[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.] I'm Samantha Shannon, I'm the author of the Bone Season series and the Roots of Chaos universe, where it started with The Priory of the Orange Tree.
It's such a versatile and flexible genre, it can mean so many different things.
I mean, you have a whole spectrum of fantasy, you know, right from magical realism all the way up to sort of big epic fantasy.
I think it's anything that exists outside the limits of physical reality, I suppose.
Um, I mean, it's very difficult to classify, like I said, you know, you can have fantasy that's set in the real world.
You can have fantasy to set in an entirely imaginary world.
But ultimately, I suppose it's anything that wouldn't be physically possible in the real world.
And then how I would distinguish it from sci fi is that I feel like sci fi is maybe something that could be possible.
Perhaps one day, maybe. Um, although I'm not an expert on the distinction between the two, but that's where I would say that it was.
That's where I say the line was. I think it can be.
I think we can certainly remember the people who came before us.
I think it's helpful to see that it is a very established genre, arguably the oldest genre that is I mean,
there's so many different folktales and legends throughout history that can definitely be classifiable as fantasy.
I think the way it can become harmful is when you keep looking back at the past as a sort of the the old guard of fantasy,
and referring to anything that came afterwards as being lesser somehow.
So, for example, if you see a modern author compared to Tolkien, for example, there's always this idea that they can't possibly be Tolkien.
You know, Tolkien's the father of the genre. He is the be all and end all.
And to even think of comparing anyone else to him is inherently wrong.
And I've seen that happen quite a lot of times, and I think that is something a little problematic about that.
It's like this idea that the older authors of the genre suffocate the sense of new growth.
Um, you know, that's not to say that I would personally compare myself to, um, Tolkien,
for example, but I think that to suggest that nobody can ever be as good as him is restrictive.
You know, we have modern authors who I think are as imaginative as Tolkien,
and it's just it's a problem to me when the past is seen as a source of, you know, the better days, the pure old days.
So I think everyone should be reading Tasha Suri. She's the author of the Burning Kingdoms trilogy, which starts with The Jasmine Throne,
which is inspired by the epics of ancient India and is just an absolutely astonishing trilogy.
Like everything about it is so well considered, from the world building to the lyrical writing style to the character development.
She's also the author of The Island The Silver Sea, which is her upcoming book.
It's about, um, nation building. How stories can feed into that is an ode to the power of stories,
but also warning of how they can be used against certain groups of people and how people who control stories control history.
Um, so I think she's brilliant. Um, I think in a sense, the fifth season is a really seminal work of fantasy.
Um, there are so many amazing new authors. Um, there's, uh, sorry, Effie, there's Kat Dunn, um, who've been around for a few years,
but there's always incredible authors coming up in the genres.
It feels like a real golden age of fantasy, like it's just an extraordinary time to be working in the genre.
Yeah. I mean, it's always interesting to see what the next trend or change or development is in the genre.
Like, obviously, romantic is the new, um, subgenre of the moment.
Um, it's interesting to see where that will go. It's also interesting to see whether it's considered somehow separate from fantasy.
So, for example, the Goodreads Choice Awards distinguishes the two because I think that they have quite different audiences in some cases.
Um, often it draws the romance audience, which is historically perhaps not the same audience as the epic fantasy audience.
So that's been really fascinating to watch develop over the last few years.
Um, it's always interesting to see things like vampire fantasy and urban fantasy coming back as well.
I feel like it goes in cycles. Um, I'd love to see more combinations of genres.
So I think that the idea of combining romance with fantasy was very fun.
Um, I combine dystopia with fantasy in my own season series, so I love seeing how fantasy can be used to interplay with other genres.
Um, and again, it's such a versatile genre. It can do that. You can combine it with most things, and it still feels feasible.
I was speculative. I suppose Mayfair falls under that broad umbrella.
I think it can be fancy.
I mean, I again, I would argue that it's perhaps more in line with my view of sci fi, where it's often very possible in a way that fantasy is.
And so, for example, The Handmaid's Tale, to me, that is a perfectly realistic scenario.
I don't really think there's anything fantastical about that.
I think, in fact, the more time goes on, the more I see The Handmaid's Tale becoming a reality.
It feels more like contemporary fiction a lot of the time with dystopia.
To me, I think the way I personally write dystopia, like I said, I combine it with fantasy in a way that wouldn't be feasible in reality.
So it's essentially about clairvoyant people being hunted by the government and the type of clairvoyance I'm writing on,
not the kind that exist in the real world. But yeah, again, it depends how you write it.
You can write fantastical dystopia, but you can also write something that is literally just our reality.
I mean, many aspects of our reality are deeply dystopian. Many dystopian novel is draw from real life.
So I would argue that it's not fantasy in the way that other subgenres would be fantastical, but speculative, certainly.
Um, it is interesting about the kind of, um, the gender fantasy, um,
because you're right that it was considered historically, you know, a women's genre.
And it's similar to how the Gothic novel, you know, women were criticised for reading those.
Um, I feel like anything women read will eventually be criticised in some way.
Anything that's popular among women, particularly young women, is often unfortunately, denigrated.
Um, but for a while, I feel that fantasy was considered more of a masculine genre.
It was seen as the domain of the male nerd, I suppose.
Um, and then you have the old guard like Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, you know, a lot of the very successful fantasy authors who were making,
like, the big money, like Brandon Sanderson, for example, George R.R. Martin.
Um, I think probably there are more female fantasy authors now.
Um, but I feel like the ones who are getting the, you know, the big adaptations of their books are still mostly men.
So, for example, you have The Wheel of Time was made by Amazon.
You know, often these big companies are going back to older fantasy rather than investing in new fantasy by women.
But now, certainly, I think especially with the advent of romance, um, it is being considered a women's genre.
I think there are a lot of women in the genre, whether on the publishing side or on the writing side.
Um, and yeah, there is a conversation happening around romance,
particularly about whether that's, uh, a worthy genre because it is being read by so many women.
Um, I feel that some men are questioning, you know, whether women can even write fantasy or whether we're just still writing romance,
which has, you know, it's the most I think it's the most financially successful genre, but it's also the most criticised, unfortunately.
Um, so, yeah, it's it's an interesting time, um, to be to be writing.
Um, I think it's great that there are so many women now, and I certainly feel comfortable as a female fantasy author.
I remember when I was first published, there was a question of whether I would only use my initials or a masculine pseudonym,
and I don't feel that so much of a conversation now.
I feel like most women do publish under their own names.
It's definitely something I've reflected on, like, would my career be different if I had to used a masculine name or if I use my initials?
Um, I think it probably would be. I think it's interesting to see the numbers of people who come to my events.
Uh, I would say 98% women, um, which is interesting.
Like, I, I feel like I write for women, I write for the female gaze,
but I'm still slightly fascinated by how few men come to my events, and I don't feel that's the same the other way around.
I think young women and women in general will read male authors,
but that does seem to be a bit of a reluctance for men to embrace fantasy written by women.
I think it's it's definitely getting it is changing a bit.
I'm noticing more men coming to my events, and there are certain places where I get more men.
So I've noticed when I go to Scotland, for example, I tend to get more men. I've no idea why that is.
It's just something I've noticed. Um, but yeah, I think it's interesting.
The men, yeah, the women seem to have primarily female audiences, and I'm not sure that goes the other way.
And I should add, I don't mind that at all. Like I said, I have no problem with being a women's author.
Um, I just, I would like I would love to know the reasons why men seem reluctant to read fantasy by women.
I personally don't think my work is sci fi.
I do know that my The Bone season was classified as sci fi by Bloomsbury for many, many years and I have seen people say the bone season is sci fi.
I think there was sci fi elements to it for sure. I mean, the bone season is an intentionally.
It's an intentional hybrid. It combines aspects of multiple genres, so mostly fantasy and dystopia.
For sure, there's some futuristic tech that you could argue is sci fi.
I think it's mostly because it's set in the near future that people think it's sci fi, and they automatically associate sci fi with futuristic things.
Therefore it's sci fi. I don't really think it is, though.
I think just there's elements, but I wouldn't personally count any of my work as sci fi.
Um, mythology, I mean. Sure.
The bone season is partly a reimagining of Hades and Pasadena, so maybe, although I don't think I would count it as within the mythology genre.
I'm not sure. I mean, can anything modern fall under the mythology genre?
I'm not really sure. Um, I always feel like it would be weird to say yes.
My work is, in fact, mythology. Um, fantasy though?
Absolutely. I just I just think I'm combining subgenres of fantasy rather than.
Yeah, I don't think it's it's not sci fi. Okay. That's an interesting question.
I mean, I could only speak from my own experience.
And when I was at Oxford, I don't know if students still say this, but they used to refer to the Oxford bubble.
This was over ten years ago. So it's very possible that phrase has fallen out of, uh, popular parlance by now.
But we always used to say the Oxford bubble and talking about the bubble and how it felt like when you were away from Oxford,
it was like you were leaving this kind of this, these walls around the city.
You just forget everything else beyond Oxford when you were studying here, because it's such an intense eight weeks of each time.
So I definitely agree with the sense that, you know, when you're there, you cannot think beyond it.
Everything in your home is just it just feels like it's so far away.
For me, I used writing as a way to balance out the intensity of studying,
so I came up with the idea for my debut novel in the summer between my first and second years at Oxford,
and then I wrote it, um, in the second year at the beginning, and that's where I got my book deal.
Um, it was it was an intense process, like I was trying to balance the degree with the book,
but at the time there was just this creativity was just flowing out of me, and I couldn't stop it.
Um, I just tended to do my uni work in the day, and then I would write in the evenings.
Um, I do think the city definitely gave me a lot of creativity.
Um, some good and some bad, strangely so. I love Oxford as a place.
I think it does inspire you, and it is a reason it's called the City of Dreaming Spires.
Um, but I when I was here, I felt very out of my depth initially, like I had come from, uh, you know,
I'd come from a state school, so I felt a little like, you know, some of my peers, they'd studied Latin and whatnot.
So I felt like I was just a little bit behind the entire time, and I was a little bit homesick and a little bit lonely.
And I generally had quite a dark.
I was in quite a dark mental state for my early time at Oxford, and it got steadily worse as I went through my degree,
and I think that is what caused me to paint Oxford as a dystopia.
But then I also had this fantasy side to it, because in my Oxford, um, it's it is still the city that it is,
you know, with all the beautiful architecture and there are aspects of beauty to it,
but there's also a lot of bad things that were happening, and that was an expression of the the feelings I had when I was here.
So I had ends up with this strange, the strange Oxford emerges that is both magical and terrifying.
Um, so for me, yes, it definitely was a source of great creativity.
Um, and I'm really glad I wrote that because it was incredibly cathartic for me.