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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen,

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good afternoon and welcome to this big four out of five seminar in which we're exploring access to higher education companies and universities.

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And my name is Andrew Bell. I'm senior teacher at University College here in Oxford.

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It's a real pleasure to be chairing. I'm sure it's going to be an absolutely fantastic seminar today.

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And before it gets underway,

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can I just remind you that as with all of the previous seminars we have being recorded for posterity so they too can share in today's presentation?

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And so please understand this to be a public occasion.

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We've we've had opportunity to explore a wide range of things to do with access to higher

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education as recently as bringing together policy makers and practitioners and those,

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of course, who simply have an interest arising out of their professional lives.

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And I think when it comes to matters of access to higher education for those

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in the field and many beyond the field have a strong sense of what we feel,

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and some of this may go beyond that and even know what we think.

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So I hope that we're going to go one step further and we're going to hear something about how we might actually shape our understanding

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and how we might direct our future activities in a way that's informed by really the very best research that's underway.

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Time to speak, Professor. Thank you for that. Professor of Sociology at the University of Durham has very long standing research

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interest in precisely these questions of access to higher education and social mobility,

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including the very complex question of social mobility across a number of a number of generations.

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And she's going to bring to bear on these questions a very complicated approach which reaches out to policy,

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but which is also to provide advice and research on a notably.

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Many here today and many have said the subsequent session.

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You feel that we could pick more of the conversations that we could have reframed in terms of the evidence and the arguments that evidence so bad.

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We've got a couple of respondents to that, Harrison, who's director of the research centre in the Commons situation here.

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He will be offering his perspective on Vicky's presentation of the research centre, as many people know is concerned with.

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Research has to do with the progress and outcomes of those who've experienced foster

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care problems faced by their families here tonight and then subsequently Peter Tolan,

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whose research focuses not on that, but in fact, all the classical world it's going to be bringing to that a practitioner perspective as

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someone who has a longstanding engagement in admissions at this very seductive university.

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And then after that, we'll make sure that there's lots of time for discussion and the questions.

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Now we don't know precisely what, but he's going to talk about tonight.

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So I've not seen the script, but I do feel that the title promoting fair access to higher education,

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the necessity of contextualised admissions might give us a bit of this to where she's coming from.

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And so with that, thank you very much, Professor Panopto.

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Are you keeping up welcome, it's actually fabulous to be talking about this topic at Lady Margaret Hall,

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which of course, is the Oxford College that's pioneering contextualise submissions for the university,

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with its foundation here targeted at disadvantaged students who would not be likely to get the very high grades that this university asks for.

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I'm imagining, therefore, that some of you will be inclined to agree with what I'm going to say tonight.

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Others, perhaps not so. Looking forward to not just preaching to the converted,

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but to actually see if I can give a few of you to the idea that if we want a better mission system, contextualised admissions is the way to go.

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So let's begin with some background. So I think it's always useful to remind ourselves how far we have to go on the likely access agenda,

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we've been doing it at times still a very long way to go.

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This this graph shows you four different indicators of relatively disadvantaged status,

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and the performance of each case proves how well represented that group is

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amongst the few people in the country nationally and even not a school students,

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for example, 93 percent of all 15 year olds say to be.

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Rules in the UK, not massive unions represented at university generally slightly break on a slightly

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shorter than a week off when it comes to the more selective universities,

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the Russell Group, as we speak on behalf of of indicating, which is impacting on the health of our.

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Selective institutions, state school representation is much lower than you would expect if it was simply an.

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Same happens or for working class backgrounds of the disadvantaged category.

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If you think about cutting your participation area,

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which I'll come back to later after my actually very good mention of disadvantaged students, even at the same.

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And also in relation to free school meals that were free school meals, young people have served as well represented in the of universities,

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we would expect if it was really a chance phenomenon in our day to an Oxbridge on recruiting the IS for the possibly gender.

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So a long way to go to widen access. And you might say, well, yeah, but you know, things are getting better.

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So, you know, things are improving steadily, so no cause for alarm.

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But if you look at the trends for the past 20 years, I'd say they are pretty flat and pretty much I've seen improvement.

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For example, these fake school representation classes, specifically in the Summer of Innocence in the 90s,

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late 90s and then a little bit in the past few years.

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I think to produce the latest successes,

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it's been a reversal rate that actually state school percentage in some of the universities is going to reverse and try to continue,

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certainly with these other measures as well. The line is basically flat.

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We don't really see much of an increase in the representation of these relatively

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disadvantaged groups in universities and certainly not in the selective those,

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which is, I think, is it is extremely alarming when you consider that universities spend many billions of pounds on widening access,

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government spends many billions of pounds on widening access. It's been on the policy agenda, really been pushing it for a long, long time.

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It really is something that you'd like you would expect to see more, you know, and it's really it really is a problem and.

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So why since you spend so much money trying to win access and it's been such a policy emphasis, so I don't want my country.

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On this issue. Well, I think the the key barrier here is prime time the right,

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just the fact that people from disadvantaged backgrounds are much less likely by virtue of their relative

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disadvantage to get to the very high price that we ask for at universities like this one and like on my own.

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So let me show you how this looks and if we start by thinking about all 15 year olds in English schools,

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this is data from the American People database.

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So we say what proportion of all young people are in receipt of free school meals when they're 15 years old?

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And the answer is not 12 percent of those in an English school.

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About 78 percent are in state schools, but not in free school meals.

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Some of them will be disadvantaged or not.

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It's a small percentage of people who were in state school, so we don't know whether they receive free school meals or not.

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And then about seven percent go to be paid private schools.

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So that's what the starting population looks like.

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If we then say, Okay, what about the people who are in the top two decisions on the table that GCSE?

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We see the percentage of free school meals, say school kids and more than half their representation in the house.

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So they're not achieving well at GCSE. It's OK to go on to A-levels with equivalent qualifications,

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though it is the slightly higher portions than we would expect given their representation in the high achievers at.

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But then at key stage five A-level and equivalent free school meals,

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students are again doing doing less well at this level for just the amount of

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sweets and young people who are in the top two disciplines increasing by the time.

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And you see that the representation of privately educated increases in the category is very large.

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These schools are doing very well amongst these students and getting them very high A-level equivalent qualifications.

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Regional markets continue to higher education in the same proportion as they continue to say five.

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Bush is likely to be in the Russell Group Universities University.

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Interestingly, there's a big overrepresentation of privately educated individuals at university.

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Well, see it certainly to their high proportion of 15 year olds or even relative to their portion of high status.

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It's it's another kind of like factor choosing. These social inequalities in prior attainment, all the biggest barriers to having more,

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just like people at high, highly selective universities like Oxford is obvious,

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as it not is, that is the key barrier,

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and we have to put it slightly differently and show you what each of these different categories look like when we look at that.

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Time the distribution. And so we called for most of the people who went to state school.

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We were coming to a free school, meals at age 50.

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Then we were respectable but no free school meals recipients and then those who were in private school.

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People who are on free school meals are from state schools, most of them, they're happy.

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He says foreign corporations whatsoever and.

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If you say the Russell Group takes about.

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Six percent of the 15 year olds in the population by the time they come to the university age are six percent of them go to university.

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Then we're going to have to think differently about academic entry requirements if we're

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going to have proportional representation of these three different social categories clearly,

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aren't we? So if you don't, it, for example, the top six, the study of achievers basically tied to a private school, I'm more than that.

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More than six percent of those are on PCH or Jason.

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So if, say, trying to you, too,

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so you can take the top six percent of those who were privately educated and not actually be half of those

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who've got that very high level of things to have as an equal representation of those from state schools,

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to the extent everybody promises high school, you didn't have a free school meals who was in the top.

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This on PC from the.

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And to have proportional representation of, say, school kids who were on free school meals, you'd have to go down to the auditorium to the seventh.

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From time to time to have those that we a proportionally represented in line with better representation of 15 year olds is so mathematically,

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what I'm saying to you is you cannot lie in anticipation of a university like this

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because you're not asking everybody to be topless on all or even higher achievers.

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It's just not going to happen, right? You just you have to be have to produce entry requirements for less advantaged shows.

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So all of these are potentially submissions involving reduced entry requirements for disadvantage when this is necessary for wider access.

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But I also want to ask you that it's necessary for fair access.

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So it's not just a pragmatic thing that we need to do because mathematically there's no way of achieving it.

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I'm actually going to try to persuade you if you're not already decided, it's a it's a fair way to do things as well.

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And they used to way of thinking about the fairness or otherwise of reducing entry requirements for disadvantaged children,

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and this is to think about the fairness claims that are made for the system as it is the way to do things now.

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Not all the claims made to say that this is a best. And.

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Suppose the first thing to say about the way we do things currently,

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the way we select for the most prestigious universities is that we operate on the assumption that there is a quality of opportunity,

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at least formally, at least in theory. Do you have social background?

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There are. There's no formal exclusion of particular social groups.

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Women are allowed to come to Oxford these days. Whether you're rich or poor, you come to Oxford University.

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There are no formal barriers. Entry is the same chance I've ever received.

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Any hope chooses. Is it is it is the basically the assumption, you know, to tell you that the system is that.

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But you do need to meet some criteria, right? And so it's a meritocratic system of.

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And the idea is that you can anyone can come here provided that they've got the high rates that are required or at least requested of you.

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And the idea is that this is FedEx places at Oxford, U.S., Cambridge, Durham, et cetera.

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And Ofeibea, is it because it goes to the people who deserve it,

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most people who are most highly qualified and most deserving of these places and the best place to benefit from the.

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And the idea is that it's a just system, because the procedures, the same procedural justice issues, fairness everybody.

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If there were some flour, everybody is measured using the same type measure and everyone has to be at least this tool.

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Comes this institution.

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Of course, the assumption is that they somehow this all growing in equally mutually nutrient rich celebs are being water daily,

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regardless of which they're in. Well,

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contextualise emissions does is I think it's it's honest about the fact that we don't actually have

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equality of opportunity in practise rules makes a distinction between formal equality of opportunity,

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which is what we do have in principle. Sort of cheesy and genuinely fair equality of opportunity, which is equality of opportunity that.

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Has things put in place to compensate for unfair influences on?

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So to see opportunity would require us to recognise that not only some flowers

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grow in the kind of nutrient nutrient rich soil and also translate into everyday,

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but that socioeconomic economic disadvantage plays a key role in affecting ready

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to go in terms of their education department and their educational achievements.

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And that we would be very reminiscent of plan is to assume that the uneven

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distribution of times has nothing to do with the conditions in which people grew up.

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So if you take many submissions, recognises that it's just that it's false to say that there's a placebo true to it also tries to do

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something about it by saying that we should think contextually about the achievements that people do have,

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rather than assuming that I don't have the grades on a neutral, objective, unbiased.

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The dangerous companies ability.

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So what's contextualise emissions does is it selects potential rather than demonstrating from memory, as indicated by what we've achieved so far.

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It takes a calibrated approach to thinking about some, so it doesn't actually promote the idea of marriage out completely.

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It doesn't say any move to go to Oxford University, regardless of any higher educational attainment or achievement or experience.

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Some somani for and access to university. That's not what I'm doing here.

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I'm saying that climate change really is is still the impact of what we need to calibrate the meeting at that point of time.

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Circumstances and what we're talking about.

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So when I say to that sliding doors saying, you know, if you want it proportional representation for all free school meal kits,

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then you would have to go quite some way down the entire distribution until you found the top six percent performing free school meals.

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Kids who are getting key five results are in the seventh decile, obviously payment distribution, which is an amazing achievement given the Southern.

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That those young people who've grown up in ambiguity cases. It's a rather than procedural justice treating everyone the same.

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And so that's what makes these facts. We're talking about distributive justice, at least in relation to groups that we contextualised wishes,

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treats people differently in order to to level the playing field to rectify.

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Inequities prior to the point of consideration for admission.

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So this is not a new idea by any means, is it, you know, this has been something that for at least 15 years has been in foreign policy circles.

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We've been thinking about this and recognising the truth of the statement that

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examination brains do not mean the same thing regardless of who's watching the show.

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It's written 50 years ago, said this equal rights to rehabilitation, and it's fair.

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It's appropriate that we should think about contextual factors when we're trying

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to understand what some of these claims actually mean in terms of attention.

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And, of course, the Office of Fair Access for the Office for Students periodically referred to this this.

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Idea, but slightly further afield,

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the Commission on Widening Access in Scotland in 2016 reiterated this idea that somebody who

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achieved good grades in a really difficult environment is likely to be politically motivated,

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particularly bright, particularly primed to accept a university like this.

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I just want you to come sideways. This is a tangent for a moment, for me,

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it because one of the things to be aware of is that this idea that contextualise the

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disadvantage of individuals who do well in education are likely to be especially bright and

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especially motivated has led the contextualised admissions debate down a bit of a group that

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is some of the most exciting time to be linked up with empirical evidence that should be.

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This is that if you admit, thanks to a private school, kids to university,

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the students say grades state school kids tend to outperform at the kind of school kids and school data nationally to specific universities.

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The this evidence to suggest this the Bristol, for example.

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And so often it's been argued that, OK, we should reduce entry requirements for space for kids because we know that that they'll actually do,

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as well as the educated kids who've to be because of great science requirements.

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Good for a long time recognises the site school is a great place.

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School population is massive. It's like more than 90 percent of young people.

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Some of them are very talented and some of them are middling and some of them are very disadvantaged.

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If we look at the last state school kids show, but we look at the subsection states for kids who are the most deprived those on free school meals.

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How we look at how they did it compared to that kind of education, as if comments were also pretty close to the same grades.

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We see that free school markets actually do as well. So we want to show you this.

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This shows you this is a model that controls the S3 up rates on entry to university specific universities.

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You went to a little school for the degree subject matter that you studied and given that you entered university 100.

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What were the rates at which you continued through the programme?

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We thought it was you were in this sort of signal to continue to go out the other end of the first or to more.

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And what we see is the yes, state school kids are more likely to graduate with a good degree than privately educated kids,

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with the same rates on entry for free school meals, state school kids or not.

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And that's likely to come out with the first or two or even when they got the same grades on entry as an accomplished piece.

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That's something that we need to be mindful of, other things that have to be introduced that reminds us.

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One is that we can't assume that disadvantaged individuals are going to flourish

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on that puts their own state when you come to you in a state like this. Quite possibly.

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They're going to need some help, some support in various ways yourself from acting.

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We can't assume that after the doors jump to what is going on.

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Oh yeah. So the amazing thing is that we can't just look to outcomes.

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Studies have to determine whether we should let people live because if we did, we'd say, actually,

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we should ask pre-school kids for higher grades than try to educate people because because

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they're going to need them and will just have the same thing because for too long.

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If the logic doesn't work, steering clearly.

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If you come back to the school system, commissioner, why the access to I think you ahead of the game in the Scottish,

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this is ahead of when the journey was one of the things that the commission when the access noted in Scotland and it's true in the UK,

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who generally is that we are asking for rather more and is really needed to do well on a degree programme at this university,

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at my university, in Oxford University. And those are the things that suggest that that that over time we've actually

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been asking students for more the higher grades than we did 10 years previously,

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not because of great inflation, not because it's harder to do a degree Oxford than it was 10 years ago.

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I mean, it is. You may correct me in the discussion house, but I don't think it is that it's harder to get a degree.

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I think what's happened is the number of 18 year olds has been going to demand 16 points for degree programmes.

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So it brings the price either the sticker price with my own degree programme, we raised it my grades because there were loads of applicants.

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So we could do that or maybe not the sticker price, but the effective price of entry has been very low over time,

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certainly exceeding what is needed to do well at the university.

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So in Scotland, it was proposed and the government is running with it and Scottish universities,

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which French universities have been tasked with identifying minimum entry requirements.

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What do people need to succeed on the degree programme?

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It's going to be lower than the market, right?

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Be as ambitious as possible in determining what the full price is that we never mentioned climate and ask disadvantaged students for that money.

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And this is Scottish Government policy. We do well to follow their lead.

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So it still still leaves us with quite a difficult issue of figuring out how much, how well qualified you need to be in order to succeed.

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We need to try and grapple with the idea how do we know when someone's educated enough that they're going to be fine?

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It's going to be fine.

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Well, we can begin to answer this question with data, but there will be some normative elements of the decision that we make as well.

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And some states are always is open to interpretation, but I've been by the data and the interpretation of it.

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You may disagree and. Typekit talks about that in the discussion.

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This is some data that looks at the we are looking at Russell Group universities, people who until recently.

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The states do a three year, full time degree programme. And it's asking how was the relationship between the best three A-levels,

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but that hasn't happened in Chile and various indicators of success that degree now.

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Best three items, because although many people have four five six seven eight nine 10 animals, offers are normally expressed in terms of three.

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You'll notice that I guess it was trivial, and that's because this dataset is for people, just people ICE was introduced.

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You know, it's old data so that we can follow them to completion and see how did they complete, how did they go?

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It needs to be updated with the stuff. But basically, racecar people are going to be speaking.

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It would have been resolved based on the existing. So he has some time to look at this, it's probably, you know, what do you see?

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Do you see that if we think about success, an indicator of success,

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a degree that will be being able to get through the first year and go on to the second year of your programme,

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that might be a minimal definition of success. What is the definition of success?

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No less than receivers, actually a very shallow correlation between.

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The probability of successful outcome and great solution.

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We can then say, okay, they the chances that you will stop a degree programme and you'll get through,

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you volunteer to get through year two on Tier three.

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These are not conditional on Trump previously. This is given that you started school.

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And again, what you see is that there's quite a limited relationship between the two things across much of the high traits

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distribution only being starts to decline significantly with the success rate once you get lower than Triple C.

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So that makes me proud, as you can see, you get through I and actually get out the degree of these,

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you know, get out of here alive with a degree and then this is quite a shock.

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It's maybe shallow. I guess my point is that it's customer relationship that we might have imagined

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it will be different than two previous iterations of the different subject, so there will be a need to explore the dates of these specific contexts.

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But this is the broadly the case. The result of universities that getting a degree is not very strongly correlated to kind of what is meant.

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It is a bit, but not as strongly as we might. So you can easily call the BBC and have a 95 per percent chance of structuring it with a degree.

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You don't need to find stuff to be very likely to get a degree.

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So the last one I want to show you is a bit of a different maximiser, so into the brain.

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This is getting all the way through the three years green and coming out with a good degree of hostility.

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And there the relationship is much, much stronger, which I'm going to suggest to you two things.

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First, I'm going to say that if you're going to be sitting still on so and coming out with the first or two on,

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and that to me says that people with babies are not destined to fail.

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Some of them, some of them will succeed. Some of them, whether they succeed later,

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is not purely to do with whether they're adequately trying to get something to do with how well

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we support them in the fall and help them to do the things that we want them to learn and this.

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Substantially as well about how financially secure they are on the race and to they have to work 20 hours away just to secure their.

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What this says to me is that, yes, there is a strong relationship between the outcome of military calculation in the range of criminal law,

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even with what we would considered pretty mediocre at the still a family constitution.

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So that gives us hope, at least try to definitely say he walked by.

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To get ahead of themselves, and he was one of the things that I wanted to flag up to you as ways that we could.

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Do alcohol as universities and as a sector to make sure that those who clearly could benefit from a degree

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of he's actually given the full opportunity to make that happen and talk about things like learning support.

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I would not argue with anybody who wanted to say that if he admits to, this would be BS and CS like it affects me subject knowledge.

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Yes, they are. I absolutely agree with that.

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And I would also agree that they're going to potentially some of them at least will have gaps in academic skills.

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I mean, what are you have to all be advocates in an exciting way in face to face discussion.

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I'm saying that we could teach them to do that and not, I guess, as well as the NIH programme, just to the foundation in its various universities,

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answering doing through some schools, creating programmes, filling those gaps, building the schools and supporting facilities.

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How should we think about supporting our students and for the whole industry, for these things?

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And I mentioned a moment ago some of the financial support elements, something that also, I believe, offers very, very generously more generously.

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I guess that would be possible outside of this university.

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But it's this important part of the puzzle, as it's been found in all, are we we don't need to.

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Be confident that we're doing what we can to support disadvantaged students to be free of the dissident

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material disadvantages that they have while society so able to actually study full time already working,

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able to engage in their studies without worrying about whether they're going to pay, how they're going to pay for next time.

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So I mean, clearly making somebody who is very keen to provide these kinds of supports to students to bridge these knowledge gaps,

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to build a capital city schools so that some of the students with lower than typical proximity

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to the race are going to be ready to hit the ground running when they start to a degree.

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This is not true everywhere there is. This is not this is not the nature's attitude is not the attitude of most universities in my experience.

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I'm going to just point to some data for learning from some research we did in Scotland

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when we went to all of the universities in Scotland except the Open University.

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The other 18 we went to and we talked to admissions handsome solutions.

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This is about principle of fairness and practises and processes of.

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And what we call the very.

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Most universities either consider themselves to be worth striving to be in at least some areas that provision excellent universities,

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world class universities.

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This is what's priced right to say that you are excellent, a world class, and this is very narrowly framed as you were an excellent university,

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a world class university because no one knew how you select your students.

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And number two, you would agree that research and no one ever really talks about reinventing the teaching.

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All fields lead to evidence that we really made a difference to the number of students there,

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but nobody ever says that when they're trying to make the case that the department or their institution, is it leading company system systems?

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And what the upshot of this is is that universities are be.

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Resistant to the idea of making students who might need some support because it doesn't, because it's not like some universities.

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So there's a big focus angle on widening access, but only to what we called the heroic disadvantage, right?

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We're. One of my next book. They've got of these students who have had some really cool adversity that they've overcome,

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but they can still do it all hit the ground when they get get on and do well regardless.

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We got a little we. Yeah. But we still want to be able to hold it, but we still believe in this.

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And there's a sense that there wasn't a.

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Much enthusiasm with the idea of taking on blow this week to help to them.

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There was a desire to scream to admit this to my students who were going to be finding out.

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He is much more cautious about meeting students who at this first meeting,

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so he says the two could have performed exceptionally well down the road where they where they support loans.

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But because of all Americans here, the traditional lectures, lots of independent study, they will do what they could do well, but no one's going to.

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All right, so how do you decide to do that, we should take the.

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It would be very remiss me to not tell you how we identify who is actually supposed to commit to what we say.

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If this is it, this is a strategy that's going to continue to widen participation,

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we want to be confident that the metrics that we're using to identify disadvantaged

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individuals actually do identify disadvantaged individuals soon as we can.

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Basically, this means using individual negligence in case are about people as individuals and that are families

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not using promises that are to do with the area they live in or the school that they need to.

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And we want to get to verify the information that people gave us, right, so if someone says I am selling for free school meals,

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we want to be able to verify that through contact with the school or linking up with the national people database records.

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Likewise, if people say I'm on a low income family, we want to see HMRC records to confirm the mistakes.

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But it's not to the individual level, which is why one reason is that if we lose entry level of clinical measures,

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we're going to get some of those negative studies.

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They're going to be lot people who are genuinely too small, at least we deem incorrectly are not disadvantaged.

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However, in the last four days I told Story, which is such a shame because it's the preferred government metric, isn't it?

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But ultimately, I didn't. You listen to work on this.

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Ages ago, I'm just looking at 51 percent.

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So if you don't have people who are in the lowest in this being the two quintiles at the lowest rate of reaching participation,

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and only about a third of those people are for free school meals.

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No, sorry, children, only a third of free school meal kits live in those areas.

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Two thirds of them live elsewhere. So if we say it's going to be called a one to two thirds of the intended beneficiaries, some of you,

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some of the other indicators are between a plastic bag with happy child affirmations, events, the percentage in the school or as they're a bit better.

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But then still far the still excluded what people that we'd like to capture and these free school kids who don't happen to be in, it's always true.

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David Marshall, I personally think, is that the high risk of false positives by using these indicators,

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the false positives where we say someone is disadvantaged and or at the very least, we're not sure whether they are enough or they are.

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So this is. If we use cold weather to decide what the scene should get contextualised for not only one in 10 people selected at random,

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but should be from free school meals, not friends. And you might say, well,

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free school meals from Scotland would the only disadvantaged people or other people who maybe

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incomes are a bit over the threshold to qualify for school meals who are also disadvantaged?

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And I'll say, yeah, I'm sure that is the case, but is that 90 percent of the people who live in these homeless people there is.

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Chun song by using Cola and to a lesser extent, civil society, said in a communications school admission free school meals.

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Chances are that we're going to be picking people who are not disadvantaged from the United States,

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who are in treatment if we're using those increases because basically we're either

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have no effect or actually make things worse than we actually make things worse.

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Right, Typekit messages amounts to screw up. I think it's really untenable to say that it's it's fair to ask everybody for the same.

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Needs to come to the U.S. to. I just don't think we can.

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Maintain the fiction that there's a policy book to speak and the grace that people have been the same thing with respect to the.

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Just it's just you just can't say that it's not really, isn't it?

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I think there's evidence to say that the is actually disadvantaged students on lower grades.

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Without them, we're not setting them up to fail. Even if we just leave the building, they're actually probably going to be fine.

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If we look after them, they're going to do great. And I think universities have a role should have a role in bridging some of these gaps.

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We all institutions have to look. We should be embrace the opportunity to teach and we need.

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I'm teaching you benefit from it.

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And just to finish then to say that the very last consideration, but actually just as important as everything else is,

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it's the right interfaces so that we are actually targeting the intended beneficiaries.

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Vicki, thanks very much indeed.

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A Wide-Ranging practical approach to the search for there's probably something unsettling for some of us in some ways as well.

364
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Thank you very much.

365
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We're going to leave this discussion in a moment, but first, we're going to have to brief responses to further informed questions.

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I'm going to invite your house and comes with Space Needle coverage area to hit the reset for education.

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You actually mostly on the right outcome. Well, let's see.

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I guess we look at something else and you mentioned something about that as being realistic.

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I think essentially it's sort of a good discussion on it.

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And I think it's a number of things I would pick up. First of all,

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it would say very few was about three sets up just to explain and work is focussing in

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particular on young people who have some of the most profound challenges to overcome.

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Application, the algae could come through the system and as a result, often undergo extreme disruption to educational background,

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but also a lot to do with the Navy seal of approval arising from that circumstance of being within families which are abusive on the platform.

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So within that context, it's a good.

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The spirit of the textual submissions as well, which I find really, really important because I say to other people,

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I'm interested in reception of those that have the highest hill to climb.

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I want to make three points that include the territory. And so the first point really is about the question about why islands represent us.

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We have islands have been the gold standard. Give us submissions for as long as the members.

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And yet we have this question, everything about whether they have passed that status.

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When we think about the normative expectations of what an alien curriculum is providing compared to the

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sort of expansive and critical factors is that we want to see somebody undertaking a degree course.

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It seems to me that that's what I said.

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There's a mismatch there between what we are providing to people young people between the ages of 16 and 18 and what we expect of them from 18 to 21.

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What's going on a broad range of ages there?

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The second point is about prudence. This is where they can sort of talk.

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And actually, when you look at what the of great universities have achieved thus far over the last 50 years, I've been researching this area.

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We room for us to talk about.

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And actually what's largely happened is for some reason, the universities have been very successful, approaching students from other US universities.

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It's a moving round the deck chairs rather than ruling out people for which young people are being given.

391
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:37,360
And when you start to look at the amounts of money that is spent on that process,

392
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:44,290
which is largely a marketing exercise rather than for you, I think that that's something which we need to think about.

393
00:48:44,290 --> 00:48:52,360
My third point is about the challenge of if you like to global universities like oxygen and others as well about what

394
00:48:52,360 --> 00:49:01,330
contextualised missions means to us in terms of taking a different group of learners and exposing them to world class teaching.

395
00:49:01,330 --> 00:49:05,950
And actually, I think there's a there's a chance that to actually think about different types of learning.

396
00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:10,210
And so I think even if you like the discourse around either for me is one that

397
00:49:10,210 --> 00:49:17,290
needs a little bit of critical illness on my own experience of teaching. Medical students historically have not come through in aid groups.

398
00:49:17,290 --> 00:49:19,750
They've come through other groups in.

399
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:28,400
So about to confrontation should signal a little bit of discussion as well, which is the question about potentially whether we can mention this,

400
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:36,140
if at all, whether or not we actually have a crude definition of what we mean when we talk about the potential of a young person.

401
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:41,360
Do we have a definition of work to do? We have a firm theoretical basis.

402
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:49,130
We have this idea that we know that potential looks like. But that's still a challenge you to think about whether we have that work through in life,

403
00:49:49,130 --> 00:49:56,330
which means that we can then use that as the basis for making admissions decisions about individuals.

404
00:49:56,330 --> 00:50:06,420
So we'll leave it at that particular option that you feel.

405
00:50:06,420 --> 00:50:15,910
First and second respondents is it's timing, because, as I mentioned earlier on, is it's a cheater and should be straight out of modern college,

406
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:19,650
but also for these folks are perhaps more relevant to the assessment of the college.

407
00:50:19,650 --> 00:50:25,260
So he has the practise practitioners experience. Peter, thank you.

408
00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:33,870
Thank you, Professor Butler, I could just say I agree to sit down and have something should be told from tonight.

409
00:50:33,870 --> 00:50:43,830
There is a French proverb to the effect that everything worth saying has already been said many times, but since no one listens.

410
00:50:43,830 --> 00:50:50,520
We always need to this again because it would be a thoroughly undesirable if the university

411
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:55,560
came to rely on available examination grades as the main criterion of selection.

412
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,100
The Angel is not designed as a university entrance exam.

413
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:09,740
Marks given a all six guys to promising university were not, in fact, Professor Bolivar Professor Harrison France in 1965.

414
00:51:09,740 --> 00:51:14,760
This commission of enquiry into the marvellously eliminating inhumane 50 pages of

415
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:20,580
submissions in the 1960s in libraries responsible Typekit single of the parochial

416
00:51:20,580 --> 00:51:28,530
Oxford based points about this shibboleth a mystical gold standard of potential

417
00:51:28,530 --> 00:51:34,320
without which box to guide talks unnecessarily point about historical amnesia,

418
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:39,420
if you will forgive me. This is not been a criterion since time immemorial.

419
00:51:39,420 --> 00:51:48,120
For thought to be a shooter is extremely recent, but Oxford, to be precise, it's exactly 21 years old.

420
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:55,530
It all predecessors, I think, would be horrified by. What does that mean?

421
00:51:55,530 --> 00:52:05,970
Well, today it basically means the top quartile of scripts twenty six point four percent of all eligible if they are above the Top 40,

422
00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:12,300
1965 top quartile A-level scripts meant to be or both.

423
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,420
So if you plan little bits on some of these for the days of flatness,

424
00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:20,880
key variables and a tendency, Bebe will be leaving in an embarrassing six months,

425
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:34,410
don't get the point of the 1965 Oxford Insight seventy three point two percent or three courses achieved below as they No.

426
00:52:34,410 --> 00:52:43,200
Over the 1969 incident, more than a third pretty violent force and the chief below the national average as they are,

427
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,460
of course, many fewer UK students taking service in the 1960s than they do now.

428
00:52:48,460 --> 00:52:51,750
Still, there is nothing unimaginable about an Oxford,

429
00:52:51,750 --> 00:53:00,750
with a third of its undergraduates achieving below the national average available, either it hasn't seen in for ages.

430
00:53:00,750 --> 00:53:05,700
Of course, in 1965, Oxford was no paradise of social inclusivity.

431
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:13,650
That was not even in Professor Bolivar's Terms for Equality of Opportunity for its undergraduates layer by quota.

432
00:53:13,650 --> 00:53:17,820
There were close scholarships for students in schools and so forth.

433
00:53:17,820 --> 00:53:26,280
But Oxford, 50, is yet to not use the air shibboleth as entry criteria, and the result was, shall we say, interesting.

434
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:36,120
In 2018, fifty eight point two per cent of Oxford, UK undergraduate intake came from to maintain the sector fifty eight point two per cent in 2018.

435
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:43,080
This is both on university website. The highest figure since the university began recruiting detailed admissions statistics.

436
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:50,340
You actually in December. Figures from the 1950s and 1960s are very easy to come by.

437
00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:55,140
If I could show you one slice of bread crumbs of certain sizes, professor,

438
00:53:55,140 --> 00:54:06,370
all of a sudden it's the beginning of that showing slow progress on widening access 1997 to 2017 and settled alongside 20 years from 1950 to 1972,

439
00:54:06,370 --> 00:54:12,210
you would see a line that looks like the vast majority 65 admissions around 61 percent,

440
00:54:12,210 --> 00:54:17,490
but not just UK Typekit came to maintain such a higher than state vote for.

441
00:54:17,490 --> 00:54:22,230
The guy was actually a very small sliver of which was selected by retail stores.

442
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:29,380
Similarly, in 1965, around 20 per cent sources he painted as fathers in manual labour in professions the Lord franchise.

443
00:54:29,380 --> 00:54:32,820
This is my five point sixty one percent from the maintained sector,

444
00:54:32,820 --> 00:54:38,430
20 percent for manual labour and backgrounds were fleeing the industry's most serious challenge.

445
00:54:38,430 --> 00:54:42,940
Facing 1960s Oxford, it demanded urgent, concerted action.

446
00:54:42,940 --> 00:54:49,690
Since then, we have very comprehensively failed as fee paying schools have shrunk as a proportion of never.

447
00:54:49,690 --> 00:54:57,930
The tank is grown in absolute terms, as a proportion of citizens like students from disadvantaged backgrounds very dramatically shrunk.

448
00:54:57,930 --> 00:55:03,810
And I think as Professor Border Psychology proved, this pseudo meritocratic,

449
00:55:03,810 --> 00:55:20,900
a chivalrous as little transfer to a very large cost has improved already set lists.

450
00:55:20,900 --> 00:55:24,770
Thank you very much both for those responses. You don't want to leave.

451
00:55:24,770 --> 00:55:27,860
Yes, I'm going to invite you to come back to the stage and join us.

452
00:55:27,860 --> 00:55:32,360
I don't have many of the questions which we're about to take will be directed towards making a difference.

453
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,433
Come up this we to Typekit perspectives and discussion.