[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.] Welcome to the third episode of the University of Oxford, Queensland podcast series on sustainable cities.
My name is Doctor Catherine Maxwell and today I will be speaking with Councillor Susan Aitken, leader of Glasgow City Council.
In this episode, we'll be discussing the role of climate finance in enabling cities to reach their climate targets.
Welcome to the podcast, Susan. Thank you.
So let's get started.
Um, so cop 29 this year was billed as the finance cop, and the negotiations were focusing on agreeing a climate finance target to fund climate action.
So this is quite a critical stage because without the funding,
it's going to be increasingly unlikely that countries and cities are going to be
able to limit global warming and also align with the Paris Agreement objectives.
So with that in mind, I'd be interested to get your initial take on the key to progress at Cop 29 on agreeing a global climate finance target.
Um, well, it's clearly fallen short, and I think there's there's no question about that.
Um, you know, I look at the work that we've done in Glasgow to, uh, have clarity around what our, uh,
financial needs are to to decarbonise the city by over a target date of which is net zero by, by 2030.
Uh, and the the net zero route map that we've just produced,
which is the most detailed piece of work that we've done so far in terms of understanding exactly how far we've come,
how far we have to go and how much it's going to cost. And we're talking about between 24 billion and 37 billion, uh, for, um, for one city, um,
now a post-industrial city with challenges where we need to do both mitigation and adaptation.
But nonetheless, um, I don't think that's particularly an outlier, uh, in comparison to many of our peer cities, certainly in the developed world.
So when you just think about that, you think 300 billion is clearly not going to cut it.
Um, you know, arguably it's a start.
And, um, I know that many of the protesters who, uh, back who who were rightly very angry, I wasn't at cop 29 this year.
Um, I was at the U20 summit in Rio, which was on at the same time, where there was a big cities focus.
Um, but I know that lots of them were seeing, um, no deals.
Better than a bad deal. I'm not convinced about that.
I think I come from a very kind of pragmatic point of view on this, is that we just need to do stuff.
We need to get started. We need to be delivering implementation.
Um, and so take the 300 billion. Go on with that.
Keep fighting for more. Uh, but but 300 billion is not going to cut it for for the scale of what needs to be done.
Um, either on mitigation or adaptation.
Um, and adaptation, of course, is often the more challenging bit to fund, but is particularly crucial for ehm, for global South countries.
And just picking up on your point there around eh,
the implementation because the discussions are moving towards actually implementing climate action on the ground.
You know, the kind of logistical side of that and obviously the financing.
Why is climate finance so important right now for cities a and national governments?
Because I think people listening to the podcast might think, okay, the fallen short of a climate target, but what does that actually really mean?
And what does it mean for me? So why is that climate finance so critical at this moment for cities?
Um, it's because cities are ready to implement. We we are we are ready.
We've got the plans. We know what we need to do.
Um, we are, you know, cities, um, are are focussed on delivery.
We we deliver every single day. We we do the practical stuff, whether it's, um, you know, educating kids or providing care for,
um, vulnerable people or, um, emptying bins, whatever it is, cities deliver every single day.
Um, and we are absolutely pleased to do that in terms of climate action as well.
But also, you know, I think I think we are we absolutely are critical point at the moment in terms of
securing any sort of continuing global consensus around a around climate action,
um, indeed, around a, you know, kind of international climate agreement.
Uh, the, um, the re-election of Trump will have emboldened a lot of, of climate deniers,
a lot of those who would seek to, um, backslide or indeed follow him in withdrawing altogether.
So there's something really critical about, actually,
we need to be demonstrating to our citizens right now that this absolutely can make their lives better,
um, in ways that are very relevant to them and in their day to day.
So, you know, just to give an example, in Glasgow, we know that having, um, getting, um,
the finance that we need to deliver a retrofit will bring people's fuel bills down right now.
Um, particularly an older housing stock in our what we call our pre 1919 tenement stock.
Um, where, you know, it's a fantastic, uh, model of, um, uh,
kind of a mid density urban living which has survived well over 100 years for a good reason, but is thermally very, very inefficient.
Um, you know, we know we could make a big difference with that right now for people we know we could make a big difference.
And we have a plan to transition the entire city to renewable source heat networks.
We know how to do it. Um, we know it would make a big difference.
Um, as we, um, do a major shift towards, uh, decarbonised transportation and mobility,
uh, a combination of much better public transport and, um, active travel infrastructure.
We are already investing in. All of that and making people's lives better as a consequence.
But to do it on the scale that we need to do it for the planet.
We also need to the finance. And in order to do it so it you know, the idea.
We're still it's very frustrating to watch the discussions something like 26 where it
national governments it where states are still talking about moving to implementation.
Um the the you 20 summit, which is an urban parallel to the G20 in Rio, which happened at the same time as, uh, Cop 29.
We are already on implementation.
We're talking, you know, the cities are actually sharing practical learning and examples with each other around delivery and finance and,
and the the difference that that's making for citizens and how you maximise multiple benefits
for every single pound or dollar or euro or whatever it is you're spending for delivery.
How do you then actually also address, um, some of the, some of the deep seated inequalities that all of our cities contend with, for example.
And so so that's why finance matters so much.
Uh, we we can show people we have the ability to show people right now that, um, climate action, climate delivery can make their lives better.
And for a whole number of reasons, we need to do that because people have been, um, going through a [INAUDIBLE] of a rough time recently.
Um, because they are vulnerable to the kind of side and voices of, of climate denial, um, who are saying this is too expensive, we can't afford this.
Um, you should be getting something else instead. We need to be able to demonstrate, um, that actually, this is the something else.
This is for you. Uh, it's not just abstract.
It's, um. It's not just for, um, for something that's in the future.
It's. It's for the heat and. No. That's a really interesting point.
And just going back actually to you mentioned during the scale of finance, a required and even know for Glasgow alone it's a significant amount.
I think you said was a 40 billion. Is that correct?
Yeah. So we we started off um with an estimate of between 30 and 40 billion.
We've made progress from there. And we're now we depending on on and how fast we're able to go over the next few years between 27.
Um, no. Sorry. 24 and a 30 something billion we're looking at still for delivery.
But a lot of that depends on the piece of delivery. So if we want to go faster, it'll cost a bit more.
But then we get the outcomes more quickly. Um, or we could spend a bit less, but we don't get the outcomes as quickly as we'd like.
But either we it's a lot of money. Yeah.
Yeah. Significant and just and Glasgow is obviously a global North city.
How does how does the climate finance kind of differ in global South cities in terms of needs.
So I think the the for global South cities the adaptation need is often much more urgent.
Um than it is for global north cities. Um, it's not that we don't have an adaptation need here, but the reality is that while we do have, um,
increasing flood risk and flood incidents in Glasgow, um, at the moment it's causing inconvenience.
It's not killing people. People, you know, people aren't being washed away in Glasgow by by floodwaters.
People aren't dying from extreme heat. Um, you know, we're not, um, people aren't, um, having their entire livelihoods and homes lost in mudslides.
That's happening in the Global South all the time and actually has been for a number of years.
Um, so the need for, um, for adaptation, um, for both for heat and for flooding, particularly um,
in the global South is is urgent and is existential in a way that in the global North it's very, very important.
And and we need to we can't forget adaptation. Um, it often gets forgotten about in the conversation.
Adaptation needs to be hand in hand with mitigation.
Um, but it's it isn't. Um, I think for most global North cities, there isn't that immediate sense of existential urgency.
Adaptation, though, is often more difficult to to get the finance for because there are less obvious, um, returns for an investor.
Um, in in adaptation and resilience and than that are for, um, for mitigation.
So for example um heat transition there's other are obvious ways there.
But I think of something like um like like energy retrofit of,
of existing homes and buildings and it's perhaps it's an, it's in both it's both the adaptation and mitigation space.
Um, and it's, it's probably the single most expensive piece of work that we need to do in Glasgow across the Glasgow Metropolitan Region.
We've costed that up at about £11 billion, um, of worth of work in, um, over about a 400,000 existing homes.
And where how do we how do we create a financial package for an investor that,
um, you know, delivers them that kind of return on patient capital for that?
Um, you know, there's so that's one of the things that we are working on in Glasgow.
We've got a wee bit more time to work our way through that. And in actual fact, we are working just now, um, as a city, we've invested in, um,
in creating the capacity to build financial models that'll allow us to have the confidence to go into investor partnerships on,
uh, for, for climate interventions. The global South doesn't have that luxury.
Um, and, and the needs that intervention know and, and the need, um, governments to step in because see,
this is a space where private finance is going to be slower and more reluctant to step in.
There are some things where it's going to have to be public money in, in one form and another,
whether it's coming from national governments, from the world Bank, for example, that just steps in and does this stuff.
Um, and as I see at the moment, it certainly feels like, um, the amount that they're talking about is falling far short of what's needed.
Yeah.
And there's a noticeable, you know, climate investment gap, with cities worldwide receiving around 7 or 8% of the climate finance currently required.
What do you think are some of the broader kind of challenges that cities face when trying to secure climate finance?
So, um, there's quite a few, uh, capacity is one.
Um, cities are we are, by and large, um, not set up to deal with finance at that scale.
Um, so to put it. Into context in Glasgow in recent years, we settled on a historic, um.
Discrimination issue which which my administration inherited.
Um, um, which which I took on when I became leader of the city and said,
we are going to settle with these women who have been discriminated against an equal pay case.
Um, and the, the, the settlement ultimately was, um, in the region of £750 million.
Um, that was huge. Uh, that was probably, you know, the biggest, um, financial deal that we had done as a city.
Um, and one of the biggest financial interventions, uh, that we ever had to negotiate and, um, do all the work around, uh, you know,
making sure that we, we first of all, we could get the resource in, but also that it was sustainable for us to pay that, uh, back over a long period.
And, you know, it was it was a massive thing at the time.
And we were kind of like, oh, my God, you know, this is such a huge amount of money, £750 million not to underplay that.
That's a very small amount compared to what we're talking about for major climate interventions.
It's it's actually a drop in the ocean, um, for the scale and pace that we need to go a lot to,
um, to deliver, uh, heat and energy transition, for example, across the city.
So we, um, and for us, that 750 million was a big deal.
Most cities don't have folk.
Um, because it's it's not something that we ordinarily have to do who are dealing with, um, kind of finance at that scale and at that level,
getting into the multiple billions, um, the investment, the work that we do all the more cities are very, um, well versed in inward investment.
It tends to be more in the space of things like, um, you know, maybe new housing, um,
or, um, a new a new hotel or, uh, you know, that new office space, that kind of thing.
It's often, um, in real estate, um, is it's not in, um, the often in the kind of scale of infrastructure change that we're talking about.
What actually of the, the very systems or systems that we function on are going to have to change quite rapidly.
So there's a capacity, a knowledge, a skills issue there, which cities who are, um, able to are moving very fast to try and address.
Um, and we can do that actually in partnership with, with institutional and private investors.
But that's a challenge to begin with. Um, and there's a thing that my finance director always says to me, we can and you can borrow the money.
It's paying it back. That's the, the issue.
You know, at the end of all of this, we still have to deliver all those public services and we need to have the confidence, um,
going into any investor partnership that,
that those public services are not going to be affected because that is that's first and foremost what we're here to do.
That's our job. We have statutory duties that we have to deliver as a local authority.
Um, and all cities are in that position.
Um, so there is something about having the confidence that we can do this, that we can enter into financial deals with those,
um, it coming back to bite our services and our citizens, um, where they end up losing out.
Because what we want is to make sure that there are multiple benefits.
Um, and I suppose that's the other the other part of it is that, um, the planning is, uh, is really a big,
a big piece of work and a big ask, uh, to make sure, you know, if we're going to have this just transition that we all aspire to.
Um, and indeed is absolutely essential that it needs to be properly planned.
We need clarity about what it is we're delivering, what outcomes we're getting from that.
Obviously, in terms of, um, the contribution we'll make to reducing our emissions,
but also the contribution, albeit to, um, making, uh, places and lives better in all of our cities.
Um, so we need clarity around that. And then I think there is just this kind of it culturally, um,
big financial institutions don't really look to cities as the place to make investments.
Um, and so there's relationship building there.
There's, um, the, there's a real sort of cultural shift to happen whereby, um, cities and the world of finance are able to talk to each other,
to understand each other, to understand each other's needs and requirements and, and to be able to meet in the middle.
Um, you know, I think I've, I've said in the past, you know, we, um, we all need to get over ourselves a little bit.
So the public sector needs to realise that we are not.
The only ones, um, that are that care about good outcomes for the environment and for for the economy and for, um, for for social outcomes.
Um, that actually there are plenty investors out there who maybe are thinking about those things as well.
And in fact, that's more and more common.
Um, but equally, the private sector, um, needs to understand that the public sector, um, can be effective and that we can deliver the, um, you know,
the effective implementation isn't, uh, uh,
the prerogative of the private sector that we could we we are capable of doing it as well and indeed have done.
Um, and I would argue that, uh, for all, um, its faults and failures in,
in many places it's been cities who demonstrated throughout the Covid pandemic, uh,
that we are able to deliver, um, to, to move quickly,
to adapt quickly and to support our populations in times of crisis and make sure that we we come out the other side.
Um, so I think, um, more and more we are able to find that common space, but there's still work to be done there.
Um, and finally, I think national governments still don't get it.
National governments are still they're very focussed on doing things at national level and creating national programs and frankly,
slowing everything up. Um, they need to be devolving, um, levers and resources to cities and let cities get on with this,
because cities actually are in the position to do the delivery that meeting nationally set targets demands.
And because it isn't happening right now without the urban transition governments.
So governments in the case I'm talking about, both the UK and Scottish governments are not going to be able to meet their targets.
Um, but they're not they're still not connecting with the urban transition enough.
They're not seeing it as the solution. Um, that it is.
And that they need to be seeing us. So there's quite a lot in there.
There's a whole number of things just now that are standing in the way of the, the money reaching the cities in the way that it needs to.
But it is in everyone's interests for finance to be, to be flowing to the cities much more readily and much more quickly than it is just now.
And do you think that, you know, with many cities around the world starting to, you know, come to grips with the different skills,
as you mentioned and knowledge that's required and the confidence as well to, to secure that investment.
A lot of cities are being quite proactive in learning from each other and looking at best practice.
How can cities effectively work together through different networks, such as the C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group?
You know, where there are opportunities to share that best practice to to mobilise climate finance and then deliver on their climate ambitions.
We wouldn't have made the progress we've made in Glasgow in the past, um, sort of five years, if it hadn't been for the,
um, the connections that we've made with other cities through those global networks like C40,
like Italy, um, like the U20 and UN, many others, in fact,
the I really should mention the Global Resilient Cities Network since I am the chair of that.
Um, so the Global Resilient Cities Network, which is working in that very specific space of adaptation and resilience and really,
um, bringing that particular perspective in to, um, to make sure that it's on the table along with, with mitigation.
Um, so, you know, we've we've certainly learned an enormous amount and been able to grow at a much faster pace than we would have done otherwise.
Specifically on financial models, we've learned very closely from Bristol.
Um, um, worked really closely with them. Their Bristol Leap model has, um, as just a one.
Um, I think it was at the World Economic Forum, just a was uh, one won some awards and was acknowledged as being a real pioneer.
Um, we are working just now to create a Glasgow version of that, not just, um, you know,
to adopt what they've done, to learn from it and have one that suits our particular circumstances as a city.
We're very different from Bristol in a lot of ways. Um, but they've done amazing work.
Uh, they've done some really interesting work around financial models in London as well with their London Edge model,
which is a different kind of a model. It's an investment vehicle.
Um, the Bristol Leap is a delivery vehicle. Um, on energy transition particularly.
Um, so loads to learn from there. Um, you know, real and a Nairobi and a couple of other cities are, um, piloting, uh, biodiversity credits.
Um, a scheme just now which, uh, I think is, is really interesting.
Um, as something we are looking at in Glasgow, which is, um, you know, we are cities have, um, are able to, uh,
actually use our existing biodiversity as well as our plans for improving it, uh, to finance, uh, future investment in biodiversity, for example.
Um, so, so there's all sorts of incredible stuff going on in cities.
Um, and it's, it is those networks through talking to each other, sharing best practice that will constantly improve our delivery, improve outcomes.
Um, and as I see, I think improve our, um, our offer in terms of, uh, investable propositions to,
um, to, to the investors that are out there to the climate finance that's out there.
And do you think them, without that kind of knowledge around climate finance and sharing,
that they can have skills and building that confidence that without that it will not really be possible to ehm, implement their climate actions.
So for example, developing a sustained, unpredictable flow of climate finance.
So do you think that that's not going to be likely without kind of cities learning from each other, sharing and kind of building that momentum?
It will certainly be much, much harder. I think if cities are going out there and and all having to act on their own without the, um,
the knowledge that they're, we're not on our own, that this is happening, that we're all grappling with this right now.
And there's a lot to share and a lot to learn. Um, so the Resilient Cities Network, for example,
has all sorts of learning models that the chief resilience officers in the member cities are able to tap into.
Um, either online or connecting with each other.
Um, and really get that learning, um, uh, get access to it quickly and easily and then apply it,
um, and get, get support to apply it to, to their own cities.
Um, yeah. That's, that's just one example without the finance.
It's not that cities won't be delivering climate action. We are and we will, but the scale and the pace of it isn't going to be what's needed.
Um, you know, if we're serious on collectively serious and national governments are serious about,
um, at the very least, uh, still trying to keep 1.5 in our sights.
Um, but, uh, but also planning for, um, for for city to.
And then that, you know, the impacts that that would have that we, we have to protect people from.
And if we are serious about that, and I think, um, you know, most of the governments that got to 89, um, are sincere,
uh, even if they're not, they haven't quite got their heads round what they really need to be doing it.
Um, then it is in everybody's interest for the cities to be delivered in at scale.
Um, and therefore, it's in everyone's interest for the financial force to reach cities.
And if that sometimes means that they're bypassing national governments or that they're going straight through national governments to cities,
then that's the way that it needs to happen. Um, okay.
And there are multiple approaches that, you know, cities are currently taking to secure that climate finance that's required.
You know, there's the regional development funding approach, which, you know, Melbourne,
City of Melbourne adopted to implement cycling infrastructure during the pandemic.
And there's green bonds, which Cape Town has adopted to implement adaptation type projects.
So there are different approaches that cities are taking.
Uh, I'd be interested to get your view on, um, from your experience, you know, how are cities accessing this climate finance at the moment?
You know, going above and beyond, as you said, the critical kind of public services that, you know, you have to kind of protect.
Um, so how are cities accessing climate finance? What kind of approaches are they taking in your, in your view?
So you've mentioned a couple already.
There's um green bonds and, and um, and, and variations on those uh, again sort of um, biodiversity and, and um, and,
and kind of green space bonds as a, you know, particularly focusing on that side of things is another emerging model.
Um, there's recognising that, um, sequestration, uh, and, and um,
and kind of carbon credits are a reality and that a lot of companies are a are investing in,
not, uh, as a bridge to their own, uh, decarbonisation, recognising that it's not going to happen immediately.
So they're investing in carbon credits, for example,
cities could be in a space with the right framework and the right assurances, uh, to benefit from that as well.
Um, through through our own investment to be able to help, um, the private sector, uh, demonstrate that their,
uh, their tax treatment and carbon credit efforts are, are legitimate and are credible.
Um, there are the a the kinds of models that we are exploring in Glasgow, which we think are ones that we could make work for us.
We are, um, the, you know, the, the investment vehicle, for example, is a kind of,
um, uh, uh, I put a shared pot that different projects can bid into.
Um, the delivery vehicle is, uh, a kind of a partnership with a company, with the private sector that also has the expertise to actually do the work.
So, you know, um, dig up your streets, put in physically put in heat networks and connect buildings to it.
That's the kind of thing that's going to be happening all over the all over our cities in the coming years.
Um, and again, we, we, we need the technical expertise to be able to do that.
So if we're going to be going into relationships with folks with the technical expertise, then, um,
maybe that are, uh, partnerships that can be done around the investment flows that are needed for that as well.
Um, you know, in the end, though, however, we frame these things, the ultimately our borrowing, you know, that's what it comes down to.
It is we are borrowing, um, and we're using our assets, whatever assets we've got as a city.
Um, as the, the security or for, for that borrowing, um, or us as the leverage for that borrowing.
Um, and, and that's the, the challenging bit. And that I think, is where we could do with national governments, um,
standing beside and behind us, um, as a, as guarantors, almost as you like that seeing.
Yes. This is ah, um, this is a safe investment and we will we will make sure that it remains a safe investment.
Uh, you know, should should the worst come to the worst in a city, which actually,
I don't think is something that, um, you know, is something we're going to see happening very often.
Um, but should cities reach the point where they're not able to meet their obligations in terms of the borrowing, um,
that national governments are there to, to stand behind them, recognising the all of this infrastructure, all of this investment isn't for nothing.
It is actually, you know, it's. This is is an existential necessity, but it is also the biggest opportunity that we've got, um, climate action.
And I don't think we're being, um, I, I don't think that national leaders are seeing that often enough.
Um, I think there's too many of them trying to play it down.
You know, Sir Keir Starmer said that, um,
cop 29 that the that the UK government could deliver on its climate objectives without disrupting people's lives.
It's just not true. Do we have you know, of course we have to to shock to people's lives.
Retrofitting, um, uh, 120 year old sandstone tenement is going to be disruptive for the people who live in that, um, you know,
that are going to have to be expectations around culture change and behaviour change in the and mobility within our cities,
the way that people move around, the way that they, um, access transport, the kinds of transport that they use.
And we yeah, we are going to disrupt people's lives.
We are going to have to ask people to change the way that we behave.
And we are literally have to going to have to go into their homes, um, in order to, to do some of the key elements of that urban transition.
The point is, though, that it will be worth it, that the outcomes of that disruption,
if we do this right, it will actually has the potential to make people's lives better.
It improves their quality of life to improve their their health and their wellbeing.
Um, and to, um, actually move us toward, towards a, an economy that's a much more sustainable in terms of the environment,
but also much more sustainable and much more equitable in terms of the way that it impacts on,
um, our communities and on, um, people's quality of life.
And Glasgow has been quite exceptionally proactive in exploring that green investment.
But alongside the just transition as well, um, with the recent equity investment team plans.
I just as we wrap up,
what can what kind of lessons have been learned to date from from Glasgow's experience that could be shared with other cities around the world?
If there was a lesson that you could share around either, um, setting up the a green investment team or different types of funding,
different types of projects or programmes, what would that be that that you could share with other cities?
So I think a couple of things is, um, relatively small amounts of investment by you as a city, um,
can make a big difference in terms of building your capacity in terms of getting
you into a place as a city where you've got that assurance and confidence,
um, that you can go ahead and enter into, um, you know, invest or partnerships at a scale that you previously might not have been used to.
Uh, so in Glasgow, we've committed, um, uh, just recently.
It's not it's not the first investment, but it's the biggest one so far.
We've committed, uh, £4 million, uh, to grow our capacity to both internally, but also to, um,
where we need to buy in some external capacity, particularly around legal and procurement, uh, knowledge.
Um, and that, uh, is, is already putting us in a place where, um, we, we know that we're on the right track.
Uh, whereas maybe two years ago, we were still a bit kind of.
Okay, we think that we're in the right space, but really, are we having the right conversations?
Do we really know what the needs are on either side? Um, so, so that relatively small amounts of investment can make the difference?
Um. Take a bit of time. You know, a lot of us have set very, very ambitious targets, and I think that's really important.
Cities, by and large, are more ambitious and, and, um, are driving forward ahead of, um, of national governments.
Um, and we're pulling national governments behind us, which is really important.
Uh, but we're also a lot of us looking at these targets and going, oh, my God, the clock is ticking.
Um, don't panic, panic a bit.
Um, because this is a subject that requires urgency.
Um, but don't panic. Take the time that you need to get yourself into the right place so that when you go, um,
you can you can go with confidence and you're not having to then take steps back all the time.
Um, treat it as an iterative process. Um, and again, you know, keep checking your pull more because you're going along.
Um, but I think also just, uh, just, you know, if you're not talking to other cities just now, do it.
Um, get get get in with these networks. Um, get get active.
Um, I both at political and officer level.
And because it is the it is the best tonic to be around other cities and to to hear the discussion is, you know, for me,
looking at what was happening in 29 and feeling it's very easy to feel very low and very despondent about what feels like a lack of progress.
Um, when you're around cities,
you come out with a spring in your step because cities are full of purpose and there's real solidarity between cities on this.
Um, and and real, um, shared focus on implementation, on delivery, on our citizens, um, as well as on the planet.
And, um, so, yeah, if, if you're, if you're feeling a bit lost and a bit isolated in this space, you don't have to be.
And there are lots of city networks there. We are a relatively small investment will bring you big returns in terms of partnership and learning and,
um, experience and helping to mobilise at scale, absolutely at scale and at peace.
And in, in the UK particularly, I mean I would I'll always plug the um, the global Resilient Cities network.
But I would also mention um CCI, the um, the Cities Commission for fine, um, Cities Commission for Climate Investment.
And that's why we call it CCI. It's much easier. Um, which came out of Cop26, which happened in Glasgow, of course, very much led by cities.
Um, the, the work and the modelling that CCI are doing and which is quite, is quite digestible.
It's kind of bite sized. You know, the net zero neighbourhood model, for example,
is a we the even smaller cities or cities who are up against it financially can look and go, right.
Yeah, we could do that. Actually. That's something we could take on.
Um, and delivered. And it is that kind of iterative, incremental process.
None of us are going to be able to do this in one go. Um, but, uh, you know, that that if we do need to do it at peace and scale, um,
there are a lot of folk there who are in developing ways that are allowing us to
up the pace and scale in a way that's manageable and is is within our grasp.
Um, and it's not going to leave us kind of, um,
floundering and in a space where as a see our public services and our citizens are being put at risk as a consequence.
That's great. Susan. Thank you so much for your time and your insights.
It's been fascinating to hear, uh, your perspective on sort of financing urban climate action and the kind of ambitious role that
the Glasgow City Council is also planning to reduce emissions and achieve net zero targets.
So thank you very much. Thank you. Good to speak to you. Thank you for listening.
In our next episode, I will be speaking to Mark Royce, executive director of C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group.
We'll be reflecting on Cop 29 and exploring both the progress made,
as well as the key challenges that cities must overcome to deliver on their climate commitments.