Hello and welcome to Regional Classics, a podcast from the University of Oxford,
which reflects and celebrates the diverse voices of Oxford classicists past and present from different parts of the UK.
All the while creating thought provoking conversations, breaking down barriers and showing that if you want to study the ancient world,
any aspect: politics, history, arts, science, literature, culture and much more than you can.
Oxford classicists do not and need not come from only a narrow cross-section of society.
Welcome to this Welsh episode of regional classics, and I'm delighted to be joined by Lewys Griffiths,
who has just completed his classical archaeology and ancient history undergraduate degree at St John's College and recorded separately.
It was a pleasure to be joined by Reem Ahmed, a former classical student at Christchurch College and now a trainee reporter for Media Wales.
And by Ellie Williams, an undergraduate studying classics and English at Regent's Park College.
So Reem, I wondered if you could just start by telling us whereabouts you are actually from in Wales and when you first encountered the ancient world?
Yeah. So yeah, firstly, thank you so much for inviting me on.
So I'm from Cardiff. I've lived there pretty much my whole life, grew up there, went to school there,
and I was thinking about this when I first encountered the ancient world.
I think in an in an informal level, it was probably the Percy Jackson series, the book series.
And I remember when I was in probably like Year five or six, just like devouring those books and just absolutely loving it.
But I think, yeah, on a formal level, when I seriously started, I guess, studying the ancient world,
that was probably when I started learning Latin in school, which would have been Year eight.
So yeah, that was when my first encounters of the ancient world.
Fantastic. How about you, Ellie? I think my experience was very different.
I'm from the rural mid-Wales right on the border, and I went through the Welsh education system up until college.
And then I was kind of forced to cross the border because there wasn't a really viable option for me here where I could study classics.
I'd gone to an open day at Hereford sixth form college and been handed this little flyer, and I've seen on the front of it famous people who study classics.
And I saw Chris Martin and I just thought, why not?
So off I went over to England and I absolutely loved studying classics.
And so then I ended up applying to Oxford for it. My experience at Oxford doing the intensive course was mind blowing.
Never thought I could learn a language in a year, so I'm from a tiny, tiny village.
It's called Groesfaen it's sort of near Caerphilly, just north of Cardiff, in South Wales.
And then I went to a Welsh medium comprehensive school
and to be perfectly honest to answer your question about how I first sort of encountered the ancient world.
Not 100 percent sure I do have a specific moment in time.
I guess, you know, Mary Beard's BBC documentary is an amazing sort of introduction,
so it could have been those that sort of kicked off the passion.
But I don't have a particular moment that I can remember thinking, Oh, this is a new subject, that kind of thing.
Did you ever get the chance to study any ancient subjects within your primary and secondary school?
Then you mentioned it was Wales speaking which adds an extra interesting element. Yeah, exactly.
No, not at all. I never, ever studied anything to do with the ancient world whilst I was at school.
You can't say in Latin, in in sort of Welsh medium education that the the option is not there to do it through like
the Welsh language exam board and even, you know, when I studied history and stuff in school didn't do anything to the Romans or the Greeks.
And there's definitely no classical civilisation on offer, either.
So I think it can be difficult to get into that kind of thing if you are from Wales and particularly if you do go to Welsh language school because,
you know, if it's not as a subject which you're need to do or choose to do, you've got to go off and do it on your own.
But certainly I'm intrigued, therefore, how you found this passion for not just classical archaeology, but also the ancient history.
So there must have been a point at which you decided this was the degree that you wanted to study.
So what was your thinking when you were sort of 16, 17, 18 about about what your academic future might be?
Yeah, that's the thing, really, isn't it? So I always wanted to go and study history when I was thinking about going off to uni,
and I volunteered at an amazing museum near Cardiff called St Fagans Natural History Museum or Folk Museum.
And one of the sort of displays that got there is called Bryn Eryr,
and it's like a sort of Iron Age settlement and it's a reconstruction of this farm.
And and as part of that, they were we could help out in painting the walls in like traditional methods, except.
Etc. Anyway, this this settlement is set, that's exactly when the Romans came into came into Britain, sort of.
Well, it's there's about the time of Boudica's conquests of 60 A.D. I remember thinking, Wow, this is a really interesting period of history.
I've studied history in school, but never really had a chance to properly study, you know, the Romans or the Greeks, etcetera.
And I think it was then I decided to well, actually, instead of going to study history for three years,
maybe I should say that the ancient history and archaeology three years as something different,
you know, just to branch out something a bit more interesting. And so Reem, obviously, you got that chance to study Latin from year 8
But at what was the point when you thought, actually, this is something I want to study further on and especially at university?
Yes. So I would say my A-levels are probably not typically what a classic student at Oxford would would have done.
So I actually did biology, chemistry, maths and Latin A-level,
basically throughout most of year 12 I was actually quite set on doing medicine in a university,
mainly because my family is kind of all involved in medicine, but then yeah, it was once I like had work experience,
I kind of decided that medicine wasn't for me, and I suppose I did a bit of soul searching.
Just thinking about it was quite quite late at this point, I think it was the summer between year 12 and 13, and I was just thinking, You know what?
What do I really enjoy? Like what? What subject here really kind of gets me up in the morning.
What do I look forward to the most in school?
And it was Latin, basically, and it was the one thing that I'd carried on and I couldn't bear to part with it in year 13.
And I just decided, You know what? How about I kind of look into classics?
And yeah, I remember kind of scouring university websites.
Just what does classics entail? Because I would probably say by this point, yeah.
Apart from Percy Jackson and Latin, my knowledge of classics of that age probably wasn't very broad.
So there was a lot of kind of exploring in that summer and what it classics is because I pretty much realised, you know, this is this is for me.
Yeah, the idea of like studying ancient Greek as well with an amazing kind of context.
So yeah, that's that's how I came to my decision. Now, Ellie, you also you don't just do classics, you also do English, I believe.
So what made you decide to do that? That joint honours course?
I took I took four A-levels and then it got to the point where they said, you have to choose a degree.
I might add that this was a very long time after they told me to apply to Oxford.
It was apply to Oxford, and then it was choose a degree,
and I basically looked at my four A-levels and I thought, how many of these can I bear to part with?
And I ended up keeping classics in English. Was there a difference in how the subject was perceived at school and also at home?
The thing about South Wales, I think you need to know is like it's Cardiff, and then everything radiates out from that,
and everything kind of leads back to Cardiff once you get to sort of mid-Wales.
There is no like big anchor and big population with loads of different cultures.
We are a very simple kind of small town dotted around, and it's kind of the same story.
Everywhere there wasn't, there wasn't really anyone from my high school who wanted to go to the big sixth form college and study loads of A-levels.
It's a community where the schools are just there to put us through there until we're legally allowed to leave,
and then they'll go back into doing whatever their parents do without informing or they'll do something more hands on.
So I think I always kind of just I knew that I couldn't find what I wanted here, and that's kind of what pushed me over the border.
I knew I had to find a place where, like, there were these same people who found all these,
like ancient things as fascinating and exciting, as I did, and what absolutely blew
My mind was when I got into this classics class, it was only the second class that they were running of the class civ A-level at Hereford college.
And unlike all my other classes, you could just walk into that classroom and we would never be off topic.
We would always be talking about some kind of myth or some weird thing about what we were studying.
And there was just this kind of atmosphere of us all being really like into what we were talking about,
and everyone was just a little bit different and it was amazing.
I've never felt that in my life before, and I think that that's a big problem in mid-Wales, especially there is there is not really a big.
Drive to learn in the way that we would learn at university or even college.
So I think not only classics is not really my thing.
I don't think in a lot of ways like higher education or the love for learning is a thing.
And classics is like, it is the kind of classic degree.
Wasn't it one of the original ones studied Oxford? You do find it everyone who studies it is just trying to drink up everything they can learn.
And you can tell everyone, just gets so into what they're talking about.
I hadn't experienced any of that before college. Yeah, it's really fascinating.
I think the societal and cultural differences that you've talked about there specifically in relation to education.
Is there any advice that you would give to somebody in a similar position who's living in perhaps a slightly different part of mid-Wales who's
maybe also feeling that they haven't got those opportunities or they haven't been able to be part of that sort of intellectual environment yet?
I would definitely say that like, you shouldn't follow the crowd.
There were only three people from my age group in my high school that went to the sixth form college to study their A-levels,
and everyone else thought we were crazy because we would know nobody, we would be in
this humongous group of a thousand people from this enormous catchment zone.
I have a friend from Pontypool who came to the same college and we now go to Oxford together.
But like geographically, there is no way we should have ever met.
We ended up going to school together for two years because we decided that we really wanted to go to this one place
where we knew we would get high quality education and be able to learn about the courses we were really interested in.
So I would just say, you don't have to follow your friends, you just go to the college you want to go to and learn what you want to learn.
You'll find friends who are like you wherever you go and ream.
Reem, is there anything that you know looking back that you would say to either your former self with someone in a similar
position who doesn't necessarily come to classics that early or is thinking of doing something different,
like you were thinking of doing medicine based on your A-levels. Is there any advice that you would you would see you would give in that situation.
And yet echoing Ellie's point, I think just, you know, you only get like one choice, at an undergraduate degree.
And I think it's such a like looking back on it now, now that I'm finished finished with it,
it's such a special experience and I think it's a very personal experience and you really should be doing.
I feel quite strongly about this. You should be doing a degree that you genuinely like, want, want to do.
Not that your parents want you to do or like your school is encouraging you to do.
I think if you, for example, yeah, I'd say I definitely say to my younger self, just just go for it and I wish I just wish.
I'd kind of realised that early and realised that option was very much open to me before I even entered like sixth form.
And I'm sure if I felt that since year 11, my A-level choices would have been very different, possibly.
So yeah, I just think it's without sounding too cheesy.
I just really think university is such a special experience that we're so lucky to have.
So just take full, full opportunity of it and and do something that you genuinely really enjoy.
And I would say, especially if you're considering applying to Oxford because it's it's not a myth that the workload is it's tough.
And I think what often got me through is the love I had for classics.
And, you know, that kind of that's what kind of gets you all excited like Ellie was saying.
And and it's nice to be in that environment where you know you're excited and other people are excited.
So I think it's just really important to choose something that you genuinely from, almost like from the bottom of your heart.
And yeah, enjoy. Coming to Oxford to study a subject which you've never done before.
I sort of felt like I was, you know, a few steps behind other people because some people had already studied Latin,
or they'd done Greek in school or they'd done classical civilisation, so might have had sort of a foundation of knowledge, which I didn't have.
So I was kind of playing catch up with that, you know, which ended up being perfectly fine.
But it is a little bit daunting. But I guess, you know, you don't need to worry about that because you will be OK.
And in terms of how my background, you know, how it affected, how when I came to Oxford, I think meeting like minded people.
So I spent a lot of time in the Oxford Welsh society.
So sort of meeting other people who speak Welsh or other Welsh people as well and just being
able to socialise with them and realising that there are other people like you at Oxford,
you're not completely on your own as it were. That's great to hear Lewys.
That was such a strong Welsh community in Oxford, too.
And Reem how has your classics degree influenced your choice of career and your experience so far as as a journalist?
Yes. So and I would say with, yeah, with my choice of career in Oxford, we wrote so, so many essays like All the time and I've always loved writing.
Classics always allowed me to do lots of essays, lots of writing, and that's like the same,
yeah, in my career now, writing all the time, it's literally my job.
And yeah, I would say in terms of the kind of choice,
possibly the choice of career that was more influenced by my extracurricular activities in Oxford.
So I did quite a lot of student journalism as well.
But I would definitely say with the breadth of classics, what that was one of my favourite aspects of classics.
It was just the sheer breadth of the subject. So even though I kind of went into it through Latin primarily I was kind of opened up to this whole world of archaeology,
history, philosophy and one of the things I realised.
I think that's what drew me to classics very much in the first place when I was first exploring is that I love that breadth of knowledge.
Like, I love the idea of studying something where it's not just that it's you can study so many different things.
And I feel like that translates into my current career. I get to report on all sorts of things.
I do everything from like hard news to restaurant reviews to experience stories, first-person stories.
So, yeah, I'd say that translation has been really nice, maybe in terms of like skills that I've learnt,
like attention to detail, thinking critically, things like that.
Everything which I think classics really encourages all skills that I've been able to transfer.
And Lewys, do you think that your degree in particular, I suppose, of combining those two very different sides of archaeology and history has really
developed those skills and helped you as you're looking for your future career?
And do you have any plans on that front? Yeah, definitely.
I think because you have sort of two, I guess in some ways, they're similar in other ways, they're different sides.
The degree you've got to think quite flexibly, you're approaching every sort of problem from two different perspectives.
You know, you're looking at it from an archaeological point of view and an historical point of view,
and look at the different sources and things which you can use together and to answer your second question.
Yeah. So I'm very fortunate in that I've managed to get myself a training contract with a commercial law firm.
So once I've finished, I'm going to study law, so I'm doing the law conversion course and then I'm training as a commercial solicitor.
So hopefully a fairly good career. But we'll wait and see how the world of work is.
Going back a little bit to your degree, what were some of your favourite aspects then of the course,
but also the ancient past of the ancient world and those connections that you can draw between the archaeology and the history?
Yeah. So I think probably my favourite part of the degree is the fact that you get to handle some of these ancient objects.
So in particular, I did a really niche module on Greek and Roman coins.
I don't think there are many other places that you can do that sort of work at an undergraduate level.
It just happened to be that I was really interested in them. But because, you know, the uni is associated with the Ashmolean museum.
We got to go into the museum and handle these coins.
So you're studying these things and seeing the changes in the coinage and then you also getting to hold it in your hand and then, you know,
you're holding some pieces, which there are only a few in the in the entire world and then it's in your hand, right in front of you.
So I think, yeah,
that's really exciting and an opportunity which you get for studying sort of ancient history and archaeology at Oxford is that you get these
first hand experiences of the material culture as part of the CAAH degree before you do something called a museum report or a site report.
And that definitely, you know,
is interdisciplinary that you use both the archaeology and historical sources to study a particular object or site.
So I studied, it's a funerary relief from outside of Rome.
So I looked at something very niche and I was looking at how freed women,
so female slaves, how they represented themselves and their funerary monuments.
And I also meant I get I got to go out to Rome to go and have a look at this relief.
And I think that is interesting. Is that in with this part of the course,
the museum report aside report that you can study anything you want and leave with the combining classics in English.
Are there any interdisciplinary links between the two subjects that you found that you particularly enjoy?
And I think something that I definitely stress a lot when I was interviewed because they like to ask you
why you choose wacky things like classics and English is I really do think they just go together so well.
You can, like you do, study the literature as a classicist, but then you can extend that as an as an English student.
I don't get to study very much cross-disciplinary stuff this year because I'm only doing the first year English.
But the way you can see how classics does inform all these authors and all these books and texts.
That you read later and later, the Percy Jackson books, it all goes back to classics, and I'm sorry, I didn't read the Percy Jackson books.
I read the Pegasus books, which were very good.
I must say, if you're a small child, if you want to get small child into classics, I would definitely recommend the Pegasus book,
but you can just you can see how literature is just always built on these core myths and retellings.
And I love how you can look at different cultures and see how they all have their different myths.
Like we wrote an essay this year on the Underworld and in Book Six of the Aeneid.
And I wanted to look at like different cultures takes on it.
So I I tried to research some Egyptian underworld myths and then some Babylonian ones, and it was absolutely fascinating.
Not at all relevant to the first year of my degree in the slightest, but I absolutely loved it and I just wanted to read more and more and more.
And it got to the point where I had to sit down and go, You need to go and learn your declensions again.
That's the best bit about classics, though, that it is so broad,
and I would almost argue that certainly Egyptian Babylonian underworld, that is classics too.
The prixe is in its depth and its breadth. Reem, now obviously over the course of your four year course.
Even just doing single classics, you still got the opportunity to do so many different modules and elements of studying the world.
Are there any particular interdisciplinary elements that you really enjoyed studying?
Yeah, definitely the two that are in my mind were so I studied Hellenistic and poetry.
And then I also studied Hellenistic art and archaeology.
And it's like a separate module.
And yet I just absolutely loved how what you could see in the literature in the poetry was then translated into visual arts and archaeology.
I absolutely love that. And then in a similar way, I studied Neronian literature, and I also studied.
So this, by the way, I should probably say this is my final modules.
I studied these both of these in years three and four, and so I studied Neronian literature.
Then I also studied History Module, which was called Nero to Hadrian, the period that came from Nero to Hadrian.
And yet again, it was it was great to see what was within within the literature and kind of then having that context in the history,
or at least the kind of early part of of that module. It was just really nice how they complement each other.
And I think that that's actually something I'd recommend to people and to Oxford Classics undergrads, you know,
choosing their finals options and the more you could get them to complement each other, it just makes things easier.
And it's just it gives you, I think, a much richer understanding of like a certain period.
And just looking at it from different angles is really nice. Fantastic.
A couple of other speakers on this podcast have have made reference to their backgrounds and how it's actually really
closely affected the types of module or the types of literature or history or art that they've studied as part of classics.
And I wondered, how do you think that your Welsh background may or may not have influenced some of the elements of research that you've done,
and particularly Ellie perhaps with your sort of more rural background in Mid Wales?
I wonder if that's influenced the types of literature that you enjoy reading and studying?
Actually, I did. I emailed someone a few weeks ago and I was asking them if there was anything I
could do to delve into what exactly was going on in Wales in the classical period,
and they sent me a big reading list.
I'm going to try and get through over the summer because I just don't see why we can't study Wales from the classical perspective.
We have our own mythology and it's as rich as any other one. And apparently we can at some point, hopefully study the Magiovinium and mediaeval welsh.
Well, there's absolutely evidence to say that there were but around the classical period,
and this all did filter down through and it just took them a little longer to get it written down.
So I'm very interested to see that at some point, to my degree, that sounds really, really interesting, though.
And also, I suppose from an archaeological perspective, there's so much in Wales that is that is relevant.
And I know you can study, for example, with the cities and settlements option for finals,
which covers a huge variety of different parts of of the then Roman Empire,
but does also kind of give you the opportunity to find things a little bit closer to home in Roman Britain as well.
Well, I just feel like in school in particular, and I feel like this probably applies to you, lots of Welsh schools,
but poetry was like very much celebrated in school like we always had, like the annual Eisteddfod with the with the chairing of the bard.
And we were encouraged to write poetry and encouraged to read poetry.
I just think poetry is such a big, big thing in Wales, and I think that did.
I definitely think that has already said at the time it impact my final choices.
I think I did a lot of poetry, a lot of Latin poetry, Greek Greek poetry.
So I definitely think having having that background, I wasn't necessarily going to get so much down the history, so much on the philosophy.
I was very much yet the kind of world literature focussed options.
Are there any ways that you think universities,
I suppose thinking from an Oxford Classics perspective could try and help make classics more accessible to
Welsh students who might not yet know that they have the opportunity to study classics or it's a subject for them.
Well, you know, to be perfectly honest, I think Oxford are doing a really good job already.
You know, they've got some students UNIQ summer schools, and I did a few sort of open day type things I think is Oxford Pathways, I want to say.
And then you could come up to Oxford to go and have a look around the town and stay overnight and have some lectures and things like that.
So I think that's really helpful.
But I think I'm also quite lucky in the fact that my teachers were really pushing to get kids into into Oxbridge, no matter the subject.
So I think maybe keep going with that with what they're doing because perhaps not all schools will have teachers,
you know, as good as mine who are as keen to get people to go and study what they want to do.
From from where I sit, I think Wales needs to up its game in mid-Wales with the schools,
they need to have better access for higher education and these I know Wales is pushing for its students to be in higher educational places.
It's why they gave us more student finance and better access to all this money
so that we can go to universities like Oxford and study these big subjects.
But it needs to come back into Wales and they need to give us better tools to gear us up to go to these places.
Yes, I definitely agree with everything that Ellie said.
I think there's just a big problem in general, not only in Wales, but in England as well,
with the fact that classics like Latin, ancient Greek, it tends to be reserved for private schools in particular,
which I think is just such a shame that, you know,
so there are so many people who just have never even had a taste of classics, and I think hopefully over time.
I mean, I mean, even in my school, I did go to a private school and like I said, I studied Latin from year 8
And I remember when I when I decided to carry to take Latin in sixth form,
I actually had quite a big problem even getting to classes a because I was the only student in my entire 6th form studying Latin.
And B, they were actually going to basically stop people because there was no one else doing it.
They were actually going to stop it completely.
And it's actually a bit it's even unclear like if if I hadn't done it, whether you know, they would have stopped it completely forever after.
In my particular sixth form, which is such a shame, I think.
Yeah. Like so it's even within private schools and in Wales, or at least in my experience, it's not even that popular.
Whereas I remember speaking to fellow students in Oxford who had studied Latin in schools in England and their Latin classes had like 40 people.
So I think in Wales, yeah, we are like disadvantaged in like in two ways there.
But I think until that particular issue with schools is resolved and the accessibility of of Latin of classics in general,
I think just getting out in the community more is really important.
Like I was involved in a really great initiative in Oxford called the Iris Project, led by Dr. Lorna Robinson,
where Oxford Classics undergrads would go and teach community classes for free in a particular state school in Oxford called Cheney School.
And that's an excellent initiative.
But I don't really know of any kind of similar thing in schools in Cardiff or elsewhere in Wales that there possibly is.
Maybe I just don't know about it, but I think just kind of getting it out there.
And my my experience with the Iris classics product is that there are lots of people of all ages who are so interested in Latin, in ancient Greek,
but just simply because of they just haven't had access to it.
That is literally the only reason why they just haven't studied and so many of them.
You could if you could see that if they'd done it from a young age, they probably might have even gone and studied at university.
So I think, yeah, accessibility is just a huge, huge one.
And any other problems we see in England are just amplified in Wales, I think.
And the name of this overall project is representative classics.
do you feel that there are ways in which Oxford classics could be more representative, both of its subject and the diversity of different elements.
You can study of the ancient world and also of its students, staff and alumni body, are there ways it can be more representative.
I would say I think there's like still very much a stigma attached to what it means to study or a stigma.
But I also suppose like a perception of who exactly is studying classics at Oxford, like, you know, me being a black woman who's from Wales.
And, you know, when I tell people that I studied classics at Oxford, that kind of like what?
Like, I thought it was all kind of privately educated, like white boys who went to Eton, who studied classics at Oxford.
So I think just like, maybe it would be great if Oxford could amplify more in the kind of in in different,
different ways, whether it be on like various different platforms, you know, the different types.
All sorts of people are studying classics at Oxford. And, you know, it's not just like a certain type of people, it's women.
It's people who've come from state schools, it's people of colour.
And I think, yeah, just amplifying that like even. Yeah, the the whole the fact that this podcast is taking place is absolutely amazing.
I think just getting that out more and more that there is a there's a place for you if you want to study classics to Oxford and
you don't have to necessarily fit a certain mould that many people kind of expect of like a typical classics student in Oxford.
Thank you for that really insightful response.
As you say, we hope this podcast goes some way, and it's a small part of this wider project and other work to increase representation to show that we,
as members of the Oxford Classics community,
do and can come from a wide cross-section of society and to change the way that some people perceive the subject that we all love.
Now, Ellie, you are studying at Regent's Park College,
which many students might not have actually heard of because it's one of the smaller colleges.
Reem, you also you were Christchurch.
There's a very, you know, there's great difference there in terms of your actual lived Oxford experience within your college.
It would be interesting to hear from both of you sort of the perspectives in the pros and cons of not necessarily the specifics,
but more just in terms of size between the different types of college there are in Oxford.
Well, I love Regent's Park College. I think it's fabulous. It is very small, but the community is incredible.
You get to, you know,
everyone in your group from the first like two days and then you meet everyone from the other year groups very quickly afterwards,
obviously with COVID. It wasn't quite as a complete introduction,
but I think it's just it's really nice how we can have such a tight knit community and everyone knows each
other and you just walk around college and there's always someone to talk to who you know pretty well.
And we know, we know all the staff really well. I know I can always go to any of the student welfare reps or any of the staff with any problem I have,
and they they immediately know exactly who I am,
and everything is just so easily sorted within a few minutes because everyone just knows each other on a really personal level.
So I think you should definitely go to Regent's Park College and you do also have as tortoise right?
We do. We have Manny. She is the oldest at Oxford and we had a birthday party for her last time, which is very exciting.
She's 119 now, apparently. Wow. Like, you say Katrina
Yeah, Christchurch is one of the biggest, biggest colleges.
Am I correct me if I'm wrong? But I think it's got about 400 undergraduates to really big.
I really enjoyed it. Absolutely. You know, now that I've finished, yeah, I have no regrets about choosing a big college.
Just getting to, I guess, just having like different different groups of people to talk to you.
I definitely see Ellie's point that I definitely do.
You think he would know much more people on a on a personal level than I did?
But then at the same time, yeah, if you kind of want to hang out with these people one day or like these people,
it just felt like there was never a shortage of people to get to know.
And I definitely yeah, didn't get to know everyone, which in some ways like, I think, choice of college, like it's like a personal thing.
Some people might not, might not like that. They might prefer a small, a smaller college.
Some people might like this like massive college bops where you don't necessarily know anyone.
So I think I just say, go for the go for what you feel, where you feel most at home when you visit.
Are there any other myths, though, about Oxford or Oxford classics or the study of classics in general that you would like to dispel?
Yeah. So I think a myth some people think Oxford is Oh, everybody must be super brilliant, right?
Well, yeah, you're clever, but you know, I'll say it myself. You know, you're not that amazing.
Down to the day, there are lots of people equally as bright or more bright at other places or studying other subjects.
And people always think, you know, all you're doing is work, work, work I think as long as you're fairly strict with yourself in terms of your workload, if you work hard,
then you can have it pretty active social life and, you know, go to the gym or whatever and have fun and get your work done.
And I think it's, you know, it's up to the individual how much pressure they put on themselves if they really, really want to get a first.
You know, you can choose to work every hour of the day, but equally, you know,
if you you you want to go to Oxford and have a good time, you can have an active social life.
Do you work and still get a good degree at the end/
I suppose I wanted to talk about how people often people from, Wales don't really understand what classics is.
I remember I had a teacher and I was saying, Oh, I'm thinking about applying for classics and this is a history teacher as well at that.
And he said, You know, what's that? And sort of, why don't you just go and study this other subject instead?
So I think it's allowing people to understand that if you do go and study ancient history or archaeology,
it doesn't mean that you're going to have to end up being a teacher or end up doing being an archaeologist or working in a museum or whatever.
An Oxford degree, it can help you go and do numerous different things.
So just because you go and study a subject which isn't traditionally vocational,
so law, for example, you can go into a number of things after your degree.
I think that was something that I sort of faced when I told a lot of people that I was going to go and study ancient history.
Is that? Yeah. But what's the point in that? What what are you going to do with it? So I guess, yeah, I guess that's my main point.
And I think just that classics is very much like again in the least kind of cheesy way possible, but it's very much alive.
I think again, as we've already discussed, there's like a huge issue with people just not being aware of what classics is and who who.
The kind of big names in classics are obviously that there are people who have have tried to,
like, bring it into the public sphere, like Mary Beard, for example.
But yeah, I just think not enough people know that, you know, it's it's very much alive.
It's such a rich subject. It's not a boring subject like I've got just quite used to now people just assuming that my degree was boring, for example.
But I just think, wow, I really do think that's just such a misconception about what it means to study ancient languages and in the ancient world.
And I would just encourage anyone who's even just vaguely interested in it just yet.
Give it, give it a try. And I think the the Oxford classics course, in my experience is, yeah,
it's it's obviously one of the best and it's just going to offer you such an opportunity to explore anything you want within within the ancient world.
Like, I think, I believe in finals. There are eight options eight options which just proves to you.
Like how much you can study.
I remember, like in in my college, like as finalists, I swear we all came up with like a different degrees, even though we all study classics.
You know, I had a friend who is of my year and he was like, you know, doing like all history papers,
like Greek history papers, whereas I was doing like the complete opposite. And it's just, yeah, I just think, yeah, give it a chance.
And then in terms of Oxford, I think as well just I feel like so many people, I feel like everyone goes through this.
But you just don't think Oxford is for you or you're not clever enough for Oxford or you're not good.
You won't fit in an Oxford, but I can honestly say like I,
I met amazing people during my time there and there really is someone for everyone and you will fit it in.
And it's just just really don't listen to the to the stereotypes that are kind of
peddled about in the media or like elsewhere or even by family and friends.
Just just take a chance and yeah, just go for it.
And yeah, I'm sure, like everyone who's got in would say, you know, I can't believe that you've got a bit like, yeah,
just if like, I could get in, if Ellie could get in, if Katrina could get in like just, yeah, just believe in yourself and go for it.
Indeed, excellent advice. And Ellie, I would definitely agree about the misconception of it being like unapproachable you.
will be supported just as well. So I think you just you need to believe in yourself a little bit.
And just if they think your mind is up to it, you just turn up and they'll help you with the rest.
Fantastic. Well, on that really positive note, I'd like to say thank you so much for an excellent conversation.
It's been a real pleasure talking to you and hearing your perspectives on Oxfordclassics.
So thank you so much for joining us for this episode of regional classics and to you for listening as well.