1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:12,480 Okay, everybody, we've we've more or less resolved this. 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,819 That's what the visual problem and then the sound problem. So this is this is the difficulty of technology. 3 00:00:17,820 --> 00:00:28,170 And in Oxford, I'm afraid. Anyway, it's my pleasure to introduce Professor Finding Sandberg, who's come to talk to us today about his research. 4 00:00:28,530 --> 00:00:36,300 Simon is professor of criminology at the University of Oslo, and his research focuses on processes of marginalisation, 5 00:00:36,540 --> 00:00:42,570 violence, masculinity, legal, illegal drugs, radicalisation and social movements. 6 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:51,540 His work falls within both Jersey and narrative criminology, and at the moment he is says, leading a research project. 7 00:00:51,540 --> 00:00:58,079 Perhaps you're writing up your research project on radicalisation and resistance that explores the relationship between everyday religion, 8 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:04,260 extremism and street culture. So I'm very pleased its findings came all the way to talk to us. 9 00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:07,800 [INAUDIBLE] talk for about an hour and then we'll have half an hour of questions at the end. 10 00:01:08,220 --> 00:01:12,959 And he has a sort of multimedia presentation which some of which may work and some of which may not work. 11 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:22,230 It involves thinking with a laptop. So anyway, I'm sorry about the technology, but obviously thanks for inviting me. 12 00:01:22,990 --> 00:01:28,830 It's my first time in Oxford, so I'm a little bit intimidated by the architecture, 13 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:40,290 but I'll do my best and my talk will be on what I describe as the street jihadi nexus. 14 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:52,709 So I focus on how street culture and extreme jihadi subcultures are connected in a radical hybrid street culture that poses a new threat in one way, 15 00:01:52,710 --> 00:01:55,770 but also new limitations for extremist movements. 16 00:01:57,300 --> 00:02:02,210 The work I will present today has been done in close collaboration with Sebastian To The Touch 17 00:02:02,870 --> 00:02:08,160 and who is on the same project as me and Jonathan iGEM at the City University of London. 18 00:02:09,870 --> 00:02:15,990 And the name of the big project is the radicalisation and resistance towards radicalisation. 19 00:02:18,210 --> 00:02:28,470 So to talk and to talk I will start first by saying something about the phenomena where gangsters suddenly become jihadists and explain how 20 00:02:28,470 --> 00:02:35,850 the way produced framework has been used in criminology and the way that the used in criminology can help us understand these processes. 21 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:44,940 I will then move on to two new empirical projects that emphasises resistance. 22 00:02:45,330 --> 00:02:49,830 So that's how we that's why we have this name, radicalisation and resistance. 23 00:02:51,090 --> 00:03:02,310 So we believe that we know a lot about and there's been a lot of studies about why people are radicalised, but we know less about why people don't. 24 00:03:03,930 --> 00:03:10,500 So we want to look at that both in sprinkled culture and among ordinary Muslims. 25 00:03:11,580 --> 00:03:16,530 So these two projects involve ethnographic fieldwork with Muslim street criminals on one hand, 26 00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:22,770 and qualitative interviews with 90 young Muslims on the other side. 27 00:03:23,130 --> 00:03:32,610 Previously, before starting this project, I've done some work on the Breivik terrorist attacks in in Norway a couple of years ago. 28 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,370 And I've also studied the European anti-Islamic movement a little bit. 29 00:03:38,370 --> 00:03:44,880 But my main field of research for the last 15 years has been drug use, drug dealing, gangs and violence. 30 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:56,520 So at first sight, this might seem an odd background for studying political violence, but I do believe that it has something important to offer. 31 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,180 As terrorism studies. Criminology has something important to offer. 32 00:04:00,450 --> 00:04:09,300 Terrorism studies, especially when we study foreign fighters and terrorists, socialised into street culture and drug use and street crime. 33 00:04:12,630 --> 00:04:17,430 A criminology. A study has studied these groups of offenders for more than 100 years. 34 00:04:17,580 --> 00:04:23,390 So in that sense, we are not new to this field and it's one of the other way around. 35 00:04:23,470 --> 00:04:32,430 Terrorism scholars have started to be interested in the usual suspects of criminology in terrorism studies. 36 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:38,100 This is this phenomenon is known as the crime terror nexus. 37 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,560 It describes the linkages between organised criminal groups and terrorists, 38 00:04:44,430 --> 00:04:49,230 and from terror nexus refers to terrorists using crime as a source of funding 39 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,030 and a partnership of organised criminal organisations and terrorist groups. 40 00:04:55,410 --> 00:04:59,610 But I know in my book I point out a recent trend that. 41 00:05:00,180 --> 00:05:06,300 When they describe how criminal and jihadi worlds merge and have come to recruits from the same pool of people, 42 00:05:06,780 --> 00:05:14,760 creating often unintended synergies and overlaps that have consequences for how individuals radicalise and operate. 43 00:05:16,350 --> 00:05:23,160 In Norway, for example, the Police Security Service states that 68% of jihadi radicals have, 44 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:30,810 prior to radicalisation, been suspected charge or sentenced for criminal acts, mostly violence and drug use. 45 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:38,640 And there are similar numbers in Sweden and several other European countries, including the UK. 46 00:05:40,230 --> 00:05:47,970 So while this is nothing new, terrorist groups have always attracted young men fascinated by excitement and violence. 47 00:05:49,020 --> 00:05:56,040 It seems to be a particularly distinct terroristic of recent waves of terrorism in Western 48 00:05:56,280 --> 00:06:04,050 countries and also important characteristics of the foreign fighters going to Syria. 49 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,860 So there are many possible links between crime and terrorism. 50 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:17,220 Of course, it varies a lot with social, geographical and historical context. 51 00:06:17,370 --> 00:06:24,120 So I would try to be a little bit more specific and discuss the possible links between Western street culture and street crime, 52 00:06:24,780 --> 00:06:32,400 not crime in general, and violence, jihadi groups and symbolically, not terrorist groups in general. 53 00:06:34,290 --> 00:06:44,219 So what is this street jihadi nexus? What I describe as a street jihadi nexus is an attempt to narrow down the crime terrorism 54 00:06:44,220 --> 00:06:48,150 nexus or something more specific and understandable that can be studied empirically. 55 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:57,330 The street jihadi nexus is the relationship and symbolic merging of street culture and jihadi subculture, sometimes disguised as the new jihadi cool. 56 00:06:58,350 --> 00:07:07,500 In short, this includes people the tendency to recruit from the same class of people as Basra and his colleagues emphasise clothes and style, 57 00:07:07,770 --> 00:07:14,130 the mixing of military style, camouflage clothes, street style bling and traditional religious clothing. 58 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:21,270 Often it's all mixed at the same time. The street jihadi nexus can also be seen in slang, 59 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:28,960 the mixing in talk of standard sayings from the Koran with English versus open, inspired by gangster rap and gangster movies. 60 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:36,810 It all comes simultaneously when people talk and we can see this in chats and so on. 61 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:48,480 So, for example, when we are looking at the chats of the foreign fighters in Syria, one at home ask or why did you go to Syria? 62 00:07:48,660 --> 00:07:51,960 To his friend who left? And he answers, It's Jihad Joe. 63 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,910 That's just kind of mixing in between all the religious reasons. 64 00:07:57,930 --> 00:08:03,180 You can see the influence of this kind of street or traditional street culture. 65 00:08:04,830 --> 00:08:10,260 Finally, there is a lot of cross references in music, for example, the paradoxical emergence of jihadist rappers. 66 00:08:11,850 --> 00:08:28,350 So while music is forbidden among these Salafi jihadist, it still pops up the rappers who kind of play on the same ideology. 67 00:08:30,750 --> 00:08:35,430 There's also a new tendency where references to Islam have started to appear in gangsta rap. 68 00:08:36,570 --> 00:08:46,650 That shows how religion and criminal subcultures has got closer to Islam somehow has become something dangerous. 69 00:08:48,390 --> 00:08:53,760 This strong symbol, a very potent symbol of something they should be afraid of, 70 00:08:53,760 --> 00:09:05,280 and therefore so cool for these subcultures who celebrate danger and celebrate opposition and things that are different. 71 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,980 So it becomes attractive for excitements in the youth and those who want to provoke. 72 00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:19,700 One example of this is the Norwegian rapper Camel. 73 00:09:20,790 --> 00:09:25,080 Not very well known outside of Norway, not not even in Norway. 74 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:38,640 But all European countries have these rap scenes where people kind of look to the US and they try to imitate it as best as they can. 75 00:09:39,180 --> 00:09:51,479 And in Norway, at least, they are well aware that they are not real gangsta rappers, but still try to come as close as they can and come in. 76 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,750 Who is one of the artists that comes the closest to the American stereotype? 77 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,660 He served prison time for attacking people with bricks and. 78 00:09:59,990 --> 00:10:05,570 Once escaped from police station by jumping out of a window several floors above the ground. 79 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,400 And in a music video, I would play a little bit from afterwards. 80 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:16,459 The main point is seeing anything, which means to say nothing, don't say anything. 81 00:10:16,460 --> 00:10:22,340 And he brags about how, when he's interrogated by the police, the files are completely empty. 82 00:10:22,730 --> 00:10:25,790 He doesn't even say hi or anything. 83 00:10:27,230 --> 00:10:32,130 So this is this kind of a standard of race and rule of street culture. 84 00:10:32,180 --> 00:10:41,180 So so far, nothing unusual. But what's interesting in a clip that I would show is the pathway suddenly says to my mosque in France, Salaam alaikum. 85 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:45,570 This Arabic greetings, that means peace be unto you. 86 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,720 And it comes very much out of the blue in the video. Come in. 87 00:10:49,730 --> 00:10:56,530 It's not a muslim. He doesn't have a muslim background. He doesn't have any sympathies for jihadist groups or anything like that. 88 00:10:56,540 --> 00:11:04,520 But he still manages to fit in this greeting in the middle of the video. 89 00:11:05,090 --> 00:11:10,690 So now this synchronisation starts. It takes. 90 00:11:19,410 --> 00:11:21,160 Princess. 91 00:11:25,660 --> 00:11:36,580 So the beginning arose this small scooter, which is an ironic reference to a classic gangster video where this guy is riding a huge motorbike. 92 00:11:37,210 --> 00:11:40,630 So it's kind of ironic. It's the. 93 00:11:54,950 --> 00:12:05,680 So this is slow in the U.S. needs to sit out west because he's got the Democrats so tied up that. 94 00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:15,240 But when I see my son and my. Let's go to show me that this is not a Russian user. 95 00:12:15,890 --> 00:12:20,570 So it's all this classic gaming box. That's a death sentence. 96 00:12:20,780 --> 00:12:23,930 Massive, massive numbers in a bunch of stuff. 97 00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:33,650 And then a little bit out of the blue, this greeting to his Muslim friends. 98 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,300 There's flow in the music. He starts by saying he beats the [INAUDIBLE] out of the wealthy boys. 99 00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:45,469 It sounds better. And Norwegian. Your girlfriend's [INAUDIBLE] sucks. 100 00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:51,230 Meaning that he had sex with her, so he knows. So all the classical references from gangsta rap. 101 00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:56,120 And then your breath smells [INAUDIBLE]. And it finishes with saying what a mecum. 102 00:12:56,930 --> 00:13:03,440 Which is the thing you used to get a better smell. And it's also the word he needs to rhyme with. 103 00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:10,820 Salaam alaikum. So it's difficult to know where he picked up the phrase from, 104 00:13:11,660 --> 00:13:17,720 maybe from some of his friends or maybe from the Nation of Islam who have certain street cred in the US. 105 00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:26,240 But it reflects that Islam has become cool among ordinary, in ordinary street culture in the West, 106 00:13:26,420 --> 00:13:30,320 and it's the same in Germany and other countries as well. 107 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:38,870 You have this emerging rappers that play more, much more actively on Islam than they've done before. 108 00:13:39,830 --> 00:13:44,670 And if these guys are good at anything, it's like sensing the new trends. 109 00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:56,930 What's coming up? What's the next cool thing? So it's a good way to kind of see and see the development of youth culture, I think. 110 00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:06,140 So that's the one end of it. If we look at the other end of the continuum or what we call it, 111 00:14:08,390 --> 00:14:17,210 we can also see the merging of the street culture and religion in the style and background of well-known Norwegian jihadists. 112 00:14:17,780 --> 00:14:23,479 And this is the same thing for all over Europe. So as you can see from the picture, 113 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:35,380 they're all except this man here place on or use this or it's kind of related to a typical Western street culture bus gun muskets and 114 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:45,530 so back from from Latin America as was first the rapper for a couple of years and R.E.M. went to Syria and became a leader there. 115 00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:59,090 His man, Ahmed, also typical background from street culture before he went to Syria and they're taught at Hama. 116 00:14:59,130 --> 00:15:03,980 This guy was selling drugs in notorious drug dealer for many years and then he left. 117 00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:15,469 And Kimberly, the last one, I guess he both of these has been on this camouflage thing and the scarf some and all of that. 118 00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:23,570 And Kim leading in particular also shows how the converse has become an important part of the jihadi. 119 00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:30,680 See, 25% of the people leaving for Syria from nowhere were Norwegian converts. 120 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:40,670 So they kind of had this position in regular street culture using a little bit of drugs, maybe involving a little bit of violence. 121 00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:45,080 And then suddenly they turn to Islam and and go to Syria. 122 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:53,840 So, yeah, so there are two ways that Islam a street culture is combined. 123 00:15:53,890 --> 00:16:02,090 On the one hand, in regular street culture, signs and symbols of Islam is used to appear cool and dangerous, as Kamal did in the video. 124 00:16:02,570 --> 00:16:09,110 And on the other hand, jihadi groups use cultural expressions from street culture to attract youths. 125 00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:24,290 You can see that there is videos, for example, of where they set up this very technically advanced and very detailed exhibition. 126 00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:35,090 So violence that's kind of play into a popular culture where violence is celebrated and you can also see it in clothing and and so on. 127 00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:40,760 So somehow these two cultures merges. 128 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:52,940 So what is this street culture then? The main idea in the literature is that marginalised groups will seek out alternative arenas where 129 00:16:52,940 --> 00:16:59,360 they can succeed and traditionally criminal and subculture groups have provided such arenas. 130 00:17:00,140 --> 00:17:06,290 To put it simply, if you can't manage school or get a regular job, maybe you have what it takes to sell drugs on the street. 131 00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:09,200 And that can give you a lot of form, a sense of respect. 132 00:17:09,380 --> 00:17:17,630 Then one value add in mainstream society, and these are just some of the main works within this tradition. 133 00:17:18,650 --> 00:17:25,570 William Smith What was the classic here from Boston in the late 1930s? 134 00:17:27,230 --> 00:17:32,600 Paul Willis Of course, which is more, much more in school, in a school setting, 135 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:39,110 but it still is this oppositional culture opposition to Main Street and middle class culture. 136 00:17:40,340 --> 00:17:51,020 Anderson who has made it become the modern classic that everybody refers to with this concept of the cult of the street? 137 00:17:51,860 --> 00:18:02,710 And Beauvoir was another big name and a tradition, and that's really in a suite here because they been working on it, too. 138 00:18:05,060 --> 00:18:12,950 And of course, the last one, as Goffman, as you probably most of you know, has become really controversial, 139 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:20,990 fantastic book, but also very controversial because of her involvement with the people she studies. 140 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:31,880 So this is a highly empirical tradition, which is maybe why some of these books really get a broader distribution. 141 00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:39,590 Some of them can be read more or less so exciting novels, especially The Venkatesh. 142 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:51,050 For those of you, the government became like a bestseller. While it's still based on this traditional classic streets, a number of things tradition. 143 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:58,790 So my contribution to this field has been a book we call The Street Capital that 144 00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:04,040 I did with Will Patterson a couple years ago or actually many years ago now, 145 00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:17,840 where we try to move from this empirical physics and also make it a turning into a more coherent theoretical framework for doing studies, 146 00:19:18,050 --> 00:19:21,500 these kinds of studies. So in this book, 147 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:26,860 we try to explain the reasons for why a group of street drug dealers ended up 148 00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:31,010 in criminal environments and the fascination and attractions of these things. 149 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:40,220 And again, it was based on a long and graphic fieldwork with these subcultures. 150 00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:47,780 So the concept of street capital, it's the kind of the cultural capital of the street, 151 00:19:48,170 --> 00:19:52,340 the knowledge, skills and objects that are given value in street culture. 152 00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:58,430 For example, the experiences would use the sale of drugs, violence, crime and so on. 153 00:19:59,690 --> 00:20:04,980 And the idea of using the concept of capital is to see that you can accumulate it. 154 00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:08,750 You can have more of it and you can have less of it. 155 00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:17,060 And it takes time. So in a same way as with money, for most of us, you can't just get it all in. 156 00:20:17,390 --> 00:20:22,550 In one day. You have to work slowly and hard to get more and more in, and you can also lose it. 157 00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:26,990 And it's also to capture this idea that there's some kind of investment. 158 00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:36,190 You invest in your property just socialised into where you are, but you also invest in it like taking an education. 159 00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:40,309 So as we do with the concept of cultural capital, 160 00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:46,050 and it's the same way with the competencies you need to survive on the streets, you have to invest in it. 161 00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:51,530 It takes time and you have to be careful to kind of protect it. 162 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,930 It's a related concept. 163 00:20:56,930 --> 00:21:05,660 This street habitus, habitus and capital and body is closely related, and habitus is the embodied dispositions of people committed to the streets. 164 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:15,470 For example, embodied practices, practical sense that is seen in hypersensitivity to offences and frequent displays of violent potential. 165 00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:24,319 For example, if you bump into someone, I guess the English are very good at excusing themselves. 166 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,020 So then it's kind of immediate response on impulse. You don't think about it. 167 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,300 Now it would be nice to be polite and say, I'm sorry. 168 00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:36,889 I think the Scandinavians, they don't have that kind of politeness, 169 00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:43,280 so they just try to hide and afterwards and in street culture, if you bump into someone, 170 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:52,340 the immediate response is, of course, to seek eye contact to see if this is like a potential conflict or if it's an offence, 171 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,010 if it was meant as some kind of a disrespect. 172 00:21:55,010 --> 00:22:06,500 And if it is, it's of course, to bump back and take whatever steps necessary to provide your sense of of self. 173 00:22:07,820 --> 00:22:11,790 And again, it's. Much embodied. You can't learn it. 174 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:17,600 You can't tell me to go out there and act like that because it happens like this, right? 175 00:22:17,610 --> 00:22:26,620 So you need to really have it socialised and for many years to be able to pull it off and to look like you really fit into the environment. 176 00:22:28,810 --> 00:22:35,410 So it takes time and it's it becomes you in a way that's difficult to change. 177 00:22:37,450 --> 00:22:45,490 So because of the street capitalistic habitus is an attempt to kind of this practical rationality that for you 178 00:22:45,940 --> 00:22:53,940 describes that combined structure and agency where you see how people act within the context that they are embedded. 179 00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:58,090 So they're somehow rational or you can understand it. 180 00:22:58,090 --> 00:23:04,810 It makes sense what they do, but it's within a given structure and it's not cognitively, 181 00:23:05,290 --> 00:23:12,160 it's not rational choice in a way that people kind of weigh the advantages and disadvantages and so on. 182 00:23:13,450 --> 00:23:22,570 And it's also, I think, a good way to combine cultural and economical explanations of street subcultures, 183 00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:35,799 because on the one hand, it's a culture that has its own driving force that's kind of motivating people. 184 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:41,170 It takes particular directions, it shapes people, actions and so on. 185 00:23:41,170 --> 00:23:48,550 But at the same time, it's also very much based on economy and socioeconomic marginalisation. 186 00:23:49,180 --> 00:24:00,760 It's this attempt to find another space to get some kind of respect and dignity for a group of very marginalised people. 187 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,270 After this book, the the framework has been expanded. 188 00:24:08,350 --> 00:24:13,840 We've written about the street feel. Capital is always situated in a particular field. 189 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:24,280 So if you talk about the capital, it's almost related to a field and that's pretty hard when it comes to a concept such as 190 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:30,130 street capital because it's not a particular institution and it's a particular place, 191 00:24:30,430 --> 00:24:36,680 the street, it's like a metaphor for crime and a particular kind of crime, not any kind of crime to. 192 00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:49,000 But still we try to describe the street, feel that it's somehow similar in very different countries and very different contexts. 193 00:24:50,860 --> 00:25:01,719 Jonathan Legion has continued to work on street social capital to show how, in the same way as networking and so on is important for cultural capital. 194 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,940 Who knows who? Street social capital is important for people on the street, 195 00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:20,720 and Jennifer Frequent has taken it even further and tried to combine it with the more constructivist perspectives. 196 00:25:20,770 --> 00:25:30,549 And she describes narrative habitus as this kind of things you need to say in a way you need to talk, and so on, on the street. 197 00:25:30,550 --> 00:25:38,440 Then together we also describe the narrative repertoire of the streets feels like quite recent paper, 198 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:46,299 which is it's a difficult exercise because it tries to combine some theoretical 199 00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:54,459 perspectives that are not necessarily in line in narrative criminology, 200 00:25:54,460 --> 00:26:00,830 which which is my other main interest, which basically says that stories are really important. 201 00:26:00,830 --> 00:26:07,569 The stories people tell defines what they do and influences them and are important. 202 00:26:07,570 --> 00:26:15,520 People act on good stories and various framework which somehow downplays the role of language, 203 00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:21,160 saying that the most important things are the doxa things that are never said. 204 00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:33,970 Yeah. And last week I was in Copenhagen and there was a new PSG that I was I was on the committee of How come Coca, 205 00:26:34,510 --> 00:26:45,080 who has been doing a nine year fieldwork with immigrant gangs in Copenhagen and there was a thousand page speeches. 206 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,620 So I think the the tradition continues and becomes more more and more extreme. 207 00:26:52,270 --> 00:26:53,710 But it's very it's a very good one. 208 00:26:53,800 --> 00:27:04,080 I wish it was written in English so that if you read it, it's hopefully they would come some maybe smaller text from it to that. 209 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:15,520 Okay. So this framework of. But using criminology was the background for this recent work that I did with John Jones agent, 210 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:25,350 where we tried to understand this process where former gangsters, gangsters or people committed to some kind of street culture become jihadists. 211 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:26,520 So we thought, okay, 212 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:38,170 maybe we can use this concept so this framework to try to understand this apparent paradox where people move from very different cells. 213 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:49,020 But before coming to this, let's see. Take a look at how Islam used to be perceived in street culture. 214 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:57,989 I did the fieldwork in 2005 2006 when we wrote this book with ethnic minority drug dealers in Oslo. 215 00:27:57,990 --> 00:28:05,130 And many of these had Muslim backgrounds. The young men were not very religious, but they did not eat pork. 216 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:11,970 Some wrote references to Islam on them, but still it was not very important for them. 217 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:19,440 So ten years ago, religious commitment was a clear sign of decreasing criminal activity. 218 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,530 Islam was their main reason for wanting to get out of the street, dealing crime and to settle down. 219 00:28:26,550 --> 00:28:32,370 Religion was not an integrated part of youth culture. Rather, religion kept youths out of crime. 220 00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:36,670 And basically criminals want to break with their lifestyle, settle down and get a family and get away. 221 00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:49,530 And this can be illustrated by this quote from one of my main participants, Muhammad, who says, You got this sense of anxiety never leaves you. 222 00:28:49,650 --> 00:28:55,830 Usually I just think about all the stuff I've done that I have to pay for one day, either in this life or the next. 223 00:28:56,220 --> 00:28:59,350 I'm going to be judged. And it's my sense. I mean, this is. 224 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:19,180 And in a similar story from Frankfurt to another fantastic street ethnography, I think five years of of fieldwork with Turkish drug dealers. 225 00:29:21,370 --> 00:29:26,010 It has not received much attention yet, but I think it's definitely should. 226 00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:33,639 But the point here is that there she was also studying this group of dealers with Muslim backgrounds, 227 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,120 and she said that they didn't want to sell to women. 228 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,040 They preferred selling cannabis to selling harder drugs because they were Muslims. 229 00:29:41,050 --> 00:29:46,540 That was the explanation or the justification or whatever it was. 230 00:29:47,140 --> 00:29:52,480 And also that the treated money from drug business as hard and for us as impure. 231 00:29:53,440 --> 00:30:00,550 And they argued that it could not be used in the of durable goods or saved for a future. 232 00:30:01,210 --> 00:30:07,480 So we had this kind of discussion how how much is this really the influence of 233 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,910 Islam and how much is this just the case that no drug dealer ever talks to, 234 00:30:13,210 --> 00:30:19,000 spent money on their mother or durable goods or save them for the future? 235 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:25,240 So maybe it's just an excuse for a very establish a new excuse for the established practice. 236 00:30:26,650 --> 00:30:32,830 But the main impression, anyway, from both studies was a clear distinction between street culture and Islam. 237 00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:38,110 Islam, it was something different. There was no other way out and getting straight, 238 00:30:38,110 --> 00:30:45,190 no martyrdom that cleaned out sins or no religious groups to join where they could get credit for the street skills. 239 00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:51,540 They then you had to make a clear break with criminal lifestyle to be considered risk Muslims. 240 00:30:52,660 --> 00:30:58,120 She had a field work at the same time as ask me like ten year, 12 years ago. 241 00:30:59,110 --> 00:31:06,400 Now this has changed. Violent jihadists now openly recruit people for street culture and play on street culture symbols to attract new members. 242 00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:13,600 And maybe this can be understood better by using various concepts. 243 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:22,840 So only very briefly, this guy, you probably know Jihadi John was small for his age and bullied. 244 00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:29,170 He had a long career of drug taking before they go into Syria, street crime and rough music. 245 00:31:29,170 --> 00:31:38,830 He viewed themselves as part of the Faith Persecuted, and he was first drawn to a street culture and then drawn towards violent jihadism 246 00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:45,110 and this kind of alternative search for respect provided by street capitalism. 247 00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:54,250 Another guy very often, guys, is the Norwegian gang criminal up on. 248 00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:58,540 But there is this before and after picture. 249 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:09,489 It was part of founding first, one of the big, most well-known and feared the gang criminals in Oslo, 250 00:32:09,490 --> 00:32:14,710 and then later part of forming an extremist jihadist organisation in Norway. 251 00:32:15,370 --> 00:32:25,900 And he was particularly good at recruiting new people and somehow became the leader or one of the most important guys in that organisation. 252 00:32:27,010 --> 00:32:32,980 So but they transform street capital into resource in networks supportive of violent jihadism. 253 00:32:33,010 --> 00:32:37,690 He was a tough guy about us in the first place and this was appreciated in jihadist circles. 254 00:32:38,260 --> 00:32:43,630 People knew about his violent potential and his street capital made people respect him. 255 00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:52,840 This also made him attractive for the jihadist because he had kind of the skills and 256 00:32:53,020 --> 00:33:03,790 the habitus that they needed in their efforts for four terms to fight a holy war. 257 00:33:04,390 --> 00:33:09,549 And while this was possible a couple of years ago, I think 15 years ago, 258 00:33:09,550 --> 00:33:17,020 it would have been unthinkable to have a former well-known gang criminal without changing lifestyle, 259 00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:23,370 that much becoming the main face of a religious organisation or groups. 260 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:29,200 So there was definitely something going on at that point, at that point in time. 261 00:33:31,510 --> 00:33:36,909 Another guy, Biggie, was a gang leader and in points here is not this particular people. 262 00:33:36,910 --> 00:33:45,660 I mean, there are just examples of a more general trend that also happens to people that are less well known in the public. 263 00:33:46,510 --> 00:33:49,660 Gang leader in Copenhagen involved in drug dealing and trafficking. 264 00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:54,370 He travelled to Syria to fight with the rebels to make up for his wrongs. 265 00:33:54,610 --> 00:34:00,729 He really wanted to change his lifestyle. I think he tried and. 266 00:34:00,730 --> 00:34:04,260 But the jihad. Fighting there sent him back. They didn't want him. 267 00:34:04,980 --> 00:34:09,540 The writer wanted him to collect the money in the Copenhagen underworld. 268 00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:15,090 So he transformed his capital into funding for jihadist groups instead. 269 00:34:15,660 --> 00:34:21,989 And rumour says that he collected money from drug dealers to get to fund this. 270 00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:25,470 Jihadists groups. People that owed him money. 271 00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:31,440 He approached them, told him to pay back, and he sent the money to Syria instead. 272 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,190 Now he's marginalised in a Copenhagen underworld after having gotten some severe beatings by a rival gang. 273 00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:44,100 So he somehow seems to be stuck in crime. Although he at some point tried to change. 274 00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:53,799 So street capital a term explained both attraction to street culture, I think, and to jihadism. 275 00:34:53,800 --> 00:35:08,440 There are some important similarities here. Street capital and the jihadi subculture, the jihadi cool has sometimes statements, for example, 276 00:35:08,590 --> 00:35:18,520 described us that it does the jihadi could is based on marginalisation and it's all sorts of modernisation, social, economic, symbolic. 277 00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:25,180 And what's important is that it is perceived marginalisation is the feeling of being an outsider. 278 00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:37,299 A lot of people are if you look at the numbers or of objective characteristics, a lot of people are marginalised in many different ways. 279 00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:41,890 But what's particularly for this group of people is that they kind of feel they feel it and 280 00:35:43,180 --> 00:35:51,520 they interpret it as oppression from mainstream society or parts of mainstream society. 281 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,669 So it's also this kind of opposition going against society, 282 00:35:57,670 --> 00:36:07,750 protesting against the marginalisation that they have experience somehow getting back at the society that they feel oppressed them. 283 00:36:10,510 --> 00:36:13,990 Another similarities this attraction to alternative styles. 284 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:20,230 This is a picture of another guy who went to Syria who kind of tried all these different styles, 285 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,250 one after the other before he ended up in and jihadism. 286 00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:40,960 And now it seems that the jihadi symbolic and semiotics and and all of that is has become another possible choice and a subculture. 287 00:36:42,370 --> 00:36:49,660 The list of subcultures, anyone, any youth can actually relate to. 288 00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:59,200 And there are ways of relating. I mean, you can become all engaged and and travel to Syria and so on, but you can also just play with it. 289 00:37:00,030 --> 00:37:09,370 And we see that a lot. For example, young people putting up small, provocative things on their Facebook page just to see what happens, 290 00:37:09,370 --> 00:37:16,419 takes some kind of sharing a video from ISIS or showing the flag or something like that. 291 00:37:16,420 --> 00:37:18,970 Maybe they're only mean that much. 292 00:37:21,220 --> 00:37:30,370 They don't put that much meaning into it, but it's just some kind of trying to play with some very provocative signs and symbols. 293 00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:41,110 And maybe it's actually the most potent oppositional symbol right now, jihadism. 294 00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:51,010 And finally, the attraction to violence, excitement, protest, masculinity is also to say in street culture and jihadism. 295 00:37:51,010 --> 00:38:03,129 And this guy to the left here is another firefighter who first was doing boxing and Anna May and always had this thing about fighting and violence. 296 00:38:03,130 --> 00:38:09,750 And in the end, he went to Syria to fight. 297 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:18,040 Probably partly driven by religious reasons, partly driven by social consciousness, political worries, 298 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:29,620 but also, I think, very clearly motivated by his kind of attraction towards violence and fighting and so on. 299 00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:39,100 So street capital is embodied. This habitus that's difficult to change. 300 00:38:41,410 --> 00:38:46,810 And in many new jihadis continued their street lifestyle after joining jihadist groups. 301 00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:52,810 Maybe they don't want to change. Maybe they can't manage to change. 302 00:38:53,650 --> 00:38:57,790 And one example here from another picture is Somalia. 303 00:38:57,790 --> 00:39:10,899 Khan was posing in a gangster style away from from Syria and usually in pictures of foreign fighters or a terrorist, jihadi terrorist. 304 00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:20,680 They are very serious when they pose with a weapons either like this or on the back or in their heart is kind of shows this this is a serious course. 305 00:39:22,810 --> 00:39:26,590 We're not playing here. This is we have a violent potential. You should serious. 306 00:39:26,590 --> 00:39:35,920 But this is serious and we are. But this kind of style of posing weapons is very common in American gangs, for example. 307 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:45,580 So this is just a clear copying of practices from American street gangster way of posing. 308 00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:52,600 So they bring on their practices and it's hard to change because this is what they are used to. 309 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,920 So they can't just change overnight even if they want to. 310 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:05,440 And this can also be seen in the way many return to regular crime after having been jihadist for a while. 311 00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:14,049 So it's not like they are involved in regular crime and then become jihadist and they turn to some other kind of crime. 312 00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:20,560 But it's more like they become jihadist and then sometimes they go back to regular crime and they become jihadist again. 313 00:40:20,770 --> 00:40:24,760 It's much more mixed, these practices. 314 00:40:27,650 --> 00:40:33,719 So it's really difficult to turn away from this with practices when becoming engaged in extreme words and habits. 315 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:48,470 Is this is a nice way, I think, to conceptualise this lack of change or cultural continuity that creates the new hybrid culture. 316 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:56,510 So if we go to the literature, what really just extremists offer criminals, 317 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:05,450 they can offer them exciting experiences of group unity, love, power, violence and adventure. 318 00:41:06,350 --> 00:41:17,510 Could see. And it says. They can offer them adrenaline, a strong identity and a sense of rebellion and being after establishment. 319 00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:29,920 And it can also be this pride of being the worst of the worst being what Jackass describes as the badass. 320 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:42,060 And as I mentioned earlier, the jihadist or ISIS symbols are probably the most potent symbols of evil right now. 321 00:41:42,070 --> 00:41:52,210 So if you want to if you're attracted to being the most evil person in the world, this is the kind of culture you would probably seek out. 322 00:41:53,740 --> 00:41:59,850 At the same time, we have to remember that it's also offers this redemption from past sense. 323 00:42:00,610 --> 00:42:06,370 So Lydia grew up in Manchester. It gives people a religious purpose in life. 324 00:42:07,150 --> 00:42:15,190 And maybe if you have had a criminal lifestyle for a while and you have done a lot of wrong and maybe you feel bad about it, 325 00:42:15,550 --> 00:42:25,750 you want to change life dramatically. You want to do something very grandiose to change, to show the world that you were changed. 326 00:42:26,350 --> 00:42:39,280 So that can also be part of the picture. And finally, it's an opportunity to reinvest street capitalists and in jihadi organisations. 327 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,590 Street criminals don't have to start from scratch. 328 00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:53,470 If they want to become a jihadist so they can reinvest their accumulated street capital in a more and moral handover. 329 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,360 And in this way, their street habitus becomes a resource and not a problem. 330 00:42:59,110 --> 00:43:10,360 So for these people who have been socialised into street culture for years and street environments, if they want to change and go somewhere else, 331 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:17,230 if they want to go to mainstream society, their habitus, their knowledge, their way of talking, everything is against them. 332 00:43:17,870 --> 00:43:23,380 And it would be really hard to get any kind of position if they want to change lifestyle. 333 00:43:23,470 --> 00:43:28,450 But and ten, 50 years ago, that was the only option they'd seen. 334 00:43:28,450 --> 00:43:37,989 But now there is this other options where you can kind of go to an extreme religious movement and hang on to your street habitus, 335 00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:48,010 hang on to your competencies and be acknowledged for it and go from having high status in one system to having high status in another. 336 00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:59,860 So in that sense, and that's the practical rationality that the body describes, it's not like they put up the question and makes a decision to go, 337 00:43:59,860 --> 00:44:04,389 but it's just this kind of it expands some of the draw of these movements that don't 338 00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:13,090 have to give up all their competencies and capital and knowledge when they move it. 339 00:44:13,210 --> 00:44:24,640 There's some kind of cultural homology from one culture to the other that's probably appreciated and makes the most users easier. 340 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:32,650 But the limitations, or whatever we call it, numbers are uncertain. 341 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,160 So when I say that this has become more important, 342 00:44:36,310 --> 00:44:45,160 it's that we don't really know that for sure because we didn't count them in the sixties and seventies. 343 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:54,520 So it's not like anyone have numbers of people being convicted of crime prior to political or religious radicalisation from the sixties and seventies. 344 00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:00,310 And also now it's a little bit difficult to how you measure it, what kind of crimes and so on. 345 00:45:00,340 --> 00:45:12,130 So and numbers are not certain, but most people and most researchers in this field still agree that there seems to be a tendency in that direction. 346 00:45:12,970 --> 00:45:29,040 And also whether it's 30%, 60% or 80% or whatever, it's an interesting phenomena for that group of people that it matters for relates to. 347 00:45:29,650 --> 00:45:39,820 So I think even if it's even if it's just one fourth of of new jihadists, it's important to try to see what happens with this group. 348 00:45:40,570 --> 00:45:44,350 And it's also not a new phenomena. 349 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:51,820 There's always been criminals engaged in terrorist organisations and similar types of people have been drawn towards these groups. 350 00:45:51,820 --> 00:45:54,250 We've seen this in Iraq, in the IRA and so on. 351 00:45:55,090 --> 00:46:06,970 And finally, street criminals are not jihadi entrepreneurs, which is maybe the most important criticism of this idea of a street crime terror nexus. 352 00:46:07,180 --> 00:46:11,200 And according to Peter Nasser, one of the. Big scholars in this field. 353 00:46:11,230 --> 00:46:14,410 Marginalised people are not the ones initiating terrorism. 354 00:46:15,130 --> 00:46:21,400 Rather, they are played by and manipulated by what he describes as ideologists and entrepreneurs. 355 00:46:22,180 --> 00:46:28,630 So in that sense, they are not the most important actors when explaining or trying to prevent terrorism. 356 00:46:29,290 --> 00:46:34,500 He shows how he has plotted all the terrorist attacks in Europe from the ninth 357 00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:39,490 jihadi terrorist attacks in years in Europe from the seventies and until now, 358 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,110 not only the attacks, but also the plots that were discovered by the police. 359 00:46:44,770 --> 00:46:56,650 And he argues that it all comes down to this network in London and Paris with maybe around 150 hardcore jihadists. 360 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,280 And their ideology is really important. 361 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:15,760 Of course, still, I would say that if it's the misfits, as he described them, he describes all the different roles in the jihadi terrorist network. 362 00:47:16,540 --> 00:47:23,820 If it is the misfits that actually commit the terrorist attacks, I would still argue that they are very important parts of it. 363 00:47:23,830 --> 00:47:31,960 And also, if they explain the rise in recruitment, if they are the new recruits, 364 00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:42,190 it can be that these basic networks are kind of expanding the system the way this is systematic and going on and over time and so on. 365 00:47:42,190 --> 00:47:49,660 But if the new thing is the rise of street criminals coming in, we should try to understand it better. 366 00:47:51,580 --> 00:47:55,030 So the street jihadi nexus has some kind of interest there. 367 00:47:55,450 --> 00:47:58,630 The last decade has seen a rise in jihadi violence in the West. 368 00:47:59,230 --> 00:48:07,330 Most of it is perpetrated by young Muslim men from the West, and they have often developed the violent skills in Western street culture and prisons. 369 00:48:08,890 --> 00:48:14,830 So in short, drug users, petty and more hardcore criminals have become the main recruitment base for jihadi groups. 370 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:24,070 And this makes it crucial to understand how jihadi groups and jihadi rhetoric are dealt with and perceived in these environments. 371 00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:32,979 So this is the starting point from when you don't have that much. 372 00:48:32,980 --> 00:48:36,700 You got 10 minutes to know when it's okay. He should've never told me to expand. 373 00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:42,100 That was a big mistake. I'll go fast. 374 00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:46,460 The new field work. Same scene. So the idea. 375 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,340 Okay, if this is where people are recruits. 376 00:48:49,420 --> 00:48:59,140 We know a lot about jihadis, but we don't know much about these scenes where they're recruits and how ordinary street criminals relate to jihadists. 377 00:49:00,100 --> 00:49:08,499 So in a new project, Sebastian two times went back to the scene where I did my research ten years ago, 378 00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:11,980 and we wanted to see how street culture had changed the last ten years. 379 00:49:13,660 --> 00:49:20,620 So the first striking observation was that the religion had become much more important. 380 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:32,370 Everything else was the same. They took the drugs in the same way they were fighting, in the same way they were saying the same kind of things. 381 00:49:32,370 --> 00:49:35,429 They even had the same, like, pop culture references. 382 00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:41,879 But and this violence with culture was still dominant, but the religions became had become much more important. 383 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:50,100 They were constantly discussing religions while religion was dealing drugs and describing each other in religious terms. 384 00:49:52,240 --> 00:50:01,560 So with a background of knowing that this is where they recruited, we wondered how they must have straight criminals view violent jihadists. 385 00:50:04,180 --> 00:50:13,360 And given what I've talked about so far, the expectation was that they have some kind of fascinations border violence spectacles, 386 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:19,989 that there is some kind of recognition of the opposition or maybe not that they really identify with it 100%, 387 00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:24,680 but have some kind of some kind of fascination for it. 388 00:50:24,700 --> 00:50:32,829 But what we found was a very strong and clear resistance, which can be seen in this quote, 389 00:50:32,830 --> 00:50:38,020 which it's written in big letters, because he's kind of shouting it to Sebastian. 390 00:50:39,550 --> 00:50:44,980 He approached a drug dealer explaining the research project, and the response was very emotional. 391 00:50:45,850 --> 00:50:53,350 It refers to that guy with a bomb. There was a guy who had made a bomb and it just a couple of hundred metres away. 392 00:50:55,400 --> 00:51:02,620 And he says he wants to kill them. And he points to this as those sort of people recruiting and so on. 393 00:51:02,890 --> 00:51:06,280 If I was allowed to punch this in the air and so on. 394 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:19,210 So the first answer to that is first, how do they relate to this jihadist group is that they are strongly opposed to it. 395 00:51:20,530 --> 00:51:24,280 And it's not an abstract problem for these young men and it's environments. 396 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:30,160 They know people who have travelled. They know recruiters who have approached them and so on. 397 00:51:32,350 --> 00:51:40,270 And because they are so close to the problem and we think that there is some really effective de-radicalization work going on at these sites, 398 00:51:41,620 --> 00:51:48,310 and it's important to study and work with people from every culture and work within the street cultural logic to understand it, 399 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,900 to constrain extremism and the problem of jihadis targeting these people. 400 00:51:54,970 --> 00:52:00,590 So there are, of course, differences as well between sweet culture and jihadi cultures. 401 00:52:00,610 --> 00:52:09,310 It's obvious that it is culture against the very hard nosed stick one one who uses a lot of jokes and anyone who says you shouldn't use drugs, 402 00:52:09,550 --> 00:52:14,770 sexual access versus sexual limitations. 403 00:52:16,930 --> 00:52:27,580 But there are also reasons to resist jihadism, and that's embedded in in the street culture logic. 404 00:52:29,850 --> 00:52:35,770 So one thing you can say is that extremist does not have street capital. 405 00:52:35,810 --> 00:52:44,570 That was one of the reason they gave for being opposed to it. The jihadists are not following the code on the streets. 406 00:52:45,390 --> 00:52:49,320 So if we start from this assumption that everybody has some kind of morality. 407 00:52:49,860 --> 00:52:56,100 Even criminals, street drug dealers, the first statement there is that why should they kill innocent? 408 00:52:56,130 --> 00:53:05,160 So it is kind of very mainstream idea that killing innocent people is not it's not allowed or more morally defensible. 409 00:53:06,060 --> 00:53:15,450 But the other one citation shows some more cultural logic embedded in the street street culture. 410 00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:23,040 Don't use a noise if you're going to fight unless Delta One has one. It doesn't give any threat to attack innocent people. 411 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,660 Doesn't give on purpose to to attack all the. 412 00:53:28,290 --> 00:53:32,340 You should try to find someone your own size, or preferably even bigger. 413 00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:35,580 And then if you fight them, you get more to capital. 414 00:53:36,210 --> 00:53:42,900 You can even be beating them up and get street capital if you just show that you're not a car was running away and so on. 415 00:53:43,650 --> 00:53:56,760 So the terrible idea is terrorism or blowing up the bombs, killing innocent people doesn't really resonate with street culture, 416 00:53:57,060 --> 00:54:01,560 doesn't resonate with ideas of masculinity in street culture. 417 00:54:02,580 --> 00:54:10,650 So that's one reason why they rejected it. Also, the resistance is highly emotional. 418 00:54:13,230 --> 00:54:20,640 There are psychopathic, not normal. Humans is as they get good red eyes when they speak their souls that they have drunk lots of blood. 419 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:31,370 So somehow the most emotional responses we got were from this. 420 00:54:31,380 --> 00:54:38,280 They were much more emotional about it than regular Muslims, and that probably reflects that. 421 00:54:38,580 --> 00:54:42,210 They feel more they feel the stigma more. 422 00:54:43,350 --> 00:54:48,629 It's kind of they've always been stigmatised for being drug dealers, being ethnic minorities and so on. 423 00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:53,010 But now they're also possibly terrorists. 424 00:54:53,550 --> 00:55:00,330 So it becomes really important to draw the boundaries, to say to everyone that, oh, well, I'm not one of them. 425 00:55:01,260 --> 00:55:05,409 And we know that well, from the symbolic boundary literature, that's the strongest. 426 00:55:05,410 --> 00:55:12,420 The boundaries are always drawn against the ones that are closest to you, which is the one you need to. 427 00:55:13,140 --> 00:55:18,750 We see that the negative is the one that is the one you need to show that they are not. 428 00:55:19,250 --> 00:55:23,640 Yeah, but the emotional response has got two sides to it. 429 00:55:24,270 --> 00:55:30,450 Negative one, of course it can justify beating them up can be used as a justification for whatever violence, 430 00:55:30,990 --> 00:55:33,600 if you accuse them of being supportive of ISIS and so on. 431 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:43,860 We have seen that in gunfights in and in Norway, where the one group accused the other one of being like sympathising with ISIS. 432 00:55:43,860 --> 00:55:48,810 And that probably explains why the violence got even greater than it would have been otherwise. 433 00:55:49,650 --> 00:55:52,200 And it's kind of the humanisation. It's always dangerous. 434 00:55:53,700 --> 00:56:00,180 It's easier to kill people or to harm people that becomes representatives of evil and were not considered to be human. 435 00:56:01,350 --> 00:56:11,640 But it has also got a positive side to it, to emotional resistance, and that is that it can justify snitching and violence. 436 00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:17,160 It can make participants in the street culture break with the most important rule You shall not snitch. 437 00:56:18,570 --> 00:56:23,670 And during my previous fieldwork and many years of interviewing all kinds of drug dealers. 438 00:56:23,820 --> 00:56:26,880 I can hardly remember anyone admitting to snitching. 439 00:56:27,210 --> 00:56:31,470 They could admit to. To selling drugs, of course. 440 00:56:32,130 --> 00:56:39,720 Show me the roots where they have smuggled and violence, beating up people, getting beaten, but never snitching. 441 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:47,340 It is still in this new data. We have examples of people saying that they were the snitch, this guy here. 442 00:56:48,420 --> 00:56:52,649 So since many extremists now come from these environments, a good relationship to them is, 443 00:56:52,650 --> 00:56:59,160 of course, beneficial when it comes to getting information about potential radicalised individuals. 444 00:57:03,060 --> 00:57:12,780 So other reasons for not being attracted to jihadist organisations are more mainstream. 445 00:57:13,350 --> 00:57:19,440 Once extremist message to further Islam, extremists bring disrepute to Islam and Muslims. 446 00:57:20,130 --> 00:57:28,050 They inflict suffering. They are mad certain, but this is very much the same as the reasons we've found among ordinary Muslims. 447 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:33,620 So. This can be some kind of reminder that these differences are not always important, 448 00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:39,920 and even highly violent subcultures share many of the same values as more mainstream society. 449 00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:51,860 So this is where I wanted to squeeze in the last study, but I want but we did this interviews and we had a media campaign. 450 00:57:51,990 --> 00:58:01,050 If some of you want to see them, it's under the Muslim voices without speaking the words and so on. 451 00:58:01,070 --> 00:58:05,330 So I just want to just skip that. 452 00:58:06,020 --> 00:58:12,139 But what's important for street culture and the argument in this talk is that the 453 00:58:12,140 --> 00:58:17,390 main perceptions of jihadists among ordinary Muslims is that they are criminals, 454 00:58:17,390 --> 00:58:21,800 they're drug users, they're uneducated, and they have psychological problems. 455 00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:29,050 Brainwashed once said he's a psychopath. 456 00:58:29,900 --> 00:58:35,090 One young Muslim said about his former friend who went to Syria. 457 00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,400 They're crazy. Many of our travels are criminals. 458 00:58:38,420 --> 00:58:42,290 They've only been Muslim for two, three months. I think they are not for. 459 00:58:42,290 --> 00:58:45,439 But they don't know much about the parents. 460 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,420 Maybe lost their parents, never been to school. 461 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:58,760 So when ISIS got too closely connected to or associated with a violent Western subculture, it limited mainstream left support. 462 00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:05,150 They got associated to this because the large number of former criminals and drug users that travelled to Syria, 463 00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:12,260 they also actively tried to put this group by playing on street cultural symbolic. 464 00:59:13,460 --> 00:59:18,930 But in terms of recruitment, the symbolic associations of the street is this is an ambiguous resource. 465 00:59:19,370 --> 00:59:26,720 It attracts some but repels more. Few want to be associated with the likes of Jihadi John and other notorious criminals. 466 00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:35,210 And more generally, although there is some fascination in popular culture, this is a highly marginalised and stigmatised subculture. 467 00:59:37,010 --> 00:59:46,610 So to conclude, the street jihadi culture changes Western street culture. 468 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:53,150 It makes Islam as something dangerous and cool. It attracts new recruits to jihadism. 469 00:59:53,750 --> 01:00:00,560 These are young excitement seekers concerned with style and searching for action, and they often have a long career in regular crime. 470 01:00:01,070 --> 01:00:06,380 And the new street jihadi culture offers a more a way out for hardened criminals. 471 01:00:07,100 --> 01:00:12,680 It's a space where they can get status for their human backgrounds as opposed to almost anywhere else in society. 472 01:00:14,540 --> 01:00:18,470 And finally, it shapes and transforms the way that jihadi group works. 473 01:00:18,650 --> 01:00:27,220 For example, ISIS, many provocations, extreme videos and stories that must be understood within this subculture in reverse. 474 01:00:28,100 --> 01:00:33,639 Still, while all of this is true, it's important to remember that there is. 475 01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:41,810 It's a long way from street culture to violent jihadism, and the overwhelming majority are not drawn towards it. 476 01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,610 At least that's what our data indicates. 477 01:00:47,930 --> 01:00:56,419 And this, maybe more importantly, this resistance that emerges from the street is probably more important than the 478 01:00:56,420 --> 01:01:02,629 kind of counter-radicalization efforts done by the government or of municipalities, 479 01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:09,950 sort of police or all of these other agents that are trying to fight terror or extremism, 480 01:01:10,340 --> 01:01:19,700 because people will listen more to their friends, listen more to the cultural codes in the environment they are in and so on. 481 01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:27,470 And it's also a very practical thing where you can play on this resistance to get information and so on. 482 01:01:28,970 --> 01:01:36,950 So jihadi groups, association to street culture finally make mainstream mobilisation more difficult. 483 01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:48,530 It it kind of limits, while it's a way to get new members is also is also a very effective way to stop more broad and mainstream mobilisation. 484 01:01:49,070 --> 01:02:10,250 Very few Salafi or conservative or highly religious people will want to be associated with a group of former drug users and street criminals. 485 01:02:10,260 --> 01:02:19,999 So when that becomes the face of a movement, it's a way of getting very highly potentially violent people that can fight then all of that, 486 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,140 but are also a way to to make it stay within that group. 487 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,220 So what not. My last slide. 488 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:41,150 So there's been a downfall of ISIS and somehow jihadism since seems to be a little bit out of fashion and it's not that important anymore. 489 01:02:41,150 --> 01:02:44,299 It's lost some kind of momentum with the downfall of ISIS. 490 01:02:44,300 --> 01:02:56,740 But I think the mechanisms described are very similar to other kinds of political and religious movements or radical lawlessness. 491 01:02:57,170 --> 01:03:08,910 Right wing extremism, for example, we know have always attracted criminals for exactly the same reasons and also may be left wing and extremists. 492 01:03:08,990 --> 01:03:12,710 And extremism has done the same. 493 01:03:13,490 --> 01:03:23,120 And someone told me now that left wing extremist means the most violent in in northern Europe because they attack right wing extremists. 494 01:03:24,140 --> 01:03:29,720 But the right wing extremists won't tell the police or anyone else because it's ruins their self image. 495 01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,230 They don't want to be portrayed as as victims. 496 01:03:34,910 --> 01:03:46,549 So I hope that the ideas, the concepts the processes describe is not about jihadism or Islam, as with culture, 497 01:03:46,550 --> 01:03:55,940 but it's more generally about the movement from regular street crime and street culture to religious and political movements. 498 01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:57,920 Thanks.