Modern Fairies and Loathly Ladies podcast series one, Episode five Loathly Ladies.
Hello, this is Faye Hield and this is Caroline Larrington.
In the first episode in the series, we introduced our project, Modern Fairies and Loathly Ladies in this project.
We research traditional tales about fairies in the British Isles and then investigate how some contemporary musicians, writers and artists.
Re mediate or are inspired by those tales to make new works of art that speak to our modern lives.
And this. And for this series, the final podcast, we're going to talk about loathly ladies in the earliest forms of this story.
The loathly lady represents the idea of sovereignity or the right to rule a kingdom.
When you first meet her in the forest, she's ugly and difficult.
But if you grasp your opportunity and embrace her warmly, she'll transform in your arms and become beautiful.
So to winning a kingdom is hard and dangerous. But once you have it, royal rule is splendid.
This story type was adapted in the mediaeval period and then later Ballads to explore the difference between the outside and the inside.
And also importantly, the tale became part of a cultural discussion about women and agency Chaucer's wife of Bath.
There's one of the most famous retailers of this tale, but there are other versions with slightly different inflexions.
In the Ballad and Folktale, we find the story of the woman who has been transformed by her stepmother into a monstrous being.
The hero must summon up the courage to kiss her, often three times in order to disenchant her, often winning other treasures in the process.
But let's start by talking about the wife of Barth's tale,
because that's a particularly interesting one in this story, unlike most of the other versions of the tale.
The man who has to go on the quest to find out what it is that women want is a rapist and the queen and the
other ladies of the court have decided to rehabilitate him instead of having him executed for his crime.
And so he's sent off into the forest to try to find out what it is that women want.
And this means, of course, he has to talk to them and have a discussion with them,
has to treat them like other human beings in order to get some idea.
But all the women he meets tell him different things that what women really want his love or its clothes or its treasure or its beauty.
And in the end, he is in desperation to try and decide which one is the right answer.
And he is on his way back to court weighing his options when he meets a foul hag sitting in the forest.
And in fact, there have been fairies dancing nearby, which would alert him to the idea that this is no ordinary woman.
And the far hag says that she can tell him what it is that women want, but she wants a reward for it.
And he's so delighted he takes her back to the court and she tells him that what women want is sovereignty.
They want their own way. They want to be treated just as ménard treated as people with their own agency and their own power.
And when this answer is given, the ladies of the courts and the queen all are sent to it.
But then it turns out what the cost is, is that the knight must marry the foul hag.
So the marriage takes place and she eats quite a lot during the course of dinner, which is a bit embarrassing.
And when they're in bed together that night,
the lady rather gently teases the night about the fact it doesn't seem to be very keen on having sex with her.
And he says, well, it's not too surprising because you are foul and ugly and old and low born as well.
And she gives him a little lecture on not judging by appearances, but then says, look, here's the deal.
You can either have me beautiful and faithless or ugly and faithful.
And the night I sometimes think rather by accident says, well, my lady and my love and wife said, Dear, you choose.
And she says, Then I choose to be both beautiful and faithful.
Here's some of that story in the original middle English. Here's Brian McMahon reading for us.
Wife of Barth's tale. Here is the night making his choice and the ladies response.
She's now called she. All of these things tway to hand to me foul and oh,
till that day and be to yallah true humble leaf and I never yell displease an all me leaf or elles.
While hand me young and fair and take your adventure off the repair that shall be to your house by cause of me or in some other place may well be.
Now cheers your cell phone with her that she. Oh like.
This night, a visor hair man saw a sixth, but at last he said in this manner, my lady and my love and wife so dear,
I put me in your wise governance cheese of yourself, which may be most pleasance and must honour to you and me also.
I do no forced to either of the two four, as you like of it.
Suffice with me than have I get our Yale Mastery Quad.
She said I'm a tease and government as me east.
Yes, sir. His wife Quoddy. I hold it best. Kiss me, Cochi.
We'll be no longer wrath. For by my truth I will be too.
We are both. That is to say. And ye both fair and good.
In some of the other versions of the story that we find here in the wife of Barth's tale,
the choice isn't a moral choice between being beautiful and faithless or ugly and faithful.
But there's a more straightforward one in some ways of being fair by night and failed by day or file by night, fair by day.
So that's more of a public private issue, isn't it, how the man is going to be judged in public?
Does he want everybody to know that he is married to an amazingly beautiful woman or does he want to have an amazingly beautiful
woman by his side at night time and with everyone feeling sorry for him during the day because his wife is such an ugly hag?
Yes. But even in those choices, in those decisions that the gentleman has to make, he still passes the choice back onto the woman, doesn't he?
That's the key motif in this,
that he's given a really difficult decision to make and a decision that whichever he came up with would be a judge on his character.
And rather than make that decision, he would prefer to hand it to the woman to make her own choice on her life and how she might be presented.
So he's learnt the practical lesson. He learnt the theory, and he gave the right answer to the court.
But now he's got to put it into practise, which is actually saying to his wife, you're an independent woman with agency.
You have a soul as well as anybody else you decide is up to you.
And that, of course, is what unleashes the the happy ending there.
The cynic in me is perhaps wondering if it was just too hard a decision for him to make and that he probably
spent quite a lot of time trying to work out which one he would prefer before it's all going well.
That's scratching his chin. And then he eventually gives up.
Well, I think the wife of Barth's tale ex rapist is probably the one who is really something.
But in some of the other sources that Gallin, who is the most courteous and chivalrous of nights,
and I think he very quickly says, well, dear lady, you can decide. And that's exactly what we would expect for him.
There is, of course, a bit of an assumption here that the ideal is to be alive,
18 year old and beautiful lady to lie down next to the bed and gaze boldly offensive.
That is, the slightly older lady is viewed here as something so repugnant and repulsive.
There must be an inner beauty in there somewhere. Yes, it's interesting that Chaucer's version that she plays down the hideousness of the lead in.
She's just old and wrinkled and not very attractive,
whereas in some of the other stories she's actually got tusks like a hog and horrible bristly hair and
really does look monstrous at the wedding fee she's eats than so much food that the husband is thinking,
oh, my God, could I be next? In that sense. But I think it's right that there is a kind of extraordinary wish fulfilment in these stories that.
Yes, because what everybody wants is an 18 year old.
But maybe also what everybody wants to be is that 18 year old brings into question what is monstrous.
What is monster. Yep. And what is where is the true beauty?
Is it in the blonde hair and the blue eyes and the lithe figure?
Or is it the beauty of the wisdom of the older woman shines through and teaches the night how he should be thinking about women?
Well, in some of the stories that the lonely lady,
the woman has got that way because she has crossed her wicked stepmother and she's the one who transforms her.
And this is a motif in some of the ballots as well. It is.
And instead of being transformed into an older lady in this case, they tend to be a little bit more extreme and either some lovely dragon or a beast,
a real beast of some kind which terrifies people and becomes a legend in the locality
that people have to overcome their fear of the beast in order to gain some reward.
And is not any old person who can do that. It's in in one folktale.
It's the brother who comes back and rescues his sister and he knows it's his sister.
So he he plucks up the courage to kiss three times this hideous fire breathing dragon.
And she knows he's trying to help circle. She doesn't attack him in any way.
But more often, it's the lover, isn't it? He's got to have that courage. Yes.
And there's a question there of what what is the case or what is the lover trying to get?
There's often some kind of physical or skill-based or valour reward offered for kissing.
And so in the story of Campeau in, for example, she'll give a ring which will protect in any battle or there'll be a sword which will slay any enemy.
And so there is a question there as to. Can he see through there the ugliness to the beauty of the soul within.
And is you just wanting, like in the more modern stories, to kiss his frog and turn into a princess?
Or is he just after the beauty and the bounty rather than the beauty?
Well, it's kind of interesting incentive. There isn't the first kiss is scary, but he gets reward for it.
And that kind of encourages him to go on and get. The sword and the ring and the belt finally, and then she she doesn't chance.
And now we're going to hear you singing it. Hey, yo. This is the song of Campos in.
More than one, she was deal, which gave her cause to grieve more for the married.
That was Woltman, not the person she saw that night and.
She could do was when in a fit of rage, she's about to say, my goal is know my sorrows.
Joe Campbell, show to the crowd.
I'm Barack. This was Kisses three. Oh.
Twisted three times the tree. Oh.
Oh. So she then goes to cry.
Oh that's my to.
Oh that's showbiz woes. As long as those who started the sea reached the beach.
So he has taken his new day and swore she knows that today would shoot.
Oh, my. Though it has not for fear of the Kings.
So do I. Kiss me.
Listed three times around the time, the way she came singing.
Oh, Roy Hill, soldier who served tifo, then sold.
Sold. See? Wow. Bobby is wrong.
All day. But if you'll touch me, then I shall be.
Oh, very small tree.
Hey, wait. He's dead. His royal was brought breath was.
Twisted Tree. Well, I guess sticking to the.
I'm Roy Hill. She said that I've honed in the soul.
So see, your body is on John.
John Hill. They will touch me.
That's be small.
But the truth is she okay with this when he's dead?
Pins and broader. She swung again.
James. So that was parts of Kempo in that she was seeing there, Faye, and we did it,
quite a vivid description in that ballad of how transformed Isabel is by her wicked stepmother.
We do. And it paints a very vivid picture in my head of this ugly, scaly beast tied to a tree with gnarly hair and very strong breath.
There's a language there which I'm seeing rather than halitosis as a kind of fire breathing dragon, me worm.
And she's twisted with her hair, isn't she? Around the tree. And there's a kind of gradual unravelling that in this story.
At least Isabel doesn't hurt anybody, even though she does look repulsive.
I think that's key to lots of these stories that they are capable of, of huge destruction.
These animals and beasts are powerful creatures, really powerful, but they don't seem to inflict hurt or damage is very much a surface treatment.
They're evil beasts. They look like evil beasts, but they behave in the same way that their souls were before the transformation.
In some cases, they do some damage, but that tends to be after a night has failed to kiss them.
And they've been rejected. Then they might retaliate. Yes.
And there is one mediaeval story called Amenities also, which is the tale of the daughter of the king of Crete who's being transformed into a dragon.
And she lives in the cave waiting for the man who is brave enough to come along and kiss her.
But the ground in front of the cave is littered by the bones of the many knights
who've come to try this adventure and just taken one look at it and thought,
Oh, now I just can't do that. And then she lashes out and kills them.
And that, of course, discourages even further the ones who approach the cave as these bones mount up.
But in the version that we have in the tales of Sir John Mandeville that was written down in the middle of the 14th century,
there is a young man who gets so close, so close, and he's seen her in her beautiful form and he knows he just has to go in and
kiss the dragon and he fails miserably and she just lashes out and kills him.
And she's still there to this day waiting for the romance.
So if you are the right man and you happen to be in Crete, well, with cheap flights this time of year,
another ballad with a similar theme to this is The Ballad of King Henry.
Here's Brian Mong reading for us. King Henry.
Let never a man are wooing when that lacks these virtues. Three Ruth of gold, an open heart, a cup of charity.
Or it happened to King Henry as a hunting, he did ride 10, his hawk, his good greyhound, running loud down by his side.
He's chased the Rodia him before. He's chased the buck all down to his den.
And the fattest deer in all the flock. Young King Henry.
He had slain King Henry. Eight of the venison, the dogs, eight of the blood.
They lay down. They fell asleep, asleep as they were dead. It fell about the midnight hour, the hour when all men lay asleep.
Such chill winds blew around the house. The very trees did weep.
Great shaking, shook the house about shaking, split the door.
The foulest woman that ever there was came a stamping on the floor.
Her head hit the roof of the hunting lodge. Her waist you could hardly spam if a foul a woman lived.
She was not known to God or man. Oh, meet to meet a king and B, meet.
Give that thou to me. But meet that at the house lady that you're not welcome to.
So she has taken his good brown steed and all, but, oh, his heart was sore.
She's ate it up both skin and bone left nothing but hide and hair.
Oh, more meat. A king and B more meat.
Give the vow to me. What meat. That at the house lady that you're not welcome to.
So she has taken his gay goshawk and oh, but oh, his heart was sore.
She's is ated up all skin and bone left nothing but feathers. Bear oh, more meat.
King and be more meat. Give thou me what meat.
There in the house lady that you're not welcome to. So she has taken his good greyhound and.
Oh but oh his heart was sore. She's ate it up.
Both skin and bone left nothing but hide. And her.
Oh, during during a king and B drink, give thou to me what drinks there at the house lady that you're not welcome to.
So he's sewn up his horses hide and wine and good wine. He has put in.
She drank it up. She drank it down. There was no drop left in bad, bad king.
And to be bad for you and me, I do vow and I do swear tonight to lie down with thee.
Oh, take your boots off. King Henry. And let all your clothes fall for you.
And I will in one bed lie and lie next to the wall.
Oh, God forbid, says King Henry, that ever the like betide that ever a fiend that comes from hell will should stretch down by my side.
The night was gone. The day was come. The sun shone through the whole.
The fairest woman, that ad I was late twixt him on the wall.
Oh, what is this? Crise young King Henry, how long will this last with me?
And they're up, spoke the fair young lady. Even until the day you dared to be for I've met many is the gentleman who gave to me all my fellow.
Now met such a gentleman who gave to me all my will.
So that is a truly horrifying figure that King Henry has to deal with.
She's obviously female.
He recognises her as that, but she forces him to kill all of his most precious animals, all the signifiers of his royal status.
The horse and the hounds and the ghost horse. And she just crunches all them all up.
She devours them. And then she devours him as well.
And they share this bet. And he has to give himself over to her as well and be under her power there.
Yeah. I think we can assume that it's not just a question of cuddling up in bed together.
But there must be some kind of sexual activity to kind of finalise the transformation.
And it doesn't seem like a positive choice either. Like you say, he he has to hand over his slaves of status in the animals.
He wasn't choosing to bestow a fabulous meal on this lady.
He met in the woods. He was under some pressure, under her power to to deliver.
So is an unusual gender role reversal going on here?
I feel. Yep. And it's the same question of I think that we saw back in the wife of Barth's tale where the rapist
discovers what it's like to be constrained to have sex with someone he doesn't want to have sex with.
Of course, it's slightly different for men. It's much easier for them to refuse.
But the idea that they're terrified into having to have unwelcome sexual contact with the woman does kind of explain
why Chaucer decided to make his hero a rapist and does throw those questions of power dynamics into very close relief.
Perhaps it isn't. It's very much about the power and the the visual.
Of course, in this case, again, the woman becomes a beautiful woman and they stay together and they're very happy forever and ever.
So he does get his reward for treating her like a human in some way.
So we might not all suck on the blood of a guy. So he he does veto and he does lie with her.
He doesn't treat her like an animal.
And he does give her some of his choices, wine as he allows her to fill up his horses, hide, which must be enormous with wine.
And she drinks that. And you can see how he must be absolutely terrified.
See just the scale of the appetite. So this woman has got if she could eat like that and she can drink like that.
What is safe to be like with her? Well, he'll be left in the morning.
Yes. So that seems to be a common theme. Running through all these stories is they're seeing through what's in front of you to understand
what their needs are and what you can do to satisfy their needs and the power balance,
how how in their control you are or how much you can control their future fate that they're asking
something from you in order for them to return to some kind of state they would like to be.
But you have to get over your what's facing you and the fears that are facing you in order to be able to treat them with respect.
You've got to be able to look beyond the surface of the surface of the the strong breath dragon or the woman with the tusks and the bristly hair,
or this creature who can eat your horse in your hand and your goes hawks and trust that there's a real human being,
real feeling, human woman who is capable of of love and affection if you can only reach through to her.
So almost a question of not showing monstrous behaviour towards a monster yet, but kindness and treating it as you would treat any other person,
any other male person, I suspect very often is what always rewards the hero because he gets the beautiful woman.
And I guess she gets him. And so she has got somebody who is worth having,
whether it's the king who turns out to be frightened and generous or the kempo in who is
brave enough to see through her hideous monstrosity and to give her the kisses or the night,
who figures out he just needs to hand over autonomy to his wife.
These tales teach us about possibilities of change and transformation, of looking beyond the surface to see the hidden beauty beneath.
They also warn that women must be granted the same kind of autonomy that men enjoy without question, that they can be as moral and loving as any hero.
These women start off as excluded and made hateful by the society that excludes and ignores them.
But if trusted and nurtured, they can develop their full potential.
We hope you've enjoyed these podcasts about Fairies and Lonely Ladies, as second series about the Modern Fairies Project will follow in late 2019.
And that will feature the responses of our project artists to the fairy stories and themes that we've discussed in this series.
Look out for that. Follow us on Twitter at modern underscore faries.
Find the page on Facebook or take a look at our Web site. Modern faries Stocco Dot UK.
If you happen to be able to come to the stage at Gateshead, there'll be a residency with open rehearsals, an actual performance.
Of the artist's new work, and that's on April 26, 27 and 28, 1990.