1 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:24,720 So when I got to talking to police, there was all of these drivers about, you know, everyone's there, 2 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:34,490 join in and the bikes are in, you know, everyone stands just blocking the entrance, kind of seeing what was happening. 3 00:00:34,490 --> 00:00:39,620 I mean, I got there and there was all these all of these press people about, you know, what it is, these film cameras and stuff. 4 00:00:39,620 --> 00:00:43,650 You're like, oh, what was going on? It was exciting, you know? 5 00:00:43,650 --> 00:00:47,830 And I was just that was one of the main things. I was sure it was really cool. 6 00:00:47,830 --> 00:00:54,010 It was it was all of these bikes and everyone with that, that they their top boxes of their delivery jackets. 7 00:00:54,010 --> 00:00:59,570 So, you know, right around such a lot of making lots of noise taken over the road. 8 00:00:59,570 --> 00:01:02,270 And I like, you know, like listen to us. 9 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:12,320 You know, this is happening to me that that that it was just like a really exciting time to to stand up and go. 10 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:16,180 Yeah, we're not we're not we're not taking it. You know, you can't just do what you want. Thank. 11 00:01:16,180 --> 00:01:19,610 And we will we will resist you because we can you know, 12 00:01:19,610 --> 00:01:24,520 because I know that was I think just the finding out know we can because we want about ourselves. 13 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,180 But going out, we can actually do this. And this is actually possible. 14 00:01:29,180 --> 00:01:33,690 That was the point where it was just like, oh, wow, this is. Yeah, this is what. 15 00:01:33,690 --> 00:01:40,300 Get involved if this is worth pushing for because. Because before then, it wasn't even like a glimmer. 16 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:47,250 Know, I mean, it wasn't even on the horizon. I had no idea this was possible. 17 00:01:47,250 --> 00:01:54,090 In 2016, the headlines erupted with news that delivery rioters in London were on strike. 18 00:01:54,090 --> 00:02:03,090 This was the first time that workers in the gig economy had mobilised in the UK, taking to the streets to make their voices heard. 19 00:02:03,090 --> 00:02:07,980 The events that took place that summer shaped the lives of workers in the economy. 20 00:02:07,980 --> 00:02:17,050 To this day, we're still coming to terms with the ramifications of its successes and failures. 21 00:02:17,050 --> 00:02:26,280 I'm Robbie Waron and this is the Fair Work podcast. A dive into the lives of the people working within the gate. 22 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:35,130 This episode looks a representation. What is like trying to organise and negotiate with gig economy platforms? 23 00:02:35,130 --> 00:02:40,020 What are the difficulties talking of a company that doesn't legally employ you? 24 00:02:40,020 --> 00:02:50,100 And what happens when hundreds of workers come out from behind the screen to make their voices heard? 25 00:02:50,100 --> 00:02:59,530 So I Mohan and I initially started working for delivery in February 2016. 26 00:02:59,530 --> 00:03:06,610 And yeah, I worked for delivery full time for about three years roughly. 27 00:03:06,610 --> 00:03:14,360 And that's the first thing that drew me to it most as a job, was the fact that it's. 28 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:20,260 It's working on a bike. You know, you'd spend hours and hours riding around. 29 00:03:20,260 --> 00:03:27,370 And I really enjoy that. Like I was there like six hundred miles a week out of roughly for most of that time. 30 00:03:27,370 --> 00:03:35,120 And I always it's kind of it's the fact that you're not directly alterable to someone is really appealing. 31 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:41,600 Like it's even though you do have to kind of work within parameters that are set. 32 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:48,210 It's very different to. Having like a supervisor or a manager kind of breathing down your neck. 33 00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:54,620 Mohanned worked in East London in the area ranging from Shoreditch up to Bethnal Green. 34 00:03:54,620 --> 00:04:03,760 And when he first died, working shifts were scheduled and all riders were on a base rate of seven pounds per hour, plus one pound per delivery. 35 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:10,290 I know. I used to I used to work split shifts, lunch and evening, and it was scheduled shifts. 36 00:04:10,290 --> 00:04:16,110 So you would have your availability and it would be said to you and you do regular shifts every week. 37 00:04:16,110 --> 00:04:20,410 And so the evening shift can normally start around five or six. 38 00:04:20,410 --> 00:04:24,690 At the first hour, we'd be sat around and everyone together and. 39 00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:29,400 Yeah. So, yeah, you kind of you kind of sit around for an hour. Everyone would kind of gather together. 40 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:38,310 They'd be slowly like, wait for that first stop, go resume off, do the job, come back to Lambe Street which was also in centre. 41 00:04:38,310 --> 00:04:41,850 And there was really social that then there is actually at the start it was really, really social, 42 00:04:41,850 --> 00:04:47,580 like everyone would be in that little area, just sitting around waiting for the jobs. 43 00:04:47,580 --> 00:04:56,640 Essentially, the delivery app works by directing riders to specific areas of the city known as zone centres to wait for orders. 44 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:05,760 These are areas of the city in close proximity to a large number of restaurants, allowing deliveries to be completed as quickly as possible. 45 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:12,330 The knock on effect of this is that these spots act as key points for riders to meet and get to know one another. 46 00:05:12,330 --> 00:05:18,480 It wasn't until much later on the mohand would come to recognise the importance of these connexions. 47 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,780 So there was a quite strong sense of community that mainly came around. 48 00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:27,900 The fact that most of us were pretty much all of us would wait around was on centre. 49 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:31,140 And because you'd be waiting there. Right. 50 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:37,480 And you'd be waiting now for your bikes and you're all in your delivery jackets. They'd be like all of the motorcycles on one side. 51 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,630 Bicycle was kind of a little further down the road. 52 00:05:40,630 --> 00:05:46,650 And you just sit and talk about bikes, you know, and that's that most of the time, you know, I've made some really good friends. 53 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:50,760 Like, I'm still. Like what? All the time. Who have you. 54 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,740 I met during delivery. And like, even if you did kind of get the chance to speak to it, 55 00:05:55,740 --> 00:06:01,710 be like even even the like the friendly little nod to another, like, delivery driver when you will pass. 56 00:06:01,710 --> 00:06:08,170 I liked it so you'd be stopped at red light. And you're both kind of at the light just trying while you wait for the lights to change. 57 00:06:08,170 --> 00:06:14,700 And yeah, those were very kind of those kind of reinforced that sense of community couriering is a dangerous job. 58 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:22,320 And the absence of an official safety net provided by an employer means that this sense of community also plays a functional role, 59 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,420 helping riders navigate the problems they encounter in their work. 60 00:06:26,420 --> 00:06:33,210 I've had quite a few crashes at my time as a career. Most of them fault. 61 00:06:33,210 --> 00:06:38,890 A couple of them above all. But there was one where I. 62 00:06:38,890 --> 00:06:43,650 I just slipped off. It was wet and it was horrible. 63 00:06:43,650 --> 00:06:52,780 Is a really, really horrible day. And then I slipped my bike, slipped on a piece of road furniture on like a like a drain cover. 64 00:06:52,780 --> 00:07:00,110 And I slipped out. Spun for, like, I don't know, maybe like 15, 20 metres. 65 00:07:00,110 --> 00:07:06,490 I've got my bike. My foot caught under the bike. It was probably stuck by me. 66 00:07:06,490 --> 00:07:13,630 It wasn't actually that badly injured, but just had the bike on top of me and was in shock. 67 00:07:13,630 --> 00:07:19,930 Essentially, a passing career stopped to help my hand, pulling the bike off of him on discovering that the bike with, 68 00:07:19,930 --> 00:07:24,850 um, rideable together, they pushed the bike to a spot where they could safely leave it. 69 00:07:24,850 --> 00:07:32,640 The crash happened when it was on the on the red route where basically, if I I'd left my bike there to go shoot myself out, I saw the bike. 70 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:42,760 I would have got a ticket. And then the career kind of helped me push my bike, maybe like a hundred metres around the corner so I could pocket some. 71 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:50,980 Somewhere safe. But it was me. I was. You really help. Kind of. Just just the fact that when these things happen, like, it's it's scary. 72 00:07:50,980 --> 00:07:55,920 You know, it's one of those especially kind of like thankfully I wasn't too I wasn't like injured that time. 73 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,450 But like there has been times I've been up and really injured and it's kind of. 74 00:08:00,450 --> 00:08:09,190 Yeah, it's having it, knowing that if these things happen, like people are willing to stop an L will it. 75 00:08:09,190 --> 00:08:16,150 But what Mohand didn't know is that this community was about to be brought together in new ways to fight for their rights. 76 00:08:16,150 --> 00:08:26,000 In a battle that continues to impact and every right is today. I. 77 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:32,560 I was picking up an order from Rich Mix in between somewhat irrational for now, 78 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:36,260 but it's that, yeah, there are a restaurant better green than any place. 79 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:41,470 And I just picked up an order and I come outside and it was another driver there who I knew. 80 00:08:41,470 --> 00:08:48,800 And he was just like, man, have you seen what's going on? I'm like, no. Well, we took him out and he showed me on his phone. 81 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:57,650 The guys from CTT and Amsterdam. Belsize up outside Toynton place, which was delivery's headquarters at the time. 82 00:08:57,650 --> 00:09:01,010 Yeah. It's just the kind of commotion and what was going on at this point. 83 00:09:01,010 --> 00:09:04,700 I had no idea about the payment change. You know, it wasn't easy. 84 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:08,840 We didn't know about it. Like the first we heard about it was a few other drivers like Back-Seat. 85 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,670 The first I heard about was him showing me that people are kicking off. You don't even know what they were kicking off about. 86 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:18,410 He was just like like [INAUDIBLE] guy. Now, let me see this long back now. 87 00:09:18,410 --> 00:09:22,210 So I went and dropped off that order and then went to talk someplace like signed. 88 00:09:22,210 --> 00:09:29,240 I went to talk to place and was like, yo, what's what's going on? And then that was the first I'd heard about the change in payment structure. 89 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:34,820 Unbeknown to Mohan, delivery was radically changing the way in which it paid its rights. 90 00:09:34,820 --> 00:09:37,180 So what delivery were doing then? 91 00:09:37,180 --> 00:09:43,550 But they were they were moving us from our current based doctor at that time, which was seven pounds an hour about the job prospects were tips. 92 00:09:43,550 --> 00:09:53,330 They were moving everyone to a paper job, delivering a paper job, piece rate where they would get paid three point seventy five per job. 93 00:09:53,330 --> 00:09:59,870 That would be it would no base rate. There's still petrol and you'd still get your tips, but there was no base rate. 94 00:09:59,870 --> 00:10:05,120 So that meant if you got one one or one job in one hour, you would get three point seventy five. 95 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:13,150 Whereas before in that one hour you would have got eight pound plus however much mileage you did for that one job. 96 00:10:13,150 --> 00:10:19,220 So it's a big change, you know, a big change that would have hit everyone in their pockets quite hard, 97 00:10:19,220 --> 00:10:25,460 especially those of us who were doing it full time. You had like you were doing a 40 50 furfur for that at that time. 98 00:10:25,460 --> 00:10:32,240 I was I was doing like 60 hour weeks, you know, most my stomach being six to eight weeks. 99 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Especially for the I for those of us who were doing a full time, whereas our primary income, everyone really hard. 100 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:44,720 And yeah, I know when they first did it, they were like, oh, it's a trial. You know, we're not gonna make anyone fall. 101 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,920 And, you know, a few years down the line, everyone's favourite. 102 00:10:48,920 --> 00:11:02,110 There are no hourlies zones left. So when I got to times to place, there was already strivers about, you know, everyone's there, 103 00:11:02,110 --> 00:11:12,890 kind of join in and the bikes are arrive in, you know, everyone stages just blocking the entrance, kind of seeing what was happening. 104 00:11:12,890 --> 00:11:15,770 I mean, when I got there and then there was all these all these press people about, 105 00:11:15,770 --> 00:11:21,020 you know, what it is, these film cameras and stuff, you're like, oh, what's what's going on? 106 00:11:21,020 --> 00:11:28,940 So when I got there, there was like lots of lots of delivery couriers who are about to make a lot of noise. 107 00:11:28,940 --> 00:11:38,360 Kind of want in. And then there were people from the IWG who were there who like same day cycle careers, 108 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:47,300 probably the IWG be their trade union based in the UK, which predominantly represent people in precarious work. 109 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:51,790 Just prior to like our action as delivery drivers, 110 00:11:51,790 --> 00:12:05,100 the IWG kind of cycle careers had managed to win a massive pay rise for Seasprite careers and equally E- career careers. 111 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:11,000 So then they were telling us about their victories and how how they managed to 112 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:18,320 push and push that their employers to do anything to get this big pay rise. 113 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,990 And it was just it was really about nanospheres for me. 114 00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:30,620 Like, I never knew that we could even have a you know, when I first when I joined, like I was like I called self-employed out on my own. 115 00:12:30,620 --> 00:12:35,030 Things go wrong. Does this disconnect it? You there's not much we can do. 116 00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:38,000 I felt really good, really quite powerless about it. 117 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:48,320 And it was just really empowering to see kind of lots of people like me in the same position as me kind of coming together and changing things. 118 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:54,860 And while he's trying to change things and I just didn't even even the fact the people are trying to so powerful in itself 119 00:12:54,860 --> 00:13:07,070 and hearing from the psycho couriers about what they had done and how they managed to push to to better their conditions, 120 00:13:07,070 --> 00:13:14,520 it was exciting. I'm here on day three of a industrial action by delivery switch drivers cycling. 121 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:24,110 At the end of the day off. We make a profit for them because they're going to. 122 00:13:24,110 --> 00:13:35,630 So listen to everyone individually. You'll see them Damascus, 123 00:13:35,630 --> 00:13:42,690 like farming workers organising responding to gig economy through precisely 124 00:13:42,690 --> 00:13:48,990 the same technologies by which these companies are made incredible profits. 125 00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:55,910 It was exciting, you know, enough dust. That was one of the main things when he was sure it was really cool. 126 00:13:55,910 --> 00:14:00,960 It was all these bikes and everyone with their dad, their top boxes and their delivery jackets of, 127 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,230 you know, riding around such a lot and making lots of noise, taking over the road. 128 00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:14,670 Glad, like, you know, like listen to us. You know, this has happened in, like, not even just a public even other delivery workers, 129 00:14:14,670 --> 00:14:17,760 because, like, I think of like the fact that I found out from another driver, 130 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,940 I didn't find out from anyone else, you know, I didn't find out from delivers anything you or or something in the press or something. 131 00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:27,570 I found out because the driver told me this was going on and they. 132 00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:33,030 It was just really exciting to the fact that like all of us. Yeah. Just there and we rode around, you know, we rode around multiple places. 133 00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:43,810 Your dad's like BBC or like the recruitments said go to interview, said that that interview had went to like some restaurants and stuff. 134 00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:53,440 Yeah. It was for me that that got that. It was just like a really exciting time to stand up and go. 135 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,050 Yeah. We're not we're not we're not taking it. You know, you can't just do what you want. Like, we will. 136 00:14:58,050 --> 00:15:02,790 We will resist because we can, you know, because it was I think that just the finding out. 137 00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:08,180 We come because we want to better ourselves. And it's just got going that we can actually do this. 138 00:15:08,180 --> 00:15:14,220 And this is actually possible. That was the point. It was just like, oh, wow, this is yes. 139 00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:21,660 This is what get involved if this is left pushing for. Because because before then, it wasn't even like a glimmer, you know. 140 00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:27,650 I mean, it wasn't even on the horizon. I had no idea this was possible. 141 00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:35,460 And, yeah, it was just it was super exciting just to have the opportunity to be part of 142 00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:38,310 something where you're standing up for especially cause it's so important, 143 00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:43,050 like historically black, even at that point, like everyone would like deliver Rudys things. 144 00:15:43,050 --> 00:15:47,490 These apps were all of this. You know, historically, these things are important. 145 00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:52,190 You know, these things are changing. And everyone's been aware of from from from day one, you know, 146 00:15:52,190 --> 00:16:04,110 and we've been aware of the fact that these things are changing and to be poor or trying to make sure those changes are for the better, 147 00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:10,890 not only for myself, for everybody else, for all of us who are in that situation, not just in this country, around the world. 148 00:16:10,890 --> 00:16:11,610 You know, Kinkead, 149 00:16:11,610 --> 00:16:20,940 these companies are changing things drastically and the opportunity to be part of making sure that change was positive for the people, 150 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:28,600 not just for the investors, not just for it, for their employees, not just for the developers and the tech people, for their careers. 151 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,690 Switchfoot an everyday. 152 00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:42,380 And I think that was that was what felt so powerful is the fact that we know what we are doing is part of change in history for for us. 153 00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:54,280 And people like us in the future. And I think that's yeah, that's that's what was so powerful about being there and the kind of emotional power. 154 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:59,440 So, like, it's just collective action, you know. It's a feeling. It's a feeling of power. 155 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,700 And nobody can can explain it to you. You have to feel it. You have to be there. 156 00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:11,290 And you have to feel that collective might that you have when you stand side by side with each other. 157 00:17:11,290 --> 00:17:15,040 And that is. Yeah, that is where I felt it first. 158 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:20,550 I suppose that the first time I felt that feeling of collective power was stood outside. 159 00:17:20,550 --> 00:17:30,370 I thought the place was gone. With delivery drivers, revenue is making lots of noise and telling the bosses that we are here and you 160 00:17:30,370 --> 00:17:34,960 can't do what you want because we are the ones who make make you your money. 161 00:17:34,960 --> 00:18:05,460 So you all listen to us and you all do what we what we tell you. 162 00:18:05,460 --> 00:18:13,210 A key demand of the strikes was that riders would not be forced onto peace right work and given the option of remaining on an hourly wage. 163 00:18:13,210 --> 00:18:20,390 But that basic protection of no, that even if you don't get sent any work the hour, you will still get paid. 164 00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:29,890 And that was the core thing, is just making sure that nobody is forced to move from hourly to peace free, because that's with delivery guy. 165 00:18:29,890 --> 00:18:38,140 Looked like a core group of people do most of the work. Like, most of the work is done by people who do a full time day in, day out. 166 00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:44,200 But then there's quite a lot of people who will do just a weekend or just a couple of hours here a day. 167 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:51,490 And for those people, yeah, sure, it might work well for those people who are there everyday who deliver reliable. 168 00:18:51,490 --> 00:19:07,150 To do that, to do most the bulk of the work. The peace rate penalised us massively. 169 00:19:07,150 --> 00:19:13,030 Delivery claimed at the time this was simply a trial and that riders would not be forced onto peace. 170 00:19:13,030 --> 00:19:22,960 Right work on a permanent basis, a claim it would later rollback on with all riders in London now working entirely on a piece rate system of payment. 171 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:30,730 So that shift from hourly rate to piece rate just changes the way you work entirely. 172 00:19:30,730 --> 00:19:35,010 For most people, but if you don't work in a gig economy, you're working at a job where you get paid. 173 00:19:35,010 --> 00:19:40,300 When you call Kidon 20 Crocco. Right. Your workday is what you'll get paid for. 174 00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:45,800 It doesn't matter how productive you've been on network day, you can sit in the office and do no work at all. 175 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,660 You know, you probably will get it out for long, but you're not going to get penalised for that. 176 00:19:50,660 --> 00:19:57,850 The shift to piece rate work substantially changes how you work and when you work without any guaranteed income. 177 00:19:57,850 --> 00:20:04,000 Workers need to plan their working hours around when there is likely to be the most amount of orders available. 178 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:12,570 For Mohan, the shift to piece rate meant they had to completely reorganise his life working irregular hours over longer periods of time. 179 00:20:12,570 --> 00:20:16,670 Before I used to, I used to take Saturdays off as soon as I started delivering. 180 00:20:16,670 --> 00:20:22,300 I from from day one, I told him I want to have my Saturdays off just like six days a week. 181 00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:25,920 But to me, it's important for me to have a weekend. 182 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:32,650 Day off, well, also like just to have a normal axilla, because most people work Monday to Friday to have weekends off, 183 00:20:32,650 --> 00:20:37,030 whereas where is did the busy times for delivery was weekends. 184 00:20:37,030 --> 00:20:39,590 So I had to then change my day, my day off. 185 00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:47,390 You know, I, I don't I don't have to start working on Saturdays because if I didn't, I wouldn't be making enough money. 186 00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:58,070 I suppose I suppose that the kind of biggest change is just going that now no longer matters kind of how many hours I'm at work. 187 00:20:58,070 --> 00:21:02,690 That is the time that's a big kind of shift in the way you think about work, you know, 188 00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:09,990 because you're not getting paid for a day, you're getting paid for four for the number of units you what you can produce. 189 00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:16,820 And that fully changes how you think about it. And it's really hard to articulate what affect that does have. 190 00:21:16,820 --> 00:21:20,230 But it's like, I don't know, it's like going. It's going. 191 00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:25,660 If you a bus driver, you're not getting paid for the route you do. You're getting paid for the number of passengers that. 192 00:21:25,660 --> 00:21:33,030 Come on. Now, how will you as a bus driver? How can you how can you control how many passengers get on your bus? 193 00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:40,670 You call it. There's no way you have any any any control over how many passengers step onto that bus. 194 00:21:40,670 --> 00:21:48,670 So you have no idea how much you're going to get paid. You have no idea whether whether you're gonna have enough money to pay your bills that much. 195 00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:53,300 Add on top of that Dambusters, it doesn't belong to the company that belongs to you. 196 00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:56,870 So every day you run that, every hour you're on the road, every minute you're on the road. 197 00:21:56,870 --> 00:22:00,290 That's costing you money in wear and tear in fuel. 198 00:22:00,290 --> 00:22:06,240 You're paying the word at the highest level of insurance because you're carrying things for you as a business. 199 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,570 So you're paying you're paying lots and lots of money out all the time. 200 00:22:10,570 --> 00:22:15,780 But you have zero control over how much money you can make. 201 00:22:15,780 --> 00:22:19,760 You have no way of increasing that. You have no way of controlling the government. 202 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:31,280 Zero influence on it at all. You relied on that to put food on the table and not entirely shift the way you think about work. 203 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,730 And yeah, it just it just it just changes it, you know, it changes it from something that I did really enjoy. 204 00:22:35,730 --> 00:22:41,670 You know, I really did like being on the bike all day. You know, and make him I live in that. 205 00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:47,760 And it just added to the stress in such a immense way that I don't have the kind of words to articulate. 206 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:56,280 I asked Mohand about how the shift to peace ray and how delivery implemented these changes affected how he viewed his relationship with the company. 207 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:03,210 So the way the changes happened, I suppose they made me feel kind of angry initially was the first my first kind 208 00:23:03,210 --> 00:23:07,500 of emotional response was the fact that she kind of delivery at that time. 209 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:08,880 You know, everyone's talking about how you. 210 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:15,630 Yeah, these unicorn companies know they're great for the economy or to make all of this money that a future jolts. 211 00:23:15,630 --> 00:23:17,730 And it's like me really wants respect for you every day. 212 00:23:17,730 --> 00:23:23,580 You know, I mean, I'm the one putting my life at risk all the time for you guys so I can make my living. 213 00:23:23,580 --> 00:23:27,760 Yeah, you guys are getting paid tons and tons and tons, you know. 214 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:36,260 I will choose making. Lord knows how much money you know, all of these people who are employees of delivery are making tons of money. 215 00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:37,650 They're getting share options. 216 00:23:37,650 --> 00:23:44,850 And all it is a fact is here your business will be nowhere if you work for drivers like me and like the people around me, 217 00:23:44,850 --> 00:23:49,200 you know, who are every everyday. Bucket for you. 218 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:58,440 Like, how can you take these people and throw them away and go, actually, you know, your bills don't matter in your lifetime? 219 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,090 You know what I mean is, is that delivery. That's the only thing that matters. 220 00:24:03,090 --> 00:24:04,440 And I think that's that's what it showed. 221 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:12,770 It showed me how how little they value the people who work for the people who do actually work for them, who they claim to work. 222 00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:20,880 It is the fact that we were so like our time and ah ah ah energy wasn't actually worth anything. 223 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,800 The only thing that was of value to them was the food getting from A to B, 224 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:31,710 not the fact that that person who's doing that has a life as all who has to has to make 225 00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:36,720 enough money and has to do all of these things just to get by just like everybody else. 226 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:45,150 And I think that was the primary kind of feeling I had at the time. It was how disposable and how worthless we are to them. 227 00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:55,230 Let them be in the delivery. And the employer, the company, they just didn't care about us as people during the initial stages of the strikes. 228 00:24:55,230 --> 00:24:59,910 Riders came together and worked in collaboration with representatives from the trade union, 229 00:24:59,910 --> 00:25:06,780 the independent workers of Great Britain, to develop a set of demands and elect representatives. 230 00:25:06,780 --> 00:25:08,480 So we communicate to delivery. 231 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:18,910 So if they refused to even speak to anyone, know, they didn't want to speak to us collectively to chance or listen to everyone individually. 232 00:25:18,910 --> 00:25:27,890 And then I was I them the place I think we've made a delegation of like four or five people who because delivery said, are you. 233 00:25:27,890 --> 00:25:29,640 We'll speak to, you know. Yeah. 234 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:38,540 So I was like maybe about four or five people who, like we as a group kind of go and like elected as delegates, essentially. 235 00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:44,340 Maybe kind of agree to the points that we had. And I think with like four or five or 10 points up yet. 236 00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:49,890 And then they went up and spoke to them. And then there was like, no no real kind of movement. 237 00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:54,990 They were saying how like, oh, yeah, we'll speak to people individually, you know, we'll speak to people individually. 238 00:25:54,990 --> 00:25:59,270 They really refused to accept the collective aspects. 239 00:25:59,270 --> 00:26:03,150 You know, they wanted to speak to us as an individual unit. 240 00:26:03,150 --> 00:26:08,160 You know, that individual powerless unit, you know, as you are by yourself, like you don't feel powerful at all, 241 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:13,140 you know, but they just they refused to accept the fact that we were talking as a collective. 242 00:26:13,140 --> 00:26:21,140 They refused to accept the fact that the people there had decided that this person would give them the authority. 243 00:26:21,140 --> 00:26:25,830 You know, we've agreed these points. These are the points we agree on. You know, we want these things to happen. 244 00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:33,300 This person speaks for the authority for all of us. You know, we are we have delegates as our representative in the remove you. 245 00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:40,840 So you need to speak to them. And from what I can gather, I can remember, like the people who were in the room both saying how like delivery. 246 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:50,350 We just refused to accept that that collective voice that a person spoke with. 247 00:26:50,350 --> 00:26:56,960 At the start of the strike, there was no official trade union involved, him representing delivery riders at a large scale. 248 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,120 So you saw that strike initially was called by drivers and free zones. Right. 249 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:10,750 So there was a TKD Hampstead at Belsize with the drivers and those free zones who took no action, like by themselves. 250 00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:16,130 So that day would you had that existing community and I had people who were like leaders who people knew, 251 00:27:16,130 --> 00:27:22,660 everyone knew, and everyone's like respected and spoke to kind of who were able to mobilise people. 252 00:27:22,660 --> 00:27:30,280 As the strike progressed, riders moved to establish official trade union representation through the IWG lobby by 253 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:36,760 joining their courier and logistics branch under the European Convention of Human Rights. 254 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,970 All workers are entitled to union recognition. 255 00:27:39,970 --> 00:27:48,580 However, this does not extend to those that self-employed delivery riders are classed as self-employed independent contractors, 256 00:27:48,580 --> 00:27:55,930 and therefore delivery is not obliged to recognise the right for a trade union to represent a body of workers. 257 00:27:55,930 --> 00:28:03,250 So once we were in the Bronx and we were organised as members of the union delivery stood out, 258 00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:12,340 except kind of that collective that the authority did not recognise the authority of a collective voice like it anyway. 259 00:28:12,340 --> 00:28:13,990 Even now, you know, even up to now, 260 00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:28,280 I know it is like members of the branch who who who are you are forced to do things that are true, like black as themselves, 261 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,360 because it's just because it's quicker to get a response than it's easier to get a 262 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:39,520 response in time for them to act as themselves rather than trying to go to Sri Lanka. 263 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:46,380 We are the union. This is what we say. But that being said, I know like people have had like some success with casework and stuff. 264 00:28:46,380 --> 00:28:55,120 Trudeau a lot of it, a lot of the kind of the union voice getting to deliver is do that by you know, it is through employees, it's through the press. 265 00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:01,390 It's not through a collective conversation. 266 00:29:01,390 --> 00:29:07,660 With respect, on both sides talk like it's it's it's delivery, 267 00:29:07,660 --> 00:29:16,880 dragging their feet and having to be taken through the court of public opinion and the pressure on Congress that to change, 268 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,170 I think meaningfully should a bit [INAUDIBLE]. To be honest, I don't really know if there's a better way to phrase it. 269 00:29:22,170 --> 00:29:25,390 It's just kind of sucks. You know, it's like I call you know, 270 00:29:25,390 --> 00:29:30,130 we've got to through Will especially kind of when you when you when you spent take time strike organisers always just like, 271 00:29:30,130 --> 00:29:36,520 you know, we've got all these members now. We've got all these people kind of why why would they listen to us now like they still wordlist us. 272 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,610 You know, we've got members and we've got people like we still have to like as much has taken action is is fun. 273 00:29:42,610 --> 00:29:47,850 And you shoot OPOWER. How stressful. It's one of those things that I shouldn't have to be you shouldn't have to do that. 274 00:29:47,850 --> 00:29:53,530 You know, I shouldn't have to like I collectively, we shouldn't have to go out and strike and boycott and picket, 275 00:29:53,530 --> 00:29:58,330 do all of these things because like just acknowledge the fact that, you know, we're here. 276 00:29:58,330 --> 00:30:02,770 You see that we're here because we turn up at your office to cause mayhem, because you won't speak to us. 277 00:30:02,770 --> 00:30:06,160 Just speak to us, you know, and it's just it's just it's just. 278 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,340 Yeah, it's it's just imperious. It's everything. Would it anything. It's just like common like for real. 279 00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:17,100 How else do you want us to prove the fact that this is what we're saying and you need to listen to us. 280 00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:19,300 You know, you should be like we shouldn't have to do that. 281 00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:23,500 It's like if you're a kid and you're in a classroom and your hands up, you're like, yo, sir, please, please. 282 00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:28,920 I got I got outside. You know, I've got all these just they're just ignoring like a moment, like for real, 283 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,910 you know, I would like to get somebody from a terror out to listen to. And that's essentially what it's like. 284 00:30:33,910 --> 00:30:36,030 It's like when you're in a classroom or listen to music, 285 00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:41,920 you have to you have to be that kid in the corner there smashing up the table until he listens to you. 286 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,200 And it's like, well, for you, like, you know, we're adults. She for some respect, you know, I'm not I'm not a kid. 287 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:56,410 We've been told off. I'm an adult who's at work, you know, like treat me with a beard to court. 288 00:30:56,410 --> 00:31:05,290 Ultimately, the strikes were unsuccessful. And after several weeks, riders went back to work without their demands being met. 289 00:31:05,290 --> 00:31:12,190 Delivery would go on to implement a piece rate system of payment for all riders on a permanent basis. 290 00:31:12,190 --> 00:31:20,740 However, the IWG be to this day, it's a powerful force campaigning for the rights of careers in the gig economy. 291 00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:26,050 For Mohanned, the shift to piecework ultimately led him to leave career work. 292 00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:33,730 That was the point where I felt like we were getting pushed to go quicker and take more risks than that. 293 00:31:33,730 --> 00:31:41,110 I really should have, you know. And that, yeah, it's just it's just that shift from hourly to piece rate, 294 00:31:41,110 --> 00:32:01,330 just the level of stress induces in people is so hard to imagine unless you're in that situation. 295 00:32:01,330 --> 00:32:10,030 Thanks to Mohan beeswax for sharing his story. For workers to meaningfully have a voice in determining their working conditions, 296 00:32:10,030 --> 00:32:18,250 they must be able to bargain with the platform for collective or representative body at Fair Work. 297 00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:25,630 We believe that all work can and should be characterised by fair pay, fair conditions, fair contracts, 298 00:32:25,630 --> 00:32:36,850 fair management and fair representation platforms ultimately have the power to improve standards and the ability to choose. 299 00:32:36,850 --> 00:32:47,010 In the UK, the structure of gig work means that platforms have no legal obligation to recognise trade unions and other representative organisations. 300 00:32:47,010 --> 00:32:52,810 The platforms can improve the work they provide by taking a proactive approach to representation, 301 00:32:52,810 --> 00:32:56,290 recognising existing organisations where they do exist, 302 00:32:56,290 --> 00:33:04,140 encouraging their development where they don't, and entering into negotiations in good faith at Fair Work. 303 00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:11,290 We're actively campaigning to improve the conditions for gig workers around the world and hold platforms to account. 304 00:33:11,290 --> 00:33:28,398 You can find out more about Fair Work. This episode was written and produced by We'll Be Wearing with Composition by Louis Ballet's.