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Welcome, everyone. This is the eighth and final seminar in our series on future directions in teacher education,

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research, policy and practise, and I'm delighted to introduce Professor Alice One-Star,

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who is going to talk with us today about building research capacity in teacher education as a sort of tying it all together.

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The seminar series No Pressure, Alex. We've had a series that started last term with our own Cochrane Smith.

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We've talked about some of the issues in teacher education accountability there.

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We've learnt from other colleagues in the US doing work in multiple countries right through to today,

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trying to bring this issue of policy practise and research together, particularly in relation to building research capacity.

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Alice is Professor of philosophy of education and research policy, as well as director of research here in the Department of Education.

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She specialises in studies of research, policy and governance and in philosophy of research,

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including work on research, assessment, impact and knowledge exchange research,

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funding, research, quality evaluation, open knowledge practises, research ethics, capacity,

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publication practises and the cultural value of research in the arts and humanities.

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The strand of work is complemented with a strong interest in teacher education, research,

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innovation in teacher education policy and practise knowledge and values in the teaching profession and the role of research in teacher education.

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Alice has two Ph.D.s, one in policy and governance for research front from here the University of Oxford and one Edith Epistemological and Research.

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So thank you, Alice, and we look forward to hearing from you and then we'll have some questions at the end.

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Thanks very much for the transcription. I am. Welcome to the last one of the field,

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and you'll be pleased to hear that I propose in honour of the end of the spending, not a couple of tweezers for you.

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And as you get to feature with the Royal Mint,

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it's a lot of work to do is to look at some of the one of the challenges around

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teacher education and the relationship between teacher education and research.

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And then to focus on the notion of research capacity or capacity for research and ask a few questions.

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Now what do you mean by capacity boost capacity? What are the kind of models that have been used in different contexts and guided by policy

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policymakers in trying to stimulate growth in research capacity in teacher education?

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And how should we do some reflections based on the work that I have done with

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colleagues recently in Wales and in Norway and try and derive from that experience?

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Maybe a few principles a way forward in relation to capacity building in teacher education.

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That brings me back to my lesson plan. I. If I seem to be digressing enough lot.

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As promised, Elizabeth. So this is a quiz for you.

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And who's this individual? And guesses.

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My husband, this is some gentleman from times long gone.

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Of course I cannot see. And I can see that if you have already guessed who that was.

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So be ready for the next one. Businessman. This was good time.

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That's three of the three. How about this one?

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Nice Thanksgiving. Oh, yes, we've got an expert on just yet.

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He's the ECB that really the Pfizer's correct with being witch hunt for future survey six.

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Pretty good, pretty advanced. Yes.

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And which one? Market for her.

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Not quite. That's probably.

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Who was he? I'm sure, you know, it was also said some very,

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very important review of teacher education in Wales that kind of sits in between

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two reviews by John Thain and thinking back to one of the seminars that we had.

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The fourth and the last one is very, very girl.

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You see who I here for the whole of the series.

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And so I've selected, you know, those those figures and to illustrate the point that you know what counts us as a teacher,

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educator and as somebody who influences teacher education and the relationship with research is actually a very kind of wild notion.

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There are people who crunch data and influence talking to them on international stages.

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There are people who define themselves as teacher educators through the

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practise that they engage with and through the research that being carried out.

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There are visionaries and reformers, you know, sort of different walks of life.

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There are policy makers and there are people involved in accountability systems.

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And that's because education research more widely, but due to an education and teacher education research, more specifically,

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is what Steve Coca-Colas called a go between field,

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where there's an astonishing kind of expectation of monkey conditionality amongst all of those who populated sufficiently.

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And these people are even though you can't police many of them inhabit.

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Aside from schools and other types of organisations in having education departments within higher education institutions.

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So this is the second the last of debate and that's about the size and shape of the field in the UK.

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How many people are in statistical terms? Full person for votes?

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So how many people do you think there are in education departments, associated education departments in the UK?

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We're going to figure. Who gives a thousand years more and more?

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This is a fight about anything.

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Any advice on that? There is a little fight.

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More fuel. OK.

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So 5000 new fuel. That's the theory, but actually, those 9000 people associated with the education course said that,

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according to his home education statistics agency statistics, it's still one of the largest fuels of any description in UK higher education.

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Of that massive field, how many professors do think that? But you here for them.

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What are we talking for hundreds of years?

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They took it fulfilled. So yeah, yeah, four hundred percent of those 400000 August.

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The problem here is how many would you say are BME black and minority ethnic women?

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Well, none is a good guess for.

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So that tells us something about the field.

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The 9000 people are quite there's quite a lot of women in that field when he goes down to to to assess those.

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There's a vast difference between who has the professorial profile and who doesn't.

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And then the distribution between men and women changes a bit.

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But if you introduce other characteristics that provide the appearance of diversity in the field becomes changed.

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And that's important to think about in relation to what kinds of capacity building in a field like education and such.

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How many staff in of the 9000 do you think have a doctoral degree?

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What proportion? 650.

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But after about about a third week, it's a much more professionally rooted field than many people have seen.

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How many people of those and asked this one of the 9000?

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There's another code in the statistics agency,

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which which records the numbers of people who say that their main interest they might implement addresses teacher training.

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And there's about 2000 of of those. We've asked how many postgraduate research students.

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Two thousand five thousand. Fewer, fewer than six and a half hours.

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But that includes a lot of students who want to part time degrees and obviously pursue at these educational functions as well.

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How many doctors are wounded in here? And her country.

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A hundred thousand. A few hundred feet.

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Well, it's possible I felt free to myself.

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So there's a lot in the so-called pipeline of early career research, although think about diversity,

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the diversity of those actually completed doctorates is huge and it's not.

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All of them will necessarily come as early career research. Actually, only a portion of them would.

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And finally, how what proportion of the stuff that I mentioned of the whole stuff in the

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whole of the system was submitted to the previous research excellence framework.

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You know, lower prices.

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He's the man in the know about 27 percent.

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So a very, very small proportion,

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if you come to think of the of the size of the field was submitted last time around and that was made up of a very big number of institutions.

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The submission of which was under 15 full time equivalent,

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62 percent of institutions that submitted to the ref had less than 15 full time equivalent staff supplement.

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So it's the kind of shape of the field at the moment.

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This is where our teacher educators in this country conduct their work and live up to their professional lives.

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So the question that comes up every time I look at this statistic is, you know,

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these are the folk, these are the ones who were deemed research active last time.

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So who are those who are not submitted and what proportion of these people actually

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actively involved in teacher education and other forms of professional education?

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We don't really know the exact answer to that question, but might my wild guess would be that there's actually quite a lot of people who

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are to connected to the world of schools and other parts of the education sector,

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but would not necessarily be very subjective last time around.

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And we'll see what happens in the future as well we could find for keeping as they are now across the system.

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I want do it from. And I think the fact that there is this difference between who populate the field

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and does the work in the field and and the a group that is that was the last.

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I mean, the truth is no, that was the last time you saw tactic has partly to do with the fact that education and research

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and a particular teaching education research has attention on character in terms of its aims,

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which are torn between academic and professional aims in terms of its kind of like this technology,

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its organisation and its perceived status in institutions.

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And some of that ethos of contestation has to do with with conflicting interests and narratives.

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Some of this has to do with conflicting narratives about who should control state funded educational provisions.

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Some of it has to do with contestation around stuff relative places of different areas of enquiry

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within the establishment of higher education and where teacher education is situated within that.

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Some of it has to do with internal fissures within education,

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research and future education research between different intellectual position and professional choices of positions.

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And some of it has to do is the defensive notion of research and practise being separate and lacking

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adequate integration that can then build a move smoothly into coherent professional identities.

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And I would want to pick that one not point apart a bit more.

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This is one of the most pervasive metaphors, I think, in in policy about teacher education and in writing about teacher education research,

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the notion of a gap between education and practise and education and research.

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And if you look across the world at policy documents, you will see evidence of that notion of the gap pretty much everywhere.

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This is kind of random selection, arbitrary selection of different policy documents from different times from from around the world.

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If you dig into them, most of them would make a reference to the tension between the gap between the separation.

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The need to bridge between practise and research and integration seems to be the key

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solution works that is offered in response to that integration between theory and practise.

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But you were as easy as that, and we could just legislate regulate integration, then why are we not commenting?

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OK, so have we not solved this problem yet?

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And I'd suggest to you just for this evening that there's a number of assumptions underpinning the use of that matter.

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For them, policies that are based on trying to bridge the gap between research and practise, which are very,

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very problematic assumptions and what assumptions like illustrated by that picture

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is the one about the hot realm of practise versus the kind of code types of theory.

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So the idea that theory and practise are conceptual and also logically distinct, completely separate.

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All practise is not theoretical. All theory is non experiential, not practical.

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But if you're going to dig a bit deeper into accounts of human rationality and human action and flourishing,

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I think that is quite easy and of taken apart as a as a as a policy.

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The second assumption that's a good one can trace to all of those policy government is the one that assumes isn't the kind of graphic metaphor.

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It assumes that practise and theory are institutionally bounded to particular settings.

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The practise is bounded to schools or other educational establishments and COVID-19 to the university,

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and that there's a little boundary crossing that needs to be stimulated that by, for example,

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investing in practitioner researchers who are able to move between the two settings.

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And again, I think a metaphor like that is divisive. It does not capture the complexity of of of what's going on in both schools and universities.

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And I'd say that it's problematic from both the research and the practise

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perspective because the research is at the same time elevated and historically,

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you know, to the heights of the highest forms of learning. But at the same time, it's impoverished educationally.

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Yes, it's something really important sticking to the. It's taken away from education, health research.

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And the same applies to practise. This practise is in some ways related because it's kind of closer to reality based on a kind of pedestal.

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But at the same time, it's restricted to something that often in some of the police documents,

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amounts to a kind of situation that embodied labour within external agendas.

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So I'd say that's an institutional fallacy and that the third one of the firemen on the island to challenge is this notion

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that researching for theory and educational activity feature in whatever form of education activity equals practise.

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Because that means you think that they separate like then.

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I think these two kind of linear linear takes on on application form and translation of funding from research into practise.

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So the notion of Evidence-Based practise often relies on this kind of assumptions, and I think there's value in that as well.

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But that's a different conversation.

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And this assumption rests on the notion that teaching and research are different in the future is that they have an education,

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both epistemological and pedagogical. And I think that the kind of cultural and political to do some fancy in underpinning that government for.

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So with a collection of complicated lives, I'm trying to say that my argument would be that in order to get, we need to move beyond that matter.

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What do you think about what, how we want to develop research and research a future education they need to move beyond?

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Oh, how do we bridge the gap between teaching, between research and practise?

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And one way of moving beyond might be to think about health research and education as being forms of positive practise,

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so they actually need they come together in certain core attributes which are shared and such as implicit thinking and language,

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reflective use of tools and consider it exercise of virtues.

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But both of those three of these apply to both walk, we might say, as research and what we might do because if you want to be practised.

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So I will not develop that. So there's ways in which I could explain each of those things,

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but I won't develop this argument enough because I think for the purposes of thinking of across the building in education,

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simply saying that we there are conceptual ways of moving beyond the metaphor of the gap is enough.

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So moving now into the veto of the off the topic, because the leakage capacity in teacher education,

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we've had a glut of reviews because I was trying to find a few of them on top of this.

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Oh God, we've had a lot of reviews of teacher education with a view to reform in different countries, and this is just in that in the UK.

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So we're not lacking confidence.

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A lot of those reviews seem to suggest that there is a need to extend, to build, to nurture, to sustain capacity for research and teacher education.

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And the question is, how do we do that?

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But I would want to test and I can say, no, what do we mean by capacity and whose capacity are we talking about?

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Often what we talk about is the capacity of teacher educators situated within universities to conduct

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and evaluate critically research and the capacity of teachers and of other important stakeholders,

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including policymakers, to understand, critically evaluate and use research.

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That's the kind of definition that underpins a lot of the tools to develop capacity in teacher education.

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But you know, that list that actually includes an awful lot of other people as well.

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And sometimes controversially, I like to include teacher educators in schools and, you know, sitting on that list,

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as well as to not to restrict the notion of teacher educator to one particular setting, either the school or the university.

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And what capacity? So, yes, individual capabilities are important to act professionally and to support our business to track professional, yes.

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And when you think about capacity in that sense, in terms of expertise, having the right kind of expertise,

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having the motivation to act in the light of expertise and the opportunities to do so.

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But it's not only an individual level that matters when you think about investing in capacity building,

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it's also the organisation of global resources human and because of the kind, the culture,

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the infrastructure, the structures which would support professional activity.

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And there's also the systemic and organisational levels of the resources and the infrastructures that

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are required at the national and international level in order to sustain that sort of activity.

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So thinking that we would somehow sort out the individual capacity scope of capabilities of those inhabiting education departments,

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and that would be the full answer to the so-called capacity problem in teacher education for research,

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that is a very kind of limiting way of thinking about it. And they will expand on this.

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I'm. But for now, just a draw to kind of lungs has capacity building different from cultivating individual skills and knowledge.

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I think I've just explained some of that.

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And growing organisational so-called critical mass of researchers or research partners with individual aspects of it.

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I think I've just explained that historically we focussed on upskilling people methodologically

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and giving them knowledge about research and enabling users giving them literacy.

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So developing their capacity to understand and perhaps use of time research.

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Even at the individual level, I think it's probably becoming transparent already kind of thinking about what I'm saying,

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but in terms of what practise and research have in common as far as practises, that's not quite enough in terms of describing engagement in research.

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How about at the organisational level? This notion of critical mass has been extremely popular, even though it's been,

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I think, a moment in time, but it's kind of coming back into fashion as an expression.

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And usually that is defined as having co-signing a sufficient number of staff of teacher educators with the right research expertise.

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And that would give you the critical mass to be able to kind of have a voice in the in the field of research.

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That for me, reducing that to a number is probably the most limiting thing you can possibly do to the notion of capacity, and I'll come back to that.

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This is, I think, sprouted a variety of variations, one of which is the notion of research power.

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I'm familiar with that notion.

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Thankfully not, so that is an artefact of the ref, someone two times higher than the tables, right after that, after the ref.

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They calculate something called research from the size of the submission of a department said to come and has that kind of stuff that they make.

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It comes by a formula that builds on the quality profile that they have.

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So the formula is not one that can be, you know, proportional force that you sense proportions of other professional proportion, which means that,

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you know, in the end, a department that has the most people, if there's enough of a difference in size, will come first regardless.

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Just because of the way it's calculated. Some have condemned that to the notion of that, it doesn't matter quite as much,

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but that the volume what really matters is the proportion of people who are engaged in research being in an institution.

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But all of these numbers. So my my great.

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There's a lot of kind of transfer of of those numbers into redefining expectations and accountability processes for future education.

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But I'd like to look kind of beyond numbers, you know, is there anything else you know,

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aside from the total staff with the kind of expertise in one area of, say,

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subject pedagogy in an institution that makes a difference in terms of capacity and probably the social and intellectual organisation,

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of course, of education of research activity in that organisation does make a difference.

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And these are potential descriptors that have with colleagues and we have harvested from

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the literature and attempts to recontextualize the notion of casting critical mass.

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And they are very different from, you know, research poems, research intensive care and all of those and the number of people with a doctorate

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of the kind of being more crude indicated that I was talking about earlier.

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And there's a lot more qualitative as well. So there's still publications and production generation of knowledge.

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But that is why in terms of the flow that is commensurate with the resources and the the groups of staff within the institution,

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there's there's something about funding that it's more about equity than about the

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volume of funding that the particular the grant value of a particular moment in time.

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There's something about collaborations,

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but that is actually lifted to more important kind of position in relation to what kinds of capacity about the density of collaborators,

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not internally around a coherent agenda. It's also about how central an institution organisation is seen in Netflix beyond itself.

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And it's also about pedagogical continuity in early career development and doctoral education,

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and about the balance between continuity intellectually, professionally and of sticking to the tradition.

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And this continuity having the agency to critique, to change, to, to challenge.

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So that's a very different kind of language from the from the previous figures that I showed.

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So what kind of language has informed the various over the years, the various attempts in the UK to build capacity, to be infected,

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to create public investment streams for capacity building in teacher education in particular and run really quickly through

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what I think are some of the most emblematic or some really powerful examples of investments in capacity building in the UK,

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starting with the largest ever investment in the country,

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which is the research which shows that teaching and learning research programming investment by the SABC to the tune of about 50 million,

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and he was extended before 2009 for a couple of years as well.

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But that was the kind of core funding for it. This has, at its heart, a very explicit commitment to building capacity in future education.

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The reasons for creating the T.A.R.P. in the first place had a lot to do with the perceived urgent need to build capacity for research.

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So it included a research capacity building network, which was formally funded for a number of years and also if you a teacher education group,

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the reading of which was specifically to develop capacity for research and teaching and teacher education.

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And then they delivered all sorts of things,

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including having a requirement for some capacity building to be built in every single project that is funded from that stream of funding.

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So a lot of future investment here is the investment for more training workshops,

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examination, online training resources, a virtual research Obamacare.

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Lots of of all those things were created as a result of those requirements.

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After the comedian of the year, Larry,

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they're also kind of coming together of different stakeholders in the form of something called the Strategic Forum for Research and Education,

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which was again funded by the U.S. on time being out by the Department of what would they then the Department

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for Families and what they were doing and what they're trying to do was to have four yearly fora to look very,

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very closely with all of the stakeholders. In all, four countries of the U.K. had key issues identified in relation to education research

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and capacity was one of the first and kind of most dominant strands of that work,

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Force said. There are other investments we just want to scale, but we got a different kind of implications from the very big system, right?

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So this was a regional investment for the Future Research Network, which was funded to support capacity building in the north of England.

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I believe with the northwest through informal professional learning in multi-institutional groups

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who are supported and encouraged to then move on and do collaborative bidding for research funding.

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So a very different model from the levels of capacity building.

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Astonished by the larger investment fellowships, there are different forms of mentoring in a one to one 122 mentoring and support.

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Scotland also made a big investment in the kind of 2000 in capacity building, for instance, and that was now the traditional research scheme,

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which invested about two million in kind of formal interventions through distance learning modules,

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but also mentoring, peer coaching and other forms of investment in Wales.

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And there was an earlier investment in the Welsh Education and Research Network,

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which funded bursaries and mentorship, as well as collaborative fellowships.

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And this was followed in the more recent years by larger scale investment in research education,

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which is a big initiative for developing capacity building that Ian and Ann and James

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and Nigel from the department and myself were involved be as the evaluation team.

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So I'll referred to that evaluation to. But this particular investment covered pretty much every initiative that I could foresee

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for intervention that you can possibly think of in terms of capacity building at,

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particularly the individual. Some of the organisational level has worked.

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And then there were some investments in Northern Ireland to kind of stepping back from that.

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The structure that there's different types,

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different models of what capacity building is taking us as mean individual organisational and more systemic level.

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So there's a formal model, which seems to me to have kind of three options to it.

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From what I've seen so far in these initiatives and in other countries, it's either through recruitment.

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So you build the capacity of an organisation by going outside to the pool of that organisation and bringing in new expertise, new skills and so forth.

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And some systems, including the Norwegian system.

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Some states, I think, encourage this explicitly as a practise there draught professional learning models,

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some of which are qualifications and research training.

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So formal courses, some of including degree level and postgraduate courses and doctorates,

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and some of which are more oriented towards CPD meant to support views and engagement with research.

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And then there's the funding based model of commissioning models.

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For example, I believe that it's those one as an example. You know,

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one hub is funded and then kind of funds out of grants to a variety of other organisations

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within certain parameters to create a more distributed kind of network of research activity.

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These are, you know, fairly formal in how they're set up, organise and run.

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There's then someone known for models of lots of which strong the notion of communities of practise or on kind of wider notions of social practise.

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And I think I classify it kind of do of teaching quality teaching.

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And as you know, a lot of them have less formal models rather than the formal ones because it involves,

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I think, more mutual kind of shared ownership between the different parties approach.

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And then there's more informal ones which have to do with peer networks, many of which are very, very lively at the moment.

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There are a lot of grassroots kind of professional networks that have now reached sufficient

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maturity to begin thinking about engagement with research and those forms of digital engagement,

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including social media and so forth. And maybe something I'm yet to develop that as I watch this space kind of thing,

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something that might be on the notion I introduced earlier on situated, inquisitive practises.

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So formal, known for what you call whatever,

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a variety of models still at the heart of many of those models is an emphasis on methodological capacity rather than any other aspect of research.

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And that emphasis on methodological expertise, methodological capacity is not convergence.

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It doesn't really take into account fully the diversity of forms of research that may make the contribution to teacher education.

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And let me substantiate this point. OK before I move on.

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So I've created a crude diagram here on the horizontal axis is policy conscious of a particular

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design or methodology that is common in education research and on the vertical axis.

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And I'm kind of plotting the extent to which expertise in the use of gas methodology is distributed across the system of teacher education.

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Right. So that's how widely feature education, but you do education, community and course.

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That's that's that's expertise and that is policy purchase.

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So if we think about a design of a methodology that has high quality approaches and there's

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quite widespread understanding and skills of it in future education community in the UK,

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what might that look like? I'm waiting for an example.

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Something that lots of us, you know, we're comfortable with and policymakers are not going to kind of throw their hands up in often for.

318
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So they think that's a really, really good example. One more.

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But he tried it before, so I felt that something in such case study research,

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some research involving not just on the qualitative interviews and focus groups.

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They seemed to be the skills for them seemed to be more widely spread.

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And there seems to be kind of policy acceptance of the of the value of that research.

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How about areas of more concentrated skillsets but still quite high quality purchase?

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So advanced country techniques,

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experimental research on city research on a more restricted to a certain segment of the population of future educators,

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but still quite quite high as a priority in terms of what is seen as valid solid policy evidence in terms of wide spread.

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But perhaps lower quality purchase eye for things like action research, pedagogical research, positive practitioners.

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There's this huge professional approaches here, and there's a huge understanding of the value that these forms of research offer, but I'm yet to see.

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I have to say I've yet to see a policy document which draws entirely and very strongly from action films and qualitative practitioner research,

330
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and I'm hopefully I'm beginning to substantiate what I was suggesting earlier that actually,

331
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there's a bit of a world of analogy going on there in the emphasis on building capacity methodologically.

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Give me an example of that one. So not concentrated skills and low quality purchase.

333
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Well, if you're a doctoral student in transition from acting like I did in one of my doctorate and then this is a very kind of specific kind of skill,

334
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so to speak, it requires an awful lot of time to actually refine that particular skill set.

335
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But again,

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I'm not sure that there is an awful lot of policy reports that I've come across which draw this discourse analysis and assessment graphic studies.

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So my suggestion is actually, we need an awful lot still to do in terms of recognising the contribution of the full spectrum of educational research

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on future education research so that the interventions that we evaluated in Wales colleagues might disagree with me.

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But I would suggest that this is possibly where the policy focus for that investment was in

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developing those cohort studies that have strong data infrastructure for them that use our CRC UK

341
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environment with their investment in in a quantitative strand advanced one strand for funding for

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teens and early career researchers to emphasise this area here again with high quality approaches.

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The large scale investment that very traditional Endowment Foundation is making into intervention

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research and Aristides again kind of falls into this into this area that comes close at first.

345
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Closely focussed, though,

346
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that many investment in developing capacity in those other areas of research that have been historically some investments in,

347
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for example, both for my areas, for teachers to engage in practise nurse practitioner research and scholarships.

348
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But all of those investments tended to be a lot more, I think, small scale and those kind of mixed outcomes.

349
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The investment in this properties is more internal investment by her education institutions

350
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in sustaining areas of expertise and developing these through perhaps doctoral degrees and.

351
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So the examples which are run through very, very quickly. Wales, it's a small system,

352
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so that's just the figures in terms of the numbers of places for for you should be your injection of the stuff in the education centre in Wales,

353
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their school accredited providers like the government in Wales.

354
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And I think what's really interesting for the purposes of this tool is that the fact that we're experiencing,

355
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as described by point by John in one of the earlier seminars, a system wide reform of first and accountability mechanisms for teaching,

356
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education and research actually features explicitly in those in those efforts to to introduce that reform.

357
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When we went to Westminster to evaluate the intervention of Louisiana Education Commissioner,

358
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I described, we went quite thoroughly through kind of the different aspects of it.

359
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So we went through a lot of in-depth interviews the how much, you know, this is a participant validation a variety of things.

360
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I won't go through the methodological details of what we did, what we did there, but I'm honest.

361
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I'm only saying this now because this is the kind of grounds on which I'm raising what I'm saying about what we're.

362
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And finally, from the Welsh example, this is just a few snippets from a police document,

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which is called the action plan, which usually involves this national mission, the actual plan 2017 21.

364
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And I think if you read through this, you know, it's about enhancing the use of evidence and lead to policy.

365
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It's about building the research base through supporting collaboration and sharing effective practise.

366
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It's about increasing the engagement between universities and schools for research in this profession

367
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and measuring the growth of educational research so that all of very worthwhile kinds of commitments.

368
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When you, when you, when you look at them. But what I suggest that we we do this kind of spend a moment in the light of the kind of things that

369
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I said earlier about the gap between research and practise about diversity in educational research,

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about the relationship between different types of institutions and kind of really begin to question the statements.

371
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Very generous indeed. Statements such as this.

372
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And it is in the nature of, I think, all policy documents that they're trying to do more than one one thing at once.

373
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But I do worry about thinking about the use of evidence in a linear way.

374
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I do worry about measuring the growth of educational research through pure,

375
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simplistic quantitative metrics without thinking more fully about research structures and development of the diversity of education,

376
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research and researchers.

377
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And I do worry about the notions of the gap that might still be lurking there behind the investment into developing a research based approach.

378
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And I have to give the warnings about the context in which I been working for the last few years,

379
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:42,360
which is knowing I know why the system will do the population is not that much bigger,

380
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:49,410
but the system is much larger and the number of institutions is larger now as well if there's going to be institutions.

381
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Bear in mind, you don't need to see the list here, but this is a list of what could be the entire system.

382
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So the ones with the bullet points next to them are the new institutions.

383
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Because the whole country is going through a process of mergers, institutional mergers,

384
00:45:03,150 --> 00:45:08,580
creating from a number of institutions, a smaller number of providers of IP,

385
00:45:08,580 --> 00:45:15,180
both primary and no secondary education, each of which has several different campuses that used to be institutions in their own right.

386
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:20,970
And I think this might ring some bells to some of you about some things that happened in England as well in the past.

387
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Now, with these three, these ones, there are huge changes because they can be very far distances.

388
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Given the geography of Norway between one particular satellite campus and the Central University on another campus of the same university.

389
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Now Norway is undergoing an even vaster and primary and second lowest that can deliver a faster system,

390
00:45:42,510 --> 00:45:47,640
perhaps from a programme of reform, than perhaps what else is at the moment,

391
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because that encompasses everything they done, the structural reform they do, you know,

392
00:45:53,340 --> 00:46:02,610
fully formative qualifications for full entry to Fiji and moving the profession to a Masters level profession.

393
00:46:02,610 --> 00:46:07,530
You can't actually exit with a qualification before you do your masters anymore.

394
00:46:07,530 --> 00:46:11,190
And that's five years and reforming the curriculum,

395
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:16,590
and that's new a new framework for future education at those levels and then reforming the forms of partnership

396
00:46:16,590 --> 00:46:26,480
for greater education and recent features very heavily on all aspects of all elements of that reform.

397
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And so the reason I was in Norway for the last three years is that I was part of this group,

398
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which is an international expert group that was commissioned to work with institutions and with all of the stakeholders,

399
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including policymakers, to develop capacity for research in particular in future education in Norway.

400
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Because this was one of the kind of core and have you seen seen as a difficult aspect of delivering that particular reform?

401
00:46:55,230 --> 00:47:00,720
So we've been going for national conferences every year for regional meetings in between in all parts of the of the country,

402
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:08,290
meeting with all of the providers of teacher education, doing workshops, three quarters of the way we met with all of the policymakers.

403
00:47:08,290 --> 00:47:16,150
This is a country we recognise the need to produce resources, and now we're working on it on a final report and kind of thinking about legacy.

404
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:23,350
So that's the kind of thing would be amazing. The comment that I make in the book about Norway and one of the things that we found,

405
00:47:23,350 --> 00:47:27,940
one of the crucial things that we found about trying to build capacity at system

406
00:47:27,940 --> 00:47:32,770
level in a country like Norway where there is resource and there is policy,

407
00:47:32,770 --> 00:47:45,400
the political will to develop the teaching profession was that top-down interventions we've got of

408
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:53,350
very heavily leaning on institutions and accountability perspectives perspective don't really work.

409
00:47:53,350 --> 00:47:57,980
So we have to rethink our starting points in that process.

410
00:47:57,980 --> 00:48:06,220
Dealing directly with a quality assurance agency in Norway under extremely open to an alternative way of thinking about working these institutions.

411
00:48:06,220 --> 00:48:12,450
And these are the principles that we decided upon and that we worked with for that for the last three years.

412
00:48:12,450 --> 00:48:20,440
So we wanted capacity building to be participatory and collaborative, to be focussed towards empowerment and kind internal autonomy,

413
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:27,310
not towards compliance with external accountability demands to be context specific,

414
00:48:27,310 --> 00:48:32,770
but also in a way that is informed by insights from beyond that particular context.

415
00:48:32,770 --> 00:48:41,050
Interesting insights and talk of ideas to be formed by research on future education and on capacity building in future education,

416
00:48:41,050 --> 00:48:46,510
and to be critical to support the agency of everyone involved in the system.

417
00:48:46,510 --> 00:48:50,980
To have a voice to identify issues including structural issues,

418
00:48:50,980 --> 00:48:59,890
needs points for change and actually begin a process of innovation trying to create these things through.

419
00:48:59,890 --> 00:49:05,890
19 wins. Here's the strategy document that kind of supports this process of reform.

420
00:49:05,890 --> 00:49:13,540
The 2025 strategy But unlike in other parts of the world, when when I last went to Norway a few weeks ago,

421
00:49:13,540 --> 00:49:18,370
we were actually able to have a the Minister for Education that's going to engage

422
00:49:18,370 --> 00:49:26,410
with the piano and the stakeholders in the conference around the strategy.

423
00:49:26,410 --> 00:49:35,410
The document again mentions a number of really valuable things things about the expertise in teacher education departments,

424
00:49:35,410 --> 00:49:43,150
things about, you know, it's important to have more research. It's important to have teacher education as a research based enterprise.

425
00:49:43,150 --> 00:49:48,700
But if you read them again, you're probably even more evidence than the example that I gave earlier that some

426
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:52,300
of the issues that identify as problematic earlier are very much present there,

427
00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:59,770
and they really have to be unpacked and contested. The notion of the gap is there.

428
00:49:59,770 --> 00:50:09,340
And the idea that you address capacity gaps by either increasing the level of qualification of the stuff that you have or recruiting outside.

429
00:50:09,340 --> 00:50:17,680
And there's a there's a strong programme for actually recruiting internationally into navigation situations in the in the in west,

430
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,480
including from other countries.

431
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:26,200
And there is an emphasis on my research, but then that is narrowed down to interventional studies and experimental studies,

432
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:32,080
as the examples are given of the types of research that we need more of.

433
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,890
And then there's this expectation that in order to move on, we become active.

434
00:50:35,890 --> 00:50:41,440
Really, what we need is agreement and consent rather than productive generative disagreement,

435
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:49,210
which is one of the principles that we have adopted as a group in Norway. So there's a lot of interest in having that, I guess.

436
00:50:49,210 --> 00:50:55,180
So what have we learnt from working in those conflicts and from those examples?

437
00:50:55,180 --> 00:50:57,520
I learnt a lot about barriers.

438
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:04,540
If you started the discussion about capacity building in any conflicts, we feature educators and you of your own future educators.

439
00:51:04,540 --> 00:51:08,290
This is what is happens happening. So I apologise.

440
00:51:08,290 --> 00:51:14,390
Thank you. And and the values are again at the different levels, at the individual level.

441
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:27,010
We I think we all recognise this. All right. Hands up, if you don't have time and Chris's models of of workloads that increase after restructuring.

442
00:51:27,010 --> 00:51:34,060
And I think in England, we cut some of that as well. Perceived lack of support, lack of support or funding of access to training.

443
00:51:34,060 --> 00:51:38,830
Difficulties in securing stable, not obvious employment,

444
00:51:38,830 --> 00:51:45,850
non casual teaching roles and the right employment conditions that would enable engagement in research.

445
00:51:45,850 --> 00:51:52,720
And these are common to a wide range of sectors contextually and organisationally.

446
00:51:52,720 --> 00:52:00,660
There's the fact that fast change top-down change keeps people extremely busy with trying desperately to comply

447
00:52:00,660 --> 00:52:09,340
with the boxes and kind of does not give them the space to do the real professional work that they to be doing.

448
00:52:09,340 --> 00:52:12,410
This conflicting pressures are generated by restructuring.

449
00:52:12,410 --> 00:52:18,850
There are there's institutional reluctance to invest in teacher education, so the bigger, higher education, the bigger.

450
00:52:18,850 --> 00:52:24,850
The university perhaps doesn't recognise the need to invest in future education and teacher education programmes,

451
00:52:24,850 --> 00:52:29,050
and the financial model applied to them might be a bit more confusing.

452
00:52:29,050 --> 00:52:34,630
And there's insufficient recognition of research as part of the allocation and included,

453
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:40,540
including research that doesn't fund academic type as far as the workload.

454
00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:47,470
On occasion, there's insufficient appreciation of the demands of high quality research so that it's actually included in

455
00:52:47,470 --> 00:52:54,790
the models and issues around teaching and research not being integrated in the same professional culture.

456
00:52:54,790 --> 00:53:01,120
I think these situations and some of the privatisation of contracts that is happening in different contexts might actually increase.

457
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:05,800
That's that kind of sense of distance between the different aspects of the.

458
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,830
And then there's some issues that people have identified,

459
00:53:08,830 --> 00:53:16,390
which are a few related having to do with the imbalance in the distribution of of expertise geographically and institutionally,

460
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:23,410
having to do with the fragmentation of research activities across different types of institutions and groups of staff and modes of research.

461
00:53:23,410 --> 00:53:29,590
We have advanced research skills may be insufficiently spread and which prompts institutions to think, Oh,

462
00:53:29,590 --> 00:53:36,340
I need to just look beyond developing my internal staff into a wider recruitment pool and grades across the

463
00:53:36,340 --> 00:53:46,620
markets and so forth and other kind of forms of pollution of infrastructure that maybe may be missing.

464
00:53:46,620 --> 00:53:53,580
Opportunities are there as well. And I think always a very good example for that, but also probably Wales,

465
00:53:53,580 --> 00:54:02,730
because there's clear political will to engage in a discourse about teacher education that has research as a core component of it.

466
00:54:02,730 --> 00:54:11,280
There is well to discuss and to actually make public investment into developing the teaching profession in teacher education.

467
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,840
Does the investment in developing new research leadership roles?

468
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:25,020
Some institutions have started thinking strategically about what the research of the flagship teacher education programmes do for them.

469
00:54:25,020 --> 00:54:32,880
There's provide for dialogue between high distributions and hydrogen in schools, institutions and schools, and perhaps in many places.

470
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:37,110
We've kind of gone past that situation where there's a sense of defensiveness because

471
00:54:37,110 --> 00:54:41,670
we're not quite sure what each each each of the types of institutions strengths might be.

472
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:50,920
And there's a lot more working together, enough of that for dialogue and so forth.

473
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,180
Well, at the institution, folks, I've talked a lot about the methodological question, all of this,

474
00:54:55,180 --> 00:55:04,390
but I just want to pause for 30 seconds on what might might it mean to develop research capacity of organisation and assistance systems?

475
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:10,330
I think that's probably the least that's not being fully explored so far in those programmes.

476
00:55:10,330 --> 00:55:13,150
And I think that those four things are absolutely crucial.

477
00:55:13,150 --> 00:55:17,770
So it's not just about individual skill is not just about qualifications and recruitment, if it goes.

478
00:55:17,770 --> 00:55:25,060
It's about culture. It's about forms of evaluation, which are formative rather than punitive.

479
00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:30,880
It's about research infrastructure that enables rather than hinders engagement and research.

480
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:38,620
And it's about research quality that is itself informed by my research about constituting and about future education and

481
00:55:38,620 --> 00:55:49,810
which which which exposes itself to scrutiny through kind of thing from monitoring through evaluation of of interventions.

482
00:55:49,810 --> 00:55:52,120
And this is the only one that I have here.

483
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:59,620
What might if we have a research culture to develop research culture in this more expansive notion of capacity

484
00:55:59,620 --> 00:56:06,160
building what it might mean an orientation towards enquiry that needs to be cultivated in all types of institutions.

485
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,510
It might mean awareness of the fact that knowledge is transient and contestable,

486
00:56:10,510 --> 00:56:16,870
and that critical enquiry done systematically is important in any form of professional practise.

487
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:23,950
It might mean that research and teaching so together there are embedded in the professional identities across the system.

488
00:56:23,950 --> 00:56:29,770
And it might mean a nexus of collaboration. And in fact, we do know anything that goes against those things.

489
00:56:29,770 --> 00:56:33,940
We need to think about vacancy in the system.

490
00:56:33,940 --> 00:56:42,940
So I think I think that you are kind of a very quick read through the different levels of of thinking about capacity building.

491
00:56:42,940 --> 00:56:48,970
I think if you throw the huge emphasis that there is on capacity building for individuals in universities or for

492
00:56:48,970 --> 00:56:55,060
teacher education educators situated within universities through all sorts of interventions such as coaching,

493
00:56:55,060 --> 00:57:01,510
mentoring, fellowships, writing, support conference funding, do you support the law?

494
00:57:01,510 --> 00:57:09,970
There's also been some emphasis on developing individuals within schools and other educational organisations through giving them access to research,

495
00:57:09,970 --> 00:57:18,100
coconut cocoa producing research, coastal provision with maybe colleagues from higher education institutions,

496
00:57:18,100 --> 00:57:24,250
professional development and maybe ways of supporting people's engagement in research.

497
00:57:24,250 --> 00:57:31,840
There's been some investment in institutional organisational rather than institutional capacity building, particularly in terms of partnerships,

498
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:41,680
some tweaks around working environments and some kind of bespoke activities to support these organisations and investment in research leadership.

499
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,640
But I think it is that at this level, at the national level, system level,

500
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:53,650
the things that need to be put in place have not had the level of investment that is required, and we've we've seen quite a long way from them.

501
00:57:53,650 --> 00:57:59,320
So in terms of research, you formed policy in this field, the regulation in this field,

502
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:04,270
funding arrangements, data, archiving, infrastructure, open access.

503
00:58:04,270 --> 00:58:11,170
All of these things are not yet to the level that they used to be.

504
00:58:11,170 --> 00:58:15,310
So I close with this kind of thinking a step back and thinking about, Okay,

505
00:58:15,310 --> 00:58:22,780
so if we wanted a more principled take on capacity building across all of those levels, where might we start?

506
00:58:22,780 --> 00:58:31,930
So this is kind of my initial proposition for you, and it's really something to kind of feed into into discussions and for us to continue to.

507
00:58:31,930 --> 00:58:38,050
I mean, hopefully we might come back in a few years and see something that's moved on.

508
00:58:38,050 --> 00:58:41,860
But I, I really would like to see is to have at the heart of this,

509
00:58:41,860 --> 00:58:50,170
a much bolder notion of collaborative professional practise, which is research reach for you in a way that is not apologetic.

510
00:58:50,170 --> 00:58:59,020
I like to see a professional culture that can realise its vision whilst removing from the system one of the incentives that would hinder it.

511
00:58:59,020 --> 00:59:07,060
For example, in some of the countries that I've looked at, there's a lot of kind of rhetoric around encouraging collaboration.

512
00:59:07,060 --> 00:59:11,890
But if all of the funding arrangements and the accountability arrangements are competition,

513
00:59:11,890 --> 00:59:23,740
competition based and drive and drive through competition that would completely go against realising that vision is the policy and organisation,

514
00:59:23,740 --> 00:59:28,210
that rhetoric is that we want to support the rounded academic to flourish.

515
00:59:28,210 --> 00:59:34,400
And at the same time, we promote academics through a very narrow set of metrics, counting publications,

516
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:41,440
then the impact factors and whatever the tube, the latter hinders the very valuable principle.

517
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:47,800
There's a vast range of examples like that I could offer from across the system.

518
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:54,390
I would wants to see that there's a continuum of research, but this is not about just why they're doing the initial teacher training.

519
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:57,520
These teachers are exposed to a particular kind of ethos.

520
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:07,330
And then as they move those qualification, that kind of peters out of it needs to kind of be part of the professional identities in a sustainable way.

521
01:00:07,330 --> 01:00:12,730
I would like to see a much more determined stance nationally in different contexts and internationally synthesising

522
01:00:12,730 --> 01:00:21,130
more formative evaluation and internal accountability over punitive external accountability exercises and regimes.

523
01:00:21,130 --> 01:00:29,950
And obviously, I'd have to see this investment in infrastructure and documentation and evaluation of any kind of reform and intervention,

524
01:00:29,950 --> 01:00:34,360
think from the policy level and of the innovations that it stimulates in the current.

525
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:42,940
I don't think we talk about we talk enough about a very creative practise that sometimes in quite complex circumstances is actually happening,

526
01:00:42,940 --> 01:00:54,784
happening on the ground. I think I ran over a bit and I apologise, but thank you very much.