1 00:00:00,900 --> 00:00:05,280 Hello and welcome to Regional Classics, a podcast from the University of Oxford, 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:12,150 which reflects and celebrates the diverse voices of Oxford classicists past and present from different parts of the UK. 3 00:00:12,150 --> 00:00:19,590 All the while creating thought provoking conversations, breaking down barriers and showing that if you want to study the ancient world, 4 00:00:19,590 --> 00:00:26,890 any aspect: politics, history, arts, science, literature, culture and much more than you can. 5 00:00:26,890 --> 00:00:32,220 Oxford classicists do not and need not come from only a narrow cross-section of society. 6 00:00:32,220 --> 00:00:39,240 Welcome to this Welsh episode of regional classics, and I'm delighted to be joined by Lewys Griffiths, 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:47,400 who has just completed his classical archaeology and ancient history undergraduate degree at St John's College and recorded separately. 8 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:57,210 It was a pleasure to be joined by Reem Ahmed, a former classical student at Christchurch College and now a trainee reporter for Media Wales. 9 00:00:57,210 --> 00:01:03,390 And by Ellie Williams, an undergraduate studying classics and English at Regent's Park College. 10 00:01:03,390 --> 00:01:11,550 So Reem, I wondered if you could just start by telling us whereabouts you are actually from in Wales and when you first encountered the ancient world? 11 00:01:11,550 --> 00:01:15,360 Yeah. So yeah, firstly, thank you so much for inviting me on. 12 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,850 So I'm from Cardiff. I've lived there pretty much my whole life, grew up there, went to school there, 13 00:01:20,850 --> 00:01:24,750 and I was thinking about this when I first encountered the ancient world. 14 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:30,690 I think in an in an informal level, it was probably the Percy Jackson series, the book series. 15 00:01:30,690 --> 00:01:38,430 And I remember when I was in probably like Year five or six, just like devouring those books and just absolutely loving it. 16 00:01:38,430 --> 00:01:44,820 But I think, yeah, on a formal level, when I seriously started, I guess, studying the ancient world, 17 00:01:44,820 --> 00:01:50,910 that was probably when I started learning Latin in school, which would have been Year eight. 18 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:54,570 So yeah, that was when my first encounters of the ancient world. 19 00:01:54,570 --> 00:01:59,350 Fantastic. How about you, Ellie? I think my experience was very different. 20 00:01:59,350 --> 00:02:06,120 I'm from the rural mid-Wales right on the border, and I went through the Welsh education system up until college. 21 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:13,710 And then I was kind of forced to cross the border because there wasn't a really viable option for me here where I could study classics. 22 00:02:13,710 --> 00:02:22,830 I'd gone to an open day at Hereford sixth form college and been handed this little flyer, and I've seen on the front of it famous people who study classics. 23 00:02:22,830 --> 00:02:26,520 And I saw Chris Martin and I just thought, why not? 24 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,920 So off I went over to England and I absolutely loved studying classics. 25 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:38,430 And so then I ended up applying to Oxford for it. My experience at Oxford doing the intensive course was mind blowing. 26 00:02:38,430 --> 00:02:43,980 Never thought I could learn a language in a year, so I'm from a tiny, tiny village. 27 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:49,830 It's called Groesfaen it's sort of near Caerphilly, just north of Cardiff, in South Wales. 28 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:52,890 And then I went to a Welsh medium comprehensive school 29 00:02:52,890 --> 00:03:00,000 and to be perfectly honest to answer your question about how I first sort of encountered the ancient world. 30 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,590 Not 100 percent sure I do have a specific moment in time. 31 00:03:03,590 --> 00:03:09,510 I guess, you know, Mary Beard's BBC documentary is an amazing sort of introduction, 32 00:03:09,510 --> 00:03:13,110 so it could have been those that sort of kicked off the passion. 33 00:03:13,110 --> 00:03:19,860 But I don't have a particular moment that I can remember thinking, Oh, this is a new subject, that kind of thing. 34 00:03:19,860 --> 00:03:24,750 Did you ever get the chance to study any ancient subjects within your primary and secondary school? 35 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:29,610 Then you mentioned it was Wales speaking which adds an extra interesting element. Yeah, exactly. 36 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:34,800 No, not at all. I never, ever studied anything to do with the ancient world whilst I was at school. 37 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:43,240 You can't say in Latin, in in sort of Welsh medium education that the the option is not there to do it through like 38 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:51,600 the Welsh language exam board and even, you know, when I studied history and stuff in school didn't do anything to the Romans or the Greeks. 39 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,470 And there's definitely no classical civilisation on offer, either. 40 00:03:55,470 --> 00:04:03,360 So I think it can be difficult to get into that kind of thing if you are from Wales and particularly if you do go to Welsh language school because, 41 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:10,440 you know, if it's not as a subject which you're need to do or choose to do, you've got to go off and do it on your own. 42 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:18,000 But certainly I'm intrigued, therefore, how you found this passion for not just classical archaeology, but also the ancient history. 43 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,150 So there must have been a point at which you decided this was the degree that you wanted to study. 44 00:04:22,150 --> 00:04:28,920 So what was your thinking when you were sort of 16, 17, 18 about about what your academic future might be? 45 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:36,180 Yeah, that's the thing, really, isn't it? So I always wanted to go and study history when I was thinking about going off to uni, 46 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:44,250 and I volunteered at an amazing museum near Cardiff called St Fagans Natural History Museum or Folk Museum. 47 00:04:44,250 --> 00:04:48,270 And one of the sort of displays that got there is called Bryn Eryr, 48 00:04:48,270 --> 00:04:55,110 and it's like a sort of Iron Age settlement and it's a reconstruction of this farm. 49 00:04:55,110 --> 00:05:00,410 And and as part of that, they were we could help out in painting the walls in like traditional methods, except. 50 00:05:00,410 --> 00:05:07,670 Etc. Anyway, this this settlement is set, that's exactly when the Romans came into came into Britain, sort of. 51 00:05:07,670 --> 00:05:15,230 Well, it's there's about the time of Boudica's conquests of 60 A.D. I remember thinking, Wow, this is a really interesting period of history. 52 00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:22,460 I've studied history in school, but never really had a chance to properly study, you know, the Romans or the Greeks, etcetera. 53 00:05:22,460 --> 00:05:27,110 And I think it was then I decided to well, actually, instead of going to study history for three years, 54 00:05:27,110 --> 00:05:31,190 maybe I should say that the ancient history and archaeology three years as something different, 55 00:05:31,190 --> 00:05:38,630 you know, just to branch out something a bit more interesting. And so Reem, obviously, you got that chance to study Latin from year 8 56 00:05:38,630 --> 00:05:44,090 But at what was the point when you thought, actually, this is something I want to study further on and especially at university? 57 00:05:44,090 --> 00:05:51,650 Yes. So I would say my A-levels are probably not typically what a classic student at Oxford would would have done. 58 00:05:51,650 --> 00:05:56,450 So I actually did biology, chemistry, maths and Latin A-level, 59 00:05:56,450 --> 00:06:03,200 basically throughout most of year 12 I was actually quite set on doing medicine in a university, 60 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:10,880 mainly because my family is kind of all involved in medicine, but then yeah, it was once I like had work experience, 61 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:16,730 I kind of decided that medicine wasn't for me, and I suppose I did a bit of soul searching. 62 00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:24,470 Just thinking about it was quite quite late at this point, I think it was the summer between year 12 and 13, and I was just thinking, You know what? 63 00:06:24,470 --> 00:06:29,000 What do I really enjoy? Like what? What subject here really kind of gets me up in the morning. 64 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,160 What do I look forward to the most in school? 65 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:39,140 And it was Latin, basically, and it was the one thing that I'd carried on and I couldn't bear to part with it in year 13. 66 00:06:39,140 --> 00:06:43,340 And I just decided, You know what? How about I kind of look into classics? 67 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:47,270 And yeah, I remember kind of scouring university websites. 68 00:06:47,270 --> 00:06:52,490 Just what does classics entail? Because I would probably say by this point, yeah. 69 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:59,610 Apart from Percy Jackson and Latin, my knowledge of classics of that age probably wasn't very broad. 70 00:06:59,610 --> 00:07:07,640 So there was a lot of kind of exploring in that summer and what it classics is because I pretty much realised, you know, this is this is for me. 71 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:13,520 Yeah, the idea of like studying ancient Greek as well with an amazing kind of context. 72 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:20,660 So yeah, that's that's how I came to my decision. Now, Ellie, you also you don't just do classics, you also do English, I believe. 73 00:07:20,660 --> 00:07:24,470 So what made you decide to do that? That joint honours course? 74 00:07:24,470 --> 00:07:30,080 I took I took four A-levels and then it got to the point where they said, you have to choose a degree. 75 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,160 I might add that this was a very long time after they told me to apply to Oxford. 76 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,500 It was apply to Oxford, and then it was choose a degree, 77 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:41,840 and I basically looked at my four A-levels and I thought, how many of these can I bear to part with? 78 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:48,050 And I ended up keeping classics in English. Was there a difference in how the subject was perceived at school and also at home? 79 00:07:48,050 --> 00:07:53,570 The thing about South Wales, I think you need to know is like it's Cardiff, and then everything radiates out from that, 80 00:07:53,570 --> 00:07:57,620 and everything kind of leads back to Cardiff once you get to sort of mid-Wales. 81 00:07:57,620 --> 00:08:02,360 There is no like big anchor and big population with loads of different cultures. 82 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,120 We are a very simple kind of small town dotted around, and it's kind of the same story. 83 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:15,830 Everywhere there wasn't, there wasn't really anyone from my high school who wanted to go to the big sixth form college and study loads of A-levels. 84 00:08:15,830 --> 00:08:21,470 It's a community where the schools are just there to put us through there until we're legally allowed to leave, 85 00:08:21,470 --> 00:08:27,680 and then they'll go back into doing whatever their parents do without informing or they'll do something more hands on. 86 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:35,660 So I think I always kind of just I knew that I couldn't find what I wanted here, and that's kind of what pushed me over the border. 87 00:08:35,660 --> 00:08:39,740 I knew I had to find a place where, like, there were these same people who found all these, 88 00:08:39,740 --> 00:08:46,190 like ancient things as fascinating and exciting, as I did, and what absolutely blew 89 00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:54,410 My mind was when I got into this classics class, it was only the second class that they were running of the class civ A-level at Hereford college. 90 00:08:54,410 --> 00:09:00,620 And unlike all my other classes, you could just walk into that classroom and we would never be off topic. 91 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:06,020 We would always be talking about some kind of myth or some weird thing about what we were studying. 92 00:09:06,020 --> 00:09:11,900 And there was just this kind of atmosphere of us all being really like into what we were talking about, 93 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:15,590 and everyone was just a little bit different and it was amazing. 94 00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:24,260 I've never felt that in my life before, and I think that that's a big problem in mid-Wales, especially there is there is not really a big. 95 00:09:24,260 --> 00:09:28,730 Drive to learn in the way that we would learn at university or even college. 96 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:32,960 So I think not only classics is not really my thing. 97 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:38,790 I don't think in a lot of ways like higher education or the love for learning is a thing. 98 00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:42,260 And classics is like, it is the kind of classic degree. 99 00:09:42,260 --> 00:09:51,320 Wasn't it one of the original ones studied Oxford? You do find it everyone who studies it is just trying to drink up everything they can learn. 100 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,160 And you can tell everyone, just gets so into what they're talking about. 101 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,480 I hadn't experienced any of that before college. Yeah, it's really fascinating. 102 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:05,780 I think the societal and cultural differences that you've talked about there specifically in relation to education. 103 00:10:05,780 --> 00:10:12,230 Is there any advice that you would give to somebody in a similar position who's living in perhaps a slightly different part of mid-Wales who's 104 00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:18,530 maybe also feeling that they haven't got those opportunities or they haven't been able to be part of that sort of intellectual environment yet? 105 00:10:18,530 --> 00:10:21,920 I would definitely say that like, you shouldn't follow the crowd. 106 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:27,350 There were only three people from my age group in my high school that went to the sixth form college to study their A-levels, 107 00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:32,180 and everyone else thought we were crazy because we would know nobody, we would be in 108 00:10:32,180 --> 00:10:37,190 this humongous group of a thousand people from this enormous catchment zone. 109 00:10:37,190 --> 00:10:41,970 I have a friend from Pontypool who came to the same college and we now go to Oxford together. 110 00:10:41,970 --> 00:10:45,410 But like geographically, there is no way we should have ever met. 111 00:10:45,410 --> 00:10:50,480 We ended up going to school together for two years because we decided that we really wanted to go to this one place 112 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:56,960 where we knew we would get high quality education and be able to learn about the courses we were really interested in. 113 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:02,780 So I would just say, you don't have to follow your friends, you just go to the college you want to go to and learn what you want to learn. 114 00:11:02,780 --> 00:11:05,540 You'll find friends who are like you wherever you go and ream. 115 00:11:05,540 --> 00:11:10,640 Reem, is there anything that you know looking back that you would say to either your former self with someone in a similar 116 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:16,130 position who doesn't necessarily come to classics that early or is thinking of doing something different, 117 00:11:16,130 --> 00:11:22,340 like you were thinking of doing medicine based on your A-levels. Is there any advice that you would you would see you would give in that situation. 118 00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:29,600 And yet echoing Ellie's point, I think just, you know, you only get like one choice, at an undergraduate degree. 119 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:35,960 And I think it's such a like looking back on it now, now that I'm finished finished with it, 120 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:43,970 it's such a special experience and I think it's a very personal experience and you really should be doing. 121 00:11:43,970 --> 00:11:49,460 I feel quite strongly about this. You should be doing a degree that you genuinely like, want, want to do. 122 00:11:49,460 --> 00:11:54,620 Not that your parents want you to do or like your school is encouraging you to do. 123 00:11:54,620 --> 00:12:02,930 I think if you, for example, yeah, I'd say I definitely say to my younger self, just just go for it and I wish I just wish. 124 00:12:02,930 --> 00:12:09,830 I'd kind of realised that early and realised that option was very much open to me before I even entered like sixth form. 125 00:12:09,830 --> 00:12:17,450 And I'm sure if I felt that since year 11, my A-level choices would have been very different, possibly. 126 00:12:17,450 --> 00:12:21,620 So yeah, I just think it's without sounding too cheesy. 127 00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:28,220 I just really think university is such a special experience that we're so lucky to have. 128 00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:34,880 So just take full, full opportunity of it and and do something that you genuinely really enjoy. 129 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:41,780 And I would say, especially if you're considering applying to Oxford because it's it's not a myth that the workload is it's tough. 130 00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:46,820 And I think what often got me through is the love I had for classics. 131 00:12:46,820 --> 00:12:52,190 And, you know, that kind of that's what kind of gets you all excited like Ellie was saying. 132 00:12:52,190 --> 00:12:57,110 And and it's nice to be in that environment where you know you're excited and other people are excited. 133 00:12:57,110 --> 00:13:04,220 So I think it's just really important to choose something that you genuinely from, almost like from the bottom of your heart. 134 00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:10,340 And yeah, enjoy. Coming to Oxford to study a subject which you've never done before. 135 00:13:10,340 --> 00:13:16,070 I sort of felt like I was, you know, a few steps behind other people because some people had already studied Latin, 136 00:13:16,070 --> 00:13:23,900 or they'd done Greek in school or they'd done classical civilisation, so might have had sort of a foundation of knowledge, which I didn't have. 137 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:29,870 So I was kind of playing catch up with that, you know, which ended up being perfectly fine. 138 00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:36,470 But it is a little bit daunting. But I guess, you know, you don't need to worry about that because you will be OK. 139 00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:44,180 And in terms of how my background, you know, how it affected, how when I came to Oxford, I think meeting like minded people. 140 00:13:44,180 --> 00:13:49,760 So I spent a lot of time in the Oxford Welsh society. 141 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,620 So sort of meeting other people who speak Welsh or other Welsh people as well and just being 142 00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:59,240 able to socialise with them and realising that there are other people like you at Oxford, 143 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,750 you're not completely on your own as it were. That's great to hear Lewys. 144 00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:05,880 That was such a strong Welsh community in Oxford, too. 145 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:13,730 And Reem how has your classics degree influenced your choice of career and your experience so far as as a journalist? 146 00:14:13,730 --> 00:14:23,770 Yes. So and I would say with, yeah, with my choice of career in Oxford, we wrote so, so many essays like All the time and I've always loved writing. 147 00:14:23,770 --> 00:14:30,850 Classics always allowed me to do lots of essays, lots of writing, and that's like the same, 148 00:14:30,850 --> 00:14:36,430 yeah, in my career now, writing all the time, it's literally my job. 149 00:14:36,430 --> 00:14:39,970 And yeah, I would say in terms of the kind of choice, 150 00:14:39,970 --> 00:14:45,880 possibly the choice of career that was more influenced by my extracurricular activities in Oxford. 151 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,520 So I did quite a lot of student journalism as well. 152 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:54,530 But I would definitely say with the breadth of classics, what that was one of my favourite aspects of classics. 153 00:14:54,530 --> 00:14:56,620 It was just the sheer breadth of the subject. 154 00:14:56,620 --> 00:15: So even though I kind of went into it through Latin primarily I was kind of opened up to this whole world of archaeology, 155 00:15:04,780 --> 00:15:09,130 history, philosophy and one of the things I realised. 156 00:15:09,130 --> 00:15:16,240 I think that's what drew me to classics very much in the first place when I was first exploring is that I love that breadth of knowledge. 157 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:24,220 Like, I love the idea of studying something where it's not just that it's you can study so many different things. 158 00:15:24,220 --> 00:15:30,130 And I feel like that translates into my current career. I get to report on all sorts of things. 159 00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:39,010 I do everything from like hard news to restaurant reviews to experience stories, first-person stories. 160 00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:46,610 So, yeah, I'd say that translation has been really nice, maybe in terms of like skills that I've learnt, 161 00:15:46,610 --> 00:15:50,890 like attention to detail, thinking critically, things like that. 162 00:15:50,890 --> 00:15:56,980 Everything which I think classics really encourages all skills that I've been able to transfer. 163 00:15:56,980 --> 00:16:04,060 And Lewys, do you think that your degree in particular, I suppose, of combining those two very different sides of archaeology and history has really 164 00:16:04,060 --> 00:16:08,410 developed those skills and helped you as you're looking for your future career? 165 00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:11,950 And do you have any plans on that front? Yeah, definitely. 166 00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:17,770 I think because you have sort of two, I guess in some ways, they're similar in other ways, they're different sides. 167 00:16:17,770 --> 00:16:23,650 The degree you've got to think quite flexibly, you're approaching every sort of problem from two different perspectives. 168 00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:27,760 You know, you're looking at it from an archaeological point of view and an historical point of view, 169 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:34,170 and look at the different sources and things which you can use together and to answer your second question. 170 00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:41,050 Yeah. So I'm very fortunate in that I've managed to get myself a training contract with a commercial law firm. 171 00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:50,890 So once I've finished, I'm going to study law, so I'm doing the law conversion course and then I'm training as a commercial solicitor. 172 00:16:50,890 --> 00:16:57,400 So hopefully a fairly good career. But we'll wait and see how the world of work is. 173 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,800 Going back a little bit to your degree, what were some of your favourite aspects then of the course, 174 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:09,100 but also the ancient past of the ancient world and those connections that you can draw between the archaeology and the history? 175 00:17:09,100 --> 00:17:15,940 Yeah. So I think probably my favourite part of the degree is the fact that you get to handle some of these ancient objects. 176 00:17:15,940 --> 00:17:20,110 So in particular, I did a really niche module on Greek and Roman coins. 177 00:17:20,110 --> 00:17:25,510 I don't think there are many other places that you can do that sort of work at an undergraduate level. 178 00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:33,340 It just happened to be that I was really interested in them. But because, you know, the uni is associated with the Ashmolean museum. 179 00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:36,070 We got to go into the museum and handle these coins. 180 00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:43,300 So you're studying these things and seeing the changes in the coinage and then you also getting to hold it in your hand and then, you know, 181 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:49,030 you're holding some pieces, which there are only a few in the in the entire world and then it's in your hand, right in front of you. 182 00:17:49,030 --> 00:17:49,600 So I think, yeah, 183 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:57,310 that's really exciting and an opportunity which you get for studying sort of ancient history and archaeology at Oxford is that you get these 184 00:17:57,310 --> 00:18:04,900 first hand experiences of the material culture as part of the CAAH degree before you do something called a museum report or a site report. 185 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:06,800 And that definitely, you know, 186 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:13,900 is interdisciplinary that you use both the archaeology and historical sources to study a particular object or site. 187 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:20,860 So I studied, it's a funerary relief from outside of Rome. 188 00:18:20,860 --> 00:18:25,510 So I looked at something very niche and I was looking at how freed women, 189 00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:31,150 so female slaves, how they represented themselves and their funerary monuments. 190 00:18:31,150 --> 00:18:36,850 And I also meant I get I got to go out to Rome to go and have a look at this relief. 191 00:18:36,850 --> 00:18:40,510 And I think that is interesting. Is that in with this part of the course, 192 00:18:40,510 --> 00:18:47,440 the museum report aside report that you can study anything you want and leave with the combining classics in English. 193 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:53,530 Are there any interdisciplinary links between the two subjects that you found that you particularly enjoy? 194 00:18:53,530 --> 00:18:58,240 And I think something that I definitely stress a lot when I was interviewed because they like to ask you 195 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,380 why you choose wacky things like classics and English is I really do think they just go together so well. 196 00:19:03,380 --> 00:19:09,880 You can, like you do, study the literature as a classicist, but then you can extend that as an as an English student. 197 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:15,670 I don't get to study very much cross-disciplinary stuff this year because I'm only doing the first year English. 198 00:19:15,670 --> 00:19:23,740 But the way you can see how classics does inform all these authors and all these books and texts. 199 00:19:23,740 --> 00:19:32,560 That you read later and later, the Percy Jackson books, it all goes back to classics, and I'm sorry, I didn't read the Percy Jackson books. 200 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,520 I read the Pegasus books, which were very good. 201 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:42,550 I must say, if you're a small child, if you want to get small child into classics, I would definitely recommend the Pegasus book, 202 00:19:42,550 --> 00:19:49,150 but you can just you can see how literature is just always built on these core myths and retellings. 203 00:19:49,150 --> 00:19:54,540 And I love how you can look at different cultures and see how they all have their different myths. 204 00:19:54,540 --> 00:20:01,630 Like we wrote an essay this year on the Underworld and in Book Six of the Aeneid. 205 00:20:01,630 --> 00:20:04,960 And I wanted to look at like different cultures takes on it. 206 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:13,330 So I I tried to research some Egyptian underworld myths and then some Babylonian ones, and it was absolutely fascinating. 207 00:20:13,330 --> 00:20:19,450 Not at all relevant to the first year of my degree in the slightest, but I absolutely loved it and I just wanted to read more and more and more. 208 00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:24,550 And it got to the point where I had to sit down and go, You need to go and learn your declensions again. 209 00:20:24,550 --> 00:20:26,890 That's the best bit about classics, though, that it is so broad, 210 00:20:26,890 --> 00:20:33,070 and I would almost argue that certainly Egyptian Babylonian underworld, that is classics too. 211 00:20:33,070 --> 00:20:40,810 The prixe is in its depth and its breadth. Reem, now obviously over the course of your four year course. 212 00:20:40,810 --> 00:20:48,160 Even just doing single classics, you still got the opportunity to do so many different modules and elements of studying the world. 213 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:53,300 Are there any particular interdisciplinary elements that you really enjoyed studying? 214 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:59,630 Yeah, definitely the two that are in my mind were so I studied Hellenistic and poetry. 215 00:20:59,630 --> 00:21:04,070 And then I also studied Hellenistic art and archaeology. 216 00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:06,290 And it's like a separate module. 217 00:21:06,290 --> 00:21:16,280 And yet I just absolutely loved how what you could see in the literature in the poetry was then translated into visual arts and archaeology. 218 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:24,380 I absolutely love that. And then in a similar way, I studied Neronian literature, and I also studied. 219 00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:28,400 So this, by the way, I should probably say this is my final modules. 220 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:34,610 I studied these both of these in years three and four, and so I studied Neronian literature. 221 00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:42,350 Then I also studied History Module, which was called Nero to Hadrian, the period that came from Nero to Hadrian. 222 00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:52,020 And yet again, it was it was great to see what was within within the literature and kind of then having that context in the history, 223 00:21:52,020 --> 00:21:59,030 or at least the kind of early part of of that module. It was just really nice how they complement each other. 224 00:21:59,030 --> 00:22:05,540 And I think that that's actually something I'd recommend to people and to Oxford Classics undergrads, you know, 225 00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:10,520 choosing their finals options and the more you could get them to complement each other, it just makes things easier. 226 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:16,280 And it's just it gives you, I think, a much richer understanding of like a certain period. 227 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,600 And just looking at it from different angles is really nice. Fantastic. 228 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:27,110 A couple of other speakers on this podcast have have made reference to their backgrounds and how it's actually really 229 00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:33,080 closely affected the types of module or the types of literature or history or art that they've studied as part of classics. 230 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:41,270 And I wondered, how do you think that your Welsh background may or may not have influenced some of the elements of research that you've done, 231 00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:45,290 and particularly Ellie perhaps with your sort of more rural background in Mid Wales? 232 00:22:45,290 --> 00:22:49,820 I wonder if that's influenced the types of literature that you enjoy reading and studying? 233 00:22:49,820 --> 00:22:55,370 Actually, I did. I emailed someone a few weeks ago and I was asking them if there was anything I 234 00:22:55,370 --> 00:22:59,990 could do to delve into what exactly was going on in Wales in the classical period, 235 00:22:59,990 --> 00:23:02,060 and they sent me a big reading list. 236 00:23:02,060 --> 00:23:08,810 I'm going to try and get through over the summer because I just don't see why we can't study Wales from the classical perspective. 237 00:23:08,810 --> 00:23:17,690 We have our own mythology and it's as rich as any other one. And apparently we can at some point, hopefully study the Magiovinium and mediaeval welsh. 238 00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:22,850 Well, there's absolutely evidence to say that there were but around the classical period, 239 00:23:22,850 --> 00:23:26,930 and this all did filter down through and it just took them a little longer to get it written down. 240 00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:31,280 So I'm very interested to see that at some point, to my degree, that sounds really, really interesting, though. 241 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,230 And also, I suppose from an archaeological perspective, there's so much in Wales that is that is relevant. 242 00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:40,790 And I know you can study, for example, with the cities and settlements option for finals, 243 00:23:40,790 --> 00:23:45,410 which covers a huge variety of different parts of of the then Roman Empire, 244 00:23:45,410 --> 00:23:51,690 but does also kind of give you the opportunity to find things a little bit closer to home in Roman Britain as well. 245 00:23:51,690 --> 00:23:57,750 Well, I just feel like in school in particular, and I feel like this probably applies to you, lots of Welsh schools, 246 00:23:57,750 --> 00:24:07,620 but poetry was like very much celebrated in school like we always had, like the annual Eisteddfod with the with the chairing of the bard. 247 00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:13,050 And we were encouraged to write poetry and encouraged to read poetry. 248 00:24:13,050 --> 00:24:17,800 I just think poetry is such a big, big thing in Wales, and I think that did. 249 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:23,190 I definitely think that has already said at the time it impact my final choices. 250 00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:27,570 I think I did a lot of poetry, a lot of Latin poetry, Greek Greek poetry. 251 00:24:27,570 --> 00:24:35,280 So I definitely think having having that background, I wasn't necessarily going to get so much down the history, so much on the philosophy. 252 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,330 I was very much yet the kind of world literature focussed options. 253 00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:42,240 Are there any ways that you think universities, 254 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:48,240 I suppose thinking from an Oxford Classics perspective could try and help make classics more accessible to 255 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:54,060 Welsh students who might not yet know that they have the opportunity to study classics or it's a subject for them. 256 00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:57,750 Well, you know, to be perfectly honest, I think Oxford are doing a really good job already. 257 00:24:57,750 --> 00:25:07,470 You know, they've got some students UNIQ summer schools, and I did a few sort of open day type things I think is Oxford Pathways, I want to say. 258 00:25:07,470 --> 00:25:13,320 And then you could come up to Oxford to go and have a look around the town and stay overnight and have some lectures and things like that. 259 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,820 So I think that's really helpful. 260 00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:23,190 But I think I'm also quite lucky in the fact that my teachers were really pushing to get kids into into Oxbridge, no matter the subject. 261 00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:30,090 So I think maybe keep going with that with what they're doing because perhaps not all schools will have teachers, 262 00:25:30,090 --> 00:25:35,700 you know, as good as mine who are as keen to get people to go and study what they want to do. 263 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:42,660 From from where I sit, I think Wales needs to up its game in mid-Wales with the schools, 264 00:25:42,660 --> 00:25:52,340 they need to have better access for higher education and these I know Wales is pushing for its students to be in higher educational places. 265 00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:56,880 It's why they gave us more student finance and better access to all this money 266 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,710 so that we can go to universities like Oxford and study these big subjects. 267 00:26:01,710 --> 00:26:10,320 But it needs to come back into Wales and they need to give us better tools to gear us up to go to these places. 268 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,430 Yes, I definitely agree with everything that Ellie said. 269 00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:20,310 I think there's just a big problem in general, not only in Wales, but in England as well, 270 00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:27,540 with the fact that classics like Latin, ancient Greek, it tends to be reserved for private schools in particular, 271 00:26:27,540 --> 00:26:30,720 which I think is just such a shame that, you know, 272 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:39,300 so there are so many people who just have never even had a taste of classics, and I think hopefully over time. 273 00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:47,280 I mean, I mean, even in my school, I did go to a private school and like I said, I studied Latin from year 8 274 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:54,870 And I remember when I when I decided to carry to take Latin in sixth form, 275 00:26:54,870 --> 00:27:03,620 I actually had quite a big problem even getting to classes a because I was the only student in my entire 6th form studying Latin. 276 00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:09,450 And B, they were actually going to basically stop people because there was no one else doing it. 277 00:27:09,450 --> 00:27:12,150 They were actually going to stop it completely. 278 00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:21,430 And it's actually a bit it's even unclear like if if I hadn't done it, whether you know, they would have stopped it completely forever after. 279 00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:25,620 In my particular sixth form, which is such a shame, I think. 280 00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:33,500 Yeah. Like so it's even within private schools and in Wales, or at least in my experience, it's not even that popular. 281 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:47,190 Whereas I remember speaking to fellow students in Oxford who had studied Latin in schools in England and their Latin classes had like 40 people. 282 00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:53,910 So I think in Wales, yeah, we are like disadvantaged in like in two ways there. 283 00:27:53,910 --> 00:28:01,470 But I think until that particular issue with schools is resolved and the accessibility of of Latin of classics in general, 284 00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:05,920 I think just getting out in the community more is really important. 285 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:14,880 Like I was involved in a really great initiative in Oxford called the Iris Project, led by Dr. Lorna Robinson, 286 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:23,970 where Oxford Classics undergrads would go and teach community classes for free in a particular state school in Oxford called Cheney School. 287 00:28:23,970 --> 00:28:26,220 And that's an excellent initiative. 288 00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:33,900 But I don't really know of any kind of similar thing in schools in Cardiff or elsewhere in Wales that there possibly is. 289 00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:38,610 Maybe I just don't know about it, but I think just kind of getting it out there. 290 00:28:38,610 --> 00:28:48,960 And my my experience with the Iris classics product is that there are lots of people of all ages who are so interested in Latin, in ancient Greek, 291 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,730 but just simply because of they just haven't had access to it. 292 00:28:53,730 --> 00:29:00,030 That is literally the only reason why they just haven't studied and so many of them. 293 00:29:00,030 --> 00:29:08,340 You could if you could see that if they'd done it from a young age, they probably might have even gone and studied at university. 294 00:29:08,340 --> 00:29:11,970 So I think, yeah, accessibility is just a huge, huge one. 295 00:29:11,970 --> 00:29:17,700 And any other problems we see in England are just amplified in Wales, I think. 296 00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:21,490 And the name of this overall project is representative classics. 297 00:29:21,490 --> 00:29:28,840 do you feel that there are ways in which Oxford classics could be more representative, both of its subject and the diversity of different elements. 298 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:35,130 You can study of the ancient world and also of its students, staff and alumni body, are there ways it can be more representative. 299 00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:43,890 I would say I think there's like still very much a stigma attached to what it means to study or a stigma. 300 00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:55,020 But I also suppose like a perception of who exactly is studying classics at Oxford, like, you know, me being a black woman who's from Wales. 301 00:29:55,020 --> 00:30:00,120 And, you know, when I tell people that I studied classics at Oxford, that kind of like what? 302 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:07,050 Like, I thought it was all kind of privately educated, like white boys who went to Eton, who studied classics at Oxford. 303 00:30:07,050 --> 00:30:16,500 So I think just like, maybe it would be great if Oxford could amplify more in the kind of in in different, 304 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:20,970 different ways, whether it be on like various different platforms, you know, the different types. 305 00:30:20,970 --> 00:30:27,750 All sorts of people are studying classics at Oxford. And, you know, it's not just like a certain type of people, it's women. 306 00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:31,320 It's people who've come from state schools, it's people of colour. 307 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:39,830 And I think, yeah, just amplifying that like even. Yeah, the the whole the fact that this podcast is taking place is absolutely amazing. 308 00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:47,600 I think just getting that out more and more that there is a there's a place for you if you want to study classics to Oxford and 309 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:56,330 you don't have to necessarily fit a certain mould that many people kind of expect of like a typical classics student in Oxford. 310 00:30:56,330 --> 00:30:58,850 Thank you for that really insightful response. 311 00:30:58,850 --> 00:31:07,400 As you say, we hope this podcast goes some way, and it's a small part of this wider project and other work to increase representation to show that we, 312 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,170 as members of the Oxford Classics community, 313 00:31:09,170 --> 00:31:17,400 do and can come from a wide cross-section of society and to change the way that some people perceive the subject that we all love. 314 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,510 Now, Ellie, you are studying at Regent's Park College, 315 00:31:20,510 --> 00:31:25,850 which many students might not have actually heard of because it's one of the smaller colleges. 316 00:31:25,850 --> 00:31:27,500 Reem, you also you were Christchurch. 317 00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:32,660 There's a very, you know, there's great difference there in terms of your actual lived Oxford experience within your college. 318 00:31:32,660 --> 00:31:37,130 It would be interesting to hear from both of you sort of the perspectives in the pros and cons of not necessarily the specifics, 319 00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:42,090 but more just in terms of size between the different types of college there are in Oxford. 320 00:31:42,090 --> 00:31:48,150 Well, I love Regent's Park College. I think it's fabulous. It is very small, but the community is incredible. 321 00:31:48,150 --> 00:31:49,230 You get to, you know, 322 00:31:49,230 --> 00:31:55,590 everyone in your group from the first like two days and then you meet everyone from the other year groups very quickly afterwards, 323 00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:59,640 obviously with COVID. It wasn't quite as a complete introduction, 324 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,890 but I think it's just it's really nice how we can have such a tight knit community and everyone knows each 325 00:32:04,890 --> 00:32:09,690 other and you just walk around college and there's always someone to talk to who you know pretty well. 326 00:32:09,690 --> 00:32:18,360 And we know, we know all the staff really well. I know I can always go to any of the student welfare reps or any of the staff with any problem I have, 327 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,330 and they they immediately know exactly who I am, 328 00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:28,800 and everything is just so easily sorted within a few minutes because everyone just knows each other on a really personal level. 329 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:34,320 So I think you should definitely go to Regent's Park College and you do also have as tortoise right? 330 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:41,130 We do. We have Manny. She is the oldest at Oxford and we had a birthday party for her last time, which is very exciting. 331 00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:46,590 She's 119 now, apparently. Wow. Like, you say Katrina 332 00:32:46,590 --> 00:32:50,430 Yeah, Christchurch is one of the biggest, biggest colleges. 333 00:32:50,430 --> 00:32:56,910 Am I correct me if I'm wrong? But I think it's got about 400 undergraduates to really big. 334 00:32:56,910 --> 00:33:05,400 I really enjoyed it. Absolutely. You know, now that I've finished, yeah, I have no regrets about choosing a big college. 335 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,200 Just getting to, I guess, just having like different different groups of people to talk to you. 336 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,500 I definitely see Ellie's point that I definitely do. 337 00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:18,630 You think he would know much more people on a on a personal level than I did? 338 00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:24,900 But then at the same time, yeah, if you kind of want to hang out with these people one day or like these people, 339 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:28,380 it just felt like there was never a shortage of people to get to know. 340 00:33:28,380 --> 00:33:36,930 And I definitely yeah, didn't get to know everyone, which in some ways like, I think, choice of college, like it's like a personal thing. 341 00:33:36,930 --> 00:33:42,030 Some people might not, might not like that. They might prefer a small, a smaller college. 342 00:33:42,030 --> 00:33:47,440 Some people might like this like massive college bops where you don't necessarily know anyone. 343 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:54,390 So I think I just say, go for the go for what you feel, where you feel most at home when you visit. 344 00:33:54,390 --> 00:34:00,900 Are there any other myths, though, about Oxford or Oxford classics or the study of classics in general that you would like to dispel? 345 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:05,640 Yeah. So I think a myth some people think Oxford is Oh, everybody must be super brilliant, right? 346 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,000 Well, yeah, you're clever, but you know, I'll say it myself. You know, you're not that amazing. 347 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:16,500 Down to the day, there are lots of people equally as bright or more bright at other places or studying other subjects. 348 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:23,620 And people always think, you know, all you're doing is work, work, work I think as long as you're fairly strict with yourself in terms of your workload, if you work hard, 349 00:34:23,620 --> 00:34:31,290 then you can have it pretty active social life and, you know, go to the gym or whatever and have fun and get your work done. 350 00:34:31,290 --> 00:34:38,160 And I think it's, you know, it's up to the individual how much pressure they put on themselves if they really, really want to get a first. 351 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,330 You know, you can choose to work every hour of the day, but equally, you know, 352 00:34:42,330 --> 00:34:46,930 if you you you want to go to Oxford and have a good time, you can have an active social life. 353 00:34:46,930 --> 00:34:49,980 Do you work and still get a good degree at the end/ 354 00:34:49,980 --> 00:34:56,430 I suppose I wanted to talk about how people often people from, Wales don't really understand what classics is. 355 00:34:56,430 --> 00:35:03,330 I remember I had a teacher and I was saying, Oh, I'm thinking about applying for classics and this is a history teacher as well at that. 356 00:35:03,330 --> 00:35:09,030 And he said, You know, what's that? And sort of, why don't you just go and study this other subject instead? 357 00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:15,270 So I think it's allowing people to understand that if you do go and study ancient history or archaeology, 358 00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:22,920 it doesn't mean that you're going to have to end up being a teacher or end up doing being an archaeologist or working in a museum or whatever. 359 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,340 An Oxford degree, it can help you go and do numerous different things. 360 00:35:26,340 --> 00:35:31,050 So just because you go and study a subject which isn't traditionally vocational, 361 00:35:31,050 --> 00:35:36,270 so law, for example, you can go into a number of things after your degree. 362 00:35:36,270 --> 00:35:41,730 I think that was something that I sort of faced when I told a lot of people that I was going to go and study ancient history. 363 00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:48,560 Is that? Yeah. But what's the point in that? What what are you going to do with it? So I guess, yeah, I guess that's my main point. 364 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:55,980 And I think just that classics is very much like again in the least kind of cheesy way possible, but it's very much alive. 365 00:35:55,980 --> 00:36:04,730 I think again, as we've already discussed, there's like a huge issue with people just not being aware of what classics is and who who. 366 00:36:04,730 --> 00:36:11,090 The kind of big names in classics are obviously that there are people who have have tried to, 367 00:36:11,090 --> 00:36:14,990 like, bring it into the public sphere, like Mary Beard, for example. 368 00:36:14,990 --> 00:36:21,650 But yeah, I just think not enough people know that, you know, it's it's very much alive. 369 00:36:21,650 --> 00:36:31,430 It's such a rich subject. It's not a boring subject like I've got just quite used to now people just assuming that my degree was boring, for example. 370 00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:43,400 But I just think, wow, I really do think that's just such a misconception about what it means to study ancient languages and in the ancient world. 371 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:49,010 And I would just encourage anyone who's even just vaguely interested in it just yet. 372 00:36:49,010 --> 00:36:56,820 Give it, give it a try. And I think the the Oxford classics course, in my experience is, yeah, 373 00:36:56,820 --> 00:37:09,860 it's it's obviously one of the best and it's just going to offer you such an opportunity to explore anything you want within within the ancient world. 374 00:37:09,860 --> 00:37:16,250 Like, I think, I believe in finals. There are eight options eight options which just proves to you. 375 00:37:16,250 --> 00:37:18,470 Like how much you can study. 376 00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:28,520 I remember, like in in my college, like as finalists, I swear we all came up with like a different degrees, even though we all study classics. 377 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:35,240 You know, I had a friend who is of my year and he was like, you know, doing like all history papers, 378 00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:42,770 like Greek history papers, whereas I was doing like the complete opposite. And it's just, yeah, I just think, yeah, give it a chance. 379 00:37:42,770 --> 00:37:49,340 And then in terms of Oxford, I think as well just I feel like so many people, I feel like everyone goes through this. 380 00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:54,280 But you just don't think Oxford is for you or you're not clever enough for Oxford or you're not good. 381 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,760 You won't fit in an Oxford, but I can honestly say like I, 382 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:07,100 I met amazing people during my time there and there really is someone for everyone and you will fit it in. 383 00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:12,140 And it's just just really don't listen to the to the stereotypes that are kind of 384 00:38:12,140 --> 00:38:19,430 peddled about in the media or like elsewhere or even by family and friends. 385 00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:22,550 Just just take a chance and yeah, just go for it. 386 00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:30,770 And yeah, I'm sure, like everyone who's got in would say, you know, I can't believe that you've got a bit like, yeah, 387 00:38:30,770 --> 00:38:37,680 just if like, I could get in, if Ellie could get in, if Katrina could get in like just, yeah, just believe in yourself and go for it. 388 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:46,630 Indeed, excellent advice. And Ellie, I would definitely agree about the misconception of it being like unapproachable you. 389 00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:51,320 will be supported just as well. So I think you just you need to believe in yourself a little bit. 390 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,450 And just if they think your mind is up to it, you just turn up and they'll help you with the rest. 391 00:38:56,450 --> 00:39:02,960 Fantastic. Well, on that really positive note, I'd like to say thank you so much for an excellent conversation. 392 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:08,720 It's been a real pleasure talking to you and hearing your perspectives on Oxfordclassics. 393 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:15,339 So thank you so much for joining us for this episode of regional classics and to you for listening as well.