The Platforming Artists podcast series is supported by Torch as part of humanity's cultural programme.
Hello and welcome to the sixth episode in our Chameleon Platforming Artist podcast.
And we're happy to welcome Theo Feeney. Gabriel, the poet today, who actually was one of the poets in our first production,
Matear 2018 in Oxford, one of the most memorable and powerful poems from that show.
And we're so happy to have her working with us again. FENA, welcome.
Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me here. I'm just going to tell our lovely audience a bit about you.
If Enor is multiband winning published poet from Slough.
She graduated University of Oxford. She studied philosophy and theology there and has been commissioned by a whole host of people, the BBC.
She's appeared in the Tower Poets Anthology since Dizzy in the Linden Avenue Journal.
She's also been featured in the Guardian News and numerous other publications and journals.
Her writing histories incredibly impressive.
After graduating Oxford, she'd completed an internship at Penguin Random House with Storms Imprint Marquee Books there,
and she now works as a published freelance writer, an artist and and a lot of us,
any of us who in Eurostat also know that she works as the founder and editor in chief of Onyx magazine,
which is an incredible publication that is dedicated to publishing talented black poets, artists and writers.
And we had their latest issue in December of 20/20, and we're going to talk about it today.
She's currently also working on a really exciting short film, her first short film based on Lydia Simmons.
And you'll find out who that is in just a couple of moments. And another thing that Finner and I share is that we both are absolutely,
completely obsessed with the kind of people I think FEMA edge me out on the obsession, something that she loves.
A long introduction, but a great introduction for her, for a really incredible Panopto that we have here today, FENA.
Lydia Simmons, just for our audience, I mean, you're going to tell us a lot about that.
But she's the first black person and really specifically the first African Libyan woman to be a mayor in England and to do tell us about,
you know, what inspired you to create this and to create the short film?
Well, I mean, it's not just to the UK is is Europe.
And I think what inspired means to really archive Lydia's story was seeing black women not only in positions of power,
but black women willing to brave sorts of spaces that they haven't really seen themselves in before.
And they carry the community with them into their spaces and are then able to effect change.
So what I saw was something I almost see in myself is willing to that willingness to sort of brave spaces and
see where these decision makers are gathering and affecting the communities and sort of not infiltrating,
but pushing yourself to try to get in there to effect change within your community.
And I think a similar journey to me happened with Onex.
And so it was just really incredible for me to discover that there was this black woman from my
local area because I was born and raised in Slough and I had never learnt about her in school.
I hadn't heard of her before. I stumbled across her on a Web site.
Well, I was just looking into the local history of the area. I saw this picture of her mayoral portrait and I thought, oh, my God.
From Slough. From Slough, because they have a bad rap.
But yena is just completely incredible. I was completely inspired.
And the more I looked into her story, the deeper it and I thought there is absolutely not enough recognition around that.
And I want to definitely uplift this profile not only for the amazing what she's done,
but also an inspiration to black women in general in terms of, um, merits and what we can do.
There was a really incredible story. There's a lot to unpack.
And in your answer there, I think the first thing that comes out to me is exactly what you said,
which is the the the I understand why you use the word infiltrating.
And I think that obviously it's such a complicated thing because you, in a way,
are sort of infiltrating a space that obviously so, so clearly sort of we have this chameleon all the time.
So clearly sort of does and moneybag. But then obviously you infiltrate and then as you say, often these this these kind of pioneers,
they're really the ones really the ones who effect incredible change.
And this is another example of sort of infiltrating the the really white publishing space of Oxford that was extremely sort of impressively diverse.
And you did sort of infiltrate that space with the magazine. And I think that's really interesting.
And then, of course, the standard incredible pioneer in community.
Yes. We don't teach anyone about. They completely forgot and they don't turn up in schools, you know, of course, we we just.
Even when it's in your own area and someone that directly has has affected the very place that you're in, you don't you don't hear about that.
But then, of course, fantastic that your you're bringing this this film forward.
What kind of what kind of film is it? I mean, is it is it is it narrative.
Is it. Tell us a bit about the film. Film in inner detail. So the film I just wanted Slough to really run throughout the veins of this film.
So a lot of the imagery obviously is based in and around the area and it's mainly centred around me because of Cosied 19.
We wanted to get Lydia involved as much as possible, but we definitely wanted to protect her.
She's an 18. She's an 82 year old woman. So I think that the film is a source of narrative.
It has all of the breadth of the landscape of itself,
spaces and sort of I want it to be recognised as home to people who've grown up in thousands of shots of light.
If you're from Slough, you'll know what I'm talking about, the train station, the big Tesco, Soho, all of these sort of local areas.
And it's just amazing to see not only those images juxtaposed Lydia's journey, but I was very lucky enough to be able to talk to her.
And we had a really long interview. And she really admired the sort of kind of gusto within the younger generation.
And she trusted me with her archival clippings of her press cuttings, all of her old photographs.
So it's very much me kind of overlaying these press cuttings of her with the narration of the film in the film.
And it just it all comes together beautifully shot by my very, very talented friend, Theodore Angus.
He was my cameraman for the TDA shoot.
So it's really exciting. It's really intimate. It features me.
But I'm not the up front and centre focus because it's not about me.
I'm sort of on the edges or I'm under the name of a road that's brought up and things like that.
But yes, it's just very, I think archival almost kind of.
All right. 3D documentary fusion hybrid.
It sounds you know, it sounds extremely interesting.
I think it's also it's nice to see something like this that isn't just in sort of documentary for me there.
It's nice to see that it's got space. And it's I mean, as you always are, extremely creative with how the story is put forward.
Also super cool. I didn't realise that you'd sort of interviewed and actually received sort of personal things from Lydia.
That's that's that's amazing. What was it like? Just sort of quickly tell us, meeting Haren and what was that conversation in the interview like?
Outstay hilarious. Like she is an 80s hero, RVN grandma.
Like she is so sharp. It's incredible.
And she would be like, oh, what did you care about this or did you know about this in the area?
And I'm like this these.
What happens is, is there furiously scribbling away? And I just I thought, it's so edifying to know that I love.
I love slow a lot. And I saw that same love in her for her area.
And I think she still the love I liked the slow and the people in Slough and the history
of so and that was why she trusted me with all of her old clippings that she said,
please give them back. She didn't want to give them to me really at first, because people just because she gets she gets harangued a lot,
because you have to understand the title of being like first black woman to be male like October rolls around
and Black History Month and it's poor eight year old woman has to be like hobbling to her phone book.
I mean, from London, like it's very RACC from then as October ends, everything sight.
And I guess so she thought originally I was coming up today, October Black History Month, and I was like, nah, I'm from Slough.
I really lo Slough Island. She gave things to people before and actually didn't give it back to her, which I find disgusting say that either.
And she just was just really lovely and she stressed the importance of culture and never forget seeing your culture.
And so that was a really driving force for the interview.
And I hope that comes across in the film as well. I'm sure it will.
And I'm for Odean. Please do say when when this film will be available, where they can when where they can see it.
All of these things. Let's let's get that out there. So I think the most in touch platform where you can track my journey will be Instagram.
I am launching the film on Friday, the twenty sixth of March, and I didn't actually know that this month was International Women's History Month.
I was grey making a film of Lydia who plays.
International history by being Europe's first black woman to be mayor. And it will be available on my YouTube channel.
You can find it at Leelah FENA. That's l i l a p h i n a.
And that's my across all platforms. But yeah, I'm definitely gonna do so of a run up in the seven days leading up to the drop.
And yeah. Just be great to celebrate everything that she's done with as many people as possible.
Docility all if all of Fenice links will be on our website by, by the podcast.
You'll be sure to be able to find all of this there as well. But I mean, this this sounds incredible.
Well, we touched on Onyx and I'm that's some that's the thing I sort of remember apart from a deal.
Obviously, the thing I sort of remember, you may for an in going to the Onyx summit alone to remember all of that talk,
talk, talk, talk to us a bit about Onyx and a little bit about about starting at Oxford.
But let's get out of the exit pace and also then moving it to London and your your your post Oxford movements with with the magazine there.
I mean, Onex started off in my student bedroom in 2017, and I just saw a wealth of black talent around me.
And I wanted to give it a platform. As you said, Oxford can be a very oppressive space.
And I mean, it's operating within the metrics of colonial history and elitism.
So, of course, these infrastructures are not suddenly going to disappear. But what I wanted to do was to create a sort of expression shop.
Kids were raised in the homogenous ethos that and that can be very prevalent.
So I guess on it for me was it was a way of the way of championing the depth of talent I saw around me.
People weren't just medicks. They had full canvas paintings in their bedrooms and it was just ridiculous.
So I thought this needs to exist together in a collective shout.
And so that was on exc in my head and I can do alone.
I was joined by my wonderful deputy editor and the first year Sarena, author,
powerhouse of a woman and now working at Hachette urging incredible like that.
And we eventually attracted about six other wonderful, wonderful black women at Oxford.
And we launched on it in twenty eighteen with a thousand print run copy and an incredible launch, which actually you guys are at.
You did a performance. Yeah, the chorus was. Yeah, I remember that.
And I mean, it was just spine tingling. It was amaze me. Energy was electric.
And it just felt so satisfying seeing community up front and centre in a place where it can feel so fragmented to even meet up.
So it was it was a beautiful start, a trajectory in Oxford and took.
Talk to me about it. Now, the movements you're making, obviously outvote, said Pace University,
making this professional production professional publication sorry, in London now.
Yeah, well, not just London. I think our main focus right now is to really draw in the source of UK and is
very much focussed on getting the publication into educational establishments.
Because our focus is two pronged is firstly, yes, tackling the rights of black authors, black poets, black artists within industry.
But also there is the educational element because I mean,
one of the things that will stay to stay with me to this day is getting an email from someone who was interviewing at a college and saying,
I felt really nervous before my interview of seeing all these portraits of white men on the walls and Onyx was on the table.
I picked it up and I was like, rah, there are people like me. And I think a perspective, you know, prospectuses won't do it.
The talks about, you're welcome, Paller do it.
It's only until you see the voice and you're like, oh, my God, they're talking about lions that I like it.
It's the authenticity of Onyx and the pro. It has to reclaim these educational establishments in some small way.
That is really the focus. So he really looking to spread that across the UK with educational establishments and try and broaden our reach that way.
That's the focus at the moment. And obviously, I know, you know, as comedian, we're doing trying to do a lot of work with schools.
And I don't think it can be overstated the importance of getting this in the hands of younger people,
in the hands of people who may be then thinking about applying to institutions
like what's in Cambridge who feel like there is no space for them there. And it's so important to to to show them that this kind of thing does exist.
It isn't just the old white portraits and statues of Winston Churchill or whatever nonsensical things they have everywhere.
Instead, it is it is really thriving. Not with enough diversity,
but there is that there is there are people there that you can you can form a community with and find mutual ground with if you are not,
you know, the standard private school entrance to to to Oxford or Cambridge.
And I love that you're doing that. But on the topic of sort of making systemic change.
We've seen in the last year movements to to make systemic change were hoping that that movement doesn't just stay as a movement,
but instead becomes real every chef. I know that you have a sort of mixed feeling about the happenings of last summer and the re
uprising of the bail movement and so many other race reckonings that we've had over the last year,
for example, that the drastically worse effects of the kind of ice crisis on on on BME communities in particular.
Well, I would love you to talk. And obviously, you're doing well. That is directly relevant to all of that.
What were your feelings through quarantine, through through through the horrendous events of last summer and the movement revolution that followed?
Why is there any triggering question, Ashleigh? And I think.
I think that there's a lot of care that needs to be taken when approaching this because, well, I'm all I'm seeing now,
I'm understanding coming out of this is the reduction of years old, decades of,
dare I say, centuries of struggle now being source of shoehorned into a summer.
Yeah. And it's really painful because I was in an event recently and white women casually put up, you know, Lossiemouth, George Floyds murder.
And it was just moments that sound bites used to kind of extrapolate this movement that people think is, you know, oh, it's happening.
And. And it started last summer. And I just it's I feel this sort of.
Increased hyper visible focus around last summer is symptomatic of the way that people have been ignorant
to these movements and the fact that the systems have been moving this way with students inception.
Yes, sir. So I'm kind of really against the sort of metrics of last summer and of course, Lloyd, because it's not just George Floyd.
So why is this the only energy that we have in terms of analytical discourse?
That is the bridge of focus. I just I'm very wary.
And I think what happened last summer was a lot of increased attention because people's lives were put on Stanstead shoe lines.
Everyone couldn't avoid it in the ways that they normally do.
And you would see on the news Israel policy got Danny Blackhall is not terrible, but for black people, we have been living with this our whole lives.
So it was really confusing to now feel the source of energy of this iconic guilt.
And I was really moved by a piece of fear to that.
One of my favourites face Rice's Jasmine Jones as she did this brilliant production and she calls the white Gilt's masses.
And I saw a loss of a loss of sort of action that was very much missing previously because this didn't start with George Floyd.
We can go all the way back to several Black Lives Matter protests.
And I think it just added a sort of frantic and inescapable energy that that negatively harm the loss of black people.
We had discussions being like, oh, my God, I just found out about this and racism.
And it's sort of having to experience that over and over again is is quite damaging.
And so when I look at what's happened last summer and I look at the way now, life well seems to be moving back to some semblance of normal.
I'm really sceptical of the infrastructural changes that would need to happen because guilt in and of itself cannot affect things.
I don't believe that I'm guilt in and of itself can affect things without measurable action coming as a consequence of that.
And what tends to happen, especially with online, is that people can sort of say that, that.
You know, denounce it. We need to I a lot. It's so important to have these discussions.
It's so important to change. And then I wait for the change.
So I'm very much waiting to see the measurable actions that will that will arise.
Maybe of this seismic shift of attention. But it's very important to note that the movement did not come to a head last summer.
I think that, yeah, I agree with you so much. And I know I.
I always say when when talking to people in sort of meetings about.
About. About media or about comedian, I say that, you know,
we're only remotely able to do this because of powerhouses like Talor and Tamasha and Tara who have made Devastator.
And people have been using media for centuries as a piece of art, as a piece of everything from from resistance to.
To a space where where where you can relate to stories that may be more relevant to you
that aren't involved normally in the common or in the general scope of creativity.
And, you know, it was the first play performed in Cuba by women post the revolution.
I mean, it's got such a history and I really agree with you. And I think also recently about sort of it's a sin and that's popularity and forgetting.
You know, there are people I speak to who don't know what Stonewall is. And suddenly it's all about it's a it to and it's visible.
You know, that happened in 40 years ago. And people have been pioneering for that for that whole time.
And I and I do think that the the sort of shallowness of looking at things is this is what happened
or some it really disrespects so many activists to who we is as now people who are being,
you know, activists are and tried to make change are very much completely relying on.
We stand on the way that they did.
And we are only able to do the work that we're doing because of the ground that they have laid for four decades, centuries.
As you say, I do think that's an extremely important point. And it's I wouldn't even Nessa's equal a nuance.
It's just sort of a foundational point that I do agree really has been forgotten or even wilfully ignored,
I think, because by accepting it, you have to equally accept that.
Then before last summer, you weren't you know, you weren't that way.
You didn't take the time to be aware and accepting that is accepting a whole level of ignorance and a whole level of guilt.
As you say, that is very much true. But, you know, now people feel like they they shouldn't be admitting to.
I think that's an extremely interesting point. Yeah. And I also felt like guilt isn't because guilt is not a neutral emotion, guilt and anger.
They can feel you. But it's very much not sustainable.
So what we see is the catharsis of this. I call it white guilt.
I've donated this or they point to the actions and it's like I've done this, I've done X, Y, Z.
But in terms of sustainability,
I think it comes from a place of active awareness and consistent support and guilt should not be this the centre of that framework.
And I feel like it's almost again re centring whiteness to here for any activism to come from white guilt.
I think it's intention saviour ism we if we get to places like that.
So I think it's really important to go further than last summer and see the infrastructures that have been existing before that,
because again, what I saw was new platforms being made and things like this.
It's just it's very much about respecting what's come before and the history that has preceded the peak of attention that happened last summer.
I think all of this is hopefully, you know, us talking and I'm sure numerous people talking,
you are aware of these things will start to bring these nuances.
But I do also agree. I mean, I'm a little bit cynical and I'm just waiting for the for the real hard.
The real change, the real hard cash, the real hard legislation that that is going to back up this this refocus.
Let's let's try that. Oh, no. So I think it's important to note that revelation isn't a one time event as it's famously known.
So the revelation is not the singular legislation.
It's not the singular point. It's happening now.
It's happened before. It will continue to happen.
And reframing that is, how am I doing this work for revolutionary infrastructure in my own avenues, in my own arenas.
And that's that's the. So that's it. Yeah. That's a very it's a very valuable and important point in this.
Sort of brings us wonderfully on two to two a piece that I'm lucky enough to sort of have had an exclusive look at,
which is called Lydia, which is that part of your creation for this incredible project?
You're doing the short film.
And actually one of the lines I picked out before we we'd had this discussion was grant us the grace to never forget the works of the elders.
And you go on then to say our homes are built out of their names and our history from what they have done.
And I don't know that ties in so well with the discussion that we've just had.
These are sort of incredible lines. Why don't you talk. Talk a little.
About this this work and and this kind of idea that the work surveiled does is something that certainly we're very interested in media.
For me, I think it's really important to note that got in that line is not monotheistic.
Good. It's sort of spiritual. Black woman in terms of black women leading their communities as creators.
So when I when I say that line, may God grant us the grace to never forget the works of the elders.
It's an approach to the intergenerational legacies of black women.
And the sources poem is a tribute to remembrance.
And so in the framework of my poem, I create and I preserve, as Lydia also created and preserved for other black women.
And the the line of hymns I made, all of their names you'll see in the film is because of the housing.
That was a symbolic tribute to Lydia.
There's housing in the local area that actually bears Lydia's name because of the work
that she did in creating housing for people in the local area who were in desperate,
desperate need. So it's symbolic and metaphorical, but also very, very practical.
And that's something that I tried to do with this poem in order to communicate
the history of how black and our history from what they've done is is just,
again, not an additional image related to to the the really structural way.
She she changed the she changed the framework of not only black women being in politics,
but also the legislation of not just now, as you'll see when the film comes out, but many cities in the UK.
And I think it's I think it's completely incredible the work that he's done as a poet.
I find one of my one of the things I love to talk about is the materials and and material things work.
What can we build out of what what substances do we trust?
What substances can we build from? We trust wood. We trust Barack.
We just don't we don't trust blood in certain contexts. And I just I really like playing with materials.
And it's a theme that pops up in my work a lot. So our homes, our houses, our homes out their names and our history is built from what they have done.
So I like merging sort of the intangible and the tangible is a poetic.
Well, I find that is very interesting. And it's I didn't actually realise that they were the nuance of that line.
But the fact that the houses were actually named after and it shows sort of quite how embedded someone is as as influential as she was,
is within these communities. Even if those communities choose not to teach, share and make can they made to to future generations.
And once again, I think it's incredible that you are offering this as a as a resource for people to learn not.
I think this is an incredible thing, especially I hope for the people of Slough who will realise and recognise and
re recognise the importance of that name in the houses and in the streets,
as you're saying. Look, I cannot believe it. Somehow we're nearly we're nearly the end.
Jesus, these things things go so quickly. But something that we like to sort of say at the end is obviously you're doing really revolutionary work.
It teaches us that the buzzword of the of the podcast. And I just want to hear sort of your thoughts moving forward.
Obviously, we talked about how there's a lot that I mean, there's always a lot that needs to be done.
And and I would just love to hear a bit about, you know,
the movements that you're making it and what you hope to see over the next sort of year and the changes
that you think are the right changes to make as we move forward to sit around this off for this podcast.
Really, really big question. I think, again, is it's really important.
Well, what Lydia actually taught me is that we have to start where we are.
We often categorise revolution as this massive thing that's so far from us.
It's gonna be this this historical event. You think revolution. You think.
You know, storming of buildings and beheading elite.
And I think those those kind of seismic shifts in history happen when they need to happen.
And that's something that's very comforting. But also, we can't ignore what is happening around us now.
And so I see Lidia's work in legislation. She changed the infrastructure to disrupt order in housing.
And simply put. Those who were in need first and now that is, you know, sort of invent embedded within the system.
And so she inverted it. She turned it on its head. That's also quite revolutionary.
And so direct action in our SRES arenas because we can't we can't tackle everything.
You know, you're going to be better at some things are going to be closer to some areas.
Well, and this is all I mean, this is all from Audrey Lord.
And I mean, there's so much I could get into.
But I think the make the main change. I want to see happen is a rededication to people's communities and the black
people and the people who are being and continue continuing to be suppressed,
obliterated and annihilated by the system. I mean, kov.
It has just been, again, an exposé of stories and narratives that are well known within the black community and our history with healthcare.
So, I mean, a refocused energy in whatever arena you're standing in to effect change.
And that can look like talking to your superiors when something is said or that can look like, say, why is this like that?
And really challenging and not challenging to reform the system, but to divest power away from me?
I think that's really important. We can't change the systems. You know, the master's tool, not dismantling the master's house.
We have to be looking at ways we can grapple power away from the system so that it isn't my fault.
And that can be invested. That can be in poetry. That can be an art that it doesn't have to be in politics.
It's in whatever arena you feel that you are close to. But I mean,
I asked a very heavy question and you gave an very short period of time one of the
best answers I think I've had in the last year and having these conversations.
Thank you so much for joining us today there. And I'm sure that our listeners will be looking at your work and certainly watching the lady of film.
Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for having me. Chip.