1 00:00:01,060 --> 00:00:05,470 Hello and welcome to Regional Classics, a podcast from the University of Oxford, 2 00:00:05,470 --> 00:00:12,370 which reflects and celebrates the diverse voices of Oxford classicists past and present from different parts of the UK. 3 00:00:12,370 --> 00:00:19,780 All the while creating thought provoking conversations, breaking down barriers and showing that if you want to study the ancient world, 4 00:00:19,780 --> 00:00:27,430 any aspect politics, history, art, science, literature, culture and much more than you can observe. 5 00:00:27,430 --> 00:00:32,530 Classicists do not and need not come from only a narrow cross-section of society. 6 00:00:32,530 --> 00:00:36,740 This episode features three Oxford classicists from across the north of England. 7 00:00:36,740 --> 00:00:40,000 Joining me today to talk about their own pathways into classics, 8 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,590 their relationship with the ancient world and what we can all do to support and grow classics 9 00:00:44,590 --> 00:00:50,830 In the north are Christina Chui, a third year undergraduate classic student at Merton College. 10 00:00:50,830 --> 00:00:56,470 Originally from Newcastle upon Tyne; Amy Thompson, a former classics student at St Anne's College, 11 00:00:56,470 --> 00:01:01,420 is currently a philosophy postgraduate, originally from Oldham near Manchester. 12 00:01:01,420 --> 00:01:04,930 And Professor Llewelyn Morgan from St Helens in Merseyside, 13 00:01:04,930 --> 00:01:14,160 an alumnus of Corpus Christi College and currently a fellow in classics at Brasenose College, he's also the faculty's school's liaison officer. 14 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,930 The north of England has huge cultural, regional and economic diversity, 15 00:01:18,930 --> 00:01:25,320 and the four of us, I'm from the West Coast of Lancashire originally cover ourselves a huge range of that region. 16 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:29,220 But I think we're all united by a fascination in the ancient world. 17 00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:34,200 So, Cristina, where did that fascination with the world come from? 18 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:40,110 So for me, I remember the first time was actually in year 4 when we had a Greece day. 19 00:01:40,110 --> 00:01:47,460 And then the most vivid memory I have is the Olympic Games that we held in the afternoon when I was completely rubbish and lost everything. 20 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:52,080 But it was a good experience because I can remember it so vividly but formally, 21 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,250 I guess it would be in secondary school when I had the opportunity to study 22 00:01:56,250 --> 00:02:02,760 Latin first in year seven and year 8 and then study classical Greek in year nine. 23 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:08,460 But then even then, I wasn't particularly thinking about studying classics at university. 24 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:13,980 And actually the other thing, apart from the formal side of it, was Percy Jackson, which was my favourite. 25 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:21,180 And that was probably the other kind of the most fun aspect of getting to know classics through fiction. 26 00:02:21,180 --> 00:02:25,440 So you kind of not schoolteaching this through enjoying some reading, 27 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,190 but I would highly recommend it to everybody as a way into the classics, definitely. 28 00:02:29,190 --> 00:02:35,250 But for me, started with Olympic Games in year 4. How about you, Amy? 29 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:41,550 Yeah. So I'm very lucky in that I remember some family holidays which we usually to either Greece or Italy. 30 00:02:41,550 --> 00:02:46,500 So to put it one way, my parents should have known, that this is what I'd end up doing. 31 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:53,070 But I kind of remember looking up at huge buildings around, particularly the Colosseum in Rome and kind of thinking, 32 00:02:53,070 --> 00:02:58,390 how did that get there, who you know, what kind of world do we live in that these things last that long? 33 00:02:58,390 --> 00:03:02,700 Obviously, at the time, I had no idea that that was a thing you could study at university. 34 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:05,320 I had no idea that was literature or languages that went along with it. 35 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:12,060 I was just kind of astounded by the scale of these buildings in cities that we would walk around. 36 00:03:12,060 --> 00:03:16,920 And I was quite young. But then similar to Cristina, 37 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:25,650 it was when I went to secondary school and could study Latin for only kind of half an hour a week at a school that not many children did Latin there. 38 00:03:25,650 --> 00:03:32,490 But it turned out that I kind of liked it and was maybe about to be good at it if I worked really hard. 39 00:03:32,490 --> 00:03:38,750 And that's how I kind of got into the academic side of things then. And Llewelyn? 40 00:03:38,750 --> 00:03:47,990 Yeah, I mean, actually, quite, quite got a similar story to Amy, actually, that sort of domestically in the family, 41 00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:56,270 I have this quite eccentric dad who insisted on an epic caravan holidays, which often ended up in quite classical places. 42 00:03:56,270 --> 00:04:04,370 And at the time, I had no idea that being in southern Turkey looking at amazing stuff would turn me into a classicist much more formally. 43 00:04:04,370 --> 00:04:11,240 It's the old story, actually, of a really inspirational teacher at a school in Liverpool. 44 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:18,020 He'd been at lots of schools in Liverpool and been sort of, as it were, tracking across Liverpool as the classics departments kind of shut down. 45 00:04:18,020 --> 00:04:21,140 And and I was lucky enough to to encounter him. 46 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:32,330 And he introduced me to classics in depth, also introduced me to the concept of Oxford, which haven't been really on my mind at all. 47 00:04:32,330 --> 00:04:34,580 So important then to have these different influences, 48 00:04:34,580 --> 00:04:38,870 whether it be through popular culture or through your families or the trips that you're able to go on, 49 00:04:38,870 --> 00:04:43,340 but also through your schools and your teachers. I'm interested. 50 00:04:43,340 --> 00:04:45,860 When you first became aware of the ancient world, 51 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:52,760 were you also aware of how the subject itself was perceived amongst whether it be your family or within your school or your peers? 52 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,060 And I know Amy you said that there weren't many people that did do Latin. 53 00:04:56,060 --> 00:05:03,080 Did it feel like an outsider subject and was that a particular draw into doing something that was a little bit different? 54 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:08,420 Yeah, I think it was definitely an outsider subject. It was the kind of thing that I don't know the other. 55 00:05:08,420 --> 00:05:13,640 So it was compulsory for us in year 7. I've went to a girls school and the other girls kind of a lot. 56 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:20,690 And again, why is every week it's always, 'a, um', I don't understand these things don't really get what's going on. 57 00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:23,570 It's not that interesting. It's all about the old world. 58 00:05:23,570 --> 00:05:29,660 And I kind of desperately want to be cool enough that I thought that as well, but I just couldn't think that. 59 00:05:29,660 --> 00:05:33,980 And obviously, now I know that that was the that's not the cool. 60 00:05:33,980 --> 00:05:38,570 And the cool version is the doors, that classics opens for you and the things you can learn there. 61 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:43,970 But definitely for me, there was an attraction of doing something that, you know, 62 00:05:43,970 --> 00:05:48,560 was was different, but also doing something that was such a big challenge. 63 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,040 And I kind of liked the idea that these people are struggling with it. 64 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:56,050 Well, that I'm going to be really good at it. If I say it's too hard, I'm going to prove that it's not too hard. 65 00:05:56,050 --> 00:05:58,880 There's there's nothing that's too hard to learn. 66 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:04,010 And I think it was kind of the determination to be good at something difficult as much as anything else. 67 00:06:04,010 --> 00:06:10,130 But then definitely that perception of this is a hard thing. And if you can do it kind of well done because you've worked hard to be able to do it. 68 00:06:10,130 --> 00:06:18,420 That was a big part of the perception of classics for me. Well, for me in secondary school in year 7 and 8 everybody had to do Latin, 69 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:25,950 so I think within the school it was everybody had different perceptions of classics because we had to do it. 70 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:33,110 And some people really enjoyed that. We had to do. Some people, like Amy says, it's like a certain kind of view of classics that we have to do this. 71 00:06:33,110 --> 00:06:39,990 So it's, again, another thing. So I think actually the aspect of being able to choose it in year 9 and whether we did go on it, 72 00:06:39,990 --> 00:06:44,610 I think always having a choice to do something and you actually choosing to do it gives you a 73 00:06:44,610 --> 00:06:49,260 particular perception that actually this is something that I enjoy and want to learn more about. 74 00:06:49,260 --> 00:06:54,870 So for me, that was one thing that from the year 7/8, I kind of had the same opinion as everybody else. 75 00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:57,780 What is this? I don't really understand all of these grammatical structures. 76 00:06:57,780 --> 00:07:03,060 So you kind of get past that and actually being able to choose, especially bringing in Greek as well. 77 00:07:03,060 --> 00:07:09,120 That gave me a different perception of classics because so far my only exposure was literally through the Latin lessons that we had. 78 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:16,900 So that gave me a different perspective. But also I think wider is that I realise how my school was such an amazing school, 79 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:22,920 gave me so many opportunities, but that was because it was an amazing school that taught classics in that way. 80 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:32,660 But actually outside of that, because I'm not from an affluent background and so nobody in my family knows what classics is or for me personally as a Chinese person 81 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:40,170 Not many people in my community know what is. So actually the perception, what is classics is definitely part of my experience. 82 00:07:40,170 --> 00:07:41,280 If we say classics, 83 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:47,880 I think one thing is that people think of classical music or think of things that they associate with classics and not the subject. 84 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:53,610 But actually if you say, oh, well, do you know about you know about Greek myth, about things that are familiar to everybody, 85 00:07:53,610 --> 00:07:57,990 then that kind of brings in a different perception that, oh, I didn't know classics was that. 86 00:07:57,990 --> 00:08:02,490 So then I think from my experience that 1 - being in school is something different. 87 00:08:02,490 --> 00:08:09,550 But also for me personally, with people not knowing what it is and telling them what it is that that brings to light a lot of different perspectives. 88 00:08:09,550 --> 00:08:13,050 So that was definitely really interesting. 89 00:08:13,050 --> 00:08:19,530 It is really interesting and I wonder what can be done to try and prevent those problems almost with the perception of what Classics is and 90 00:08:19,530 --> 00:08:27,270 the difficulties around the name and the brand and what people already maybe have preconceptions about and aren't sure about - Llewelyn 91 00:08:27,270 --> 00:08:30,960 Do you have anything to say on that? Yes and no, not really. 92 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,400 Because, I mean, 93 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:42,150 I can look back and I can I can see now that there was there was lots of kind of presence of classics in a strange way in my in my family, 94 00:08:42,150 --> 00:08:45,900 even though neither of my parents had studied it. 95 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:51,000 But I remember being terribly excited is a terrible confession that is being terribly excited. 96 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:59,130 When I was about 17 because I was lent a book by this great teacher of mine, which is David David West a little book on Horace. 97 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:02,790 And I sort of convinced myself that I could you know, 98 00:09:02,790 --> 00:09:08,940 I could I could read and understand Horace, which is, you know, what kind of kid was a 17 year. 99 00:09:08,940 --> 00:09:17,040 So much better things I could have been doing. But actually, in a in a strange way, I'm still doing that kind of thing, you know? 100 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:28,890 So even though I didn't know then that that was what, you know, being an undergraduate to some degree, and being a professional. 101 00:09:28,890 --> 00:09:34,110 was like but I did get some kind of presentiment of what it was, what it was like, you know, 102 00:09:34,110 --> 00:09:41,400 through books, through teachers and through that kind of more subtle stuff that happens in families with me. 103 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:46,380 I mean, for perhaps those prospective students and people who might have that interest in the ancient world, 104 00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:50,520 but it isn't something that they've encountered with their family or maybe have felt 105 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,020 able to to express or kind of really get across what it is that they're interested in. 106 00:09:55,020 --> 00:09:59,070 Is there any advice that any of you would would give to somebody who's trying to find their 107 00:09:59,070 --> 00:10:04,260 way in classics but isn't quite sure either what it is or how they can go about accessing it, 108 00:10:04,260 --> 00:10:11,340 especially if they've not necessarily had that chance to study the languages at their school from from me, 109 00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:16,770 read stuff, go to exhibitions, go to museums. 110 00:10:16,770 --> 00:10:20,700 The wonderful thing about classics is that it is it is so massive. 111 00:10:20,700 --> 00:10:30,030 There's so much stuff I focus on in my research that makes it fantastically narrow, which is Roman poetry really. 112 00:10:30,030 --> 00:10:33,900 But there's so much more. There's all the Greek stuff, there's archaeology, there's philosophy. 113 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:40,050 There's there's there's all kinds of things. So there's no one way into the subject. 114 00:10:40,050 --> 00:10:45,900 There are a thousand ways into the subject which which you can pursue by being, 115 00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:53,850 you know, enthused by a Mary Beard TV programme or an event at the local museum or. 116 00:10:53,850 --> 00:11:03,270 Yes, a book in the school library, a Book of Myths in the in the school library, something written by Natalie Haynes or something like that. 117 00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:10,620 You know, I think the most important thing to say is that there's no sort of route 1 into into classics. 118 00:11:10,620 --> 00:11:19,890 We're all kind of drawn into it in accidental ways, finding this kind of intrinsic interest in the subject. 119 00:11:19,890 --> 00:11:25,620 I think if I can add to that as well. So I only studied Latin at school, so I was very language focused. 120 00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:29,310 The only literature I'd read was that that was set on the syllabus. 121 00:11:29,310 --> 00:11:37,260 So the standard beginning of book 4 listening to the Dido episode of The Aeneid, all those kinds of things which I do still love, of course, 122 00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:44,640 but that was on a very narrow route in and I was kind of looking at university applications thinking this subject seems absolutely massive. 123 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:51,780 How on earth am I going to go from knowing these three hundred lines of the Aeneid, knowing about the classical world, whatever. 124 00:11:51,780 --> 00:11:58,050 And wherever you set the limits of that, it seems like a kind of boundless thing that you could just pursue forever, 125 00:11:58,050 --> 00:12:04,140 which I guess in some ways is and as Llewelyn was saying? Now that's brilliant because it gives us all of these different roads in. 126 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:10,860 And I think the flipside of that is, but you only need one. So although there are thousands of routes in for a thousand different people, 127 00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:15,720 each person doesn't you don't have to think of it as tackling this whole beast. 128 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:22,200 And I think if we I definitely set it up in my head as I have to know the classical world inside out and backwards. 129 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,720 And that is a ludicrous idea to think that one person could know that amount of information, 130 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,840 to think that one faculty could know that amount of information. 131 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:38,040 And so I think and also the flipside of what Llewelyn was saying is that pick your own route, follow the path, just ask the questions. 132 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,500 And once you've got the one in, that's all you need and keep on going. And that's the brilliance of the subject. 133 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:49,170 But I completely empathise with people who think that makes it overwhelming or somehow inaccessible. 134 00:12:49,170 --> 00:12:56,580 It doesn't have to be like that. I think I would say that, as actually both speakers are saying, that Classics seems so huge. 135 00:12:56,580 --> 00:13:01,140 But that's what's so great about it, that we are all still learning about it. 136 00:13:01,140 --> 00:13:04,980 And every day we find something new that, oh, I didn't know this was interconnected. 137 00:13:04,980 --> 00:13:10,170 So I think it's just important to start somewhere, anywhere you like, whether it could be a book. 138 00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:18,560 I mean, just go on YouTube and type in myth There's TED talks, short myths, you can look at documentaries if you want to, 139 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:22,850 or you can read a magazine if there's an article that you found or anything, 140 00:13:22,850 --> 00:13:30,110 talk to somebody like ask them whether they know about anything because more likely somebody else has heard of them or something. 141 00:13:30,110 --> 00:13:34,910 You can add to that knowledge that museums as libraries as those are free resources. 142 00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:41,780 I think that's the important thing to point out that is accessible literally in front of you as an Greek art 143 00:13:41,780 --> 00:13:45,840 And as soon as I notice one column, I started seeing columns like everywhere in the Street. 144 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,800 So then I think starting somewhere, speaking to people, 145 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,480 looking for three things to three things everywhere, and then starts that it could be a museum. 146 00:13:53,480 --> 00:14:01,280 Just ask somebody to go with you to see if there's a, you know, a greek vase anywhere, something, and then starting there. 147 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:08,480 There's normally links. And there's also if it's a museum, there are staff there who are very knowledgeable and if there are any activities. 148 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:14,180 So it doesn't have to be that you start reading a classical text straightaway, it could be something very easy, 149 00:14:14,180 --> 00:14:21,620 just a short video and then learning about that, being interested them and just keep going is the interest. 150 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:23,180 That's a great point. And across the north, 151 00:14:23,180 --> 00:14:30,620 there are so many towns and cities that have been influenced so much by classical architecture and history that people don't necessarily know about. 152 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:37,490 And I think more work is being done to highlight those places. So so do try and find the local the local gems just as much. 153 00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:41,660 We mentioned there about the breadth of classics, but how interdisciplinary it is. 154 00:14:41,660 --> 00:14:47,900 So you don't just do a language or literature, you will also combine historical and archaeological skills. 155 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:49,820 I know, Amy, you're now doing philosophy. 156 00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:56,060 So can you tell us a bit about how you got into that and how that's formed such a part of your kind of classics experience? 157 00:14:56,060 --> 00:15:01,340 Yeah, of course. So Classics the Mods programme for the first two years of Classics at Oxford. 158 00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:08,310 I found that when I arrived required you to do some philosophy. Like I kind of thought, oh no, this is so going to end badly. 159 00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:15,110 So I studied Plato to begin with as part of the Mods course, which was seems to be the paper that everyone did, it felt safest. 160 00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:19,400 It felt like there'd be people to hold your hand and help along the way. 161 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,560 Had a brilliant tutor who taught me for the first part of a Mods course on Plato. 162 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,570 And after that I kind of said, well, for finals I'll do the Republic because I love the Plato texts 163 00:15:29,570 --> 00:15:37,700 I'll keep going. I got into the republic. Turns out that Republic is about all the philosophy that every topic in that I could possibly have imagined. 164 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:43,100 And so I picked out some ideas and kind of went to my personal tutor and said, well, I like these books. 165 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:47,700 I like the middle books when they're talking about the metaphysics and what the things in a world actually are. 166 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,130 What what could I do with that? 167 00:15:49,130 --> 00:15:56,810 And my tutor was Roger Crisp and he kind of said everything I think you can do, you can learn about everything by going that way in. 168 00:15:56,810 --> 00:16:04,520 And so then picked up the knowledge and reality paper, the ethics paper, the philosophy of mind paper, the logic and language paper. 169 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,910 And one of my history tutors kind of joked that it was as though I was on a 170 00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:13,160 mission to find the hardest philosophy paper that existed to try and conquer it. 171 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,250 And that, I guess, goes back to being determined to learn to do Latin because people told me it was hard. 172 00:16:18,250 --> 00:16:21,380 And I guess that also applies to the philosophy that I picked up as well. 173 00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:29,450 But definitely I would not have come to philosophy in as much depth and detail if it hadn't been a mandatory part of the mods programme. 174 00:16:29,450 --> 00:16:33,830 And so, needless to say, I'm very, very glad that it was. 175 00:16:33,830 --> 00:16:40,550 But I guess it's kind of easy to think of philosophy as an extra and kind of somewhere outside classics, 176 00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:48,800 especially because I don't know some some scholars of Plato don't read Greek anymore now that it's not kind of part of all of our secondary curricula. 177 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,000 And so it almost feels like it's a separate discipline in itself. 178 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:59,090 But what I think is super interesting is that for every modern idea that you come across in philosophy, 179 00:16:59,090 --> 00:17:07,250 as I have, I'm yet to find a counterexample to this. But it seems that there's always a kind of ancient version of it. 180 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:13,730 This debate has always come up, whether it's in explicitly philosophical texts or perhaps even even in literature. 181 00:17:13,730 --> 00:17:20,960 This kind of conundrum that philosophy is grappling with always has a kind of ancient forebear of it. 182 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:26,990 And so I guess that's one one way that the two have kind of come together for me, even though I now I don't work on ancient authors. 183 00:17:26,990 --> 00:17:30,530 Now I work on political philosophy and ethics. 184 00:17:30,530 --> 00:17:37,820 But even there, there still seems to be this kind of genesis between the classical disciplines and the philosophy that I've more recently done. 185 00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:41,390 And I know Llewelyn in your interests research has obviously been in Roman poetry, 186 00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:45,200 but you've since expanded that reach, particularly looking at the Near East. 187 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,580 And again, how is the breadth of classics there that reflected in your research? 188 00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:51,320 In lots of ways I mean. 189 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:59,480 If I could go back to being an undergraduate, I had a similar experience with with philosophy, which is similar but different, 190 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:07,040 because big difference between me and Amy is that I wasn't very good at philosophy, but I chose to do as much philosophy as anything else. 191 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,890 And it was without question, the most interesting and and. 192 00:18:11,890 --> 00:18:21,210 Sort of shaping kind of education I ever had, and it was just, you know, such a good example of where classics can take you, actually. 193 00:18:21,210 --> 00:18:27,460 And I you know, I still live by some of the things that I learnt at that point thirty years later. 194 00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:35,300 But, yeah, no sort of more recent research. I mean, not so my my my expertise, such as it is, is in sort of reading literature. 195 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:41,920 But I, I spend a lot of time with archaeologists and sort of collaborating with archaeologists 196 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:48,050 in various places and for example collaborating with archaeologists in Pakistan. 197 00:18:48,050 --> 00:18:52,930 And those are that still counts as classics. 198 00:18:52,930 --> 00:19:02,170 It's a kind of a version of classics, which is partly the reception of classics is a historical thing about the 19th century 199 00:19:02,170 --> 00:19:06,430 and what people in that part of the world were thinking about where they were. 200 00:19:06,430 --> 00:19:13,120 But it's also sort of deep historical thing about Greek history in that part of the world and in history thereafter. 201 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:20,020 So, yes, absolutely. It takes you into into interesting spaces. 202 00:19:20,020 --> 00:19:27,940 If you if you if you hang around long enough and even if you don't change it because as an undergraduate, at Oxford in particular, but, you know, 203 00:19:27,940 --> 00:19:32,080 anywhere that you can study the subject, you can go into history, you can go to art history, 204 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:37,780 you can get into linguistics, you can go into philosophy, you can go into into literature. 205 00:19:37,780 --> 00:19:41,200 It is an inherently diverse subject. 206 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:47,170 And I know Cristina, you're now in the second part of your degree where you get to pick from a really wide variety of papers. 207 00:19:47,170 --> 00:19:53,800 What are some of the ones that you've chosen and enjoying so far? Oh, well, just to go back to philosophy, because as Amy, 208 00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:02,890 I did pick the Plato paper and actually philosophy is probably the if I have to say what I'm the proudest of doing so far, 209 00:20:02,890 --> 00:20:06,700 that it's actually the philosophy paper because I find it really hard. 210 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:10,240 If you ask the people I was talking to at the start to doing the things that you'll know. 211 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,190 how hard I found the module 212 00:20:12,190 --> 00:20:19,840 but I think that actually there's something about taking on something that you found so difficult and not understanding anything, 213 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,580 especially the language. I think when you approach anything for the first time, 214 00:20:24,580 --> 00:20:28,790 it seems impossible because there are so many new things coming at you at the same time 215 00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:33,340 but actually once you start to get into a bit more and you find something that interests you, 216 00:20:33,340 --> 00:20:36,730 whether it's a certain argument in philosophy or something, 217 00:20:36,730 --> 00:20:42,430 that it's just an interesting question that you've not thought about before, then actually it seems much more doable. 218 00:20:42,430 --> 00:20:44,020 And then after doing the paper, 219 00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:53,770 then I went on to pick the Republic also so we can tell how far I've come from impossibility at the start of Mods to do one at Greats. 220 00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:59,830 And I think what's interesting about philosophy is that it doesn't have to be kind of 221 00:20:59,830 --> 00:21:05,020 put into a box because it's so relevant to everything is so relevant to modern ideas. 222 00:21:05,020 --> 00:21:10,240 It's relevant to big questions that everybody will not everybody might ask. 223 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:18,270 But some people might ask some day, you know, the big questions. And it doesn't have to be that you have to be a classicist to know about these things. 224 00:21:18,270 --> 00:21:27,880 It's something that I think is able and accessible to everybody, but also in terms of classics being related to other things. 225 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:35,710 I think skills wise that that's something that might not necessarily seem initially apparent, that it connects to lots of different things. 226 00:21:35,710 --> 00:21:39,640 But I mean, I'm doing as part of a different thing. 227 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,590 I'm doing something on digital data, 228 00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:49,000 which seems completely unrelated to classics but the way that I've been trained to think by doing classics and looking at something and being like, 229 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,030 oh, this is very difficult. But actually, what do these things mean? 230 00:21:52,030 --> 00:21:57,160 How do I break it down is something that I think my course and the discipline has trained me to do that. 231 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:04,360 It's something so unrelated with data that actually we find the ways that we think in classics, 232 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:09,020 in the way that we think about other ideas, it's connected. And I guess that brings in philosophy as well, 233 00:22:09,020 --> 00:22:15,160 that actually all of these things are thinking about why things that they are the way they are and what's interesting about them. 234 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:20,770 And so I think in that way connects to lots of different disciplines and those of different areas of our lives. 235 00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:28,870 I think similarly to what Cristina was saying there, I'm coming to the end of my degree, I've obviously spent a lot of time looking at job adverts. 236 00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:37,720 So I got very used to the language that gets used to them. And it seems that there's the kind of codified thing whereby all of the adverts will say, 237 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,460 we want you to have an economics or business degree or a science degree or another analytical degree, 238 00:22:42,460 --> 00:22:49,180 e.g. chemistry, physics, biology, and they list off this whole ream of science degrees that are what the employers 239 00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:55,870 think of as Analytic degrees or where you've kind of garnered analytical skills. 240 00:22:55,870 --> 00:23:01,450 And I think the burden is really on people like me and Cristina in a few years time to 241 00:23:01,450 --> 00:23:07,040 to go out and show that we have analytical skills too and although we're not on the list, 242 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,890 that I'm not suggesting they're going to start putting classics on the list of degrees. 243 00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:18,760 They are necessarily looking for, but I think there's a huge weight on us right now to go out and show that these skills that we've 244 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:26,200 learnt are applicable in the workplace and we're just as analytical as our scientific counterparts. 245 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,460 But I do think that that's something that would encourage a lot more people into classics, 246 00:23:30,460 --> 00:23:34,000 especially from from the north, where maybe the line of, you know, 247 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:39,910 you need to have this kind of scientific background to go and have a really successful job or job security and, 248 00:23:39,910 --> 00:23:45,070 you know, to get the things that are going to pave your path towards the life that you want to build for yourself. 249 00:23:45,070 --> 00:23:50,230 And that was certainly a line that was pushed on me when I was looking at which which degrees to go on to do. 250 00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:57,880 I had A levels and maths and science as well. And so I feel very strongly that we do have these skills. 251 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,260 Classics has given us these skills and it's kind of on us now to go and show, 252 00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:07,870 to keep showing the world that these skills come from classics as much as from other degrees. 253 00:24:07,870 --> 00:24:13,210 Can I can I support that view of things I really think are absolutely correct. 254 00:24:13,210 --> 00:24:16,960 And it's not just there is stuff like philosophy in there. 255 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,410 Is that to be a classicist, you're you're studying, you know, 256 00:24:20,410 --> 00:24:26,950 on the one hand a piece of literature and then the same week you're writing a philosophy essay. 257 00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:32,830 So it's a kind of a flexibility of of mental approach and also of expression, 258 00:24:32,830 --> 00:24:36,760 because a philosophy essay or a philosophy article that you're reading is very 259 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:42,680 different from a from a literature or historical thing that you're reading. 260 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,610 And just to give you some confidence, 261 00:24:45,610 --> 00:24:55,710 it is still something that I hear regularly from friends of mine who are in different areas of business and and the professions. 262 00:24:55,710 --> 00:25:05,980 They might express it with surprise, but they express it and they say, for example, one friend, the best lawyers I see are always ex-classicists. 263 00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:10,330 I mean, this guy had no reason to say things that I wanted to hear, though. 264 00:25:10,330 --> 00:25:13,780 I was delighted to hear that. Now, you could analyse that. 265 00:25:13,780 --> 00:25:22,960 But it's all about the things that Amy's been been talking about, those strengths of of analysis and argumentation, certainly. 266 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,450 And it has been shown also with, I think, 267 00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:31,390 more universities across the country being ever more aware that having had some sort of classical background so if, 268 00:25:31,390 --> 00:25:34,810 for example, you may not have been able to study classical languages, 269 00:25:34,810 --> 00:25:39,100 but you've been able to do a bit of classical civilisation or ancient history at school, 270 00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:46,210 if that is a possibility that those are really respected and valued subjects for going on to university, because not only, as you said, 271 00:25:46,210 --> 00:25:48,910 of the analytic skills and the communicative skills that you said, 272 00:25:48,910 --> 00:25:53,260 but also because of the breadth of the approaches and the subject that you're studying. 273 00:25:53,260 --> 00:25:55,450 Just going back a little bit to when, you know, 274 00:25:55,450 --> 00:26:03,940 you were all studying at school and thinking about your university choices, to what extent did your educational, family, 275 00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:12,970 economic, geographical location influence and affect your your applications and your kind of your choices at university in particular? 276 00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:22,150 Shall I start at the beginning, a long time ago? I've been thinking about this because it got a lot and it's it's kind of strange. 277 00:26:22,150 --> 00:26:33,490 But, I mean, my my family history in this respect is quite complicated, that my dad actually went to Cambridge, but he went to college in 1938. 278 00:26:33,490 --> 00:26:42,650 Right. And then he joined up in 1939 and he never went back to Cambridge and he never went back to Cambridge. 279 00:26:42,650 --> 00:26:46,510 This is not a hit at Cambridge. You could say this of Oxford as well went back to Cambridge. 280 00:26:46,510 --> 00:26:51,160 I mean, he finished his degree somewhere else but never went back to Cambridge because he it's just like I'm just full of, 281 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:58,630 as he put it, very, very, very, very posh people. Right. And he was a grammar school boy from with a Welsh kind of background. 282 00:26:58,630 --> 00:27:06,010 Now, this is relevant because living in Liverpool, living outside Liverpool, but also living with very middle class, 283 00:27:06,010 --> 00:27:13,870 very strong in cultural capital kind of family, there was also because, you know, the class system in this country is so subtle. 284 00:27:13,870 --> 00:27:20,140 There was also this sense that Oxford wasn't Oxbridge was not the place for people like us, 285 00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:25,870 not not a heavy sense, but it just didn't didn't kind of feature on on the scheme of things. 286 00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:34,330 And my sense is, looking back and I have to guess at this, that it was only a very few places in Liverpool back then. 287 00:27:34,330 --> 00:27:39,670 The Bluecoats maybe in addition to my my school, but still not very many, 288 00:27:39,670 --> 00:27:48,820 which were encouraging their strong students to to apply to to Oxbridge or indeed to apply, 289 00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:53,320 you know, sort of get across the country to, you know, universities as well. 290 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,790 So, you know, again, I trace it to that teacher, actually. 291 00:27:57,790 --> 00:28:04,510 Yeah. I would also trace it to a particular pair of teachers that I had in sixth form 292 00:28:04,510 --> 00:28:11,730 But I think that now that the dynamics around applying to university and deciding where to go or what to do all those kind of 293 00:28:11,730 --> 00:28:18,330 things I do think they impact people differently in ways that we're kind of only just starting to uncover. 294 00:28:18,330 --> 00:28:26,160 So to give you the background on my side of things now, neither of my parents have A-levels, nevermind undergraduate degrees. 295 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:33,480 And so for me, I went to a grammar school and there was always a sense that I would probably go on to university, 296 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,010 but I was probably rather than it being a given that that's what would happen. 297 00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:43,140 And the sense in which I would go to university was because, well, that's what you need to do to get the best job. 298 00:28:43,140 --> 00:28:49,320 And so if you're kind of funnelling your life towards I need to go to university to get a degree that's employable, 299 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:57,720 to get a good job, that doesn't necessarily in the kind of cultural imaginary of of where I'm from, lead to doing a Classics degree. 300 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:04,230 In fact, it led me while I was actually at sixth form to apply to a physics degree. And it was only after kind of submitting that thinking, 301 00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:10,350 I've made a terrible decision here and I don't think that's what I'm going to spend the next four years doing it was only 302 00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:19,890 after submitting it that I actually said I'm going to have to take a year and I so the classics was my kind of second shot at university. 303 00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:24,000 Exactly. Because of these cultural factors that that play in. 304 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:30,360 There's a sense in which you're funnelling your life towards a particular degree in order to get the job. 305 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,480 And when university is kind of functional like that. 306 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:41,730 That definitely, I think plays into to the dynamics of more people's decisions than we maybe anticipate. For my application, I think. 307 00:29:41,730 --> 00:29:45,510 Well, firstly, I have to trace all completely back to my mum, 308 00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:53,400 who actually gave me the amazing opportunity to go into the school that provided me with the opportunity to study classics. 309 00:29:53,400 --> 00:30:01,530 If not, I don't think I would ever have known about classics or even considered going, because that was probably the only opportunity, 310 00:30:01,530 --> 00:30:06,510 because of the opportunities that the school gave in terms of the resources that they could provide. 311 00:30:06,510 --> 00:30:13,170 So without that, I would not have been able to even consider applying, I think, because I was determined to study. 312 00:30:13,170 --> 00:30:16,620 And so likewise with my sister who decided to study medicine, 313 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:22,800 is that we have been so supported that nothing would ever stop us from doing what we want to do. 314 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,220 I think if we want to do that, we will find some way to do that. 315 00:30:26,220 --> 00:30:29,910 So I think, again, that comes from my mum with the support that she gave. 316 00:30:29,910 --> 00:30:36,330 So with the application, if I was going to study Classics, I'm going to go for it and actually thinking about it now. 317 00:30:36,330 --> 00:30:42,510 I'm looking back once I'm studying classics, as I can see all the different factors that were at play, 318 00:30:42,510 --> 00:30:46,770 but that I kind of just like made a beeline towards studying, which is really interesting. 319 00:30:46,770 --> 00:30:53,550 I think especially now with the discipline is that we see we now look at it all the different things that have been influencing. 320 00:30:53,550 --> 00:30:57,330 I'm not sure if that's the same for everybody, but I've definitely noticed, looking back, 321 00:30:57,330 --> 00:31:03,720 all of the things that have been at play that maybe I didn't notice before, which is really good that we're actually doing that now. 322 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,930 But in terms of my social background is that nobody, I think, on my street knows about classics or, 323 00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:15,030 you know, and as I said earlier, as a Chinese person, again, not many people know what it is. 324 00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:23,040 But I think what's interesting is that because I'm doing it, I'm hoping to show people that you can do it because I am doing it and that actually 325 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,390 we shouldn't be thinking about all of these different issues that might be barriers. 326 00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:31,140 Think about what your goal is and then get to that goal and then all the barriers. 327 00:31:31,140 --> 00:31:35,040 You just kind of bash through them and get through them as you go, because at the end of the day, 328 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,780 what we're all doing is that we're doing something that we enjoy and that we want to learn about. 329 00:31:39,780 --> 00:31:46,470 And that actually I think thinking about that has already given me a path to studying, to applying for it. 330 00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:51,600 But one other note to add is actually I didn't decide to do Classics until 331 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,740 pretty much the last minute because I was deciding between law and Classics 332 00:31:55,740 --> 00:32:00,900 And I think the deciding factor was that I found out that it's actually very 333 00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:04,800 difficult to find any discipline that will directly drive you towards a job, 334 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:11,580 which I think is one of the key issues. when we're thinking about applying for anything is what can this give me in terms of my future life? 335 00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:17,400 And that actually, even in things like engineering, it's not a straight line towards a discipline, towards a job, 336 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,830 but it's actually what the what the degree gives you is an opportunity to find out about the degree. 337 00:32:22,830 --> 00:32:27,600 And then from that, you can always find different ways into different workplaces. 338 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:33,210 And I think, as you talked about earlier, with the skills that you get actually in any degree, you then take that to the job. 339 00:32:33,210 --> 00:32:37,020 So particularly for me, the application part, 340 00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:42,660 I was very lucky in being able to be determined and go for it and have the support and opportunity that I needed. 341 00:32:42,660 --> 00:32:47,910 But actually, on reflection, that, you know, I think that's been the most important fact. 342 00:32:47,910 --> 00:32:54,720 And regardless of what other people thought or what other barriers there were, is the way to think about what you want to do and then go for that. 343 00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:03,570 Fantastic. I'm interested in how all these different impacts and experiences that you've said formulated that decision to do classics 344 00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:09,900 how did then was still apply when you went on to do classics when you were at Oxford and some are still in Oxford. 345 00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:15,470 How your your background and your experience has has impacted that secondary experience. 346 00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:21,470 I think so much of how everything happens in this country, this isn't a very profound insight, 347 00:33:21,470 --> 00:33:30,710 but is about this internalised sense, what we all have carrying around about places where we have we can go to another place. 348 00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:39,020 We can't go to, things where we we are licensed to do and things we aren't licensed to do, which we sort of refer to as the classes. 349 00:33:39,020 --> 00:33:47,360 But as a as an academic, it's a strange space you occupy because you're not part of that. 350 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:56,150 You're you're parallel to it. And the most valuable thing in kind of social terms about the job that I ended up doing, 351 00:33:56,150 --> 00:34:01,520 the most valuable thing in other terms is that I get paid to read Latin poetry which is fantastic. 352 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:12,260 But in social terms, it's it's that I'm not constrained by who I can talk to or where I can go to or what I can contribute to. 353 00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:22,830 So I'm liberated from whatever it was that that was kind of constraining this family in Merseyside in very subtle ways, really back back then. 354 00:34:22,830 --> 00:34:25,160 So, I mean, that's ridiculously kind of vague, isn't it? 355 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:33,500 But that's my my contribution that my experience studying here is that I think the only negative, I guess, 356 00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:39,980 experience, I would say, but that I want to flag is not I think is part of a wider issue that's been told, 357 00:34:39,980 --> 00:34:47,730 is that when coming to Oxford for the first time and saying what I was studying, being somebody expressed surprise, I well, actually, 358 00:34:47,730 --> 00:34:55,380 they presumed that I was an international student studying classics and that, you know, and I don't think it was because of my northern background. 359 00:34:55,380 --> 00:34:58,260 Everybody is from the South. that I had to have a Skype interview. 360 00:34:58,260 --> 00:35:06,890 So I think it's things like that sometimes that surprised people that I can be who I am and studying classics think without thinking of my background. 361 00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:09,170 I think that's one thing that's been part of my experience. 362 00:35:09,170 --> 00:35:17,150 But actually I've been really happy to see a greater awareness of things like that, that actually people study classics from all over. 363 00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:21,560 They can be international, they can home students, they can be anybody from wherever. 364 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:30,230 And actually, I think by, for example, me coming on to here and representing myself and as being a classicist from a different background, 365 00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:37,410 I think that's an important part of people beginning to be more aware that classics and people studying classics can come from anywhere. 366 00:35:37,410 --> 00:35:39,710 So I think that's the only, I guess, negative. 367 00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:46,790 But I think the positive on that side is that by speaking about experiences like this, that people become more aware and more careful and more, 368 00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:55,460 I guess, active actually, in trying to find people who enjoy classics and trying to attract them to study the discipline here. 369 00:35:55,460 --> 00:35:59,330 Yeah, I think I'm thinking about my undergraduate experience. 370 00:35:59,330 --> 00:36:02,990 I'm actually kind of, again, built up in my head that coming to Oxford. 371 00:36:02,990 --> 00:36:06,860 Everyone will be different. Everyone would practically be conversant in Greek whereas. 372 00:36:06,860 --> 00:36:10,160 I was just about to start Greek having got started at school, 373 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:16,080 but there was definitely much less of an impact on my experience than I kind of expected there to be. 374 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,580 And I think adding to what Cristina was saying, I mean, 375 00:36:19,580 --> 00:36:27,230 one thing that I always want to do with potential applicants is kind of get them into the city during term time. 376 00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:33,750 Get get them around when I get them here when when students are, which is, you know, administrative terms, 377 00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:39,290 incredibly difficult and and particularly when people are coming from a long way away. 378 00:36:39,290 --> 00:36:44,690 But it's so valuable because people have a kind of a mental image of of Oxford, 379 00:36:44,690 --> 00:36:52,280 which is kind of dreaming spires and the gorgeous buildings and and people dressed in cravats just sort of wandering around and they land here and they walk around. 380 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,600 and talk to students and they see exactly that diversity. 381 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,370 They don't see as much diversity is that it should be because it's a kind of a closed circle. 382 00:37:01,370 --> 00:37:07,970 But they do see a whole range of different people from different backgrounds. 383 00:37:07,970 --> 00:37:15,230 And it's such a sort of penny dropping moment when these young people kind 384 00:37:15,230 --> 00:37:19,580 of look around them and think there's no reason this shouldn't be my my space. 385 00:37:19,580 --> 00:37:24,590 And that that's that's the fundamental thing that they can sort of see this space as their space is a 386 00:37:24,590 --> 00:37:30,500 space where they can do interesting things and enjoy themselves and have friends and learn and and so, 387 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:35,000 yeah, I think you're right in seeing it living and breathing with the energy. 388 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,910 I think also that there is in Oxford, not just the city, 389 00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:44,720 but within the university and and all the different exciting people that are brought together to study classics in particular. 390 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,580 Is such a valuable experience. 391 00:37:46,580 --> 00:37:53,450 Is there anything else that you think with us all coming from the North that you would have appreciated experiencing before you came to Oxford? 392 00:37:53,450 --> 00:37:58,070 You know, if you were trying to reach and engage prospective students from the north, 393 00:37:58,070 --> 00:38:03,650 is there anything in particular that you feel specific to the region would be even more helpful? 394 00:38:03,650 --> 00:38:12,180 I do think Oxford is a has become something of a university of the South East. 395 00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:19,740 In terms of, you know, a broad character of the people that think of it naturally as a place to apply to, 396 00:38:19,740 --> 00:38:32,220 the big question is how we communicate the idea generally to people in my neck of the woods in Merseyside or up the coast or northeast. 397 00:38:32,220 --> 00:38:42,900 I mean, how how can we make them understand that this is this is a place where they would enjoy themselves and learn what they need to learn? 398 00:38:42,900 --> 00:38:46,590 I'm not sure - I think this kind of thing. 399 00:38:46,590 --> 00:38:53,910 I think that using sort of contemporary technology to show people how, you know, what kind of people we are or aren't. 400 00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:58,740 Yes. And and where we where we are and so on is one way of doing it. 401 00:38:58,740 --> 00:39:04,260 But that's the that's the that's the key thing. And that's the most difficult thing as well, 402 00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:11,060 I think transport wise is also something that's a huge consideration for me, that I don't have a car. 403 00:39:11,060 --> 00:39:17,730 So having to think about Oxford being actually so far away and how to move all my stuff and, 404 00:39:17,730 --> 00:39:20,700 you know, the comfort of being in the north would be just, 405 00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:26,400 you know, or at home generally and having to transport all of these different things down into the south. 406 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:33,270 And actually, I think by showing people that it is doable and not hiding that it might be difficult. 407 00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:39,990 But actually, you know, saying that it is doable, there is support out there and there are other people who have done it before. 408 00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:45,900 who can maybe offer advice as to what trains you can get, just simple things like that for me personally, Cambridge. 409 00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:51,570 And Oxford thinking about that, I was thinking about how can I actually physically and cheaply get to the university, 410 00:39:51,570 --> 00:39:56,700 you know, on the train without having to change the train, taking 50 bags off the train. 411 00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:59,260 So things like that, just thinking not only about the subject-side, 412 00:39:59,260 --> 00:40:04,860 I think about all the things that Oxford can offer and support and think about the students in 413 00:40:04,860 --> 00:40:09,720 particular who have different experiences and getting there and can actually help give advice. 414 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:11,550 I think that's one thing that's really valuable. 415 00:40:11,550 --> 00:40:19,980 So we should show who we are, what our experiences are, how we can actually help, and that it's not just your left on your own up at the north. 416 00:40:19,980 --> 00:40:25,110 If you want to get to Oxford and you have no way to approach that, you find open day speak to. 417 00:40:25,110 --> 00:40:29,670 Students, get in touch with the colleges, see if they have any students from the north and say, 418 00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:35,070 oh, I have some questions about transportation or finance, get in touch about that. 419 00:40:35,070 --> 00:40:44,220 And I think getting those questions answered is really key to feeling better and feeling not lost, that you're just you have no idea what to do. 420 00:40:44,220 --> 00:40:49,050 So you won't even bother applying and finding out. I think everybody is willing to help. 421 00:40:49,050 --> 00:40:53,310 If you have questions, just say and then somebody will know the answer. 422 00:40:53,310 --> 00:40:58,620 Yeah, I think building on that. Classicists, especially Oxford Classicists, in my experience, 423 00:40:58,620 --> 00:41:03,090 are just the kind of people who will go as far as they can to the ends of the earth if they have to, 424 00:41:03,090 --> 00:41:06,900 to help you, because we want more northern classicists. 425 00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:13,200 We kind of appreciate that it shouldn't be confined to those who studied Latin and Greek from the womb. 426 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,710 So we want to encourage that. And people are willing to help. 427 00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:21,960 Exactly, because it aligns with their interests of wanting to to diversify the subject. 428 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,330 It's really not difficult to find people who want to help. 429 00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:30,510 We just have to send one email or make one phone call and help will kind of pour forth in my experience. 430 00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:37,110 Exactly. And you'll be able to find links to outreach in the North and also to all of the different link colleges. 431 00:41:37,110 --> 00:41:44,670 So those Oxford colleges that have links with different regions in the North on our regional classics Web page when it comes to not just Oxford, 432 00:41:44,670 --> 00:41:50,670 but also classics, maybe Oxford classics. But are there any other myths that you would like to dispel? 433 00:41:50,670 --> 00:41:57,210 One about other languages and how you gain access to to the courses here. 434 00:41:57,210 --> 00:42:06,360 And the fundamental story being that it's it's great if you've had the opportunity to to learn Latin at school. 435 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,810 It's great if you've had the opportunity to learn Greek at school, 436 00:42:09,810 --> 00:42:22,680 but you don't need either of those at all or to A level or equivalent at all to apply for a range of courses here at here at Oxford. 437 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:36,000 What you need is a a motivation and an enthusiasm to to to learn about these cultures in all the kind of diverse ways that you can learn about them. 438 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,110 We've been we've been talking about. But that's that's the main thing. 439 00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:45,780 People people assume that they're not they're just fundamentally not qualified to apply. 440 00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:49,290 And they are, everybody is qualified to apply. 441 00:42:49,290 --> 00:42:56,910 Can I just add on to that that I think one myth or misconception is whatever your thinking that the people are like, 442 00:42:56,910 --> 00:42:59,460 they are probably most likely not what you're thinking, 443 00:42:59,460 --> 00:43:08,490 that even if you think everybody is they're so smart, they're so unfriendly, everybody knows each other, all of these things. 444 00:43:08,490 --> 00:43:14,730 That's not true because in any place there will be other people who are feeling exactly the same as you and actually, although I'm saying this, 445 00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:19,770 I felt exactly the same way, which is why I can say that I was completely wrong about everybody. 446 00:43:19,770 --> 00:43:27,210 And I've made really close friends who are studying classics like minded who, you know, we all procrastinate. 447 00:43:27,210 --> 00:43:30,930 We all do things that students do because we're human beings. 448 00:43:30,930 --> 00:43:34,830 And I think that's something that whatever you're thinking and presuming about other people. 449 00:43:34,830 --> 00:43:42,120 I think it's a great lesson in any case, to not ever presume anything, but particularly with Oxford classics that everybody went to the same schools. 450 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,060 They all know each other. You're the only outsider. That's not true. 451 00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:53,020 There are always people that feel exactly the same as you who want to be friends with you and that you just have to dispel that. 452 00:43:53,020 --> 00:43:56,650 Be brave and and just go for it. Make that conversation. 453 00:43:56,650 --> 00:44:05,410 There are always people who are going to like you because everybody wants to make friends and they want to be connected by the fact that we're all learning. 454 00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:11,880 So don't let any of your own preconceptions about what people might be or what the course might be. 455 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,820 Hinder you from going, go and find out what it's like, 456 00:44:14,820 --> 00:44:21,600 and then you'll find out most likely that all your worries or most of your worries were not not anything to be worried about. 457 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,130 Fantastic. I think that is a wonderful note on which to do end this episode. 458 00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:28,590 You summed it up so beautifully there Cristina, 459 00:44:28,590 --> 00:44:33,570 Thank you so much to all three of our panellists for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us today. 460 00:44:33,570 --> 00:44:40,063 And thank you for listening to this episode of Regional Classics. We hope that you will join us for the next episode soon.