book that would have been sort of used that much when it was, sort of, repaired, 303 00:33:03,270 --> 00:33:10,760 but obviously, it was, sort of, valued enough to give it a re-bind and to, sort of, fix the main problems with its, 304 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:17,080 sort of, parchment. Thank you. And then maybe two more questions, and then we better move on. 305 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:22,600 Can you very briefly say, are the Lordian bindings here kind of uniform in their style and quality? 306 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:29,750 Was it a, sort of, matching set or do they differ? Yes and no, I mean, broadly similar. 307 00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:38,570 But Lord gave, I think it's four tranches of, of manuscripts to the Bodleian, over a number of years. 308 00:33:38,570 --> 00:33:45,800 So they're broadly the same, but there are two different two different sizes of centrepiece, 309 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:55,170 and then within them, there are some slight differences. Interestingly, he was having a lot re-bound 310 00:33:55,170 --> 00:33:59,340 fairly quickly and reasonably cheaply, so what's lovely about them is that 311 00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:04,560 some of them preserved traces of mediaeval sewing, say, within the structure. 312 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:11,370 So actually, cheap and quick, sometimes preserves, preserves things that, that might not have. 313 00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:15,450 And it's interesting why they were re-bound if, if a lot were coming from Germany? 314 00:34:15,450 --> 00:34:24,210 Was it because it was cheaper to transport them, having taken wooden boards off, say, and then having them rebound in in London? 315 00:34:24,210 --> 00:34:29,250 I don't know. But they're, they're intriguing questions that they raise. 316 00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:35,220 And then lastly, for now. Are we able to use kind of scientific methods to find out more information? 317 00:34:35,220 --> 00:34:41,280 So our questioner says that there's examples of DNA from saliva being recovered, so 318 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,000 not very CoVid-safe, and sort of analysis of leathers. 319 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:52,080 Can you say a bit more about that? Is that destructive? What would determine, is it funding that would determine whether we would do that, 320 00:34:52,080 --> 00:35:02,430 or is it something else? Yes, increasingly, there are there are newer techniques and there's a very interesting one around protein analysis. 321 00:35:02,430 --> 00:35:10,410 The Bodleian has got a very sensible policy of not allowing destructive testing. 322 00:35:10,410 --> 00:35:20,310 So, if you have to take a sample away to test it, understandably, we don't want that to happen to our, our, our collections. 323 00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:26,790 But increasingly, with non-destructive testing, analysis methods are coming on. 324 00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:32,360 So, it's the sort of thing, yes, we're getting more information. 325 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,930 The other, the flipside of that is, just because we can do something, there has to be research question. 326 00:35:37,930 --> 00:35:44,870 So, you know, again, what is it we want to answer? We know pretty well what Lord was having things bound with. 327 00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:49,400 But yet there there are cases where it is important that we know. 328 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,180 And that's, you know, there are research questions coming out of it. 329 00:35:53,180 --> 00:36:01,940 But, I think, increasingly there'll be more of this, with more precise techniques. 330 00:36:01,940 --> 00:36:05,550 It's, it's more of a growth area, I think, in the study of parchments, 331 00:36:05,550 --> 00:36:13,670 isn't it, Andrew, where people researchers are trying to work out, you know what, not just what sort of species of animal was used to make the parchment, but 332 00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:17,250 what sort of other characteristics that the flocks might have had? 333 00:36:17,250 --> 00:36:22,640 Yes. It's, it's become, it's become quite an important kind of archaeological evidence, if you like, 334 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:29,900 because it preserves, you know, the animals of a thousand years ago or more, in book form. 335 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:34,870 So there's a lot that researchers can potentially do with that. Yes. 336 00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:41,900 But again, interesting, Interesting, exciting stuff, but it's, it's moving on in leaps and bounds. Brilliant. 337 00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:48,730 I think we had better save some questions for the end, and move on to our new little, little tiny manuscript here. 338 00:36:48,730 --> 00:36:51,520 Yes. So this is, this is obviously something very different, Andrew, isn't it? 339 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:59,020 It's not necessarily the sort of binding in wooden boards that people might associate with a mediaeval binding, 340 00:36:59,020 --> 00:37:02,570 so, so what do we have here? Well, it's lovely to see it. 341 00:37:02,570 --> 00:37:09,010 next to your hands there, and also to see that slight, if you can pick it up again, 342 00:37:09,010 --> 00:37:12,280 so towards the middle, you can see those, those sort of stains on it, as well. 343 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:18,460 So this is something- Oh, yes. That originally would have been quite a bright white colour, 344 00:37:18,460 --> 00:37:22,210 so a different type of leather. This is something that we call tawed leather. 345 00:37:22,210 --> 00:37:32,100 So it's a mineral-tanned rather than a vegetable-tannage. But again, you know, it's lovely to see those, the marks of earlier readers, 346 00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:36,700 you know, how they've picked it up, and how you have to slightly squeeze it to open it. 347 00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:40,210 And this is, yes, there is no wooden boards here. In fact, there are no boards. 348 00:37:40,210 --> 00:37:44,920 What we have is a cover, and then different types of leather. 349 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:51,040 So as I've said, this alum tawed leather that was once white. And then on the spine, there's this brown piece, 350 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,730 what might look like wood, that's actually a thick piece of vegetable-tanmed leather. 351 00:37:54,730 --> 00:38:00,760 And then on top of that, we've got these bands of white alum tawed again, and then these sewing structures. 352 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,880 So this is what's known as a chain-stitch structure, 353 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:14,080 so it's where the individual choirs of folded paper in this case, are sewn with a continuous thread through the cover, through these back plates, 354 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:22,060 so the whole cover, sewing structure, and the leaves all work together. 355 00:38:22,060 --> 00:38:25,480 Oh right. And that's very different, isn't it, to a wooden binding, where you 356 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,830 this sort of sewing of the choirs would be a separate process from the attachment of the boards. 357 00:38:29,830 --> 00:38:33,610 Yes. Yes. And, and again, though, we've got a label, 358 00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:39,100 this is a much later label on it. We don't have this, sort of, library label on the front of it. 359 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:45,910 The size of it, and the binding, you know, immediately makes me think this is a, this is a different type of thing. 360 00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:56,620 So actually a very rare thing, there's about 140 of these types of mediaeval limp structures known. 361 00:38:56,620 --> 00:39:00,640 And again, yes, a paper manuscript inside. But that's lovely as well, 362 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,140 we can see writing on it, it's another layer within the cover, 363 00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:11,420 but writing on it, which disappears under the spine. 364 00:39:11,420 --> 00:39:17,150 Yes. So we've got some more recycling going on here, haven't? But in this case- What looks like a charter. 365 00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:22,010 Yes, but in this case, it disappears through the spine, under the spine, and then re-emerges on the other side. 366 00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:28,790 So we've got the whole thing, is, these layers of parchment, 367 00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:34,160 alum tawed skin, to make this binding, and yet again, recycled material. 368 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,020 And, you know, it's interesting that this is a charter only written on one side, 369 00:39:39,020 --> 00:39:44,620 but the binder hasn't made any attempt to turn it so we get the blank side. 370 00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:48,800 The approaches towards recycled material are perhaps different to ours. 371 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,330 I mean, we, I mean, they clearly didn't think that this was a problem. No. 372 00:39:53,330 --> 00:39:57,230 But a lovely a, lovely, sort of, something made for the hand. 373 00:39:57,230 --> 00:40:02,350 I mean, I would immediately think this is a personal binding, you know, something designed- 374 00:40:02,350 --> 00:40:08,830 This clasp looks quite unusual, as well. Yes. So what we have there is a loop, well we say it looks unusual, 375 00:40:08,830 --> 00:40:12,560 I'm sure it's not usual to at least half our audience, 376 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:20,420 I mean, it's a loop, an eye, metal fixing, the sort of thing that you might find as a dress fixing now, 377 00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:31,520 And that's indeed the case in the Middle Ages, as well. So far, this is the only use of this type of fixing that's been recorded in the literature. 378 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,120 We tend to find different kind of fastenings for for mediaeval books. 379 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:45,230 But it's, again, it's, this is something that's only found so far on this book or on mediaeval dress things. 380 00:40:45,230 --> 00:40:52,980 So, again, it's telling us something about, even though this was clearly a professionally produced book, you know, it's beautifully done, 381 00:40:52,980 --> 00:40:54,590 it has a slightly different function, 382 00:40:54,590 --> 00:41:03,020 iyt's something to open easily, to be light, to be portable, something for personal study rather than a library book. 383 00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:03,320 Yes. 384 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:10,190 I think the last time we talked about it, you compared it to a sort of paperback rather than a hardback, which is one way of thinking about it, maybe. 385 00:41:10,190 --> 00:41:13,580 Yes. I mean, might be a, kind of, crass analogy, but it's yes, it's, 386 00:41:13,580 --> 00:41:18,470 the difference between the last or the first example that's clearly something for an institutional library, 387 00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:23,750 this is something for for personal use, at least initially. 388 00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:27,530 Is it worth having a look inside it? I know there are some intriguing things. 389 00:41:27,530 --> 00:41:30,230 Well, I, why don't I, I will, flick through it, perhaps, 390 00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:37,730 but maybe we need to take our questions while I do that, because we're, we're getting close to time, aren't we? 391 00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:43,080 Well, yes. So one of the questions was about the red, the rubrication, the red text. 392 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:53,030 And so we could have a look at that, and if you could say something about the use of different coloured inks. 393 00:41:53,030 --> 00:42:00,050 Did you hear me there? Yes. Sorry, my headphones have, I didn't hear that there. 394 00:42:00,050 --> 00:42:07,580 Maybe Andrew did. Yes, it was the use of red. So the rubrication, the two colours within the manuscript, 395 00:42:07,580 --> 00:42:10,460 if you could say something about that. Yes, 396 00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:18,590 well, it's a way of, it's a way of helping guide the reader, really, through what would otherwise be a, sort of, very dense text. 397 00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:24,830 So it, sort of, breaks up the text into sections. You can see there are sort of letters, 398 00:42:24,830 --> 00:42:29,450 there are headings, there are sort of chapter headings, or section headings. 399 00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:37,520 Then each section itself is broken up into other sections of sentences, or clauses, by red capitals. 400 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:44,100 Another section there. And it's, it's about the, sort of, guiding you through the hierarchy of the text, really, 401 00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:51,660 and making a little bit easier to navigate, and slightly sort of prettier as well. 402 00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:58,050 We've got a question about the chain-sewing method, is it stronger than adding the boardss separate? 403 00:42:58,050 --> 00:43:04,410 No, no. I mean, I don't think we should view them as either or, or one better than the other. 404 00:43:04,410 --> 00:43:14,650 It's different, slightly different, purposes. So, again, it's the thinking about how the manuscript is going to be used, and whether, 405 00:43:14,650 --> 00:43:22,240 you know, if you can see evidence of that, does it tell you something about the earlier history of, of, of, of the manuscript 406 00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:31,330 and it's binding? And that's often, we only get glimpses of that in, say, sort of, traces of sewing within manuscripts that have been re-bound. 407 00:43:31,330 --> 00:43:37,120 So, no, not one better than the other, just slightly different, and for different purposes. 408 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:42,130 This, this isn't just, sort of, a weak form of finding, is it? Its perfectly, sort of, strong, 409 00:43:42,130 --> 00:43:46,720 as you can see, from the fact that it's lasted. No, it's a beautifully considered, 410 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:51,310 I mean, there's, I think I counted, there's eleven different materials used within it, 411 00:43:51,310 --> 00:43:55,370 but each chosen of the right thickness and the right kind of qualities, it's no, it's, 412 00:43:55,370 --> 00:44:04,810 it's a beautifully produced thing. If we do think about strength, if we could just could we go to folios 40, 41? 413 00:44:04,810 --> 00:44:12,340 There is one interesting thing in this, well, many interesting things in this manuscript, but we have the remains of. 414 00:44:12,340 --> 00:44:17,170 yes, here we see, just in the centre. More recycled parchment manuscripts. 415 00:44:17,170 --> 00:44:24,870 But in this case, they're little folds of parchment, and the sewing is within that fold. 416 00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:27,640 And we often see this with, especially paper manuscripts, 417 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:35,320 it's as if the mediaeval binder, the new material of paper was coming in and they weren't quite sure about how it was going to survive, 418 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,660 so you tend to get these reinforcing sewing guards of parchment. 419 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:43,990 So that, yeah, there may have been some question in the binder's mind, 420 00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:53,170 but they've produced something that's held up fantastically well for, you know, five hundred years. 421 00:44:53,170 --> 00:44:58,310 Great. Well, last of all. Sorry, Rosie, you go, did you want to have another question? 422 00:44:58,310 --> 00:44:58,880 Very quickly, can you just say 423 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:06,440 what the manuscript was, and what the date of the binding is, and whether we think it's contemporary with the text itself or is it a later edition, 424 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:14,270 this limp binding? Well, the manuscript is, sort of, mid-15th century, isn't it? 425 00:45:14,270 --> 00:45:21,320 And we know that, partly from the watermarks on the paper. But what what's your feeling about the binding, Andrew? 426 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,800 The binding is almost contemporary. So it's the manuscript itself is, is more than one text. 427 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:37,040 So they were brought together as a very early stage, and there is one tantalising earlier phase that there's evidence of, which is a thread- 428 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,570 tackett, so to hold an individual choir of paper together. 429 00:45:41,570 --> 00:45:43,320 There's just a loop of thread, 430 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:52,280 that's the remains of the loop head and tail that shows, you know, before you even get a binding, how you hold individual bits of text together. 431 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:57,980 So, but no, that, the bindings more or less contemporary. 432 00:45:57,980 --> 00:46:03,420 Brilliant. We've had a question about whether medieval bookbinding techniques and tools are still relevant today, 433 00:46:03,420 --> 00:46:08,550 and I think this last manuscript. That's perfect, perfect segue, right, for our last item. 434 00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:19,100 Yes. So this, this very, this very plain and quite, sort of, imposing volume, which is it's pretty heavy, 435 00:46:19,100 --> 00:46:25,230 you won't be able to sort of see that, But it's, it's pretty stout. Andrew, what are we looking at here? 436 00:46:25,230 --> 00:46:28,230 Well, you're looking at something rather wonderful here. 437 00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:36,840 So, this is something that was fairly recently conserved and re-bound by a colleague of mine called Sabina Pugh. 438 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:44,370 So this is a beautiful example of modern re-binding of a mediaeval manuscript within the Bodleian, 439 00:46:44,370 --> 00:46:49,860 and, and essentially picking up on some of the things that we've been talking about today. 440 00:46:49,860 --> 00:46:58,980 So, very careful choice of materials, very careful choice of techniques 441 00:46:58,980 --> 00:47:08,370 around how this manuscript is used. So how can we put it into the hands of of a reader, so that it will open well, can be consulted, 442 00:47:08,370 --> 00:47:14,880 that you can see as much as you possibly can from the leaves of the manuscript, 443 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:22,680 and allowing us, in some ways, to do less to the manuscript, by way of repair. 444 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:28,740 So, as you say, as it opens, the whole thing begins to move using the finest techniques, 445 00:47:28,740 --> 00:47:32,730 a kind of mediaeval binding in this case, a, sort of, slightly earlier technique, 446 00:47:32,730 --> 00:47:39,660 say, something from the, kind of, Romanesque period, even though the manuscript is slightly older. 447 00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:47,430 And that's partly to do with, if you can see, well, you can't. But it's, we know this is a, quite a thick- 448 00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:59,670 That's a tear there as well. Quite a thick, heavy, parchment, and you can see that we've got a break running alongside this copper-green pillar of the canon table. 449 00:47:59,670 --> 00:48:05,250 So, Sabina thought long and hard about how would we repair this? 450 00:48:05,250 --> 00:48:11,660 You can't, on both sides, it's got this beautiful early 451 00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:20,060 painting, you know, we don't want to stick anything on top of it. And so, that the, that the binding itself is is constructed in such a 452 00:48:20,060 --> 00:48:25,970 way that allows the book to open beautifully without needing to repair that. 453 00:48:25,970 --> 00:48:31,730 So we're putting the effort into the binding to get the binding to do the work rather than the leavess. 454 00:48:31,730 --> 00:48:36,140 Yeah. I'm guessing the earlier binding would have been putting quite a lot of stress on that road. 455 00:48:36,140 --> 00:48:44,420 Yes. So this was another one that had been re-bound for Archbishop Lord in the 1630s, had broken down, I mean, 456 00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:51,320 it's a popular manuscript, had broken down and been repaired at least once before, and had broken down again. 457 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:57,820 So this is a heavily used manuscript, in a 17th century binding that wasn't really helping it. 458 00:48:57,820 --> 00:49:04,460 And it's always a difficult just decision, because ideally we want to conserve what we have, rather than replacing, 459 00:49:04,460 --> 00:49:10,670 but at times, there is a need to do that. So, yes, ah, this is just lovely work. 460 00:49:10,670 --> 00:49:19,370 And what we don't see, because it's, it's covered in this, what might seem like this very bright white alum tawed skin, 461 00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:24,400 but in time, that will mellow with the hands of, of readers and so on, 462 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:33,110 and what you don't see underneath it is, again, the careful choice of, it's got fairly stout oak boards. 463 00:49:33,110 --> 00:49:39,320 And again, in recent decades, we've had to really try and learn, again, mediaeval techniques. 464 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,530 We've got end-bands which are based on mediaeval structures. 465 00:49:42,530 --> 00:49:48,410 And if we look at the spine, you will see, there's, if you could just turn it round the other way, Matthew, 466 00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:51,950 yes, so we've got this, this run of a saddle stitch, so 467 00:49:51,950 --> 00:50:04,940 it's a blue, indigo-dyed, and we dye our own linen threads here, as a way of holding the spine on to the spine-covering leather, to the end-band. 468 00:50:04,940 --> 00:50:13,250 If you could just sort of, I don't know, if you could just, sort of, slightly tap the spine. It should, you won't hear this, but it's, sort of, almost like a drum. 469 00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:18,530 We've got nothing actually stuck to the parchment leaves of the manuscript here, 470 00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:25,790 but we're using mediaeval techniques in the way that we've got a non-adhesive structure 471 00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:30,140 that's, that's holding the leather towards the spine without actually sticking it on, 472 00:50:30,140 --> 00:50:34,970 which both supports the manuscript and allows it to open beautifully. 473 00:50:34,970 --> 00:50:42,260 But again, that, sort of, long difficulty of finding the right kind of material is- Good quality 474 00:50:42,260 --> 00:50:46,520 linen sewing-supports, good quality, quite heavy linen, 475 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:54,450 sewing threads that are used, and then, methods of attaching these to boards and then covering the with, 476 00:50:54,450 --> 00:50:56,570 these are some of our practise bits, 477 00:50:56,570 --> 00:51:05,860 you know, we're learning as we go along, and, and refining our techniques over the last two or three decades here at the Bodleian. 478 00:51:05,860 --> 00:51:10,840 Fantastic. I'm aware that we've run over a little bit. We've got masses of questions still to come. 479 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:19,780 So I wonder, I wonder whether we should wrap up formally and say thank you to everyone and then stay on for a bit of extra time, 480 00:51:19,780 --> 00:51:23,680 if that's all right with our speakers and see if we get through a few more questions? 481 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,580 So thank you so much, everyone, for joining us today. It's been fantastic. 482 00:51:27,580 --> 00:51:33,070 We've had over 300 participants. It's amazing to connect with friends of the Bodleian all over the world. 483 00:51:33,070 --> 00:51:38,310 Thank you very much, to Matthew Holford and Andrew Honey and our technical team behind the scenes. 484 00:51:38,310 --> 00:51:41,860 And what we will try and do is, because we won't manage to answer all of your questions, 485 00:51:41,860 --> 00:51:50,830 we will follow up with an email. Well, we'll try and answer some more of the questions by text with an email. 486 00:51:50,830 --> 00:51:53,080 So don't panic if we haven't got to your question. 487 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:59,880 And we've also recorded the session and we'll share a recording as well in that email in a week or so. 488 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:06,700 And please do fill out our feedback form, only takes five minutes, and it helps us to offer these events. And have a wonderful afternoon. 489 00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:14,500 So we'll finish with the official main event now, because I'm aware people probably have jobs and commitments to get to this afternoon. 490 00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:19,880 But we'll stay on for a few extra questions. So if you can stick around, please do. 491 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:25,030 And I'm going to go by which are most upvoted. So there's masses of questions, 492 00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:26,350 thank you, everybody, 493 00:52:26,350 --> 00:52:34,270 So if you go into the Q&A and vote for the ones that you're most interested in, we'll go via that to pick which ones we answer live 494 00:52:34,270 --> 00:52:39,130 and then we'll try and answer the rest in a follow up e-mail. 495 00:52:39,130 --> 00:52:43,300 Brilliant. So, I'm going to go to the top of our most upvoted question. 496 00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:50,320 So we're talking about the second book that we saw, and that, I think, was the chained binding that still had its chain. 497 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:57,220 Lisa asks whether if it, when it was re-bound, could the order of the boards have been switched over by the binder, 498 00:52:57,220 --> 00:53:01,270 because sometimes archival bindings get re-sewn upside down. 499 00:53:01,270 --> 00:53:05,110 Is that a possibility? That's a very interesting question. 500 00:53:05,110 --> 00:53:13,860 Yes. And it's certainly theoretically something that could have happened, but I think it didn't in this case. 501 00:53:13,860 --> 00:53:22,750 And you can, sort of, see just from looking at the the way that the final paste down has been attached, 502 00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:26,680 that it sort of opens inwards slightly, and that, that suggests that this has always 503 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:32,380 been on the back board because that arrangement wouldn't make any sense on the front board. 504 00:53:32,380 --> 00:53:40,810 Yes. I mean, sometimes boards, we do know, were reused, and sometimes reused from different bindings, sometimes turned around. 505 00:53:40,810 --> 00:53:47,050 So some of the evidence we have for Anglo-Saxon bindings, is where they were, 506 00:53:47,050 --> 00:53:53,710 the boards reused, so we have traces of lacing. I mean, with this, I mean, again, it's, I'm like everyone else, 507 00:53:53,710 --> 00:53:56,830 I'm in a different part of the building and I can't get my hands on it. 508 00:53:56,830 --> 00:54:01,790 But yes, you'd want to see what matches up by way of stains and holes and so on. 509 00:54:01,790 --> 00:54:08,380 Yeah, I think what the wormholes, as you say, at the other evidence. So I don't think we'll be able to, to sort of show it, 510 00:54:08,380 --> 00:54:16,270 but the, the holes in this current paste down do match up with the holes that you get in the final leave at the end, 511 00:54:16,270 --> 00:54:22,600 so certainly they've been in there for some time, maybe not always, in that position. 512 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:27,580 But it's, I mean, it's a really good question because, yes, you should always be slightly sceptical of, 513 00:54:27,580 --> 00:54:34,260 I mean, that's what's quite nice about binding evidence, and things like watermarks and so on, is that it's separate to text, 514 00:54:34,260 --> 00:54:40,960 so it's something that you can use, you know, against other evidence and see, say, does it does it match up? 515 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,470 Does it not? 516 00:54:43,470 --> 00:54:52,540 You know, I, I can't read these books, so it's useful that, you know, some of my evidence perhaps can then work with Matthew's and then between us, 517 00:54:52,540 --> 00:55:02,050 we'll, we'll come up with, with, with a, a clearer understanding of it as an, as an entire object. 518 00:55:02,050 --> 00:55:08,500 Thank you. And sort of linked to the question of material evidence complementing other kinds of evidence, 519 00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:18,450 how, can you say bit more about which way round the book opens and how that can tell us more about where it may or may not come from. 520 00:55:18,450 --> 00:55:27,060 Which is, it's just this, this sense of clasps and straps. This, the idea that if we think of a book in front of you, 521 00:55:27,060 --> 00:55:35,520 you've got boards on the right and you've got boards on the left, so you either have a strap attached to one of them, and closing on the other. 522 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,330 So, it's, you know, we have the right to left 523 00:55:39,330 --> 00:55:44,340 we think of as predominantly English, French, Spanish, 524 00:55:44,340 --> 00:55:50,000 and then the, sorry. It's very hard to explain. 525 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:54,140 Maybe it was easier with the book. Right to left, so the one that Matthew's picking up now, 526 00:55:54,140 --> 00:56:00,560 that's the predominant thing. So, yeah, so the strap is starting on the bottom board, if you like. 527 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:10,280 or the you might call it the bottom board, and closing on the, and the coming round and then closing here. And that way of fastening, 528 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:17,120 Andrew, you said was sort of typically German. Yes. German and Scandinavian, Dutch, low countries, areas like that. 529 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:26,180 Whereas, if you imagine that the strap, it started here and had gone round to the back, which is just what happens in the, in the other manuscript, 530 00:56:26,180 --> 00:56:31,930 you can see the, sort of, clasps there, the straps sort of going round 531 00:56:31,930 --> 00:56:39,500 to the back. Although this is actually a German manuscript, that's not a typically German way of doing it, 532 00:56:39,500 --> 00:56:48,370 I think you said, Andrew. Yes. And sometimes we find, so we find occasionally labels, and sometimes you have a label covered with a a piece of horn, 533 00:56:48,370 --> 00:56:52,180 and then that would be- So if you can turn that one, the one on the right, 534 00:56:52,180 --> 00:56:57,850 Hamilton, 55, the other way up. No. Well, just like that was nice, 535 00:56:57,850 --> 00:57:03,520 the way you had them. Oh, you're right. It's okay. We can. We can keep on side by side. 536 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:10,180 I mean, this is, this is why conservators are, sort of, moving away from front and back, upper and lower, because it's so confusing. 537 00:57:10,180 --> 00:57:21,100 So with that, we're trying to use the terms right and left now, because, I mean, these books would have been stored like this in the middle Middle Ages. 538 00:57:21,100 --> 00:57:25,240 So it's, it's hard to say what's front and back, what's up and up and down. 539 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:30,840 And your head, sort of, starts to explode. Brilliant. 540 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:35,490 And one of our very first questions, which is about the first manuscript we saw, 541 00:57:35,490 --> 00:57:40,360 was can we know a little bit more about the, kind of, patterns on the bindings? 542 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,700 So the panel-framing, and the lattice patterns on the cover, 543 00:57:44,700 --> 00:57:48,630 does that relate in any way to a window of the period? Or do we, 544 00:57:48,630 --> 00:57:55,050 do we know what inspired those patterns that were used on the first manuscript that we looked at? 545 00:57:55,050 --> 00:58:05,310 Yes. So that's a, quite a common pattern to late mediaeval into the 16th century, the way the sort of outer frame, 546 00:58:05,310 --> 00:58:10,410 and then a central rectangle with the hatch, 547 00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:14,580 well, it's sort of triangular hatching across. 548 00:58:14,580 --> 00:58:21,720 I mean, books are predominantly, certainly within Europe, are predominantly rectangular-shaped things, 549 00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,650 so how you break up a rectangle, is, is a is a problem. 550 00:58:25,650 --> 00:58:35,610 So you see it both with windows and so on. But these are particularly common binding patterns, and they come in and out of fashion, like everything else. 551 00:58:35,610 --> 00:58:39,990 So this is, you've got essentially blind-tooled lines and then, there are some just very 552 00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:46,620 small individual tools, sometimes where those lines cross over, just to enhance the pattern. 553 00:58:46,620 --> 00:58:53,510 So we see similar sort of patterns, sometimes done with different types of tools. 554 00:58:53,510 --> 00:59:00,100 When I first took on an allotment, I foolishly laid out the beds in this pattern, 555 00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:05,620 and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Amazing. 556 00:59:05,620 --> 00:59:12,690 And I think with regard to the last manuscripts, so the rebound manuscript, which I've forgotten what century it comes from, I'm sorry, 557 00:59:12,690 --> 00:59:22,840 And Elodie asks, why was a later mediaeval binding technique used on an earlier manuscript, rather than an earlier structure? 558 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:30,450 It's a very good question. So the manuscript itself is 9th century, I think, and re-bound in the 21st. 559 00:59:30,450 --> 00:59:37,110 So what we're not trying to do, and I don't think this was implied for the question, what we're not trying to do is some sort of pastiche. 560 00:59:37,110 --> 00:59:41,640 So we have a manuscript of a certain age, we want to present it as a 9th century binding. 561 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:47,010 So that's a sort of Carolingian Anglo-Saxon style of binding. 562 00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:55,260 What we have there is a some Romanesque structures, and some sort of late 20th century ideas. 563 00:59:55,260 --> 00:59:59,520 What we're trying to think about is, what we want the manuscript to do, 564 00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:07,200 so it will depend on how it's been re-bound since, and the, sort of, shape of things like the spine. 565 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:12,510 So when the glue had been cleaned off this, when Sabina had repaired the manuscript, 566 01:00:12,510 --> 01:00:24,300 it was quite a squarish block, which is similar to how we see manuscripts in the Romanesque period, which allowed a Romanesque structure, 567 01:00:24,300 --> 01:00:31,170 which allows us to do certain things that would have been perhaps slightly harder if we'd have gone for an Anglo-Saxon. 568 01:00:31,170 --> 01:00:43,360 So it's, it's judgement, really. But, yeah, I think if we have more knowledge about Anglo-Saxon bindings, we might think about that in the future, 569 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:47,670 but there are certain things we wanted to do with non-adhesive spine linings that the 570 01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:54,400 Romanesque structure helped with this, and it being quite heavy parchment and a fairly thick, 571 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:59,460 chunky, manuscript that the structure that Sabina went for works beautifully for it. 572 01:00:59,460 --> 01:01:08,860 But you'll see they're a mixture of Romanesque techniques and then some slightly later, almost Gothic techniques, in the in the end-bands. 573 01:01:08,860 --> 01:01:17,030 Sorry, I've not really answered it, but it's about how we want the binding to function. 574 01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:25,780 Thank you. I've got a couple of questions about preservation and material. So high-acidity contents of wooden boards and degradation of animal glue, 575 01:01:25,780 --> 01:01:30,420 what challenges do those pose? Both. So. 576 01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:38,550 Well, animal glue has been used from the late mediaeval and then the early modern period to line spines. 577 01:01:38,550 --> 01:01:47,040 So, it's a hot glue, put onto a parchment, and hot and wet and parchment don't go well together. 578 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:51,060 So that's something we try and avoid entirely now. So that's easy. 579 01:01:51,060 --> 01:01:57,030 Wooden boards is, is, is more tricky because we think, well, oak has tannins, 580 01:01:57,030 --> 01:02:06,420 oak is a material that you might not use for a display case now. However, we have lots of mediaeval bindings with wooden boards. 581 01:02:06,420 --> 01:02:13,170 Oak is the predominant material that was used within, say, Britain. 582 01:02:13,170 --> 01:02:18,420 We know that Duke Humphry's library, you know, we've got historic bookshelves made of oak. 583 01:02:18,420 --> 01:02:25,110 So oak has got a long history, even though we might not think of it now as a modern material, 584 01:02:25,110 --> 01:02:34,020 but the wood allows you to do things because it is relatively lightweight and yet rigid. 585 01:02:34,020 --> 01:02:40,140 If we use quarter-sawn oak, we have something that will remain flat over centuries. 586 01:02:40,140 --> 01:02:44,820 It can expand and contract whilst being flat. We use oak, 587 01:02:44,820 --> 01:02:51,450 it comes from a cabinet maker in Wales, so it's well-seasoned oak, and that we would always put in, 588 01:02:51,450 --> 01:03:03,160 in the case we have here, we've got, I think, it's two at least, modern end-leaves of parchment plus a lined broadsheet. 589 01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:07,140 No. I think we've got for four end-leaves on each end here. 590 01:03:07,140 --> 01:03:12,660 So, it's something, the reuse of oak, of wooden boards, 591 01:03:12,660 --> 01:03:19,170 we've only got about 100 years experience of it, but so far, we're not seeing problems with it, 592 01:03:19,170 --> 01:03:24,090 and there are so many advantages for using oak, 593 01:03:24,090 --> 01:03:31,800 we're continuing at the moment. But no, these are good questions. About preservation, physical and digital, 594 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:38,460 obviously, we're very grateful to the Polonsky Foundation for funding a lot of digitisation of these items, 595 01:03:38,460 --> 01:03:43,950 but we've got two questions about, firstly, whether when you re-bind manuscripts, do you keep the old binding? 596 01:03:43,950 --> 01:03:48,700 And if so, where, as part of the history of the book? And secondly, digitally, 597 01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:53,640 are these specific observations on the material aspects of the bindings recorded in the 598 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:58,230 digitisation process as well as just being recorded because you're photographing them, 599 01:03:58,230 --> 01:04:03,960 and included in the kind of data that's then made available to researchers digitally? 600 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:14,960 Yes. Well, let me let me start on the bindings, first. So, yes, the the old binding for this, has been retained, and is actually kept with the manuscripts. 601 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,370 So we try and keep everything together. 602 01:04:17,370 --> 01:04:25,590 The process of conservation is very important, because it gives us privileged access to areas that then become covered again when it's re-bound. 603 01:04:25,590 --> 01:04:31,920 So those observations are within our conservation reports, which are available to readers. 604 01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:38,220 The questions around some of these observations, where, where I mean, this is all fairly new to us, 605 01:04:38,220 --> 01:04:42,840 so within the cataloguing process, and producing metadata. 606 01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:47,100 Matthew and I have been talking recently about how do we get more information in about binding. 607 01:04:47,100 --> 01:04:51,720 So watch this space. Here, in answer to that, the second part of 608 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:57,840 the question, I think that there is some there's some information about the bindings 609 01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,910 is presented as part of the metadata on digital Bodleian as part of the record. 610 01:05:02,910 --> 01:05:11,520 But it probably won't be as, sort of, complete as the full catalogue records or as the conservation report that Andrew mentioned about. 611 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,940 So they will be the, sort of, digital Bodleian record 612 01:05:14,940 --> 01:05:17,370 will usually give you a rough idea about the binding, 613 01:05:17,370 --> 01:05:23,760 but it probably won't give you, sort of, all the information that you might get from more, more detailed descriptions, that are 614 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:31,830 unfortunately, not necessarily always online, but we're always very happy to to answer questions about those. 615 01:05:31,830 --> 01:05:38,130 Brilliant. And then how much would a modern rewinding with the original techniques like this cost, and how long does it take, 616 01:05:38,130 --> 01:05:45,310 and do you have any apprentices in the conservation studio learning these techniques? 617 01:05:45,310 --> 01:05:48,390 We don't have apprentices as such. 618 01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:59,880 There are a number of training courses within the UK and further afield for conservator. So, we do a lot of in-house training for our own staff, 619 01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:08,730 plus, we host student placements from, it's about three or four different conservation courses, at the moment. 620 01:06:08,730 --> 01:06:14,850 So we're, we're very, very keen to make sure that these things are shared. 621 01:06:14,850 --> 01:06:21,870 Cost is a difficult one, because they're they're all slightly different. I mean, conservation is a problem-solving thing. 622 01:06:21,870 --> 01:06:28,120 So, I mean, each manuscript has slightly different, different needs. 623 01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:34,770 So that will depend, you know, how much conservation, how much repair it requires, as well as the rebinding. 624 01:06:34,770 --> 01:06:45,050 But, yeah. Come to us through the Development Office, if you would like to support or sponsor one. 625 01:06:45,050 --> 01:06:50,920 Good tip. And then maybe just time for a couple more questions, if that's okay. 626 01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:56,800 So we've got one, which I believe was about the first book that we saw, the first manuscript that we saw, 627 01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:04,330 which is what was the, what were the raised bands on the spine made of, and, I guess, what function do they serve? 628 01:07:04,330 --> 01:07:10,270 Were they just decorative, or? I mean, we've also had questions about, more about the, how manuscripts were stored, 629 01:07:10,270 --> 01:07:17,790 laying down or standing up, and whether there was a point in time when we suddenly started stacking all our books upright, 630 01:07:17,790 --> 01:07:23,350 so that might be linked> Those are what's known as sewing-supports. 631 01:07:23,350 --> 01:07:29,830 So those, in that case there, are alum tawed leather. I've got a book model here. 632 01:07:29,830 --> 01:07:31,440 So this is one that's not being covered. 633 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:40,690 So what you have is bands of either leather or cord to which each choir is sewn, which is then laced up into the board. 634 01:07:40,690 --> 01:07:46,060 And there are different ways of lacing them. So we can see the sewing supports there, 635 01:07:46,060 --> 01:07:49,840 but this is sort of crucial to the structure, and here we see, you know, as it opens, 636 01:07:49,840 --> 01:08:02,140 this allows the book to be flexible, so that each individual group of leaves is attached with the sewing thread to the sewing supports or bands. 637 01:08:02,140 --> 01:08:07,780 So these can either be flat, or sometimes you get these, sort of, raised bumps and bands across. 638 01:08:07,780 --> 01:08:15,790 So on the left here for Sabina's, re-bound, rebound thing, we have what appears more a flat spine, 639 01:08:15,790 --> 01:08:22,240 we've got sewing supports again under there. You can't quite see them, but they are visible in the sort of light here. 640 01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:26,580 But, but the example on the left is a late Gothic, late mediaeval on the right, 641 01:08:26,580 --> 01:08:32,650 this Gothic late mediaeval, you tend to see them as these raised bands on the spine, 642 01:08:32,650 --> 01:08:36,220 and the way that it's covered the leather is then shaped around that, 643 01:08:36,220 --> 01:08:43,600 moulded around that, and then tied up with, with a cord to emphasise that. 644 01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:48,270 So it's really an aesthetic preference isn't it, of the sort of Gothic, Gothic bindings. 645 01:08:48,270 --> 01:08:52,390 I suppose this stands, that's raised up. 646 01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:58,720 Yes and no. But there's also a different, there's a slightly different lacing path, 647 01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,560 yes, it's interrelated to how they're laced into the boards, 648 01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:09,040 it's, it's, it's a different channelling technique, which allows slightly different things to happen. 649 01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:13,170 And I think it was also on this manuscript, is this the one with the cover 650 01:09:13,170 --> 01:09:18,090 that's detached? And if so, why? Why have we allowed it to be detached? 651 01:09:18,090 --> 01:09:22,620 Why haven't we fixed that, Andrew? Why, indeed? 652 01:09:22,620 --> 01:09:32,670 I mean, the Bodleian is fortunate to have, depends who counts them, something like 10,000 mediaeval manuscripts. 653 01:09:32,670 --> 01:09:35,640 Yes. So there is, what, 654 01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:47,520 what you don't see, is that this is being usually carefully boxed, and there is normally a protective sheet between that board and the manuscript. 655 01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:54,510 If we were to repair that and get the board hinging again, we would then have the question of what do we do with the metal furniture? 656 01:09:54,510 --> 01:10:00,360 How do we stop that further damaging the manuscript? So sometimes it may seem counterintuitive, 657 01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:07,140 but in this case, the manuscript is stable, which is, you know, our Holy Grail. 658 01:10:07,140 --> 01:10:15,500 In this case, it can be safely consulted. So we don't always want to repair everything. 659 01:10:15,500 --> 01:10:20,000 Yeah, and I didn't know about this, this case, but it's not always possible either, is it? 660 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:25,790 You might think it would be a sort of straightforward job to, to reattach a board to the rest of the book, 661 01:10:25,790 --> 01:10:33,680 but it's not always possible without the quite extensive intervention into what is an early historic binding that we wish, 662 01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,720 we want to avoid, if possible. 663 01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:44,360 I mean, I'm working on another manuscript, and I will be again when when the lockdown's over, which has similar problems. 664 01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:48,560 So detached boards, wooden boards. That's got- 665 01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:52,670 That was then re-covered for Henry VIII library with, with velvet. 666 01:10:52,670 --> 01:10:57,140 So there's all kinds of problems and, yes, and it becomes a balancing act. 667 01:10:57,140 --> 01:11:00,740 But sometimes, it's about risk assessment, 668 01:11:00,740 --> 01:11:07,970 what needs repairing. I mean, and actually, it's quite nice to to have, to show this publicly to say, well, 669 01:11:07,970 --> 01:11:13,170 it may look slightly scruffy, it may look like we're not caring for it, but actually we are, 670 01:11:13,170 --> 01:11:20,630 but in perhaps different ways. And the boxing and the handling of it by readers. 671 01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:29,210 Perhaps means that we don't need to to re-bind this one, or repair it, or conservative in other ways. 672 01:11:29,210 --> 01:11:33,030 And I think this was a very early question, so I think it was about this first manuscript. 673 01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:37,850 And, I think, you said it was vegetable-tanned leather on the cover. 674 01:11:37,850 --> 01:11:42,530 And Chris asks, what tanning method was used to cover leather before that, 675 01:11:42,530 --> 01:11:49,400 I think you might have mentioned that was slightly later technique. Yeah. So, well, you get, so this is vegetable tanning. 676 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:55,170 So it's things like, oak bark, and it gives it this beautiful brown colour that we think of 677 01:11:55,170 --> 01:12:04,310 as leather. So that's a really good way of turning an animals skin into a leather, and a leather that with withstand water, 678 01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:08,390 so that's ideal for things like shoes. But on the left, this bright 679 01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:16,610 white thing is an alum tawed leather. So that's using minerals ,and then things like egg yolks, and perhaps fats going into it. 680 01:12:16,610 --> 01:12:25,700 So that, again, produces a really nice leather, but one that you couldn't make shoes out of, if you try to walk around in the wet. 681 01:12:25,700 --> 01:12:36,440 So the alum tawed leathers are the ones that we tend to see for book bindings from our earliest periods up to about the mid-15th century, 682 01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:42,800 and then vegetable-tanned leathers take over. But at each time you do get some 683 01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:50,870 unusual, so there's a sort of, there's a small group of 12th century manuscripts that use vegetable-tanned letters and very early tooling. 684 01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:59,550 So, yeah. Again, I've not really answered the question, but I've, it's, it's yeah, it's more complex. 685 01:12:59,550 --> 01:13:02,740 But endlessly fascinating. 686 01:13:02,740 --> 01:13:09,250 And I might ask one more question, because I'm aware we've now gone over by half an hour and we all might need to eat some lunch. 687 01:13:09,250 --> 01:13:16,690 So, obviously, in the Bodleian, we hugely value and care for these manuscripts with all the expertise that you've discussed, Andrew, but 688 01:13:16,690 --> 01:13:23,440 Angela asks, did the advent of printing impact how far older manuscripts were valued and cared for? 689 01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:27,610 I guess, the context might be different in the English reformation and things like that. 690 01:13:27,610 --> 01:13:34,360 Could you say a bit about whether printing affected how these items were cared for? 691 01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:38,020 I'm not sure I'm entirely qualified for that. 692 01:13:38,020 --> 01:13:47,020 I mean, the Bodleian, an interesting time, if you are being reformed from sort of 1598 onwards, 693 01:13:47,020 --> 01:13:55,360 we are in our earlier years, sort of, collecting manuscripts that perhaps were no longer being used. 694 01:13:55,360 --> 01:14:04,420 So there was, I mean, one of our entire roles has been, sort of, preserving these types of manuscripts, and their bindings. 695 01:14:04,420 --> 01:14:10,960 Matthew, do you want to. Yeah, sure. I mean, so, I guess, printing content starts around 1450. 696 01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:18,520 So it's, it's around for the second half of the 15th century, more or less when this manuscript was being made, actually. 697 01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:24,280 So there's a long period where the, sort of, world of manuscript book-making and the world of print 698 01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:34,360 book-making were occupying the same sort of space, and early printed books would have very similar bindings to this sort of manuscript, in fact. 699 01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:45,430 So I think, I think, I don't think that print, sort of, necessarily led immediately, certainly, to a loss of respect for manuscripts. 700 01:14:45,430 --> 01:14:49,840 And, I mean, there are two, sort of, things where you might say iy did have an effect on binding. 701 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:53,890 One is that there was suddenly a lot more material that needed for binding. 702 01:14:53,890 --> 01:14:57,560 So, if you think about the massive, sort of, outputs of printing shops, doing, you know, 703 01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:02,680 its editions of several hundred books at a time, and that was a lot more work for binders us to do, 704 01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:13,630 and I think it's, sort of, generally felt that that led to a loss of quality in bookbinding from the, sort of, second half the 15th century onwards. 705 01:15:13,630 --> 01:15:18,390 And then maybe, maybe by the time you got to the 16th century, attitudes are changing really, 706 01:15:18,390 --> 01:15:21,880 and, you know, it's felt that the latest printed books are more up to date, 707 01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:26,080 they're more accurate, the text is better. They're certainly cheaper. 708 01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:32,680 So you, by that stage, perhaps you do start, people's, there's a sort of period, before people start caring about 709 01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:38,050 manuscripts as being important historical evidence that needs to be safe for that sense, there, 710 01:15:38,050 --> 01:15:43,640 there is certainly a period when manuscripts are, sort of, thrown away, and you see that a lot in Oxford. 711 01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:51,400 There's this enormous quantities that we only have today as, as this sort of manuscript waste on the inside of manuscripts, 712 01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:55,540 enormous quantities of fragments that were destroyed for bindings in Oxford, 713 01:15:55,540 --> 01:16:05,260 and only survive as binding waste now. So, again, I've given a, sort of, slightly rambling answer there, but that I hope that covers some of it. Brilliant. 714 01:16:05,260 --> 01:16:12,730 Well, thank you so much again, Matthew Holford and Andrew Honey, for that marathon journey through bindings. 715 01:16:12,730 --> 01:16:17,410 I think we can tell from the questions that this is the subject that really does interest people. 716 01:16:17,410 --> 01:16:24,220 And we just to reassure you, if your question hasn't been answered, we will do our best to get Andrew and Matthew to answer those, 717 01:16:24,220 --> 01:16:29,020 and we'll send you a follow up email with some responses. 718 01:16:29,020 --> 01:16:35,980 So, I just want to say again, thank you so much to joining us today, to our speakers, and to our technical team, 719 01:16:35,980 --> 01:16:43,330 and we hope that you will keep an eye out on our upcoming events around the Polonsky Digitisation Project and other things. 720 01:16:43,330 --> 01:16:49,780 There's a newsletter which you can sign up to, so that you're always kept informed about what's coming next. 721 01:16:49,780 --> 01:16:55,017 So do join us again for another event very soon. Thank you very much.