1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:06,960 Hello. My name is Elaine Charvet. I'm a doctoral researcher at the Oxford University Museum of Natural History. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:15,750 On my first day at the museum, I was given an enormous bunch of keys and told I could open every cupboard and door. 3 00:00:16,290 --> 00:00:19,200 That was one of the best days in my life. 4 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:26,490 And these podcasts I want to share with you some of the treasures I've encountered on my many forays into attics and cellars, 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:33,600 cupboards and storerooms. I've also been very privileged to meet many experts who do research, 6 00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:38,880 look after collections and the visitors, and turn the museum into a living organism. 7 00:00:39,060 --> 00:00:44,700 We can all be part of. But looking at the crowds, visiting the museum every day. 8 00:00:45,210 --> 00:00:53,190 Here's a chance to create a microcosm of nature and science, to celebrate you and biodiversity, 9 00:00:54,120 --> 00:01:03,030 but also to talk about hugely important topics such as the loss of biodiversity, the climate emergency and manmade extinctions. 10 00:01:04,110 --> 00:01:13,350 This series of podcasts takes a close look at some fascinating and surprising objects in the Oxford University Museum of Natural History. 11 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:21,720 It's a kind of fringe event to go hand in hand with a major display happening at the museum in 2022. 12 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,870 Each podcast is a journey of discovery through the nooks and crannies of the museum. 13 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,510 Talking to researchers and experts on the way, 14 00:01:30,860 --> 00:01:41,100 they will seek out the rarely seen or heard about Enigma objects in the museum and their stories scientific, historical and personal. 15 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:51,540 These objects can be specimens, natural objects, artefacts, tools, or even museum in turn, such as conservation fluids. 16 00:01:52,470 --> 00:01:58,050 What they all have in common is that they speak to us about ecology and biodiversity. 17 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,510 Both terms are linked with our constantly evolving ecological relationships. 18 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:10,950 There is no biodiversity. Is there even such a thing as biodiverse objects? 19 00:02:11,790 --> 00:02:23,380 Well, let's find out. Welcome to our first Biodiversity Objects podcast. 20 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:29,610 On display. Nature's dramas, nature's dioramas. 21 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:39,720 This one is all about biodiversity, captured and displayed, sometimes in weird and wonderful ways. 22 00:02:40,820 --> 00:02:47,390 Diorama. The name comes from the Greek, literally meaning that through which is seen. 23 00:02:48,140 --> 00:02:55,730 I like to remind myself of that because the diorama indeed acts like a lens focussing our attention. 24 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,840 But it is also a stage. Natural history. 25 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,650 Dioramas are definitely putting the drama into nature. 26 00:03:04,460 --> 00:03:09,620 It's an old fashioned term, and we tend to think of dioramas as a 19th century thing. 27 00:03:10,310 --> 00:03:14,840 But even in the 19th century, there were many different incarnations of the diorama. 28 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,970 Today, most of the museum's dioramas are in storage. 29 00:03:19,630 --> 00:03:24,460 They are often no longer seen as a good way to communicate knowledge about the natural world. 30 00:03:25,270 --> 00:03:32,200 It probably does not help that many of them are in quite bad nick or represent outdated concepts. 31 00:03:32,710 --> 00:03:35,710 And to our eyes they can look terribly kitschy. 32 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:48,450 I would say that there are two types of dioramas. One, that's the realistic diorama, the lens that tries to cram into a display box. 33 00:03:48,470 --> 00:03:54,950 Everything that we know at this point in time about a particular group of animals and their environment. 34 00:03:55,670 --> 00:04:06,300 Well, let's have a look at some in the bird store. So here we have the animals themselves as taxidermy. 35 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,910 Landscapes in the background are often very beautifully painted and the foreground. 36 00:04:11,910 --> 00:04:22,980 There are geological features, rocks or caves, dense vegetation often model in 3D from papier maché or plaster, plastic or fibreglass. 37 00:04:24,110 --> 00:04:28,610 The taxidermy animals can be arranged in very dramatic poses. 38 00:04:29,210 --> 00:04:38,030 Think, for instance, of a golden eagle crushing with enormous talons on its yellow feet, the fluffy head of a snow hare. 39 00:04:38,270 --> 00:04:44,690 It has just called. Next to it, a grey rocks with patches of snow in the shadows. 40 00:04:45,470 --> 00:04:48,170 There are splotches of red on the white. 41 00:04:49,010 --> 00:04:57,260 And if you look carefully, you can see another snow have pressed completely flat onto one white patch behind a rock, 42 00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:04,250 hiding its white fur, already starting to reveal patches of brown with a coming spring. 43 00:05:05,570 --> 00:05:09,350 To one side in a respectful distance is a raven. 44 00:05:09,890 --> 00:05:14,090 Its black feathers are shining. As a scavenger. 45 00:05:14,090 --> 00:05:19,400 It eats either carrion or benefits from predators making a kill like this one. 46 00:05:20,180 --> 00:05:26,630 Although an impressive bird, it looks small compared to the eagle, a convenient indicator of scale. 47 00:05:27,290 --> 00:05:35,180 In the background there are painted snow capped mountains and the moody skies of the Scottish Highlands. 48 00:05:36,350 --> 00:05:45,080 So captured in this diorama we have predator prey relationships, scavenger behaviour and interdependencies. 49 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:50,030 Adaptation of the snow hare, which turns white in winter. 50 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:57,950 Camouflage behaviour also of the snow hare as well as the Eagles killing techniques and anatomical details. 51 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:06,920 So for instance, on its feet, the backwards pointing digit and talon are particularly important for making the kill. 52 00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:14,480 So this digit acts like a thumb and it has a razor sharp, long equivalent of a nail. 53 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,700 And together with the opposing digit and Talon, it can grab like a hand. 54 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:27,590 And if you look closely, you can see that these two digits and claws are largest on the Eagles foot, 55 00:06:27,980 --> 00:06:32,870 and a golden Eagles claw can be well over six centimetres long. 56 00:06:34,210 --> 00:06:43,450 But there's also the habitat, the Scottish Highlands, with the particular geology and perhaps even some of the lichen mosses, 57 00:06:43,450 --> 00:06:48,430 plants specialising in this harsh nutrient poor environment. 58 00:06:50,020 --> 00:06:57,940 So all of this seems like a lot when you think about it, but is of course only the tip of the ecological iceberg. 59 00:06:58,810 --> 00:07:09,010 Despite being a lens as well as a stage, this diorama only captures the scales and phenomena that are easily visible to us. 60 00:07:10,660 --> 00:07:16,210 What about the micro-level? Clouds of midges, parasites on the hair. 61 00:07:16,270 --> 00:07:20,139 Like, for instance, ticks, parasites on the eagle. 62 00:07:20,140 --> 00:07:33,310 Like mites, microorganisms in the ground, digesting the last scraps of the dead hair or big phenomena like the weather, landslides or erosion. 63 00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:41,200 So all these complex networks may be as or even more important than what we can readily perceive. 64 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:50,800 So these are the realistic dioramas and the ones you would usually find in a trace gymnasiums. 65 00:07:51,550 --> 00:07:59,410 But there are others. These are the ones we could perhaps call creative dioramas. 66 00:08:00,010 --> 00:08:05,860 That does not necessarily mean that they are not representing current scientific knowledge accurately, 67 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,969 although some also often dating from the 19th century, 68 00:08:09,970 --> 00:08:15,549 have definitely taking the drama aspect of the diorama to extremes and are more 69 00:08:15,550 --> 00:08:20,560 about showing off stunning colours or patterns of animals and artificial groupings. 70 00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:25,960 It's all about the wow factor and stunning interior design. 71 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:34,390 In a best case scenario. These dioramas are a bit like remnants of the cabinets, of curiosities of the Enlightenment. 72 00:08:34,870 --> 00:08:44,260 And 19th century creative dioramas were usually made for grand houses and were showing off exotic destinations and wealth. 73 00:08:45,590 --> 00:08:56,000 There are several examples in storage as these dioramas are often part of larger private natural history collections that are donated to the museum. 74 00:08:56,270 --> 00:09:05,510 They often aren't most well, not most of the time, but very often seem to involve hummingbirds or other birds with beautifully coloured feathers. 75 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:15,900 Taxidermy animals are usually central to dioramas, and birds are particularly popular in the decorative variety. 76 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:23,639 The beautiful feathers evoke jewels, expensive fabrics and either hunting exploits at home using, 77 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:30,150 for instance, birds like pheasants or conjuring a tropical paradise with hunting included, of course. 78 00:09:31,330 --> 00:09:37,989 So seeing the taxidermy animals inside or outside of dioramas everywhere in natural history, museums. 79 00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:44,770 Even today I thought I'd chat to an old friend of mine who actually studied how to prepare animals for museums. 80 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:52,180 I'm curious how much of the living animal can be found in these stuffed animals and about the knowledge 81 00:09:52,180 --> 00:09:59,620 and techniques used to turn them from carcases into display objects with their own stories and histories. 82 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:06,010 This is Dr. Catherine Boomer, who's now a history of science expert at the Berlin State Library. 83 00:10:07,010 --> 00:10:10,280 In the former GDR, the German Democratic Republic. 84 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:17,410 When I learnt the profession of the taxidermist from 1985 to 87, it was a really rare profession. 85 00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:25,730 Only taught at some museums. I was strongly interested in animals, especially ornithology and museums like the Natural Canoe Museum in Berlin, 86 00:10:25,850 --> 00:10:29,480 which I knew quite well because my father was working there as a scientist. 87 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:39,110 So profession fascinated me. Multiplicity of techniques, the art aspects and the work in the museum was such a large collection of specimens. 88 00:10:39,620 --> 00:10:49,340 I asked Katrin if she could describe for us, How do you turn a living bird into a museum display specimen? 89 00:10:49,610 --> 00:10:52,880 Okay. I will try. For instance, a G. 90 00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:59,300 At first there's always the question is the specimen for exhibition of scientific collection? 91 00:11:00,020 --> 00:11:06,920 If it has to be prepared for scientific collection, I have to make a so-called bird skin, which has to be solid and light. 92 00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:11,480 It looks like a sleeping bird lying on its back and its neck extended. 93 00:11:12,830 --> 00:11:20,090 If a specimen is needed for an exhibition, the taxidermist would try and give the bird the best possible look as near to life as possible. 94 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,080 And of course, for this proposed, you have to know your species. 95 00:11:24,380 --> 00:11:30,680 How does the animal look like in life? What are the exact positions of the head, the tail, the wings? 96 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:34,520 What colour do the eyes have and how are they positioned in the head? 97 00:11:35,060 --> 00:11:39,900 And to go into the more technical side of taxidermy. Preparing the bird means skinning it. 98 00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:48,860 You should end up with a torso, but wings, legs and head removed intact torsos and discarded this all organs neatly contained inside. 99 00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:53,000 So there's no mess if you have poor, properly and very little blood. 100 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,460 Only the wings, the legs and the skull remain covered by the skin without any support of muscles. 101 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:04,700 Of course, here you have to be very careful because such preparations can easily get infested by 102 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:10,580 insects who in the end can destroy the specimen you special chemicals to avoid this. 103 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,120 I used an arsenic solution which was applied with the brush. 104 00:12:14,570 --> 00:12:23,120 Okay. Back to the skin. The limbs stabilised close to where the trout we made with the wire from the skull to the artificial made torso. 105 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,799 This torso has to have the same size and proportions as a natural body. 106 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,250 And the next step, all the wires are fixed in the artificial torso. 107 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:35,480 After all these technical steps, the most important parts are follows. 108 00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:41,940 Giving the bird its unique look by positioning it in a typical posture and form of behaviour. 109 00:12:43,340 --> 00:12:53,990 I have used the term stuffed animal before, but this doesn't sound at all like stuffing animals. 110 00:12:54,260 --> 00:13:02,540 So I asked Katrin if she thinks that the popular term stuffed animal is actually really misleading. 111 00:13:02,810 --> 00:13:10,310 Yes, of course. This term recalls an old fashioned, often unprofessional technique of literally stuffing animals, 112 00:13:10,820 --> 00:13:16,460 which often completely distort the natural proportions. You can still find this today. 113 00:13:16,820 --> 00:13:22,430 It was the proper way to has not been properly trained in the historical techniques of almost centuries. 114 00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:30,380 But if you want to create a specimen which captures the exact look anatomy, habits and the character of an animal, 115 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:36,470 you have to approach it as a lot of knowledge about the species and artistic skills. 116 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:44,750 Woops, I will definitely make sure to use the term stuffed animal only for my teddy bears. 117 00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:53,480 But one final question for Katrin. I asked her how scientific knowledge? 118 00:13:53,750 --> 00:14:06,230 To what extent did knowledge about a particular animal, its behaviour observations or even its environment play a role in preparing the taxidermy? 119 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:10,760 Without knowing anything about the animal, you can't do it. 120 00:14:10,770 --> 00:14:13,890 Taxidermy. It's a little bit like recreating the animal. 121 00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:21,209 For this, you have to know as much as possible about the species, how it moves, how it feeds, how it behaves. 122 00:14:21,210 --> 00:14:24,750 Its character, the habitat and food takes a day. 123 00:14:25,230 --> 00:14:29,220 This lovely golden brown bird with a blue speckled monitoring for this. 124 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:38,490 He is a so-called watchman of the woods because he's watching everything and gives a noisy screech of warning to the whole force in case of danger. 125 00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:44,370 And he likes to eat acorn, which he often hides or steals from other birds or even squirrels. 126 00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:50,100 That's why a taxidermy jay is often shown sitting on a bench, looking down attentively, 127 00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:55,440 watching Kristen Wiig, nosey and noisy and Cucuta in that is great. 128 00:14:56,700 --> 00:15:00,360 But dioramas without taxidermy, of course, do exist. 129 00:15:00,690 --> 00:15:11,370 Often where the animals depicted are either long extinct like dinosaurs or too small like microorganisms, or even too big like whales. 130 00:15:12,090 --> 00:15:15,480 Here, models and reconstructions come into their own. 131 00:15:16,350 --> 00:15:24,660 For instance, there are dioramas that take us to the microscopic level, showing the hidden world of tiny but vital soil organisms. 132 00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:31,290 These can be as low tech as back in the 19th century, using mainly papier maché and paints, 133 00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:36,840 all state of the art like computer generated virtual reality environments. 134 00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:43,740 There's a great example developed at the St Burke Museum of Natural History in Gurlitt's, Germany. 135 00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:46,980 Virtually shrunk to the size of a wood louse. 136 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:57,720 You're able to meet soil dwellers at their scale and pace from well-known characters such as earthworms now giants to antsy spring tails and mites. 137 00:15:58,350 --> 00:16:07,650 These animals are, in fact, 3D virtual models, with the aim to being scientifically accurate regarding scales, movement and behaviours. 138 00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:11,700 But they also convey a sense of wonder and all. 139 00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:16,290 The same framework can be applied to long extinct worlds. 140 00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:21,300 Some of you may remember the first Animals exhibition here at the Oxford Museum, 141 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:28,590 with its animated and colourful reconstructions of the first complex lifeforms on Earth reconstructed from fossils. 142 00:16:29,130 --> 00:16:33,120 But one of my favourite examples states from the 18th century, 143 00:16:33,270 --> 00:16:41,730 and it captures animals about whose life cycles there was almost as little known as of dinosaurs in the first half of the 19th century. 144 00:16:42,810 --> 00:16:49,350 It is, in fact, what I would call a series of 2D dioramas. 145 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,920 It is held in the museum's library. I guess that's a give away. 146 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:59,460 Let's have a look. Right. 147 00:17:00,090 --> 00:17:06,690 Let's go down to Florida. Some staff. 148 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:20,300 Excellent. So this has been nicely laid out for us. 149 00:17:22,610 --> 00:17:32,330 A beautiful book. And this is Maria Sibylla Marian's work, important work. 150 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:38,870 And she was an incredibly accomplished naturalist and illustrator and a pioneering entomologist. 151 00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:46,460 So sit there and have a good look at this because this is a real treat to look at. 152 00:17:47,630 --> 00:18:00,470 Marion was born in Germany in 1647, and when she was 38 she left her husband and in 1699 she travelled to Surinam and Guyana and stayed for two years. 153 00:18:01,220 --> 00:18:09,710 So scientific expeditions at this period of time were not common at all, especially not to this part of the world. 154 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:15,230 And Marion's unofficial, self-funded expedition raised many eyebrows. 155 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:25,129 A single woman travelling to the end of the world. Basically, she succeeded in discovering a whole range of previously unknown animals and plants. 156 00:18:25,130 --> 00:18:32,180 And in 1705, she published her famous work, The Metamorphosis of the Insects of Surinam. 157 00:18:32,180 --> 00:18:37,310 And this is what I'm looking at here. So let's print it. 158 00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:41,360 It's quite a heavy tome. 159 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:48,230 So this particular copy I'm looking at here in the library is very special indeed. 160 00:18:48,890 --> 00:18:52,280 So this is the 1719 Dutch edition. 161 00:18:52,640 --> 00:19:01,430 But it has been customised and individually hand-painted on the orders of its Dutch owner, the collector Johan, that I had to kill about. 162 00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:13,430 Gosh, that's a name. He had bought the loose and coloured plates and the text needs to have his special copy made and had lots of gold thrown in. 163 00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:18,310 So it's quite a lavish copy, but the frontispiece is great fun. 164 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:25,130 So this is a rather allegorical illustration, including a figure that is arguably Marianne herself, 165 00:19:25,340 --> 00:19:31,010 surrounded by half naked cherub like children, bringing her specimens of plants, insects. 166 00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:42,130 But in this particular hand-painted version here, the lady herself, as well as the children, look muddy with dirt on the legs, arms and even faces. 167 00:19:42,670 --> 00:19:46,600 So is this smudged paint or is it a tongue in cheek, 168 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:53,200 realistic touch concerning the reality of collecting in the field in an otherwise very stylised scene? 169 00:19:53,440 --> 00:20:00,850 Who knows? But most special most special of all is really what is contained in the plates. 170 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:08,110 So Marion studied insects in great detail, keeping her own life specimens and made drawings, 171 00:20:08,110 --> 00:20:13,899 showing an insect metamorphosis in which all life stages of the insects were depicted. 172 00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:17,710 So egg larva, pupa and the adult. 173 00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:29,470 So in a way you could say her work. Sometimes even one single illustration ranged from the decorative or artistic to the realistic and scientific, 174 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:34,120 fuelled by her own observations, studies, experiments and deductions. 175 00:20:35,050 --> 00:20:44,380 So insects, you can see here everywhere, insects and other animals are depicted laying their eggs, feeding or preying on each other. 176 00:20:45,010 --> 00:20:53,379 In a letter Marion did write, I was not looking for any more creatures, but only at the formation, 177 00:20:53,380 --> 00:21:00,910 propagation and metamorphosis of creatures, how one emerges from the other, the nature of the diet. 178 00:21:01,870 --> 00:21:06,460 So this is definitely not just a collector work nor just an artist. 179 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:16,209 This is definitely a scientist at work. And Marion not only noted the typical food plants of caterpillars, but also, for example, 180 00:21:16,210 --> 00:21:28,020 of a caterpillar fed exclusively on one particular plant so that there was a specialist versus the less exclusive ones feeding on a variety of plants, 181 00:21:28,030 --> 00:21:42,470 the generalists. So just like it was with the eagle and the head diorama that we saw earlier, Marion records the behaviour of prey animals. 182 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,809 In this case, it's the caterpillars instead of the hair. And when they attacked. 183 00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:53,360 So some curled up and played dead, others twist and turn to pull themselves free. 184 00:21:53,780 --> 00:22:00,500 So in her earlier book on caterpillars, Marion would record the cannibalistic behaviour of certain caterpillars as well, 185 00:22:00,890 --> 00:22:05,540 and how they were used as hosts and food by parasitic wasps. 186 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,260 So these are all food webs in action. 187 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:18,320 This here is my favourite of all the absolutely exquisite illustrations in this book. 188 00:22:18,350 --> 00:22:22,340 So this is Plate 18 of the Metamorphosis. 189 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:32,659 And of course, everyone who sees this big and bold illustration for the first time will immediately be drawn 190 00:22:32,660 --> 00:22:39,800 to the large tarantula crouching over a dead hummingbird next to its nest and its tiny eggs. 191 00:22:40,670 --> 00:22:44,090 So the hummingbird appears to be much smaller than the tarantula. 192 00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:45,830 So it's a very striking image. 193 00:22:46,220 --> 00:22:56,060 The tarantula is burying into the neck of a colourful little bird, a ruby topaz hummingbird, which is lying on its back. 194 00:22:56,810 --> 00:22:57,770 It's quite gruesome. 195 00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:10,370 And one of the tarantulas is in an ever so sinister and casual way, still sitting on the bird's nest, implying that the eggs upright as well. 196 00:23:11,210 --> 00:23:21,440 So this formidable animal is the wonderfully named pink toad tarantula, and they are indeed active tree climbers as depicted here. 197 00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:30,110 And yes, they have pink toes. The tips of their legs look a bit like they've been dipped in pink nail varnish. 198 00:23:32,170 --> 00:23:36,190 But there's so much more drama captured in the illustration site. 199 00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:46,660 And he in the corner attacking a smaller Huntsman spider and its spider links and also trying to grab a roach. 200 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,990 They are, in turn preyed upon by a second tarantula that seems to prefer smaller prey than a bird. 201 00:23:53,650 --> 00:23:57,370 Leafcutter ants are busy stripping the guava tree of its leaves. 202 00:23:57,380 --> 00:24:07,810 So there's a lot going on. Colony is gave the tarantula its scientific Latin name irony Columbia based on this 203 00:24:07,810 --> 00:24:14,350 illustration here today the this particular tarantula is called a pickle area A, 204 00:24:14,350 --> 00:24:18,160 B, Columbia and a bicolour means small bird. 205 00:24:18,940 --> 00:24:26,980 So does this refer to the prey suggested by Marion, all perhaps to the tarantula size being that of a small bird? 206 00:24:28,090 --> 00:24:36,880 Linnaeus in 1767, in his description of the pink toad, Tarantula writes that it ambushes small birds and insects. 207 00:24:37,630 --> 00:24:41,050 In fact, the spiders very rarely hunt and catch birds. 208 00:24:41,290 --> 00:24:45,010 So Marion most likely observed a tarantula eating a dead bird. 209 00:24:45,820 --> 00:24:51,310 Even to the dedicated and scientific observer drama can sometimes be irresistible. 210 00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:57,490 And in the tarantulas case, the drama became part of the animal's scientific name. 211 00:24:58,090 --> 00:25:06,490 So intriguingly, article Arias in Latin, in fact, means bird keeper, perhaps an even more sinister name, 212 00:25:06,580 --> 00:25:13,690 implying that the spider harvests the birds and the eggs, like ants, form aphids for their sugary excretions. 213 00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:23,780 In a 1773 German translation and commentary full analysis original description the tarantulas called Hummingbird Eater, 214 00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:30,830 adding that it eats mainly ounce but also attacks hummingbirds and sucks the eggs. 215 00:25:32,290 --> 00:25:38,200 It also records that A are sometimes dipped in gold and used as toothpicks. 216 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,380 Wow. I mean, poking between your teeth with tarantula fangs. 217 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:52,390 To be honest, I find people much stranger and scarier than most animal behaviour I've ever seen or read about. 218 00:25:53,440 --> 00:26:00,700 In an 1806 English edition of the work, including Linnaeus's original description of the Tarantula. 219 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,629 It is also helpfully it added that the tarantulas, 220 00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:14,230 fangs all the size of hawks talons and that it's all these can be set in the manner of glasses and used as microscopes. 221 00:26:14,620 --> 00:26:26,260 So this is not just an illustration capturing a snapshot of nature, biodiversity and ecology at a particular place at a particular point in time. 222 00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:30,610 But it also captures cultural and historical elements. 223 00:26:31,180 --> 00:26:38,169 Marion's illustration set the wheels of science in motion, leading to the scientifically accurate description, 224 00:26:38,170 --> 00:26:47,530 naming a classification of this particular tarantula, but also the wheels of human imagination and sadly, exploitation. 225 00:26:48,370 --> 00:26:58,390 I think the tarantula gets its fangs into anyone who looks at this illustration as surely as into the little hummingbird. 226 00:26:59,950 --> 00:27:02,020 See where it will take you. 227 00:27:02,470 --> 00:27:13,810 Fear or fancy curiosity to find out more arguing with the illustration, contradicting observations and data, or contributing your own, 228 00:27:14,260 --> 00:27:24,430 or just wonder and admiration for Marion's sheer artistic talent and determination to travel, 229 00:27:24,430 --> 00:27:28,720 to observe, to experiment, and to increase our knowledge. 230 00:27:28,990 --> 00:27:43,120 But it's, of course, not just pictures or representations, dioramas that can make ecology and biodiversity very clearly visible to us. 231 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,010 There are, of course, actual specimens that can do that. 232 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:53,020 And when you look closely, there are many of these objects in the museum. 233 00:27:53,680 --> 00:28:01,270 So let's go and find one. Fossils can reveal so much about a long lost environment. 234 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:09,070 The only problem is that specimens are most of the time removed from the context to be exhibited in museums. 235 00:28:09,790 --> 00:28:13,420 However, some carry that contexts with them. 236 00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:22,570 So here in the main court of the museum, I try and be a bit more quiet. 237 00:28:23,770 --> 00:28:27,610 All right. I should speak a bit more loudly because you will not be able to hear me. 238 00:28:27,610 --> 00:28:38,740 But so here this play features two bones, one fossilised, one modern, both of which have been. 239 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,150 Shoot, shoot. It turned out by Hyaenas. 240 00:28:43,660 --> 00:28:47,770 One of them in Yorkshire. Around 120,000 years ago. 241 00:28:48,610 --> 00:28:56,650 Hang on a minute. Hyaenas in Yorkshire. So William Buckland, professor of geology at Oxford, 242 00:28:56,740 --> 00:29:06,670 was able to overturn one of the most widely held beliefs of the time when in 1821 he visited Kirkdale Cave in Yorkshire. 243 00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:12,970 Bones of exotic animals like rhinos and Hyaenas have been found in Europe before, 244 00:29:13,270 --> 00:29:19,180 but the accepted explanation was that the bones were carried there by the biblical flood. 245 00:29:20,050 --> 00:29:29,950 Buckland, however, decided to take a more holistic view on the bones found in the cave and by some very close examination of 246 00:29:29,950 --> 00:29:38,830 all objects in the cave and some very clever hands on experiments which actually involved living hyaenas. 247 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:46,870 He discovered not only hyaena tooth marks on some of the other bones, but also fossilised hyaena poo. 248 00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:55,480 How exciting is that? And and this was proof that once upon a time a hyaena had lived in what is now Yorkshire, 249 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:03,070 eating and digesting large animals which have long disappeared from the British Isles and indeed Europe. 250 00:30:04,150 --> 00:30:14,980 So a wonderful contemporary lithograph shows a young Buckland crouching to enter the famous cave carrying a candle. 251 00:30:15,250 --> 00:30:25,390 Clearly greatly upsetting three or four hyaenas present, whereas one remains dreamily absorbed in gnawing a large bone. 252 00:30:26,620 --> 00:30:31,450 This is just a brilliant 2D diorama capturing an ancient. 253 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:41,420 Fauna, its food webs, but also the modern naturalist capturing the hyaenas in the act as it were. 254 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:51,980 So discovering fossils and interpreting their context is a very real form of time travel and I just love that. 255 00:30:53,760 --> 00:31:04,890 Now for some objects behind the scenes. And also, I must admit, in my own collections, I am totally obsessed with Amber. 256 00:31:05,550 --> 00:31:14,970 To me, pieces of Amber are the ultimate diorama specimens capturing ecological relationships. 257 00:31:16,170 --> 00:31:23,820 I know some people look at cat pictures and videos on the Internet to relax and to get a rush of endorphins. 258 00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:30,240 I look at macro lens pictures of the inner worlds hidden in pieces of Baltic amber. 259 00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:35,840 So Baltic animals, usually around 44 million years old. 260 00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:41,069 It is the fossilised resin of probably and now extinct tree, 261 00:31:41,070 --> 00:31:50,520 possibly a relative of the Japanese umbrella pine in the gold and orange or reddish light of the amber, 262 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,530 i.e. for instance, look at two adults locked in a tight embrace. 263 00:31:56,340 --> 00:32:00,290 They are two different species, so possibly a fight. 264 00:32:00,810 --> 00:32:06,420 Another out has been trapped next to the aphids it may have formed. 265 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,700 Insect larvae still attach to bits of their food plants. 266 00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:22,410 A chaotic bundle of crane flies and a tumble of their long legs point to maybe a mass emergence. 267 00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:26,490 A small beetle is trapped in a spider's web. 268 00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:30,180 The web is eerily luminous. 269 00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:36,420 In another piece, there is a spider actually caught in the act of building its web, 270 00:32:36,540 --> 00:32:42,330 and you can see its leg holding the spider silk issuing from its abdomen. 271 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:49,230 Speaking of spiders, my favourite species of spiders are jumping spiders. 272 00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:53,130 So jumping spiders are so tiny and feisty. 273 00:32:55,350 --> 00:33:01,650 They are full of surprises like the elaborate courtship dances some species engage in. 274 00:33:02,010 --> 00:33:06,480 But they are not just cute. They are fearsome predators. 275 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,520 Well, tiny but fearsome, often tackling prey much larger than they are. 276 00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:15,390 And this is exactly what I am looking at now. 277 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:25,050 A scene from 44 million years ago, a jumping spider measuring less than half a centimetre. 278 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,210 Going after big, juicy fly or rather to. 279 00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:37,020 There's another fly. That one is slightly more intact than the mangled one next to the spider. 280 00:33:38,490 --> 00:33:40,410 It may be mangled that flight, 281 00:33:40,410 --> 00:33:51,780 but its compound eyes are still staring with a look that one cannot resist calling startled Amber can preserve colours in an astonishing way. 282 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,250 And here it is, the eyes of the jumping spider looking at you. 283 00:33:56,250 --> 00:34:03,390 And they are red. It's incredible. I'm not sure which species it is, but it's probably now extinct. 284 00:34:04,290 --> 00:34:06,930 Jumping spiders have unique eyes. 285 00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:18,000 Their main pair of eyes are set forward, facing in many species in a flat, often hairy face, a bit like a monkey face. 286 00:34:18,450 --> 00:34:30,720 And the three remaining pairs of eyes are often wrapped around the the head, so to speak, to give the spider a near 360 degree field of vision. 287 00:34:31,470 --> 00:34:39,030 So it's an incredibly visual animal, just like us and anyone meeting a jumping spider. 288 00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:51,480 If you notice it because it's so small, you will notice that it actually looks at you and appears to to really follow you with its gaze. 289 00:34:51,510 --> 00:35:01,710 Someone has called them eight legged cats because of their habit of just observing, stalking, and then pouncing on prey. 290 00:35:01,950 --> 00:35:15,340 So this habit in this case sadly made the jumping spider a prime candidate for getting trapped in the resin, which became the amber. 291 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:24,479 So they probably saw the fly, which had got trapped in the resin and they pounced on it. 292 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:34,780 And they got themselves. If only I could spend my days looking at nothing but organisms called an amber. 293 00:35:35,230 --> 00:35:40,350 I imagine I would be the happiest person alive, actually. 294 00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:50,109 Is such a person at a museum. He has endured my curiosity and excitement and envy with incredible patience. 295 00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:55,250 And he has agreed to show us a few treasures. This is his office. 296 00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:58,450 And there is, of course, also a lab. 297 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:05,380 His name is Dr. Ricardo Perez de la Fuente, and he researches life in amber. 298 00:36:05,950 --> 00:36:12,100 And I'm particularly fascinated by his research on evolving defensive behaviours such as camouflage. 299 00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:15,399 So that is a very ecological topic. 300 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:26,100 And reminds me again of the eagle haired diorama and the Marion Caterpillars and their small relationships between plants and pollinators. 301 00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:34,390 And one of my favourite topics parasites, even parasites on dinosaur feathers can be called an amber. 302 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:45,280 There is Baltic amber, which you can sometimes find yourself on the east coast of Britain, and that is around 44 million years old. 303 00:36:46,030 --> 00:36:56,440 There is also the much older, so called Cretaceous amber, which can be around 100 million years old and that one can contain dinosaur remains. 304 00:36:57,190 --> 00:37:06,250 This, very sadly, is not the kind of amber you would find on the beach, but you can find it here in Ricardo's office. 305 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,240 Ello. Ricardo. Sorry, I'm trying to calm down. 306 00:37:12,750 --> 00:37:15,960 Thank you so much for sharing this treasures with us. 307 00:37:17,110 --> 00:37:26,620 So where is your research taking you at the moment and how are you actually looking at the needs of quite a hidden world? 308 00:37:26,970 --> 00:37:31,120 Amber, thank you for inviting me to this podcast. 309 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:32,710 It's a pleasure to be here. 310 00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:42,880 So right now, research is a bit slow because I'm mostly working on the release play project here at Oxford University myself for Natural History, 311 00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:47,530 but I'm currently studying some laser wings, 312 00:37:48,130 --> 00:37:56,260 which is a type of insect and some spiders preserved in 100 million year old amber or fossilised plant resin. 313 00:37:56,860 --> 00:38:04,600 And that amber is mostly from from Spain, from my homeland. So it's been an interesting last month. 314 00:38:04,750 --> 00:38:09,850 So this is all the tech here using, I guess, hyperbolic microscope. 315 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,560 Yes, indeed. So different types of microscopes. 316 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:25,640 So one of them are several microscopes that allows us to go high magnifications while still maintaining a 3D perspective of the samples, 317 00:38:25,660 --> 00:38:31,209 which of course, is very important when going deep into a number piece. 318 00:38:31,210 --> 00:38:34,930 Right. We also use compound microscopes in those. 319 00:38:34,930 --> 00:38:40,120 We use the 3D vision, but some details are get resolved and better. 320 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:52,210 Now, aside from microscopes, we use also use an ingenious device, a very old one actually called camera Lucy that go with the camera lucida. 321 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,820 We basically we entomologist are the few ones that are still using it. 322 00:38:58,810 --> 00:39:04,150 So it allows us to trace the shapes that we see under the microscope. 323 00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:07,900 So with one ocular, we see the sample and we don't have one. 324 00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:12,760 We see a sheet of paper that we put in here and nearby. 325 00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:17,740 And so we can actually see that we can trace the fossil. 326 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:27,010 So we when you whenever you see a drawing from an entomologist, certainly by me, we are not artists most of the time. 327 00:39:27,010 --> 00:39:36,940 We just trace the entomologists and particularly Paleo entomologists are amongst the few scientists that are still using that device. 328 00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:40,750 Really, just because it trains your eye as well, doesn't it? In a way. 329 00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:44,760 But while you're tracing, you see it properly, exact and. 330 00:39:44,770 --> 00:39:49,390 Exactly. And and it's a very good excuse to get to actually. 331 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,600 See structures and and get to understand your battle. 332 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,909 Right. Because obviously you cannot draw when what you cannot understand. 333 00:39:59,910 --> 00:40:08,850 And also, it's definitely very useful to use this microscope and go up and down in the depth of field and see the different layers. 334 00:40:08,850 --> 00:40:15,120 Exactly. And only then is when you can start, you know, kind of incorporating all those layers into your drawing. 335 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,770 Oh, I like that. But it's it's very new, very cutting edge technology. 336 00:40:19,770 --> 00:40:24,360 And, you know, you know, we yes, we we we we merge both. 337 00:40:25,470 --> 00:40:30,000 And aside from this classic techniques nowadays we have also access to a series 338 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:35,460 of new techniques that allows us to create virtual 3D models of our specimens. 339 00:40:35,970 --> 00:40:39,360 And then we can get to examine them from different angles, 340 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:46,590 even those normally hidden and even make virtual cuts of our specimens to see what's inside. 341 00:40:46,620 --> 00:40:54,419 Oh, you can section them basically. Yes. Yeah, that's good that you can do that without actually destroying. 342 00:40:54,420 --> 00:41:03,780 Absolutely. That's a that's a huge advantage of these CT scans or tomography techniques. 343 00:41:03,930 --> 00:41:07,770 Well, this is certainly better than my pocket microscope. 344 00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:11,610 You can see a lot, but there's so much more to see. 345 00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:18,780 So what are your favourite examples of ecology and biodiversity that you've observed in Amber? 346 00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:22,800 And it's a difference to what you would see in fossils preserved in rock. 347 00:41:23,340 --> 00:41:29,060 Yes. And actually that's one of the main characteristics. And, you know, special things about Amber, right? 348 00:41:29,220 --> 00:41:35,970 The racing was able to capture life almost in an instant. 349 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:45,240 Right. That makes Amber very different from other fossil first materials, like rocks because a new rocks most part of the time, 350 00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:54,000 the organisms that became fossils, they had been hanging out, so to speak, in the environment for a while. 351 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,920 Amber Gill, you get. A very small window of the past trapped inside. 352 00:41:59,930 --> 00:42:10,550 So it's definitely something that makes Amber unique right now, in the case of my experience with these sort of scenes, so to speak. 353 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:19,770 I have many that I like, but some of the closest to my heart are those entailing a baby later weeks, at least with the larvae. 354 00:42:19,790 --> 00:42:25,700 Yeah. So one of them. And that was actually something that I had the chance to study or edit, 355 00:42:25,730 --> 00:42:41,390 or maybe if there was a a lasering larva that was found preserved with a, a packet of or a cloud of tray combs surrounding the specimen. 356 00:42:41,420 --> 00:42:53,299 Now it turns out that this specimen or this later we gathered that a cloud of combs from its environment try combs, 357 00:42:53,300 --> 00:43:04,630 meaning fibres, hairs, I guess usually from plants or lichen, I can have quite beautiful shapes. 358 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:09,800 So in amber you sometimes see star shaped clumps. 359 00:43:09,980 --> 00:43:16,410 That's the right word, because they're they're quite fragile looking, but you see them floating about like underwater creatures. 360 00:43:16,430 --> 00:43:25,250 They're quite stunning. But of course, this kind of debris can be very useful and the larvae end up collecting this fluff floating about. 361 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:33,890 And that's something that is found nowadays in modern reality in extent green labelling like green list links and crate opens. 362 00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:46,070 So they actively select different types of materials from their environment, and then they hold them on their backs, 363 00:43:46,550 --> 00:44:00,080 or they get retained by special structures that are not so special shaped or have like structures that are even cooked or serrated, 364 00:44:00,140 --> 00:44:03,440 and therefore they can attach those elements. 365 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,460 Now, interestingly, it's it's it has a twofold purpose. 366 00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:15,000 It provides camouflage to approach their their prey. 367 00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:20,790 And I suspect that we know right now these larvae are printed source that cell, 368 00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:28,230 but also it provides a physical protection, a shield that can be used against their predators. 369 00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:40,020 So it's a very small, very smart solution that through our natural selection and millions of years of evolution, these insects got to acquire. 370 00:44:40,990 --> 00:44:44,700 And so it's one of my favourite examples because. 371 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:56,230 Aside from this ecological importance, we also were able to tell that these larvae were very different from their mother relatives. 372 00:44:56,620 --> 00:45:02,790 What the larvae show, any predilections and what they pick up and use. 373 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:09,100 I mean, it depends, of course, I guess, what kind of material is available in their environment. 374 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:16,030 Is this something you'd be able to observe in the late spring larvae that are caught in amber? 375 00:45:16,030 --> 00:45:18,630 Thus you're investigating? Absolutely. 376 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:32,500 And it turns out that this debris packet and that the larvae, the larva, sorry, had it on its back, it's entirely composed by these triangles. 377 00:45:32,890 --> 00:45:36,670 And these freckles have a very special morphology. They make a sick sack pattern. 378 00:45:37,330 --> 00:45:48,340 And that's why we think that they belong to a particular group of firms that are actually associated nowadays with wildfires. 379 00:45:49,390 --> 00:45:56,170 So some species, some foreign species are prone to live in environments that get burned frequently. 380 00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:01,900 Right. Actually, ferns are one of the first plants that get to colonise those areas. 381 00:46:02,380 --> 00:46:06,970 Apparently wasn't quite specific. Well, it's actually this sensitive, right? 382 00:46:06,970 --> 00:46:10,400 Because we only have one specimen most of the time. That's the case. 383 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:17,190 Right, with our findings, because chances are that we find the same species are very, very unlikely. 384 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:25,569 Right. We can both posit that. Maybe the their their issue was quite specific, right? 385 00:46:25,570 --> 00:46:33,650 Because the strikers actually make a very fluffy strike. 386 00:46:33,940 --> 00:46:38,680 So he could be very good in order to create your camouflage and protection. 387 00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:42,850 But at the same time, we found a similar larvae in other ambers that. 388 00:46:44,310 --> 00:46:53,790 Such as those from Lebanon, which are even older than the Spanish amber, that they are carrying bits of soil on their back. 389 00:46:54,540 --> 00:47:00,540 And obviously, soil is an issue less is a nobody speaking a more available material. 390 00:47:00,540 --> 00:47:09,900 Right. They use specific. Species or the tri compost, the plants or icons of a specific species right off of tree, 391 00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:15,150 or they can be more generally sticky, which they make use even if you know, different source of materials. 392 00:47:16,020 --> 00:47:19,659 One individual and I but they are using plants. 393 00:47:19,660 --> 00:47:28,410 So an insect is gathering, you know, plant material is using stones and minerals and soil. 394 00:47:28,530 --> 00:47:32,790 Yeah. So you have that real interplay between the animals they implement. 395 00:47:33,180 --> 00:47:38,010 Thank you very much. That is brilliant. Thank you. I think you've got the best job in the world. 396 00:47:38,330 --> 00:47:46,260 So I definitely something that I feel makes my my my days. 397 00:47:46,530 --> 00:47:53,430 Well, yes, you're you're surrounded by Amber, but have you have you ever found bits of Amber yourself? 398 00:47:53,630 --> 00:48:02,360 Oh, I was really lucky to find a small piece, quite reddish one on the Kent Coast earlier this year. 399 00:48:02,370 --> 00:48:06,480 That that was brilliant, amber floating water. 400 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:16,440 And of course, aside from that being a characteristic that we use to extract the extract in the field, 401 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:22,800 it also means that that the sea washes it right sufficiently on the shore. 402 00:48:23,310 --> 00:48:30,600 So I can see how finding some amber fragments when when doing a walk on the beach. 403 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:37,079 It must be a good experience I never had. I never if I've never found one myself though. 404 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:43,110 So I still need to experience that. Thank you so much, Ricardo, for this. 405 00:48:43,110 --> 00:48:54,840 A glimpse into lost worlds, but worlds that work in much the same way as today's with regard to ecological relationships and adaptations. 406 00:48:55,350 --> 00:48:58,860 So these worlds aren't really lost. 407 00:48:58,890 --> 00:49:06,180 They are still here. The players may have changed, but the rules of the game are still the same. 408 00:49:07,570 --> 00:49:16,450 We have covered quite a lot of ground from 3D dioramas from the 19th century that contain 409 00:49:16,450 --> 00:49:23,470 taxidermy to today's virtual reality reconstructions of ancient or hidden worlds. 410 00:49:24,130 --> 00:49:30,130 We have marvelled at 2D depictions of insect and plant ecosystems from the early 411 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:36,250 18th century and joined an early 19th century act of time travel through fossils, 412 00:49:36,700 --> 00:49:44,440 forensic fossils that bear the marks of their ecosystems, which are there for us to decode. 413 00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:50,470 We've also explored miniature dramas captured in many million year old Amber. 414 00:49:56,670 --> 00:50:03,300 So what are the kind of dioramas natural history museums should put on display today? 415 00:50:03,870 --> 00:50:11,640 How can we make biodiversity visible through virtual reality, through better displays, 416 00:50:12,180 --> 00:50:19,020 by looking at the details and telling the incredible stories behind specific biodiverse objects? 417 00:50:20,050 --> 00:50:30,550 How do we keep the context, the ecology of objects and specimens alive in the museum and in the visitors thoughts and imagination? 418 00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:37,000 Well, let us know your faults. And thank you so much for listening. 419 00:50:37,390 --> 00:50:43,390 I hope you enjoyed the journey and that you'll join us for the next podcast in the series.