Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to Far and Wide.
This time we're going be on the podcast in here, the university's fantastic Botanic Garden and Arboretum.
And I'm delighted to be here with Dr. Chris Thorogood, who is the deputy director and is also head of science at this incredible garden.
We're looking at Britain's oldest botanic garden.
So founded in 1621, it was built up by, I think, 4000 wagon loads of muck and dung by the university scavenger.
So the plants grow very well, right? Good, good.
And it was particularly to grow medicinal plants to teach the university's medical students about how plants were used in herbal medicine.
Somebody who's still teaching the medical students about pain and grief and different ways that we can do that.
I am all ears to hear more about it. Yeah. Wonderful.
So we're standing here in the taxonomic beds and we have a collection of some 5000 or so different types of plant from all around the world.
And that's what's so wonderful about a university botanic garden. And this collection of plants serves a vital role in in research.
And so we have researchers sort of using these taxonomic beds as a living DNA library, if you will, of plants and also students.
And we teach in the Botanic Garden as well. So it's actually come down.
They do and they do. And so we run practicals here in the Botanic Garden with the biology students who who can actually
sort of walk through the the flowering plant family tree and so learned through that experience.
Oh how extraordinary what a truly immersive oh what and you can't beat that immersive sort of learning experience
now can you give us just sort of a quick summary and simple explanation of what you mean by taxonomy?
Because obviously a key part of the garden originally these beds were organised by how the plants appeared,
so plants that looked like one another were classified together.
But actually over the last few decades, scientists have sequenced the DNA of these plants.
And so we now know more than ever before about how these plants are related.
And so the team here is reorganised the beds according to their genetic relatedness.
And so you can walk through the DNA sort of family tree, if you will, of flowering plants, and you can see how plants are related to one another.
I mean, that's that's the wonderful thing about a botanic garden. And of course, that brings in the evolution and of the plant somewhere.
This place is fantastic. Well, look, show me some more. Please.
Follow me. Lovely to see so many people as well.
Yes, but actually not to visit during the summer holiday. It's been lovely for us to income, but yeah, it's quite gentle on the daylight.
Yeah. Yeah. So, Irene, we should stop here so I can show you our oldest living specimen.
Oh, wow. It ain't. Oh, it's in English.
You tax us back after. And it was planted in 1645 by a man called Jacob Bobo, the elder who was the Botanic Gardens first keeper.
And so he planted up the garden in 1640, and he would have planted this yew tree, along with several others, probably along this main path.
And it may have been clipped actually as part of a topiary display.
And perhaps that's one of the reasons it's a little smaller than you might expect for a tree of this age.
And we also lost some of it in Storm Cara. But new trees are very easily regenerated, and so it's actually recovered quite well.
20, 60, 45. I mean, it's just jaw dropping. Trees are my sort of favourite.
Oh, lovely. I just love the majesty of them and the fact that they live for hundreds of years, you know, particularly this particular time.
It's actually just just the history they've seen. Exactly. Sort of this this garden is it's changed through sort of the conditions,
along with Oxford a lot alongside it and the things that it's that it's seen over the course of several centuries.
Yes, exactly. Now, there's a certain sort of resonance, a whisper of of of time in the Botanic Garden when you walk among trees like these.
And we hope it will see several hundred years still. Well, let's hope. And probably time enough for us to walk to the next area.
So follow me. Right.
Okay. So we're in a very different bit of the garden cress and also quite a bit different looking for a garden green.
So we were in the the walled physic garden, as was the historic garden.
We've entered the lower garden, so it's a lot less formal. Yep.
And we're standing at the moment in our rock garden, which has a mediterranean theme.
It really does. And I love fish. It does. It does. It's really evocative.
And that's exactly what we wanted to achieve, to give people that experience,
to walk through a gallery or a marquee, as we call it, vegetation type, those lovely oils utilised from the plants.
Certainly the smells. Absolutely. Yeah. I just feel like I'm in the Mediterranean.
A little mini break, not of the middle left city centre or the high street.
We have. Fantastic, great. And there's something special you want to show me as well as I read The Sun.
Yeah. I think bracing myself for this. Come on. So my no risk assessment.
Oh, I got a photo of it at my office. Yeah, exactly. We had Raymond Blanc here and he started eating well, so.
Right. No, no. So let me introduce you the squirting cucumber.
You're kidding. This is a this is actually a relative of the cucumber that we're familiar with, but this is not an edible one, okay?
And it's actually explosive. So this is the the little missile waiting to explode.
And so this capsule has a build up entirely of trigger pressure.
So water build up in inside the capsule. And what this does is it fires the seeds out in a jets that's quite explosive and quite disturbing.
So I'm going to try and direct it away from us. Okay. And are we ready?
Yeah, I'm ready. Ready? Go for it. Oh, gee.
Wow. That was spectacular. Well, why? Why does it do it now?
You know, that's one of the questions we're actually seeking to understand.
I mean, so we've done all sorts of things with these squirting cucumbers from C.T.,
scanning them to mathematically modelling them to answer those questions.
How and why are these plants the way they are? How how? With a mathematician, where's the math?
If this cucumber fires its seeds over the course of, let's say, nine metres,
and if those seeds grow and certain numbers survive, what would that look like in future generations?
And then we can start to understand, well,
what might be the selective advantage in terms of evolution for these fruits exploding their seeds in a sort of linear transect,
if you like, of several metres?
And it might be that that's to get the future generations of plants away from the parent plant to reduce competition, for example.
So it makes such sense. And I explained, I thought, okay, I got to have a go.
Is that, is that can I please to give it a gentle touch? And it should we go?
Oh, wow. We got it. Yeah, I know.
Spectacular. Very sensitive. So it'll just spontaneously do that.
Yeah, it does. At some point when it will do it of its own accord, when it reaches a sort of a certain threshold.
But otherwise, if you touch it, then it does it early. So, you know, it was it was impressive.
Okay, let's get somewhere safe. Yeah, at any rate.
Thanks, Chris. That was terrific. That's a good one. That's a good one.
So, Chris, you brought me to this bit. Now I can hear some kids playing rugby in the background there, which is lovely to hear.
We've got birds squawking and twittering away. I'm looking at probably foxes most spectacular border.
Tell me why you wanted to show me this. Happy to hear you say that already.
So. So we're standing. We still in the low regard and we standing next to the herbaceous border.
And it's I love it because it just changes so much with the seasons. So if you come here in the spring, you'll see all the bulbs flowering.
And then in September, it's just this sort of riot of colour and everything sort of jostling for space, jostling for position.
And I think it's a real spectacle. And you know,
we have 200,000 or so people come to the Botanic Garden Arboretum every year and they they love seeing this this border and walking past.
And I think more than that, more than people loving to see it.
I think it's actually really an important part of Oxford Green Estates, the Botanic Garden and the people find sanctuary here.
And and it's an important part of people's mental health and wellbeing.
Coming to green spaces like this couldn't agree more. I mean, I think we saw that during the pandemic.
People just really sought out, didn't they? Getting into parks, having, I think, an appreciation again of just the value they did and they did.
And we saw that and we saw people actually have quite an emotional response when they came back to the arboretum in particular,
actually a really, really strong connection with the site.
Yeah, I know that you're doing some collaboration with some of my colleagues, you know, as a neuroscientist and things.
So tell me a little bit more about the sort of programmes you do in there. Yeah.
So we work closely with Professor John Geddes and his team on the flourishing theme of his biomedical research centre projects,
particularly seeking to understand we talk about the benefits that green spaces in nature bring to mental health, brain health and wellbeing.
But how do we how do we understand what that looks like?
What is a dose of green health, for example? And so we're very much looking forward to working with John and his colleagues to use
these green spaces as as sort of living laboratories for seeking to understand that.
So that's a really exciting piece of work and get some sort of data, you know, evidence exactly how we can then roll back that evidence base quite.
And then also link to that, we're doing a lot of work engaging with new audiences and underrepresented groups at both our sites as well,
so that as many people as possible can benefit from what green spaces like ours have to offer.
Fantastic. On a 200,000 businesses, you said that's just heart warming for me to hear, because as you know,
I'm really passionate about our role in the local community and the national.
And again, having this extraordinary privilege sets the places that we've got and we get
the chance to look after and curate available for more people to come and see.
So it's just wonderful. It's a privilege. Yeah. Fantastic. Wow. And we're seeing it on its best.
You say September is is the sort of it's it's a little past.
Just a little over. A little. Okay. Okay. And it's been a difficult summer, but it's still looking fine.
Yeah. No complaints are really great.
So we got. Yeah, well, so, Chris, we're in the boiling glasshouse.
Sweltering. It's like a sauna. I want to hear about your research.
You've told us about the amazing collaborations you're doing with psychiatry and with maths,
but I know that you've got a very particular interest in your research area, so let's hear about your work and tell us why we're in here.
Thanks. I mean, well, I work with Boston, so all over the world,
but I'm going to tell you about a particular set of projects that I've been working on quite recently,
broadly under the subject of Biomimetics, which is how we can look at nature for solutions to problems in design and technology, for example.
And I start with a little story. So we have in front of us these botanical enigmas, as I think you have these extraordinary floating platforms.
So these are the world's largest floating leaves. They belong to the genus Victoria, and these are actually quite small.
In the middle of the summer, they are even growing larger. So it's a giant Amazonian waterlily And my physicist friends,
I was showing them on this pond and they said to me, Chris, how long do these leaves grow so large?
And I said, Oh, well, you know, leaves it for photosynthesis. The larger the surface area, better it serves the plants.
But they said, well, you know, but not all these great that large. And so I thought, well this is curious how why do these leaves grow so large?
And so we did a bit of research and to our astonishment, no one had actually sought to answer that question.
How and why do these water lilies grow so large?
And so we set about to to address that, and we did all sorts of experiments to look at the load bearing capacity,
the strength, the elasticity and all sorts of other things.
So we were prodding them, sinking them, pulverising them, weighing them.
And what we found is that the the structure of this enormous leaf, right, is what defines its strength and ability and ability to grow so large.
And so you can see one that the team here flipped over.
So you see the underside you see So that's the underside, right? Oh, that's it's pretty robust.
Yeah. And it has this this extraordinary lattice of sort of intersecting girders, if you like, and then those are covered in a very thin.
Sort of elastic sheets. And actually what we found, again, through mathematical modelling is that for this size, the optimum is this structure.
In other words, it's the minimum amount of stuff that you can formulate to cover the largest amount of surface area
and still be strong enough to withstand any sort of perturbations or stresses in your environment.
And of course, there's a cost to growing such a large because you have to service your real estate.
It requires plumbing and maintenance. And so that's that's what we found.
So this is an economically very efficient structure.
And why we think that's exciting is that that might be a source of inspiration for, for example, floating offshore solar farms.
So we're very excited about that. And then as we're standing here, this is another well, picture plant.
So, yeah, no, that was actually fascinating. Yeah. So wait, why are you into them?
You know, I've always loved these plants ever since I was a kid. And so I feel so lucky to be able to actually work in them now here in Oxford.
But we're interested in why particular these slippery rims that insects tumble off of and fall into this stomach, if you will.
How why are they such different shapes and sizes, the different geometries?
And so my my clever colleagues have done all sorts of mathematical modelling, too,
to look at computational insects and how they behave on different parts of that structure.
And what we found in our recent research is that the different geometries of these periosteum,
as they're called on the trap, have a profound impact on the size of the type of prey that these plants can attract.
And so when we think of, for example,
Darwin's finches in the Galapagos Islands and they have different beak shapes that are adapted to tapping into different sources of food.
So with plants such as these, they have different shapes and sizes of trap.
So if if I can ask you to feel the surface and you feel it's rough in one plane and smooth in another was silky and lovely.
So it's covered in these ridges that you can think of as energy railings.
Might my physicist colleagues call them? And these actually direct insects into the trap in a way that's not arbitrary.
So they're slipping in a way that's very tightly controlled. They sort of driven into the trap.
And this also has an application in microfluidics and a former technology called slip slippery,
liquid infused poor surface technology slips, which is used in all sorts of everyday objects.
And so microfluidics are used in medical devices and also inkjet printers.
And this can be informed by these wonderful adaptive surfaces in picture paths.
Well, of course, plants have had millions of years of evolution and to fine tune exactly how they do things.
So, you know, we often think that we know everything,
but there's so much amazing stuff that we just need to keep learning from plants so much we can learn from it.
Right. You know, I can't help but observe the glass houses.
Look. You know, they look old and they look like they need a bit more TLC,
or we need to just really radically improve the working conditions that you have here.
So tell me about the ambition for that and how can we help?
Yeah, So that's that's our big priority here at the Botanic Garden is to fundraise for new glasshouses.
So just as you say, I mean, the the beautiful though the plants are that are grown in size,
the infrastructure itself is beyond its sort of use by date, to be honest.
So the glass, as it were, built in the early 1970s, and they're not really in some places fit for purpose now.
And so it's it's vital that to achieve this mission of inspiring people with the scientific wonder plants and
growing these wonderful things to support research and education that we have the infrastructure to support that.
So that's our our priority here is, is to actually build new glass houses to enable us to do that and actually done so.
I should add that it will reduce our carbon footprint by 92% if we have new glass houses because these are linked online.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because energy isn't pouring out. Exactly. So it's very important for us.
Okay, well, that's that's a great challenge. So notice. So, Chris, we're getting to sort of what I call 10:00 time of the evening.
I'm smelling juniper. I'm seeing these beautiful roses. I know that you make something very special here with the botanicals.
Tell me about it. So we're sitting in the gin, but actually, I say my favourite go to place.
So? So we actually have a partnership with Oxford Office and Distillery who harvest Botanicals from the Botanic Garden to make physic gin.
And the list of botanicals is actually inspired by that original list of plants that were grown here in the Botanic Garden in 1648.
So it's a little bit like drinking history. So it's a very special gin. It's also our blockbuster product in the Botanic Garden shop as well.
So it's what does that say? Commercial income. Yeah, about our businesses.
But, you know, commercial income is important to Botanic Garden.
And we also develop for example, we're sitting next to this lovely rose, which I know you just pointed out, which is Oxford Physic Rose,
which was also developed by us in partnership with a rose breeder as well, and launched at the Chelsea Flower Show last year as well.
And it's it's beautiful, isn't it? And that was to celebrate the 400th anniversary.
It's a beautiful rose. It's up to 11. It looks pretty resilient to.
Yes, I understand it. Yes. Special things that affect roses.
Yeah. So, Chris, before I have them, my gin and tonic this evening.
You know, why should a university like Oxford have a botanic garden?
Tell us why it's so important to have places like this. Plants are actually the answer to many of the global challenges that we face.
Plants are the food we eat, the clothes we wear, the medicines we take.
And yet we live in an era when many people actually scarcely notice the plants or don't engage with them.
So we as human beings, as animals, are very much attuned to other animals and in our world, less so plants actually.
And this is a phenomenon that social scientists have called metaphorically plant blindness.
We're simply less attuned to seeing them in the environments around us.
And that's worrying at a time when two in five of the world's plant species are now threatened with extinction.
So we need to care about plants. You know, they are fundamental to our existence.
They're under threat. So it's never been more important. And our mission is to engage people with the scientific wonder of plants.
That's what we're truly passionate about. Well, you're doing a fantastic job of it.
And and again, the platform we have is, you know, one of the world's big universities to also champion and speak about the work that you're doing.
Be assured we'll do everything we can and I will to support it. So all I can say is thank you so much for spending this time.
It's been a real treat for me to get out and just have this afternoon wish you all the very best with the research and the teaching that you're doing.
I can't wait to bring some of the medical students down to again, show them some of the pain relieving medicines in the physic garden.
And and I say it's time for that gin and tonic. Absolutely.