1 00:00:00,030 --> 00:00:04,980 Hi everyone, welcome to the podcast from the Future of Cooling Programme of Oxford Martin School. 2 00:00:05,370 --> 00:00:08,670 I'm a fellow at the Oxford Martin School. My name is Nicole Miranda. 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,570 I'm looking into the socio technical aspects of sustainable cooling. 4 00:00:13,350 --> 00:00:18,900 We are researching active and passive technologies and how more demand will come on. 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,540 And as global warming heats up, the planet interest in expanding the solution space from our conventional air 6 00:00:24,540 --> 00:00:30,329 conditioners to other ways of cooling from shading to ponds and roofs to radiator panels, 7 00:00:30,330 --> 00:00:36,030 etc. even having ice cream. We have two in today's theory. 8 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:41,280 Professor Radhika Khosla, who is the principal investigator of the Future of Cooling Programme. 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:48,600 She is a professor at the Smith School of Enterprise and Environment and at of School of Geography, 10 00:00:49,020 --> 00:00:53,340 and she is the research director of the Oxford India Centre for Sustainable Development. 11 00:00:53,670 --> 00:00:58,590 She has extensive experience energy, climate change and development and policy. 12 00:00:59,460 --> 00:01:01,350 Apart from the future of Cooling team, 13 00:01:01,350 --> 00:01:08,730 she has also led the ClimateWorks Foundation project on climate friendly and socioeconomically productive core change. 14 00:01:09,510 --> 00:01:16,110 Radhika is a contributing author to the Sixth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, 15 00:01:16,110 --> 00:01:19,679 IPCC and the United Nations Environmental Programme. 16 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,960 The Net Emission Gaps Report. 17 00:01:23,130 --> 00:01:32,010 Her other academic affiliations are with MIT and the University of Pennsylvania and the U.S. and the Centre of Policy Research in India. 18 00:01:32,310 --> 00:01:36,840 She has been a staff scientist at the Natural Resources Defence Council in New York, 19 00:01:37,020 --> 00:01:41,879 where she helped set up the organisation's work on clean energy and climate change in 20 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:47,700 India and led research and implementation on building energy policies in Indian states. 21 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,860 She serves on government policy committees and boards of journals and book presses. 22 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,690 Welcome, Radhika. Thank you so much, Nicole. 23 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,240 So first of all, we'd like to know more about your experience on cooling. 24 00:02:02,270 --> 00:02:06,410 On the personal side, what is your connexion to cooling and how? 25 00:02:06,590 --> 00:02:14,559 Why did you decide to research this topic? It's actually you know, it's kind of an easy answer. 26 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,300 It's because I spend too much time in cases that were too hot. 27 00:02:19,630 --> 00:02:30,720 And but what was striking for me has been that, you know, so many parts of the world are, you know, beset with such extreme heat. 28 00:02:30,730 --> 00:02:35,500 And yet in many other parts of the world, including in the U.K. and for us here in Oxford, 29 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:42,729 we don't think about that as something that, you know, that one has to grapple with on an everyday basis. 30 00:02:42,730 --> 00:02:49,480 And we don't fully appreciate, as a result the energy implications, 31 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:56,440 but also like the everyday lifestyle implications and the challenges that come from living with extreme heat. 32 00:02:56,470 --> 00:03:05,230 So I think as we move towards a world where, you know, there's increased frequency and intensity of heatwaves, 33 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,760 this just seems like a really urgent issue for us to examine. 34 00:03:10,540 --> 00:03:18,400 Absolutely. And talking about the big issues and challenging Kurt, let's let's dive into those questions. 35 00:03:19,210 --> 00:03:24,970 We've seen figures from the IEA, the Energy International Energy Agency, 36 00:03:25,270 --> 00:03:31,060 saying that in the next 30 years, ten air conditioners will be sold every second. 37 00:03:31,390 --> 00:03:35,420 What consequences will that have? Is that a bad thing? 38 00:03:35,420 --> 00:03:40,690 Could be a climate. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a shocking number, right? 39 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:47,050 Ten new air conditioners, an equivalent of ten new air conditioners every second for the next 30 years. 40 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:56,829 It's both a good and a bad thing. It's a good thing because it means that a lot more people are going to have access to technologies that 41 00:03:56,830 --> 00:04:04,840 will keep them cool and that will be providing them with a form of tomo comfort that is necessary for, 42 00:04:06,010 --> 00:04:12,640 you know, for, for wellbeing. It's a bad thing because of two main reasons. 43 00:04:12,670 --> 00:04:21,850 One, it is. Air conditioners are increasingly environmentally damaging in the current form with which they are operating, 44 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:32,140 both because they use mainly energy intensive and fossil fuel based, often in most countries, electricity. 45 00:04:32,470 --> 00:04:35,830 But the magnitude of the electricity was is extremely high. 46 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:44,229 What's worse is that air conditioners also have refrigerant gases that, again, are greenhouse gases. 47 00:04:44,230 --> 00:04:52,900 And so as a result, you have the use of air conditioners leading to the release of more greenhouse gases. 48 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:58,629 That leads to a further release window for the warming of the planet and the need for more air conditioning. 49 00:04:58,630 --> 00:05:02,800 So there's this negative feedback loop that is very problematic. 50 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:12,510 The second reason why, you know, it's this IEA statistic is alarming is that in spite of the really large increase, 51 00:05:13,330 --> 00:05:21,970 other studies tell us that the gap of access to air conditioners is anywhere between 2 to 4 billion people in 2050, 52 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:29,770 which means that even though, you know, there is such a large exponential rise in air conditioning that is impending. 53 00:05:31,270 --> 00:05:35,410 2 to 4 billion people will not have access to this technology. 54 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:44,320 And as a result, for them, cooling and the provision of thermal comfort for well-being is going to continue to remain a challenge. 55 00:05:45,570 --> 00:05:54,390 Absolutely. Yeah. And on air conditioning, do you see them as part of the solution or are they on their way out? 56 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:03,030 Yeah, well, I think that, you know, we don't really have a mainstream technology that can replace air conditioners at the moment. 57 00:06:03,030 --> 00:06:10,439 So I do think that we are locked into compression air conditioning, which is not great because there are many alternatives. 58 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:19,259 And these alternatives have often existed for a long time in the form of passive cooling techniques through shading, 59 00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:26,579 ventilation, heat modulation, dissipation, or through vernacular architecture, 60 00:06:26,580 --> 00:06:36,090 which uses local ways and resources of putting together and assembling buildings and inhabited spaces, 61 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:44,670 but also through other mechanisms like lifestyles that and culture that are cooling that allow us to stay cool. 62 00:06:45,030 --> 00:06:51,359 Now, all of these are probably and they are they are not going to be enough when we're 63 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,440 looking at extremely high temperatures in the forties and even fifties now. 64 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:04,470 But it is much more the case of using a portfolio of options that focus on passive passive approaches 65 00:07:04,470 --> 00:07:12,570 first and then that and therefore really reduce the demand for air conditioning that I see as as, 66 00:07:12,750 --> 00:07:13,829 you know, as a way forward. 67 00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:22,049 And then, of course, the technology itself also has large scope to get a lot more efficient, to use much better refrigerants, 68 00:07:22,050 --> 00:07:27,690 and then to have a grid that supplies that energy to these air conditioners that is decarbonised. 69 00:07:28,850 --> 00:07:35,870 Right. So, yeah, we can see that that the grid actually is going to be really affected by all of these air conditioners. 70 00:07:36,820 --> 00:07:38,710 Mm hmm. Yeah, they're growing again. 71 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:49,810 You mentioned previously about the the s gases and how they are a big challenge and that because they're used in in this locked technology. 72 00:07:50,050 --> 00:07:56,710 What why are they such a big challenge and in the world of greenhouse gases and emissions? 73 00:07:57,610 --> 00:08:04,299 So refrigerant gases that are used in the vehicle compression technology that is, you know, 74 00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:15,940 the air conditioner in in in most homes are short lived gases and they are greenhouse gases and they have very high global warming potential, 75 00:08:16,330 --> 00:08:21,670 which means that when these gases are released into the atmosphere, 76 00:08:21,670 --> 00:08:31,720 which often happens during operations of the air conditioner caused maybe by leakage or at the end of life of an air conditioner, 77 00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:42,280 you know, at the disposal stage, these gases, I have a global warming potential that is tens of thousands of times higher than that of CO2, 78 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:49,210 and therefore can cause a very sharp increase in warming in the in the near term. 79 00:08:49,510 --> 00:08:54,069 So they have lifespans of about, you know, less than 20 years. 80 00:08:54,070 --> 00:09:03,890 But within that time frame, they have the ability to cause a very high rate of warming and therefore, ah, compound the, 81 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:11,380 the impact of, you know, that the negative impact that air conditioning has, particularly on climate change. 82 00:09:12,420 --> 00:09:17,340 Thanks, Radhika. Apart from the energy and emission challenges of air conditioners and their 83 00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:22,710 refrigerants in the programme we have recently published in Nature Sustainability, 84 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,150 The Relationship of Cooling and the Sustainable Development Goals. 85 00:09:27,510 --> 00:09:32,460 Could you give us some examples of the links between COOLING and the SDGs? 86 00:09:32,980 --> 00:09:41,700 It was very fun because it it uncovered all of these interesting things about the relationship between cooling and sustainable development. 87 00:09:42,510 --> 00:09:56,430 One interesting fact was that the word cool cooling called refrigerator freeze, none of these feature in any of the 17 goals or the 169 targets. 88 00:09:57,180 --> 00:10:04,350 And yet, you know, if we look at the relationship between the provision of cooling and achieving the goals, 89 00:10:04,650 --> 00:10:14,180 we actually find evidence of cooling being related to the achievement of each of the different 17 Sustainable Development Goals. 90 00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:19,770 So for instance, you know, some of the most obvious ones are climate action, 91 00:10:19,770 --> 00:10:28,200 because we know that cooling drives large increases in greenhouse gas emissions and because of gases that are a by-product of refrigeration. 92 00:10:29,010 --> 00:10:33,059 Another one is affordable and clean energy. 93 00:10:33,060 --> 00:10:41,760 So sustainable development goal number seven. And we know that active space cooling technologies have very large electricity demand. 94 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:55,050 Another example of how cooling is tied to a different kind of goal is that of quality education and studies show us how cognitive facilities are. 95 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:04,169 Cognitive faculties are impaired by extreme temperatures, and heat has a negative impact on productivity and learning outcomes, 96 00:11:04,170 --> 00:11:08,129 which can be mitigated by another sustainable development. 97 00:11:08,130 --> 00:11:13,830 Goal is goal number three on good health and well-being. And here, cooling is once again central. 98 00:11:13,830 --> 00:11:21,120 It reduces the health burden of severe exposure to heat, especially with the climate change impacts of of rising temperatures. 99 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:26,850 And we know more recently that cooling is essential for vaccine delivery. 100 00:11:27,180 --> 00:11:34,390 And so, again, you know, the relationship between cooling and good health and well-being is is very important. 101 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:41,010 And the last example is the sustainable development goal of zero hunger. 102 00:11:41,940 --> 00:11:48,600 And we know, again, that cooling plays a really important role in enabling food production and delivery via the cold chain, 103 00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:54,870 as well as cooling techniques that support food production in in greenhouses. 104 00:11:56,330 --> 00:11:57,190 Absolutely. 105 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:07,790 And on that vaccine, which is definitely a theme that we have been struggling at and globally, cooling has a really important part to play. 106 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:18,140 Thanks for that, Radhika. So regarding the team at the future cooling programme, how are we organised to tackle the big challenge of cooling? 107 00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:29,060 So the team is organised around different dimensions of cooling, which we consider to be a socio technical system. 108 00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:38,840 You know, there's a really good sort of workstream around technologies and the role that 109 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,880 both active and passive cooling technologies can play in this future trajectory. 110 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,960 And as most of you know, most of this is in engineering. 111 00:12:49,010 --> 00:12:56,330 There's also the work workstream without understanding cooling cultures, lifestyles. 112 00:12:57,290 --> 00:13:04,969 And that is, you know, we have geographers who are addressing this question and we have a whole workstream on understanding the 113 00:13:04,970 --> 00:13:13,060 relationship between extreme heat and health and particularly the impact of morbidity and extreme heat. 114 00:13:13,070 --> 00:13:20,420 So not just mortality, but actually examining the different ways in which heat affects human health. 115 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,700 And that is with our colleagues in the Department of Public Health. 116 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:33,140 And then also there's a stream of work around understanding the global production network of cooling. 117 00:13:33,140 --> 00:13:37,460 So, you know, where are cooling technologies mainly made? 118 00:13:37,820 --> 00:13:45,110 Where do they end up? What is the sort of life cycle of that larger industrial process? 119 00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:47,960 And where can value be gained and lost within it? 120 00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:55,400 So again, sort of colleagues, mainly more economic geographies, I'd say are are looking at that question. 121 00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:59,960 So as you can see, it's, you know, it moves from very technical to very social. 122 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,480 But the key part is that, you know, we're always in conversation with each other, 123 00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:13,070 which makes it a very a very sort of dramatic and systems way of looking at this issue. 124 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,219 Great. Thank you. And about the team, it's very interdisciplinary. 125 00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:22,280 It's very exciting to be part of it myself as well. 126 00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:31,280 And I wanted to gather from you, what do you consider are the main impacts and outputs that we've had so far as a team? 127 00:14:33,170 --> 00:14:39,170 Yeah, I mean, I think what we can say credibly is that, you know, we are putting out. 128 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:48,030 In a way, building the field around cooling to the extent that the whether these are publications 129 00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:54,090 in sort of very quantitative technological terms or very sort of qualitative. 130 00:14:54,900 --> 00:15:04,560 What we are doing is really helping understand what comprises the cooling system and how its trajectory can be shaped. 131 00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:10,559 And I think that's reflected in our you know, in our nature sustainability publication. 132 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,240 And the fact that it was on the cover is something we're all so pleased about, 133 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:22,860 but also in the way that we are able to then inform more of the public discourse around cooling, 134 00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:33,930 whether it is by being, you know, in the media or in on on television at times and also sort of informing public policy. 135 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:42,270 So, you know, we've had various interactions with policymakers who are thinking through these questions. 136 00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:51,120 And our ability to be able to share the work that we're doing with them is helpful in in informing impact. 137 00:15:52,090 --> 00:16:01,630 Hold. Could you give us a couple examples of how our flagship framework could be applied by a person? 138 00:16:02,410 --> 00:16:07,569 Yeah. So the framework, you know, has it has two or three key components. 139 00:16:07,570 --> 00:16:10,990 One is that it considers cooling at different stages. 140 00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:22,060 So it doesn't think of cooling as sort of a one as a one piece item actually divides it up into the raw materials that comprise it. 141 00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:27,820 The assemblage of these materials that that sort of things are put together, 142 00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:34,059 the activities around which this cooling technology is active or passive are used, 143 00:16:34,060 --> 00:16:38,860 and then the end of life of that particular form of providing cooling. 144 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:48,880 And then what it argues for is to say that there are five different levers of change that act on each of these four different stages of cooling. 145 00:16:49,330 --> 00:16:58,870 And those five levers of change are technologies, governance and policy, human behaviour and lifestyles, business models, 146 00:16:59,110 --> 00:17:04,150 and then infrastructure itself, because we know that infrastructure actually shapes the solution of space. 147 00:17:04,990 --> 00:17:13,210 And then you can look at the different intersections between these five levers and the four stages of cooling. 148 00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:20,409 And what you have is a number of different points of intervention points where we 149 00:17:20,410 --> 00:17:26,380 can engage with and find ways to actually change the system towards sustainability. 150 00:17:26,620 --> 00:17:35,470 So an example could be see the policy lever acting on the end of life stage, 151 00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:46,299 where regulations around end of life disposal of cooling equipments are put in place and actually implemented. 152 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:52,209 Because we know that at this point the circular economy of cooling is is quite unexamined 153 00:17:52,210 --> 00:17:58,960 and there is a lot of leakage and disposal that that takes place within the system, 154 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,590 including illegal trading, often of refrigerant gases. 155 00:18:04,180 --> 00:18:09,399 So moving on to the future of cloning, which is not only the name of our programme, 156 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:16,270 but also our vision that we want to share for a more tactical, immediate future project. 157 00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:21,340 Could you tell perhaps cooling investors that are listening to this podcast, 158 00:18:21,610 --> 00:18:27,490 what are the next three big things that need researching and financing within cooling? 159 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:39,240 Yeah, it's a great question. So I'd say that one of the first things is for us to think about cooling technologies, how we measure them, how we, 160 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:50,100 you know, sort of think about standardising technologies in a way where pooling is considered as more than just temperature. 161 00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:55,080 So moving beyond temperature as the exclusive way in which to measure cooling, 162 00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:01,020 but rather to consider all different comfort variables, whether that is humidity, radiant temperature, 163 00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:04,110 air velocity, and therefore, you know, 164 00:19:04,140 --> 00:19:14,040 sort of examining products that are both energy intensive in cooling and otherwise as a function of more than just temperature. 165 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,059 The second thing I'd say is that, you know, 166 00:19:18,060 --> 00:19:26,820 really investing in finding ways to scale passive cooling technologies is really important because like we were talking about before, 167 00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:35,910 where, you know, air conditioning is extremely energy intensive, it's environmentally damaging and it is often just unaffordable. 168 00:19:36,210 --> 00:19:46,890 So while it is really important for being able to provide some comfort in regions of extreme heat, it isn't going to be enough to solve everyone. 169 00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:54,840 And therefore what we need is to have at scale other forms of cooling that are not as energy intensive. 170 00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:02,970 And that is a whole sort of literature and history of passive cooling technologies that allow temperatures, 171 00:20:03,690 --> 00:20:09,090 you know, extremes to be reduced and the need for mechanical cooling to be reduced. 172 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:15,930 And therefore investing in passive cooling technologies of scale would be, you know, a second a second point. 173 00:20:16,590 --> 00:20:20,219 And then the third thing I'd say is that, you know, extreme heat is here to stay. 174 00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:32,100 And it's really important that societies, vulnerable communities and individuals all are equipped with a way of learning to live with it. 175 00:20:32,820 --> 00:20:43,020 So understanding the implications of that at the global level is also quite important because cities are much warmer than their surroundings already. 176 00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:50,100 So for instance, some of the work that we're doing around this is to examine the number of cooling degree 177 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:54,690 days and how those are going to change and increase as global temperatures rise. 178 00:20:54,990 --> 00:21:03,570 But essentially understanding where the hotspots of extreme heat are going to be and then thinking through the practical ways and means by which, 179 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:13,229 you know, one can learn to live with that kind of extreme heat in a manner that is not damaging to the well-being, 180 00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:18,150 the lives and livelihoods of the people who are inhabiting these regions. 181 00:21:18,810 --> 00:21:27,780 And I'd say all of this ties in also with the goal of the programme, which is not just to understand the future of cooling, but also helps shape it. 182 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:34,709 All right, fantastic. Thank you, Radhika. So in a nutshell, we need to consider that cooling is more than just temperature. 183 00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:40,500 We need to scan that passive technologies and we need to also learn to live with extreme heat. 184 00:21:41,790 --> 00:21:46,529 What is what would you see as a more strategic point of view? 185 00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:58,290 Like if we achieve cooling in a sustainable way, how would you see yourself walking through a hot city that has a sustainable cooling strategy? 186 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,060 What would it look? How would it look different than your walk than today? 187 00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:07,140 Yeah, well, I can think of, you know, some simple things. 188 00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:11,790 One is the use of a lot more smart surfaces. 189 00:22:11,790 --> 00:22:18,870 So a smart surface, as we consider it, is one that is, you know, that has high reflectivity. 190 00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:26,610 So it doesn't really absorb that much heat and it can also have evaporative cooling as part of it. 191 00:22:26,610 --> 00:22:39,599 So sort of, you know, green surfaces. So I think, you know, a sustainable cooling based walk would involve being on smart surfaces, 192 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:48,719 having shading overhead above pedestrian areas, and then also just being close to both water and green bodies. 193 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:56,100 So ensuring that, you know, there is enough of all of that to be able to provide some respite from the heat. 194 00:22:57,330 --> 00:23:04,229 Absolutely. Yes. And we already see that in certain neighbourhoods with lots of cement. 195 00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:09,330 For example, urban heat island gets exasperated them. 196 00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:18,120 Yeah. Super. Thanks for taking us through a walk through a sustainable cookie, safe city of the future. 197 00:23:19,170 --> 00:23:25,200 So apart from passive and active measures, what that will be able to see in our cities are. 198 00:23:25,260 --> 00:23:29,640 Do you think that people's mentality should change towards good coding? 199 00:23:30,420 --> 00:23:35,840 Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, technologies don't operate in isolation. 200 00:23:35,850 --> 00:23:42,239 It's about the choices we make about how to use a technology that really changes. 201 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:48,780 And it's either mind and is of, you know, a factor contributing to climate change. 202 00:23:48,780 --> 00:23:55,340 And so lifestyles have a huge role to play. I mean, we know lifestyle emissions are almost two thirds of all emissions. 203 00:23:55,350 --> 00:24:05,760 So with regards to cooling, it's really important to be able to be aware of how damaging using the air conditioner is. 204 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:14,850 I think delinking some of the more kind of early ways in which air conditioning came about, 205 00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:22,380 where the the use of an air conditioner was tied to ideas of modernism and progress and status. 206 00:24:23,370 --> 00:24:30,959 I think delinking that and sort of seeing it for its environmental reality is, you know, is helpful. 207 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:39,660 It's very difficult to do, particularly in in sort of, you know, emerging hot parts of the world, but also, you know, 208 00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:47,969 constantly making that choice about using passive non mechanical cooling based forms 209 00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:54,209 first before switching to an energy intensive air conditioning mode can be really, 210 00:24:54,210 --> 00:24:57,030 really useful sometimes it's very simple. 211 00:24:57,030 --> 00:25:06,509 It's just about having ventilation and, you know, sort of covering one's sort of body so that you don't get burnt. 212 00:25:06,510 --> 00:25:12,600 But and having said all of this changes depending on where one is and how hot it is. 213 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,260 But there is always the choice to be able to use passive forced. 214 00:25:17,950 --> 00:25:25,450 Well, thank you. Radicalise is certainly a challenging, yet necessary vision we need to achieve to decarbonise cooling. 215 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:33,910 We want to thank you for explaining the challenges and solutions in the sector and presenting our Oxford Martin School team to the world. 216 00:25:33,940 --> 00:25:43,210 Through this podcast, we've reached the end of our podcast, but looking forward to discussing other issues related to cooling through these channels. 217 00:25:43,390 --> 00:25:49,930 Please subscribe to our Future of Cooling newsletter and on our website and thanks again Radhika and to you listeners. 218 00:25:50,380 --> 00:25:52,330 Bye bye.