1 00:00:12,610 --> 00:00:18,170 Welcome to our listeners to what is our very first podcast here from the University of Oxford. 2 00:00:18,190 --> 00:00:22,810 My name is Professor Irene Tracy and I have the good fortune of being the vice chancellor 3 00:00:22,990 --> 00:00:27,820 at this fabulous university where we've got amazing researchers and fabulous staff. 4 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,460 And what we thought we'd do is experiment. 5 00:00:30,670 --> 00:00:38,110 I'm an experimentalist and try something a little new and different and start to bring some of that amazing content that we have here 6 00:00:38,110 --> 00:00:45,310 in university from our researchers and our teaching staff and our staff supporting our great mission of teaching and research to you. 7 00:00:45,730 --> 00:00:48,760 And so again, welcome to this podcast. 8 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:54,070 And I'm absolutely thrilled that just coming out of the back of International Women's Day last week, 9 00:00:54,580 --> 00:00:59,200 being a woman myself from STEM, I wanted to highlight are women in STEM. 10 00:00:59,230 --> 00:01:05,960 And so today I have our very first podcast, Professor Sonya Kontagora, who is from the Department of Physics. 11 00:01:05,980 --> 00:01:12,070 Welcome, Sonya. And we have a Dphil student, Nisha Patel, who is from the engineering department. 12 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:17,290 So two fantastic departments here in the division of Maths and Physical Sciences and 13 00:01:17,290 --> 00:01:20,439 two fabulous women who I know we're going to have a terrific conversation with. 14 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,250 So welcome both of you to the podcast and thank you for giving up your time this morning. 15 00:01:25,430 --> 00:01:30,440 Can I start with you, Sonia? I think it'll be really helpful for the listeners just to hear a little bit about your area of 16 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,790 research and maybe if you want to touch on a little bit your journey to this place as well. 17 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:41,450 Tell us about what your research is. I am a physicist and I work in biological systems as a physicist. 18 00:01:42,170 --> 00:01:49,490 I have physics questions like why the universe created matter that was soft and that matter became a life, 19 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:56,149 but also have an experimental physics interest in the matter and also understanding and 20 00:01:56,150 --> 00:02:00,420 supporting other research that is going in biological and medical sciences with my technique. 21 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,179 So I like to create techniques such as the best, usually based in the atomic force microscope, 22 00:02:05,180 --> 00:02:09,229 to allows us to understand how biological systems are constructed from the 23 00:02:09,230 --> 00:02:15,650 nanometre scale up mechanically and how that system that is dissipating energy, 24 00:02:15,650 --> 00:02:24,370 using energy becomes able to be alive and try to use this knowledge to create maybe new therapeutics or support people. 25 00:02:24,380 --> 00:02:27,200 As a person that's worked in your imaging my whole career, you know, 26 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:34,519 I value the contribution that people coming from your discipline and strength and background brings to the biological, the medical sciences. 27 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:40,909 Without really physicists, we wouldn't have all the technologies and the ways that we can, again, better understand life on earth. 28 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:44,180 So you have very, very, very interesting. Well, let me turn to Misha. 29 00:02:44,390 --> 00:02:49,549 That's in a very different sort of space. Tell us about your work. Yeah, so I'm an engineer. 30 00:02:49,550 --> 00:02:57,260 My background is in mechanical engineering, and I've always been interested in using engineering to make the world more sustainable place. 31 00:02:57,260 --> 00:03:04,340 I've had a keen interest in sustainability throughout my studies and at the moment I'm doing my PhD in offshore renewable energy, 32 00:03:04,670 --> 00:03:08,840 specifically in tidal stream energy. I'm focusing on the UK, 33 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:15,530 mainly on a case of the north coast of Scotland and trying to quantify the resource so that we can kind of know how much tidal 34 00:03:15,530 --> 00:03:22,700 stream energy we can actually get in the UK and how we can use that with other forms of renewable energy like wind or solar, 35 00:03:22,970 --> 00:03:27,320 and to really support renewable energies and drive the whole green technology. 36 00:03:27,530 --> 00:03:31,309 I mean, there's been a little talk about the tidal, you know, opportunities. 37 00:03:31,310 --> 00:03:36,500 How optimistic are you that this is really going to be something that we could deliver as an alternative energy source for us? 38 00:03:36,830 --> 00:03:42,860 Yeah, you're not wrong at all. Tidal energy, I suppose when you compare it to something like offshore wind, it's very young. 39 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,040 It's you know, you're dealing with turbines under water, that's always going to be much more difficult. 40 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,299 You know, you got bigger forces because of the density of the water and things like that. 41 00:03:53,300 --> 00:03:56,420 But I think there's a significant potential for tidal. 42 00:03:56,420 --> 00:03:56,930 She manages. 43 00:03:56,930 --> 00:04:04,790 Something I particularly look at is what are the constraints, limiting it and trying to work out what actually is a viable energy at the end of that. 44 00:04:05,450 --> 00:04:08,630 But I mean, hopefully I'd have to be quite positive about it. 45 00:04:09,770 --> 00:04:13,729 But the UK, I mean, we're in a really fortunate position with the resource that we have in the UK. 46 00:04:13,730 --> 00:04:18,500 And going back to to use on your you've written this book Nano Comes to Life. 47 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:24,200 Why did you do that? What was I mean it's not easy to in the day job find time to to write a book. 48 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:33,859 No the public had a story to tell. I wanted to I also part of the frustration of of entering a new world, the world of biology as a physicist. 49 00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:39,320 On being so difficult to do multidisciplinary research that is so difficult to actually 50 00:04:39,620 --> 00:04:43,429 be able to combine the disciplines that you think you need to combine to make progress. 51 00:04:43,430 --> 00:04:54,650 So I, I was interested in how and why historically physicists enter the nanoscale with techniques such as mine or nanoparticles. 52 00:04:54,920 --> 00:05:01,579 We all arrive to nanotechnology at the same time and how that progressively led us to biology, 53 00:05:01,580 --> 00:05:10,549 both to develop tools to understand the basic mechanisms of biology, of the nanometre scale proteins, etcetera, but also to develop nano medicines. 54 00:05:10,550 --> 00:05:14,300 And that how that is transforming the way we're doing biology. 55 00:05:14,300 --> 00:05:20,720 And I also think the way we we're doing part of physics, that interface between physics and biology, 56 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:29,870 which is now everywhere from computer science to understanding intelligence, to create new materials, to create new robots. 57 00:05:29,870 --> 00:05:34,669 All sorts of technologies depend on this convergence of physics and biology. 58 00:05:34,670 --> 00:05:40,610 So I wanted to explore that in that book. And what does it mean for the future of what we understand? 59 00:05:40,610 --> 00:05:45,439 I think about biology and also the physics we will do in the future and share the excitement of it. 60 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:52,519 Yes, So that is nano comes to life. For those looking for a stocking filler, maybe for next Christmas or earlier. 61 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,470 Indeed. Well, let's let's change tack a little bit and we'll come back to sort of at the end maybe just 62 00:05:57,590 --> 00:06:01,190 where your science is going and what you see as the next exciting step for yourselves. 63 00:06:01,190 --> 00:06:06,580 But let's go back to sort of where it all began and maybe I can turn to Misha just to say so. 64 00:06:06,590 --> 00:06:11,870 We were always interested in science at school. Was this something that you knew from Young you wanted to do? 65 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,400 Were you inspired by anybody in particular at school, a school teacher or somebody else? 66 00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:20,270 Yeah. So I think I mean, definitely have a lot to thank my teachers for. 67 00:06:20,660 --> 00:06:24,410 I was really lucky that the school I went to was encouraged to pursue STEM. 68 00:06:24,410 --> 00:06:28,260 I always knew. Aftermaths. I can't say I love it. 69 00:06:28,310 --> 00:06:33,680 Maybe all the silences as much as I love maths, but I definitely love maths and I did enjoy physics as well. 70 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,079 And I would say that there's 2 to 3 teachers that really come to mind when I think 71 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,340 about who inspired me and kind of shaped me to kind of be in engineering now, 72 00:06:44,030 --> 00:06:52,489 two of whom were actually my math teachers, and they really fostered my love for the subject, and I don't suppose I probably realised it at the time. 73 00:06:52,490 --> 00:07:01,130 But looking back now, I think it was really powerful to actually see to both women who are actually also South Asian as really brilliant, 74 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:09,500 talented mathematicians. And so now when I look back at that, I think I would have had a really big impact on me and the teacher was my form tutor. 75 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:17,899 So he never taught me a subject. He actually taught French and he just really instilled confidence in myself and my classmates. 76 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:22,639 He really encouraged us to stand up, speak up, question things he'd come in with, you know, 77 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,050 a topic each day, each week, and get us to, you know, tell us our opinions about it. 78 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:34,159 So, yeah, I think all of those sort of factors have kind of played into where I am now and today. 79 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,200 Yeah, no, it just I mean, it speaks I mean, you spoke so well there about just the importance of teachers, 80 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,729 but also the visibility issue, which often and that's been my experience too. 81 00:07:43,730 --> 00:07:48,139 You don't recognise actually how important it is, as you say, to have that visibility at the time. 82 00:07:48,140 --> 00:07:51,920 But on reflection, you realise actually that really did unlock the belief, 83 00:07:52,130 --> 00:07:57,170 you know, that you can go into that subject and, and you know, pursue your dream. 84 00:07:57,170 --> 00:08:04,430 And, and again, I think, you know, I'm a big obviously as an educator myself, I'm a passionate believer in the importance of teachers, you know, 85 00:08:04,430 --> 00:08:07,729 in our society and just the amazing role that they play and how much more we 86 00:08:07,730 --> 00:08:11,330 should value them and show our value of them in this in this country and beyond. 87 00:08:11,810 --> 00:08:17,690 So, Sonia, your journey was sort of hit. You know, you've come to us from outside of our shores. 88 00:08:17,690 --> 00:08:25,219 So tell us a little bit about sort of where you were inspired and your journey to Oxford had a complicated journey to science and to Oxford. 89 00:08:25,220 --> 00:08:32,210 I grew up in the Canary Islands in for the winter, just after the dictatorship of Franco ended. 90 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,850 So it was a hopeful time in Spain. But I was in an island where there was no much resources. 91 00:08:38,060 --> 00:08:41,570 We didn't even have very regular school. 92 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:42,920 We had lots of holidays. 93 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:52,010 So I was great because I just spent a childhood running wild in between volcanoes and and see my parents were not educated either. 94 00:08:52,010 --> 00:08:55,220 So I never occurred to me I was going to study. 95 00:08:55,700 --> 00:09:05,630 Then we moved to Madrid and I had an I, I think from my missing nature, I think got me interested in physics, missing my life in the island. 96 00:09:06,350 --> 00:09:11,450 And I was quite I was again, a teacher, a female teacher of physics. 97 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,740 And I always remember the day where we were, I think we were doing gravitation. 98 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:24,439 And the first time I realised that I could use my intuition to express how I think things will happen in the future, 99 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,409 in the natural world with mathematics, that that magical moment where you can express an intuition in math. 100 00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:36,530 It was this act of magic that I have to be a physicist is a lightning bolt, and there was no going back. 101 00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:40,160 So then I studied physics in Madrid. I didn't like it. 102 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:45,920 I didn't like the middle class environment. I didn't fit. I was good at languages and I started travelling. 103 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,249 I went to Russia, then I went to China for scholarships. 104 00:09:49,250 --> 00:09:55,490 I did my period in Japan. Yeah. Interested in in, in, in how Japan became a technological country. 105 00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:59,060 And a bit by chance, I ended up in Oxford. 106 00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:08,450 Yeah. And I must say in Oxford I found there was a place for my love of physics that I hadn't found anywhere else. 107 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:15,140 Oh, I'm pleased to hear that I found colleagues with when I shared this deep love of the subject. 108 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:18,860 And I think that kept me here. Yeah, the passion for it. Yeah. 109 00:10:18,860 --> 00:10:25,160 I mean, we do have that here. Yeah. That we were so fortunate to have colleagues that are so passionate about their subjects areas and, 110 00:10:25,460 --> 00:10:29,150 you know, that naturally is spilling into the teaching element as well, you know, 111 00:10:29,150 --> 00:10:30,290 and that's why I think, you know, 112 00:10:30,290 --> 00:10:37,400 all our USP is about having those frontline researchers do the teaching because that can be really inspiring then for the next generation. 113 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:43,219 But, you know, we spoke a little bit about sort of women invisibility. I mean, you're obviously a senior professor in the department. 114 00:10:43,220 --> 00:10:49,520 And, you know, I'm interested to explore, you know, what you see as some of the, you know, the opportunities, 115 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:54,260 but also the challenges as a woman in STEM in terms of other women following in your path. 116 00:10:54,620 --> 00:11:00,469 Could you just maybe describe a little bit, you know, what you've observed and you know what you see as some of the the ways we can 117 00:11:00,470 --> 00:11:05,600 do things better that you could share with with both me as vice chancellor, 118 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,690 but also with, you know, maybe some of the younger career women. I just, you know, listening to you, I never had any career. 119 00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:18,019 I was I didn't fit in any of the stages of of my my career that I didn't fit where I was. 120 00:11:18,020 --> 00:11:24,440 It was not just because of I was a woman, I think was class as well It was is many things is very intersectional that. 121 00:11:24,910 --> 00:11:26,620 The way your career progresses. 122 00:11:28,390 --> 00:11:36,640 I think that the challenges where very few women in physics and in engineering and many of the stereotypes of steel are very strong, 123 00:11:38,170 --> 00:11:44,739 women are struggle to to handle both the personal career, the career and the personal life. 124 00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:52,930 And there's no going away from this. We live in a society that has not valued women in our subject, particularly in physics. 125 00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:56,740 Physics has a history of misogyny. 126 00:11:57,490 --> 00:12:07,090 Many of the biggest myths of physics have publicly expressed very misogynistic views such and this is still in the subject. 127 00:12:07,090 --> 00:12:12,150 So I think we need is very hard to understand on this. 128 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,490 When you're a young woman, why you feel so bad, why you don't fit. 129 00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:21,520 And I think the key to all this is to start deconstructing this identities of science, 130 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:27,160 which is we're doing we're doing now in MPLS through some of the programs where we are doing of of, 131 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,280 I should say, MPLS is the physical Life sciences division. 132 00:12:30,430 --> 00:12:36,969 So the construct what is the identity of a science and help women to understand why 133 00:12:36,970 --> 00:12:41,170 they don't feel okay that other women are feeling the same as them creating networks, 134 00:12:41,170 --> 00:12:49,690 trying to create a collective understanding of of of how we can support people to change their local environments so they are accepted. 135 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,680 I think having, as you say, more, more visible role models and having those conversations, 136 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:57,100 I mean, how do you see that improving and what more could we could we be doing? 137 00:12:57,310 --> 00:13:06,340 We need to be honest. We need to explain the good part and the bad part of our careers, need role models, need to be real. 138 00:13:06,340 --> 00:13:09,669 I think we need to be authentic. 139 00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:15,190 Also, we need to. So there are role models. Maybe there are no so high up in the hierarchy about people that have very fruitful and 140 00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:20,169 interesting and careers that they help a lot of people that the students do very well, 141 00:13:20,170 --> 00:13:24,340 that they have collaborations with the local communities, and these are very valuable careers. 142 00:13:24,340 --> 00:13:31,800 We also need to and we should be celebrating this. There's not a single there's not a single career for women in STEM. 143 00:13:31,810 --> 00:13:35,380 We have to run away from the stereotype of women in STEM, I think, 144 00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:43,990 because as one thing you discover in science is that you only become a good sciences when you are absolutely yourself. 145 00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:47,170 Yeah, you can only do good science when you are very authentic. 146 00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:52,389 Yeah. And this is what we should promote and explore more. 147 00:13:52,390 --> 00:13:59,350 We need to communicate. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, when I was a head of department, you know, one of the things I observed when we would, 148 00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:04,960 you know, celebrating our women from our research staff and clinical staff and, 149 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,419 and support staff and talking about, you know, the career trajectories was, 150 00:14:10,420 --> 00:14:17,110 was actually expressing to the younger generation that there wasn't this magic template of one model that you suddenly had to find. 151 00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:18,550 And that was the secret to success. 152 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:25,120 Every single person who had progressed their career had taken a different journey and a different route there that was, 153 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:31,929 you know, difficult or was less difficult. It was a range, but they found their way through it, their own personal journey. 154 00:14:31,930 --> 00:14:35,290 And again, as you say, that means that it's it's authentic for them. 155 00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:42,370 And I think that was quite eye opening, actually, for some of the younger researchers that, 156 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,000 you know, there wasn't this mystery thing that we somehow were hiding from them. 157 00:14:46,690 --> 00:14:53,770 It genuinely is difficult. And but there are people there that can help you and support you and never to not ask for help. 158 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,350 I think that's one of the things I often say to young researchers is, you know, really, honestly, 159 00:14:59,350 --> 00:15:04,839 very few people are not going to help you if you ask them for help and give you advice and and support you. 160 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,430 And so really inculcating that sense of, as you said, getting them to talk together, 161 00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:14,200 to create networks, to create mentorship and to champion each other, to really behind the scenes, 162 00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:18,250 be championing that person, making it visible, you know, doing things like this, you know, 163 00:15:18,250 --> 00:15:22,510 getting getting people to come and have a platform to be able to talk about their work. 164 00:15:23,470 --> 00:15:29,520 You know, this is the way that we can, again, highlight and and support, you know, particularly our women, I think, instead. 165 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,510 Misha, let's turn to you and hear a little bit from your perspective at the sort of early stage of a career, 166 00:15:34,510 --> 00:15:38,920 how you have found, you know, particularly Oxford in terms of, you know, 167 00:15:39,850 --> 00:15:44,290 as a woman in STEM and in engineering, what you see is, you know, some of the things that have been, 168 00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:47,560 you know, good and not so good and that we could we could improve them. 169 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,389 Absolutely. So I think you mean and Sonia and yourself mentioned networks, 170 00:15:52,390 --> 00:16:00,959 and that's been a huge part of my time here at Oxford and it's been a huge part of my support group as well. 171 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,020 They support community. 172 00:16:02,860 --> 00:16:10,750 So when I joined Oxford, I first one of the first things I looked for was a sort of a women in STEM women and engineering network. 173 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,150 And not long after the engineering department were relaunching that Women in Engineering Network. 174 00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:24,280 So within my first year I joined the steering committee group for that as vice president and I was on that committee for. 175 00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:32,400 Yes. And vice president for the majority of that time. And it was it had a huge impact on my experience here. 176 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,630 The colleagues I had throughout the network were fantastic. 177 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,020 And it also really gave us a chance to discuss with the department, you know, 178 00:16:42,090 --> 00:16:47,460 senior levels what we can be implementing and how we can be, you know, supporting women. 179 00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:52,629 And the second network is the black Indigenous people of colour and STEM networks, 180 00:16:52,630 --> 00:16:57,660 or the Bipoc STEM network, which I think was founded maybe shortly before I joined Oxford. 181 00:16:57,990 --> 00:17:01,950 And I joined that as a member and then recently became co-convenor. 182 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,940 And Sonia has also mentioned intersectionality, which I feel extremely passionate about. 183 00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:14,069 I think it's absolutely key to keep intersectionality at the forefront of the conversation regarding equality, 184 00:17:14,070 --> 00:17:19,770 diversity, inclusion, because I don't really think you can achieve any aims without considering that. 185 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:26,339 So that's been a huge part. And I have to mention the professional services staff who have been absolutely 186 00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:30,300 instrumental in supporting us as and as networks through women engineering. 187 00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:36,150 So the coordinators and MPLS, the events team and access and outreach team engineering. 188 00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:45,149 And then obviously as a student, my there's lots of people within the department and my college that have been absolutely fantastic and supportive. 189 00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:47,969 I've got a great supervision team. U.S. 190 00:17:47,970 --> 00:17:55,920 Katz Yeah, I think and they've been absolutely fantastic and my supervision team within the engineering department. 191 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:02,729 So Professor Tom Adcock, Dr. Amanda Smith and I have another supervisor and Edinburgh have been incredibly supportive, 192 00:18:02,730 --> 00:18:06,809 not only in terms of my research, which absolutely, yeah, 193 00:18:06,810 --> 00:18:08,460 they're fantastic supervisors, 194 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:17,970 but also really supportive of the work that I do with these networks internally with the university and also all the things I do externally. 195 00:18:18,450 --> 00:18:24,779 So I think that's a huge part. And in terms of what we can do better, I think where I've been so involved in that work, 196 00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:30,750 something I've really realised is how important it is to recognise the contribution that these networks make. 197 00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:37,320 Yeah, I think it's so important something is to actually value the time and effort that's 198 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,810 being put into it and giving appropriate compensation for that time and effort, 199 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:49,320 because I don't think it only shows it does show appreciation for the value and benefits that it's providing the university. 200 00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:53,110 But I also think it's the only way to make these efforts sustainable. Yeah. 201 00:18:53,190 --> 00:19:00,780 Now you've touched on so many important things that you're absolutely right, and I think that sort of reward system, for want of a better expression, 202 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:07,409 is something that, again, you know, I'm very interested in looking at in terms of how we can, you know, better again, 203 00:19:07,410 --> 00:19:14,100 put that value system and explicitly say compensate, as you put it, for the effort that's gone in, 204 00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:19,469 because we have to sort of put real meaning behind it and make sure that there's traction 205 00:19:19,470 --> 00:19:22,350 so that what's coming out of those networks actually bites and carries through. 206 00:19:22,350 --> 00:19:28,050 And I have to say, I've been, you know, like like you commented, you know, the division and place has been really terrific with it. 207 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:30,600 And it's really, you know, an example of how they've done it. 208 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,159 And, you know, and I do congratulate somehow a sudden, you know, is as the head of the division that's, 209 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,540 you know, really taken this on and championed it right from the very top. And that's sort of what we need. 210 00:19:39,540 --> 00:19:45,480 We need the leaders and the men to really take ownership as well of of the challenges and to meet it. 211 00:19:45,690 --> 00:19:50,909 So let's round off just sort of hearing about where next then for your science, I'm interested to hear sort of Sonia, 212 00:19:50,910 --> 00:19:55,590 what's your big exciting project at the moment as well, and where do you hope to take things? 213 00:19:55,860 --> 00:20:00,209 Yes, I am putting together a collaboration between a neuroscientists, 214 00:20:00,210 --> 00:20:09,030 engineers and physicist to try to understand how neurones communicate with each other so that the neural networks that we're hearing in computing, 215 00:20:09,030 --> 00:20:16,410 but actually in life, I'm trying to understand the physics of how they communicate to each other and to each other. 216 00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:24,060 And actually, even more recently, we're trying to think if if we can try to explore if neurones exploit quantum resources, 217 00:20:24,060 --> 00:20:28,709 and if this can be an interesting avenue not only for understanding biology, 218 00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:33,180 but also for developing new technologies such as quantum sensors for biological purposes. 219 00:20:33,540 --> 00:20:36,389 So cool was music to my ears. As a neuroscientist, 220 00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:43,830 I applaud you for that and that'll be good to follow up with you and keep keep the conversation alive so I can find out how that's going. 221 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:49,770 And Misha, how about you sort of when do you hope to wrap up and what do you hope to do after you get your doctorate? 222 00:20:50,250 --> 00:20:53,850 Yeah, so obviously the main focus at the moment is completing his doctorate. 223 00:20:53,850 --> 00:20:58,650 So I'm looking forward to kind of I'm working on my final couple of chapters of work. 224 00:20:59,340 --> 00:21:04,950 At the moment, I'm looking at deploying different types of turbines in one site and how much we can 225 00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:08,970 actually work out what the sacrifice of energy is when we're only 2.1 type of turbine, 226 00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:10,950 which has been really exciting. 227 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:21,640 And I think beyond the Ph.D., once I've finished, I'm really looking forward to kind of I'd like to really bridge a gap between industry and academia. 228 00:21:21,660 --> 00:21:23,460 So we've discussed the private sector. 229 00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:32,820 And yeah, I'd love to sort of really work on tidal energy and how we can actually get, get, get the energy connected to the grid and things like that. 230 00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:37,020 I mean, I don't work on the energy storage side. I very much work on quantifying the resource. 231 00:21:37,620 --> 00:21:45,180 But for us actually develop this size, we need to have a number on the resource to make sure that we're effectively extracting it. 232 00:21:45,210 --> 00:21:49,800 So I'd like to really work on that side of things and especially the policy as well. 233 00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:55,860 Well, the world will be awesome. Absolutely sure of it. You know, with the training and the background you got and the energy and the commitment. 234 00:21:56,190 --> 00:22:00,840 Sonja, Misha, thank you so much for spending this time this morning. 235 00:22:00,860 --> 00:22:06,920 I've really enjoyed meeting you both. And and I know that the listeners will be absolutely captivated by what you've been able to share. 236 00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:08,250 So thank you to the listeners for listening. 237 00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:14,370 We hope to do another podcast next term to be decided yet what the subject area will be, but it'll be another stellar line up. 238 00:22:14,370 --> 00:22:19,650 I'm absolutely confident. I wish you both all the best going forwards and thank you once again for joining us. 239 00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:21,210 Thank you very much.