1 00:00:10,290 --> 00:00:14,310 Welcome to this webinar correcting Christmas carols. Thank you very much for being here. 2 00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:22,290 My name is Helen. I'm the education of the in libraries. Just to let you know a few practical things before we start, we are recording the event. 3 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:28,080 But as this is a Zoom webinar, your video and audio are turned off and you won't appear in the video. 4 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,440 We will share a link to the film shortly after the event. 5 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,990 Today's event features some fascinating and rare mediaeval manuscripts, and we'd love to hear what you think. 6 00:00:36,990 --> 00:00:41,940 So if you would like to ask a question, please Typekit in the Q&A window throughout the event. 7 00:00:41,940 --> 00:00:48,810 Please do check now that you can find the Q&A. You can also vote for questions you are interested in by clicking on the thumbs up. 8 00:00:48,810 --> 00:00:53,490 I will put your questions live to our experts during the session in your booking email. 9 00:00:53,490 --> 00:00:58,950 We have shared links to the manuscript so you can take a look for yourselves. This is the final event in the autumn. 10 00:00:58,950 --> 00:01:07,470 Meet the manuscript series, but we have exciting plans for 2022. So do you sign up to the Body newsletter for details of all our upcoming events? 11 00:01:07,470 --> 00:01:12,180 We really value your feedback, so please do fill out the short questionnaire after the webinar. 12 00:01:12,180 --> 00:01:19,260 The link is in your booking email. This helps us to continue to offer and improve free events like this for everyone. 13 00:01:19,260 --> 00:01:25,110 So once again welcome. The plan for today is to consider different versions of late mediaeval carols and 14 00:01:25,110 --> 00:01:30,060 what they reveal about performance and oral culture in the late mediaeval period. 15 00:01:30,060 --> 00:01:36,360 Our speaker today is Mika Mackay, doctoral student in the publication Before Print Doctoral Centre, 16 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,770 and we have Andrew Dunning Al Hunt, curator of mediaeval manuscripts. 17 00:01:40,770 --> 00:01:49,380 Andrew will be sharing the manuscripts under the visualise and so we can see with details close up as Mika explains that context and significance. 18 00:01:49,380 --> 00:01:55,170 As I said, we'll pause during the session for questions. So please at least the Q&A books throughout. 19 00:01:55,170 --> 00:02:02,730 If we don't have time to answer all your questions today, we'll collate the most popular ones and do our best to answer them in our follow up email. 20 00:02:02,730 --> 00:02:04,860 So I'll hand over now to Mika. 21 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:12,330 Hi everyone, and thank you for being here today and thank you to the Bodley and for having me as part of their public engagement series. 22 00:02:12,330 --> 00:02:21,000 I am really pleased to be talking to you all today about a topic that I'm really interested in and is the basis of all my research at Oxford, 23 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:28,050 which is mediaeval carols. So to explain my research area really and what I'll be talking about today, 24 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:35,230 I think it's quite good to use an example of what got me started off with all of this. 25 00:02:35,230 --> 00:02:44,020 And this story concerns my parents say my mother about two years ago was talking to me about her wedding and she was saying, 26 00:02:44,020 --> 00:02:52,030 We have this lovely song that played at the reception and it's one of my favourite songs and she starts singing it. 27 00:02:52,030 --> 00:02:58,930 I realise the song is vaguely familiar. And then she gets to the chorus and she says, Coco Hart. 28 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:02,540 And then I stop. I said, That's not the right words. 29 00:03:02,540 --> 00:03:10,530 And I turned to her and said the lyrics to Elton John's sacrifice are cold, cold heart, hard done by you. 30 00:03:10,530 --> 00:03:18,300 Now you can see the problem you have, having played that her wedding, that song suddenly took on an entire new interpretation for her, 31 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:24,900 basically based on the error she had made with the wording of the song itself initially. 32 00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:27,450 So I'm sorry that I ruined that song of your mother. 33 00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:36,010 I know you're watching today, but thank you for inspiring my research area because that then made me think, Well, what if we look at music? 34 00:03:36,010 --> 00:03:42,780 And what if we look at the mistakes, errors, maybe the corrections that we get in music, particularly mediaeval music? 35 00:03:42,780 --> 00:03:46,170 What can we see on the page and what mistakes can we see there? 36 00:03:46,170 --> 00:03:53,010 And what can that actually tell us about performance and morality and the oral culture of late mediaeval England? 37 00:03:53,010 --> 00:03:56,190 So, yes, thank you for inspiring my research area. 38 00:03:56,190 --> 00:04:05,730 So anyway, today what I hope to do is to introduce you all to a bit about Carole culture, about performance in the late mediaeval period, 39 00:04:05,730 --> 00:04:11,280 and also to have a look at some of the mistakes and errors scribes often made in the page. 40 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,710 And what this might reveal to us about performance or morality, what this might show us. 41 00:04:16,710 --> 00:04:22,350 I think it's important to remember that a lot of this work is quite speculative, 42 00:04:22,350 --> 00:04:27,690 although we can make suggestions as to what a mistake on the page might mean on or an error might mean. 43 00:04:27,690 --> 00:04:34,530 A correction might mean we cannot go back 500 years and sit next to the scribe and see what actually happened. 44 00:04:34,530 --> 00:04:39,330 Unfortunately, that would make my work, my work and not the scold us work and polygrapher a lot easier. 45 00:04:39,330 --> 00:04:42,990 But alas, but yes, we kind of have our best guesses. 46 00:04:42,990 --> 00:04:49,350 We can have our suggestions, we can go on what we seem to be finding and where the evidence points to. 47 00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:54,990 So today I'm going to be making some of the suggestions and hopefully sharing a little bit about what the 48 00:04:54,990 --> 00:05:01,730 mistakes and what the words in the page may indicate about the performance and morality of late England. 49 00:05:01,730 --> 00:05:07,260 So first of all, what is it, Carol? That might sound like a relatively simple question. 50 00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:10,710 Every year, millions of people tune in to carols from King's, 51 00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:17,010 and we wait to hear this sort of haunting voice of the boy singing once in Royal David's City. 52 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:20,370 And that's normally what people associate with Carol and with carols. 53 00:05:20,370 --> 00:05:25,560 But where did that all come from, and where did this idea of the carol come from? 54 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,930 We often hear some diva carols in that ceremony. 55 00:05:27,930 --> 00:05:35,460 We hear there is no rose and lay bound and just just two of them and diva cows that often come up and services. 56 00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:40,710 But yes, what? What made those carols? Why were they written down? How do we have them today? 57 00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:45,870 So Richard Layton Green was the sort of big voice in the carol 50 years ago. 58 00:05:45,870 --> 00:05:50,490 He collected together hundreds of carols or the sort of surviving carols he could 59 00:05:50,490 --> 00:05:55,230 find from your manuscripts into one huge collection called Adi English Carols. 60 00:05:55,230 --> 00:06:03,180 And it's sort of the main work and feel the such and has remained like that, and green gives this definition of the carol. 61 00:06:03,180 --> 00:06:11,160 He says that the previous 15:50 Carol is a song on any subject composed of uniform stanzas and provided with a baton, 62 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:16,320 and that just generally gone on to be accepted as the definition of a mediaeval carol. 63 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:22,530 But what does that mean? What is a burden? Well, a burden is a refrain element normally at the beginning of carols. 64 00:06:22,530 --> 00:06:26,790 You'll get a little sort of statement, a two line phrase make. 65 00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:34,650 We're joined now in the best and quickest is not as asked, for example, that's done by a group of people normally. 66 00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:40,920 And then come the verses. And after each verse, that burden or that refrain is sung again. 67 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,240 So the burden is very much the communal element. It's the element that everyone joins in with. 68 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:50,640 Everyone sings together with you, get all the voices acting together as one, 69 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:56,490 and the bass is a normally sung by soloist or a few soloists if it's more than one voice part. 70 00:06:56,490 --> 00:07:02,070 If if we're talking to multiple voice parts in something called polyphony. 71 00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:05,610 But the burden is really the important elements of the carol, the bit. 72 00:07:05,610 --> 00:07:08,100 When everyone joins in, it's the bit that gets people involved. 73 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:14,730 It often has wording which encourages people to say in the example, I just said, Make we join? 74 00:07:14,730 --> 00:07:19,350 The whole idea of the way of the participation of the everyone. Let's come together. 75 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:23,900 That's a really important element of most carol gardens. 76 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:31,550 But the important thing to remember is that despite a lot of countries having Christmas associations in mediaeval culture, 77 00:07:31,550 --> 00:07:39,520 the carol was not necessarily a Christmas song. So, Carol, for every different type of event. 78 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:49,870 And if you study mediaeval carols, you'll see everything from feasting songs to really bawdy songs to Christmas Christmas carols. 79 00:07:49,870 --> 00:07:56,740 It's a range of different things, a range of different celebrations and a range of different contexts. 80 00:07:56,740 --> 00:08:02,350 So it's important to dismiss this idea with the mediaeval carol that carols were purely for Christmas. 81 00:08:02,350 --> 00:08:11,020 I'm sorry if I've just spoilt all of your Christmases, but unfortunately that was the way in the mediaeval period, carols were on any subject. 82 00:08:11,020 --> 00:08:16,670 It was just a form they took, as I said, agreed to find that made them Carol. 83 00:08:16,670 --> 00:08:23,040 So understanding that now I would like to say, if there are any questions on what I've just established, 84 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:30,980 just being the council that I'm happy to take them if there aren't and very happy to move on to the manuscripts and have a crack out, 85 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:36,670 one of my favourite manuscripts, which is the South and Carroll book. Thank you, Mike. 86 00:08:36,670 --> 00:08:41,150 I think we'll move on to the manuscripts, although I think we may be going to see a film first. 87 00:08:41,150 --> 00:08:47,950 Oh yes, yes, of course. As a taste of Christmas carols, I think we have a recording that we can share with everyone. 88 00:08:47,950 --> 00:08:53,620 Yes. So we have a recording which a few of us did in the crypt of St Edmunds Hall. 89 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:58,360 It's of us singing a carol called Net New Alice. 90 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,800 It's a very joyful carol, and we even got out some instruments to accompany us. 91 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,600 So hopefully you can hear the bird and best element. 92 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:12,910 Yeah, we sung it all voiced part of the entire thing rather than its soloists and then community singing together. 93 00:09:12,910 --> 00:09:37,820 But yeah, here's our take on Noel Sing We. No, I no, no, no, no, I'm talking because I, you know. 94 00:09:37,820 --> 00:09:47,020 Oh, oh, oh, oh oh. 95 00:09:47,020 --> 00:10:01,250 And don't know, but I would say, wait a moment, some of the people of the 53 year old woman. 96 00:10:01,250 --> 00:10:20,470 Oh oh, oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh. 97 00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:28,600 I don't know what to do if you want to interview people. 98 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:46,870 Oh oh, oh oh oh oh oh oh oh to know. 99 00:10:46,870 --> 00:11:11,110 That was a wonderful moment. So many people are going to have a duty to to you. 100 00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:18,730 Well, you know, I would say more. 101 00:11:18,730 --> 00:11:26,070 Oh, no, no, no, no, no. 102 00:11:26,070 --> 00:11:44,510 You know, I was have to deal with anyone leaving on this. 103 00:11:44,510 --> 00:11:59,780 This will not allow this to take forms that will no longer tolerate the people who will be together. 104 00:11:59,780 --> 00:12:07,700 So I think now we'll move on to looking at a really fascinating manuscript which Andrew will hope to get out for us now. 105 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:13,940 This manuscript is called Oxford Bodleian Library M-Sport Selden B 26. 106 00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:22,520 It is a 15th century manuscript. We give it a rough dating of being sold mid-century, say, 14 Forties roughly. 107 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,000 I think that's debating that Fellows gives it. 108 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:35,780 It's one of my favourite manuscripts and we're very, very lucky to have it out today because the Bodleian very rarely lets anyone look at it. 109 00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:44,660 It took me four years to get to this point of actually having consulted it in person and the person who trained me and Palio Crawford, 110 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:52,100 Daniel Wakelin, had to interview to see it in nineteen ninety nine. So it really is a gem of a manuscript and we're very lucky to be seeing it today. 111 00:12:52,100 --> 00:13:00,710 So thank you very much to the board for allowing us to get up, get out. So yes, so you can see the Southern book here. 112 00:13:00,710 --> 00:13:06,560 As I said, it's 15th century and it's one of four main what we call polyphonic carol manuscripts. 113 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:15,650 And that just means that the music within it has more than one voice part, so it might have two voice parts of three voiced parts in some cases. 114 00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:21,380 So if we sort of flick through the first few days of this, 115 00:13:21,380 --> 00:13:28,940 we could see that it contains some lovely initials that very bright colours and I have to say, 116 00:13:28,940 --> 00:13:33,350 looking at it in person, the brightness of the initials really stands out quite strongly. 117 00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:41,230 It's really lovely to see. And we could see some decorative elements say some reds notation here and there, 118 00:13:41,230 --> 00:13:46,580 you know, really marking out certain phrases or times and the vocal parts. 119 00:13:46,580 --> 00:13:49,670 And yes, so this these first few pages, 120 00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:56,000 if we go on one more tea or two more photos shows a sort of range of material that this manuscript brings together. 121 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:04,490 We don't just have carols, we have liturgical pieces. We have drinking songs at the end of the book and we have carols. 122 00:14:04,490 --> 00:14:15,290 We have quite a lot of carols. So yes, if we tend to audio 23 day, I'm just going to say a little bit about the provenance of this manuscript, 123 00:14:15,290 --> 00:14:17,780 which is something I'm very interested in. 124 00:14:17,780 --> 00:14:29,660 So the provenance of the Southern Cow book has been debated and really debated the Bodleian list at the moment as potentially coming from Worcester. 125 00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:34,160 And that is what Green initially said, Green argued, was the origin. 126 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:43,130 His argument, however, was based on this little drawing that Andrew will hopefully point to now on the right hand side at the bottom of this page. 127 00:14:43,130 --> 00:14:49,110 And it's a drawing, apparently of a cultural. 128 00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:56,580 It's debateable, whether it is actually a cockroach, I struggled to see it, sometimes it's not a great trick. 129 00:14:56,580 --> 00:15:00,870 You'll also notice that in the same pen, that sort of does that. 130 00:15:00,870 --> 00:15:04,880 Drawing at the bottom of this page is an additional verse written out. 131 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:12,890 And Green looks at both of these and says, well, this first has northern dialect, and that's a drawing of a cockroach. 132 00:15:12,890 --> 00:15:21,350 This must indicate was that because there is a cockroach in the coat of arms in Bishop or Cox Insignia. 133 00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:32,180 So he argues that this must point to Mr Musk point towards this bishop that's largely been dismissed in Modern-Day scholarship, 134 00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:38,570 and various people have gone on to suggest various things. Some people have said St. Mary's Newark might be an alternative. 135 00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:43,910 I myself have proposed Hereford as an alternative location for this manuscript, Tempest, 136 00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:48,740 and I'm happy to go into more profitable stuff if anyone wants to hear more about it, 137 00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:53,630 but have to go back to the main purpose of this talk and this manuscript, 138 00:15:53,630 --> 00:15:57,980 I want to say that the range of material that this manuscript embodies is not uncommon. 139 00:15:57,980 --> 00:16:04,970 We do get a sort of liturgical material alongside more secular material in a few books, 140 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:13,070 especially with carols and in the other four manuscripts which are similar to this and contain music and carols with the written manuscript. 141 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:20,060 The Trinity Carroll role and the Edgerton manuscript, there's also that sort of variety. 142 00:16:20,060 --> 00:16:31,370 So yes, that's not very uncommon. Yes, they precious little is really known about the composers associated with these carols. 143 00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:35,240 We think we know some of the names. 144 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:44,990 So in the written manuscript, for example, we have little jokes and in-jokes being said by two composers John Truelove and Richard Samat, 145 00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:50,330 and they sign their names here and there and make remarks at each other, which is very fun. 146 00:16:50,330 --> 00:17:01,040 And in general, we think that a composer called John Dunstable might have had something to do with a lot of these manuscripts, a lot of these carols. 147 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:09,290 So when we look at Seldin, we don't really see all that many marks of ownership or any composers. 148 00:17:09,290 --> 00:17:17,990 Really, the most we really have to go on is a little inscription at the top of 50 or 28 bass, 149 00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:24,470 which just says child and various people have tried to find out who child might have been. 150 00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:31,850 But thus far, no one has been all that successful as far as I'm as far as I'm aware. 151 00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:34,790 But if we do look at one carol. 152 00:17:34,790 --> 00:17:49,600 I pray you all in the sort of the first cow that comes up towards the start of the Friday if you turn back someone at thirty five, I think. 153 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,210 So, yes, if we look at this one, Carol, I pray you will. 154 00:17:54,210 --> 00:18:02,560 It's. Basically, a cow which might then we might be able to tell us a little bit about this associated with this manuscript. 155 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:11,970 So I pray you will. As you can see, it takes a typical powerful. So it has the music at the top and it's got the burden and the first verse. 156 00:18:11,970 --> 00:18:16,690 The music above it and then at the bottom has all these [INAUDIBLE] attached. 157 00:18:16,690 --> 00:18:23,500 Those are the rest of the basses. Next to each of those basses is a bracket and then an indication that the burden must be sung again. 158 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:27,910 So that's typically how the carols are laid out in this book. 159 00:18:27,910 --> 00:18:34,600 But if we go to that burden right at the bottom and what looks like a little bracket next to it, 160 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:44,560 we see it's not actually a bracket, it's actually cued JD and some some people have taken this to mean Quad. 161 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:53,610 John Dunstable. That's because we feel that a lot of carols like, I pray you all are John John Dunstable general style. 162 00:18:53,610 --> 00:18:59,820 He was a bit composed in the 15th century, responsible for a lot of musical works and very well travelled. 163 00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:05,280 He travelled a lot to France as part of the Bedford's household. 164 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:14,520 So this might also tie in with the association terrified here because John Dunstable was actually appointed to academy at Hereford by Bishop Kirk, 165 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:22,950 called Bishop Edmund Lacy. He was also thought to be linked to the marathon through another manuscript, which I'll mention later. 166 00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:31,770 The written manuscript, Edmund Lacy, was very involved in patronage in sort of paying different musicians and composers. 167 00:19:31,770 --> 00:19:39,300 He was a patron of Country Loaf and Richard. I mentioned earlier and he seemed to have been a patron of Dunstable, 168 00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:48,120 so it would seem within his sort of tastes to sort of have a by Dunstable in a book associated with an area where he was present. 169 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:55,740 So horrific, as I said, comes to mind here. It is one of the primary reasons I have argued for Hereford. origin. 170 00:19:55,740 --> 00:20:03,570 But anyway, to move on. John Constable's involvement with all of this and the fact that later on in this manuscript, 171 00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:10,110 we actually have a piece titled Pull Christ by John Plummer could signify sort of courtly culture for this whole thing. 172 00:20:10,110 --> 00:20:12,330 As I said, Dunstable worked for the Duke of Bedford. 173 00:20:12,330 --> 00:20:19,140 He also worked for the Gloucester and Queen Jane at one time, and John Plummer was a member of the Chapel Royal by fourteen point one. 174 00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:27,300 So this could shape the type of environment these cows were being traded in and were occurring and being composed and being swapped in by musicians. 175 00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:38,640 So it could have satiate the carnal form sort of our aristocratic circles and not just, you know, minstrel musicians, as it used to be argued. 176 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:45,480 And yes, this would again fit with the whole Edmund Lacy thing. It would basically emanates basically at heart, courtly life. 177 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,830 He was very close to Henry, the fifth and was with him. 178 00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:57,480 And we actually have one of their most famous carols in this book, ActionScript Carol, which celebrates that victory. 179 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:05,400 So it would again be a celebration of Henry the fifth and Edmund Lacy of Edmund Lacy was tied to this this particular book. 180 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:11,730 To move on to copying, which is our purpose today. The Sultan Kovac is actually copied relatively well. 181 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:23,430 There are limited errors. There are some, but where they occur, it's often sort of erased and then written over again and corrected. 182 00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:27,690 So it's copied quite well in general, which I can't say of all Carle manuscripts. 183 00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:38,250 So if we turn to Folio 11 Rector, we can see a part where the Stav say where the lines of music have actually been rubbed out. 184 00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:55,900 So just let Andrew tender. You can really see as Andrew's turning the sort of beauty of this manuscript of the bright initials, the declaration. 185 00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:58,740 These all carols that I'm understanding now, 186 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:05,940 so as you can see on this failure and pointed out the lines of music, so having music would normally occur, 187 00:22:05,940 --> 00:22:15,540 what we call the states have been rubbed out and then described as gone and filled it back in again and drawn the lines back on. 188 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:20,010 Say, that's just an example of a little bit of correction that's taken place in this manuscript. 189 00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:24,180 As you can see it, some quite neat and quite well. 190 00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:30,120 But you know, that's not always the case, and we do have some instances a notable exception being Ontario. 191 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:39,210 Twenty nine B.C., where the last line of that of that carol on that page gets rubbed out but not filled in again. 192 00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:46,360 That is the notable exception in this manuscript that is on Friday 29 B.C. 193 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:53,830 But as Andrew turns to that to that Friday, I want to ask, basically, what can this tell us apart from that scribes? 194 00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:58,300 We tried really hard to actually copy things accurately. 195 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:03,610 Well, it tells us, but the scribes mismanaged it, but actually taking a level of care with it. 196 00:23:03,610 --> 00:23:10,600 They were trying to make things work. They were trying to make sure the errors were fixed most of the time. 197 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:18,910 And David Fallows has argued that this manuscript can't belong to any grand establishment because it has rough parchment. 198 00:23:18,910 --> 00:23:24,370 There's a couple of holes here and there. It doesn't look all too fancy. 199 00:23:24,370 --> 00:23:28,240 But obviously, this manuscript is something of care. 200 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,970 It is a manuscript that was looked after in a sense, 201 00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:39,190 the manuscript prescribed specifically went back to correct whether it made mistakes and to make it look neat and tidy. 202 00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:47,590 These suggest that the pieces in this book were valued, and the potential of these songs being performed was considered. 203 00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:54,340 Essentially, if you write things down, after all and we get things wrong, we end up with the case. 204 00:23:54,340 --> 00:24:00,700 Like I outlined at the beginning of this talk of misunderstanding a text, completely misunderstanding a song, 205 00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:07,970 completely saying completely different words, or having a complete variant of the initial piece. 206 00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:18,320 So what I'd like to do now if we don't have any questions on this album PowerBook yet is to actually compare some of this. 207 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:25,460 I do have a number of questions actually general and specific. So if that's okay, we will take this moment to do that. 208 00:24:25,460 --> 00:24:32,960 So firstly, a general question about carols, and we have a question saying that I've always associated carols with religious holidays. 209 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:39,080 Did I understand correctly that they are more musical coming together as a group of people, regardless of setting? 210 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:45,050 Yes. So that's one way of thinking about it. Carols were essentially for a number of different contexts. 211 00:24:45,050 --> 00:24:50,690 They weren't necessarily for the tivity or Easter or anything like that. 212 00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:59,180 We have examples of carols which just tell a love story, you know, tells of tales of a girl liking a boy. 213 00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:07,460 And we have examples of carols which are for drinking, which are for feasting on any day at any time. 214 00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:10,880 They're not necessarily associated with any particular feast. 215 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:16,580 I would say that towards the end of the 15th century, the sort of the mid-century to the end of the 15th century, 216 00:25:16,580 --> 00:25:23,330 carols start to take on that more clear association with sort of the nativity, 217 00:25:23,330 --> 00:25:30,020 and we tend to see more and more carols popping up connected with Christ Child and with the birth of Jesus. 218 00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:37,980 With nativity settings, we see more lullaby carols and then we have carols popping up for sort of religious days as well. 219 00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:44,150 I mean, the written manuscript, which is the the latest entry you'll see at the bazaar headings for some of the carols, 220 00:25:44,150 --> 00:25:48,860 which indicate what these days they should be performed on or reference to. 221 00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:51,080 So that is sort of a later 15th century thing, 222 00:25:51,080 --> 00:26:00,400 but the cowt or extents and purposes was something that could be adapted to any sort of day time an occasion. 223 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,890 Lovely, thank you. Do we know where the word Carol comes from? We do, indeed. 224 00:26:05,890 --> 00:26:12,970 We think it comes from the word carol, which was a French word, and it initially indicated a dance. 225 00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:15,530 So the carol was originally a stockholder. 226 00:26:15,530 --> 00:26:22,570 So you join hands and you go in a circle and the button would be sung and you turn one way and the bassist would be sung by soloist. 227 00:26:22,570 --> 00:26:29,470 And again, you'd go round. So they think the word carol basically embodies the circle of movement, 228 00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:35,770 which form sort of takes of the bad and best bad and best bad and best structure. 229 00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:40,330 There have been other arguments. Some try and connect it to the material. 230 00:26:40,330 --> 00:26:46,170 But the one that's generally accepted is that the cat that carol comes from, the carol, which is French. 231 00:26:46,170 --> 00:26:56,570 Simply, do we know where the word burden comes from? So unfortunately, I'm not, I'm not great with etymology, but a burden in gen. 232 00:26:56,570 --> 00:27:01,200 I'm not quite sure where the word comes from itself. But it's just generally take it to me refrain. 233 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:07,020 Sometimes it gets called a vote in certain manuscripts, you actually have it written next to it. 234 00:27:07,020 --> 00:27:10,140 So what comes to mind is burial mystery three five four. 235 00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:15,930 Next to some carols, you just have about two written instead of bad and or instead of profane. 236 00:27:15,930 --> 00:27:19,380 So yes, we did have a clear idea of where the word bad comes from. 237 00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:23,670 Thank you. We've got a couple of questions specifically about the sales of manuscripts. 238 00:27:23,670 --> 00:27:30,480 I lost those now and then the other general questions I'll come back to later. But firstly, what? 239 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,410 This might be one for Andrew, actually. Do we know what's caused the staining on the manuscript? 240 00:27:34,410 --> 00:27:42,850 It doesn't look like a simple water stain, so some of the earlier folios had staining on the. 241 00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:49,880 So we we have we have, in fact been. 242 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,690 Michael and I were looking at this the other day, and we were assuming that it certainly. 243 00:27:55,690 --> 00:27:59,650 It looks like something has been slush on those pages, doesn't it? 244 00:27:59,650 --> 00:28:04,030 Yeah. I mean, just to chime in, David, I think. 245 00:28:04,030 --> 00:28:08,000 And other scholars mention that it's watermark. Mm-Hmm. 246 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:16,180 Yeah. Yes. So we have been assuming that's what it was. And it also it doesn't leave any residue there, either. 247 00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:20,500 So it's I mean, it doesn't appear to be wax, for example. 248 00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:29,640 So it's an interesting it's an interesting comment that it doesn't look like water and we'd certainly be interested in other ideas. 249 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:37,540 Also answer the question about the binding of the manuscript, which let me just show you quickly. 250 00:28:37,540 --> 00:28:43,180 This is actually this is actually not the original binding. 251 00:28:43,180 --> 00:28:49,510 Unfortunately, most mediaeval manuscripts have been rebound at some point in their life. 252 00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:55,810 And so this is. So this manuscript came into the world then from the collection of John Selden. 253 00:28:55,810 --> 00:29:00,140 You can see that this is this is a binding that this is probably put on. 254 00:29:00,140 --> 00:29:05,700 The will be a library. This bit of red ink on the back there. 255 00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:10,500 And so this is this is very much an early modern binding. 256 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:20,430 You can actually see that the this is the old spine from the manuscript because this is this has actually been the spine was replaced, probably. 257 00:29:20,430 --> 00:29:30,360 And I would guess and perhaps the 1950s as repairs in bookbinding terminology, we call that re backing. 258 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:37,950 You can see also what we can tell from the from the bindings that you can see these two little staple holes right there. 259 00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:42,360 That means that this was once part of this. 260 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:52,710 It was once a change book set that was probably the in the southern end of the of the building. 261 00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:57,600 So it tells us a bit about the history of the book within the body in itself, 262 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,010 but it doesn't tell us anything about the earlier history of the book, unfortunately. 263 00:30:02,010 --> 00:30:06,420 And this is, as I say, this is really common for mediaeval manuscripts. 264 00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:15,240 It's very rare for for pre-modern books to survive in their original binding. 265 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,630 Thank you, and I think that that's great. I think I'm conscious of time, 266 00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:24,540 so I think we'll move on to our second manuscript and I'll pick up the other questions at the end because 267 00:30:24,540 --> 00:30:31,530 see us now Andre is going to hopefully get out a little collection of carols that we have in the bud, 268 00:30:31,530 --> 00:30:39,780 which I'm going to use to sort of compare to the and carols. I'm going to look at one in particular, which is called Make me joy. 269 00:30:39,780 --> 00:30:40,770 It's quite a famous carol. 270 00:30:40,770 --> 00:30:49,920 There's a there's an addition of it that's recently, I think the last three months been recorded by the 16, and you can find that on the cheap. 271 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,620 So yes, this little manuscript is really quite something. 272 00:30:52,620 --> 00:31:00,120 As you can see this little velvet box, it's a 15th century manuscript as the top of that box outlines, 273 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:07,260 and it's a really small little collection of carols, most of which don't have any music with them. 274 00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:11,490 Most of them are just written out without any music. 275 00:31:11,490 --> 00:31:13,140 And so it's a non-native book. 276 00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:20,760 There are a few with just sort of one line of music with one voice, but it's very, very simple in comparison to the South and book. 277 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:27,780 It's written on paper rather than parchment, and it's got this lovely sort of green and gold binding. 278 00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:32,120 It's been rebound, so it's not in its initial binding. 279 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:43,400 And if we open the first failure? You can see a sort of form these cards take. 280 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:50,540 So as you can see here, we've got a little bit of decoration with the little initial at the top and played some red filling in. 281 00:31:50,540 --> 00:31:55,310 But yeah, this is the form the carols in this book take in general that the bed and at the top. 282 00:31:55,310 --> 00:31:56,900 And then they've got the best is written out. 283 00:31:56,900 --> 00:32:03,770 And then they've got this bracketing next to the verses showing where the rhyme occurs and where the best structure is. 284 00:32:03,770 --> 00:32:10,460 And then the bad and sometimes indicated to the right of the brackets, basically telling you to repeat after the best. 285 00:32:10,460 --> 00:32:14,810 So that's the general form that these cows in this little book take. 286 00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:23,960 But if we turn to foliar 32 birthday, you will see the carol that I'm going to compare to the same variant. 287 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:30,230 Carol Carol in the Southern Catholic says I said that cow is called Make Rejoice, and again, 288 00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:39,080 you can see that's all but an element of encouraging people together in that one line to make we joy. 289 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,400 And it's a really lovely carol is quite so the fast paced. 290 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:54,970 It's quite nice to listen to. But is Andrew just put the snake that held it so this carol begins at the bottom of the page? 291 00:32:54,970 --> 00:33:03,370 It's marked out by that little sort of squiggle in the margins on the left hand side and the bad and written there and then the first verse. 292 00:33:03,370 --> 00:33:12,160 So the first verse is written underneath the burden, and in this first is where we get our first mistake. 293 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:21,730 So the scribe has written a partridge in a genesis and then sing We and say, welcome Benny. 294 00:33:21,730 --> 00:33:28,510 Read them to see him. But when it comes to the Neve Adaptogens, him the Latin line of this verse, 295 00:33:28,510 --> 00:33:35,050 the scribe has written V and then it seems as if they've almost looked away or they've done something. 296 00:33:35,050 --> 00:33:38,320 Then they've come back to it and written. Then you were told next to it. 297 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:47,590 So we get the very redemptive gymnasium, so we get a little sort of mistake and that might indicate some sort of tracking the scribe looking away, 298 00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:55,780 perhaps at the manuscript they were copying from and then looking back and writing out the whole word again by accident. 299 00:33:55,780 --> 00:34:03,030 But if we look further on it, the main mistake in this carol? We might actually see something a little bit different here. 300 00:34:03,030 --> 00:34:09,120 So the third verse of this, Carol. We know what it's supposed to read because we have it in Seldin and we've got another 301 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,490 copy of it in the written account book as well as a post read a soulless Ortiz Cordani. 302 00:34:14,490 --> 00:34:24,000 So my dear lord was known as Hey. Known as he has given Grace, Adam Temperance quite follow it. 303 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:32,600 But as you see here, that line just ends. There is nothing say we have half grace and then absolutely nothing. 304 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:41,330 Whereas in the seldom book, we have Adam Karen's quote, part of it, we have the Latin line, so why do we have a missing line here? 305 00:34:41,330 --> 00:34:46,160 Why is there another mistake in the Latin? Why is described as left it blank? 306 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:53,300 Again, this could be explained by breaking, copying, described, looking away or stopping, going and doing something, coming back and writing. 307 00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:55,460 But it would be a very odd place to stop. 308 00:34:55,460 --> 00:35:01,010 It would be very odd indeed, stuck in the middle of a vast rather than completing about us and taking a step away. 309 00:35:01,010 --> 00:35:05,270 This also comes at a period of what Daniel Weixin calls continuous flow in the Spanish script, 310 00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:12,740 where a number of parallels are written in the same ink and seems to be written fairly close together. 311 00:35:12,740 --> 00:35:18,800 So it would break that sort of sort of flow. Another idea is memory. 312 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:26,060 So the scribe could have been recalling word by word the carol and potentially struggling when it came to the Latin words. 313 00:35:26,060 --> 00:35:35,090 But we have to remember here that the mediaeval culture was a highly oral culture and highly reliant on memorisation and ideas of memory. 314 00:35:35,090 --> 00:35:40,640 And Latin phrases in cars are often ones that were very familiar to the laity. 315 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:46,310 Words they would hear in everyday liturgical services. Words that would be easily memorised. 316 00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:51,680 So it is perhaps unlikely that they would have forgotten this. 317 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,060 So there's any sort of a third explanation that we can really tanti. 318 00:35:56,060 --> 00:35:59,420 And that is that the exemplar that the scribe was copying from, say, 319 00:35:59,420 --> 00:36:07,490 the manuscript that the scribe copied this carol from was perhaps unclear and unclear. 320 00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:15,800 Exemplars do occur. How many scripts Geoffrey Jeremy Griffiths actually highlights that those are critical. 321 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,370 There is no race which is popular is quite popular today. 322 00:36:19,370 --> 00:36:25,700 Still an admission by you? There is often sung at Carol Services, but he Jeremy Griffiths, 323 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:31,490 except there is no race and that exists in the Trinity Carol, which is not a 15th century carol manuscript. 324 00:36:31,490 --> 00:36:36,350 And in a Holkham Hall manuscript, the Holkham Hall one doesn't have musical notation. 325 00:36:36,350 --> 00:36:43,010 Griffiths looks at best and notices the errors take place at the start and end of each line. 326 00:36:43,010 --> 00:36:48,410 When the scribes should now and Griffiths sort of assumes from this and obsessed by 327 00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:53,000 this that the scribe may have been sort of dividing verses up as they went along, 328 00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:01,610 dividing the lines up. And this could be because the manuscript they were copying from had really unclear line division. 329 00:37:01,610 --> 00:37:04,040 So why might that line division have been unclear? 330 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:10,550 Why might nine division and so of the exemplar have been unclear in this case that we see here in any poet? 331 00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:19,070 Well, I would suggest that the manuscript that best scribes using was actually a music manuscript and copying from music manuscript. 332 00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:23,780 This would make sense in terms of how the scribe has copied this particular carol. 333 00:37:23,780 --> 00:37:31,370 They've copied it in sort of two long lines, which we sort of we call the opening line. 334 00:37:31,370 --> 00:37:41,360 The copy it with two lines, and then Andrew will show you a document now which will demonstrate this hopefully say, 335 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:49,290 let's wait for him to get that up then. Say, I say I have tried to transcribe it here as it's copied in both manuscripts, 336 00:37:49,290 --> 00:38:01,080 so you can see in inchoate you have that verse under the Leon and Line Box Apache and Genesis through a has come to us to we here and say welcome, 337 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:07,750 then read them Trojans. And so you can see the two long lines and the Leonen refers to the rhyme scheme here. 338 00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:12,210 So genital shining with us. Welcome rhyme against you. 339 00:38:12,210 --> 00:38:18,060 And those are separated by caesura, so a little a little full stop, indicating that a break in between. 340 00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:20,640 So describe it and put this written out in these two long lines. 341 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:28,800 And if we look at the cell phone book, we see again that describe that has written out in these two long lines as well. 342 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,110 So it may be that the scribe in Poe is looking at a sort of musical manuscript with a similar layout to 343 00:38:34,110 --> 00:38:40,530 Sheldon and finding line division to be quite unclear and finding the exemplar general to be quite unclear. 344 00:38:40,530 --> 00:38:45,330 And we know that the poet describes what all of that comfortable musical notation. 345 00:38:45,330 --> 00:38:49,650 We didn't see much of it. There are two scribes. One news's name is connotation at all. 346 00:38:49,650 --> 00:38:54,900 The other uses a few bits here and there, but not very well. 347 00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:58,880 So we can perhaps say that the scribe might have been copying from the musical manuscript. 348 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,770 He might have been making mistakes as they go along, 349 00:39:01,770 --> 00:39:08,250 particularly these Latin bits find it difficult to decipher a finding it difficult to know how to lay out this carol, 350 00:39:08,250 --> 00:39:19,320 in particular where the break should occur. To have it in a normal sort of best full song exemplars can cause quite a real issue with copying them, 351 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:26,770 with mistakes being made and with different variants of carols occurring because of them. 352 00:39:26,770 --> 00:39:34,720 It's interesting in the Ritson, Carroll book in particular that there is quite a lot of going wrong with this particular account as well. 353 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:41,710 So Ritson has make joint and in written there's sort of the same structure. 354 00:39:41,710 --> 00:39:46,540 Seldom it's got music with it. So you've got the bad in the past best with the accompanying music. 355 00:39:46,540 --> 00:39:54,130 But unlike Selden, which has each of the verses laid out, then underneath that music written only has four lines, 356 00:39:54,130 --> 00:39:59,280 has agnostic or no secular Brit star three kings made come so nice or discordant. 357 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:10,060 A symmetry is known as hey, so it's known as the lions, and modern transcribers have looked at this and been like This must be the next best. 358 00:40:10,060 --> 00:40:18,820 I would argue, no, I argue, looking at Selden and looking at it, we see that agnostic on this column, 359 00:40:18,820 --> 00:40:27,100 a great star that he Kingsmead is actually the first two lines of first to as as artist coordinator makes. 360 00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:32,110 The Lord is not as hate is actually the first to first two lines of best three. 361 00:40:32,110 --> 00:40:35,560 So I would argue that these actually prompt in that manuscript. 362 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:41,080 Prompts for the buses described didn't need to write it all out because the written manuscript was perhaps a 363 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:51,310 manuscript that was more used for actual performance than Selden or Ang Poet or Edgerton or the Trinity Carol role. 364 00:40:51,310 --> 00:40:56,410 So yes, I think Ritson, if you look at it, it's got a lot of errors and corrections as well, 365 00:40:56,410 --> 00:41:02,210 but it looks like a manuscript that was more used for performance and it's larger than Seldon as well, which is a fact. 366 00:41:02,210 --> 00:41:07,240 So you get quite large choir books like the Eton Choir book, 367 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:12,160 which were easy for performers to see, especially if there were different voiced parts going on. 368 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:17,380 And they could sort of gather round and they could sing from it. But is not like that. 369 00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:21,880 Selden is small, it's compact. It's copied quite well. 370 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,860 But again, there's no no real marks of performance. No, so no sort of prompting. 371 00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:32,290 Nothing like that that tells us that it was actually performed. So what was it useful? 372 00:41:32,290 --> 00:41:36,310 I would suggest that it was actually more of a reference guide in a way, 373 00:41:36,310 --> 00:41:42,130 a sort of way of musicians being like, Oh, I I know this Carol or I know this piece. 374 00:41:42,130 --> 00:41:50,740 I don't perform it. So it's being performed in this day. Let me just check something and say it was a sort of recorder, a document, if you will, 375 00:41:50,740 --> 00:42:00,490 a working document showing the sort of tastes of the time and the music that was particularly relevant to a certain institution. 376 00:42:00,490 --> 00:42:06,220 So I think in the sense, we have to treat Seldon as a reference guide rather than a performance manuscript 377 00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:11,080 where we can treat Ritson as more of a performance manuscript in itself, 378 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,130 which is quite exciting, really, because we don't often get marks of performance. 379 00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:22,060 And it's interesting just to have this sort of two little prompts for musicians, and it shows a lot about memory as well. 380 00:42:22,060 --> 00:42:28,450 It shows that musicians who have been so skilled that they would have known these pieces by heart, 381 00:42:28,450 --> 00:42:32,950 they would have needed much to sort of prompted the recollection of them when they were performing. 382 00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:40,420 They would have known the verses. And if you read a lot about sort of how choral choral music works in that time, 383 00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:48,100 you'll hear about how some musicians have to memorise whole previous day's total liturgical services had to have absolutely committed to memory. 384 00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:54,310 Mediaeval period was absolutely a culture that relied on ideas of memory, and that was key to performance. 385 00:42:54,310 --> 00:43:00,640 You can't really separate memory from performance time. There were so well combined. 386 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:10,180 So, yes, I think Ritson really shows us that the use of these prompts and the Sound and Carroll book should be treated as more of an aid memoir. 387 00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:15,340 Seldom, they does have marks that show us that it was used over time, as shown earlier. 388 00:43:15,340 --> 00:43:20,860 There was that sort of late hand that's the best, but hand also gives names to some of the carols. 389 00:43:20,860 --> 00:43:29,080 So Miller's Christy Clarissa liturgical piece in this work, but Layton comes back and actually adds the title to it. 390 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:36,820 So we see that sound and still being used over a period of time, and it remains sort of relevant to whatever institution it was used in. 391 00:43:36,820 --> 00:43:43,960 And it remains sort of important for a little bit of time. It's not just written down and forgotten about by any means. 392 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,080 At the end of the book, there's actually a drinking song that is added much later, 393 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,370 and it is without any sort of illuminations or initials or decoration. 394 00:43:51,370 --> 00:44:02,150 It's very much written in black ink all the way through, and it's quite a different style, I suppose, to the previous carols and musical works. 395 00:44:02,150 --> 00:44:09,450 But yes, just around there's talk of as I'm conscious about time, I just want to say something quick about the Trinity Carol. 396 00:44:09,450 --> 00:44:15,650 That is the final sort of multi voice Carroll book that we have. 397 00:44:15,650 --> 00:44:21,080 It's kept at Trinity College Cambridge, and it's this really long roll containing a number of carols at its heart. 398 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:26,510 Is this ashen cool carol which you also have an seldon Democrats? Yes, uglier. 399 00:44:26,510 --> 00:44:29,870 And this kind of role. She has six carols with Selden. 400 00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:37,550 So a lot of people have suggested that there's a relationship between the two manuscripts if we take Seldon as being perfect. 401 00:44:37,550 --> 00:44:44,630 We then note that the Trinity Carol of all have our best guess that Trinity Carol is from the sort of Norfolk area. 402 00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:50,780 Helen deeming suggests it might have travelled some way, might have been a travelling document with a scribe or musician that was at the 403 00:44:50,780 --> 00:44:56,820 Ashram Course celebrations that were held in London when Henry the fifth or 10. 404 00:44:56,820 --> 00:45:01,310 So that might have provided the opportunity for the musicians that were associated with the 405 00:45:01,310 --> 00:45:06,920 Selden Carol book to sort of interact with the musicians associated with the Trinity Carol. 406 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,240 And that could explain that sort of cross-pollination of carols and the use of Carol, 407 00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:19,100 some one document from the other side of the country to another manuscript on this side of the country. 408 00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:23,960 So it's shows that sort of circulation that could be happening with these carols and shows how 409 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:30,770 musicians could interact and how these cows could sort of travel between areas of the country, 410 00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:34,590 Carol. Culture was not stationary. It was very much on the move. 411 00:45:34,590 --> 00:45:39,260 It was being transmitted orally. It was being transmitted by exemplar. 412 00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:46,250 Its publication was in both senses on the page and by by vocalisation. 413 00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:53,570 So we rarely see carols travelling here and being a real highlight of musical exchange. 414 00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:59,060 And on that note, I hope you've sort of had a feel of what caricature was today, 415 00:45:59,060 --> 00:46:07,880 and I've been able to make a few suggestions about what Page may be able to tell us about performance, culture, generality, late mediaeval England. 416 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,230 Selden is a very fine and very rich collection, 417 00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:19,460 but we must be sort of hesitant about playing our modern expectations of things like memory or performance to it. 418 00:46:19,460 --> 00:46:24,740 We can sort of give our best guesses, as I said before, we can give our suggestions, 419 00:46:24,740 --> 00:46:31,010 but we have to be so careful about it because we cannot go back 500 years, as sad as that may be. 420 00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:39,740 But we can by looking at what's in the page, pieced together slowly an idea or a sense, an echo of what might have been. 421 00:46:39,740 --> 00:46:44,000 So we cannot say what certainly was, but we can suggest what may have been. 422 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:52,520 By doing that, we can appreciate the talent, the recall, the performance culture of this genre and this time long before the first few 423 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:58,070 nights of once in Royal David's city reverberated around King's College Chapel. 424 00:46:58,070 --> 00:47:04,580 So I thank you very much for being here today, and I thank you very much for listening to me speak about these wonderful manuscripts. 425 00:47:04,580 --> 00:47:12,350 I hope I've really shown you a little bit about the wonderful collection the Polly and House of Carols non notated and musically annotated, 426 00:47:12,350 --> 00:47:20,160 and that you go away with a sort of new idea of what Carolyn was and what counterculture was mediaeval Britain. 427 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,680 Thank you so much, Mika, that was absolutely fascinating, 428 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:30,450 and I think you've shown us a great deal about where these cameras come from and the kind of complexity of looking at them. 429 00:47:30,450 --> 00:47:33,670 We have come to the end of all scheduled time, but we do have a lot of questions, 430 00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:38,740 so I'm hoping that you would be happy to answer them for the next few minutes. 431 00:47:38,740 --> 00:47:42,960 And as I said, Eddie, we don't get through. We will share in the follow up email. 432 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:48,610 So if you do have to leave, please do. And we will be sharing information later. 433 00:47:48,610 --> 00:47:53,400 But if you have able to stay on everyone, then please do and it will come to the questions. 434 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,840 So I'm going to start with one about the second manuscript missing poet. 435 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:06,420 One attendee has commented that the bracketed sections remind him of his limited knowledge of middle English poetic manuscripts. 436 00:48:06,420 --> 00:48:13,710 Is there an obvious way to differentiate between poetic manuscripts and musical manuscripts when there is no notation? 437 00:48:13,710 --> 00:48:20,430 This is a difficult one, I think, for a lot of scholars, so sometimes I think a lot of cars have been overlooked because they've just 438 00:48:20,430 --> 00:48:25,110 been taken to be middle English verse because they take such a similar form. 439 00:48:25,110 --> 00:48:31,020 Obviously, it helps when the burden is written to the right hand side of these things because then we say, Oh, that must be repeated. 440 00:48:31,020 --> 00:48:35,460 Sometimes we do have the scribe just writing underneath the button in full, 441 00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:40,710 which helps because we see that refrain element even if it's not next to the brackets. 442 00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:47,160 But yes, it was a very common thing to use bracketing to distinguish rhyme, particularly aimed at English verse. 443 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:54,000 And really, when we're studying all of this, we have to make that decision of what kind of lyric is this? 444 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,370 Is this a musical lyric? Was this was this sort of something that we could compare to other carols? 445 00:48:59,370 --> 00:49:02,730 Or is it just is it just verse itself? 446 00:49:02,730 --> 00:49:12,620 And normally we tend to refer to other carols with sort of structural elements that are similar and then make a decision based on that. 447 00:49:12,620 --> 00:49:16,940 Thank you. That's that's really interesting. Thank you. We've had a comment on the word, 448 00:49:16,940 --> 00:49:24,080 but someone has suggested it might come from the French poodle and which means the drain or lowest part of instrumental music. 449 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:28,600 So that's that's a interesting suggestion. Thank you very much. 450 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:34,950 That's interesting to me. Some people have been voting for questions. 451 00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:41,600 That's a good way to make sure that we get them. So I've had a question about with the majority of these carols being mediaeval. 452 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:48,170 What language are they predominantly written in? And if you have a myriad of manuscripts from several different locations, 453 00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:53,420 can you notice cultural or area specific alterations in the production of the carols? 454 00:49:53,420 --> 00:50:06,590 Yes. So that's really interesting. So carols, I think in terms of area where they come from, you can sort of look at them and notice dialect features. 455 00:50:06,590 --> 00:50:09,830 And then sometimes that gives an indication of where the scribes and from. 456 00:50:09,830 --> 00:50:16,070 But obviously and scribes need about, they may come from Norfolk, but actually be working in London. 457 00:50:16,070 --> 00:50:20,630 So it's not as not necessarily an indication that this manuscript was from Norfolk or 458 00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:27,600 this manuscript was from this area because some musicians did me a move about a lot. 459 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:35,860 And so what was the first part of that question again? I go on to the second part of the first part that with me was. 460 00:50:35,860 --> 00:50:40,490 About. Yes, what language are they? 461 00:50:40,490 --> 00:50:48,230 Yes, say most accounts are written in middle English. We do have what's called macaroni carrots, which make use of both middle English and Latin. 462 00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:54,230 So I think we can do we have one here, the on rushing thing to say. 463 00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:58,850 But yes, I say actually no. We any return. Redemptive attention is on the right hand side, 464 00:50:58,850 --> 00:51:07,690 and you see this combines Latin and then middle English verse, so you can see it's at the bottom there. 465 00:51:07,690 --> 00:51:14,210 And which pointing out to that, and that's called a macaroni carol. We do have some elements of French appearing at times. 466 00:51:14,210 --> 00:51:18,740 I'm just showing what I'm sort of multilingual culture these cows are lacking in. 467 00:51:18,740 --> 00:51:22,190 Thank you. And another question about the music, 468 00:51:22,190 --> 00:51:29,950 so we've known notated carols are the tunes mentioned or is it assumed the reader will know how it's meant to be sung? 469 00:51:29,950 --> 00:51:36,290 Well, this is a really nice thing to bring up with any poet, actually, because in ENCODE, 470 00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:41,150 there is a carol tydings tree that become new and it is written with its music. 471 00:51:41,150 --> 00:51:50,090 So one voice very simply, but at the bottom ascribe has written This is supposed to be performed to the tune I have set. 472 00:51:50,090 --> 00:51:53,330 I'm sort of repeating that they might know a little bit about music or they 473 00:51:53,330 --> 00:51:58,760 both scribes in and poets don't seem to have all that much musical knowledge. 474 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:05,240 But the scribe then goes, But if you want to, you can set it to any other tune that you choose to, 475 00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:14,570 which is quite a nice way of showing that showing that there is this sort of culture where different carol lyrics could be applied to different tunes, 476 00:52:14,570 --> 00:52:20,870 so there was some indication of what tunes may have been used for it. There is a manuscript, I think. 477 00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:24,530 I think it's gambling keys three, eight four. 478 00:52:24,530 --> 00:52:29,330 I might get the number wrong, but a lot of manuscripts to remember. 479 00:52:29,330 --> 00:52:35,480 But where the scribe is sitting next to Carl, that it can be performed to the tune of a French song. 480 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:43,340 And yeah, we do sometimes have those indications, but they are very rare and it's nice when we do find them. 481 00:52:43,340 --> 00:52:47,180 I love the idea that, you know, they were very sharing of the music and the words, whereas Natsu, 482 00:52:47,180 --> 00:52:54,920 they are quite loyal to particular to get a lot more arguments today about what's the right words, 483 00:52:54,920 --> 00:53:00,770 what's the right teams in Karel culture, mediaeval Britain who seems very much a thing of, you know, 484 00:53:00,770 --> 00:53:06,170 one scribe, one tribe might write one version of the carol with verses in a certain order. 485 00:53:06,170 --> 00:53:13,730 Another scribe might write the second version of that carol with swapped verses because they feel that that delivers the message better. 486 00:53:13,730 --> 00:53:18,410 Or there might be different settings of the carols written. 487 00:53:18,410 --> 00:53:27,380 For example, the written manuscript has much more florid musical writing than Selden or some of the earlier manuscripts. 488 00:53:27,380 --> 00:53:35,270 So you sort of see elaboration going on with the musical settings of these things and thinking of the music. 489 00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:39,560 We've been asked if any carols are written in ancient manuscripts. 490 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:44,300 Sorry, have any carols written in ancient manuscripts being adapted for most music? 491 00:53:44,300 --> 00:53:48,860 And if so, could you share examples? I think you've mentioned a couple that are still sung today. 492 00:53:48,860 --> 00:53:52,940 Yeah, so that's a beautiful setting of There Is No Race, 493 00:53:52,940 --> 00:54:03,950 a carol that is featured in 20 Carol and Hokum Whole Legal Manuscript I believe in alcohol and John your that South African composer, 494 00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:10,040 I believe, writes. There is no reason sets it to sort of modern notation. 495 00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:18,140 So that's a really lovely carol. Adam Baumann has some really lovely, modern sort of editions that I would have to go to listen to it. 496 00:54:18,140 --> 00:54:24,440 A really lovely carol again, trying to think of the top of my head, some of the others. 497 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,290 So, yeah, we do have some settings of things like Make Joy, 498 00:54:27,290 --> 00:54:33,800 which have been sort of looked at from a historical lens and people have tried to restore them to sort of what they were. 499 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:39,170 But obviously, it's always difficult to tell what things actually were in the mediaeval period. 500 00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:46,340 But yeah, definitely in my top two choices would be Adam label and there is no race key, and I'm sticking to the idea of music. 501 00:54:46,340 --> 00:54:49,130 Did the scribes with the scribes have had musical knowledge, 502 00:54:49,130 --> 00:54:54,620 so all of the errors that they're catching purely in terms of the lyrics or the text being wrong? 503 00:54:54,620 --> 00:54:58,000 Or are there things that musically don't make sense? 504 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:04,940 So it's quite interesting because this sort of makes me think of the idea of underlay, particularly this Seldin Carroll book. 505 00:55:04,940 --> 00:55:09,440 So in this of book, we have a number of scribes. 506 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:14,450 He write just the lyrics, but don't necessarily write the music. 507 00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:20,210 And it's argued that there are sort of a different set of scribes that writing the music and a different set of scribe that are writing the lyrics. 508 00:55:20,210 --> 00:55:26,300 It's difficult to know if that is true because obviously you can't really compare lyrics to music most of the time. 509 00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:30,530 But we do know that this was the product of what David Fellows would refer to as a 510 00:55:30,530 --> 00:55:35,990 fairly large script for him so that there were multiple people working on this. 511 00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:41,000 And Selden kind of book is quite interesting in the sense that the words are written in such a way that it's 512 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:48,290 very difficult to tell whether underlay lives so where the words are supposed to correspond to the text. 513 00:55:48,290 --> 00:55:53,960 That makes me again think that it's a reference work that is just something to sort of check by musicians and that they would 514 00:55:53,960 --> 00:56:03,050 have had this sort of knowledge from memory of how the cattle sort of went and where the music pasty correspond to the words. 515 00:56:03,050 --> 00:56:08,660 And that was more just a reminder. And as I said earlier. 516 00:56:08,660 --> 00:56:12,230 So yes, it's quite interesting how the music corresponds, 517 00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:17,710 and there are places where the music is corrected just to give sort of an accurate impression of what. 518 00:56:17,710 --> 00:56:23,860 The tune might have been in Ritson, we see that the words are split up much more clearly, 519 00:56:23,860 --> 00:56:29,110 that the underlay is a little bit more clear in the kind of lives talking about makori joy. 520 00:56:29,110 --> 00:56:37,090 The word words are split and basically describe has gone across and crossed out with underlay hasn't worked 521 00:56:37,090 --> 00:56:43,720 and then rewritten the words to make sure that the music is corresponding to the lyrics accurately. 522 00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:49,030 So we do see some attention to that in written again, showing that it's probably a performance manuscript. 523 00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:53,440 Thank you. And sticking to her idea of copying, I think we'll just do a couple more. And they will to finish. 524 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,700 But is there any suggestion that the carols might have been sort of copied without any physical 525 00:56:57,700 --> 00:57:03,020 copy so they might have been written down when they were heard rather than taking the manuscript? 526 00:57:03,020 --> 00:57:14,570 Yeah, I think it is safest to. Sort of naturally assume, and I'm being very careful here that some corals must have been written down from memory, 527 00:57:14,570 --> 00:57:20,210 as I said to the mediaeval period was a highly oral culture and one very reliant on memory, 528 00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:25,970 so it is unlikely that no carol was ever copied down from memory. 529 00:57:25,970 --> 00:57:35,510 And so some of what we see today, particularly, I want to say and perhaps not notated current collections might have come from memorisation, 530 00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:41,570 from hearing performance and then writing it down. That is a key part of my study and the next phase of my research, actually, 531 00:57:41,570 --> 00:57:47,120 and seeing if we can trace their sort of aspects of memory and access aspects of them. 532 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:54,080 Performance a see if by looking at non-attached manuscripts next to annotated manuscripts, 533 00:57:54,080 --> 00:58:02,620 we can see if performance and if hearing performance is influencing the way these things are written down. 534 00:58:02,620 --> 00:58:08,800 So watch this space for live, thank you very much. I think we'll have to finish now, but there's one more question. 535 00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:16,190 Do you have any comments about Russell Robinson's arguments about Carol sometimes having being used as processional hymns? 536 00:58:16,190 --> 00:58:23,640 Oh yes, I have. I have a lot of comments, so maybe a brief, very brief summary that I could tell you more in the follow up. 537 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:33,460 Yesterday, I actually wrote about this relatively recently. I think the carol form was easily adapted to a number of different contexts. 538 00:58:33,460 --> 00:58:39,970 I think it could have been used as Op-Ed columnist dominated substitute in some, some ways. 539 00:58:39,970 --> 00:58:48,190 And I think that often the call is discounted from having been used in the tactical spaces because people see it as a secular form. 540 00:58:48,190 --> 00:58:53,110 I think that is wrong to assume that it was purely used in secular spaces. 541 00:58:53,110 --> 00:58:56,680 I think the mediaeval idea of the secular and sacred is so complex. 542 00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:03,880 I'm so intertwined with each other that things like the carol could have easily been used in both sacred space and secular space, 543 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:10,120 and possibly as Robin sort of describes being used in a procession. 544 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,450 We know that it was used, for example, in secular processions, mystery plays. 545 00:59:13,450 --> 00:59:24,020 You sit there sort of secular procession around the city, and if it was used in procession in that sense, why not in procession in the cultural space? 546 00:59:24,020 --> 00:59:27,980 The person you ask that question is put a little smiley face, so I can, 547 00:59:27,980 --> 00:59:35,450 but I take the code or the complexity of carols is a perfect way to finish because that's what you've been sharing with us today. 548 00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:37,370 So I think we will have to finish that. 549 00:59:37,370 --> 00:59:42,600 If you have asked a question that hasn't been answered, please be assured we will try and answer it in a follow up email. 550 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,260 But I'd just like to finish by saying thank you again. 551 00:59:45,260 --> 00:59:52,250 So much to become Mickey and Andrew Dunning for sharing and explaining those really fascinating manuscripts and their stories. 552 00:59:52,250 --> 00:59:57,830 And thank you to everyone who's joined us today. It's been great to have attendees from far and wide. 553 00:59:57,830 --> 01:00:02,900 And thank you to our technical team. Do you sign up to our newsletter to find out more about upcoming events? 554 01:00:02,900 --> 01:00:07,070 And we hope to see you again soon. Have a good evening and thanks again. 555 01:00:07,070 --> 01:00:13,097 Thank you.