1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:02,102 Good afternoon, everybody. 2 00:00:02,102 --> 00:00:05,071 Let's, come to order, shall we? 3 00:00:05,638 --> 00:00:08,641 Happy Thanksgiving to any Americans in the audience. 4 00:00:09,876 --> 00:00:12,145 I'm your speaker for this afternoon, Michael Ward. 5 00:00:12,145 --> 00:00:15,348 I am an associate member of the Faculty of Theology and Religion here at Oxford. 6 00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:18,852 My special area of scholarly interest is the intersection 7 00:00:18,852 --> 00:00:21,988 of theology with imagination, especially in the writings of C.S. 8 00:00:21,988 --> 00:00:26,526 Lewis, but also somewhat, in Tolkien and Chesterton and others. 9 00:00:27,260 --> 00:00:29,829 And this afternoon I'm speaking under this title, C.S. 10 00:00:29,829 --> 00:00:31,364 Lewis, His Influence on the Lord of the rings. 11 00:00:31,364 --> 00:00:34,367 I hope you all have, a copy of the handout, 12 00:00:35,068 --> 00:00:38,071 which contains a letter from Lewis to Tolkien 13 00:00:38,204 --> 00:00:41,207 and to reviews of Lewis's, 14 00:00:41,241 --> 00:00:43,943 which we will come to you 15 00:00:43,943 --> 00:00:46,046 now, Lewis's influence. 16 00:00:46,046 --> 00:00:49,049 Now, how do I advance this? 17 00:00:49,082 --> 00:00:51,151 Just the spacebar. Okay. No. 18 00:00:55,789 --> 00:00:58,792 Thank you. 19 00:00:59,059 --> 00:01:00,827 Lewis's influence on the Lord of the rings 20 00:01:00,827 --> 00:01:04,798 is, in one sense, very well known for most of this talk. 21 00:01:04,798 --> 00:01:07,801 I suspect I'll be telling you things you already know. 22 00:01:08,802 --> 00:01:12,839 However, although I won't be saying much beyond 23 00:01:13,339 --> 00:01:16,342 what will be familiar to anyone who's read Tolkien's letters, 24 00:01:16,709 --> 00:01:19,846 I hope the following remarks may at least serve as a useful gathering 25 00:01:19,846 --> 00:01:23,383 together of a lot of rather scattered information. 26 00:01:24,451 --> 00:01:26,653 In his correspondence, Tolkien repeatedly 27 00:01:26,653 --> 00:01:29,956 acknowledges a particular role played by Lewis. 28 00:01:29,956 --> 00:01:31,825 Let me give you three examples, he said. 29 00:01:31,825 --> 00:01:35,462 The unpayable debt that I owe to Lewis was not influence 30 00:01:35,462 --> 00:01:38,832 as it is ordinarily understood, but rather that sheer encouragement. 31 00:01:38,832 --> 00:01:41,568 He was for long my only audience. 32 00:01:41,568 --> 00:01:44,904 Only from him did I ever get the idea that my stuff 33 00:01:44,904 --> 00:01:46,973 could be more than a private hobby. 34 00:01:46,973 --> 00:01:50,243 But for his interest and unceasing eagerness for more, 35 00:01:50,243 --> 00:01:53,246 I should have never brought the Lord of the rings to a conclusion. 36 00:01:55,281 --> 00:01:58,284 In another letter, he said, I owe to Lewis's encouragement 37 00:01:58,351 --> 00:02:02,489 the fact that in spite of obstacles, including the 1939 war, 38 00:02:02,856 --> 00:02:05,592 I persevered and eventually finished the Lord of the rings. 39 00:02:05,592 --> 00:02:08,595 He heard all of it bit by bit, read aloud, 40 00:02:09,429 --> 00:02:13,166 and in a third place, Tolkien confesses, I have never had much confidence 41 00:02:13,166 --> 00:02:16,903 in my own work, but for the encouragement of CSL, 42 00:02:16,936 --> 00:02:20,974 I do not think I should ever have completed or offered for publication. 43 00:02:21,474 --> 00:02:24,477 The Lord of the rings. 44 00:02:24,711 --> 00:02:27,547 Now, those words about how he might possibly never have completed 45 00:02:27,547 --> 00:02:30,550 the work shouldn't be taken as some kind of false modesty, 46 00:02:31,284 --> 00:02:33,786 because Tolkien was, as I'm sure you know, 47 00:02:33,786 --> 00:02:36,789 a notorious non finisher. 48 00:02:36,823 --> 00:02:40,093 The Silmarillion and The Lord and The Lost Road are about 49 00:02:40,093 --> 00:02:44,197 two notable examples from a long list we could draw up of projects 50 00:02:44,197 --> 00:02:46,399 that remained incomplete at the time of his death. 51 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,669 Tolkien son Christopher, 52 00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:54,574 published in 1980 a volume entitled Unfinished Tales, 53 00:02:55,475 --> 00:02:58,478 a title that could stand for so much of his father's work, 54 00:02:59,312 --> 00:03:03,516 and if Tolkien had been left to himself, it's not only possible, but highly likely. 55 00:03:03,650 --> 00:03:06,653 I think that the Lord of the rings would have had to be included in that 56 00:03:06,886 --> 00:03:09,822 unfinished category. 57 00:03:09,822 --> 00:03:11,157 But can we say anything 58 00:03:11,157 --> 00:03:14,160 more about Lewis's influence? 59 00:03:14,294 --> 00:03:17,297 Did it go beyond encouragement? 60 00:03:17,664 --> 00:03:21,201 Can it be shown that Lewis influenced the way Tolkien write? 61 00:03:22,035 --> 00:03:25,705 Tolkien wrote not just that he wrote, but how he wrote. 62 00:03:27,307 --> 00:03:28,908 I think it can, and that's 63 00:03:28,908 --> 00:03:32,612 what I'll be focusing on in the second part of this talk. 64 00:03:33,947 --> 00:03:36,883 Lewis's influence on the writing of the Lord of the rings. 65 00:03:36,883 --> 00:03:39,352 But before we come on to that, we ought to say something 66 00:03:39,352 --> 00:03:42,522 first about Lewis's influence on the author of the Lord 67 00:03:42,522 --> 00:03:45,525 of the rings, his personal impact on Tolkien, 68 00:03:45,692 --> 00:03:49,462 because that also inevitably had some kind 69 00:03:49,462 --> 00:03:53,299 of effect downstream on the sort of work that Tolkien would produce. 70 00:03:54,367 --> 00:03:56,402 And there's a third way in which Lewis 71 00:03:56,402 --> 00:04:00,039 influenced the Lord of the rings, namely by affecting its public reception. 72 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,710 So that's what I'll turn to briefly in the final section of my talk. 73 00:04:05,411 --> 00:04:09,115 First, then Lewis's influence on the author. 74 00:04:09,716 --> 00:04:12,452 What personal impacted Lewis have on Tolkien? 75 00:04:12,452 --> 00:04:16,923 The man that affected what changed or conditioned him in ways 76 00:04:16,923 --> 00:04:21,261 that, in turn would go on to affect change or condition? 77 00:04:21,261 --> 00:04:22,862 The Lord of the rings. 78 00:04:22,862 --> 00:04:26,299 The two men knew each other for more than a decade before Tolkien 79 00:04:26,299 --> 00:04:30,603 began writing The New Hobbit, as the Lord of the rings was originally called. 80 00:04:31,771 --> 00:04:35,241 In that period, they became close friends and colleagues, and 81 00:04:36,242 --> 00:04:40,546 I think sheer friendship is one influence that's worth talking about to begin with. 82 00:04:41,748 --> 00:04:44,317 Tolkien, of course, had had other close friends 83 00:04:44,317 --> 00:04:47,320 before he met Lewis in 1926, 84 00:04:47,487 --> 00:04:50,490 and Lewis was not his only friend thereafter. 85 00:04:50,523 --> 00:04:54,794 But they were extremely close during Tolkiens most creative years. 86 00:04:55,261 --> 00:04:58,264 Friendship with Lewis compensates for much. 87 00:04:58,331 --> 00:05:00,767 Tolkien confided to his diary. 88 00:05:00,767 --> 00:05:03,970 Christopher Tolkien speaks of the profound attachment 89 00:05:03,970 --> 00:05:06,306 and intimacy that existed between the two men. 90 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,177 E.L. Edmonds, an Oxford student of the 1930s, remembers. 91 00:05:11,644 --> 00:05:15,315 It was very obvious that Lewis and Tolkien were great friends. 92 00:05:15,815 --> 00:05:18,551 Indeed, they would like to young bear cubs, 93 00:05:18,551 --> 00:05:21,554 sometimes just happily quipping with one another. 94 00:05:22,689 --> 00:05:25,258 In a letter of 1931, Lewis wrote to his brother 95 00:05:25,258 --> 00:05:26,926 it has become a regular custom 96 00:05:26,926 --> 00:05:30,630 that Tolkien should drop in on me of a Monday morning and drink a glass. 97 00:05:31,164 --> 00:05:34,167 This is one of the pleasantest spots in the week. 98 00:05:35,802 --> 00:05:39,672 Now, it would be absurd to say, and please know that I am not saying that 99 00:05:39,672 --> 00:05:44,610 Frodo and Sam are somehow fictionalized versions of Tolkien and Lewis. 100 00:05:45,478 --> 00:05:49,082 We know that Tolkien was not writing allegory, and we know that 101 00:05:49,882 --> 00:05:54,120 he spoke about the friendship of Frodo and Sam in connection with the camaraderie 102 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,024 that might develop between an officer and his Batman in the trenches 103 00:05:58,024 --> 00:05:58,858 of the Great War. 104 00:05:59,926 --> 00:06:01,060 Never did he speak about it 105 00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:04,063 in connection with the affinity between him and Lewis, 106 00:06:04,864 --> 00:06:08,067 but equally, it would be a stretch, I think, to say that that central 107 00:06:08,067 --> 00:06:09,001 friendship between the 108 00:06:09,001 --> 00:06:12,338 two hobbits in the Lord of the rings had nothing whatsoever to do 109 00:06:12,872 --> 00:06:17,009 with this real life friendship in both middle earth and Oxford. 110 00:06:17,443 --> 00:06:22,348 We can observe how a heavy burden was born to the end of a long journey, 111 00:06:22,515 --> 00:06:25,518 with the help of a loyal and encouraging friend. 112 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,822 Moving from friendship to faith. 113 00:06:29,822 --> 00:06:33,659 We ought also to say something about the fact that Lewis's conversion 114 00:06:33,659 --> 00:06:37,797 to Christianity was in no small part owing to the influence of Tolkien. 115 00:06:38,631 --> 00:06:41,634 In other words, Lewis influenced Tolkien 116 00:06:41,634 --> 00:06:45,238 by letting Tolkien influence him by giving Tolkien 117 00:06:45,238 --> 00:06:50,076 the opportunity to expound his mythic perspective on reality. 118 00:06:51,244 --> 00:06:52,445 In that famous late night 119 00:06:52,445 --> 00:06:56,249 conversation in Addison's walk in the grounds of Maudling in 1931 120 00:06:56,249 --> 00:07:00,520 that led to Lewis's conversion, Tolkien found himself in the role of someone 121 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,323 explaining that Christianity could be seen as a true myth. 122 00:07:04,824 --> 00:07:07,827 Even the true myth. 123 00:07:08,628 --> 00:07:11,531 The conversation would not only impact Lewis, 124 00:07:11,531 --> 00:07:14,734 but also led to Tolkiens poem myth Appear, 125 00:07:15,401 --> 00:07:19,005 one iteration of which was subtitled From fellow 126 00:07:19,005 --> 00:07:22,642 myth us to misery myths, from the myth lover to the myth hater. 127 00:07:23,409 --> 00:07:26,412 Lewis, at that point being the myth hater. 128 00:07:26,612 --> 00:07:29,615 Here's a part of that poem. 129 00:07:30,183 --> 00:07:32,752 He sees no stars who does not see them. 130 00:07:32,752 --> 00:07:36,489 A first of living silver made that sudden burst 131 00:07:36,823 --> 00:07:40,860 whose very echo after music long has since pursued. 132 00:07:41,594 --> 00:07:46,098 There is no firmament, only a void, unless a jeweled tent. 133 00:07:46,532 --> 00:07:48,401 Myth woven and elf patterned. 134 00:07:48,401 --> 00:07:50,036 And no earth. 135 00:07:50,036 --> 00:07:52,872 Unless the mother's womb, whence all have birth. 136 00:07:55,675 --> 00:07:56,509 Myth appear. 137 00:07:56,509 --> 00:07:58,811 Opens. And here I am, drawing upon Holly. 138 00:07:58,811 --> 00:08:03,583 Audrey's, recent book, Tolkiens Faith, and her helpful summary of the poem. 139 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:07,420 Smith opens by describing a way of looking at the world 140 00:08:08,521 --> 00:08:12,391 that is merely an endless multitude 141 00:08:12,391 --> 00:08:16,195 of forms, an aggregate of objects 142 00:08:16,195 --> 00:08:19,532 to be named and categorized, but without real intrinsic value. 143 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:23,970 A star, Tolkien says, is just some matter 144 00:08:23,970 --> 00:08:27,740 in a bull compelled to cause it causes mathematical. 145 00:08:28,574 --> 00:08:33,713 And that is a cold and regimented, inadequate understanding of the world. 146 00:08:34,213 --> 00:08:36,782 One can't be said, really, to have seen the stars 147 00:08:36,782 --> 00:08:39,785 unless one sees them as living silver. 148 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,889 Outer space is only a void 149 00:08:42,889 --> 00:08:46,859 unless and until it's perceived as a jeweled tent. 150 00:08:46,893 --> 00:08:48,294 Myth woven. 151 00:08:48,294 --> 00:08:48,661 To be. 152 00:08:48,661 --> 00:08:51,998 Myth woven means that the universe carries 153 00:08:51,998 --> 00:08:55,268 its meaningfulness with it in a sort of sacramental sense, 154 00:08:56,269 --> 00:08:57,203 a sacrament 155 00:08:57,203 --> 00:09:00,206 being something that participates in that which it signifies. 156 00:09:03,843 --> 00:09:06,078 As well as defending a mythic reading of reality. 157 00:09:06,078 --> 00:09:09,615 Myth celebrates human creativity in light of such a reading. 158 00:09:11,183 --> 00:09:14,554 Although human beings have become estranged from the creator, 159 00:09:15,021 --> 00:09:17,990 they can still show forth divine wisdom and truth 160 00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:20,993 in their own literary sub creations. 161 00:09:21,294 --> 00:09:23,396 And so Tolkien pronounces a blessing 162 00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:28,234 on the legend makers, whose stories help to pull people away 163 00:09:28,234 --> 00:09:31,938 from the flatness of numb sacrament and materialism. 164 00:09:33,005 --> 00:09:34,941 In the final lines of the poem, 165 00:09:34,941 --> 00:09:38,678 he affirms that poets, and by extension, storytellers 166 00:09:38,678 --> 00:09:42,782 and artists of all kinds, will still create in heaven. 167 00:09:43,115 --> 00:09:46,152 Be sure they still will make not being dead, 168 00:09:46,485 --> 00:09:49,488 and poets shall have flames upon their head. 169 00:09:50,623 --> 00:09:54,727 A bold image, for here he uses numerological imagery 170 00:09:54,727 --> 00:09:58,531 alluding to the way that the Holy Spirit appeared as tongues of fire 171 00:09:58,531 --> 00:10:01,734 upon the heads of Mary and the apostles on the day of Pentecost. 172 00:10:03,336 --> 00:10:03,669 Myth up 173 00:10:03,669 --> 00:10:07,039 here, then, is a passionate poetic testament to Tolkien's belief 174 00:10:07,607 --> 00:10:11,277 in the meaningfulness both of creation, the divine work of art, 175 00:10:11,277 --> 00:10:14,847 without which there would be nothing at all, and of some creation 176 00:10:15,381 --> 00:10:18,317 the human work of art, which imitates that divine 177 00:10:18,317 --> 00:10:21,320 example. 178 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,323 Now, Tolkien already had these ideas and beliefs. 179 00:10:24,323 --> 00:10:26,492 He didn't get them from Lewis. 180 00:10:26,492 --> 00:10:28,661 Lewis wasn't a source. 181 00:10:28,661 --> 00:10:31,063 But was he an influence? 182 00:10:31,063 --> 00:10:33,366 I think so Tolkien found in 183 00:10:33,366 --> 00:10:37,036 Lewis a receptive audience for these ideas and beliefs. 184 00:10:37,903 --> 00:10:41,507 And not just receptive, but malleable, changeable. 185 00:10:42,008 --> 00:10:47,046 Tolkiens exposition of this myth epic view altered the course of Lewis's life 186 00:10:47,513 --> 00:10:50,349 a few weeks after the Addison's Walk conversation. 187 00:10:50,349 --> 00:10:54,086 Tolkien remarked, I've just passed on from believing in God 188 00:10:54,086 --> 00:10:57,590 to definitely believing in Christ, and Christianity. 189 00:10:57,623 --> 00:11:01,560 My long night talk with Tolkien had a good deal to do with it. 190 00:11:03,562 --> 00:11:04,063 If you find 191 00:11:04,063 --> 00:11:07,066 someone who listens to what you say and thinks it important, 192 00:11:07,333 --> 00:11:11,570 it encourages you to regard your beliefs and ideas as worthwhile. 193 00:11:11,604 --> 00:11:15,141 He'll be more inclined to communicate them to other people too. 194 00:11:16,142 --> 00:11:20,379 So this, I think, is an aspect of Lewis's personal influence on Tolkien, 195 00:11:20,613 --> 00:11:23,582 and therefore indirectly on the Lord of the rings. 196 00:11:24,316 --> 00:11:27,219 Lewis inspired Tolkien to retain and develop 197 00:11:27,219 --> 00:11:31,490 the philosophy and spirituality that undergirds his epic fantasy. 198 00:11:32,291 --> 00:11:35,761 The whole of middle earth could be described as a mythic product, 199 00:11:36,128 --> 00:11:39,365 something illumined with light from an invisible lamp. 200 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:43,069 As one of Tolkien's more sympathetic readers put it. 201 00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:48,441 But if we were looking not for a general, but for a particular example of this 202 00:11:48,441 --> 00:11:54,547 mythic capacity, a good place to turn would be Gandalf's fight with the Balrog. 203 00:11:54,547 --> 00:11:59,018 In chapter five of The Two Towers, a fight that reaches its climax. 204 00:12:00,653 --> 00:12:01,620 As you recall, on the 205 00:12:01,620 --> 00:12:05,558 pinnacle of a mountain top out, the Balrog sprang, 206 00:12:05,558 --> 00:12:08,561 and even as I came behind, he burst into new flame. 207 00:12:08,994 --> 00:12:10,429 There was none to see. 208 00:12:10,429 --> 00:12:13,966 Or perhaps in after ages, songs would still be song of the battle of the peak. 209 00:12:14,633 --> 00:12:16,302 Suddenly Gandalf laughed. 210 00:12:16,302 --> 00:12:18,504 But what would they say in song? 211 00:12:18,504 --> 00:12:22,475 Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. 212 00:12:22,908 --> 00:12:25,244 Thunder they heard. And lightning, they said. 213 00:12:25,244 --> 00:12:26,979 Smote upon them level. 214 00:12:26,979 --> 00:12:27,780 And leaped back. 215 00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:30,082 Broken into tongues of fire. 216 00:12:30,082 --> 00:12:33,085 Is not that enough? 217 00:12:33,152 --> 00:12:34,253 Tongues of fire again? 218 00:12:34,253 --> 00:12:38,724 Interestingly, if you see thunder and lightning on a distant mountaintop, 219 00:12:39,058 --> 00:12:42,027 are you just observing a meteorological event? 220 00:12:42,027 --> 00:12:45,030 Is it nothing more than weather? 221 00:12:45,264 --> 00:12:47,433 Or are you just possibly also witnessing 222 00:12:47,433 --> 00:12:50,402 the contention of mighty spiritual forces? 223 00:12:50,736 --> 00:12:54,540 Is there conceivably a sacramental dimension to reality? 224 00:12:55,241 --> 00:12:58,978 Or is everything apprehensive or only on the material plane? 225 00:13:00,946 --> 00:13:02,281 C.S. Lewis, simply by 226 00:13:02,281 --> 00:13:05,551 being the convert that he was under Tolkien's influence, 227 00:13:06,118 --> 00:13:09,088 must surely have done something to invigorate Tolkien's 228 00:13:09,088 --> 00:13:13,192 mythic tendency and the seriousness with which he developed it. 229 00:13:13,192 --> 00:13:16,195 In his fiction. 230 00:13:17,363 --> 00:13:18,430 So they were friends. 231 00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:20,900 They were fellow myth lovers. 232 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:23,369 The third thing we should note about Lewis's influence 233 00:13:23,369 --> 00:13:26,972 on the author of the Lord of the rings is that it made him more open 234 00:13:26,972 --> 00:13:29,975 to constructive literary criticism. 235 00:13:31,544 --> 00:13:32,545 Tolkien shared 236 00:13:32,545 --> 00:13:35,548 with Lewis a draft version of The Lay of Leafeon. 237 00:13:35,648 --> 00:13:39,084 In the late 20s, Lewis read it, liked it, 238 00:13:39,285 --> 00:13:42,288 but also suggested ways in which it might be better. 239 00:13:42,688 --> 00:13:47,393 And he sweetened his advice by proposing his edits under the guise of five 240 00:13:47,393 --> 00:13:51,030 imaginary critics named Bentley, Peabody, pumpernickel, 241 00:13:51,397 --> 00:13:54,333 shuffler, and Chick. 242 00:13:54,333 --> 00:13:58,204 And Christopher Tolkien notes that in many cases, Lewis's proposed 243 00:13:58,437 --> 00:14:02,474 emanations or modifications of them are incorporated 244 00:14:02,474 --> 00:14:06,645 into the text of the play, including a rewrite of the opening. 245 00:14:07,813 --> 00:14:10,216 Tolkien was somewhat shy about sharing his work, 246 00:14:10,216 --> 00:14:13,219 and also not easily persuaded into making changes. 247 00:14:14,019 --> 00:14:16,121 Lewis, however, was able 248 00:14:16,121 --> 00:14:19,124 to praise open the Tolkien in Oyster 249 00:14:19,658 --> 00:14:23,729 and to propose alternative ways of transmuting grit into pearl, 250 00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:28,033 some of which ways Tolkien was prepared to accept. 251 00:14:29,034 --> 00:14:30,569 And this, of course, paved 252 00:14:30,569 --> 00:14:33,672 the way for a similar dynamic to operate between the two men. 253 00:14:33,672 --> 00:14:36,675 When it came to the writing of the Lord of the rings. 254 00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:41,280 Lewis was not always and only a critic, of course. 255 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,651 He served also as an example of an author who wrote extensively 256 00:14:45,651 --> 00:14:48,654 in modes, both fictional and non-fictional. 257 00:14:49,755 --> 00:14:51,657 Lewis was prodigious in his output. 258 00:14:51,657 --> 00:14:56,061 He published more than a book a year on average, from 1933 till his death. 259 00:14:56,462 --> 00:14:59,098 36 standalone titles in 30 years. 260 00:15:00,532 --> 00:15:00,933 And although 261 00:15:00,933 --> 00:15:04,069 Tolkien was never able to imitate that level of productivity, 262 00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:08,374 he was surely put on his mettle by the standards Lewis modeled. 263 00:15:09,675 --> 00:15:12,511 Lewis is very present in Tolkien's life 264 00:15:12,511 --> 00:15:15,714 as a standing rebuke to Tolkien's procrastinator 265 00:15:15,814 --> 00:15:18,817 and perfectionist ways. 266 00:15:20,219 --> 00:15:23,022 Friends, fellow myth lovers, 267 00:15:23,022 --> 00:15:26,191 literary critics, or other authors together. 268 00:15:26,859 --> 00:15:29,862 The final thing I want to say about Lewis's influence 269 00:15:29,962 --> 00:15:33,432 on Tolkien, from a personal point of view, is that he helped what we might call 270 00:15:34,266 --> 00:15:37,269 with the dry run of the Lord of the rings, 271 00:15:37,736 --> 00:15:40,739 namely the writing of The Hobbit. 272 00:15:41,774 --> 00:15:44,944 Lewis not only encouraged the writing of that earlier work, 273 00:15:44,944 --> 00:15:50,616 but also wrote glowing reviews of it in both the times and the TLS. 274 00:15:51,083 --> 00:15:54,253 And you can find those reviews reprinted in this volume. 275 00:15:54,253 --> 00:15:55,321 Image and imagination. 276 00:15:56,789 --> 00:15:57,289 Without the 277 00:15:57,289 --> 00:16:00,292 success of Tolkien's first foray into fiction. 278 00:16:01,660 --> 00:16:03,929 The New Hobbit as the Lord of the rings was 279 00:16:03,929 --> 00:16:07,099 initially called, would never have even been conceived, 280 00:16:07,099 --> 00:16:10,102 I suspect, let alone seen the light of day. 281 00:16:12,671 --> 00:16:16,141 And in the preface to his novel That Hideous Strength, 282 00:16:16,141 --> 00:16:19,144 Lewis tried to gin up an appetite for Tolkien's work by saying, 283 00:16:19,144 --> 00:16:23,415 those who would like to learn further about Numenor spelled wrong 284 00:16:24,116 --> 00:16:28,454 and the true West must, alas, await the publication of much 285 00:16:28,454 --> 00:16:32,358 that still exists only in the manuscripts of my friend professor J. 286 00:16:32,992 --> 00:16:34,960 Tolkien, 287 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,262 as well as generously gesturing 288 00:16:37,262 --> 00:16:40,265 towards the gestating work of his friend here. 289 00:16:40,632 --> 00:16:44,036 Lewis was perhaps more calculating calculatedly, hoping to exert 290 00:16:44,036 --> 00:16:47,573 some indirect pressure upon Tolkien to get his stuff into print. 291 00:16:49,141 --> 00:16:52,411 Lewis very loved his friend and sometimes impatient 292 00:16:52,711 --> 00:16:57,182 with the with his unproductive ness, describing Tolkien as dilatory 293 00:16:57,850 --> 00:17:00,586 and as having the work rate of a coral insect. 294 00:17:08,627 --> 00:17:09,428 Let's turn now to 295 00:17:09,428 --> 00:17:12,431 Lewis's influence on the writing of the Lord of the rings. 296 00:17:12,431 --> 00:17:16,769 And here we would do well to start by inspecting the dedicatory 297 00:17:16,769 --> 00:17:20,305 note to the first edition of The Fellowship of the ring. 298 00:17:20,873 --> 00:17:24,543 I take it that I dedicate the book to all admirers of Bilbo, 299 00:17:25,444 --> 00:17:29,081 but especially to my sons and my daughter, and to my friends, the inklings, 300 00:17:30,149 --> 00:17:32,451 to the inklings, because they have already listened to it 301 00:17:32,451 --> 00:17:34,920 with a patience, and indeed with an interest. 302 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,488 That almost leads me to suspect 303 00:17:36,488 --> 00:17:39,491 that they have hobbit blood in their venerable ancestry. 304 00:17:39,758 --> 00:17:42,361 To my sons and my daughter, for the same reason, 305 00:17:42,361 --> 00:17:45,597 and also because they have all helped me in the labors of composition. 306 00:17:49,601 --> 00:17:52,671 This dedication, by the way, is dropped from subsequent 307 00:17:53,672 --> 00:17:56,675 editions of the Lord of the rings. 308 00:17:58,577 --> 00:18:01,580 But he dedicates it to the inklings. 309 00:18:02,714 --> 00:18:03,415 Not really. 310 00:18:03,415 --> 00:18:06,952 In fact, to all the inklings, because not all the inklings 311 00:18:06,952 --> 00:18:09,955 did listen to it with patience and interest. 312 00:18:10,923 --> 00:18:12,825 God, not another effing 313 00:18:12,825 --> 00:18:15,828 elf or words to that effect. 314 00:18:16,161 --> 00:18:19,565 The famous or infamous response of Hugo Dyson on one occasion, 315 00:18:21,033 --> 00:18:24,303 Lewis at times had to suppress 316 00:18:24,303 --> 00:18:27,706 Tolkien's hostility, saying, shut up, Hugo. 317 00:18:27,973 --> 00:18:29,675 Come on toddlers. 318 00:18:29,675 --> 00:18:32,811 So that Tolkien wouldn't wilt in the face of such opposition. 319 00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:37,516 And Dyson was not the only member of the group who didn't care for 320 00:18:37,516 --> 00:18:38,517 middle earth. 321 00:18:38,517 --> 00:18:41,420 Owen Barfield never finished reading the Lord of the rings. 322 00:18:41,420 --> 00:18:44,990 Carl Ren believes Tolkien had wasted his professional career 323 00:18:44,990 --> 00:18:47,292 writing a trivial literature. 324 00:18:47,292 --> 00:18:49,928 And John Wayne said that the Lord of the rings 325 00:18:49,928 --> 00:18:53,132 presents no picture of human life that I can recognize. 326 00:18:55,868 --> 00:18:59,071 More positive responses came from elsewhere in the circle. 327 00:18:59,438 --> 00:19:03,342 Warren Lewis confided to his diary, golly, what a book! 328 00:19:03,876 --> 00:19:07,579 The inexhaustible fertility of the man's imagination amazes me. 329 00:19:08,780 --> 00:19:11,783 Charles Williams read drafts with appreciation, 330 00:19:12,251 --> 00:19:15,521 but died in 1945, well before the work was finished. 331 00:19:16,388 --> 00:19:19,892 Jehovah's Matthew helped Tolkien find an alternative publisher 332 00:19:19,892 --> 00:19:23,929 when negotiations with Allen and Unwitting temporarily broke down. 333 00:19:25,531 --> 00:19:28,667 But none of these inklings came close to Lewis's 334 00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:31,670 hearty appetite for Tolkien's sub created world. 335 00:19:31,937 --> 00:19:35,941 Tolkien himself reported that CSL had a passion for hearing things 336 00:19:35,941 --> 00:19:39,678 read aloud, the power of memory for things received in that way, 337 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:44,283 and also a facility in extempore criticism, none of which were shared, 338 00:19:44,283 --> 00:19:48,387 especially not the last in anything like the same degree by his friends. 339 00:19:49,221 --> 00:19:52,824 So when Tolkien dedicates the fellowship to the inklings, 340 00:19:53,258 --> 00:19:56,128 it's pretty clearly one particular inkling 341 00:19:56,128 --> 00:19:59,698 who stands out as exhibiting Hobbit blood in his ancestry. 342 00:20:02,134 --> 00:20:02,968 But here we touch 343 00:20:02,968 --> 00:20:06,638 on an irony of Lewis's influence on the book, which is that 344 00:20:07,005 --> 00:20:10,075 Lewis had comparatively little patience for hobbits. 345 00:20:11,343 --> 00:20:13,912 Lewis thought the opening chapter of the Lord of the rings 346 00:20:13,912 --> 00:20:18,150 had too much conversation on hobbits talk, which tended to make it lag a little. 347 00:20:19,418 --> 00:20:23,922 Tolkien himself was, as he put it, personally, immensely amused by hobbits. 348 00:20:23,922 --> 00:20:27,292 As such, he said, he could contemplate them 349 00:20:28,727 --> 00:20:30,696 eating and making the rather 350 00:20:30,696 --> 00:20:33,699 fatuous jokes indefinitely. 351 00:20:33,899 --> 00:20:38,103 But I find that this is not the case with even my most devoted fans, such as Mr. 352 00:20:38,103 --> 00:20:39,638 Lewis. 353 00:20:39,638 --> 00:20:41,840 Mr. Lewis says hobbits are only amusing 354 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,843 when in unknown hobbit like situations. 355 00:20:46,612 --> 00:20:48,413 And when Rayner and Wynn 356 00:20:48,413 --> 00:20:51,650 seconded Lewis's criticism, Tolkien said 357 00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:56,588 I must plainly bow to my two chief and most well-disposed critics. 358 00:20:57,689 --> 00:20:58,023 The trouble 359 00:20:58,023 --> 00:21:00,993 is that hobbit talk amuses me privately 360 00:21:00,993 --> 00:21:04,496 and to a certain degree also, my boy Christopher, more than adventures. 361 00:21:05,230 --> 00:21:08,233 But I must curb this severely. 362 00:21:10,035 --> 00:21:12,871 And this Tolkien did. 363 00:21:12,871 --> 00:21:17,209 I cut out some passages of light hearted hobbit conversation, which Lewis found 364 00:21:17,209 --> 00:21:21,780 tiresome, thinking that if he did, most other readers 365 00:21:21,780 --> 00:21:24,783 would feel the same. 366 00:21:28,053 --> 00:21:30,355 So here we have evidence that Lewis's influence 367 00:21:30,355 --> 00:21:33,358 on the Lord of the rings did go beyond encouragement. 368 00:21:33,558 --> 00:21:37,062 Here's an example of influence, as it is ordinarily understood. 369 00:21:39,097 --> 00:21:40,332 How much Lewis himself 370 00:21:40,332 --> 00:21:43,335 realized he was influencing Tolkien is a moot point. 371 00:21:43,802 --> 00:21:47,773 In a letter of 1959, Lewis declared, no one ever influenced Tolkien. 372 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,942 You might as well try to influence a Bandersnatch. 373 00:21:50,942 --> 00:21:54,279 We listened to his work but could affected only by encouragement. 374 00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:57,049 He has only two reactions to criticism. 375 00:21:57,049 --> 00:21:59,284 Either he begins the whole work over again from the beginning, 376 00:22:00,385 --> 00:22:03,388 or else takes no notice at all. 377 00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:06,892 Now, that was not the only time 378 00:22:06,892 --> 00:22:09,895 that Lewis likened Tolkien to a Bandersnatch. 379 00:22:10,228 --> 00:22:13,298 And in case it's been a while since you read Lewis Carroll, 380 00:22:13,865 --> 00:22:16,768 what he is referring to is that moment in Through the Looking Glass 381 00:22:16,768 --> 00:22:19,204 when Alice is running with the White King. 382 00:22:19,204 --> 00:22:20,605 Would you be good enough? 383 00:22:20,605 --> 00:22:22,908 Alice panted out after running a little further 384 00:22:22,908 --> 00:22:25,911 to stop a minute just to get one's breath again. 385 00:22:26,411 --> 00:22:28,413 I'm good enough, the king said. 386 00:22:28,413 --> 00:22:30,182 Only I'm not strong enough. 387 00:22:30,182 --> 00:22:33,752 You see, a minute goes by so fearfully quick you might as well 388 00:22:33,752 --> 00:22:36,722 try to stop a Bandersnatch. 389 00:22:37,956 --> 00:22:41,193 Evidently, though, Tolkien could sometimes be influenced. 390 00:22:41,293 --> 00:22:44,296 This Bandersnatch could be stopped 391 00:22:44,629 --> 00:22:47,933 by inducing Tolkien to trim out passages of Hobbit talk. 392 00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:51,203 Lewis clearly influenced the writing of the Lord of the rings, 393 00:22:52,504 --> 00:22:52,904 which 394 00:22:52,904 --> 00:22:56,141 suggests we should parse a little more carefully. 395 00:22:56,641 --> 00:22:59,611 Tolkien statement that I started with 396 00:22:59,978 --> 00:23:03,014 what Tolkien says there is that the unpayable debt 397 00:23:03,014 --> 00:23:05,050 that I owe to Lewis was not influence, 398 00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:08,053 as it is ordinarily understood, but sheer encouragement. 399 00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:11,123 So Tolkien is not rejecting the idea that Lewis 400 00:23:11,123 --> 00:23:14,126 influenced him as influences ordinarily understood. 401 00:23:14,593 --> 00:23:17,362 He's only saying or implying 402 00:23:17,362 --> 00:23:20,365 that any such influence would not be considered 403 00:23:20,866 --> 00:23:23,869 part of the unpayable debt that he owed to him. 404 00:23:24,369 --> 00:23:28,173 In other words, Lewis's influence as influence is ordinarily understood. 405 00:23:28,707 --> 00:23:31,777 Was a debt small enough that it could be repaid? 406 00:23:33,345 --> 00:23:36,348 His encouragement, on the other hand, was immeasurable. 407 00:23:37,382 --> 00:23:40,352 Getting clarity on this point helps make better sense 408 00:23:40,719 --> 00:23:43,922 of such statements from Tolkien as this. 409 00:23:45,023 --> 00:23:48,493 When Lewis would say, you can do better than that, better Tolkien, please. 410 00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:50,195 I would try. 411 00:23:50,195 --> 00:23:52,731 I'd sit down and write the section over and over. 412 00:23:56,034 --> 00:23:57,035 But that's influence, 413 00:23:57,035 --> 00:24:00,038 not just encouragement. 414 00:24:00,071 --> 00:24:02,841 One such section that Tolkien rewrote 415 00:24:02,841 --> 00:24:06,645 was the confrontation between Gandalf and Saruman in The Two Towers. 416 00:24:07,179 --> 00:24:10,715 Tolkien described this as one of the very few places 417 00:24:10,715 --> 00:24:14,219 where, in the event, I found Lewis's detailed criticisms 418 00:24:14,219 --> 00:24:17,222 useful and just 419 00:24:17,389 --> 00:24:20,392 Diana glowing in her book The Company They Keep. 420 00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:23,295 Lewis and Tolkien as writers and community, 421 00:24:23,295 --> 00:24:25,997 has examined that passage carefully. 422 00:24:25,997 --> 00:24:30,669 And although she concedes that she can't link any of the known changes 423 00:24:30,702 --> 00:24:33,705 in the Gandalf Saruman passage, direct 424 00:24:33,872 --> 00:24:36,875 to comments made by Lewis, in particular. 425 00:24:37,509 --> 00:24:39,778 Nonetheless, the changes were consistent 426 00:24:39,778 --> 00:24:42,781 with the sorts of opinions Lewis often expressed. 427 00:24:43,782 --> 00:24:45,750 The changes included the removal 428 00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:50,489 to the foreword of A Long Discourse on Tobacco, and the dropping of Sheridan's 429 00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:54,025 lengthy discussion of hobbits and the origin of their name. 430 00:24:56,761 --> 00:24:57,596 Tolkien was 431 00:24:57,596 --> 00:25:00,599 prepared to submit to such advice, 432 00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:04,002 both in the Gandalf ceremony and passage, 433 00:25:04,002 --> 00:25:07,005 and even with regard to a much more important scene. 434 00:25:07,506 --> 00:25:10,308 The very ending of the entire story. 435 00:25:10,308 --> 00:25:12,944 This also underwent significant revision. 436 00:25:12,944 --> 00:25:16,982 Christopher Tolkien notes that the words that end the Lord of the rings. 437 00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:21,853 Well, I'm a back, he said, weren't intended to do 438 00:25:21,853 --> 00:25:25,223 so when my father wrote them in the long draft manuscript. 439 00:25:26,324 --> 00:25:29,094 Tolkien originally wrote an epilog set 440 00:25:29,094 --> 00:25:32,330 16 years after Sam's return to the Shire. 441 00:25:33,031 --> 00:25:38,136 The epilog ties up loose ends, casts a much more reflective 442 00:25:38,136 --> 00:25:42,374 and retrospective mood over the ending, and mentions by name 443 00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:46,144 eight of the Gamgee offspring 444 00:25:46,144 --> 00:25:50,582 Elanor, Frodo, lad, Rose, merry, Pippin, Goldilocks, 445 00:25:50,715 --> 00:25:55,153 Ham and Daisy, and even Sam's mother in law gets a nod. 446 00:25:56,321 --> 00:25:56,821 I'll read the 447 00:25:56,821 --> 00:26:00,492 draft epilog in a moment, but first, let's remind ourselves 448 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:04,029 how the return of the King as it was published actually 449 00:26:04,029 --> 00:26:07,032 ends. 450 00:26:07,032 --> 00:26:10,368 At last, the three companions turned away and never again. 451 00:26:10,402 --> 00:26:12,737 Looking back, they rode slowly homewards, 452 00:26:12,737 --> 00:26:16,141 and they spoke no words to one another until they came back to the Shire. 453 00:26:16,474 --> 00:26:18,543 But each had great comfort in his friends. 454 00:26:18,543 --> 00:26:21,146 On the long gray road. 455 00:26:21,146 --> 00:26:24,215 At last they rode over the downs and took the east road. 456 00:26:24,516 --> 00:26:27,452 And then Marion Pippin rode on to Buckland, 457 00:26:27,452 --> 00:26:30,422 and already they were singing again as they went. 458 00:26:30,422 --> 00:26:33,592 But Sam turned to Bywater, and so came back up 459 00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:37,228 the hill as day was ending once more, and he went on. 460 00:26:37,729 --> 00:26:40,098 And there was yellow light and fire within, 461 00:26:40,098 --> 00:26:42,934 and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. 462 00:26:42,934 --> 00:26:44,135 And Rose drew him in, 463 00:26:44,135 --> 00:26:47,472 and sat him in his chair, and put little Eleanor upon his lap. 464 00:26:48,073 --> 00:26:49,975 He drew a deep breath. 465 00:26:49,975 --> 00:26:52,177 Well, I'm back, he said. 466 00:26:56,214 --> 00:26:57,415 Now here's the equivalent 467 00:26:57,415 --> 00:27:00,418 passage from the draft. 468 00:27:01,152 --> 00:27:02,721 All the children were now in bed. 469 00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:05,624 It was late, but here and there lights were still glimmering 470 00:27:05,624 --> 00:27:07,959 in Hobbiton and in houses dotted about the night. 471 00:27:07,959 --> 00:27:09,761 Folded countryside. 472 00:27:09,761 --> 00:27:12,764 Master Samwise stood at the door and looked away eastward. 473 00:27:12,864 --> 00:27:15,867 He drew mistress Rose to him and set his arm about her. 474 00:27:16,201 --> 00:27:18,269 March the 25th, he said. 475 00:27:18,269 --> 00:27:20,505 This day, 17 years ago. Rose wife. 476 00:27:20,505 --> 00:27:22,240 I didn't think I should ever see them again. 477 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,576 But I kept on hoping. 478 00:27:24,576 --> 00:27:26,144 I never hoped at all time. 479 00:27:26,144 --> 00:27:28,546 She said, not until that very day. 480 00:27:28,546 --> 00:27:30,482 And then suddenly I did. 481 00:27:30,482 --> 00:27:31,383 About noon it was. 482 00:27:31,383 --> 00:27:34,019 And I felt so glad that I began singing. 483 00:27:34,019 --> 00:27:37,022 And mother said at last, as ruffians about. 484 00:27:37,389 --> 00:27:39,524 But I said, let them come. 485 00:27:39,524 --> 00:27:40,825 That time will soon be over. 486 00:27:40,825 --> 00:27:42,961 Sam is coming back. And you came. 487 00:27:44,295 --> 00:27:44,829 I did, 488 00:27:44,829 --> 00:27:48,233 said Sam, to the most beloved est place in all the world. 489 00:27:48,233 --> 00:27:51,036 To my rose and my garden. 490 00:27:51,036 --> 00:27:53,672 They went in and Sam shut the door. 491 00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:57,542 But even as he did so, he heard suddenly deep and unsettled 492 00:27:57,909 --> 00:28:01,379 the sigh and murmur of the sea upon the shores of middle 493 00:28:01,379 --> 00:28:04,382 earth. 494 00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:08,820 Now Tolkien left out this epilog because, 495 00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:12,290 as he explained, it had been universally condemned 496 00:28:13,491 --> 00:28:16,194 by all those who had read it universally. 497 00:28:16,194 --> 00:28:19,597 Surely indicates that Lewis was part of the cause of condemnation. 498 00:28:21,499 --> 00:28:22,801 And I, Diana Klein, 499 00:28:22,801 --> 00:28:26,471 is of the opinion that it is likely that Lewis in particular objected 500 00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:30,542 to the epilog, given that he found passages to do with hobbits 501 00:28:31,176 --> 00:28:33,645 outside of the hobbit like situations 502 00:28:33,645 --> 00:28:36,648 tiresome. 503 00:28:37,382 --> 00:28:40,418 Given how we readers have all become 504 00:28:40,418 --> 00:28:43,922 accustomed to the published ending, it's hard to be objective. 505 00:28:43,922 --> 00:28:46,591 I think about the relative merits of the two versions, 506 00:28:47,926 --> 00:28:48,393 but trying 507 00:28:48,393 --> 00:28:51,362 to set aside the comforting familiarity of the known version 508 00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:55,500 and looking as dispassionately as possible at the differences. 509 00:28:56,868 --> 00:28:59,971 I think the published version is stronger. 510 00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:04,809 It keeps the focus more on The Hobbit members of the fellowship, as opposed 511 00:29:04,809 --> 00:29:08,313 to the Gamgee family, and a list of names that mean little or nothing to us. 512 00:29:09,581 --> 00:29:12,817 It keeps the time frame continuous with the action of Sam 513 00:29:12,817 --> 00:29:14,385 as return to the Shire, 514 00:29:14,385 --> 00:29:16,955 rather than jumping ahead more than a decade only 515 00:29:16,955 --> 00:29:19,958 to look back at the moment we've just left. 516 00:29:20,291 --> 00:29:22,594 And it means that the final sentence of the entire 517 00:29:22,594 --> 00:29:25,730 epic is not a line of natural description about the sea, 518 00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:30,735 but a line of dialog from that character who was Tolkien elsewhere. 519 00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:33,838 So it has by this point become the chief hero of the story. 520 00:29:34,873 --> 00:29:35,406 In all these 521 00:29:35,406 --> 00:29:38,409 ways, it's tighter, more dramatic, 522 00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:41,780 more rooted in established character and relationship. 523 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,083 Tolkien was surely right to heed his readers 524 00:29:45,083 --> 00:29:48,086 advice. 525 00:29:48,953 --> 00:29:51,890 In a letter of 1963, Lewis, 526 00:29:51,890 --> 00:29:54,893 slightly modifying his earlier 527 00:29:54,893 --> 00:29:58,329 Bandersnatch remark, told a correspondent 528 00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:02,033 I'm certain I didn't influence Tolkien, 529 00:30:02,033 --> 00:30:04,402 that is, didn't influence what he wrote. 530 00:30:04,402 --> 00:30:07,772 My continual encouragement carried to the point of nagging, 531 00:30:08,273 --> 00:30:12,644 influenced him very much to write at all with that gravity and by length. 532 00:30:13,411 --> 00:30:16,381 In other words, I acted as a midwife, not as a father. 533 00:30:18,082 --> 00:30:21,085 Well, although Lewis is still disavowing influence, 534 00:30:21,586 --> 00:30:23,922 he is nonetheless admitting 535 00:30:23,922 --> 00:30:26,925 that he helped Tolkien write with that gravity 536 00:30:28,526 --> 00:30:30,728 and that and at that length. 537 00:30:30,728 --> 00:30:33,631 And that's no small influence, 538 00:30:33,631 --> 00:30:37,936 I suspect by a gravity, Lewis means that he steered Tolkien away 539 00:30:37,936 --> 00:30:42,140 from the relative levity of undiluted 540 00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:45,143 hobbit tree and Tolkien's fascination 541 00:30:45,343 --> 00:30:50,181 with worldbuilding as distinct from concentrated storytelling. 542 00:30:51,349 --> 00:30:53,184 Tolkien admitted 543 00:30:53,184 --> 00:30:53,785 when he was first 544 00:30:53,785 --> 00:30:57,121 getting to work on the Lord of the rings that the construction of elaborate 545 00:30:57,121 --> 00:31:01,125 and consistent mythology and two languages rather occupies the mind. 546 00:31:02,126 --> 00:31:04,829 He found his invented tongues and nomenclatures 547 00:31:04,829 --> 00:31:08,132 and alphabets of the most absorbing interest, 548 00:31:08,967 --> 00:31:11,803 and said that if I had considered my own pleasure 549 00:31:11,803 --> 00:31:14,672 more than the stomachs of a possible audience, 550 00:31:14,672 --> 00:31:17,175 there would have been a great deal more Elvish. 551 00:31:17,175 --> 00:31:20,178 In the book. 552 00:31:20,845 --> 00:31:21,579 And this accords 553 00:31:21,579 --> 00:31:24,616 with what Walter Hooper reports in one place. 554 00:31:24,616 --> 00:31:28,519 Professor Tolkien told me that he had been reading various genealogies 555 00:31:28,519 --> 00:31:31,823 and appendices to Lewis long before there was any written story. 556 00:31:33,091 --> 00:31:37,061 His interests, he told me, were primarily in those aspects of middle earth, 557 00:31:37,896 --> 00:31:41,332 and that it was Lewis who encouraged him to write a story, to go with them. 558 00:31:42,166 --> 00:31:45,169 You know, Jack, he said to me he had to have a story. 559 00:31:45,370 --> 00:31:46,271 And that story. 560 00:31:46,271 --> 00:31:48,840 The Lord of the rings was written to keep Lewis quiet. 561 00:31:52,977 --> 00:31:55,480 Diana Claire concludes that Lewis's 562 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,617 influence on the writing of the Lord of the rings resulted in less hobbits 563 00:31:59,617 --> 00:32:04,088 talk, more danger, and less dialog, more narrative. 564 00:32:05,924 --> 00:32:08,159 The languages, the histories, the genealogies, 565 00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:11,596 the lexicographers and all had a place in the appendices. 566 00:32:12,196 --> 00:32:13,364 They weren't wasted. 567 00:32:13,364 --> 00:32:17,235 And they do contribute greatly to the eternity of the sub created world. 568 00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:22,340 But left to his own devices, Tolkien would probably have allowed those materials 569 00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:26,244 to seep more into the main text and subtly undermine 570 00:32:26,244 --> 00:32:29,247 its dramatic power. 571 00:32:31,449 --> 00:32:33,318 Excuse me, I need to say two other 572 00:32:33,318 --> 00:32:36,721 quick things about Lewis's influence on the writing of the Lord of the rings. 573 00:32:36,721 --> 00:32:40,558 Before we come to the final section, and the first has to do 574 00:32:40,591 --> 00:32:43,761 with the ents in general, and Treebeard in particular, 575 00:32:45,063 --> 00:32:47,198 Lewis's booming voice. 576 00:32:47,198 --> 00:32:50,468 According to Neville, Cog Hill influenced the home realm 577 00:32:50,902 --> 00:32:53,571 of Treebeard 578 00:32:53,571 --> 00:32:56,641 and, according to the Hollywood way in Tolkiens modern reading, 579 00:32:57,575 --> 00:33:00,578 Lewis's novel out of the Silent Planet 580 00:33:00,678 --> 00:33:03,114 seems to have influenced Tolkien's creation 581 00:33:03,114 --> 00:33:06,117 of the ents and the whole humans. 582 00:33:06,117 --> 00:33:09,120 I don't have time to present audio his argument, but 583 00:33:09,153 --> 00:33:13,458 I find what she says the convincing and recommend that you consult her book 584 00:33:13,458 --> 00:33:16,461 if you want the details. 585 00:33:17,829 --> 00:33:19,530 The other thing I want to say is to put a fine 586 00:33:19,530 --> 00:33:22,500 a point on what we mean by Lewis's encouragement. 587 00:33:23,835 --> 00:33:26,771 Encouragement can simply mean 588 00:33:26,771 --> 00:33:30,742 urging someone on TV, viewing them, badgering them, hounding them. 589 00:33:32,210 --> 00:33:34,946 Now, as just noted, Lewis's encouragement was carried 590 00:33:34,946 --> 00:33:39,784 at times to the point of nagging, but mostly almost entirely. 591 00:33:39,817 --> 00:33:44,655 His encouragement was that of a keen enthusiast who wanted more. 592 00:33:45,356 --> 00:33:49,260 Not that of an exasperated colleague who wanted dumb. 593 00:33:51,195 --> 00:33:51,796 And Tolkien 594 00:33:51,796 --> 00:33:54,799 happily records in letters to Christopher 595 00:33:55,299 --> 00:33:59,003 how various installments that he's recently been reading aloud to 596 00:33:59,003 --> 00:34:03,841 Lewis have been heard with fullest approbation, complete approval. 597 00:34:05,109 --> 00:34:07,812 After hearing the chapters entitled She Loves Land 598 00:34:07,812 --> 00:34:10,815 The Choices of Master Samwise Lewis. 599 00:34:10,948 --> 00:34:14,419 So Tolkien reported approved with unusual fervor 600 00:34:14,419 --> 00:34:18,022 and was actually affected to tears by the last chapter. 601 00:34:18,756 --> 00:34:21,759 So it seems to be keeping up. 602 00:34:23,528 --> 00:34:25,596 Of course, because the two men were seeing each other 603 00:34:25,596 --> 00:34:28,599 so often, not many letters passed between them, 604 00:34:29,467 --> 00:34:34,672 but one letter that was sent in 1953 shows us Lewis's thoughts 605 00:34:34,872 --> 00:34:38,443 after reading the latest draft of the fellowship. 606 00:34:38,676 --> 00:34:42,046 Dear toddlers, I've been trying like a boy with a bit of toffee 607 00:34:42,246 --> 00:34:45,249 to take volume one slowly to make it last. 608 00:34:45,383 --> 00:34:48,352 But appetite over mastered me and it's now finished. 609 00:34:48,352 --> 00:34:50,988 Far too short for me. 610 00:34:50,988 --> 00:34:54,225 The spell does not break the love of Gimli 611 00:34:54,592 --> 00:34:58,196 and the departure from love Lauren is still almost unbearable. 612 00:35:00,665 --> 00:35:02,400 We don't have time to read 613 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,370 what I've put on your handout, the earlier letter to Tolkien that Lewis 614 00:35:06,370 --> 00:35:09,507 wrote after reading the finished draft right through for the first time. 615 00:35:10,208 --> 00:35:13,511 If you didn't read it when you arrived, take it away and look at it afterwards. 616 00:35:13,544 --> 00:35:14,912 It's a marvelous specimen. 617 00:35:14,912 --> 00:35:19,951 I think, of informed, sensitive but not uncritical support 618 00:35:20,518 --> 00:35:24,222 and maintaining critical distance was important, 619 00:35:24,222 --> 00:35:28,793 I think, for Lewis's encouragement to be taken seriously by Tolkien. 620 00:35:29,894 --> 00:35:32,096 For instance, in that letter on the handout, 621 00:35:32,096 --> 00:35:35,366 Lewis remarks all the alliterative verse I liked. 622 00:35:36,567 --> 00:35:39,570 Let the reader understand the alliterative verse. 623 00:35:40,271 --> 00:35:44,008 In other words, all the non alliterative verse he was not so sure about. 624 00:35:44,609 --> 00:35:48,513 And Tolkien knew this, of course, disclosing in a letter that Lewis regards 625 00:35:48,513 --> 00:35:53,451 the verses as on the whole poor, regrettable and out of place. 626 00:35:55,353 --> 00:35:58,322 So Lewis's encouragement was was neither 627 00:35:58,322 --> 00:36:01,292 just a stern cattle prod 628 00:36:02,493 --> 00:36:03,661 nor a butter bath of 629 00:36:03,661 --> 00:36:06,664 indiscriminate approval. 630 00:36:07,131 --> 00:36:09,800 Keeping the balance between warm 631 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,371 praise and cool appraisal was 632 00:36:13,571 --> 00:36:16,908 what made his support of Tolkien so effective and fruitful. 633 00:36:22,613 --> 00:36:25,650 Finally, we turn to Lewis's influence on the reception 634 00:36:25,816 --> 00:36:28,819 of the Lord of the rings. 635 00:36:29,453 --> 00:36:33,124 One of the inklings, Robert Hayward, records the first hearing. 636 00:36:33,291 --> 00:36:36,093 Its reception was mixed. 637 00:36:36,093 --> 00:36:40,831 Lewis himself was loud in its praise, but his view was not shared by everyone. 638 00:36:41,666 --> 00:36:45,803 Time, how about says time has supported Lewis's judgment 639 00:36:46,404 --> 00:36:49,407 and Tolkien has added hobbits to folklore? 640 00:36:51,409 --> 00:36:52,076 Well, true. 641 00:36:52,076 --> 00:36:53,377 Time. 642 00:36:53,377 --> 00:36:56,080 Time has supported Lewis's judgment. 643 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,516 But it wasn't just time, because 644 00:36:58,516 --> 00:37:01,686 Lewis sought to bring about the confirmation of his own judgment 645 00:37:01,686 --> 00:37:05,823 by an assiduous effort to promote Tolkien's work every way he could. 646 00:37:07,892 --> 00:37:10,461 In a letter of 1953, 647 00:37:10,461 --> 00:37:13,464 Lewis told the publisher Stanley Unwin, 648 00:37:14,131 --> 00:37:17,101 I would willingly do all in my power 649 00:37:17,101 --> 00:37:20,371 to secure for Tolkien's great book the recognition it deserves. 650 00:37:20,404 --> 00:37:22,273 Would the enclosed be any use? 651 00:37:22,273 --> 00:37:24,675 If not, tell me, and I'll try again. 652 00:37:24,675 --> 00:37:27,578 The enclosed was a paragraph of lavish 653 00:37:27,578 --> 00:37:30,781 praise designed to serve as a blurb for the book. 654 00:37:31,582 --> 00:37:34,385 You may recognize it. This is how it runs. 655 00:37:34,385 --> 00:37:38,389 It would be almost safe to say that no book like this has ever been written. 656 00:37:39,056 --> 00:37:42,460 If Ariosto rivaled it in invention, in fact, he does not. 657 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,429 He would still lack its heroic seriousness. 658 00:37:45,429 --> 00:37:49,100 No imaginary world has been projected, which is at once so multifarious 659 00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:54,505 and so true to its own inner laws, none so seemingly objective, so disinfected 660 00:37:54,505 --> 00:37:57,541 from the taint of an author's merely individual psychology, 661 00:37:58,109 --> 00:38:00,878 not so relevant to the actual human situation. 662 00:38:00,878 --> 00:38:02,880 Yet so free from allegory. 663 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,150 And what fine shading various in the variations of style 664 00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:10,021 to meet the almost endless diversity of scenes and characters. 665 00:38:10,488 --> 00:38:12,890 Comic, homely. Epic. 666 00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:14,392 Monstrous or diabolic. 667 00:38:17,428 --> 00:38:20,197 In addition to this blurb, Lewis also paid attention 668 00:38:20,197 --> 00:38:23,634 to reviews discussing with Tolkien strategies 669 00:38:23,968 --> 00:38:26,971 for giving the book the best possible launch into the world. 670 00:38:28,673 --> 00:38:32,043 As Tolkien wrote to Alan, and when Mr. C.S. 671 00:38:32,043 --> 00:38:35,746 Lewis, whose two different reviews of The Hobbit had a good deal 672 00:38:35,746 --> 00:38:39,250 to do with its favorable start, he's anxious about reviews. 673 00:38:39,984 --> 00:38:42,787 He would review it better than anyone else I can think of, 674 00:38:42,787 --> 00:38:45,790 and at any rate, knows the book better than anyone but myself. 675 00:38:46,424 --> 00:38:47,058 I think. 676 00:38:47,058 --> 00:38:51,462 And he agrees that at least one sympathetic review, especially by someone 677 00:38:51,462 --> 00:38:56,267 who knows what the total is like and works up to, is very important for volume one, 678 00:38:56,534 --> 00:38:59,537 which might be misunderstood. 679 00:39:01,672 --> 00:39:03,007 So in these conversations, 680 00:39:03,007 --> 00:39:07,411 the two men are having Lewis's effectively talking himself into the job. 681 00:39:08,446 --> 00:39:11,582 He reviewed the fellowship in August 1954. 682 00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:16,020 One of the reviews on your handout. 683 00:39:16,253 --> 00:39:18,222 It seems that one reason Lewis 684 00:39:18,222 --> 00:39:23,494 was so anxious about early responses was that he had doubts 685 00:39:23,494 --> 00:39:27,431 about the opening chapter of fellowship, and feared it might put people off. 686 00:39:29,233 --> 00:39:31,268 Almost the only note of coolness 687 00:39:31,268 --> 00:39:35,573 in the entire review is where he says this. 688 00:39:36,340 --> 00:39:40,678 First, we must clearly understand that though the fellowship in one way continues 689 00:39:40,678 --> 00:39:44,849 its author's fairy tale, The Hobbit, it is in no sense an overgrown juvenile. 690 00:39:45,316 --> 00:39:48,953 The truth is, the other way round, the Hobbit was merely a fragment 691 00:39:48,953 --> 00:39:52,223 torn from the author's huge myth and adapted for children. 692 00:39:53,357 --> 00:39:57,094 Misunderstanding on this point might easily be encouraged by the first chapter, 693 00:39:57,628 --> 00:40:00,131 in which the author, taking a risk, 694 00:40:00,131 --> 00:40:03,834 writes almost in the manner of the earlier and far lighter book. 695 00:40:08,072 --> 00:40:09,240 In private, 696 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:13,477 Lewis thought the opening chapter was much worse than a risk. 697 00:40:13,511 --> 00:40:16,514 He called it, frankly, a botch. 698 00:40:19,984 --> 00:40:22,052 And you can see how Lewis is strategically trying 699 00:40:22,052 --> 00:40:26,357 to get potential readers over that botch as he viewed it. 700 00:40:28,092 --> 00:40:29,760 One can also see Lewis again 701 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,331 strategically warning against allegorical readings, as he had done in his blurb, 702 00:40:34,932 --> 00:40:37,935 and also against charges of escapism. 703 00:40:39,069 --> 00:40:41,405 In the second review, the follow up review that he wrote 704 00:40:41,405 --> 00:40:44,642 in 1955 for both The Two Towers and The Return of the King, 705 00:40:45,242 --> 00:40:47,845 we can see Lewis taking steps 706 00:40:47,845 --> 00:40:50,881 to forestall other misreadings, to forestall 707 00:40:51,515 --> 00:40:55,519 those who would dismiss the work for being morally simplistic, 708 00:40:56,787 --> 00:41:00,291 and to explain that one of the main messages of the work 709 00:41:00,291 --> 00:41:05,329 is that real life itself can have a mythical quality. 710 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:07,231 It's not 711 00:41:07,231 --> 00:41:10,201 just a phantasmagoric never, never land. 712 00:41:10,534 --> 00:41:13,137 No, by casting things into fantasy, 713 00:41:13,137 --> 00:41:16,140 we get a better view of reality. 714 00:41:16,807 --> 00:41:20,077 In this, we see how well Lewis had learned his lesson from that life 715 00:41:20,077 --> 00:41:23,080 changing conversation in Addison's walk back 716 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,083 in 1931. 717 00:41:29,587 --> 00:41:31,822 Lewis's influence on the Lord of the rings, 718 00:41:31,822 --> 00:41:36,327 on its author, its writing and its reception was profound. 719 00:41:37,228 --> 00:41:39,330 Although he was right to describe his role 720 00:41:39,330 --> 00:41:42,333 as that of a midwife, not a father, 721 00:41:42,399 --> 00:41:45,402 the midwifery he performed was extensive, 722 00:41:45,903 --> 00:41:48,706 possibly at times lifesaving, 723 00:41:48,706 --> 00:41:52,543 certainly health inducing and undertaken 724 00:41:52,543 --> 00:41:57,481 both while the work was in utero and when it was taking its first breaths. 725 00:41:57,481 --> 00:42:00,451 After publication. 726 00:42:02,620 --> 00:42:06,056 Tolkien owed Lewis a huge, unpayable debt, 727 00:42:07,291 --> 00:42:09,260 and when Lewis died 728 00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:13,230 just a week short of his 65th birthday, Tolkien was grief 729 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:18,002 stricken, describing his loss as an ax blow near to his roots. 730 00:42:21,171 --> 00:42:24,341 Interestingly, within a week of Lewis's death, Tolkien 731 00:42:24,341 --> 00:42:27,344 wrote to the mutual friend George Sayer, 732 00:42:28,078 --> 00:42:30,180 Sam being, 733 00:42:30,180 --> 00:42:32,950 Tolkien's fellow Catholic. 734 00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:37,321 Imagining how Lewis would now in the afterlife, 735 00:42:37,922 --> 00:42:42,026 be being reconciled with the Blessed Virgin Mary in heaven, 736 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,630 about whom Lewis had held such a low view while on earth. 737 00:42:47,431 --> 00:42:51,635 Lo, at least compared with Tolkien's devout Mary and spirituality. 738 00:42:52,503 --> 00:42:56,173 Tolkien told Sayer that according to my fashion, 739 00:42:56,173 --> 00:43:00,077 and in a remote way, this is an ingredient 740 00:43:00,144 --> 00:43:03,147 in the meeting of Gimli and Galadriel. 741 00:43:05,015 --> 00:43:06,784 Lewis and Mary. 742 00:43:06,784 --> 00:43:09,353 Gimli and Galadriel. 743 00:43:09,353 --> 00:43:11,155 Now that's a posthumous revelation 744 00:43:11,155 --> 00:43:14,592 of influence on the Lord of the rings that Lewis, I presume, did not know about 745 00:43:14,592 --> 00:43:17,595 and would not have greatly appreciated if he had. 746 00:43:20,798 --> 00:43:21,265 And Lewis 747 00:43:21,265 --> 00:43:25,402 exerted his own posthumous influence on the Lord of the rings in his last book, 748 00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:29,473 The Discarded Image An Introduction to Medieval and Renaissance 749 00:43:29,473 --> 00:43:32,476 Literature, came out in 64, the year after his death, 750 00:43:33,344 --> 00:43:36,780 and even from beyond the grave, Lewis is helping 751 00:43:36,780 --> 00:43:39,750 bring Tolkien's fictional world to people's attention. 752 00:43:40,317 --> 00:43:42,419 Let me quote you the following passage. 753 00:43:42,419 --> 00:43:45,589 No one who has read the higher kinds of medieval and Renaissance 754 00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:49,026 poetry has failed to notice the amount of solid instruction 755 00:43:49,093 --> 00:43:52,096 of science, philosophy, or history that they carry. 756 00:43:52,563 --> 00:43:54,632 At first one suspects pedantry, 757 00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:57,601 but that can hardly be the true explanation. 758 00:43:57,668 --> 00:44:00,170 Much, though, not all, of the knowledge was too common 759 00:44:00,170 --> 00:44:03,173 to reflect any particular distinction on an author. 760 00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:06,777 Henderson might expect, unjustly, to be admired for 761 00:44:06,777 --> 00:44:10,481 describing the characters of the planet so vividly, hardly for knowing them. 762 00:44:11,715 --> 00:44:13,517 The same objection holds against the view, 763 00:44:13,517 --> 00:44:17,087 which I took when, years ago I first dealt with medieval literature. 764 00:44:17,921 --> 00:44:21,058 I thought that in an age when books were few and the intellectual 765 00:44:21,058 --> 00:44:24,928 appetite sharp, that any knowledge might be welcome in any context. 766 00:44:25,562 --> 00:44:29,133 But this does not explain why the authors so gladly present knowledge, 767 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,403 which most of the audience must have possessed. 768 00:44:32,469 --> 00:44:35,873 One gets the impression that medieval people, like Professor Tolkien's hobbits, 769 00:44:36,140 --> 00:44:39,343 enjoyed books which told them what they already knew. 770 00:44:40,244 --> 00:44:41,011 Thank you very much.