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hello everyone uh welcome to this event

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today uh i just saw in the title slide

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but i'll say it again this is how does

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climate crisis

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how does the climate crisis change the

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curriculum innovating in education and

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the future of work

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this is an event which has been

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organized by the climate crisis thinking

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in the humanities and social sciences

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network which is part of the oxford

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research center in humanities

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and this event is also part of a series

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of events of podcasts of panel

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discussions that are part of the uk

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university's top 26 networks innovation

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showcase so today with cop 26 kicking

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off it's a great time to be

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part of this group my name is bill

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finnegan i am a doctoral student at the

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school of geography and the environment

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at the university of oxford

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and my research is looking at climate

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change education and also school

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sustainability for secondary schools in

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the uk

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and i'm really here just to kind of

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moderate this panel we've got a great

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group of people and um

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the format is is basically we're going

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to start with some introductions kind of

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brief introductions from each of the

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panelists and then we have a series of

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questions we're really approaching this

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very informally um

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kind of direct questions to particular

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members of the panel but then anyone who

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has anything to add can can jump in at

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any time

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and um for anyone joining us for the

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webinar um there's a q a function so put

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any questions you have for the panel

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there we'll be keeping track of that and

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then towards the end of the panel we'll

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try and bring in as many of the audience

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questions as we can

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um so for the introductions i think i

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should be easiest if i just go down

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the list as it appears for me and zoom

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so i think we'll probably go through

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kind of

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first name alphabetical if that's okay

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so amanda do you mind starting just with

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an introduction again

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uh

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who you are where you're coming from and

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a bit of context like how it relates to

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the topic of of today's session

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sure um hi everyone i'm amanda power i'm

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an associate professor of medieval

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history in oxford um i'm also the

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co-convener of the the climate crisis

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thinking in the humanities and social

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sciences network um so

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my research has increasingly been about

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how um having a historical background to

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to thinking about how we got into the

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situation that we're in and why we're

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having trouble dealing with it

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my research is sort of partly about

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disinterring that and and making it

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speak usefully both in educational and

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other contexts um

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i think that's perhaps enough for me for

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now

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um aryan do you mind introducing

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yourself as well

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sure are in walls i'm i'm located in the

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netherlands at the moment at wageningen

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university life science university

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and i'm also a unesco chair in social

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learning for sustainable development

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my background is in environmental and

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sustainability education

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and

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one of the key themes at the moment that

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we are working with is what we call the

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whole school or all institution approach

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to sustainability so we're looking for

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more integrated

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approaches to anchoring sustainability

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meaningfully

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in curriculum in in the school as a as a

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as an operation but also in school

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community relationships and

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finding new ways of teaching and

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learning that are more relational that

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are more holistic

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that can also tackle

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problems like climate change in a more

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systemic way looking at the root causes

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also looking at new kinds of

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competencies and qualities that we need

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to do this in a good way

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great thank you

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um james will you introduce yourself

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hi everybody i'm james robson i'm deputy

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director of scope that's the center for

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skills knowledge and organizational

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performance at the department of

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education at oxford i'm also a lecturer

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in higher education my work focuses on

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structures policies and political

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economies of higher and tertiary

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education systems

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with a particular focus on the

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intersection between education

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employment and sustainability

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along with skills supply and demand

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research ecosystems and social justice

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i'm really excited to be part of this

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discussion today

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i think the curriculum and education and

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training systems more broadly should sit

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at the heart of any conversation about

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sustainability and the climate crisis

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and

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you know some of my work focuses on this

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in terms of skill supply and demand in

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terms of looking at what we mean by

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green jobs and green skills and how

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education and training systems can

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supply the skills that are required by a

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changing future but also how we can

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envision new futures and new ways of

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working

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to actually drive change at a systemic

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level

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great thanks kim

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hello i'm kim paul green i'm a freelance

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sustainability educator based here in

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oxford

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my background is in science i was a

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biochemist once upon a time um in

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business where i used to work on

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sustainability consultancy work for

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businesses and in education where i run

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an education business uh primarily

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focused on the international

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baccalaureate deployment programme

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um so now currently my two main roles

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are that i run a teen summer school on

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sustainability at the environmental

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change institute at the university here

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in oxford

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um and i'll tell to talk a little bit

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about that uh later and i'm also the

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youth educator in residence at white and

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woods which is the university's research

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woodlands and i'm responsible for sort

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of bringing groups of students into the

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woods and talking to them about

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biodiversity climate and just

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enjoying being out there

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um i'm also working with local schools

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and teachers here in oxford on a range

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of sustainability projects um currently

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we're doing one on sustainable fashion

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i'm gonna do a fashion shoot at the

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natural history museum next week um and

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one on planting for pollinators and and

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all sorts of different things there's

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lots going on in the teacher and school

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um environment here

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thanks great

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um rahul can you introduce yourself as

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well

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uh

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rahul chopra i currently

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lead and

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coordinate a global climate change

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education project of the international

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union of biological sciences

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this project which is called drop xu

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which stands for transdisciplinary

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research oriented pedagogy for improving

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climate studies and understanding is a

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project which seeks to kind of integrate

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climate change education

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into the curriculum of many many

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different subjects

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uh in addition to sort of you know

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you know doing some work with with the

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teachers across the world

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uh i also have i'm the convener of what

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is called the national resource center

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on climate change at isr pune which is a

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university in india

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our job there was

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to essentially create a mooc for teacher

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training and we titled this climate

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change guide for teachers of all

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disciplines

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and even though it is not really part of

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the curriculum as a separate standalone

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subject

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we got several thousand people who

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registered for this course

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so i think these are the two main hats

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related to you know today's discussion

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that that i currently wear uh in

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addition to this i had founded an

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environmental studies undergraduate

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program at a liberal arts college in

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pune it was the first of its kind in

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india it's called flame university

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my background and training in the

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beginning was from the university of

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chicago but it was in geophysical

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sciences but i was exposed to climate

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change understanding and the science

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from the big guys there uh very very

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excited to be here and learn and talk to

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everybody on this particular panel thank

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you for having me

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great thanks and um and then to complete

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the panel i'm stephen can you introduce

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yourself as well

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thanks very much and yeah thanks joseph

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for having me i'm really excited to be

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here and have a really important

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discussion and these great people my

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background is a secondary school

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geography teacher and i now work as a

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geography teacher educator so training

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people to become secondary school

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geography teachers and i'm primarily

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interested in questions about um subject

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knowledge and about teachers subject

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knowledge and particularly where they go

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to to get the information that they're

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then using to teach and i see that

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research being located at the interface

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between the academic discipline and

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school subject

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of geography but also this relationship

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between disciplines and school subjects

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in general so ask these questions about

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how knowledge is transformed and how

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these massive disciplines are made

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accessible and to much younger people

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and one of the recent projects that

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we've been involved with and with

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colleagues including um rahul and james

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and others and on climate change

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education features in india has asked

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this question about information for

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teaching about climate change education

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of educators in india across a range of

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scales from um kind of primary context

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right through to postgraduate context

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and across many different states it's

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then kind of raised really interesting

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questions and has really been useful for

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understanding the ways in which and some

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of those kind of comparative aspects of

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this and and some of the big ways in

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which particular kind of knowledge

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production centers um are dominating in

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this whole debate um but yeah that's it

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for me

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great um so in this conversation we were

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really going to start with that kind of

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that central question which was kind of

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in the name of the event which is

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how does the climate crisis change the

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way

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we teach to change education so

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um you know we're gonna start with

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amanda but i think we'll also bring in

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steve on that and again it's thinking

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about how each subject is conceptualized

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taught related to other subject areas

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um so amanda do you mind as you convened

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us especially do you mind starting us

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00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:21,120
off on that question surely um

287
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,720
so i think i thought i might start off

288
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,160
at a a sort of stepping back um

289
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,760
sort of far away from the curriculum to

290
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,760
think about how we conceptualize our

291
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,000
disciplines um and then come a little

292
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,079
bit closer to it um so just a few

293
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,440
general remarks to start with i mean it

294
00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:37,519
i think it's very striking that if

295
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,680
education had begun from say the early

296
00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:41,760
1990s to reflect deepening scientific

297
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:43,279
understanding around climate change

298
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,480
more than half the current working and

299
00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:46,399
voting population would have been

300
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,000
equipped at school to understand what's

301
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:49,680
happening and to make informed choices

302
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,279
in all areas of their life including

303
00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:53,120
politically and that would have been

304
00:10:51,279 --> 00:10:55,760
building incrementally generation after

305
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:58,079
generation um since that well over the

306
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,680
last 30 40 years

307
00:10:58,079 --> 00:11:01,440
since this wasn't done in most countries

308
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:03,200
and in most disciplines

309
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,959
we're increasingly finding ourselves in

310
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,880
in the shocking position that the the

311
00:11:04,959 --> 00:11:08,079
mainstream teaching curriculum for most

312
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,680
subjects

313
00:11:08,079 --> 00:11:11,760
barely acknowledges or addresses

314
00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:14,160
planetary realities and i'm aware that

315
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,360
this is a starker feeling for someone

316
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,959
working in the humanities where it

317
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,600
really doesn't and there are subjects

318
00:11:16,959 --> 00:11:22,000
that that do address it um much better

319
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,480
and there are ways in which individual

320
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,160
teachers and individual schools have

321
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,040
tried to introduce programs that do do

322
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:33,040
this um but i think on the level of um

323
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:35,360
educational policy there's still a a

324
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,640
a a great rupture between

325
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,120
the world that

326
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:41,040
that scientists and and and many other

327
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,640
researchers describe and and the sort of

328
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,200
a future that people are being educated

329
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:47,519
to to enter into and i suppose that was

330
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,120
that reflection that was partly um

331
00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:50,800
producing this panel

332
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,560
um so i think it's it's probably not

333
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,320
putting it too strongly to say that that

334
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,680
we are still educating generations to

335
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,760
live and what's an increasingly

336
00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:59,200
threadbare fantasy of growth stability

337
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,360
and opportunity

338
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,680
um and that like most of the adult

339
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,920
population today students coming out of

340
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:07,920
schools are still lacking the emotional

341
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:11,360
conceptual and ethical equipment to deal

342
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:13,680
with with this real world um and i think

343
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,760
in terms of how um

344
00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:17,519
politicians

345
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,680
particularly but but many others sort of

346
00:12:17,519 --> 00:12:21,040
see education as it is about competition

347
00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:23,680
to get the best results rather than

348
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,440
collaboration um valuing educational

349
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:27,519
outcomes by monetary earnings

350
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,720
predominantly and teaching students i

351
00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:30,240
mean this is perhaps particularly a

352
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,079
problem in my field to be proud of their

353
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,560
country rather than to be critical and

354
00:12:32,079 --> 00:12:36,320
useful citizens of it and i think these

355
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:38,399
these are probably sort of roots to

356
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,880
disaster in terms of producing adaptable

357
00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:42,720
societies but i think also the the very

358
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,480
bleak picture of student mental health

359
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,760
is is very likely to be a product of all

360
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,440
these factors

361
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,440
um so i think if we if we're wanting to

362
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,240
think about how to reconceptualize i've

363
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:54,320
drawn this darkly i appreciate um but

364
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,600
but in order to um start thinking about

365
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,480
how we would

366
00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,320
reconceptualize beyond adapting the

367
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,000
current curriculums like how if we were

368
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,920
starting a new

369
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,519
set of school quickly from scratch what

370
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,760
how would we want to build it

371
00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,440
um i think recognizing the roots of the

372
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,720
existing disciplines and what they've

373
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,000
they've sort of grown up to teach is

374
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,680
quite important

375
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,320
so i mean i think it's it's fact that

376
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:17,920
most modern academic disciplines um as

377
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,519
well as our ways of thinking about

378
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,839
teaching and producing knowledge are

379
00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:23,600
actually very old um and they were

380
00:13:21,839 --> 00:13:25,680
formulated within a conceptual and a

381
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,399
governing framework that invested humans

382
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:28,639
with

383
00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:30,959
uh with um

384
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:33,360
a sense of domination and agency over

385
00:13:30,959 --> 00:13:35,839
environments um and was very interested

386
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,920
in developing that human domination um

387
00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:39,199
over environments and other humans

388
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,440
and i think built into that was the

389
00:13:39,199 --> 00:13:43,279
sense that truths were produced by human

390
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,399
investigations um

391
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:46,399
and that was something that particular

392
00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:48,880
types of humans were uniquely equipped

393
00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:51,199
to do whereas others were objects of

394
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,880
that knowledge production and as

395
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:54,880
education broadened in the population is

396
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,279
still a sense that it's a top-down

397
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,480
business of teaching um

398
00:13:57,279 --> 00:14:00,079
groups of people who need to learn

399
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,199
knowledge that have been produced by

400
00:14:00,079 --> 00:14:03,519
others rather than making a more

401
00:14:01,199 --> 00:14:05,440
participatory type of education

402
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:06,880
um and i mean historically speaking

403
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,480
people who are closer to environments

404
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,480
whether they're barbarians or peasants

405
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,040
or rustics or indigenous populations

406
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,240
were always seen as people to be taught

407
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,920
things rather than people whose

408
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,920
knowledge would be valuable and so a lot

409
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,440
of this is is flipping

410
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,680
the assumption that the closer you are

411
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,360
to to natural environments the less you

412
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,800
actually know that's important for our

413
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,839
societies

414
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,839
um

415
00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:29,519
so i think a lot of the sort of core

416
00:14:27,839 --> 00:14:32,480
paradigms um

417
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:33,360
need rethinking and and the more we can

418
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,959
involve

419
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,480
students in those sorts of free thinking

420
00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:37,680
i think the more exciting and more

421
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:41,199
engaging they're going to find their

422
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:43,760
education um so if we stop thinking that

423
00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:45,760
that development and modernization um

424
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,199
for the sake of it are the most

425
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,240
important things for a society to be

426
00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:50,639
doing and we start thinking about

427
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,920
sustainable practices involving students

428
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:54,560
in in those questions and those

429
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,800
knowledge production um you know there's

430
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,720
um those kind of radical transformations

431
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,079
to how we even produce knowledge i think

432
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,839
um

433
00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:02,880
would represent an important paradigm

434
00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:03,680
shift

435
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,600
um

436
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:09,279
a bit more in in slightly more concrete

437
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:10,800
terms um i think for the humanities it's

438
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:12,720
going to be very important to restore

439
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,880
the environmental context to all all the

440
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,199
disciplines so at the moment we do have

441
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,680
a very significant rupture between the

442
00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:22,480
world as we think it is or we used to

443
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,440
think it was and a very unsettling

444
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,680
future

445
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,920
and a sort of

446
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,839
disturbing and unsettling present

447
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,199
um how can we bring those things back

448
00:15:29,839 --> 00:15:32,880
together so that we can understand the

449
00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:35,279
present situation is very very deeply

450
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,079
rooted in human history and human values

451
00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:38,959
um

452
00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:40,560
human storytelling um

453
00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:42,399
the ways that that humans have sort of

454
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,800
put together their sense of self there

455
00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:46,399
isn't really a rupture between

456
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,399
the very dominant modes of understanding

457
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:49,680
ourselves and and

458
00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:51,839
the very long history through which

459
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,120
these things grew um

460
00:15:51,839 --> 00:15:55,360
so

461
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,000
i think um

462
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,759
to do that one needs to

463
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,360
develop new forms of interdisciplinarity

464
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:03,680
so bringing sciences and geographies and

465
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,519
humanities together um to learn how we

466
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,600
look at these planetary past climates

467
00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:10,000
volcanic activities anthropogenic

468
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,040
impacts on microregional ecologies

469
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,040
looking at

470
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,040
pathogens and bacteria disease and its

471
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,120
impacts all these things can move easily

472
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,720
between sciences and and humanities

473
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,519
fields to give us a much richer

474
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,360
understanding of how the planet works

475
00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:24,639
um teaching students to think on

476
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,360
different scales from the ones they're

477
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:29,279
used to i think is really crucial

478
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,680
um

479
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:33,759
and i think humanities can just two

480
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,800
final points before i hand over to steve

481
00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:38,079
i think in in humanities um thinking

482
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,480
about how human societies have

483
00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:43,600
experienced and responded to both very

484
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,880
catastrophic environmental changes and

485
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,320
smaller scale ones that are a bit

486
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,839
difficult to pick up in the time but

487
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,360
incrementally have a big effect so the

488
00:16:47,839 --> 00:16:51,199
little ice age is the sort of classic

489
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,560
example of a sort of shift in

490
00:16:51,199 --> 00:16:54,480
environmental conditions that did

491
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,079
require different forms of resilience

492
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,920
and provided societies with different

493
00:16:56,079 --> 00:16:59,920
opportunities

494
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,440
um and

495
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:04,160
i think the final thing that i'd want to

496
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,760
say is that humanity's subjects um when

497
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,760
they're radically reconceived i think

498
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,079
can offer this sort of

499
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,559
emotional and ethical teaching that that

500
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:14,559
is going to be really crucial i think

501
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:16,079
for future generations so

502
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:19,520
there isn't much that hasn't happened

503
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:21,439
yet um in history that um can happen to

504
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,640
individuals so that the ways in which

505
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:24,720
we'll experience loss and

506
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,000
destabilization and the ways in which we

507
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,919
might be able to gather ourselves to

508
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,559
work together um

509
00:17:27,919 --> 00:17:33,039
to to live sustainably to have hope um

510
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:34,320
to see things in terms of collective

511
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:35,520
benefit rather than individual

512
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,280
competition

513
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,280
all that materials there it's in their

514
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,360
historical experience it's in literature

515
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:44,160
it's in music it's in poetry it's all

516
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:46,480
there to be accessed and and mobilized

517
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,919
as a kind of living cultural tradition

518
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,440
um and i'm

519
00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:51,440
not meaning just in the west i mean it

520
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,360
all all countries all peoples have their

521
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,320
ways of talking if these are sort of

522
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:57,919
brought back as um as kind of

523
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,039
living ways of thinking and inhabiting

524
00:17:57,919 --> 00:18:00,960
the world rather than something that you

525
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:02,640
study and get examined on i think all

526
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,880
these would be very important

527
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,679
transformative um

528
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,679
ways to approach education

529
00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:11,360
steve

530
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:13,440
hey well thank you very much

531
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,679
that's not to expect just so many

532
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,200
different areas and to pick up on i know

533
00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:18,240
when bill was kind of framing that

534
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,240
question there were a couple of

535
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,400
different ways in which i was kind of

536
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,919
keen to think through particularly

537
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,640
starting with geography and then working

538
00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:29,760
out in what ways does this one subject

539
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,520
then relate to other subjects and and

540
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,440
how does climate change do something

541
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,960
different to that relationship and i

542
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,400
guess the way in which you've kind of

543
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,720
framed that about

544
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,559
these past things having happened and

545
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,400
there's nothing new that's gonna happen

546
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:44,400
that hasn't already that kind of

547
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,520
fundamental question is the climate

548
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:50,720
crisis something that is then

549
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:53,280
fundamentally new to education and

550
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,120
transforming to education in a way that

551
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:58,720
actually kind of other things haven't

552
00:18:55,120 --> 00:19:00,160
been um or their big continuities with

553
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,520
other kind of debates and other

554
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,880
challenges and other problems that

555
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:07,679
education's kind of needed to impact and

556
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,840
needed to address and i guess for me the

557
00:19:07,679 --> 00:19:11,760
way in which um the subjects are

558
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,080
addressing this question is a really

559
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,799
helpful kind of point to

560
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,559
kind of go into that conversation and so

561
00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:21,120
the way in which you might think of

562
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:23,600
subjects being these kind of

563
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:25,919
big senses of knowledge production that

564
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,160
have generated some really kind of like

565
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:29,600
incredible insights into

566
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,320
various different things that we

567
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:35,039
experience and engage with and so on

568
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,520
but have got also this really

569
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:39,440
problematic past that looking in a

570
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,520
particular context of geography and

571
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,120
doing that from um kind of an oxford

572
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,799
context there's been so many debates

573
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,880
recently about the ways in which these

574
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,799
massive figures in oxford geography

575
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,360
people like alfred mckinder had

576
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:54,160
particular really racialized and racist

577
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:56,799
views of the world and of geographies to

578
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,640
produce these imperial systems means

579
00:19:56,799 --> 00:20:00,320
that we've got i mean what are these

580
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,080
ripper cash and colleagues have called

581
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,080
the kind of i'm drawing on mignola's

582
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,080
work the shadow and shine of

583
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,360
disciplinary knowledge and of the kind

584
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,320
of knowledge that you might teach in

585
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,559
school

586
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,320
and because of the ways in which these

587
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:14,080
debates about climate change are then

588
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,240
tied up in these big disciplinary

589
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,640
systems then actually those kind of

590
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,799
racialized ways in which that knowledge

591
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,600
has been framed and also those just

592
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:25,840
massive stories that have been told

593
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,000
about countries and about development

594
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,000
and about economics and about progress

595
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,600
and all of the different ways in which

596
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,600
we've kind of envisioned and

597
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,520
conceptualized the ways in which

598
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,200
countries might interact and i mean you

599
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,200
mentioned amanda a few times this notion

600
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,799
of kind of competition and particularly

601
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,360
in terms of education kind of completely

602
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:45,520
buying into that and completely taking

603
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:47,120
on that narrative about um really just

604
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,960
kind of other forms of exceptionalism

605
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:51,039
that you want education to then produce

606
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,919
people who are able to kind of compete

607
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:56,080
and to win and so on and and so for me

608
00:20:53,919 --> 00:20:58,559
the big ways in which this disciplinary

609
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,720
knowledge is is tied up in all of these

610
00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:02,799
different conversations and means that

611
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,640
kind of some of the work of untangling

612
00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:07,280
that and some of the work of kind of

613
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,720
speaking back to those um disciplines

614
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,320
and those subjects

615
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,080
and means that there's just this

616
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,640
brilliant opportunity through climate

617
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,159
change education to do some of that work

618
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,200
and i mean you mentioned this notion of

619
00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:21,840
kind of critical um citizens and

620
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,159
critical people who are able to then and

621
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,720
ask these kind of really hard questions

622
00:21:24,159 --> 00:21:28,080
and and i think some of those big themes

623
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,080
that you brought up would be really

624
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,000
useful ways in which and we might think

625
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,720
of subjects kind of interacting so these

626
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:37,280
big questions about scale and about time

627
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,559
and about certainty and uncertainty and

628
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,760
a couple of and really interesting

629
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:41,200
things that have kind of come up through

630
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,760
the recent work that we've been doing

631
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:46,240
with um teachers in india so one

632
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,600
particular question um kind of on a

633
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,840
temporal

634
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,360
layer so we've got this massive thing

635
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,679
climate change that we might understand

636
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:56,320
over kind of vast geologic

637
00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:58,080
time but then there's also experience in

638
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,000
this kind of the immediacy and there's

639
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,520
one kind of way in which teacher was

640
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,600
describing the real challenge of

641
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,640
engaging students um

642
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,080
so i think that's a really kind of

643
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,880
polarized thing that some students kind

644
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:11,919
of incredibly um motivated and are

645
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:14,159
really kind of um advocating for big

646
00:22:11,919 --> 00:22:16,000
change in curriculum and most others

647
00:22:14,159 --> 00:22:18,000
like with any subject kind of not and

648
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,280
completely disengaged and and this

649
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,520
teacher then kind of coming to this

650
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:24,960
point where they say um i can't get them

651
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,320
to think about it until the ac breaks

652
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,080
the air conditioning breaks and then

653
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,320
bang it's too hot and suddenly it's this

654
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,400
kind of embodied experience thing that

655
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,440
then is kind of ah this is an issue and

656
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,360
i think you've seen that a bit in the

657
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,039
ways in which various different and

658
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:38,799
wildfires and others have been reported

659
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,039
over the last kind of year or so you've

660
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:43,039
had these kind of moments where there's

661
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:44,400
been these extreme weather events

662
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:46,400
that then has kind of forced the

663
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,559
conversation and has meant that kind of

664
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,799
um some strong kind of denialist forms

665
00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:53,280
have been much harder but then for the

666
00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:56,480
teachers then got this really tricky

667
00:22:53,280 --> 00:23:00,080
dilemma how do we deal with describing

668
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:02,320
something that is big changes over time

669
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,640
and relating that to these immediate

670
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,080
embodied things and that question i mean

671
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,960
there's obviously been lots of work done

672
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,039
in kind of

673
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,960
climate science and looking at kind of

674
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:12,400
the science around weather attribution

675
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,760
and the really kind of quite complex

676
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,760
ways in which and there's no

677
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,520
probabilities that are down being kind

678
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,280
of thrown to say oh this event was kind

679
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,200
of like three times more likely a

680
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,120
hundred times more likely and so on but

681
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,200
quite how a teacher might kind of engage

682
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:27,120
with that big question about kind of

683
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,640
scale and time and i think there's some

684
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,559
really fascinating ways in which history

685
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,120
and geography and others and kind of got

686
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:35,280
to speak to those debates and another

687
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:37,280
thing that um i was going to also pick

688
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,440
up on a kind of a question from the q a

689
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,279
and kind of relate back to parts um of

690
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,360
this in terms of this knowledge

691
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:44,640
production centers so nikita's question

692
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:45,919
and can we say a bit more can i say a

693
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,919
bit more about what i meant by some

694
00:23:45,919 --> 00:23:50,640
knowledge production centers dominating

695
00:23:47,919 --> 00:23:52,720
the debate um and just to give another

696
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,960
quick example from that work that we've

697
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,360
been doing and with colleagues in india

698
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,120
we did a uh just one kind of little

699
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,600
simple illustration of this we did a

700
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:04,240
google search and at the same time but

701
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,640
two different places so i did the search

702
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,559
in oxford and then colleagues in pune

703
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,159
did the same search so we're on google

704
00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:12,720
and we searched for climate change

705
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:14,159
teaching resources and and both did this

706
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,919
search at the same time so we've got our

707
00:24:14,159 --> 00:24:17,360
own computers with their own kind of

708
00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:19,679
histories and our own kind of logins and

709
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,360
all the rest of it and in those two

710
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:24,159
obviously kind of geographically

711
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:26,880
separated places then compared the top

712
00:24:24,159 --> 00:24:28,720
10 results from those searches

713
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,440
and the similarities absolutely

714
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,760
staggering and so neither of us had any

715
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,440
resources that were produced um in india

716
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,720
or in websites that were based in india

717
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,919
even though one of those searches is

718
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:42,240
done in india and we both had a single

719
00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:43,760
primary school in doncaster and they had

720
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,520
a little page on climate change

721
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,919
education i've obviously done some good

722
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,320
kind of seo stuff and so they had that

723
00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:51,600
page and then have various other um

724
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,600
things there are some kind of irish

725
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,360
resources and various other resources

726
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,720
particularly and kind of from an english

727
00:24:55,360 --> 00:25:00,720
context and when google is such a

728
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,480
powerful filter through which teachers

729
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,640
are accessing information about climate

730
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,279
change and that kind of digital

731
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,840
mediation of all of this stuff and being

732
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:12,080
the ways in which information is is

733
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,320
accessed and then is also kind of made

734
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,480
visible and that seems to be a really

735
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,600
striking example of the way in which

736
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,360
finding local resources or finding

737
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,159
information that's representing this big

738
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:26,159
global challenge um but in a specific

739
00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:28,240
context has actually been shaped in

740
00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:30,320
particular ways and there's been kind of

741
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,320
framed through particular lenses that

742
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,200
either gives examples from particular

743
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,679
places or is just tied up in the broader

744
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,679
um kind of discourses so these metaphors

745
00:25:37,679 --> 00:25:41,919
and narratives and so on and of those

746
00:25:39,679 --> 00:25:44,240
particular places and so i think that's

747
00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:46,480
another big challenge a curriculum level

748
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,600
and for teachers is how does these

749
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,120
questions about scale and place

750
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,520
work out how do we kind of get the

751
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:55,200
information resources and so on and that

752
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,600
allow us to look in our particular

753
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,880
context and and then to do this really

754
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,799
challenging intellectual work of

755
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,080
relating those things to them this

756
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:04,080
bigger broader global scale

757
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:10,640
um great kim i think you might wanted to

758
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:13,840
come in on this question as well um

759
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,840
did you have something to add

760
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:19,039
um i could come in later though in

761
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:20,880
whichever order you want

762
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,159
okay i guess there's a question of if

763
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,279
anybody who wants to jump in on this

764
00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:25,520
kind of initial question and how it's

765
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:27,760
been set up by him by amanda and steven

766
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,760
um

767
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,480
james did you want to hop in now i i

768
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,440
just wanted to add a quick point in

769
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,200
relation to uh to steve's um final

770
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,760
points about the mediation of knowledge

771
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,200
which i think is really important um i'd

772
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,159
just like to um

773
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,279
say i i thought that as starting off

774
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:47,679
um

775
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:49,520
yeah statements um amanda and steve

776
00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:50,640
which were excellent and very enjoyable

777
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,960
to listen to

778
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,720
um but this point about knowledge is is

779
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,320
really important when teachers are

780
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,320
engaging with knowledge and accessing

781
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,760
knowledge that's mediated by the

782
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,440
internet

783
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,120
it really shapes the way in which

784
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,279
knowledge is constructed the internet is

785
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,960
not a neutral space google is not

786
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:08,799
neutral as as

787
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,000
as steve has highlighted but google is

788
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:13,120
just one place in which teachers access

789
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,559
knowledge

790
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,799
um

791
00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:19,279
a lot of teachers in research i've done

792
00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:20,159
use social media to access knowledge and

793
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:20,960
there's

794
00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:23,279
you know

795
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,600
one of the one of the worst places for a

796
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:28,000
lack of neutrality um it's it's

797
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:31,600
knowledge that's algorithmically shaped

798
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:34,399
social media is um embedded or is

799
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,880
permeated with a whole range of

800
00:27:34,399 --> 00:27:39,600
political and economic and commercial

801
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,480
agendas which fundamentally shape the

802
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,559
kinds of knowledge that exists on there

803
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,720
and the ways in which

804
00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:48,720
teachers interact with it and so that

805
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,000
kind of process of

806
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,919
mediation interaction and engagement

807
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,440
is it's so important that we need we

808
00:27:53,919 --> 00:27:57,440
really need to understand this in more

809
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,760
depth i think to

810
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,279
explore the ways in which teachers are

811
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,080
constructed

812
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:06,559
through their

813
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,520
interactions with perhaps non-neutral

814
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:08,640
knowledge

815
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,120
and the way in which different

816
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,919
commercial and political agendas shape

817
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:15,919
teachers perceptions of climate change

818
00:28:13,919 --> 00:28:17,440
and then how that gets reframed within

819
00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:19,440
the classroom so i think it's such an

820
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,799
important point that that we need to uh

821
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,799
need to keep coming back to really

822
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:27,520
great um thank you for that um it's

823
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,360
actually going to um shift this out over

824
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,600
to aryan you know aryan when we first

825
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:33,360
got in touch about this panel you kind

826
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,200
of flipped the com this question on its

827
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:36,960
head and kind of said

828
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,480
you know we reframed it how does the

829
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,039
curriculum

830
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,440
change the climate crisis and so i think

831
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:44,640
um coming from that direction there

832
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,399
might be different ways to interpret it

833
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,320
but it you could be talking about how

834
00:28:46,399 --> 00:28:50,399
how the way we are taught now

835
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,399
has got us to where we are but also how

836
00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:54,559
that curriculum shapes the possibilities

837
00:28:52,399 --> 00:28:56,720
of the future and potentially

838
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:58,960
kind of a maybe a kind of a just

839
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,960
transition or whatever you might see as

840
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,000
has the best way forward so could you

841
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,559
come into that yeah yeah sure um well

842
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,880
for one you could say that um

843
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:11,919
education um

844
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,799
um we should kind of interrogate the

845
00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:17,440
goodness of education in a way not all

846
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:19,520
education is good and

847
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,399
it's not like the more we have of it the

848
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,000
better

849
00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:23,840
i think we need to really think about

850
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,919
what is education strengthening in

851
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,399
society and what is it silencing or

852
00:29:25,919 --> 00:29:30,520
weakening in society and i think there

853
00:29:28,399 --> 00:29:32,480
is a hidden curriculum of

854
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,640
unsustainability in our schools and

855
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,399
universities where we cultivate certain

856
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:41,039
mindsets or certain values

857
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:44,159
that that really work against uh

858
00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:48,480
sustainability uh and just as an example

859
00:29:44,159 --> 00:29:49,440
uh the mindset of expansion and growth

860
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,039
um

861
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,240
individualism

862
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:57,039
uh taking care of yourself

863
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,960
is is very you know emphasizing personal

864
00:29:57,039 --> 00:30:02,000
growth all the time that you always must

865
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,399
develop otherwise you fall behind that

866
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:07,200
is very much uh

867
00:30:04,399 --> 00:30:09,679
promoted advocated and embedded in our

868
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,240
schools and universities

869
00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:15,120
so our curriculum you might say which

870
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,120
also is indeed siloing much knowledge

871
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,600
and and and

872
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:22,159
dissecting the world in in categories

873
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,000
boxes disciplines where we're very good

874
00:30:22,159 --> 00:30:26,399
at making distinctions drawing

875
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,120
boundaries but we're terrible at seeing

876
00:30:26,399 --> 00:30:30,799
connections seeing relations

877
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,120
interdependencies so there is this

878
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:35,279
curriculum of unsustainability that's

879
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,760
quite strong and as david orr you

880
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:40,320
probably you know david or bill from

881
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,840
oberlin college has said

882
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,000
in the past you know we don't think

883
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,559
about this critically we are basically

884
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,399
education is is creating more effective

885
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:50,320
vandals of the earth

886
00:30:48,399 --> 00:30:52,320
and the people who are the most have the

887
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,919
biggest ecological footprints are not

888
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,399
those with we you know there are not

889
00:30:53,919 --> 00:30:58,159
those growing up in the slums of mumbai

890
00:30:56,399 --> 00:31:01,679
they're people with master's degrees

891
00:30:58,159 --> 00:31:03,679
bachelor degrees and and and phds

892
00:31:01,679 --> 00:31:06,559
uh so i think this is something to think

893
00:31:03,679 --> 00:31:09,679
about so the question then is um how can

894
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:13,120
we redesign reorient education in such a

895
00:31:09,679 --> 00:31:16,159
way that we become more relational uh

896
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,480
that we can decenter the human at times

897
00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:20,559
that we can also think about uh

898
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,200
sustainable contraction

899
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:26,080
in addition to sustainable growth that

900
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,159
we also learn to live within boundaries

901
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,799
and limits that we also learn things

902
00:31:28,159 --> 00:31:33,360
like empathy and compassion where we can

903
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:35,679
change perspectives where we also had

904
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,000
learned to accept that there is no such

905
00:31:35,679 --> 00:31:40,399
thing as neutral knowledge you know we

906
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,799
need to actually politicize and we need

907
00:31:40,399 --> 00:31:44,399
to pluralize agendas and we need to

908
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:46,559
understand where does knowledge come

909
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:49,360
from who generated it with what kinds of

910
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:51,360
questions underneath um

911
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,600
and and learn to interrogate that and

912
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,240
that has to do with critical thinking of

913
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:59,279
course um and something else that i

914
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,960
think is missing and and that we need to

915
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:02,159
pay more attention to is the moral

916
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,320
compass

917
00:32:02,159 --> 00:32:07,440
we can develop all kinds of qualities

918
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:09,840
like creativity dealing with conflict

919
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,320
pluralizing

920
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:15,760
dealing with ambiguity and chaos and

921
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:18,640
complexity and uncertainty

922
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:21,440
but we can use that to to you know to

923
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,519
expand uh a market share of a company

924
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,320
that we might work

925
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:29,120
for or to increase shareholder value or

926
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:32,240
in other words the moral compass of that

927
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:36,320
we have that kind of tells us what's

928
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:39,120
good what's important what matters uh

929
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:41,120
which has to do with ethics and values

930
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,600
is often ignored in our schools and

931
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,799
universities so we also need to

932
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,440
bring in

933
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:50,159
pay more attention to ethics and values

934
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,799
in addition to all the other

935
00:32:50,159 --> 00:32:53,600
sustainability qualities competencies

936
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:55,120
like

937
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,399
systems thinking

938
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,559
which you often hear

939
00:32:56,399 --> 00:33:01,360
anticipatory thinking dealing with

940
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:03,279
uncertainty social emotional learning

941
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,640
which has been ignored in schools and

942
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:08,799
universities how do we deal with anxiety

943
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,799
stress

944
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:12,240
we kind of walk away from that in our

945
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:14,320
schools and

946
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,440
you know we cannot blame our schools

947
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,840
either it is often teachers school

948
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,000
leaders who do not get any space for

949
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,159
more relational ways of teaching and

950
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,640
learning for going outside the classroom

951
00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:29,360
for using the local environment as a

952
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,519
living laboratory for for learning about

953
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,159
existential questions

954
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:36,480
how we are affected by climate change

955
00:33:34,159 --> 00:33:39,279
how we how biodiversity in our local

956
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,200
communities is disappearing how our

957
00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:43,760
everyday problems are nested in the

958
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,919
wider global world how what we do

959
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,840
affects people far away

960
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:49,600
elsewhere but also in the future but

961
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,919
also what happens elsewhere in the world

962
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,840
how that affects us

963
00:33:51,919 --> 00:33:57,200
there's no space for that often because

964
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:59,600
we have national curricula we have a

965
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,000
very much a

966
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:05,200
curriculum focusing on measurement

967
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,120
testing excellence

968
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,359
and that is kind of killing learning in

969
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,280
our schools ironically so there's

970
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:13,919
something that needs to be happening and

971
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,320
in some countries like in like i work a

972
00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:17,919
lot in norway and in sweden but also

973
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,000
when you look at finland and a little

974
00:34:17,919 --> 00:34:22,879
bit hopefully in the netherlands there's

975
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,119
some curriculum revoir reforms taking

976
00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:27,520
place that create more space for more

977
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:29,839
localized curricula a little bit off the

978
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,960
google grid where we need to actually go

979
00:34:29,839 --> 00:34:32,800
outside

980
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,800
find knowledge and information

981
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,879
investigate ourselves through forms of

982
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,000
citizen science we become independent

983
00:34:36,879 --> 00:34:39,919
from google

984
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,399
just like the energy transition is

985
00:34:39,919 --> 00:34:44,320
trying to get localized self

986
00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:47,200
interdep independent

987
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,879
forms of energy creation food creation

988
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,960
we also need to think about knowledge

989
00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:53,200
creation in that way now these are just

990
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,760
some thoughts i want to throw uh throw

991
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,480
at you bill and the audience

992
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,480
to consider

993
00:34:59,839 --> 00:35:04,000
great um i

994
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,280
lots of ideas already on the table now

995
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,280
and i feel like i guess one thing i just

996
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,520
want to come back to is

997
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,440
i've been part of other panels or

998
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,880
watched other panels where people have

999
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,119
talked about climate change education

1000
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,520
it's been very much within the system as

1001
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:19,040
it is now as in you're talking about you

1002
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,560
know do you talk about climate science

1003
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,880
or climate mitigation or climate

1004
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,599
adaptation in a science class

1005
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,960
um and you know maybe if you're looking

1006
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:28,400
across disciplines it's kind of a

1007
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,720
special project but it's still very

1008
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,280
narrowly defined with how schools work

1009
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:35,119
now and it seems like with both of these

1010
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,520
questions we're talking about schools

1011
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:38,800
working differently education being a

1012
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,160
different

1013
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,000
experience and so i don't know if

1014
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,200
there's anything else

1015
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,800
i worry that we can also get very

1016
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,680
abstract when we talk about these things

1017
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,040
and so i don't know if there's anything

1018
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,119
else that we can

1019
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,400
hook this on to that feels more concrete

1020
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:52,800
about what that looks like what that

1021
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,880
feels like as a learner or as a teacher

1022
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,119
um anyone have any any thoughts about

1023
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,119
that

1024
00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:02,720
um i saw both kim and roll um

1025
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:04,000
kim i saw you first you got you i'm

1026
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,800
jumping

1027
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,880
i was just gonna um do a shout out

1028
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,280
really for extracurricular education

1029
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,359
which i think is is really growing

1030
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,359
around these areas around um you know

1031
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:18,160
wildlife and biodiversity

1032
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:19,839
uh the movement was in ugcse in natural

1033
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,880
history in the uk

1034
00:36:19,839 --> 00:36:22,800
um

1035
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,480
massive growth in forest schools and

1036
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,200
things i think there's kind of a demand

1037
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,720
developing from students and their

1038
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,119
parents for

1039
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:32,480
for new types of education taking kids

1040
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:34,320
out of the classroom

1041
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,920
in the way that's been described

1042
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,200
you know and i'm one of those you know

1043
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,920
i'm running summer schools i'm running

1044
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,680
weekend events i'm enticing schools

1045
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,160
through sort of well-being and field

1046
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,359
work and things out out into the woods

1047
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,960
um

1048
00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:48,560
and giving them extra bits of knowledge

1049
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,000
about climate change and biodiversity

1050
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,400
while they're doing their transect

1051
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,800
measurements um i kind of see this as a

1052
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,640
bit of a test bed for for new approaches

1053
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,480
and hopefully a bit of a trojan horse

1054
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,880
that you know if we can show how well

1055
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,960
these types of extracurricular education

1056
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,960
work maybe that's a stimulus

1057
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,320
to first for schools and the national

1058
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,400
curriculum to sort of bring some of

1059
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,280
these approaches and yeah getting out of

1060
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,000
the classroom um into the mainstream

1061
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,000
school system

1062
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,520
um great and raul can you come in on

1063
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,760
this one as well yeah so i think thanks

1064
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,440
bill this kind of fits in with the work

1065
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,160
i've been doing last couple of years

1066
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,359
which is on our project

1067
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:32,400
which really you know is about getting

1068
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:34,160
you know the down to like how do we

1069
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,240
actually implement this right and i

1070
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,640
think that's the important sort of

1071
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,640
question because the ideas everybody

1072
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,599
knows this is the most critical issue of

1073
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,160
our time but what do we do in order to

1074
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:47,119
get a potential solution right and if we

1075
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,000
say

1076
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:50,640
that

1077
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,400
solutions will be a combination of let's

1078
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,480
say

1079
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:57,119
geoengineering policy level change

1080
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,880
but also recognition that

1081
00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:01,359
the impacts of climate change and

1082
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,760
solutions would come from

1083
00:38:01,359 --> 00:38:06,560
local places by local people who

1084
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,800
experience the local sort of situation

1085
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,320
there and a combination of all of these

1086
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,560
three might lead to that right so if we

1087
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:16,480
start to move from that assumption

1088
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:18,480
that education can be situated towards

1089
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,240
trying to find the solution let's say

1090
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,640
and that sort of speaks to what amanda

1091
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:24,720
said initially and aryan too about

1092
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,720
saying you know what is the purpose of

1093
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,880
education overall

1094
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,520
right and if we start to look at these

1095
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,839
from issues and the sdgs become a good

1096
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,160
enough place to get started with no

1097
00:38:33,839 --> 00:38:38,560
poverty who doesn't want that you know

1098
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:41,119
climate change or you know biodiversity

1099
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,520
and protection of species etc etc so we

1100
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:45,040
looked at climate change right and the

1101
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,040
idea is

1102
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,520
what do we do how do you go about

1103
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,280
getting people to be aware of climate

1104
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,280
change right so let me just start off

1105
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,680
and say through the project we've done a

1106
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:58,160
survey of curriculum across the world

1107
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,160
and it is underrepresented almost in

1108
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,079
every country it doesn't matter if it's

1109
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:05,119
a developed country but it's a

1110
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:07,200
developing country the us seems to do a

1111
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:08,560
lot more compared to most countries

1112
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,960
because they seem to have a lot more

1113
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,880
freedom and flexibility in the private

1114
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,040
universities there but it is

1115
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,800
underrepresented certainly at the school

1116
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:20,000
level it is fairly

1117
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,160
you know cosmetic at the college level

1118
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,960
which is undergraduate and this is where

1119
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:27,200
we focused a lot of our material on

1120
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,760
you know where would it be offered right

1121
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,000
and so if it would be offered it would

1122
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,920
be offered in an earth sciences program

1123
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,160
it would be offered maybe in a geography

1124
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,720
program maybe in an environmental

1125
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,960
sciences program now that course if you

1126
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:43,280
start to look and see how many

1127
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,680
students are actually enrolling in those

1128
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,839
programs that would be a very small

1129
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,760
sort of number of you know when you when

1130
00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:51,119
you look at who are enrolling in

1131
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,359
colleges right

1132
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:55,599
psychology is very important

1133
00:39:53,359 --> 00:39:57,760
popular economics is very popular

1134
00:39:55,599 --> 00:40:00,640
sociology is very popular and so on so

1135
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,520
forth so so our goal was to say that you

1136
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,280
know

1137
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,760
curriculum

1138
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,839
reform takes time if you want climate

1139
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,240
change to be introduced

1140
00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:12,160
to everyone who comes into college and i

1141
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:14,640
get it that you know i'm dealing with a

1142
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,200
constituency who can afford to go to

1143
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,280
college so let's keep that aside and the

1144
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,359
formal education system so let's just

1145
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,160
keep that aside for a second we realize

1146
00:40:21,359 --> 00:40:23,200
that

1147
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,000
but

1148
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,400
you know uh the proportion of people who

1149
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,640
would get this information in an earth

1150
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,960
sciences or geography program would be

1151
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,040
very very small right

1152
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,359
instead if you want to take it to

1153
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,760
everyone how do we go about doing this

1154
00:40:37,359 --> 00:40:40,720
so we started looking and seeing ways in

1155
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,599
which

1156
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:46,240
we could develop lesson plans that

1157
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:47,839
teachers of all disciplines could use in

1158
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,760
their teaching

1159
00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:51,680
what would they use they would teach a

1160
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,680
topic in their discipline but we would

1161
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:57,119
provide them with the climate change

1162
00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:00,079
case study exercise or hands-on activity

1163
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:02,800
we focus as much as possible on local

1164
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:04,240
resources rm that might help to sort of

1165
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,400
understand that

1166
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:09,040
the learning is best done in your own

1167
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:11,839
local situation so let's give local

1168
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:14,319
examples local case studies maybe even a

1169
00:41:11,839 --> 00:41:16,880
story an amanda that is incredibly

1170
00:41:14,319 --> 00:41:19,119
powerful when you just put in a you know

1171
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,200
local story about an impact which is

1172
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:23,119
taking place to somebody you know and

1173
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,040
that person relates to it from that

1174
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:27,440
location you start with that

1175
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,520
and then you put in a hands-on activity

1176
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,839
but you're doing it while you're

1177
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,680
teaching a topic in the discipline

1178
00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:36,240
right so what we're trying to do is

1179
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,160
we're trying to basically integrate it

1180
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,280
into the teaching the day-to-day

1181
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,440
teaching

1182
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,079
across disciplines now why are we trying

1183
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,319
to do this well number one and i think

1184
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:48,640
you mentioned who's trained to teach

1185
00:41:46,319 --> 00:41:51,040
climate change at this point

1186
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,119
we didn't have it well you know most of

1187
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,440
us would not have had it in our

1188
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:57,680
undergraduate training let's say

1189
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,760
number one right so where are we trained

1190
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,400
to do it number two teachers are

1191
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,960
incredibly stressed for time right

1192
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,040
three they are given these syllabi by

1193
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,599
you know boards and

1194
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,200
uh you know higher up authorities and

1195
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:12,960
they have to stick to that so their

1196
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,960
primary job is

1197
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,200
not to like you know spark interest or

1198
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,520
to make somebody aware etcetera etcetera

1199
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,079
it is like i got to finish my what is

1200
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,920
given to me that's my job right so how

1201
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:25,680
do we do this so we know we sit down and

1202
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,440
we say okay if you are a teacher in the

1203
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,440
humanities

1204
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,680
and you are doing a senior level class

1205
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:34,079
on post-colonial studies here's an essay

1206
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,000
by the picture they read that and you

1207
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:38,240
know try to link it to climate change if

1208
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,480
you're a teacher in economics here's

1209
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:42,000
tragedy of the commons use it to

1210
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,480
understand you know

1211
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,800
things related to emissions or so if

1212
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:49,839
you're a math teacher you have to teach

1213
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,720
you know calculus here's carbon dioxide

1214
00:42:49,839 --> 00:42:55,599
data and this is a hands-on activity to

1215
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:57,200
you know go ahead to learn that right so

1216
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:59,520
you know this way we've kind of gone

1217
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,760
across disciplines we have 10 of them

1218
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:04,240
and we managed to sort of put together a

1219
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,880
fair number of resources to actually

1220
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:10,560
implement this right and i think this is

1221
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:12,160
sort of one uh you know effort on on our

1222
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,040
part it's small and it's proof of

1223
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:17,119
concept still we have close to 600

1224
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:20,079
resources there right now

1225
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:22,160
uh which potentially could be a way in

1226
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:24,319
which you know we get people aware of

1227
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,480
climate change to begin with

1228
00:43:24,319 --> 00:43:28,800
and just finish up by saying that

1229
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,839
imagine a kid who has gone through a

1230
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,240
class

1231
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:34,319
of you know briefly understanding what

1232
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:36,400
is the science of climate change then

1233
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:38,800
going to an economics class and learning

1234
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,640
about cost benefit analysis

1235
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:43,200
and microeconomics through climate

1236
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,599
change and then going to a biology class

1237
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:48,079
and learning about biodiversity using a

1238
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:50,400
climate related example then goes to a

1239
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:52,160
math class and learns calculus and

1240
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,520
understands co2 emissions are

1241
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,599
responsible

1242
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,760
then goes to a you know

1243
00:43:55,599 --> 00:44:00,640
psychology class and understands what is

1244
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,960
climate psychiatry and you know how is

1245
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,359
mental health getting affected by that

1246
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,960
goes into history and understands you

1247
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:08,960
know how civilizations might have

1248
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,079
declined due to climate change in the

1249
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,400
past

1250
00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:14,640
that kid and you put it with examples

1251
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,960
related to their location potentially in

1252
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:20,000
their language which we're working on

1253
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,599
that kid would know more than me

1254
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,160
right and that kid would then

1255
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:27,359
potentially come up with a solution

1256
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:29,760
which would work for his or her location

1257
00:44:27,359 --> 00:44:31,280
so that's sort of been the driver one

1258
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,960
part for me and i don't know if this

1259
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,520
talks to anyone else i'll stop after

1260
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,040
this which is for me the personal driver

1261
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,560
was

1262
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,560
you know how do you democratize

1263
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,480
education while you're doing this so the

1264
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,440
digital allows for that so we have

1265
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,440
digital tools number two you know a

1266
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:50,319
fantastic lecture that stephen might

1267
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:53,119
give in his classroom if it is out on

1268
00:44:50,319 --> 00:44:55,200
youtube i will collate and curate that

1269
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:58,319
and make it available to

1270
00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:01,280
teachers across the world to also use it

1271
00:44:58,319 --> 00:45:03,119
we magnify this by getting experts from

1272
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,680
around the world who created so much

1273
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:08,079
information already out there we can get

1274
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,520
into whether that information is

1275
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:11,280
you know

1276
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,680
doctored for rack of another word

1277
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:16,319
through google and other search engines

1278
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,319
but it becomes one way in which you can

1279
00:45:16,319 --> 00:45:20,720
get quality education and make it

1280
00:45:18,319 --> 00:45:21,440
accessible to all so that's just you

1281
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,520
know

1282
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:26,079
our project which kind of talks about

1283
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,079
the practical nature in which we are

1284
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:29,839
trying to implement this

1285
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:31,760
by not shifting the curriculum

1286
00:45:29,839 --> 00:45:33,280
completely it will take time

1287
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,440
until that happens because that's a

1288
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,760
bureaucratic process but

1289
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:40,079
while we can actually get teachers to do

1290
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:43,200
it in their day-to-day activities itself

1291
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:44,640
without stressing them or burdening them

1292
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,400
excessively

1293
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,440
so that they could actually you know

1294
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,119
impart that knowledge goes to the kids

1295
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,480
they come up with solutions for the

1296
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:55,280
future

1297
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,280
let's stop there

1298
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,400
stephen did you want to follow up on

1299
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:03,280
that yes okay and i'm just going to kind

1300
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,280
of make a point um kind of like using

1301
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,960
some of those points that are always um

1302
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,880
to kind of um

1303
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,960
like speak back to one of the

1304
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,280
things that kim was talking about and

1305
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,280
and i guess i just wanted to kind of um

1306
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:18,800
pick up on the the use of

1307
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:22,640
extracurricular um things um for climate

1308
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:25,040
change work and and i guess my point is

1309
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,720
probably slightly more um like i think

1310
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,680
critical or cynical is the right way of

1311
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:32,000
putting it um but about the um the kind

1312
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:34,640
of the way in which um kind of

1313
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,680
extracurricular work uh currently has a

1314
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,760
kind of um a role to play so i think um

1315
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,319
first kind of thing i'd say is that the

1316
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,960
the way in which um that kind of splits

1317
00:46:42,319 --> 00:46:47,760
along so that that being engagement in

1318
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:52,079
extracurricular stuff and splits along

1319
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:53,680
kind of um classed and raced and type

1320
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:56,480
and issues

1321
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,240
means that yeah the types of people who

1322
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,480
are currently engaging in that kind of

1323
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:03,040
work and kind of represent one

1324
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,400
particular um normally kind of like very

1325
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,640
privileged

1326
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,720
um kind of part of the population and

1327
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:11,040
the other i was interested in the um

1328
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:14,160
thing kim he said about um if we can

1329
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,760
kind of show that it works then that's

1330
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,520
maybe a kind of a way in and so there's

1331
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,359
kind of a certainly kind of like greater

1332
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,559
interest and and these things are like i

1333
00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:21,839
mean they're completely sold like

1334
00:47:20,559 --> 00:47:24,480
absolutely brilliant things really

1335
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:26,400
important um but i think this kind of

1336
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,559
point about if we can show how well they

1337
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,160
work and

1338
00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:32,400
and it's related to the things other

1339
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:35,359
people have said about the importance of

1340
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:38,079
these big narratives about how we define

1341
00:47:35,359 --> 00:47:39,839
a good education system and means that

1342
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:41,599
for something to be able to be shown to

1343
00:47:39,839 --> 00:47:44,559
kind of work well in education at the

1344
00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:46,960
minute and really the kind of the

1345
00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:49,280
dominant paradigm is so reductionist

1346
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,880
around grades and we've seen recently

1347
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,200
the kind of link between particular

1348
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,200
subjects at degree level and earnings

1349
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,040
and the kind of the the narrative that's

1350
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,680
told around what counts as kind of

1351
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,839
quality um education that's working well

1352
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,400
um is really impoverished and so i think

1353
00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:07,359
that um actually the kind of the the

1354
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,119
most urgent thing currently are these

1355
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:11,200
questions about teacher professional

1356
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:13,119
development and about the ways in which

1357
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,760
individual teachers who are

1358
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:16,720
already in front of and accessing and

1359
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,599
teaching

1360
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:22,240
vast numbers of young people worldwide

1361
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:24,160
and mean and the kinds of freedoms that

1362
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:26,640
they have got even in the kind of most

1363
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,960
rigid formal systems and actually this

1364
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,800
work they're doing in terms of curating

1365
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,720
selecting particular forms of

1366
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,880
information and knowledge and the ways

1367
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:36,960
in which they're kind of critically or

1368
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,400
not engaging with the kind of

1369
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,119
presentation of particular narratives

1370
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:43,680
and so on and and in contrast to that

1371
00:48:41,119 --> 00:48:45,599
the kind of complete lack of climate

1372
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,920
change education that they many of them

1373
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:50,079
had in their own formal education and

1374
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,800
means that for me this kind of how do we

1375
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:55,040
equip teachers how do we kind of empower

1376
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,480
teachers how do we do the kind of work

1377
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,800
and that we're all talking about in

1378
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,839
terms of um trying to make little subtle

1379
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,920
shifts how can we make maths um examples

1380
00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:05,920
not just about you spent this much money

1381
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,040
how much change is there and how to kind

1382
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,960
of make more money and what's the

1383
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,319
interest on this but instead to ask

1384
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,040
about these bigger kind of questions

1385
00:49:10,319 --> 00:49:14,640
about climate and so on and so and while

1386
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,319
like i'm completely in favor of this

1387
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,480
extracurricular work and i think it's um

1388
00:49:16,319 --> 00:49:21,440
fantastic i think i'm probably like very

1389
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,280
um uh cynical about the like the real

1390
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,680
potential for that to kind of affect

1391
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,839
broader change and so you see this kind

1392
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,359
of like how can we upskill teachers how

1393
00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:30,319
can we um

1394
00:49:29,359 --> 00:49:32,559
provide this kind of professional

1395
00:49:30,319 --> 00:49:34,960
development that being something that um

1396
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:37,520
actually presents across multiple

1397
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,280
different curricula um and across many

1398
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,119
different types of kind of exam

1399
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,440
certifications and so on and some really

1400
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:46,000
kind of and like subversive let's get

1401
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,280
attempts maybe um to reframe these

1402
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,680
debates and to ask some quite different

1403
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,680
questions

1404
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:55,280
um

1405
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,520
i know both kim and arya want to come in

1406
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,960
on this one um kim did you have a quick

1407
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,240
follow-up

1408
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,240
yeah just quickly because i know you

1409
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:04,480
want to move on um yeah i just wanted to

1410
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:07,040
say that in the experiences i've had

1411
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:09,040
with kids on summer schools and

1412
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,920
um just coming up sort of for day trips

1413
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,559
and things

1414
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,680
that the enthusiasm and the excitement

1415
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:15,280
when you start having these

1416
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,280
interdisciplinary conversations is

1417
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,480
incredible they really love it

1418
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,240
and

1419
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,079
you know we've had conversations which

1420
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:23,920
bring in finance and economics and

1421
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:26,319
politics and we talk about you know the

1422
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:28,480
local politics national politics the

1423
00:50:26,319 --> 00:50:30,160
science how is science done how is how

1424
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,400
do people know what the scientists are

1425
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,960
saying you know that i think the kids

1426
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,920
are i love making these connections but

1427
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,400
it can be done quite quickly and more

1428
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:43,359
overtly we're just giving them the forum

1429
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:45,440
to do so um so i think that what they

1430
00:50:43,359 --> 00:50:47,359
are learning amazing things and with the

1431
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,520
opportunities to make connections they

1432
00:50:47,359 --> 00:50:52,160
they've really got from there

1433
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,319
that's all i wanted

1434
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:57,119
um and aryan did you have a follow-up as

1435
00:50:54,319 --> 00:50:59,040
well yeah i think uh you know it i i

1436
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:00,960
agree that the extracurricular

1437
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:05,119
activities uh

1438
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:07,680
can provide an opening for engaging uh

1439
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:10,240
in these big existential questions like

1440
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:12,720
climate change

1441
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:14,480
at the same time i do think that we we

1442
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:17,599
need to

1443
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:19,440
kind of upscale the informal learning

1444
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:20,800
and bring it more into the classroom in

1445
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:23,680
a way there are so many everyday

1446
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,040
activities whether it's you know the the

1447
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,599
things that we eat

1448
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,079
every day uh the way we walk to school

1449
00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:31,920
or drive to school depending on where

1450
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:35,040
you are or bike to school

1451
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:37,440
um the way we deal with water in our

1452
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:40,319
communities the way we deal with extreme

1453
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,319
weather events

1454
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:46,160
so i i think that should become more in

1455
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:48,319
embedded in the curriculum rather than

1456
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,800
than resorting to leaving schools and

1457
00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:52,160
finding these spaces outside of our

1458
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,599
schools i think it's it's a

1459
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,000
responsibility

1460
00:51:53,599 --> 00:51:57,520
for for our schools to to

1461
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,319
to uh

1462
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:02,640
to open up uh uh these connections

1463
00:52:00,319 --> 00:52:04,559
between the life world of the of the

1464
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,440
students and the and the local

1465
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:09,680
environment and existential issues that

1466
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,920
emerged there and this can be done in

1467
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,760
very concrete ways i mean already some

1468
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,760
examples were mentioned of going

1469
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:18,559
outdoors and and the monitor you could

1470
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:21,119
do monitoring of biodiversity which is

1471
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:24,480
done in communities of water quality of

1472
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:27,839
noise noise levels and

1473
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:30,079
monitoring diets and and and seeing how

1474
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:32,800
you can reduce uh

1475
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:35,440
meat protein intakes and diets very

1476
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,599
important to also mind the gap between

1477
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,359
you know being aware and understanding

1478
00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:41,359
these issues and actually doing

1479
00:52:39,359 --> 00:52:43,559
something about them in our everyday

1480
00:52:41,359 --> 00:52:45,359
lives and also pointing out the

1481
00:52:43,559 --> 00:52:46,880
inconsistencies and sometimes the

1482
00:52:45,359 --> 00:52:50,160
hypocrisy

1483
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:53,280
we must avoid uh to use greta toonback's

1484
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:55,040
words a blah blah blah curriculum

1485
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,880
uh you know and there's a lot of talk

1486
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,040
about this but not a lot of action and

1487
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:02,240
if we do that they do that and then it

1488
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:05,200
will lead to maybe skepticism cynicism

1489
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:07,599
apathy powerlessness which is the exact

1490
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:10,400
opposite of what we really want to

1491
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:11,599
achieve so this combination so somebody

1492
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,400
asked the question what does the

1493
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:16,880
sustainability education or pedagogy

1494
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,880
look like i think it is the relational

1495
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:21,119
seeing the connections it is the

1496
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:23,040
critical asking difficult questions

1497
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:25,680
becoming uncomfortable even

1498
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,760
uncomfortable together about

1499
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:30,240
these inconsistencies in our everyday

1500
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:32,400
lives and the fact that you know like

1501
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:36,559
this is politicizing why do we still

1502
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:38,160
subsidize kerosene uh um why is there a

1503
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:41,760
lot of subsidy for industrial

1504
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:44,240
agriculture within the european uh

1505
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,559
uh so these are difficult questions why

1506
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:50,000
do we have uh the way why do we treat

1507
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:52,480
animals the way we do in in in in bio

1508
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:55,200
industry um

1509
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,440
these are so that's that's

1510
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,400
the critical kind of interrogation of

1511
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:03,200
our everyday ways of being and and and

1512
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:05,880
problematizing the normal and and and

1513
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:08,319
making the common less common is the

1514
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:10,880
transgressiveness i would call it in

1515
00:54:08,319 --> 00:54:12,640
academic terms is also important and

1516
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,559
then of course the ethical which i've

1517
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,760
already mentioned and the transformative

1518
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:17,920
they're actually

1519
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,240
learning to make change there are some

1520
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:23,040
great examples of repair cafes where we

1521
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:26,160
extend lifetimes life cycles and

1522
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:29,119
wherever young people repair old vacuum

1523
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,880
cleaners where they repair old furniture

1524
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:33,599
and where they actually

1525
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:35,920
have a little entrepreneurial enterprise

1526
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:36,799
in the school where they actually sell

1527
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,799
these

1528
00:54:36,799 --> 00:54:41,200
things to to people who

1529
00:54:38,799 --> 00:54:43,839
who want to support their work but also

1530
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:46,160
who need and a vacuum cleaner very cheap

1531
00:54:43,839 --> 00:54:48,640
and that money is then used for in a

1532
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,480
kind of a micro economy to purchase

1533
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,559
solar panels where they have a

1534
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,000
discussion about what kind of panels do

1535
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:56,559
we need then

1536
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,720
which panels are the most sustainable or

1537
00:54:56,559 --> 00:55:00,559
are they made in a fair way

1538
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:02,640
and this is also i think important that

1539
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:05,040
we do not

1540
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,559
reduce the sustainability puzzle to the

1541
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,559
climate crisis

1542
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:11,680
it is a bigger crisis it is actually

1543
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:14,640
it's a crisis of of my the way we think

1544
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:16,960
it's a crisis of values it's a crisis of

1545
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,440
what does it mean to be human and i

1546
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:22,559
think this is often neglected we talk

1547
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:24,079
about her pista dutch pedagogue talks

1548
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:25,839
about three

1549
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:28,319
important

1550
00:55:25,839 --> 00:55:30,160
purposes of education qualification

1551
00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:32,240
which has to do with skills and

1552
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,400
qualities that we need to develop to do

1553
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:38,079
to function well in our lives and our

1554
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:41,839
work then socialization the the social

1555
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:43,760
the social cultural norms and and ways

1556
00:55:41,839 --> 00:55:45,680
of being that we want to hand over that

1557
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,000
we find important

1558
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,359
and then subjectivification

1559
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,359
which is about

1560
00:55:49,359 --> 00:55:53,200
creating space for people to reflect on

1561
00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:55,119
who they are where they are to be who

1562
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,839
they are becoming whether they can

1563
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:59,760
become who they want to be in the world

1564
00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:01,760
what keeps them from becoming who they

1565
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,839
are are they being notched into becoming

1566
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:06,720
something they don't want to be how do

1567
00:56:03,839 --> 00:56:08,880
these processes work and these these are

1568
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:11,680
again have to do with social emotional

1569
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:13,920
aspects that we often neglect

1570
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,640
in education so when we talk about a

1571
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,960
pedagogy for sustainability

1572
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:21,680
those are critical questions we need to

1573
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,680
be addressing

1574
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,880
i'm following up on that

1575
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,240
kind of fiesta's model um

1576
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,920
kind of the purpose of education i kind

1577
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:32,640
of wanted to bring james you into this

1578
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:34,640
thinking about kind of the future of

1579
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,599
skills knowledge and work um you know

1580
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,240
what

1581
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:39,440
what education might be preparing young

1582
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:41,040
people for

1583
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,319
um and

1584
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,599
um

1585
00:56:42,319 --> 00:56:44,400
i guess you know again with that future

1586
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:45,920
lens

1587
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,760
what are the what are the future green

1588
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,720
jobs or green skills that that we need

1589
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,640
to be thinking about through the

1590
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:52,079
education system so um james do you want

1591
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,240
to come in on that

1592
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:56,240
yeah it's an important point and

1593
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:59,040
in a sense i suppose the the usual way

1594
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:00,319
of addressing this issue is to talk

1595
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,480
about the

1596
00:57:00,319 --> 00:57:04,880
ways in which the nature of work are

1597
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:08,640
changing radically and rapidly

1598
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:10,319
with increased digitalization ai

1599
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,000
automation

1600
00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:13,760
and how that intersects with

1601
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,280
climate-constrained environments the

1602
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,680
nature of work changing within those

1603
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,920
sorts of concept contexts

1604
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,480
um and the

1605
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,079
more broad ways in which green jobs need

1606
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,160
to

1607
00:57:24,079 --> 00:57:27,839
permeate our economy and the kinds of

1608
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,760
skills that are needed but i don't want

1609
00:57:27,839 --> 00:57:31,040
to do any of that i don't want to talk

1610
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,119
to that particular i want to flip the

1611
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,040
question around a little bit um it'd be

1612
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:36,799
a bit naughty if that's okay

1613
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,400
um i think

1614
00:57:36,799 --> 00:57:40,240
yeah clearly

1615
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,359
appropriate and adaptable education and

1616
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,880
training

1617
00:57:41,359 --> 00:57:45,359
is critical

1618
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:47,520
for ensuring young children as young

1619
00:57:45,359 --> 00:57:49,119
people and children have relevant

1620
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,359
knowledge and skills to engage with the

1621
00:57:49,119 --> 00:57:53,839
climate crisis and become responsible

1622
00:57:51,359 --> 00:57:56,720
climate informed and climate active

1623
00:57:53,839 --> 00:57:58,319
citizens and amanda and steve did really

1624
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,400
well and i thought they highlighted this

1625
00:57:58,319 --> 00:58:02,559
really nicely in their emphasis on

1626
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:05,040
critical citizenship

1627
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:06,319
i think there's a danger in this or

1628
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:08,720
partly

1629
00:58:06,319 --> 00:58:11,720
a danger of reinforcing neoliberal

1630
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:14,559
discourses here and emphasizing

1631
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:16,559
responsibilization on individuals

1632
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:18,960
um and individual young people

1633
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:23,040
particularly reinforcing the message

1634
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:25,359
that the climate crisis is rooted or the

1635
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:29,359
solution to the climate crisis is rooted

1636
00:58:25,359 --> 00:58:31,280
in small scale individualized activity

1637
00:58:29,359 --> 00:58:34,559
where it's not you know we know it's not

1638
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:36,079
it's it's it's about systemic change

1639
00:58:34,559 --> 00:58:38,319
it's about structural change it's about

1640
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:40,079
economic change

1641
00:58:38,319 --> 00:58:42,240
and it's addressing the the kind of

1642
00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:44,319
inherent structural violence that

1643
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,240
companies and firms are doing to our

1644
00:58:44,319 --> 00:58:48,640
ecosystem

1645
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,799
and so i think you know actually

1646
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:53,680
taking a step back and and looking at

1647
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:56,880
things at a system level in terms of

1648
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:59,359
skills is is a more appropriate response

1649
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,880
and so a major strand of my work is

1650
00:58:59,359 --> 00:59:03,520
trying to look at

1651
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,480
things at this systems level and examine

1652
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,400
how

1653
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,319
education and training systems intersect

1654
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,839
with the economy and this changing

1655
00:59:08,319 --> 00:59:10,799
nature of work

1656
00:59:09,839 --> 00:59:13,599
but

1657
00:59:10,799 --> 00:59:15,200
for me this intersection is a key

1658
00:59:13,599 --> 00:59:17,200
mechanism for

1659
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,359
the the long-term structural and social

1660
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:22,079
change that's needed to fundamentally

1661
00:59:19,359 --> 00:59:22,880
disrupt the currently destructive ways

1662
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:24,559
which

1663
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,400
you know our economies and labour

1664
00:59:24,559 --> 00:59:28,480
markets are operating

1665
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,880
i think this comes down to the the point

1666
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:33,200
that iron made about the the hidden

1667
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:35,359
curriculum of unsustainability

1668
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:38,000
and how these sort of neoliberal

1669
00:59:35,359 --> 00:59:40,079
assumptions are embedded within it

1670
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:43,359
and we end up reproducing a sort of

1671
00:59:40,079 --> 00:59:45,040
cycle of um constant growth

1672
00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:47,280
or an assumption that constant growth is

1673
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:49,359
the only way forward rooted in the sort

1674
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,440
of individualistic

1675
00:59:49,359 --> 00:59:53,040
idea of the self

1676
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,440
so i think one way of thinking about

1677
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,359
this and thinking about this disruption

1678
00:59:55,440 --> 01:00:00,079
is about problematizing the relationship

1679
00:59:57,359 --> 01:00:01,280
between skill supply and demand

1680
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:03,760
education

1681
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,520
training systems are usually positioned

1682
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,119
as responding to employer skills

1683
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:10,480
requirements right

1684
01:00:07,119 --> 01:00:12,319
so supplying labour markets with young

1685
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:16,000
people with the skills that meet

1686
01:00:12,319 --> 01:00:18,880
employers demands and this is is largely

1687
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:21,280
a one-way linear relationship

1688
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:23,200
so in in terms of the climate crisis

1689
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,760
this can be seen as companies developing

1690
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,599
green jobs usually under pressure or you

1691
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,040
know under increasing pressure from the

1692
01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:30,160
state from governments maybe from

1693
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,079
society

1694
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,799
and education in training systems

1695
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:36,880
responding by helping students develop

1696
01:00:34,799 --> 01:00:39,280
green skills

1697
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,319
and of course you know this is important

1698
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,079
but

1699
01:00:40,319 --> 01:00:43,440
if we're thinking about disrupting this

1700
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:45,599
i think we can

1701
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:48,319
we can actually challenge this linear

1702
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:50,720
understanding of skill supply and demand

1703
01:00:48,319 --> 01:00:52,400
and adopt a more cyclical framework for

1704
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:55,520
thinking critically about

1705
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,559
education and training in ways that can

1706
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,440
actually

1707
01:00:56,559 --> 01:01:01,359
shape labour markets and economies

1708
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:04,640
making them greener and more sustainable

1709
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:06,480
rather than simply responding to them

1710
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:08,319
for me this this work

1711
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,079
you know this looks at helping how

1712
01:01:08,319 --> 01:01:12,960
students can envision green futures and

1713
01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:12,960
green careers

1714
01:01:13,359 --> 01:01:17,200
and by doing that i think young people

1715
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:20,000
can be empowered to be agents of

1716
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:22,000
economic change

1717
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,280
by developing green skills for

1718
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,200
themselves

1719
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,720
being being agentic in their skills

1720
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,960
formation process

1721
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,960
and envisioning

1722
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,440
sustainable careers

1723
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,799
and forcing employers to then respond to

1724
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,559
their demands

1725
01:01:34,799 --> 01:01:38,960
for greener careers

1726
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:40,319
greener futures as the next generation

1727
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,400
of workers

1728
01:01:40,319 --> 01:01:45,520
you know this sounds

1729
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:47,119
quite utopian in a sense it sounds

1730
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,200
i don't know sort of rooted in marx's

1731
01:01:47,119 --> 01:01:51,119
principles in a way but

1732
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:54,319
i don't think it is i think there's a

1733
01:01:51,119 --> 01:01:56,799
genuine possibility here for change

1734
01:01:54,319 --> 01:02:00,720
for rooting economic change in students

1735
01:01:56,799 --> 01:02:02,799
agencies now recently i did a um an hrc

1736
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:04,559
funded project

1737
01:02:02,799 --> 01:02:06,559
where i worked with

1738
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:10,799
the ceos and chairs

1739
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:12,400
of um about a third of the ftse 100

1740
01:02:10,799 --> 01:02:14,160
um

1741
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,760
you know i interviewed all of these uh

1742
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,079
these business leaders

1743
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:20,880
and one of the the major messages that

1744
01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:23,680
was coming across was a shift that they

1745
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:25,599
were describing from

1746
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,839
shareholder capitalism where the

1747
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:30,400
emphasis and purpose of business and the

1748
01:02:27,839 --> 01:02:32,720
labor market is on maximizing profits

1749
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:35,839
to stakeholder capitalism

1750
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,839
where the needs of the wider

1751
01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:39,520
stakeholders and increasingly that

1752
01:02:37,839 --> 01:02:42,480
includes society

1753
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,760
are driving the ways in which firms work

1754
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,440
so

1755
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,760
change is possible one of the things in

1756
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,119
which these participants were really

1757
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,559
emphasizing

1758
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:53,039
was that

1759
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:56,000
a new generation of employers also have

1760
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:58,720
employees were demanding businesses

1761
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,400
change to be more values led and values

1762
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:03,039
driven

1763
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:05,680
and so they were then having to respond

1764
01:03:03,039 --> 01:03:08,720
to these values and taking take a stance

1765
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,680
on key issues like climate change like

1766
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,079
um

1767
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:14,160
a whole range of issues and so i think

1768
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:16,640
by empowering young people to actually

1769
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:18,960
put themselves in positions to change

1770
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,640
the lane market or to to demand change

1771
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,359
of the labor market

1772
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:25,119
we can we can start to

1773
01:03:23,359 --> 01:03:27,680
get some kind of structural change

1774
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:29,359
within the economy

1775
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:33,119
but how do we do that i mean you talked

1776
01:03:29,359 --> 01:03:35,599
about sort of practical aspects of this

1777
01:03:33,119 --> 01:03:38,160
um and rooting this in

1778
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:41,920
in reality in some kind of tangible

1779
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:42,880
sense of of doing something for me

1780
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,599
um

1781
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:48,799
i think helping young people to do this

1782
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:50,559
kind of envisioning of future careers of

1783
01:03:48,799 --> 01:03:54,880
futures and future skills

1784
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:56,880
is rooted in uh storytelling skills

1785
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:59,280
um these help young people to think

1786
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,880
creatively about different futures

1787
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,039
uh and so some colleagues and i have

1788
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,839
developed what we've called a narrative

1789
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:07,599
skills framework for the kinds of skills

1790
01:04:05,839 --> 01:04:09,920
that help people

1791
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:12,799
deal with different kinds of futures and

1792
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:16,880
think through different kinds of futures

1793
01:04:12,799 --> 01:04:19,599
uh we've published that in a um a

1794
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:22,079
report called storycraft where you can

1795
01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:23,760
unpack some of those skills these skills

1796
01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:26,559
they're not they're not sort of generic

1797
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:28,319
transferable skills that help people

1798
01:04:26,559 --> 01:04:29,760
think about futures i think they're

1799
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:31,920
rooted in subject knowledge they're

1800
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:34,799
rooted in different forms of knowledge

1801
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,880
this is where the issue of um i think

1802
01:04:34,799 --> 01:04:38,559
the humanities comes in a lot of a lot

1803
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,799
of the skills associated with stories

1804
01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:43,119
having narrative craft

1805
01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:45,119
are rooted in the humanities but they go

1806
01:04:43,119 --> 01:04:47,119
broader than that because what we're

1807
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:50,480
talking about are

1808
01:04:47,119 --> 01:04:52,839
complex futures that draw on knowledge

1809
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:56,240
and knowledge of bodies

1810
01:04:52,839 --> 01:04:58,960
from a whole range of disciplines

1811
01:04:56,240 --> 01:05:02,079
and so this is where the importance of

1812
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:04,880
actually interdisciplinary work comes in

1813
01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:06,880
i think that that aspect of narrative

1814
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:10,000
narrative skills and interdisciplinary

1815
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:11,920
work is crucial in actually thinking

1816
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,200
about the future of work and the future

1817
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,359
of skills

1818
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,640
and driving some kind of

1819
01:05:15,359 --> 01:05:18,960
systemic

1820
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:22,240
and structural change within the economy

1821
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:23,920
in the late market

1822
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,760
i'm great thanks for that i mean that's

1823
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,680
kind of nice bring us full circle back

1824
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,440
to kind of some of our starting ideas in

1825
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,200
terms of the humanities and how we

1826
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,640
approach this um

1827
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,559
i've got just one more question before

1828
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,599
we start going through the q a and

1829
01:05:34,559 --> 01:05:37,280
bringing in

1830
01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:39,359
um some some of the

1831
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,799
audience questions um

1832
01:05:39,359 --> 01:05:41,839
but

1833
01:05:40,799 --> 01:05:43,359
some of this

1834
01:05:41,839 --> 01:05:45,520
talk there's kind of a talk about kind

1835
01:05:43,359 --> 01:05:47,680
of story and values and i think the

1836
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:49,119
emotional angle of engaging with climate

1837
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,720
change and and for young people as

1838
01:05:49,119 --> 01:05:53,839
learners to be

1839
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:55,440
facing this existential crisis and and

1840
01:05:53,839 --> 01:05:57,839
so much kind of uncertainty about their

1841
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,680
future instability kind of traditional

1842
01:05:57,839 --> 01:06:02,160
systems and careers kind of falling

1843
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,599
apart so it's just a question i'm just

1844
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,440
going to pose this to you kim actually

1845
01:06:03,599 --> 01:06:07,359
since you've been directly engaging with

1846
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:09,920
lots of of young people

1847
01:06:07,359 --> 01:06:11,280
um climate strikers students in your

1848
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,480
different programs

1849
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,799
um

1850
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,960
how does that come up in terms of of the

1851
01:06:14,799 --> 01:06:18,400
skills young people need to

1852
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,240
be emotionally resilient

1853
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,640
in the in the face of climate change and

1854
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,240
kind of and navigate this uncertain

1855
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,640
future

1856
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:28,559
gosh whenever i think about this um

1857
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:30,000
question i i really relate it back to my

1858
01:06:28,559 --> 01:06:31,200
business career

1859
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,680
um

1860
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:35,359
and thinking about how poor adults are

1861
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:37,520
at bringing their emotions into their

1862
01:06:35,359 --> 01:06:39,839
into real life and how their you know

1863
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:41,359
all our emotions are squished out of us

1864
01:06:39,839 --> 01:06:43,599
and i was in the fortunate position to

1865
01:06:41,359 --> 01:06:46,400
be able to run a business as a single

1866
01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:48,400
mum uh with that with a young child and

1867
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,240
had to take all my emotions and trials

1868
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,720
and tribulations to work and as a result

1869
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,640
had to allow all my employees to do so

1870
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:56,319
and as a result of that we ended up with

1871
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,680
an organization where everybody was

1872
01:06:56,319 --> 01:06:59,039
allowed to bring everything to work and

1873
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:01,440
it worked really well we had a very

1874
01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:03,280
strong team and from that i started sort

1875
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,160
of following other business leaders who

1876
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,720
were

1877
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:09,280
embracing that um kind of just being

1878
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:11,039
nice to your employees vibe

1879
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,880
um and it you know it just strikes you

1880
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:13,920
how little of that there is around still

1881
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,920
and that's

1882
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,000
what i can see this is the same in

1883
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,440
schools and that we're not allowing

1884
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,319
children to bring their emotions to

1885
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,039
school

1886
01:07:20,319 --> 01:07:25,280
we control behavior rather than looking

1887
01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:28,640
at the underlying causes of that

1888
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:30,880
behavior and there is some fantastic um

1889
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:32,480
work being done about particularly in

1890
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,640
primary schools about helping them

1891
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,319
identify what their emotions are to name

1892
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,559
their emotions and allow them to bring

1893
01:07:36,319 --> 01:07:40,160
that to bring those to the party

1894
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:41,920
and i feel that that's something that

1895
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:44,720
needs to be carried through the whole

1896
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:47,119
school system to to the older kids too

1897
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:49,920
um i mean again i think with the sort of

1898
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:51,920
taking kids outdoors it changes the vibe

1899
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,839
between the teachers and the students

1900
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:56,240
and allows the people to be a bit more

1901
01:07:53,839 --> 01:07:57,839
human and to get out of the constraints

1902
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:59,920
of the functionality that you have in

1903
01:07:57,839 --> 01:08:01,839
school there's this sort of constraint

1904
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:03,599
constrained conversations and

1905
01:08:01,839 --> 01:08:04,720
relationships you have in school because

1906
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:07,039
everybody's trying to keep their

1907
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:09,680
distance from everybody else

1908
01:08:07,039 --> 01:08:12,000
so i really think we have to we have to

1909
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,880
we have to set the example

1910
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,960
um

1911
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,480
and allow the kids to bring their own

1912
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,560
emotions there and help them help them

1913
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:21,199
manage that and not see that as a scary

1914
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,199
or bad thing

1915
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:27,920
um great so

1916
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,440
there's lots of questions in the q a i

1917
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:31,839
see that um some of the panelists have

1918
01:08:29,440 --> 01:08:33,839
been responding directly kind of

1919
01:08:31,839 --> 01:08:35,679
answering answering in the chat

1920
01:08:33,839 --> 01:08:37,120
um there's some other resources being

1921
01:08:35,679 --> 01:08:39,120
shared so lots of information there

1922
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,400
worth kind of scanning through that

1923
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,759
um

1924
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,040
one thing that jumped out at me and it's

1925
01:08:41,759 --> 01:08:45,279
in part related to something we wanted

1926
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,880
to dig a bit deeper into anyway was a

1927
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:48,319
question about kind of an international

1928
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,239
perspective on this what what countries

1929
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:51,440
are doing well with with this kind of

1930
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:52,719
thing

1931
01:08:51,440 --> 01:08:54,880
different forms of climate

1932
01:08:52,719 --> 01:08:56,400
sustainability education which countries

1933
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,719
are lagging behind that's come up a

1934
01:08:56,400 --> 01:09:00,319
little bit in terms of rahul and steve

1935
01:08:58,719 --> 01:09:01,520
talking about the collaboration they're

1936
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:02,640
working on but

1937
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,239
i um

1938
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,759
i guess you know it's another thing to

1939
01:09:04,239 --> 01:09:07,600
reflect on especially you know aryan

1940
01:09:05,759 --> 01:09:09,600
your work for unesco and kind of being

1941
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,880
part of these networks of

1942
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,080
environmental and sustainability

1943
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,560
educators

1944
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,759
leaders of education and then also the

1945
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,239
research you mentioned working with

1946
01:09:15,759 --> 01:09:19,040
educators in many different countries

1947
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:20,640
um

1948
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,839
are there are there particular places we

1949
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,120
should look to

1950
01:09:21,839 --> 01:09:24,080
um

1951
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,920
or

1952
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,279
is is maybe is the country the wrong

1953
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,799
scale to be thinking about are there are

1954
01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:31,520
there particular cities that do this

1955
01:09:28,799 --> 01:09:32,880
well school districts schools um but any

1956
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:35,839
any reactions on that kind of in

1957
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,839
international models

1958
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:40,640
so i don't think any one country jumps

1959
01:09:38,799 --> 01:09:43,199
out maybe some of the scandinavian

1960
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,719
countries have a lot more flexibility in

1961
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:46,159
the curriculum

1962
01:09:44,719 --> 01:09:48,560
and i think

1963
01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:51,040
you know wherever that is afforded to

1964
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:53,359
teachers i think there is of course a

1965
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:56,320
big channel to make change right but

1966
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:58,400
again that is individual dependent and a

1967
01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:00,560
lot of this is based on

1968
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,560
you know currently at least when we've

1969
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,800
run these workshops with hundreds of

1970
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,120
teachers in different countries

1971
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:09,040
the interest is always individual driven

1972
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:11,440
currently and i think in order to

1973
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:13,120
address this set of wider skill

1974
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:15,520
we are trying to say

1975
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:18,159
it needs to get into the system the

1976
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:20,239
multiple systems we can get into we are

1977
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:22,719
advocating for the formal education

1978
01:10:20,239 --> 01:10:25,199
system i'm not saying it's the best way

1979
01:10:22,719 --> 01:10:27,040
is the way i we are currently doing it

1980
01:10:25,199 --> 01:10:28,800
and of course there is a

1981
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,320
a wonderful amount of work which is

1982
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:32,320
happening maybe in the informal

1983
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:34,880
education system as well

1984
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:38,080
right so uh you know certain countries

1985
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:39,920
are far more receptive i would feel in

1986
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,120
wanting to introduce it into the

1987
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,199
curriculum

1988
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:45,440
uh you know we had our national

1989
01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:47,120
education policy of india which was

1990
01:10:45,440 --> 01:10:49,280
released last year

1991
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:52,719
and it does emphasize

1992
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:54,480
you know adding the environment into a

1993
01:10:52,719 --> 01:10:56,960
lot more of the curriculum it doesn't

1994
01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:58,880
get into specifics of how much and how

1995
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:02,000
climate change makes its appearance a

1996
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:04,239
bit but but you know the reality is that

1997
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:06,640
finally in order to get this into the

1998
01:11:04,239 --> 01:11:08,880
system it has to go through its own

1999
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,719
process this tends to be bureaucratic in

2000
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:13,199
most parts of the world

2001
01:11:10,719 --> 01:11:15,520
and it takes time but you know i wanted

2002
01:11:13,199 --> 01:11:17,360
to also pick up on something that james

2003
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:19,280
said which i think would be very

2004
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,440
interesting when we imagining the future

2005
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:24,159
of work and you have mentioned you know

2006
01:11:21,440 --> 01:11:26,560
everyone talks of work as going to

2007
01:11:24,159 --> 01:11:28,560
change in the future and ai coming in

2008
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:30,960
and so on and so forth but we don't

2009
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:34,000
often mention that maybe education will

2010
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:36,560
also change in the future the same tools

2011
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:38,400
can be used for effective pedagogy and

2012
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:41,520
effective education

2013
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:44,239
so i might be equally utopian

2014
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:46,800
and silly in imagining that there might

2015
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:49,520
well be a time when we could get

2016
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,719
you know knowledge to places you know

2017
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,719
which are not where you're not

2018
01:11:50,719 --> 01:11:55,040
constrained by location

2019
01:11:52,719 --> 01:11:56,960
right and and and i think you know in

2020
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,159
the future if we are going to depend on

2021
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,560
the digital

2022
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:05,040
and i know this will bring up questions

2023
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:07,679
uh you know you could uh have access

2024
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,480
in places where you didn't consider you

2025
01:12:07,679 --> 01:12:10,239
know

2026
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:11,440
in the past right

2027
01:12:10,239 --> 01:12:14,239
now

2028
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:16,400
the customization of knowledge right is

2029
01:12:14,239 --> 01:12:18,159
something which is also going to be

2030
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:20,719
problematic but i think that will be at

2031
01:12:18,159 --> 01:12:22,640
the key or heart of you know how people

2032
01:12:20,719 --> 01:12:23,520
will gain knowledge in the future as

2033
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,280
well

2034
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,480
right and i think that is something to

2035
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:29,679
think about

2036
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:32,640
uh you know you know uh as a future

2037
01:12:29,679 --> 01:12:35,520
model itself right in terms of education

2038
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:37,600
also evolving over time and the means of

2039
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,520
doing it are there right now so why not

2040
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,320
embrace that as well

2041
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:43,199
uh

2042
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:45,360
you know so so i i don't see any one

2043
01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:47,600
country standing out in terms of saying

2044
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:49,360
that we are you know it's there in every

2045
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:52,000
part of our curriculum

2046
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:53,760
it often makes its appearance as

2047
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,679
extracurricular work

2048
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:59,040
sometimes it will make its work in

2049
01:12:55,679 --> 01:13:01,440
projects or so at the school level

2050
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:03,600
countries like the us have climate

2051
01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:06,400
change courses open to all their

2052
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:08,719
undergraduates uh you know some of the

2053
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:10,880
private universities and places like

2054
01:13:08,719 --> 01:13:12,560
india have it

2055
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:14,960
but you know when you look at the

2056
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:16,239
large-scale government sort of colleges

2057
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:20,560
which follow

2058
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:23,760
a model curriculum a model syllabus

2059
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:26,239
that tends to sort of you know closet

2060
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,440
climate change into a geography

2061
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:30,400
curriculum

2062
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:32,239
and this is outdated and it is outdated

2063
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,080
in most countries i don't know how

2064
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:37,040
stephen you'd answer this well how quick

2065
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:39,679
it would be to say change the curriculum

2066
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:41,600
in the uk for undergraduate it doesn't

2067
01:13:39,679 --> 01:13:44,960
happen quickly

2068
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:46,960
on the flip side you know as educators

2069
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:48,080
and as people who are aware of what is

2070
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:51,280
going on

2071
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:52,560
i in my lifetime i've never seen kids go

2072
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:54,719
on strike

2073
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:57,120
to get something in the curriculum

2074
01:13:54,719 --> 01:13:59,120
so that's never happened right so of

2075
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:01,120
course it has to be you know put in a

2076
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,480
much more meaningful way

2077
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,520
but again you know there are issues i

2078
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:06,480
was saying well

2079
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:08,320
if it is even put in the curriculum do

2080
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:11,360
you currently and i'm talking at a

2081
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:14,560
global level have enough teachers to

2082
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:16,800
actually impart that knowledge right so

2083
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:19,280
it's uh it's something we have to think

2084
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:21,920
about starting right now

2085
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:24,080
uh and i think we have the tools things

2086
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:27,360
are out there for free which can be

2087
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:28,640
totally packaged and used by many many

2088
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:31,280
yeah

2089
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:33,360
just having that bill because i need to

2090
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:35,760
i'm gonna have to i'm actually teaching

2091
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:37,840
in in just half an hour so i'm just

2092
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,800
gonna be my last contribution to the

2093
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:41,920
panel

2094
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:44,239
uh very interesting conversation a lot a

2095
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,520
lot has been said and uh

2096
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:48,960
um

2097
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:53,120
yeah just to to to uh echo raoul in in

2098
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:56,159
in many ways uh i think uh it it it is

2099
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:58,040
uh the key i think is how much space is

2100
01:14:56,159 --> 01:15:00,320
there for autonomy and

2101
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:02,320
self-determination at the local level to

2102
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:04,960
address and engage with

2103
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:07,520
these kinds of issues that emerge in our

2104
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:09,679
everyday lives and at school schools

2105
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:12,000
need to become yeah responsive they need

2106
01:15:09,679 --> 01:15:14,320
to be relevant to today's challenges

2107
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:16,640
they need to be responsive and they need

2108
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:18,560
to be in a way responsible by also

2109
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:20,320
addressing the moral and ethical

2110
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,239
components that also has to do with

2111
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:24,719
professional development of teachers to

2112
01:15:22,239 --> 01:15:26,400
what extent are they able to do that so

2113
01:15:24,719 --> 01:15:28,159
how is your support professional

2114
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:30,000
development structure developed in a

2115
01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:31,920
country and then indeed in the nordic

2116
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:34,320
countries you see quite good

2117
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,640
professional development quite a lot of

2118
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:39,199
space for localized curricula

2119
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:43,040
and they're not pushing a climate change

2120
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:44,960
education or human rights education or

2121
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,960
development education or consumer

2122
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:49,520
education or global citizenship

2123
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:51,920
education or soil education or water

2124
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:53,760
education we must be careful that it

2125
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:56,159
doesn't become a competition between

2126
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,679
what what is the best or most important

2127
01:15:56,159 --> 01:16:00,239
global challenge that's missing the

2128
01:15:57,679 --> 01:16:02,480
point entirely and we fall in the trap

2129
01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:04,400
of who's best or what's ranked first and

2130
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:06,880
second you know

2131
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:08,400
and it is a systemic global dysfunction

2132
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:11,040
issue that we are dealing with here

2133
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:13,440
that's much deeper so it has to do again

2134
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:15,840
the purpose of education question where

2135
01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:17,840
is that question still being addressed

2136
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,520
and often it's not even asked that

2137
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,320
question and that's a very important

2138
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:24,960
starting point

2139
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:27,840
so i do think that there is more

2140
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:29,840
resistance resistance in society against

2141
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:32,480
this culture of accountability

2142
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:34,880
management and control focusing on the

2143
01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:36,880
pisa rankings and and and

2144
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,880
you know we see universities that do not

2145
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:42,000
want to be ranked anymore

2146
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:44,640
we see uh parents and and teachers and

2147
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:47,600
and school administrators who are really

2148
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:50,320
fed up with having to do this kind of

2149
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:52,960
performative tasks that are being

2150
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:54,080
you know checked by by inspectors and

2151
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,600
then they

2152
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:57,440
their their whole

2153
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,600
performance reviews of teachers it

2154
01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:01,760
depends on on the test scores of

2155
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:04,000
students etc etc

2156
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:06,400
there's resistance because a lot of uh

2157
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,920
young people are suffering from that uh

2158
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,600
there's you know in some countries where

2159
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:12,719
it's really pushed hard there's high

2160
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:15,360
suicide rates among young people uh in

2161
01:17:12,719 --> 01:17:18,159
parts of southeast asia for instance

2162
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:20,320
this is going to change this is going to

2163
01:17:18,159 --> 01:17:22,480
lead to some change in our schools that

2164
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:24,960
will open up more space for these types

2165
01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:27,040
of topics that we're talking about here

2166
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:29,679
today there's one thing where i kind of

2167
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:31,360
i'm a little bit anxious

2168
01:17:29,679 --> 01:17:33,360
raw you say you

2169
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:35,600
twice you said something quite positive

2170
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:37,920
about the us in terms of its engagement

2171
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:39,760
in climate change education i think the

2172
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:40,960
us has the worst and the best of

2173
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,040
everything

2174
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,360
so it also has another side you know

2175
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:47,360
there are states like oklahoma where you

2176
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:49,679
cannot talk about climate change in the

2177
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:52,880
classroom it's a non-issue

2178
01:17:49,679 --> 01:17:54,640
and that is another extreme that we also

2179
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:57,360
that is quite worrisome and bill

2180
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:59,600
probably knows more about that

2181
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:02,320
so with that uh um

2182
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:04,400
thank you uh bill and thank you other

2183
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:06,000
fellow panelists and uh i hope that

2184
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:08,239
there will be some more audience

2185
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,840
interaction coming in

2186
01:18:08,239 --> 01:18:14,000
but uh i i need to sign off

2187
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:15,600
now great thank you arien

2188
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,800
um

2189
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,960
amanda i was wondering if you wanted to

2190
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,880
follow up on that um in terms of kind of

2191
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:23,760
how education engages with issues like

2192
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:25,920
politics and and power um

2193
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:28,480
is that is that something to dig a

2194
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:30,400
little bit more deeply into

2195
01:18:28,480 --> 01:18:32,159
it's obviously a really tricky one i'm i

2196
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,520
i'm thinking of the sort of the

2197
01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:35,120
quotation we're probably all very

2198
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:36,560
familiar with from madre lord's work

2199
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,480
about in the master's tools will never

2200
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:42,000
dismantle the master's house

2201
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:43,840
um and how how you

2202
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,440
i mean the uk government for example in

2203
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:47,360
the slot which is normally used for

2204
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:48,800
teaching climate change recently

2205
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:50,800
attempted to say you couldn't criticize

2206
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:52,000
capitalism now how you talk about

2207
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,679
climate change without criticizing

2208
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,440
capitalism is sort of difficult to

2209
01:18:53,679 --> 01:18:57,199
imagine and if it were actually being

2210
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:59,199
police and i have to say it was probably

2211
01:18:57,199 --> 01:19:01,199
more likely to be some kind of warning

2212
01:18:59,199 --> 01:19:03,360
shot um but i mean i think that there

2213
01:19:01,199 --> 01:19:05,600
are more more indirect ways of doing it

2214
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:08,400
i think it should equip students with

2215
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:11,199
the skills to to be um

2216
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:12,320
critical both of the curriculum but also

2217
01:19:11,199 --> 01:19:13,920
i mean i think one of the things is

2218
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,760
going to be absolutely essential i mean

2219
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:17,520
one can imagine all sorts of dystopian

2220
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:19,520
futures from from this point forwards

2221
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,440
and and certainly having a population

2222
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:23,280
that's very vulnerable to different

2223
01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:24,320
kinds of propaganda or to divisive

2224
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,400
rhetoric

2225
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:28,320
um or to misinformation about what's

2226
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:29,360
going on all these things i think are

2227
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,440
going to be as

2228
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,719
dangerous as any other possible threat

2229
01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:34,320
that comes with climate change and i

2230
01:19:32,719 --> 01:19:36,320
think that's one of the things that that

2231
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:38,239
it's crucial to equip students with and

2232
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:39,520
i mean a lot of that is done

2233
01:19:38,239 --> 01:19:42,719
i mean in my experience it's sort of

2234
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:44,480
hard to put it in the curriculum um it's

2235
01:19:42,719 --> 01:19:46,880
it's more a sort of it's a it's a kind

2236
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:49,280
of critical stance it's a set of skills

2237
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,560
that come conversationally and i i i

2238
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:52,400
suppose just give a very concrete

2239
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:53,120
example um from my own teaching i've

2240
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,800
been

2241
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:56,880
slowly trying to teach students to think

2242
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:59,360
differently about power partly by

2243
01:19:56,880 --> 01:20:00,480
rooting it in environments and ecologies

2244
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,800
and and what's possible and what the

2245
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:05,120
consequences are of acting and acting

2246
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:07,840
power in certain ways but also the the

2247
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:10,719
role of um different systems of power in

2248
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:12,400
in inculcating and developing education

2249
01:20:10,719 --> 01:20:14,880
and value systems and i mean right back

2250
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,760
to the earliest states how do you how do

2251
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:16,880
you

2252
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,800
create a situation where the vast

2253
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:20,239
majority of populations producing food

2254
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:22,159
for a small number of people who live in

2255
01:20:20,239 --> 01:20:24,800
the cities who have high culture

2256
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:26,239
um how do you create that kind of

2257
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:29,199
compliance and what are the long-term

2258
01:20:26,239 --> 01:20:31,920
effects of creating a population where

2259
01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:34,159
you just can't um you can't engage your

2260
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:36,400
critique um systems of power if you're

2261
01:20:34,159 --> 01:20:37,679
most people and if you are the people in

2262
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:39,600
power you also don't want to because

2263
01:20:37,679 --> 01:20:41,440
you're invested in it and i mean this is

2264
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,800
not just sort of ancient history or that

2265
01:20:41,440 --> 01:20:44,320
you could teach it by means of ancient

2266
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:45,679
history then you only need to ask the

2267
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,960
students whether the world has changed

2268
01:20:45,679 --> 01:20:48,560
as much as all that and then they can do

2269
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,320
the rest of it for themselves if you if

2270
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,000
you encourage them to do that

2271
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:54,159
um so i'm not particularly meaning to

2272
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:56,800
destabilize the government kind of

2273
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:58,639
in secret ways but i do think that

2274
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:02,400
there are all sorts of

2275
01:20:58,639 --> 01:21:03,920
if if if it's not possible or or um

2276
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:07,120
problematic to

2277
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:08,480
to be too direct in your in in building

2278
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:10,639
this critical thinking there's a whole

2279
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:12,960
host of ways within the curriculum that

2280
01:21:10,639 --> 01:21:14,159
that that i think can be employed i mean

2281
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:15,679
i think it's been used for a very long

2282
01:21:14,159 --> 01:21:17,440
time the holocaust has for a very very

2283
01:21:15,679 --> 01:21:20,320
long time been the way of teaching the

2284
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:22,880
consequences of divisiveness in society

2285
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:25,360
um so this isn't a new suggestion i mean

2286
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:26,400
very little needs to be a new suggestion

2287
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:29,199
in some ways

2288
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:32,000
um so i think that the sort of creative

2289
01:21:29,199 --> 01:21:33,679
thinking about understanding power and

2290
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,760
politics and

2291
01:21:33,679 --> 01:21:37,760
the kind of key terms like development

2292
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,880
is development is that a criteria

2293
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,639
against which we should be measuring

2294
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,920
either individuals or societies and if

2295
01:21:40,639 --> 01:21:43,440
we are then what are we asking of them

2296
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:46,239
and what are the people who don't count

2297
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:48,880
as if you know sufficiently developed um

2298
01:21:46,239 --> 01:21:50,080
so i think that um one of the really key

2299
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:52,159
elements to

2300
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:53,520
dealing with climate change is is

2301
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:55,679
teaching

2302
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:57,600
teaching people to to understand a bit

2303
01:21:55,679 --> 01:22:01,360
better what's going on and and not to

2304
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:01,360
just accept things that they're taught

2305
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:07,600
great we we've got i think seven minutes

2306
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:09,280
left and so i i don't know i wanted to

2307
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,880
leave it open to the panelists i know

2308
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:12,639
you've been scanning the q a's as well

2309
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,719
so was there anything that you saw in

2310
01:22:12,639 --> 01:22:17,280
the q a that you wanted to bring

2311
01:22:14,719 --> 01:22:19,440
to the whole group um or we could just

2312
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:20,800
go around for kind of concluding remarks

2313
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:22,719
from each of you

2314
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:24,560
um but it was there anything in the in

2315
01:22:22,719 --> 01:22:27,440
the q a that anyone wanted to

2316
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,440
to raise with the group

2317
01:22:28,159 --> 01:22:31,360
yes i've seen there's a various kind of

2318
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:33,679
comments about kind of

2319
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:36,000
interdisciplinarity and that i think are

2320
01:22:33,679 --> 01:22:38,080
really important and one um

2321
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:40,719
comment i can't say now um but was

2322
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:44,159
asking um a question about the way in

2323
01:22:40,719 --> 01:22:45,760
which um kind of other systems beyond i

2324
01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:47,760
mean there's a geography context but

2325
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:49,760
these other systems kind of vital to be

2326
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:51,600
able to understand um climate change so

2327
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,280
i i guess i just want to kind of just

2328
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:55,199
really quickly kind of massively agree

2329
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,719
with that and say that um absolutely

2330
01:22:55,199 --> 01:22:57,840
that kind of interdisciplinarity that a

2331
01:22:56,719 --> 01:23:00,400
lot of different people have spoken

2332
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:02,080
about from different directions and and

2333
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:03,280
the ways kim is doing really powerful

2334
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,040
other ways and actually students kind of

2335
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:06,639
really like looking for these links and

2336
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,800
then really kind of like being powered

2337
01:23:06,639 --> 01:23:10,560
by being able to see these links and

2338
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:13,040
that absolutely that kind of that

2339
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,239
question of um kind of who's producing

2340
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:16,719
this knowledge and what kinds of

2341
01:23:14,239 --> 01:23:18,880
expertise might we be able to draw on

2342
01:23:16,719 --> 01:23:21,120
and i think there's some like kind of

2343
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:22,719
really unresolved big tensions that get

2344
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:24,480
raised through that as well like james

2345
01:23:22,719 --> 01:23:26,400
talking about his narrative skills not

2346
01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:28,880
just being kind of generic but drawing

2347
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:30,320
um really strongly on these kind of um

2348
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:32,639
subject-specific

2349
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:34,400
questions um but from the kind of

2350
01:23:32,639 --> 01:23:35,920
geographical perspective then kind of

2351
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:38,080
what counts as geography is also this

2352
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,679
massive vexed question and kind of draws

2353
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:42,560
really widely on lots of different

2354
01:23:39,679 --> 01:23:45,840
things and and so absolutely trying to

2355
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:48,080
kind of engage with like multiple um

2356
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:50,080
plural types of knowledges and seems to

2357
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:52,320
be so important particularly because

2358
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:54,080
this whole question of um these

2359
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,679
solutions the way that kim's phrases at

2360
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,679
the end that they the real problem that

2361
01:23:55,679 --> 01:23:59,199
solutions kind of change are political

2362
01:23:57,679 --> 01:24:01,440
and we can't discuss political issues

2363
01:23:59,199 --> 01:24:03,679
but that question of kind of what does

2364
01:24:01,440 --> 01:24:06,080
this mean and these different solutions

2365
01:24:03,679 --> 01:24:08,239
that you can see being prioritized as

2366
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:10,159
just neutral but of course we need to do

2367
01:24:08,239 --> 01:24:11,760
certain forms of kind of carbon capture

2368
01:24:10,159 --> 01:24:14,239
of course we need to use certain forms

2369
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:16,400
of sequestration whatever um that get

2370
01:24:14,239 --> 01:24:19,600
presented as kind of scientific

2371
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:21,440
and neutral um responses how can we kind

2372
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:23,280
of engage with these big narratives

2373
01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:25,199
they're being told about these solutions

2374
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:27,679
what problems and how has the whole

2375
01:24:25,199 --> 01:24:30,159
thing been kind of conceptualized and so

2376
01:24:27,679 --> 01:24:32,080
um yeah absolutely kind of um say that

2377
01:24:30,159 --> 01:24:34,159
this kind of interdisciplinary is is

2378
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:36,320
vital and how can we kind of really

2379
01:24:34,159 --> 01:24:38,800
critically engage with these um like

2380
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:39,840
necessarily and unavoidably political

2381
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,520
questions

2382
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,880
i'm saying my kind of like big last

2383
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,560
response is just the importance of

2384
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:46,080
teachers and just to say that this kind

2385
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:47,679
of question that rahul placed me earlier

2386
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,440
about um the curriculum how long would

2387
01:24:47,679 --> 01:24:51,520
it take to change the curriculum like

2388
01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:53,440
joining stenhouse's broad definition

2389
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:55,520
between the curriculum as intended in

2390
01:24:53,440 --> 01:24:57,679
the curriculum as reality that the

2391
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,520
teachers real role in kind of creating

2392
01:24:57,679 --> 01:25:01,920
the reality of that and means that

2393
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:04,080
whatever the the curriculum is actually

2394
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,440
and you can change that tomorrow by um

2395
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,360
framing it in a slightly different way

2396
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:08,480
you're asking a different question about

2397
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:10,320
it and so kind of empowering and

2398
01:25:08,480 --> 01:25:13,600
equipping teachers seems to be kind of

2399
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,600
absolutely central to lots of us

2400
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:17,199
um that's great and i think yeah it'd be

2401
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:19,199
great to go around kind of some closing

2402
01:25:17,199 --> 01:25:21,199
words from everyone and in the context

2403
01:25:19,199 --> 01:25:22,560
you know cop 26 starting this week you

2404
01:25:21,199 --> 01:25:24,320
know action for climate empowerment

2405
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:26,560
being the lens through which

2406
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:28,080
education and public engagement um is

2407
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:29,199
written into the paris agreement written

2408
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:31,440
into the

2409
01:25:29,199 --> 01:25:33,199
the un agreement on climate change um

2410
01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:34,239
any kind of concluding thoughts based on

2411
01:25:33,199 --> 01:25:36,239
what we've been talking about so raul

2412
01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:38,000
can we start with you actually any final

2413
01:25:36,239 --> 01:25:40,719
final words

2414
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:43,280
yeah i think uh you know thank you to

2415
01:25:40,719 --> 01:25:46,639
everyone here learned a lot it's been a

2416
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:49,040
fantastic discussion uh just to conclude

2417
01:25:46,639 --> 01:25:51,360
i think you know

2418
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:54,480
what we've not really discussed too much

2419
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:56,080
or so is uh access to knowledge

2420
01:25:54,480 --> 01:25:57,840
which would actually

2421
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:59,840
be a critical thing when we're talking

2422
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:02,080
about a global issue

2423
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:04,000
and uh you know i think

2424
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:06,239
those are sort of

2425
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:08,880
you know discussions which are happening

2426
01:26:06,239 --> 01:26:10,639
for understanding the impacts of climate

2427
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:13,120
change and how it's affecting people at

2428
01:26:10,639 --> 01:26:15,760
that level but i think education and

2429
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:18,159
providing access to quality education

2430
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:19,600
material becomes one very sort of

2431
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:21,600
important tool

2432
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:24,719
i hope in the future there's a lot more

2433
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:28,400
collaboration a lot more open source

2434
01:26:24,719 --> 01:26:31,360
material uh sharing and i hope uh

2435
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:34,239
whatever forms get us there we would use

2436
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:37,840
as educators including tech or so so

2437
01:26:34,239 --> 01:26:37,840
i'll kind you keep it at that

2438
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:42,719
i'm great um james any any final

2439
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:43,440
thoughts from you

2440
01:26:42,719 --> 01:26:45,199
yeah

2441
01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:46,960
thanks i really enjoyed this discussion

2442
01:26:45,199 --> 01:26:49,520
um it's been really interesting and i

2443
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:51,360
think a final thought is is building off

2444
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:52,960
steve's point that teachers sit at the

2445
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,639
heart of this system

2446
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:56,400
um and we need to

2447
01:26:54,639 --> 01:26:59,840
you know acknowledge that and empower

2448
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:01,440
them to um to be involved in it but at

2449
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:04,239
risk of um

2450
01:27:01,440 --> 01:27:06,400
sounding controversial uh building on on

2451
01:27:04,239 --> 01:27:08,159
my previous points about the future of

2452
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:10,320
work and

2453
01:27:08,159 --> 01:27:12,639
the world of skills development

2454
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:16,080
i think teachers don't talk enough about

2455
01:27:12,639 --> 01:27:18,880
work they don't talk enough about jobs

2456
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:21,760
there's often too much of a focus on the

2457
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:23,440
intrinsic value of education and i think

2458
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:26,159
that's really important

2459
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:28,719
um but we must also acknowledge that

2460
01:27:26,159 --> 01:27:30,560
what bista calls his is his

2461
01:27:28,719 --> 01:27:32,880
qualifications the credentialism of

2462
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:34,719
education as well and the ways in which

2463
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:37,280
education and training can and does

2464
01:27:34,719 --> 01:27:38,320
prepare young people for the workplace

2465
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,360
and so

2466
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:42,000
actually

2467
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:43,199
helping teachers to talk about work in a

2468
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:46,239
in a more

2469
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:48,239
open way but also a way that is capable

2470
01:27:46,239 --> 01:27:52,480
of helping young people ask questions of

2471
01:27:48,239 --> 01:27:52,480
power is i think absolutely critical

2472
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:58,000
great um kim any final final thoughts

2473
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:03,040
sure yes i mean picking up on what uh

2474
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:05,040
james is saying about the careers i i've

2475
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:08,000
for a while thought this is this is a

2476
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:10,800
really powerful approach um both are

2477
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,960
addressing students drive for learning

2478
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:15,040
and their own sort of seeking out that

2479
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:17,760
connections between subjects

2480
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,960
um and addressing their anxiety about

2481
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,719
what's happening with climate and

2482
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:22,719
biodiversity of loss and things i think

2483
01:28:20,719 --> 01:28:24,960
the sort of green careers the kind of

2484
01:28:22,719 --> 01:28:28,000
the idea that you could have a fantastic

2485
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:31,199
career working to solve some of these

2486
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:31,920
these things is is very enticing um i

2487
01:28:31,199 --> 01:28:33,840
think

2488
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:35,520
careers advisors in schools and in

2489
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,679
universities got a huge role to play

2490
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:39,440
here if we can empower them and green

2491
01:28:37,679 --> 01:28:41,360
entrepreneurs and business people can

2492
01:28:39,440 --> 01:28:44,159
bring excitement and inspiration into

2493
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:45,440
schools creating sort of demand amongst

2494
01:28:44,159 --> 01:28:47,520
the students

2495
01:28:45,440 --> 01:28:50,320
for for more knowledge relevant

2496
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:52,080
knowledge critical skills thinking um

2497
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:54,239
and we need to show them that it isn't

2498
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,320
just you know being in a you know

2499
01:28:54,239 --> 01:28:57,520
climate consultancy or whatever it is

2500
01:28:56,320 --> 01:29:00,400
it's like whether you're going to be a

2501
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:02,320
plumber an engineer a designer a lawyer

2502
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:04,719
an artist whatever you're going to be

2503
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:06,880
you've got a massive role to play and in

2504
01:29:04,719 --> 01:29:08,639
fact whatever job you're going to do in

2505
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:10,239
the future it's going to be affected by

2506
01:29:08,639 --> 01:29:12,080
climate change so having that knowledge

2507
01:29:10,239 --> 01:29:13,760
now is really going to set you

2508
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:15,600
put you in a really good position to get

2509
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:18,719
the jobs that you want and the careers

2510
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,719
that you want to take forward

2511
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:23,280
great and amanda i'll leave it to you to

2512
01:29:20,719 --> 01:29:25,120
close this out for the session

2513
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:26,960
sure well i mean i think that most of

2514
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:28,800
what i would have said is a sort of

2515
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:30,960
brand closing remark has just been being

2516
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:32,320
said by by others and i'm really i

2517
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,800
really enjoyed this panel and i found it

2518
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:37,040
incredibly um helpful to hear so much

2519
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:40,080
expert thinking um on these really

2520
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:41,920
crucial issues and i suppose the the

2521
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:43,280
i mean what lots of people are trying to

2522
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:44,719
do in lots of different places and

2523
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:46,400
sometimes it's frustrating to feel as if

2524
01:29:44,719 --> 01:29:48,239
the wheels being reinvented all over the

2525
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:49,920
place um but on the other hand it's also

2526
01:29:48,239 --> 01:29:51,840
inspiring to see so many people in so

2527
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:53,280
many you know different regions as well

2528
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:56,320
as different parts of the education

2529
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:58,480
system and and beyond um thinking about

2530
01:29:56,320 --> 01:30:00,159
all these different issues um i mean i

2531
01:29:58,480 --> 01:30:03,360
suppose the the

2532
01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:06,239
what's really needed is to to

2533
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:08,480
make this a a potent um way that

2534
01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:09,360
education policy makers and those who

2535
01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:12,000
who

2536
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:14,400
design and settle the curricula and

2537
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:16,480
politicians who have some sway over this

2538
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:17,520
um

2539
01:30:16,480 --> 01:30:19,440
are supposed to sort of create a

2540
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:21,360
conceptual package that does place crime

2541
01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:23,360
at the climate or climate crisis in its

2542
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:25,440
broadest possible sense along with

2543
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:27,280
biodiversity collapse and all the the

2544
01:30:25,440 --> 01:30:29,520
you know the many many consequences and

2545
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:31,840
complicated ongoing sort of feedback

2546
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:33,520
loops if we if we see these as the

2547
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:35,679
planetary conditions in which humans are

2548
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:39,360
living and then we design our education

2549
01:30:35,679 --> 01:30:40,800
system with all that in mind um

2550
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:42,639
and seeing it as a process right through

2551
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,840
you know as james says into the into the

2552
01:30:42,639 --> 01:30:46,880
world of workers into the world of

2553
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:48,960
people's adult lives um and also you

2554
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:51,040
know that there's there's already a huge

2555
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:52,480
sort of mental health crisis in our in

2556
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:54,239
in societies around the world and it's

2557
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:56,719
only going to get worse if it's not

2558
01:30:54,239 --> 01:30:58,560
tackled directly so empowering future

2559
01:30:56,719 --> 01:31:00,159
generations and hopefully sort of

2560
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:03,199
through them parents and other adults

2561
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:05,120
with new ways of and and ways that build

2562
01:31:03,199 --> 01:31:08,400
out of all this you know older older

2563
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:11,440
ways of thinking as well um

2564
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:13,199
i i guess to try and create a um a kind

2565
01:31:11,440 --> 01:31:14,880
of feeding in and out of education that

2566
01:31:13,199 --> 01:31:17,199
really makes sense for

2567
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:19,040
now and the coming decades i think that

2568
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:21,360
it would be that would be what i'd like

2569
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:21,360
to see

2570
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:26,239
um so thank you thank you

2571
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:28,000
very much um to bill for sharing and

2572
01:31:26,239 --> 01:31:30,880
thank you to everyone for coming along

2573
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:32,239
and i really um i'm really glad that

2574
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:35,520
we've had this conversation i hope that

2575
01:31:32,239 --> 01:31:35,520
we can keep going with it

2576
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:39,920
thanks amanda thank you all together and

2577
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:43,480
yeah starting this conversation i'll

2578
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:43,480
continue this conversation

2579
01:31:47,199 --> 01:31:49,280
you