Right, so, um, so what I've done with the book is for each person, I've done sort of biographical details,
and then I try to select an area which I think would be a particular interest to Oxford.
And so I sort of feel happy to talk about the Institute of Molecular Medicine, that,
first of all, sort of what made you interested in haematology or pure chance, really?
I had to I was one of the last to do national service after the, um, uh,
they used to let doctors finish the clinical training and then do their national service.
And for some reason, I think they lost my address.
So I didn't even get the usual call about doing the house job.
And so I thought, well.
A bit pompous to remind them, so I took charge of cleaning house office a job in Liverpool and decided to have the membership.
They then did catch up with me during and after about six months, and they said I could have one go at the membership and just through in the home.
And we got the membership on the way to being in their there.
And then I volunteered to do my national service in the UK because I'm terrified of flying and insects and snakes.
And so they sent me to Singapore, typical army,
because that had no experience in paediatrics and they were in deep trouble and this huge paediatric ward in the military
hospital and looked after the kids of diverse Commonwealth forces and the Gurkhas and all that the war was going on in Malaysia.
So I know that it wasn't just me who got to the children's ward for the first year and said,
I'm one of the I grouped into a child who is what turned out to be thalassaemia after me.
And so I really switched on an interest in genetics and blood disease.
So I went off and got training and I was straight after the.
I kept pushing general medicine all these miles between the states I went to, Johns Hopkins and Liverpool had a connexion because Cyril Clark,
who is the professor of medicine and one of the first things after the setting up to realise
that genetically he went into genetics because he was healthy breeding butterflies,
and then said that the genetics and started a kind of a partnership with Johns Hopkins would take the famous German guy,
got Hopkins and one of the founders of medical genetics. So I went I went over to Hopkins and spent four years,
the one couple years in genetics and a couple of years I was born in haematology and was also a part time appointment in biophysics.
And they were trying to learn some protein chemistry and some.
What do you think of Johns Hopkins? I mean, the kids my age, I think he was one of the founders of the Johns Hopkins.
Yeah, um, well, Hopkins was, of course, the first modern medical school.
So it was the model that Flexner faced with all these reforms of the medical state,
um, largely because I think the founder, um, had spent time in Germany.
They had already got these kind of strong patients based in medical education and training.
And it was in the late 50s, early 60s.
It was, um, it was very good.
Um, it was a bit like Oxford, extremely self-satisfied.
And it's a really good looking and probably at that time, not as great as it had been.
They had these great figures like Blakelock in charge of the first kind of heart operation,
congenital heart technicians and that kind of thing, and then knows about himself and the founders of those early three big names in America.
But, um, and then it had this ring back in the 60s.
I think it's probably one of the top medical schools in the States.
And, you know, I was and I'm on the external review board for Harvard Medical School, and I was there last week reviewing them and.
A couple of people from Hopkins were there. I think it's going very strong.
But it was pretty much in the 60s, early 60s,
a funny mixture of chemical and science and various young and being rather overt, kind of rather overstating it.
So it's kind of the level of research and clinical teaching was actually as well.
The, um, the best clinical teachers were the guys who came in at gun rights in the hospital.
They were in private. She wanted to teach.
And but, um, the kind of students, you know, the clinical the research that's dropping them, you've got a quick rejuvenation.
In the late 60s, when I was going to ask you, who is your most memorable patient?
Would it be that thalassaemia that you.
We knew that there was going to be no facilities for. Transfusion and that she was going to survive very long and then they had this wonderful
picture of the Lady Mountbatten with their own lady back in State of the Union.
So roadmap. Wonderful, wonderful. This picture was taken by local press photographer.
And I'm sure it was the last photograph of my wife.
We had a local Indian artist to make a big drawing on the ground.
What I learnt was a story of disappeared in the press many years later, completely wrong.
Know all about this girl with leukaemia. And so I wrote the story and then read a very nice letter back.
That was just before I already blew him up. But the more I got there, they sent me a copy of the picture.
Recently, I was writing a small history of the thalassaemia and beautiful picture.
So I suppose she was the patient that started me off that research.
Of all the things you've done in your career, what are you most proud of?
I know this place, perhaps this place.
Um, yeah, I think this is going quite well. The.
Probably this place and the the road we've done in lots of years in setting up all these partnerships in the developing country and my party,
I mean, in my own mind, when we started these partnerships in nineteen seventy nine, which leads to go to places like China and India,
I think I think that is a successful model in an economic way to help the developing countries right now.
So something like that. And then.
Oh yes. I was going to ask you about the taste, but let's that's how did that come about when I came about?
That gives you a vivid memory, because I've only been in office for about two weeks.
And then that strange secretary,
because I realise inherited from my predecessor who came in the office of the old Rackley for when he was a young man wants to see you.
You better see him quickly because you think he's been in charge a bit on this coming from Liverpool, nail nails, as usual.
So anyway, he did look a bit depressed as he was a university press and.
A staff member doesn't exactly he was one of the editors anyway, and he said that they just published,
I think it was the 13th edition that checked the prices of textbooks much.
And it did come out to a rather lukewarm reviews, to put it mildly.
So he banged some of these reviews on the desk and the first reviews in the Annals of Internal Medicine.
And this was a review that said, when I opened this textbook, I noticed that the senior editor is a physician to her majesty the Queen.
Have you read the book? I only saw God Save the Queen and help.
The reviews are all about that. And it was quite clear this is not going to be a bestseller.
So he said that they just really needed a new textbook and, I don't know, stupid enough.
I talked to John Ledingham, and the only thing that the idea,
any idea directed me was that if we could produce a textbook of medicine that was much more global coverage rather than the standard Western.
And so we got hold of David Rowe. You had a lot of tropical experience and the three of us did it.
But I think it was I mean, the question of whether there was a place for journalists.
I mean, it was. I think some of the other reviews of the and maybe the first position and
Reiser and Joni Mitchell when she was the first professor of medicine not to.
So, so, so dinosaurs. I think it is biological knowledge on the minds of dinosaurs.
They said that they died because they fell under their own weight, which is not exactly what happened as far as I know.
But and these books will do exactly this. And then there is no place really for walks of that type anymore.
But I always thought that was really because I think if you practising any speciality in medicine, we do need a general guide.
Um, anyway, it went OK and it's still going, but they're revising it online and you know,
things like I got an email from them just this week saying they don't think revising
a lot of the chapters for online versions anymore has had an intellectual appeal.
I'm sure, because students like to say that it's the one thing that they're to to.
So I think it is in practise disseminated news.
The big problem is caused in the first two editions, I think.
Well, you had this the British government had this kind of aid system,
which was a system whereby one could get books printed for reduced price and dissemination in the poorer countries.
That programme finished. So I think we got to watch the first and second edition.
Gone that way, but after that, it's finished. And it's very difficult now because we knew this was a major textbook, I think, on thalassaemia.
And the fourth edition that came to.
2001, when I went back a couple of years ago, what was then Blackwells, the fifth edition,
I said it would only do it if they would produce a cheaper copy from the developing countries because that's where it's needed.
It's very kind. They told me, why don't you do that before 80000?
And she's still thinking about it is very difficult.
I've got a copy of your book, and I've also got is this six edition, which 96 one.
And I find it fascinating to see, obviously, what things they cover.
And, you know, the pages and pages on TV. We see this most recent, um, you know.
Yes. Yes, you've got. And the original.
And of course, the Johns Hopkins people read the issues that they put together and seen a copy of that recently,
McGee, how Harvey did it, I and a couple of others.
Now, I was going to ask you about your society leaving do about the money for the hospitals in Sri Lanka.
Instead of your retirement policy, I wasn't the only one.
Know, I was a trustee of the wealth and I try for about 10 years.
And when you finished the well, they gave you a rather splendid dinner.
And I would like Michael dextrously. And I would suggest to him at the time and I told him that I wanted to leave him alone if they
could give me a bit of money towards building this treatment centre for the kids in Sri Lanka.
So they gave me a bit of giving.
I was given the time that I way you can do a lot in Sri Lanka for that amount.
So I found a retired architect and former British architect who said you would do it for nothing.
And so with the welcome that we got off the west.
But it was the welcome. Oh, right. Yes, yes. You know, we said we just forgotten how much money it was.
I mean, obviously, this programme worked and it was a few thousand, right?
Yes. Yes. And you still go back to Sri Lanka quite often.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm going back. But I'm on average about four times a year.
And it started really by chance I was giving a lecture that must really be just like these kids die,
a paediatrician only paediatrician who try to set up the new treatment for them.
And then they sit in the middle of the island for poor neighbourhoods that could negative stereotypes and high spirits.
Had the disease. And she asked me to go and help them out.
And so I.
We've got a lot of samples back to find out what type of disease is somehow and I started going at first year with awful people that
had no facilities and the kids used to come in for a transfusion and there was no work for the mothers news to lie on the floor.
They couldn't get the blood ready, so they had to spend the night being transfused.
Who? The patient population, obviously.
So we tried to fill in for the story, first, broke the story, and then the second floor.
For the older patients, the idea, the role of the patient through these very complicated set of cases,
so many different forms, different from treatment and then.
And then we train the boy here, we did this deal with me, but I didn't do that on this issue like disease problems.
And and then he went back and managed to get to know the British dead and to
give us the money to go with the Diagnostic Centre for DNA Diagnostic Centre,
not just the thalassaemia from infectious diseases.
So they've got to get it done and then gradually work just a national programme and screening programme or watch pretty slow.
And then with the war places we couldn't go to.
But now we've just done a complete set of. Twenty seven percent is on the island.
Seven thousand children face amazing diseases even on that relatively small island.
It's very patchy investigation. And so just checked in wanting to give you no idea that so much.
But know it has been an story.
Do you think is the life expectancy and improve it?
Oh, yes, yes, yes, very much.
And that's why my big problem has been that they have a kind of union this week to be in charge of the commission now that it's 40.
I mean, you know, it must be no overlap. The unions don't like it.
And so no training and paediatricians was OK, but it was never going to work out.
Any problem getting they have to be based on the British system.
They have these kind of call. If you help, if you have had recent college, you even don't have a college of pathology.
They have a college, haematology college or college of microbiology has five members and haematology about 12.
But college is not very effective.
You just have to break through it with the grade and go straight to work up to these kids to.
So there's quite a lot of people to wait to jealousy, the usual thing,
but probably if you imagine somebody from Sri Lanka coming in and telling you, you know, so, yeah, it's it's only natural, I think.
And things like blood transfusion and bone marrow transplants, is that easy?
Well, you know, they it's used a lot in many countries now, particularly marrow transplants.
If there's a compatible donor being fairly successful,
but they've not got the transplants to be achieved in Sri Lanka would be a lot of talk about it.
But they done some of the other places I've worked on in Thailand, for example.
There's a huge problem, but they have just fairly recently developed a mother's marrow transplant programme.
And certainly in India, there was a very good programme, a couple of very good programmes, but it's been a bit slow getting off the ground.
And it's only you know, it's only valuable if if they do have a day and by and large, they are really much more successful,
often early in life size, once the results decline quite dramatically in the older patients.
So it's not the answer, you know, and and what do you think will be pizza developments that thalassaemia?
Well, probably like a lot of single gene disorders.
I think I'm fairly confident now that gene therapy will be successful if it's been incredibly slow and has been unsuccessful.
Well, let me rephrase that. There's been one case where what's been done and the donor haemoglobin has been produced and at least to year.
But it's a funny case and I think about it.
But my guess is it goes to the French and got that system going quite well
for one of the genetic immune disease is known as the outbreak of leukaemia.
And the kids have been treated and they found this gene, that protein that moved in right next to a kind of oncogene.
And they did a very good job in sorting that out.
And to do the recent genes that are being portrayed, I know go kind of fail safe regions around them,
which make it very unlikely that they would, in fact, change was too high.
Yeah, but I think I think the secondary technical details are grossly underplayed in nature.
But it will happen. And it's just there's another big trial going starting earlier this year from the group in New York.
But it's great. I think people have grossly underestimated the complexity of sticking genes into people.
I mean, something in your area and they're really in the conventional.
Yeah, it's and it's looking quite promising.
Yes. And I suppose because the reality is. Yeah.
And you can also test to see haematology, you would lend itself to that,
knowing whether you've got success and the ability to study them and you can get.
I really it's not like having to put something in the living room or anything,
but there must be an inherent tension between having a disease that's common in less developed
parts of the world and having that technology to do things like bone marrow transplants,
or do you have to be in a much safer environment? You have got the resources to use them for safety.
The problem of knowing how to use things.
A unit such as yours must bridge that gap to a certain extent.
Well, we have to, and that's why we need lots of places.
We've really focussed on prenatal diagnosis because just simply the cost effectiveness of HIV and AIDS and the fact that it does give the family,
if they wish, on the certainty of knowing that child can explode and probably turn have not only one child.
That's been one of the tragedies in Sri Lanka, for example.
The first of all, however, due to genetic counselling, you cannot persuade Sri Lankan male to child any part of him.
It's always the woman who followed the family's journey to break up these very high suicide rate families and the counsellor and the principal,
actually, because they've got very few trained counsellors.
And that's been quite a big part of our effort in trying to improve the kind of social that to change.
And then in Sri Lanka, they were not allowed prenatal diagnosis yet.
It's not. It's interesting, I got to remember the Buddhists, by and large, accepted it, enjoy the same brand of Buddhism, but they say not true.
I think. I think what's happened in Sri Lanka is that Buddhists have been a bit of a Christian religion,
Jewish Catholicism, and they've pushed very hard against it and it's still not.
But it's now developed in most countries in Asia and huge effect on the raw numbers in place in the Middle East and the Muslim religion,
except for the. And the fascinating.
Talk to these people, I've been to several community meetings and listening to the Islamic view, which is a fantastic,
beautifully illustrated, potentially a dreadful day, but they believe that the soul enters the future thinking about 14 weeks, the breathing.
So if you go in before that and the benefit to the family, then we don't know.
What about any changes in medical school?
I mean, we just don't have anything interesting happening or anything.
I don't know. My overall view is that when I first came to the, um,
the clinical side of the Department of Medicine is really quite strong and decisive and clinical about both courageous, I guess.
And it was a little bit.
I'm not a little bit silly, no, but quite strong on the political side,
and then I was lucky enough to have a readership before I even got in and want to join a very strong teacher.
And what the findings seemed to me to be your this the research done.
So we started building that to go on to people in different fields from my own field.
And then the mostly came along and offered me a unit as a unit.
And it soon became apparent that medical research was going to take on more cellular and molecular biology.
A lot of these men were injured and people in the medical school constantly coming to
us to borrow equipment or was quite clear that there was a need for somewhere where
clinicians could get trained in this kind of technology and also a place where young
scientists wanted to practise something or their research could be in the medical direction.
And there was no way for that either.
So that's why eventually we went to the NRC and tried to what this building was originally set up shop corridors.
Who was that? People the geologists worked with sheep.
Extraordinarily, when I first came to the place was a ship building where Wellingtons, you know, we started in the real John Radcliffe in the area.
And the observatory used to carry these and this fire was stuck.
And then they built this building for it here.
And then for some reason, the university was going through another period of financial depression anyway.
So they couldn't afford to when he retired, they couldn't afford to live in the region and then they're going to just shut it down.
So I suggested that we try and develop a building with this type of work that we've done a strong accent really on training,
not making it too rigid in this kind of research direction, just using this technology.
And I went to the emergency and.
Jim James Jones was running them at that time, and he was very enthusiastic about this, but he didn't have quite enough money.
So they put in some money. And then we went to the University of Virginia and then we set up a two story building right at the last minute.
It was headed down to research funded.
So they'd like a bit of it. So they put in some money.
So that's how it all started. I think we come back to the medical school and I think the other interesting
thing was that we started this graduate programme and my last days and three,
that's been public service success when the graduate in three months.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. In fact, we had a lot to worry about and really very quickly.
And it's now when the price the.
Yeah. I mean the big problem here was, was with the with the reform and GMC reforms, they were obviously desperate for us to go and were,
I'd say, dilute the science a bit and make sure these kids were exposed to patients.
They one but private friends.
And, you know, it seemed to me that medicine was to this place for a diversity of medical students who will probably end with first degree,
a strong base in science, which we had some interesting discussions,
discussions, but I think we managed to compromise with them and the danger of closing the place now,
because it's expanded to a certain extent, it's not a large amount of 60 each year, which 30 in 2010.
And that balance might shift. It is going to be a good idea.
Yeah, yeah. But the the final on a school element, which I think is still recognised as being very important.
Yeah. You need to do this. I mean I, I know the external review board for Harvard Medical School.
I was there last week and the losses are really to remember the first degree.
And even the the in that sense it's rather similar.
But I think you would have been right there.
And then, of course, we're that as the research spread and be expanded, expanded you.
And so all in all, it a fairly successful and I think the medical sciences division is the biggest one and it's the size of it.
Last year there was absolutely no new.
I mean, they thought we were a complete idiot. So this is you know, we do the science and you do the clinical medicine.
Yeah, that's. It was amazing, but it was the same.
That wasn't unique to me when I came back to Liverpool.
They had no teaching in college and there wasn't a professor of physiology at
Liverpool who regularly discovered the gastro he has from the physiological blood.
But he told his people don't really trust me.
So it was pretty cool. So he had all my first three tapes and feedback.
That's not to say about the sort of scientific treatment to the present atmosphere right across the country, I mean, the division between the field.
So I think it's improved a lot.
What's interesting, reading Flexner, 100 years old,
to see how that to what extent we have held on to that in England as well as the United States and comparing it with Europe is quite interesting,
I think, because the German students that come to us see this as a major general,
to say that the clinical aspects of emotional and physical medicine, well, I think exclude those aspects of the United States.
And certainly when our elective students go to major institutions, they come back on their clinical skills, involvement with patients.
So that must be satisfactions at the bedside end of the bench to bedside and the bench.
And what we're preparing for the future is another matter.
I told you that. But at the year I've been doing the.
Master's course in the Harvard Business School at the same time.
And when I had my breakfast with them all these meetings, and I thought it was because they were all going to be administrators.
And so, you know, no, I didn't practise medicine in the States without having some proper training in business to make a big difference.
And is that so that they can go out and set up boring institutions in some ways and become independent?
Well, to some degree, they're good. They're very proud as [INAUDIBLE].
But you they've got the primary rate goes up your prime rate.
But in fact, it's kind of like just a big extension of the kind of office and know I'm real
good comes the concept of family doctors next year or any time criticising it.
But, you know, they're just generalists who work in offices and they call that primary care, which seems to me to be the same as, say.
And just the last thing the ladies have any projects happening in this institute I could talk about in the last year or to some of the projects?
Well, you know, the mixture.
These the. There you go.
And when I retired, then I would see a unit going under Douglas Haig and the military molecular biology,
and they and they are less politically orientated than I was.
But I mean, their major goal was to try to understand how basically they had the elements of the blood to form and the kind of
regulatory mechanisms in the formation of blood and that is being applied to certain forms of malignant disease.
Well. Some of the groups yeah, I think the the genetics with Andrew Wilkie has been extremely strong as well.
And they're continuing to try to understand the major through that and understand the genetic basis for some facial deformities.
Jose. I think that probably as good as anybody, you know, did not feel very, very good.
But then they're gone.
They're still the kinds of strong kinds of groups that work in various aspects of cancer.
Then the immunology group and Andrew MacMichael took over from the director of the institute.
And his group has been and still is very much involved with community AIDS, HIV.
And I think they've done a lot of really important fundamental work on understanding HIV of
Raksha immune system and the fact that he was the first interview in science last year.
It's nice to see that the group in here had the highest citation index and any.
More than all, these big American needs might be related to work on the board looking at things outside the European Union.
Oh, I think so, yeah. And particularly the relationship of HIV AIDS, tuberculosis.
And, you know, the other thing that's interesting, that's less it is more global we're looking at.
Yeah. Yeah. Because of the relationship to peripheral units based in the US.
Yeah. Well that's that's also been the same this we had have a very strong parasitology
group in here as well with this new poll and the link to Cambridge recently,
we're doing these big mapping of the genome to show the world that they can't afford in the laboratory back up for the people.
And and that will typically in Thailand.
And he joins us now from.
And there's also some very interesting work going on in the video, particularly in relation to malaria as well,
because iron deficiency is a huge problem in the developing countries, as you know.
And but resistant malaria makes it really very complicated to kind of manage on deficiency and that they've
been involved in some very important work suggesting that the body's response to malaria makes it.
This encourages the and absorption. And that's what you really need to do with these children in the developing countries,
is modify your periods of replacement to the low malaria transmission seasons and so on to get this type of thing.
A practical point of view. Very important. You know, just a few thoughts.
I think there's always the question is, can you think of anything else?
I think the idea was very appealing, but it has in general worked outwards and it's in its endeavour scientific.
And I would see your role in bringing together the clinical and scientific in setting up units such as the ones you Lanka as being a very important.
Is this a sort of combination of rigour,
but also an understanding of what's possible both within and I suppose if you have a good cadre of people who are clinically very.
Well trained, then you're more likely to get good results for the amount of money that you spent wisely,
if the critical underpinning is success, which lets the financial side of this is really very important to get this message over to a good one.
In fact, may maybe they're slowly getting it.
But if you throw these partnerships and you do have control over the difference
and throwing aid into a country and throwing aid to foreign governments,
I know what happens to a lot of that and places over there.
And we do have some control over the situation with the genuine partnership and.
And you can control the kind of cash flow in your life. And but they've done extremely well.
I mean, you don't want to live in a nation with this malaria programme.
And he's coming back to give the second Wetherall Lecture in May. That's right.
You have been delighted that you were able to come to the diary.
Well, and the other fascinating one is tuberculosis, because as he was mentioning, TB was an important component in this.
And it's hugely important to me. I feel it sort of knocking at the door.
And you hate seeing some of the cases in relation to my own HIV work in London to see the impact of this very,
very sick and the interplay of malaria with HIV and population.
And I think that's a very isolating. Oh, yeah.
The vaccine programmes here are. I haven't I haven't seen the latest reports of Adrian, and he didn't say anything.
I think they're going into the next stage of trance. Yeah, we'll be going into Q1 and I've done some early work.
I think we're going into human with with with the malaria vaccine.
And I think it started with TB. TB, yeah. It's promising early days, but I think will be on.
Yeah, well, there's all this noise made about a malaria vaccine last year, but we got to know that The Guardian had a piece of this meeting.
This was saying the scientists were in tears and on the Web, which really is this.
This is. You give me partial protection for up to six months, rather early days.
It's been a huge problem and I don't know anything else to say about the school
is the one very amusing story that you always tell about your appointment.
I don't know whether you want to go on record that, oh, you had to contact them.
Yeah, that's right. It really was bizarre in the sense that I got an invitation to come down here
and talk about this job and then I went back to it and it was a big set up,
actually. I mean, it's probably not publishable and it should dull the office.
This job, though, is much more or less without telling anybody.
And they go to Big Boss. And so they wanted to have a quick look at a few of the people.
And I was invited down you nothing. I told you I'd only been here one day trip with my parents as a kid.
But, um, so about a week after I've been down here, I got these phone calls.
And you were unanimously elected not to be a professor of clinical medicine.
Please give us an answer in 24 hours. So I did chat with my mates in the pool and decided they didn't seem to do better ones.
We didn't need to bring this research group to theirs to move.
And so I said, OK. And they said that well in advance to say I wouldn't be taking a job for 18 months, but.
Building on John. I have some say in what they're doing anyway.
I literally did not hear anything for a year and then I to tell you about it, at least to the vice chancellor who might be leaving.
And so I. I contacted his office and he said he knew Alex would become worried.
So you better find out if it's all a mistake.
Keep a place for you. So I didn't have the courage to ring them.
I got my dear little secretary, old lady, Mrs. Coughlin, and I say, bring them up.
Nice with you. She came back from the phone.
She's such a dear old character, the real Liverpool.
She was away and she came back. You can't go to.
I said, why? But what did they say?
Well, I said to them, Principal, you thought you been to that.
You were assured that nothing from me. And there was a long silence.
And then this woman came on the phone.
She says, Oh, my God. Um, what does he want?
It was announced in the Times, wasn't it? What more does he want?
I never had anything on paper all over the region.
Now, let me just tell you that Margaret Thatcher said, I have it in mind.
She had to. And that kind of language,
which is mind to put your name forward to the queen as though it would be quite easy for you not
to have a chance to get nothing from nothing in his office or the university or from you know,
it's not his thing. So there's no record of is that going to be at least two times in your life where you've taken
a deep breath and just gone or come on arrived and found that you were greeted with open arms,
open mouth to say, oh, no.
And my grief, my first reaching and walking up the long corridor in the right place in the moment circle with little man running out at me.
But I think I told you that before I turned right into the country.
And then my mind rushed out and said, You must be better off in the service.
Is your predecessor gave me space the.
And then I replied, Can I assume you're not going to take.
You don't mean I got it right.
You know, I didn't want to as I said, I'm sure I didn't write something, not realising and I'd just given away half my research.
Oh, good. He said and stumped off down the corridor. And then he turned round and he said, Oh, by the way, I should have introduced myself.
My name's Hans Krebs. And so indeed I remember the first story is Seven told me later that he was desperately worried about me coming in case he had.
Fascinating. This is fascinating to this, the old boy was.
Actually, not really doing very much, but he had this huge working,
so she had to be in the lab on Saturday and Sunday and in the end they were running a trying to keep him company.
Yes, that's true. I remember coming to the end of the corridor and only going up to the boards.
And there's always something going on in that little room with lots of glassware.
Right. So, you know, it's always somebody that was just paperwork and all of that now completely.
There was no stranger to get anything for the things people walked up cause.
And all the people who were looked up for your drummers training and teaching you is not isolated spot.
He's got what you need. I have great hope for.