1 00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:16,950 So thanks very much, first to Andrew, Jeremy and Chris for inviting me as a non economic historian to participate in this set of conversations, 2 00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:24,660 and I should also point out that what I'm presenting today has come out of another series of conversations I've been having with Andrew and others, 3 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:32,040 some of whom are in the audience over the last several months as part of a project called Political Economy and Culture and Global History. 4 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:37,230 So if you're in need of Googling, things might be better to Google that rather than me. 5 00:00:37,230 --> 00:00:41,820 I'm drawing here very much on the collective work of this group. 6 00:00:41,820 --> 00:00:52,110 In response to yesterday's discussion, I want to begin by briefly situating what I'm going to say in relation to the Great Divergence debate. 7 00:00:52,110 --> 00:00:59,160 As I understand it, this debate assumes discrete, separable geographical units, which can be compared with each other. 8 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,960 One unit becomes, broadly speaking, capitalist and other remains non capitalist. 9 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:10,710 The divergence is then explained based on factors internal to each unit, and we heard about various such factors yesterday. 10 00:01:10,710 --> 00:01:16,410 The major difficulty with this for me, is that over this period, when divergence is being demonstrated, 11 00:01:16,410 --> 00:01:22,680 these different parts of the world, however we want to define them into units, were becoming more and more connected up with each other. 12 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:31,530 So that suggests that as divergence increases, the likelihood we can explain it by internal factors within each unit is decreasing. 13 00:01:31,530 --> 00:01:36,990 And I think it's this kind of consideration which led the late Emmanuel Wallerstein, 14 00:01:36,990 --> 00:01:43,410 whose name has been invoked a few times to come to the notion of a single world system 15 00:01:43,410 --> 00:01:50,640 which unified divergent areas and distribution costs and benefits unequally between them. 16 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,020 So I'm concerned in this paper with how very different if you like. 17 00:01:55,020 --> 00:02:01,710 Divergent spheres can coexist in close connexion with each other and how they can mutually reshape each other over time. 18 00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:09,000 I'm going to talk about this first, really in terms of two spheres, which I'm calling the economy and the household. 19 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:15,900 I'll start with a brief history of the categories. Look at their role within certain transitions, within the history of capitalism, 20 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:21,780 and then as a way of modelling how the two categories can coexist in close connexion with each other. 21 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:30,210 And finally, I'll suggest the possible wider salience of this kind of modelling for global history more generally as a way of addressing the issues. 22 00:02:30,210 --> 00:02:34,530 The Great Divergence debate is coming out from a rather different direction. 23 00:02:34,530 --> 00:02:47,040 So in some economics, at least a household is used as a kind of basic unit measures such as household income, as in this graph from the OECD. 24 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,910 Not very much analytical work seems to be going into defining what the household is. 25 00:02:50,910 --> 00:02:57,300 This definition that accompanies it has lots of interesting other things. 26 00:02:57,300 --> 00:03:07,380 Income net grows real, etc., but not household in one piece of the literature on this kind of definition. 27 00:03:07,380 --> 00:03:11,280 This paper by meeting Lindberg, they call it a unit, the unit, 28 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:17,010 which most closely captures resource sharing that can then be used as a base unit within economic analysis. 29 00:03:17,010 --> 00:03:18,900 But what goes on inside the household? 30 00:03:18,900 --> 00:03:25,980 This resource sharing, which includes a lot of labour, is not usually dealt with by Orthodox economic analysis, as far as I'm aware. 31 00:03:25,980 --> 00:03:29,310 So this initial polarity is where I'm starting from. 32 00:03:29,310 --> 00:03:33,750 There is this great encompassing sphere called the economy, which has its rules and norms, 33 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:39,510 and then these small but more or less universally present household spheres embedded within it, 34 00:03:39,510 --> 00:03:45,900 which act for certain purposes as what we might call economic units, but internally work according to very different norms. 35 00:03:45,900 --> 00:03:51,240 Now here, as some of you may have suspected, we encounter an etymological irony because of course, 36 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,770 the term economy derives from the Greek economy and household management. 37 00:03:55,770 --> 00:04:04,860 If we go back to Aristotle and I'm drawing here on this account by Keith Tribe, we find he defines Aristotle defines, 38 00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:11,400 although not in very much detail, something called economic techno, the house, the art of household management. 39 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:16,800 This entails the good management by the master of a household, which consists of his property, 40 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,970 which includes other members of the household, wife, children, servants and slaves. 41 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:27,510 Also, animals and importantly, land. It's basically conceived of by Aristotle, according to Tribe, as a rural household. 42 00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:32,850 It is ruled by a hierarchical order by the master who is and only could. 43 00:04:32,850 --> 00:04:37,350 A spot is the despots of the household, so it's distinct from the sphere of politics, 44 00:04:37,350 --> 00:04:42,210 the polis being an association of free men and equals for Aristotle. 45 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:48,660 But it is also ruled by a moral order, so it's destroying things from this other sphere, which he calls crematories most money getting. 46 00:04:48,660 --> 00:04:52,980 This is an amoral or immoral activity which happens outside the household. 47 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:57,420 Those are his two terms already in Hellenistic times. 48 00:04:57,420 --> 00:05:00,080 Again, following tribe, the metaphor of our economy was based. 49 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:08,990 Applied metaphorically to things other than the household with the sense of a properly governed harmonious order, the autonomy of one's own life, 50 00:05:08,990 --> 00:05:15,470 of the affairs of a city of the cosmos that is nature in early modern Europe, it begins to apply, 51 00:05:15,470 --> 00:05:22,370 be applied very often to monarchical policy with a king who enforces the moral hierarchical order. 52 00:05:22,370 --> 00:05:28,790 But from the 18th century, a new kind of metaphorical use begins to emerge by way of a familiar story, 53 00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:38,000 really of Lock Rousseau, Physicalize and Adam Smith, which maintains the idea of an internal ordering or balance in the sphere of human livelihood, 54 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:43,880 but does away with the notion that this order is actively directed in a moral and hierarchical way. 55 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:49,880 Instead, it is governed by natural law becomes an internally balanced, harmonious machine. 56 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,280 It can run itself with increasing perfection. 57 00:05:52,280 --> 00:06:00,230 If only we could be masters can be prevented from interfering with it so gradually and unevenly from the 18th to the 20th century. 58 00:06:00,230 --> 00:06:08,090 Over much of the world, this idea of a household without a master the economy becomes a dominant when it comes to just describe a sphere which, 59 00:06:08,090 --> 00:06:12,200 from the older perspective, might be seen simply as money getting as crematories. 60 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,370 Most underpinning its rise, though, is the encroachment of the sphere, 61 00:06:16,370 --> 00:06:21,920 with its new naturalistic justification onto the domain of actual households and other spheres, 62 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,120 which did not operate according to this new economic logic. 63 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,290 So more and more of the activities of human livelihood, notably labour and production, 64 00:06:30,290 --> 00:06:34,640 but also distribution etc are removed from the original economic, 65 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,980 particularly thinking here of the rural household and other morally and highly governance spheres, 66 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:45,290 and instead come to be governed by what we can now call economic rules. 67 00:06:45,290 --> 00:06:52,520 So the relative importance of these two spheres becomes, in a sense, inverted, but the household doesn't just wither away. 68 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,690 Instead, we can see that changing relationship as a mutual reshaping. 69 00:06:56,690 --> 00:07:02,690 This can be seen if we look at a few probably familiar instances from the history of capitalism. 70 00:07:02,690 --> 00:07:12,830 I'm thinking here initially of what the new economic model represents, often as relations between individuals. 71 00:07:12,830 --> 00:07:21,200 So there's a central tension which Andrew Sartori has pointed to in his book Liberalism in Empire Within Liberal, 72 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:29,930 or what he calls lock in thinking between capitalism as a set of horizontal exchange relations between reasonably equal economic actors. 73 00:07:29,930 --> 00:07:42,380 So. Like that and capitalism as providing for capital accumulation, which leads to the exploitation of the poor by the wealthy. 74 00:07:42,380 --> 00:07:46,580 What we might think of as the individual actors in this diagram, 75 00:07:46,580 --> 00:07:53,360 where in fact most often in Locke's world and in much of the history of capitalism, the heads of households. 76 00:07:53,360 --> 00:08:01,070 And as such, they were generally men. So they were masters of wives, children, slaves or servants. 77 00:08:01,070 --> 00:08:05,960 Even in the state of nature, Locke is referring to people as having servants. This, 78 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,280 I think this kind of conceptualisation illuminates many of the concepts the 79 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,510 contexts within which this kind of lock in tension can be seen as operative. 80 00:08:14,510 --> 00:08:17,660 So to take a classic example, in early 19th century England, 81 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:25,310 male handloom weavers are working with their families on the so-called domestic system, weaving at home with the assistance of family labour. 82 00:08:25,310 --> 00:08:31,490 There's great stigma attached to the new factory system, under which factory owners try to get workers initially, 83 00:08:31,490 --> 00:08:36,650 mainly women and children, to become wage labourers in large factories outside the home. 84 00:08:36,650 --> 00:08:44,780 So for a man to become a wage labourer was to lose his independence, his role as master, 85 00:08:44,780 --> 00:08:51,830 his birthright and becoming incorporated into another man's household for women and children to become incorporated wood, 86 00:08:51,830 --> 00:08:57,290 it was thought, break up the patriarchal family. One might suggest that what's being objected to here is not so much the 87 00:08:57,290 --> 00:09:02,780 accumulation of capital as of people of members of the household into another's, 88 00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:06,410 if interpreted in the older household, derive terms. 89 00:09:06,410 --> 00:09:12,650 This is what the factory system looked like and unnaturally expanded household encroaching on those of normal size. 90 00:09:12,650 --> 00:09:17,270 As it turned out, as it eventuated, a solution is reached in England and elsewhere, 91 00:09:17,270 --> 00:09:24,290 which allows wage labour in large economic units to coexist with the patriarchal family through a series of labour political struggles. 92 00:09:24,290 --> 00:09:29,390 A new norm is developed whereby a man with labour outside of the home would be paid a family wage, 93 00:09:29,390 --> 00:09:37,370 a breadwinner wage sufficient to support wife and children. A household has ceased to be a unit of production, but it remains one of consumption. 94 00:09:37,370 --> 00:09:39,320 Late wage labour gains its own dignity. 95 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:47,510 It's not regarded anymore as degrading incorporation into another household, but as a transaction in this other sphere, the sphere of the economy. 96 00:09:47,510 --> 00:09:54,140 So another way to take another example to accumulate people besides employing wage labour is to acquire slaves. 97 00:09:54,140 --> 00:10:01,760 So part of the contest, at least in the 19th century USA over slavery, can be seen in similar terms of small and large households. 98 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,110 So much of the animus against slavery amongst white people comes from the sense that the 99 00:10:06,110 --> 00:10:13,370 institution allows a few plantation owners owners to hugely enlarge their households like that, 100 00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:24,230 gaining enormous wealth as well as political influence and giving them great advantage over the other smaller households. 101 00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:30,170 So these are, you know, rural homesteads which have perhaps the the old slave or servant, but largely depends on the family, 102 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:36,950 which could otherwise exist in the sort of lock and egalitarian horizontal relations abolition of slavery 103 00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:43,730 was supposed to operate rather like antitrust laws would later on breaking up unnaturally large units. 104 00:10:43,730 --> 00:10:49,310 In another context, again, the transition from slavery to high wage labour in the British West Indies, we see another variant. 105 00:10:49,310 --> 00:10:54,530 I'm drawing here on the work of Catherine Paul in this book and other work I've seen, 106 00:10:54,530 --> 00:10:59,510 which is in progress under slavery, especially when the Atlantic slave trade is still operating. 107 00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:05,390 Masters are generally not paying very much attention to the kinship or domestic arrangements of slaves, 108 00:11:05,390 --> 00:11:09,110 slaves and notionally incorporated into these enormous households called the 109 00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:14,570 plantations with patriarchal heads who conduct economic and political transactions. 110 00:11:14,570 --> 00:11:18,380 But within these great households, the slaves actual living arrangements remained, 111 00:11:18,380 --> 00:11:25,430 in many cases, matrimonial continuing African patterns in the transition towards free labour. 112 00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:31,430 Slaves were expected to take on the role not just of individual wage workers, but also small families, 113 00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:38,240 and therefore to follow patriarchal norms and having male heads who again took on political and economic responsibilities. 114 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,990 So from that, you get again something like the Lock-In model. 115 00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:45,980 The matter of focal family recedes in favour of the patriarchal one. 116 00:11:45,980 --> 00:11:53,540 And at the same time, the sphere of the economy traumatised most comes to organise relations amongst these smaller household units. 117 00:11:53,540 --> 00:12:00,050 So this is all very quick. So far, I've been looking at transitions over time in the direction of the increasing 118 00:12:00,050 --> 00:12:07,220 importance of the economy and the decreasing importance of the household. I now want to look at the enduring condition of mixed fitness of the two, 119 00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:15,290 the household and the economy, as had spheres articulated to use an older vocabulary together. 120 00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:23,960 I will come to this later, but I will put it there for people to absorb one way of conceptualising. 121 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:30,350 This condition of articulation comes from the area where the old pattern of economy has survived most fully, which is peasant agriculture. 122 00:12:30,350 --> 00:12:31,390 This is far from a most. 123 00:12:31,390 --> 00:12:38,650 Case even today, nor is it irrelevant to the instances of transition I've just outlined or indeed those that Andreas was just talking about, 124 00:12:38,650 --> 00:12:44,680 the demand for wage labourers to have small holdings as a reserve as something to 125 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:49,930 fall back on is very familiar from the various stages of the history of capitalism. 126 00:12:49,930 --> 00:12:55,990 It's not always a question of wanting to withdraw from the sphere of the economy or money getting all together, 127 00:12:55,990 --> 00:13:01,000 but of having enough options to ensure a positive relationship with it instead of one of dependence. 128 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:09,880 So to understand. Or one way of understanding this, this kind of relationship, I'm going to look at this model elaborated by Januvia van der Plug, 129 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:16,420 an extended version of the balances proposed by Alexander Chine off in the early 20th century 130 00:13:16,420 --> 00:13:22,330 China of imbalances is supposed to be trade offs between things which are incommensurate. 131 00:13:22,330 --> 00:13:30,190 So you have quantities or qualities that are not part of a smooth, a smoothly operating economics circuit. 132 00:13:30,190 --> 00:13:36,880 And so the relationship between them is not automatic. The optimum balance has to be finely calculated between peasant farmers. 133 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,890 This is one of the balances which found a plug is describing not one of the original ones of China. 134 00:13:41,890 --> 00:13:50,470 And it's a balance between commodity and non commodity circuits. The commodity circuit is external to the farm or household unit. 135 00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:54,760 This is the involvement of this unit in the wider capitalist economy, if you like, 136 00:13:54,760 --> 00:14:01,240 the non commodity circuit is here seen as internal to the farmer household here on to collapse. 137 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:08,980 Diagram Relation A is measuring the degree of the farm households participation in the capitalist economy or its withdrawal from it. 138 00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:15,280 There's also relation be the ratio between what the farm needs to buy from this external economy and what it can sell to it. 139 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:20,840 It's not always, as I said, in the peasants farmers interest to minimise participation in the capitalist economy. 140 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:26,680 So to slide relation a right down to the bottom, but rather to seek an optimal relation, 141 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,750 be to slide it all the way along to the right that is, to sell more than they need to buy. 142 00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:35,740 In order to do this, though, and to guard against market fluctuations, etc., 143 00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:42,010 it is wise to maintain the ability to withdraw at least partially from the external commercial economy. 144 00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:45,430 If they don't, they will risk to one of two fates, 145 00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:51,700 either being absorbed into the commodity circuit entirely the internal workings of the farm coming to be organised in a 146 00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:58,630 capitalist way or being held in a long term state of dependence where they must sell to the market at almost any price. 147 00:14:58,630 --> 00:15:02,860 Being all the way along to the left of relation be labour, 148 00:15:02,860 --> 00:15:11,920 thus being remunerated at far lower rates in this internal household economy than it is in the external capitalist economy. 149 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,750 OK, I'm now going to suggest some of the wider significance of the logic expressed by this model, 150 00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:19,780 although it is drawn from the peasant farming household. 151 00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:27,130 It may help to understand other situations of relatively prolonged symbiosis between capitalistic systems and other kind of systems. 152 00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:32,710 Whether we're thinking of a large planned economy in agricultural cooperatives or a domestic household in a capitalist society. 153 00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:38,350 So to take on the example that we heard the statement about yesterday to take the ching in the 18th century, 154 00:15:38,350 --> 00:15:43,360 they don't need very much from the outside European dominated economy. They don't need or want to buy very much. 155 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:50,500 But Europeans do want to buy their tea. They become highly involved in the market in the market, but within with a strong position on relation, 156 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:56,200 be towards the right or to take a nuclear family if you like under capitalism. 157 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,440 This is the insight of, I think originally the wages for housework collective, the socialist feminist collective from the 1970s, 158 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,360 the labour done within the house were hold largely by women is remunerated at a far lower 159 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,560 rate than it would be on the external labour market because it's in this distinct sphere. 160 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,360 But they have very little autonomy to move to a non commodity form of livelihood altogether, 161 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:23,200 so they're stuck at the left hand end of relation, be quite high up on relation a and incapable of moving downwards en relation. 162 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:30,640 And therefore withdrawing from the, well, the wage labour and the market economy to a greater extent. 163 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:37,480 You could also imagine extending this kind of model to the interaction between the capitalist economy in the natural world. 164 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:44,470 That is nature as a self-sustaining system that reproduces its own conditions of existence, a circular arrow, 165 00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:51,780 if you like, and the economy as an unsustainable system that reproduces itself by leeching resources from the other. 166 00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:57,610 That's something that we could go into later. How much time do I still have? 167 00:16:57,610 --> 00:17:02,800 Four minutes? Three minutes? Okay, so I have a couple of instances of an anthropological kind. 168 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:08,650 I may only get through one of them to take very briefly. 169 00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:15,370 This study by Patricia Galloway of Choctaws in the Mississippian Shatter Zone. 170 00:17:15,370 --> 00:17:22,780 This Native American people in 17th century is conceiving of exchanges between themselves and Europeans as reciprocal, 171 00:17:22,780 --> 00:17:27,880 gift-giving between fictive kin within particular distinct spheres of exchange. 172 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,420 Anthropological notion of spheres of exchange is important here Europe. 173 00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:37,000 Particularly the English say, to trade or as gifts, which are designed to grease the wheels of trade. 174 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:48,430 The other instance is he was just mentioned actually James Ferguson, an older an older article on different spheres of economic activity in the Suta. 175 00:17:48,430 --> 00:17:54,820 Many of the men Soutine men are making a living as migrant workers in South Africa under apartheid. 176 00:17:54,820 --> 00:17:56,380 Back in the villages in the south, too, 177 00:17:56,380 --> 00:18:02,980 they are using much of the cash they get to buy cattle that very then they're then very reluctant to sell these cattle. 178 00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:06,880 Cattle act as a reserve of wealth, which is not readily available, 179 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:13,180 so it's protected from the demands of needy dependents, as well as from if you like market forces. 180 00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:16,990 It also supports a communal network of reciprocity and exchanges. 181 00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:26,800 Cattle can be lent away and gifted and maintains a certain patriarchal family on order as well from the point of view of the external economy. 182 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:32,470 The man's main role may be like migrant labourers. Their obsession with cattle may be an uneconomic indulgence, 183 00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:36,940 but from the point of view of the people who are imbued with what Ferguson calls the bovine mystique, 184 00:18:36,940 --> 00:18:44,500 the world of money getting might appear as simply a helpful convenience that allows them to amass a mass real wealth, which is in the form of cattle. 185 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:45,850 So in each of these two cases, 186 00:18:45,850 --> 00:18:55,000 the two alternative interpretations of the relationship from the two sides of these different spheres could co-exist as long as 187 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:02,050 the distinct non economic sphere can maintain its relative autonomy from the capitalist economy when it falls into dependence, 188 00:19:02,050 --> 00:19:05,230 which may be often due to the intervention of outside factors. 189 00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:11,200 Drought killing of cattle in the suitcase war writing for slaves seizure of territory In the Choctaw case, 190 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,620 this becomes precarious so the world of the economy. 191 00:19:14,620 --> 00:19:23,140 The Marsalis household takes another step forward and comes to organise another layer of relations amongst people or indeed between people and nature. 192 00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:28,450 But these are the reshapes fears are still maintained, which operate according to different logics. 193 00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:35,590 To conclude very quickly, one way of conceiving the history of capitalism on a global scale is, I think, 194 00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:42,580 as a series of these articulations or symbiosis between a capitalist sphere and these other spheres, 195 00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:50,950 the trend over time is for the sphere of money getting to play an increasingly important part at evermore granular levels of life, 196 00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:58,660 both human and non-human. The autonomous units tend to get split up into smaller ones, reshaped deprived of central functions, 197 00:19:58,660 --> 00:20:02,740 ever smaller if you like divisions of labour and of livelihood. 198 00:20:02,740 --> 00:20:09,340 But if we remember the centrality of the household, even in the highly capitalistic economy, we remember what Andreas was just talking about. 199 00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:15,490 Now this process is far from complete and far from linear throughout its history. 200 00:20:15,490 --> 00:20:23,770 The economy can be seen then as having these distinct spheres human and natural, with which it was symbiotic and into which it could expand. 201 00:20:23,770 --> 00:20:26,200 It may also be that overall, 202 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:33,370 and this is the sort of thing which Wallace was suggesting the economy could draw resources from these other spheres and offload costs onto them, 203 00:20:33,370 --> 00:20:39,910 something we might call the continued existence of primitive accumulation to refer again to undresses paper. 204 00:20:39,910 --> 00:20:46,210 We could then suggest that in the case of the natural world, at least if not of other human spheres, 205 00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:51,110 the economy itself is now coming up against a hard limit that it is incorporated so much within itself. 206 00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:55,240 There's not enough of an outside left to absorb its costs. 207 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,440 Thank you very much.