So can you just start by saying your name and what your current position is?
I'm Agent Wong and currently I'm a research scientist at the University of Oxford.
I'm a student and I am also employee and Perspective, which is the founder who fund me to do my Ph.D.
And yeah, I am a research scientist and innovation team right now.
All right. So I'm going back to how you first got interested in science.
Can you just talk me through the stages of your education and career up to the point where you first came to us?
Oh, wow. Okay. Even before I came to.
Oh, yes. Yes. From right. How did you first decide you were going to do a science degree?
Right. That is that's that's a very good that's a good question.
Yeah, I, I think since I was young, I was always interested in the subject line math.
And then I really like to know how things work.
And specifically when I approach when I approach a new object, I will I will ask about how so how does that make sense?
How does that come into play? And yeah, through throughout my educational journey, I like a lot of hands on type of experience.
So I like, I like chemistry, I like math, I like experiment.
And yeah, that's pretty much I knew that I would I would do a science degree, science based degree.
And so yeah, I, I chose to do, to be really specialised in medical imaging and radiology science from my undergrad in when I was back in Taiwan.
And that was, that was at that time a I wasn't really sure about the decision at that time because I,
but I knew very well I want to do in the medicine related type of sciences, either radiology.
I applied to pharmacology as well.
There's another called, I think it's biochemistry, and I applied for a medicine degree, but obviously I didn't get it.
Yeah, at that time you can apply to six when I was back in time.
One choosing to do a degree in in medical science and I got full scholarship for the for the radiology science degree.
And so I got so I chose that.
So yeah, that was, that was a three year very hardcore science course and then the very practical, very practical oriented.
So the, the fourth year is very practical because we do internship actually at sites in hospitals.
So at that time I was at the National Time University Hospital for the fourth year of my undergrad.
And yeah, we, I basically shadow our Radiographers onsite and we,
I was running through various departments of the Mini in diagnostic radiology and another one is nuclear medicine and another one is
our radiation therapy disability and the treatment side and the others that bits and pieces like ultrasound and then dental X-ray in,
so doing X-ray and MRI and.
Yeah, so that's, that's one of the things that's really I found a really interesting back in Taiwan we do various modality so I can run,
I can run ultrasound, I can run CT, I can run X-ray, dental, X-ray, MRI, and this therapy size, the lenient accelerator.
Yeah. This is like high, high energy machine. Yeah.
So that's a that's an interesting bit. I was in, I believe here in the UK people probably choose to be specialised to a specific type of modality.
Yeah. Yeah. Radiological signs.
And then when I was, when I graduated from, I finished my clinical training and get back I got the national exam which is basically you,
you qualify to be a radiographer to be able to work as a radiographer.
Um, yeah, that's the national exam.
So I finished exam and, and started thinking about I actually really wasn't sure that I wanted to start working clinically.
So I decided to apply to various universities and,
and at that time I was really interested in radiotherapy in the treatment side specifically that comes out from a radiology degree.
So I applied to six universities in the UK to do a master's degree.
And yeah, at that time I didn't, I really wasn't pretty much hope into like with I'll get into to Oxford and I would just since I'm preparing myself,
just submit an application to Oxford and then in.
And I accept it and I was interested in the time was actually a lunar New Year.
I got the information saying that, Hey, you're accepted to do a massive program in in, in Oxford.
And like, I was in a car with my parents or just like, shouting in the car or so.
Happy. Yeah. Yeah. So I decided to study a little bit more.
So I came to Oxford in 2018. And that was a degree in radiation biology.
So it's, it's, it's far more, I would say, niche and specialised because you kind of look at a combination of biological science and physics together.
And yeah, and that in the program itself,
I could also feel was a very multidisciplinary team and multidisciplinary cohort and I was the only Asian
student within a cohort and all the elbows had like they were either European or an American student.
And my understanding at that point of time, that specific program was also like very, you know, like there were very few Asian student before.
Um, yeah. So I joined and most people, most other people do biology and I did like more like physics and math type of degree as undergrad.
So people came with a different background. It was six of us.
We were super, super tied. We worked together. We travel together.
Yeah. And I yeah, that's, that's my, that's, that's at that time I, I really enjoyed my master's,
you know, So was that was mostly a taught program or did you do some research.
Yeah. So it was a 13 month program.
So you, we get taught for the first two terms and then the last ten.
I mean, then second half of the second term. In a last term we did a short project and research project.
So at that time I was really lucky to be to be part of the medical physics group in, in the oncology department.
And I was I was supervisor was Franklin the it was Belgium.
He left Oxford after after I graduated from my master's degree.
So I did did a research project with them, specifically looking at a type of technical, stereotactic sterile, static radiotherapy.
Yeah. Yeah. It was roughly like a six months period of time.
And we, we will write up our thesis, our dissertation, and then do a viva.
Yeah. So it's very compact our a really stressful degree actually, I have to say it was, it was very intense but also fun.
It was probably the best year of my life here in Oxford.
Yeah, Yeah. So that's about me. And then after I graduated from my master's degree, I wasn't I wasn't really sure what to do.
I was lost. I was the definition of lost. Most of also like in the cohort most of my other peers,
they went back to the US to start their medical degree medicine degree, which is interesting to know actually.
Yeah, they, they,
they have a first degree and then to do a medicine degree and then the other two had all got like Ph.D. position lined up before they even graduated.
So I was the only one who left with like no job.
No, no for the plan. I was really, really, really lost.
And did you go home at that point? I went home, yeah.
I went home. And during a junction when I was when I was when I submitted my dissertation and waiting for my viva.
So I came back for my viva. So then towards the end of 2019.
Towards the end of 2019, yes. Yeah. At that time.
Yeah. I finished my Viva in September and then, and then I went back home and came back for the graduation in November.
Right. Yeah. So it was very end of 2019. Yeah.
And they came back for the graduation and that time my visa sort of allow me to stay all the way into March 2020.
So there was a grace period and so I utilised those period to just start to find jobs, find an internship, find a new life opportunities.
Yeah. And then I came in contact with perspective. I approach perspective and I ask them if I can do internship with them.
And yeah, they, they saw, they saw my background was like, okay, you can come and do internship this.
Yeah. So, so you were just I think I think what Pancho told me was that you, you were planning to do a piece.
I was planning, yeah. So I was fine in finding, like, either internship as a.
It is like an interim option. But I also was like trying to apply to like many different Ph.D. positions I got into to the oncology Ph.D. in oncology.
Yeah, I did so, but then there was no funding.
I'd say I didn't carry on an internship was became indigent, became available.
And so I decided, okay, that's also a good opportunity for me to gain some industry experience and really try to like,
do busy life work work, you know, as opposed to just study.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think we've got so we've got and that was going to take you through to March, was it?
Yeah. Yes. Through to March. Take me through to March.
But then of course, as we all know. So can you remember when you first heard that there was a nasty respiratory infection spreading in China?
Yeah. We came to realise that was going to have a bit of an impact on your life.
It was. I was. I really wasn't sure how to respond at that time because so I just started my internship and I started to get to know about like my,
my colleagues and then my manager here and perspective and, and there were so many things to learn when you first join an organisation.
There also are lots of policies to read. And yeah, so it was a very like I was trying to absorb as much as I can.
And when I first heard about the outbreak, I was, I was really not sure how to respond.
I didn't necessarily worry about that, honestly.
I was just really focusing on like starting off properly for my for my for my career at that point of time.
So I really didn't think that much when I first hear about Outbreak.
And it was things started to became really, really weird in March 2020, I believe in March 2020.
And we had a company meeting where Banjo, which is our CEO,
he just brought us to the to the to the boardroom and then tell everybody the next day on a Wednesday, everybody go home.
Everybody work from home. And everybody didn't know how to respond.
The team like some of the team, because I was a very like hands on involved team.
Like we we had physical equipment where we store on here on onsite in the lab and we need to like physically come in to transport them.
And at that time everybody was like scramble trying to find a way to make things work.
And I was I was I was the intern at that time.
There was still a lot of operational procedures that I didn't know, so I was really freaked out.
I was pretty much just being blank and then trying to see like, what I can do, what, how I can help, so I can help.
I start I here a little bit there A little bit, Yeah.
Um, it wasn't pretty frightening at that time, but the hope is that was going to run out at the end of March.
Is that right? Yes, yes, yes.
He was going it was about to run out. But luckily at that time I was able to like to extend with a different relative visa, which is quality of life.
And that's specifically for an internship for people to do an internship here in the UK.
Yeah. So that that got extended. So it was, yeah, I was very lucky in that sense to be able to, to do that.
And I was really grateful that perspective at that time helped me out to do that.
Yeah, because I mean, would you have been able to go back to Taiwan at that stage or was it there had flights going?
Yeah, At that time when I was monitoring, I've seen I've certainly found it impossible to go back on many because the the the the cost of the
flight is just so much it's really not like some affordable for someone who's just started their career,
barely have any saving earning an individual salary will be able to afford.
So that's that's really unreasonable. And another thing in my mind about time, I knew that I just started I just started my career.
Do I throw away my career? Potentially, because you never know how how long the pandemic, how long and as as now is.
Now that I know it was a really extended impact. And at that time, if I was really thinking, do I throw my career away?
Or do I do I chose to stay on the safe side.
So, like, I was worried about that. Like my career would just stop my career here and you can just stop.
And also, I was I was like, financially not possible to I do I came from from the U.K. So it was kind of it
was kind of like a in a way of an easier decision that I just chose to stay.
Yeah, I didn't I didn't second guess to that or whether should I go now, that type of thing.
I was also really worried about my future at that point of time.
Yeah. So the internship was extended.
Was extended. Yeah. Yeah.
And you must have begun to feel more comfortable around the company and read all the operating procedures and all the rest of it.
I did. And, and I. And I was. And where did you find your niche?
In the company. I really. I wouldn't say I have a niche in and company.
Not necessarily, but things started to change at the point, I believe in May 2020 or like maybe mid April, early May 2020,
at a time perspective and start to set up a study called the Call, the scan, which is now called the the long COVID study.
And at that time we want to see like the organ impairment through the effect of COVID.
So we basically scan do an MRI scan.
The extent is protocol for for supposedly COVID COVID cases at that time.
So, yeah, that study was set up and it was it was a Pacific funded study and we decided to do that.
And it was it was a it was a type of a project where nobody really knew how the long term plan is going to be.
Um, but we did it anyway. We thought that like, hey, we are, as it were, medical technology company, we can do something to help.
And we had the capacity, had the skillset to be able to support this type of research.
So that study got set up really quickly and I was, I had a radiographer qualification back in Taiwan.
And so at that time, apart from just my internship like original role in it as a intern and the imaging applications team,
I was brought up to the study team to support the scanning of the patient and it came in almost to me had like,
I just feel like this is like a flashback and like it was an opportunity for me to really support
and support as in the general population with a skill set that I that I had acquired prior,
before I came to Oxford and I, and it was at the point where I had like this,
this phase of my phase of my life, where I was so unsure about where I'm going to go next in terms of career.
And so that study almost came in, almost came into like, I feel like you saved my life to, to, to save me from having to make a really hard decision.
Yeah. And so I joined a team and then I just started to scan patients non-stop.
So talk me through how that happened. So did you did was the diagnostic centre that there is here now in the spectrum offices.
Not that that hadn't been set up with. No, that hasn't been set up at that.
So where were you doing the scanning. Yeah. So it was, it was really interesting.
So the scanning was, was done by there is a truck basically contain a big magnet,
an image scanner within a truck that is put into the to the, to the car park of the building at the back of the building.
And we had that scan as well. We just sit there and people and then we design, we sort of work around the building.
We design a route where people will be coming in from one direction and going out from the other direction.
And it was really lucky for us because the ground floor, it was pretty much empty at that time.
And so we can we can at people from the front and then look them out from the back and come into the truck where they did the scan and go out
from the other side of the truck towards the other direction and then come into the building to take their blood and then exit the building.
And so there's this almost a one in, one out that we sort of utilise what we had at that time.
And these were people who had recovered from COVID.
Yeah. So they have ongoing symptoms or were you just looking at anybody who'd who had recovered from COVID?
Yeah, So it was a very early stage at that time in 2020.
So we before there was there's like specific test or like quick antigen testing coming in.
Yeah, it was about the, the GP, like the doctors, they, they will assign the symptoms,
they will so will look at symptoms and at the time we, we, we qualified.
I wouldn't say qualified, we include patients where they had like proper How does it like GP diagnosis say okay this is likely,
this person's a likely a COVID case.
Yeah. And then they, they are brought into the inclusion, they can be included to the study at that time.
But then they had, they were over the acute phase by the time they came to see, you know, so we actually,
we actually scanned quite a lot of people who are who they, they still had difficulty breathing, have difficulty walking this.
This is because it was actually quite big. They had to walk along the way to to complete the whole study.
We actually scanned quite a few patients. They would describe their symptoms.
And it was it was just really painful to to to see them had to go through go through that.
But the antigen tests come coming into play. And then we were able to, like, use test results.
So we did a protocol amendment on the cover scan study and therefore we we will be was
able to be confident that all the patients we all scanned were all COVID patients.
But this is this doesn't say that what we did before was was not truly right.
It but it was because we didn't have like tangible measure to do the best you could do.
It was the best that we could do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, so that was we pretty much scanned COVID patients and with a very extensive protocol and, and you were the the main patient facing person also.
They are so the the study team they were it consists of quite, quite a few different people.
We had met the research nurse and we also had radiographer was also like the receptionist, the administrative side.
So the team, the whole core team were patient facing and now I'm just part of them and I'm actually like the junior side of, of, of part of them.
They were very experienced at that time. So I was lucky.
I was able to, to learn how to, how to properly receive patients, check their safety check if they are eligible.
Make sure they are they're safe on the scanner and make sure they are safe on the road to a different station.
It was an amazing experience to to be able to learn, but also scary and tiring and that at the same time.
Yeah. So how long a day were you doing?
Yeah. So the the scan started all from of the earliest was six was in the earliest was before 8:00 and then we usually finished until sometime late.
Is 730 in the evening. Yeah.
And you every, every day we would need to, we would need to shut up,
shut down the scanners without as takes quite a bit of time to read and then sub and the most tricky part to run a COVID study for to,
to run a scan for COVID patient is that you have to clean like very thoroughly during each visit.
And it was really tricky.
And so we need to find specific equipment that wouldn't wouldn't now wouldn't interfere with the magnetic field that comes out from the MRI scanner.
And we need to use this equipment that really clean in water.
So it was it was a bit hilarious. Now, looking back.
Yeah, but hard work and just like a kind of machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you, you, you rotate cases like one one at a time.
And the most we can do was a patient at that time for one day because he was,
it was a 40 minute scan and depending on how well the how will the patients feel about like being been in the scanner in the set up.
So it is actually quite, quite time consuming.
So the most we could do was probably eight people,
some for occasionally we will we will extend to till late in night to help finish the, the, the demand.
But Yeah. Mm. Yeah. It was like that we had, we had.
We have three radio, two radio before they started off, which was my most senior colleagues at that time.
They started off and then I joined and then we brought up a few other people to help support the demand.
Yeah. Mm hmm. And just to go over it again, I mean, I did talk to them about this,
but the the point about the cover scan technology was that you were essentially scanning the whole patients,
basically the whole so, you know, the whole torso.
So we as we scan from the from the how to so you can see from the neck all the way down to almost covering their knee.
So basically the whole torso like the abdominal and and chest region of the patient.
Yeah. And then the software part of it was was looking at six organs.
Yeah. Yeah. So we have heart measurement. We have heart metrics.
At that time long was was relatively new that that's also like a new method of really to start ramped up pancreas, liver and kidney kidneys.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
These five yeah yeah, yeah.
Perspective started off as a like a very specialised name in liver.
Yes. Technology. But the at the R&D side of prospecting,
we always have people from their life from various different background who they used
to look at either cardiac like the heart or they used to look at kidney disease.
And so at that time people was being really creative to support new support, new metric, new analysis that came in during the cold, wet time.
Yeah, it was a stressful period for the whole organisation and people were people were really helping each other out.
Yeah. So as well as collecting data that hadn't been collected before, the, the software itself was evolving, it was involving.
Yeah. And yeah. And to a degree really it really just sort of let us know how much we could do as an organisation and to extend.
They also like, creates lots of innovation. Yeah.
And also like because the way people work let everybody work remotely.
It also creates new, new a new type of collaborative procedure.
Yeah. Among the group. Yeah. It wasn't it was actually at some point very productive.
We would everybody was working from home at that time.
Yeah. The. Oh yes. Okay. So the I mean, you were obviously here with the truck.
I was here with the truck. It only all your. Yeah. The rest of the team.
Yeah they were, they were away. Yeah. So how often did you link up with them on a virtually.
Yeah. So we have, we have weekly meet weekly and then we will update each other on the, on the issues on site and the coordinators,
there will be coordination sites who actually we receive patients information,
screen them and give them information on like when to arrive at the site.
Yeah. So we will have like weekly meetings with them and have an update about each like specific area on the on the study.
Mm hmm. Yeah. And the analysis side of the cover scan study, that happens in parallel as well.
But but they have their study, which I wasn't necessarily been part of.
Yeah. Mm hmm. And how long did this intense period last?
Oh, I can't remember. Intense period.
It had always been quite intense. Okay. I mean, did it go over into 2021 or was it just.
Yeah, it was it did go over into time. So the conversation started formally finished at the very close to the end of 2021.
Oh, right. Yeah.
Very close to the end of 2021 to, to, to basically make sure that okay we, so we set out by the number of patients that they would need to,
to make it, to make it statistically power enough for us to make judgement.
So like the whole recruitment and finalising analysis was probably done in late 2021 and the intent period was, was probably throughout 2020.
Through all 2020 was the whole, the whole period was very intense.
And so once the study was was completed, what was your next move?
What was our next move? Yeah.
End of 20. Well I was really hoping to, to start my PhD. So alongside running is called the scan.
I was applying to Ph.D. position and I got into the engineering for the engineering department from Oxford.
And but then in 2020, 2021, I couldn't start at that time.
So I kind of just pushed that aside, which, which it honestly was.
I was really lucky because in, in Oxford they allow you to do that for a year.
So I was, I was able to do that. And then, then I just focussed on supporting like the existing work,
like the backlog actually type of responsibility imposed by the original team, which was image implications team.
Yeah. So at that time I was supporting and writing up documentations and these documentations are,
and specific protocols that's set up on a trial case is only trial.
When, when I say trial it means that clinical trials. Yeah.
And so each of these clinical trials they want a set of guidelines, a set of protocol, a set of image and acquisition instructions.
So I would, I will be tailoring those instructions based on the trial requirement.
Yeah. So that was like the technical writing side of, of my, of my role at that time.
Yeah. And it was, it was honestly also a very valuable skill to have, which I didn't necessarily get taught back at school.
And so that was very hands on and very real world experience.
Yeah. To be able to support and technical documentation and with so many different variations across trials,
we kind of need to be very creative with the way that we write documentation.
So we adopt new software and actually learn different type of structuring techniques.
So it was a very like software based technical and then knowing understand
how to utilise databases in that case and also do proper version control of,
of the documentation. So that was, that was relatively new to me at that time.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I basically the whole year of 2021 to 2020 and 2020, I was focusing on supporting the technical documentations for the image applications team.
Yeah. And so you got a place to do a PhD.
Yeah. In engineering. So had you changed your thinking because I mean, when you were originally going to go for one, an oncology in oncology,
what was the I had you already sketched out what you thought the problem you were going to
investigate was and did that change feel that the engineering place or was it like the,
the, the question of like this study, the topic of the research?
Yes. Yeah, it did change along the way. And it wasn't necessarily just about like insurance.
The change of interest on my, my. And I was also like considering the fact that like my supervisor would, who I, who I was was a doing my master's.
He left Oxford. Yes. And I and I thought about and I and I had like advice from the senior scientist and also my supervisor here in perspective.
And I sort of asked them, like, what would be the good research topic to do further down the line?
And so they kind of shape my research interest in a bit.
Yeah, yeah. Um, but what made me chose to apply to engineering it was because I was specifically really interested in in this man, this person's work,
which my current supervisor, Daniel Botha in IBM, the Institute of Biomedical Engineering,
I was really interested in his research, so I so I approached him.
I wrote my proposal, had a few. Discussions with him.
And we continue to do that almost through our 2021 to 2022.
Yeah. And and yet he was he was also a very supportive person who sort of like carried me,
carry me through the the last bit of pandemic and also like carry me where I was probably second year into my career,
wasn't really sure what I was supposed to do in terms of being a scientist.
So like, he he gave me a bit of guidance along with all the colleagues here.
Yeah. And of course, I mean, perspective has quite strong links with the engineering department.
It does. Yeah, it does. It does. It really does.
And then, and then that's probably why it's become and became into.
So what, what is your thesis topic or to what. Yeah. So currently.
Yeah. So my, my thesis topic is hopefully using Bayesian network to support the decision making on liver cancer primary liver cancer.
And now in first year in the the research focus is gearing towards the treatment selection side.
So yeah. Can you explain that to someone who doesn't have a background in statistics?
Yeah. Yeah. So in in liver cancer.
So the treatment, there are many different options for treating liver cancer, primary liver cancer.
You can do you can do surgery, you can do transplant.
You can also do something called ablation, which is sticking a rod into and then basically burn the tumour cells out.
Ablation and some other thing called embolisation.
So you sort of like use like this little adenoma beads to block out the, the vascular, the other vascular structures for, for the tumour.
And there's also radiotherapy which is using radiation to treat the tumour.
So it's, so the, the, the field and the practice of liver cancer treatment is very, very, is very non standardised across the world.
And for these treatments specific for this disease we had guidelines in American has their own guideline, Europe has their own guideline.
Asia has a set of guidelines and within Asia they're also different countries has law, it has their own guideline.
So it's a very wide spread field.
And the tricky part is there's no way to properly compare which one is more effective than the other.
And when it comes to treatment, there are many other options that came into play in maybe other factors that came into play.
Then just the then just the how to say the patients diagnosed it results.
So be also comes with like if if they if they will respond well to the treatment.
If these patients has like enough financial support to support them to be able to go through the treatment.
Yeah. Or that complications that might come in to come into play.
And so it's very it's very messy as a result.
And so my my research really is about using patient to be able to make these type of comparisons more tangible, more effective.
So you're collecting data from health systems across from health and not necessarily across the world,
but like currently, we currently we have quite a few data.
So that is isn't in perspective and that's collaboration with like across the UK.
And there's some data, some in Singapore, some in the US,
but I wouldn't say it's very widely covered like all over the world, but it's a good coverage is a good starting point.
So it's essentially a, it's a data analysis. Yeah, it is a very data analysis intensity.
Yes. And they let you slide over they Bayesian networks.
Yes. I've already asked somebody to explain what making approaches approach yourself.
But it's it's it's to do with probability.
Yeah. It's to do with probability. Yes. Exactly. That's that's a good way to put it.
Yeah. That's the core actually the core of, of Bayesian is all about probability.
It's a particular way of looking at probability. Yeah. Yeah.
A different way than what people usually do to look at statistics.
Yeah. It's a very distinct type of approach.
Yeah. And what you hope will come out of this is some kind of clearer idea of the treatment approach.
Is that what happens with particular kinds of patients. Oh yes, that's, Yeah.
Yeah. So that's, that's the goal. That's a goal.
And I, and I and I have good level of support from a senior position and uh, who utilise that technique.
And I had good support from, from like my current supervisor and also had good support in terms of data here and perspective.
So hopefully we can come up with something that can really make the treatment selection site very personalised,
geared towards the patient and currently really,
really what I think will be the immediate next step is to hope that there will be some collaborating doctors actually in the clinic.
They are, they're happy to like help me, you know, really validate the technology, you know.
Um, and, but you're still working here.
It's the spectrum. How do you manage your time?
Are you doing that the full time or are you doing it as a part time?
So I'm doing it full time, but like, since I'm in the.
Team, which is a very research scientist type role.
And so that it didn't necessarily go over.
I mean, I mean,
the the the wide I guess doing a research unit person is that you can you can just read so much re really broad try and test things out as much
as you can and he in perspective the innovation team obviously we have objectives but like it's also very hard to say like it's very liberal.
Yeah I think it's quite academic environment.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah So, so yeah if you had fit in well so far and for the in terms of like how I manage my time,
I really don't know, I really don't know and still learning and probably the,
the Yeah, I wouldn't say I have a, I have a strategy to properly manage my time,
but I found if I schedule more things to do more of the various type of things to do, I get more productive.
Yeah. So that's, that's my approach.
Yeah. Mhm. Yes it is a lot of energy for that.
So just I'm just going back to how the the pandemic impacted on you run smoothly movie.
How did you feel about it as a disease? Did you feel personally threatened by the possibility that you might be infected?
Have you in fact had it? I did. I did get an infection and actually was so I get infected and it was 20 I think was 2022.
So you boys had a vaccine by then? I had yeah. I had like two or three doses of the vaccine at that time already.
And, and so I probably caught the strain, the Omicron variant at that time.
Yeah. I had the, I had the infection at that time but I before, before I even had my first vaccination,
first dose of the vaccination, I, I was, I wasn't afraid about the disease.
Honestly, my mind was not about my mind was not about making sure that I was safe.
I knew that I had the I knew that I had way to protect myself.
I wash my hands or like, never touch your faces.
And when we come in here to do cover scan, we get like proper scrub.
We're like, we were all covered, and I clean everything before I head back to head back to the house.
Um. And in my mind, I really wasn't afraid of the disease.
Yeah. Did you encounter and this might be a slightly difficult question, but I interviewed another East Asian Oxford researcher.
Right. And she encountered hostility early on in the pandemic from ordinary people in the street,
simply because of her East Asian looks and because she was wearing a mask.
Right. And I think there was a certain amount of prejudice early and early on that
people just automatically assume that if you looked as if you were Far East,
you must have COVID. Right. Did you encounter anything? I Oh, wait, actually.
So now I did. I did had had a bit of fear in terms of there were there were a lot of hatred and negativity
against the Asian looking Asian looking person wearing a mask in in the in society in general.
So I was I was quite wary of that. But, um, but I have to say in Oxford at that time.
Oxley itself is a very unique place you never really find.
And I think I think discrimination is very not tolerable in Oxley itself, or so I feel safe in a sense of being being Asian as a baseline.
And I was, I was also like just fully focussed on like trying to scan patients.
So I wasn't really quite wary of that, but say if I have some time that I, that I actually check about the news.
I was worried that I hey, so if I go outside of it, I will get discriminated, I might get hurt, I may, I might get stabbed somehow.
Yeah, but it was it was really just concern in the back of my mind.
Not necessarily I had experience in any of that.
So I didn't I didn't experience any of those hatred or racial discrimination.
So it was lucky. Actually, I was really lucky at that time. And also, was it hard being a long way from your family when this was going on?
It was hard, yeah, it was. I think Taiwan managed the pandemic.
It was it was majority Well, yeah, it was managing really well.
So in, in Taiwan, ah, wearing a mask is a necessary something that is just for disease, you know,
it's not like you, you wear a mask because you had a cold and you catch a flu or something.
No. Wearing a mask is fashionable, is who is cool to do.
And it helps to let block out some sunlight to like keep you like keep your skin a
little bit better or like make us make your face look smaller so it's fashionable,
like, and it's really, really acceptable. So yeah, you wouldn't worry about wearing a mask there at time one.
And that's probably why it's actually so, so easy to to control to control the disease back in time one.
And then another thing is we we didn't really get vaccine early on and the whole country understand that like it will probably be really challenging
for Taiwan to get vaccines production and manufactured being available to administer across to across the whole country just because of some,
you know, like global, you know, political geopolitical issues.
Yeah. So the so the CDC was was very, very aware of that and therefore that therefore like these type of policies in terms of
like being social distancing was pretty much just like obeyed by the citizens itself.
So you too worried about your family? I wasn't really worried about my family.
I wasn't really worried about my family because I knew that they they would they will control it properly.
Uh, at that point in time. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
They didn't get I know that. I recall they have had like four doses of vaccine until they actually get COVID.
Yeah. Yeah. So they had, they were reluctant to, to, to that extent.
Yeah. It was hard to be, to be away with, with family.
I was, but also because I had experienced things they very early on I was able to
explain to them of like oh how what how people respond in terms of symptoms and.
So it was it was in a way, it was in a way it like nice as a topic to talk about, you know what I mean?
Like communicable medicine expertise. I had some expertise.
Yeah. Yeah. I became I became popular within my family group in comes when it comes to COVID.
Yeah. Otherwise the whole thing, it was just like the only thing we talk about is just about food.
There's finally another topic we can talk about. Yeah. Mhm.
And, um. And what was your I mean what was your living situation and.
Yeah, but were you in a shared house. So were you by yourself or.
Yeah, I was, I was at the beginning.
I was live living in with the, with, with just one other person and I was my landlord and, and I,
and then I decided that like no I need to move houses because it's not really, not really nice to be living in that situation.
So I moved moved to further down the road and,
and having a house with another four people and that was also just happened to be what I could afford at the time.
So yeah, I moved, moved into that house and I would and I made this and I made them aware that I hey,
I'm, I'm part of this college study and they were okay with it.
And in fact, another person of of mine, another housemate of mine, she was the vaccine researcher at that time.
And so, yeah, it turned out to be a turn out to be really, really nice.
And uh, that I joined that house and it was, it was also a really good decision because it during the period of a very isolated time in COVID,
we as we as a house were very supportive towards each other.
One of the house my he, he worked at the Board Game cafe.
So we will have the opportunity to play board games at home.
So it was a very good social support at that time.
Um, yeah. So living situation was okay. I was, I was careful most of the time just trying to clean up before before I get back home.
Yeah. Yeah.
And they were really consider the considerate um, I was really lucky that, that, I mean the work itself you said was intense and and quite stressful.
Yeah. Yeah. Do you think the fact that you were working on something that was important,
that was contributing to our understanding of this disease helped to support your own well-being?
Yeah. Yeah, certainly. I think. I think that was a special thing to do.
I think that was very important to do. Yeah.
And. And I knew it. Not everybody will be part of the, we'll be part of this experience.
Um, I was in a, in a way now, looking back, really proud that I had made a decision to, to stay honestly.
Mhm. Yeah. So I think we're nearly at the end of the time.
Um, has your experience of working through the pandemic changed your attitude or your approach to your work and your plans for the future?
Um, probably yes and no.
I think I'm consciously did changed the way that I work.
I became really flexible and became okay with things going wrong.
But no, but no, because I really was in early on in my in my career, I knew that there will be changes.
So, yeah, I guess it is a yes or no together.
Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. But I have to say regardless it was a it was a good experience to have,
although like it's a it's a huge part of my twenties gone socially but like it's, it's, it's good to.
For my early career I would say so and I said I should last this before you've
now had an experience of what it's like working in a commercial company.
Yeah, but also in an academic environment. Yeah.
Which way do you think your career will go in the future?
Will go in the future? Um, I'm, I'm leaning more towards at a corporate setting and in an industry setting.
Um. Mhm.
Yeah. I'm more leaning towards that. And actually this is not necessarily because uh.
It's not necessarily because.
Because my experience in in perspective and changed the way that I think it's probably because that's just my nature is when I Yeah.
Growing up because I knew I am someone who really like to get engaged.
People talk about like big stuff, talk of all the impactful stuff and had the opportunity to really make things like come into play.
Uh, yeah, that's just, that's just probably based on me, personality wise and strength wise.
I think industry will be a good fit for me. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, I very much. Thank you.