1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:06,450 We haven't got a running order because we've been disorganised. That's my fault. 2 00:00:06,450 --> 00:00:10,650 Andrew, do you strongly want to go first? Do you mind if I do? What are your thoughts? 3 00:00:10,650 --> 00:00:15,800 I am very happy for you to kick it off. Diane and I know nothing to. 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:22,620 I said. That's perfect. Right. So many things to discuss. 5 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:31,590 But this is what I want to see in the first instance. I think what we've really shown in the past few days is that we can do this. 6 00:00:31,590 --> 00:00:36,300 We can talk to each other. We can understand one another. We can communicate. 7 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:41,430 And this is no small thing. I have run many interdisciplinary events across my career. 8 00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:51,960 And quite often you find that there's actually no common questions, no common language, no common set of ideas. 9 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:59,370 That hasn't been the experience here. My sense is that what's really striking is that actually in separate ways, 10 00:00:59,370 --> 00:01:08,580 we've all been working on similar kinds of questions and similar kinds of concerns and problems. 11 00:01:08,580 --> 00:01:19,980 And one of those that really spring to mind was beautifully highlighted by today's extraordinary papers is the extent to which this whole area of 12 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:34,890 I'm just going to condense it in the word magic has been occluded and forgotten and deeply buried in every sense and even deliberately excluded. 13 00:01:34,890 --> 00:01:40,980 It was striking that the National Trust deliberately wanted not to do witchcraft, 14 00:01:40,980 --> 00:01:49,860 deliberately wanted not to record the history of people who are collecting, which has bottles and magical artefacts and so on, 15 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:57,240 and wanted to give that job to somebody else, as if saying that the nation excluded it, 16 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:02,790 as if saying that it was antithetical to proper truth telling history. 17 00:02:02,790 --> 00:02:13,080 And yet, whatever those also been preoccupied with, again, in a diversity of ways, is that if we don't attend to these issues, 18 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:22,350 then it seems that the very act of trying to suppress or repress them produces as a natural 19 00:02:22,350 --> 00:02:32,950 phenomenon the bubbling up of pretty scary forces of who the invasive right wing is at. 20 00:02:32,950 --> 00:02:37,230 Well, in Smithey were probably the most frequently cited example, 21 00:02:37,230 --> 00:02:43,080 but we could also talk about the way academic historians working on witchcraft 22 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,670 have often not wanted to talk about the possibility of belief on either side. 23 00:02:47,670 --> 00:02:53,010 The word belief is quite distant, saying if we talk about beliefs, we imply we don't have that. 24 00:02:53,010 --> 00:03:00,600 Other people have this idea. If we don't do that work, if we don't discuss ORed, which is strange witches, 25 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:07,950 the result is actually that many people who are less responsible will create histories 26 00:03:07,950 --> 00:03:16,320 that are less factual and in a way less authentic than those we could co create with them. 27 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,460 And that might be OK if those histories were flagged as fiction. 28 00:03:20,460 --> 00:03:23,340 But it becomes problematic when they're not flagged as fiction. 29 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:34,050 It becomes problematic when there's, for example, in my own work a naive insistence that in the past God, as worshipping witches, 30 00:03:34,050 --> 00:03:43,690 exercised a wonderful matriarchy consisting entirely of benevolent midwife midwifery and were persecuted by their male Christian neighbours. 31 00:03:43,690 --> 00:03:53,940 And that's a lovely story, but it's not fact. And there's a simple sort of way in which we need to contest some of the nonfactual in order to 32 00:03:53,940 --> 00:04:00,930 establish that complexity and the intractability and the difficulty of the facts with which we work. 33 00:04:00,930 --> 00:04:07,860 And I think that that work has clearly been done by all of us in a huge variety of ways. 34 00:04:07,860 --> 00:04:14,130 And it's really striking to see people wrestling with another overall issue. 35 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:23,130 And this is really the second big theme that I drew from the presentations that I've so enjoyed over the past two days. 36 00:04:23,130 --> 00:04:28,080 And that is, how do people connect with the past? 37 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:37,810 What kinds of connexions can be formed? It could be by vast human universals like birth and death. 38 00:04:37,810 --> 00:04:43,750 And we've heard a variety of ways in which those connexions can happen. 39 00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:48,970 It could be through the movement of those large universals, through story. 40 00:04:48,970 --> 00:04:58,040 And the story is can be quite particular. We can talk about the fact that some constants move through those stories. 41 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:04,370 The figure of the which the figure of the fairy or otherworldly being the figure of various 42 00:05:04,370 --> 00:05:10,770 artefacts like stones which have recurred constantly throughout the presentations and tombs, 43 00:05:10,770 --> 00:05:18,170 ditto. And there are also some really huge variables, and all of us are trying to take account of those. 44 00:05:18,170 --> 00:05:26,330 And I've heard many of you talk about regional variations, identifying as a northerner. 45 00:05:26,330 --> 00:05:34,460 National variations. What difference does it make if your Welsh or from Northern Ireland or from the Republic? 46 00:05:34,460 --> 00:05:41,210 What is Englishness in the norm? The dominant is always less visible. 47 00:05:41,210 --> 00:05:51,740 What other kinds of ethnicities may up the multicultural layer that people now identify as part of English? 48 00:05:51,740 --> 00:05:57,560 What difference does class make? What difference do educational levels make? 49 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:02,270 And we could also talk about the many theoretical differences between us. 50 00:06:02,270 --> 00:06:11,210 The distinction between the fashion for syncretism that dominated this kind of work basically in the late 19th century with you, 51 00:06:11,210 --> 00:06:20,990 with Fraser and then Europe, and persisted really through the late 1950s with people like Robert Graves and even the poet Ted Hughes 52 00:06:20,990 --> 00:06:30,410 vs. the much more careful you could even say scrupulous kind of work that people want to do now. 53 00:06:30,410 --> 00:06:41,270 And additionally, the very active curating, whether you're curating objects or stories, words or things, 54 00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:50,060 can itself be highly problematic for some identities in relation to a narrative about imperialism, 55 00:06:50,060 --> 00:07:01,610 a narrative about an authenticity that insists loudly and vehemently that things belong to us because we paid for them. 56 00:07:01,610 --> 00:07:06,620 And this kind of visible problem, which I think is dogging most museum collections now, 57 00:07:06,620 --> 00:07:14,060 I know it's a big deal at the Pet Rivers in Oxford and then the politics within the British Isles. 58 00:07:14,060 --> 00:07:22,000 The possible English repudiation of magic has something that people in the Celtic fringes believe in or do, 59 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:30,860 and the extent to which all those kinds of problems coalesce around questions that dominate our own research. 60 00:07:30,860 --> 00:07:35,360 What are we allowed to look into? What can we get the money to look into? 61 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:42,470 What can we get published when we're finished? Those kinds of access issues and how those relate. 62 00:07:42,470 --> 00:07:44,060 So you will have gathered that? 63 00:07:44,060 --> 00:07:51,440 I have more questions than answers, and I think that's actually the perfect outcome from a fantastic event like this one. 64 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,670 I'm going to take those questions away. I'm going to get in touch with all of you. 65 00:07:55,670 --> 00:08:00,380 And I'm really excited to converse more with every single person here. 66 00:08:00,380 --> 00:08:07,990 Thank you. I think I'd just like to to echo what Dan said. 67 00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:15,010 I think it's been a real sort of meeting of minds between, you know, that the heritage participants, those from academia. 68 00:08:15,010 --> 00:08:19,570 I think it really has shown that there is more than just a dialogue. 69 00:08:19,570 --> 00:08:24,250 It's actually a meeting of minds in terms of the way that we we take this forward. 70 00:08:24,250 --> 00:08:32,890 I think from a perspective, we've been coming up this in terms of thinking how do we energise and engage more of our visitors with our sites? 71 00:08:32,890 --> 00:08:36,610 How do we how to how do we get there? 72 00:08:36,610 --> 00:08:42,330 Their interest in coming to visit us. And, you know, we want to we want to be authentic. 73 00:08:42,330 --> 00:08:50,320 We pride ourselves on authenticity. But what is the what is authentic is, you know, waves making us think again about what's authentic. 74 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:57,890 And as Susan was saying about her, how she would rethink a panel that she said 15 years, 13, 14 years ago. 75 00:08:57,890 --> 00:09:04,080 And, you know, our ideas about what what we value, the different perspectives that we value and how we, 76 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,860 you know, is do we prioritise one mode of thought over another? 77 00:09:08,860 --> 00:09:15,100 I think that's changing. And I don't think particularly links with one of our ideas with which we use for our conservation funds. 78 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:19,870 We talk about the different types of value that things have. So things have historical value. 79 00:09:19,870 --> 00:09:29,650 But we also talk about fights having communal value. That's their value to the people who live around them and how they react or respond 80 00:09:29,650 --> 00:09:33,430 to those sites and in what ways that they do that courses through the myths, 81 00:09:33,430 --> 00:09:37,750 legends and folklore that I associate with those sites. And I think for too long, 82 00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:45,050 we may be not been valuing that community value enough and not not really thinking about how local people we relate to 83 00:09:45,050 --> 00:09:50,220 the sites being having never sanity in the stories that they tell about them and the meanings that they have for them. 84 00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:55,420 So I think, you know, this idea of bringing in these people and thinking about it in the same way that we now think 85 00:09:55,420 --> 00:10:00,620 about oral history a lot and the sort of connexions that individuals have with the fight. 86 00:10:00,620 --> 00:10:05,670 And I think, you know, something that Mary said about the the myths and legends map and natural, 87 00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:09,580 the engagement that we had with that and the fact that you're going from something that 88 00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:15,220 was seen initially possibly as something just to help promote this and legends theme, 89 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:24,380 it's become something which is valued as a resource by academics and by community researchers, as well as being something which is participatory. 90 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:29,830 And I'm sure that we would be very glad to be allowed to continue having that as that, 91 00:10:29,830 --> 00:10:36,250 because those people could argue if it wasn't for the fact that the logistics of actually maintaining that, but it's still being left out. 92 00:10:36,250 --> 00:10:45,790 Right. So I just think this is something that we want to continue the a conversation and see how we can use this opportunity to bring some 93 00:10:45,790 --> 00:10:52,470 of these stories from the academic spear to bear on our site so that we can actually help tell more interesting stories of them. 94 00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:58,120 I think those are locally the floor now for anyone who's got things to contribute. 95 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,140 Thanks, Andrea. I'm going to go straight to Mary, if that's if that's if that's possible. 96 00:11:03,140 --> 00:11:13,080 Well, I think it's a really meaty and interesting question. OK, I hope this isn't too problematic the question, 97 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,750 but I think it's always good to ask ourselves about these things frequently, especially in some heritage people. 98 00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:22,320 Whenever. And that's in response to Diane's excellent comments. 99 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,960 And I think this roundtable might be historic. Suppression of magic heritage sites, 100 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:35,320 the way it's been suppressed maybe suggests a kind of moral moral guardianship role that heritage organisations and academics 101 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:43,890 as well have kind of imagined themselves as taking when it comes to managing stories associated with significant sites. 102 00:11:43,890 --> 00:11:45,720 And then, I guess, like more problematically, 103 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:53,370 potentially all the questions that we are actually asking about managing folklore at certain sites such as Whalen's Smithee, 104 00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:58,620 in order to avoid problematic iterations of folklore cropping up in the gaps. 105 00:11:58,620 --> 00:12:00,330 Are those kinds of questions. 106 00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:13,460 Also maybe falling into the same tendencies that we identify in those historic kind of suppression of magical narratives that science? 107 00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:23,390 Really interesting. I think I should probably leave someone from the heritage side to answer the first part of your question, Mary. 108 00:12:23,390 --> 00:12:33,890 I think there there. There is no clean or neat way to avoid that large questions that you raise. 109 00:12:33,890 --> 00:12:48,900 It's true that. It's impossible to engage with folklore and particularly the folklore of the past without risking sounding. 110 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:58,200 Problematic in a huge range of ways. One way is that the sort of intrinsic post enlightenment way that we talk about 111 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,880 the past and I spoke briefly in my comments about the use of the word belief, 112 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:08,760 and I'm thinking now of that fantastic thing, Neal Pryce says in his new book about the Vikings. 113 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:14,940 Actually, the Vikings didn't have beliefs. They had knowledge. You don't think of your own beliefs as beliefs like that. 114 00:13:14,940 --> 00:13:16,890 You think of them as knowledge. 115 00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:25,470 And so the very fact that we sort of distance ourselves from you, which believes terribly sad all over here, that we're here, rational, sensible. 116 00:13:25,470 --> 00:13:33,900 There's always a creepily superior aspect that intrinsically places the researcher above the things studied. 117 00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:41,350 And it's sort of difficult to escape it. I totally see the. 118 00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:47,890 Andrew, did you want to comment on the other half of Mary's question? Just because it was about heritage and yeah, 119 00:13:47,890 --> 00:13:52,540 about the idea of moral guardianship and the idea of sort of being the superior 120 00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:57,650 sort of guardian overseeing what's acceptable and what's not acceptable, 121 00:13:57,650 --> 00:14:07,210 I suppose, in the sense that we always have to be mindful when we're writing our panels in terms of trying to calm down people's assumable. 122 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:14,710 But writing is the official narrative of the site, because it's where we're with we're telling it as it is. 123 00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:16,540 There's always different perspectives, aren't there? 124 00:14:16,540 --> 00:14:23,050 One in five when you've got 400 or so a 200 words or a 100 words or whatever it is to write something, 125 00:14:23,050 --> 00:14:28,480 then actually we to convey the complexity and nuances of an argument is often quite difficult. 126 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,170 And you have to hedge your bets with words like probably and things like that. 127 00:14:32,170 --> 00:14:38,020 But in terms I think we are changing in the way that we. 128 00:14:38,020 --> 00:14:49,290 The way that we would view. I mean, I think traditionally we have had this very much this this concept of giving the rational archaeological, 129 00:14:49,290 --> 00:14:59,070 you know, sort of narrative which doesn't have space for or for these sort of more sort of folklorist beliefs or whatever. 130 00:14:59,070 --> 00:15:04,120 I think that's changing. But it is extensive. 131 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:13,140 The way that we we deal with our interpretation is that things move slowly because we only we only install solar panels in a given year. 132 00:15:13,140 --> 00:15:18,670 So it may be that when when you visit a particular site, you don't notice the change takes away. 133 00:15:18,670 --> 00:15:26,830 But I have no idea whether whether we would as Susan suggested, we tend to wait for the review panel. 134 00:15:26,830 --> 00:15:35,460 I mean, it would seem something that may well be appropriate, but when we when we get that site come up for having a new panel put onto it. 135 00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:42,010 So I think we can. Yeah. I mean, things like the legends map now, 136 00:15:42,010 --> 00:15:50,680 which is the other thing in a way that we have started adding things to Pevar online content to reflect things like the impact on 137 00:15:50,680 --> 00:16:00,010 Babri and where we were going through to sort of our site panels to make sure that they do reflect the current thoughts in that area, 138 00:16:00,010 --> 00:16:04,180 which may be different than when that when that text was originally written. I think similarly in this area, 139 00:16:04,180 --> 00:16:09,820 there'd be no reason why we shouldn't edit some of our final text or online content 140 00:16:09,820 --> 00:16:14,960 to it to reflect these different perspectives that are not currently present. It's just a jump in it. 141 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,040 I mean, I think, you know, panels are important, but I suspect most people don't really read them anyway. 142 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:28,520 So I wonder whether there's a there's a there's probably a lot more we can be done there can be done through our education programmes, 143 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:37,340 but also through kind of projects that could create and involve other people in what is important about this site. 144 00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:39,890 You know, whether that's local people, whether that's particular interest groups, 145 00:16:39,890 --> 00:16:43,430 whether that's a particular communities that we want to reach out to. 146 00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:49,250 I think co creation is is something we have to really take seriously, particularly when we're thinking about large projects. 147 00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:53,520 I'm sure Sally's thinking about lots of ways of engaging people in states help. 148 00:16:53,520 --> 00:17:00,310 Yet, to my mind, I think in the past, a lot of heritage interpretation of management has been done in a very closed, insular way. 149 00:17:00,310 --> 00:17:07,880 And that's got to change. And we have to look out a lot more. Yeah, it's going to come in as well. 150 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:14,800 Also, if you think I mean, some are just going back to the original question, 151 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,100 I think there's something here about the history of the concept of a notion of 152 00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:22,690 heritage itself and how it's formulated in the 19th century and conservation as well. 153 00:17:22,690 --> 00:17:29,230 And now the National Trust was actually set up to provide open spaces for people not to buy Tavia, 154 00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:34,720 Helen and her co-founders not really thinking about sort of house and collections. 155 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,890 And some of that was quite ad hoc, how that came to be. 156 00:17:38,890 --> 00:17:44,560 And I suppose that then the kind of idea about preserving things in aspic, you know, 157 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:50,230 some of that came from some of them it as 19th century sort of heritage ideas. 158 00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:57,610 So, you know, this is kind of bringing in if belief and and so is it more intangible ideas? 159 00:17:57,610 --> 00:18:06,400 Is is something that was I think there is something around kind of ideas about morality and guardianship of what you know, 160 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:14,220 what heritage is and can be. But also because it's very it can be very problematic, as we know. 161 00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:18,220 And, you know, Andrew was just alluding to this, you know. 162 00:18:18,220 --> 00:18:22,690 I mean, you can mazur's the National Trust knows quite well at the moment. 163 00:18:22,690 --> 00:18:28,210 If you start adding multiple layers to interpretation, you do get backlash. 164 00:18:28,210 --> 00:18:37,600 And it can be really, really difficult to engage with. Say something very practical about this and how an organisation weathers those attacks. 165 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:44,010 But I think that there's certainly lots of opportunities for multiple narratives such as these in the digital space 166 00:18:44,010 --> 00:18:49,990 and perhaps thinking about moving away from site interpretation where you just can't present everything all at once. 167 00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:56,800 It's impossible. And thinking about how we use digital space, both in terms of access, in terms of what Susan was talking about, 168 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:03,790 co creation, co curation, crowdsourcing, which clearly English heritage done brilliantly well with this map. 169 00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:08,170 And it's something we really want to look at is something we're doing at the moment. 170 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:18,190 We've been doing it Catalyst and Hall and the Easton Museum there, and not so much crowd sourcing, but going out to source communities. 171 00:19:18,190 --> 00:19:23,920 That's really important, especially when you're dealing with non Western areas, collections and places, 172 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:29,050 but also that can be really important for local collections and local places that night. 173 00:19:29,050 --> 00:19:38,110 The nature of landscapes. So I miss all sorts of different approaches, but I definitely think that we need to inhabit digital spaces more effectively. 174 00:19:38,110 --> 00:19:40,710 Fantastic. And, Jack, you were about to come in. 175 00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:49,510 It's a related question, and that is the institutions that look after these these things and the communication on non communication between them. 176 00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:53,560 I think Jenny noted something that when we talk about the British Isles, 177 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:59,500 it kind of includes Ireland and includes Ireland as if somehow it's part of something, 178 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:07,540 a geographical unity or part of a cultural unity that it isn't Celts is is a similar is a similar sort of thing. 179 00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:11,800 And again, it's just something that I think and Diane mentioned that, you know, 180 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:17,560 the different perspectives from Wales, for example, Kartu does things very, very, very differently. 181 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:23,350 And as we have been recorded, I think I will just leave it at that. You know, what kind of. 182 00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:29,140 Of all there possibilities for the different institutions to communicate with with with one another. 183 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:35,410 And clearly, I think English Heritage and the National Trust seem to be doing so. 184 00:20:35,410 --> 00:20:45,160 And unfortunately, hopefully Scotland, Scotland will as well, even though Stefan won't be able to sort of join us literally or virtually. 185 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,870 So it's just kind of throwing something out. 186 00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:58,820 I'm afraid to kind of another possible problem in that with all of the problems of interpretation, there's also a problem of communication as well. 187 00:20:58,820 --> 00:21:05,770 Very much so. And any any colleagues like to like to respond to that immediate, immediate point. 188 00:21:05,770 --> 00:21:12,440 Susan, know unmuted yourself, which is a good sign that she's going to bring in Andrea's point in the chat, 189 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:18,140 which is about the sites that are not looked after by heritage organisations. 190 00:21:18,140 --> 00:21:22,820 And I met this morning mentioned about acquisition of properties. But it's actually something happens very rarely, 191 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:29,400 at least for our organisation and about how we we kind of map and record the hidden sites as they were. 192 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:36,980 And that was only on my screen. And I thought it was really interesting point about how how any funding can be found for that and any kind of, 193 00:21:36,980 --> 00:21:43,020 you know, any of the skills of all of the people in the room can be brought to kind of highlight those places as well. 194 00:21:43,020 --> 00:21:47,660 But just to say that, I mean, obviously, heritage organisations do talk to each other an awful lot, 195 00:21:47,660 --> 00:21:52,190 but we are also really small and really underfunded and really pressed for time. 196 00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:56,570 So in a way, for a like this where we can actually get together with people across different 197 00:21:56,570 --> 00:22:01,310 organisations and boards is exactly what the purpose of that that sort of went. 198 00:22:01,310 --> 00:22:04,790 Say you're sorry. Well, this is not easy. Right? 199 00:22:04,790 --> 00:22:10,310 And the feedback in big capital letters, our funders would be delighted to have had that. 200 00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:13,850 I am a diehard. You're about to say come in. 201 00:22:13,850 --> 00:22:23,930 I just wanted to say indeed, it's actually really intriguing that yesterday we heard from Liza Tallas about some sites that I would adore to visit. 202 00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:32,480 I would have bitten the hand off anyone who wanted to take me to an unknown Welsh witch's cottage, but I didn't even know it was there. 203 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:39,920 So, I mean, in a way, they're all so close to our ability to get to know one another, to assimilate one another's work, 204 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:46,430 to discover and rediscover all kinds of aspects of what we collectively do 205 00:22:46,430 --> 00:22:52,980 that we haven't fully known about or fully integrated into our own approaches. 206 00:22:52,980 --> 00:23:01,370 And I think in that sense, it's really important that events like this continue to happen, 207 00:23:01,370 --> 00:23:11,860 because it's in this way that we can make progress with those knotty, difficult questions that all of us are trying to address. 208 00:23:11,860 --> 00:23:16,930 So that's my last word. I was going to Ardino, in a sense, 209 00:23:16,930 --> 00:23:23,260 the way that the sites in the English Heritage Collection were were assembled very much as Asani to seeing with the National Trust sites. 210 00:23:23,260 --> 00:23:27,310 It was by people who were not thinking about these sort of things and these sort of ideas. 211 00:23:27,310 --> 00:23:34,840 They were they were very much thinking long lines of classical categories of archaeological sites and and arts, 212 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,950 artistic and architectural features that they valued. 213 00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:45,040 And that was why those sites were selected. Possibly why some of these other sites, such as those that Lisa mentioned, 214 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:51,490 are not in the historic collect in the English heritage or the National Trust collection because those things were not valued at that time. 215 00:23:51,490 --> 00:23:55,960 And maybe it isn't a reason for what Matt said this morning. 216 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:02,030 We need to sort of barium widen the range of sites we consider part of our national collection. 217 00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:14,840 And it's a good marker for that, as well as some of the industrial or whatever sites that he mentioned, those these types of sites as well. 218 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:23,220 Lit. Well, I think after two days of really, really wide ranging, intense, exciting, 219 00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:32,200 intriguing and thoroughly rewarding conversation, I think we should draw it to a close there in terms of what happens next. 220 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,860 I'll pass Diane in a second in terms of the immediate things that happened next. 221 00:24:37,860 --> 00:24:44,610 We have recorded the presentation so they will be added to down into a podcast form. 222 00:24:44,610 --> 00:24:45,690 All of the contributors, 223 00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:53,340 you will have a series of exciting pieces of paperwork to fill in to ensure that we can release these and these items and the chats. 224 00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:59,430 We will. We will make sure that we save the chat, say that there is a record of our conversations today. 225 00:24:59,430 --> 00:25:11,340 But, Diane, I just pass to you for sort of closing words. Well, I'd like to close by thanking everybody involved, particularly the presenters, 226 00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:17,370 because I think we've had an absolutely brilliant series of presentations that were 227 00:25:17,370 --> 00:25:23,010 clearly both thought through and were worked out for presentation to the zoo. 228 00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:28,020 It was just terrific when I sent out that first e-mail. And you all agreed to be involved. 229 00:25:28,020 --> 00:25:33,870 Still really, really grateful to all of you for that. 230 00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:46,200 Second thing to say is I will be getting in touch with all of you about the probability of publishing your work in this special issue of a journal. 231 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:51,450 I just need to liaise with the journal editor about the timetable on that so that 232 00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:56,520 I can communicate with you in a more informed way than I may be able to present. 233 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,890 But I hope that I'm sorry if you've already said that you were willing to make a pieces available. 234 00:26:01,890 --> 00:26:09,230 I'm very grateful for that. If anyone would, we can discuss it every now Sidonie call go on and on about it now. 235 00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:17,280 I'll just say it's happening. And in the meantime, I would love to be in touch with all of you individually because I've so many follow up questions 236 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:25,170 for everybody regarding the fantastic and incredibly exciting material you will present. 237 00:26:25,170 --> 00:26:31,020 So thank you once more. It's been in every way a blast. 238 00:26:31,020 --> 00:26:33,103 Thank you.