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Me, actually, mainly, you know, I think I'm going to reduce my position as chair briefly to introduce what he's going to say.

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And actually, I don't need to do too much because a lot of things I might talk about in the next 5 minutes have already been covered,

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which is the role and the increasingly guiding role of the quest for impact in academic research,

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arguably, particularly in criminology and arguably particularly in policing studies.

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And that's there in a nice area of research and we've been bandying this word around quite a lot.

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Impacts, Chris mentioned it, Rachel mentioned it.

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What does it mean for those of you unfamiliar with this, this research council terminology?

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Well, here's an excerpt from the SC Economic and Social Science Research Council website.

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What is impacts? Research Impacts embraces all the diverse ways that research related skills benefit individuals, organisations and nations.

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So it's quite large despite big concepts.

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And you can see they mentioned economic performance, they mentioned increasing the effectiveness of public services in policy.

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They talk about enhancing quality of life, health and creative impact and they talk about impact being demonstrable.

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So what you have to do when you have a research grant from the SC and from other funding bodies as well,

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at the end of that grant you have to demonstrate to them in some way, in theory that your research has had an impact and they can't just say that.

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So you have to give them evidence, evidence of Rachel's work. Such a huge amount of impact because it's actually changed policy in government.

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That's what they mean when they talk about impacts. So enough not enough to say lots of people have downloaded my journal article.

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You have to say this happened. This changed. I think that is that. Fair enough.

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Karen, does that sound about right? Something about that. Yeah. And this, I think, as I say, has been taken to heart, I think,

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by many people working on police and policing in particular, actually in other areas of criminology as well.

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And you have to now design your research proposals with impacts,

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as I've just described it in mind and specifically in the proposal in lots of different ways, actually.

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And there have been some very clear benefits from this process, don't get me wrong,

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is going to and identify some of the problems behind this, the increasing dominance of this kind of agenda within criminology.

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But there have been clearly been benefits. So I think one benefit has been a greater emphasis on reliability and validity of research designs.

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If you're going to want if you want your research to have an impact on you and policymakers or practitioners or whoever it is to pick up on it,

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you have to make sure it's right. And I think you have to make more of an effort than you did in the past to make sure you're getting it right.

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So make sure the claims you are making were in some sense valid.

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I think there's been more engagement between academics and police organisations.

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Chris's already talked a lot about that and the press that point out for one useful outcome

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of that actually has been a declining propensity to see the police just as the enemy,

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which many criminologists in the past were prone to do.

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It's a bit more complicated than that, and of course, this is another way of accessing research funding.

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So one of the reasons why we're interested in this, because it's just another way of getting money.

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And again, Chris, it talks about the study and I always like to have a quote from Marx, if I can.

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And this is the whole point. Right. The first is that in terms of the world, the point is to change.

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If we think we're doing research, we want to change the world with this research, with this research in some sense.

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And this kind of agenda has focussed people's minds more clearly on that.

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But as I say, there are problems and again, Chris has already mentioned some of these much more eloquently than I could actually.

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I think there's a risk of narrowing the field, narrowing the field in terms of the objects of the study and the motivations for that study.

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I think there's a specific and particular danger within policing studies of parochialism, which comes out in many ways in policy,

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it comes out tends to come in dominance of Anglo-American research and Anglo-American ways of

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thinking parochialism in terms of focusing on the organisation itself in organisational practice,

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rather than the context within which that organisation sits and functions.

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There's an increasing emphasis on particular forms of methodology which can serve to exclude other

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methodologies and here would be the dreaded randomised controlled trial would be one way to assign that.

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And arguably I think this is inspired, this is well, I'll hand over to him.

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There's a significant risk of too close the link between the academy and its objects of study.

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And we start and there's an increasing recursively increasingly increasing risk that

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we increasingly address someone else's research questions rather than our own.

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And that was me abusing my role as chair. So now I'm going to hand over Swain for the rest of the talk.

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One of the lessons I've just learned about this new world is never come after a film.

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I also feel somewhat cautious and embarrassed about giving a talk whose title is doing research about

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impact when writers just demonstrated just how creatively it's possible to do research with impact.

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But as Ben alluded to, we don't think this essay is the main reason for giving this title The Talk.

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This title was to advertise a book.

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So I mainly want to talk about is the book that Ben and myself and Jonny Steinberg and an anthropologist called Beach,

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our guy in Toronto is currently editing, but also to kind of set that book in some context and to say a little bit about what motivated us in my case,

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to do something I never usually do, which is edit handbooks. So and Ben alluded to some of that motivation,

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and it was a motivation generated by the fact that for all there have been many benefits from the ways, especially in the UK context.

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The academics and police institutions have become much closer, have collaborated much more closely,

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increasingly share a language and don't speak past each other, of which Ben is alluded to that that has come with certain kinds of costs.

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And we I think we both say this has people in various ways engaged ourselves very closely in that kind of exercise of collaboration,

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while also wanting to kind of just kind of think a bit more both about what it means to do that.

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And I suppose importantly and as what happens to a field of inquiry collectively,

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the more the centre of gravity shifts down that road so that we see the kind of what is to become clear be the

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handbook of global policing as part of an attempt not to say to people that we shouldn't do research about impact,

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but just to kind of realise that there are other kinds of questions that we want to keep him play that it's

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possible to lose sight of when one focuses as we increasingly courage to do with doing research with impact.

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Having said that, it should be said that we are not the only people to ever have thought of this question.

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The impact agenda is not, though it is become much more dominant in policing studies in a very particular form in this country.

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In other kind of forms, especially in the US,

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say that that kind of proximity between the police institutions and those who study them have not exhausted

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the kinds of questions that we might want to think about when one thinks about this idea of global policing.

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So for all that been said, that the sociology of policing is a is an area of study dominated by Anglo-American

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scholarship and a focus on English and American police institutions.

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There is an increasing range of knowledge about police practices in institutions in other places and

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the comparative literature about the differences between those places on various kinds of criteria.

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We now live in a world in which one of the features of of policing policy and practice is this kind of circulation of policy of of rhetorics,

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of motifs across jurisdictions, which is both involved certain police academics in the business of being entrepreneurs and exporters

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of some of those ideas around community policing or problem orientated policing or zero tolerance,

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but also some to engage in the kind of in the kind of critical analysis, both sociologically,

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of what happens when those kind of ideas circulated and imported and exported or more critically,

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to ask serious questions about the, as it were, the attempts to impose certain kinds of Western models of doing policing on the Global South.

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It's important to say, thirdly, that the idea of global policing has come to mean the thing that you most commonly associated with,

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meaning implicit in police scholarship, which is both the the emergence of increasingly thicker forms of international police cooperation,

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the development of transnational police institutions,

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in other words,

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the way in which policing is kind of escaping its it's kind of modern happening within the boundaries of the nation state and the whole literature,

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some of which is, is very policy oriented and close to subjects to be studied,

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some of which is more critical on those processes of internationalisation.

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And of course, there is a kind of final version of that kind of intimation of globalisation,

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which is what we rather crudely and provocatively called here. Impact goes global,

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by which we mean a kind of those coalitions of kind of police scholars and police police officers who are

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engaged in trying to to to articulate and disseminate and spread some notion of evidence based policing,

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which, in other words,

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some some version of the relationship between or some version of policing, which has a particular conception of what good policing is,

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or embedded in the knowledge of what works and choice to articulate in a particular

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kind of way what the relationship between police institutions and police research is.

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And if one of the worries about the impact agenda is it makes everyone very local in their orientations.

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I think the evidence based policing movement is actually evidence that you

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can think about these things and actually be very global in your aspirations.

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Which brings us to this book, and what we've been trying to do is actually think about the different kinds of ways of all the

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different kind of signals or references that this idea of global policing can bring into view.

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And to think about this is the kind of this is the kind of slightly kind of pompous

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and ambitious version of the book to not just kind of map a field of study,

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which we in some sense think already exists, which is, of course, the thing that handbooks classically do,

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but actually to try and to pick up signs of a different kind of way of thinking

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about global policing and to and to bring it and to better bring it into view,

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to give it some kind of orientations and shape with a view to trying to create a kind of enterprise around the sociology of the study of policing,

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which is intellectually curious, methodologically pluralist, theoretically situated and civically engaged.

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And I'll come back to that point in the end,

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because part of the point might be that though there can be an overlap between civic engagement as researchers

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and the thing we call impact that that they might not necessarily mean or entail the same kinds of things.

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So how many how much when we how we got from this point.

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Okay. So the notion of global policing for us in this text is kind of meant to signal the following lines of questioning.

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First, an attempt to very consciously make the study of policing more intellectually global,

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by which we mean to kind of to to to spread it beyond the fields of inquiry in which it has come to be located.

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And now, of course, there is a there is a. To plural history to this.

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The study of policing in the Western world, as it were, started in sociology.

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It's been informed in all kinds of ways by law, by psychology, by history.

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It's increasingly, however, in recent years itself, almost morphed in various places into a subdiscipline of its own.

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The danger of that being that it then starts to erect barriers between the wider forms of disciplinary inquiry that generated it in the first place.

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So part of what we've been trying to do in relation to first those questions is to try and get people from a wider range of fields philosophy,

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political theory, geography, English, literature.

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I've got a rest. I'm on my list.

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There's a longer list which I've now forgotten, who might not necessarily have thought very much about policing before,

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or thought about it only tangentially to think about the question about why policing

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matters from someone who thinks about this question as a philosopher or as a geographer,

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and to think about what kinds of questions of the policing institutions and practices you might ask.

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If you analyse it from that perspective.

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Now, that, of course carries all kinds of risks that we're constructing disciplines as fixed categories in themselves.

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We think there is a risk worth taking. And secondly,

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we've we've tried to mobilise a range of authors to think about the relationship between police institutions and

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practices and a series of concepts that have to do with the organisation of social relations and political life.

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Now as well the standard and reduced way in which that connection is now made.

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Well, it principally takes the form of a kind of talk,

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a kind of endless and recurring debate about whether the police are primarily interested in crime and it's control narrowly

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conceived or about whether they're concerned with the maintenance and reproduction of order rather than more broadly conceived.

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And Ben and I have done our best in this book to keep that tradition alive. But then our attempt has been strong,

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widen the lens in terms of the kinds of concepts in social and political theory with which through which you might think about policing.

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Now, there's been some of that in recent years inside police studies,

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most obviously in relation to legitimacy to some extent in relation to democracy.

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We've tried to extend that both by encouraging people to return to a kind of

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classic question to do with the relationship between policing and the state,

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but also to think about a wider range of police concepts dignity, difference, inequality, rights, war, and so on.

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Thirdly. I think there's a common way in which the notion of globalisation mainly signals and mainly signals,

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an emphasis on questions of space rather than time.

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And the way there's a way in which the even in the context of thinking globally about policing,

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the bulk of attention is still focussed on Anglo-American scholarship or increasingly the EU.

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Because when people think about globalisation of policing in the standard sense, the EU is a place to which you turn.

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By contrast, we've tried to introduce this notion of transitions and legacies as a way, firstly,

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of trying to to lift policing scholarship out of the kind of frame of mature liberal democracies,

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and also to think about the consequences for policing institutions of various kinds of ruptures in social relations.

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And this is both centres to back or encourage people to go back and think about a series

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of of no unstudied things to do with the consequences for policing of of colonialism,

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of post authoritarianism, of escaping from conflict,

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of the consequences of revolution, but also polity to bear and to avoid the risk that this becomes the place where we talk about other places,

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to think about certain kinds of transitions that can happen inside standard democracies.

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So we have a chapter on policing after universal suffrage, for instance, a chapter on policing after civil rights.

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And then finally, we wanted to encourage and reflection on both on what happens to a series of of a rather standard

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series of problems or themes in relation to policing under conditions of globalisation.

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We are not just focusing on how this is articulated in an Anglo-American context.

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So for example, in relation to technology or protest policing or gender or terrorism,

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but also to think about the new kinds of problematics and themes that emerge under those conditions of globalisation in relation to things like,

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for example, environmental harm and mobility.

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So it is very briefly, this is ended up looking a bit like this.

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Firstly, this is a handbook of policing in which criminology is represented only very tangentially

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and gets and gets accompanied by authors from a whole series of other disciplines,

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including, I'm ashamed to say, a whole bunch of people I didn't even know existed six months ago and an attempt.

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But there's still a fairly good representation of people from the US and American Canada attempt

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to actually mobilise both established and younger scholars from different parts of the world.

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So we can actually make real this in a sense, in terms of the book itself, this idea of global policing, this book is currently in process.

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We have most of the chapters in which no one's missing in action.

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All that kind of stand to things about is in books, are in process, but so far what have we learned?

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Firstly,

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I think the thing I think we've discovered partly is that the study of and this this is what kind of worth thinking about in relation to some of the

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dangers of Christmas is looking to that if you if you think more globally in

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terms of discipline and in terms of jurisdiction about the study of policing,

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the picture becomes a much more optimistic one because in all kinds of ways, it seems that the study of policing is alive and well,

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both in different parts of the globe and in different disciplines, but unevenly.

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So. So one of the things that we've discovered in the context of writing this book,

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for example, is a kind of a kind of an offshoot, a dramatic word like explosion.

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I can't think of a better one, a kind of explosion of interest in police and police practices in anthropology.

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So there's now a thriving subfield of the anthropology of policing,

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which gets fairly well represented in this book, which I'll come back to in a minute.

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But there have been other areas of the kind of social sciences where we've struggled.

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So, for example, we have we spent many a long our trying to find an economist to write about policing.

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We eventually tracked down one economist who in the end was unable to deliver from the book.

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No, no, not have a chapter on economics. And that's that's I don't say that for as a kind of individual thing.

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I say that as a kind of reflection on as a way of reflecting on where in the social sciences the study of policing is currently taking place and.

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The second thing to say,

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it's partly about method and I slightly worry we've kind of inadvertently reproduced an unfortunate methodological division because Chris

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was saying in his talk that there's a kind of there isn't much space for ethnography in the world of a police academic collaboration.

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And in fact, conversely, we've discovered and this is partly a consequence of the renaissance of policing in anthropology,

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a kind of renaissance of ethnography in the way in which policing is studied, which is reflected in the book.

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And conversely, there's not many chapters of the all in the book which are quantitative.

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Rather surprisingly, I find myself to be the co-author of one of them, in fact, the only one.

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So we've we've inadvertently, I think,

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generated a kind of the methodological flipside of what one tends to find in studies of the police that are much more action research based,

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which I think is just as entirely inadvertent to be avoided,

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because it seems to me the kind of project that we're engaged in would be enriched by more quantitative work simply

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as the kind of action research policing in all kinds of ways can be enriched by all kinds of qualitative work.

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Final point. And again, this has been a this has been a kind of accident.

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But one of the things we've observed reading the drafts of the paper is that when you give people a kind of wider brief to think about policing,

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that what's coming through is not a focus on the police,

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understood as a narrow agency of crime control, law order, maintenance,

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but a kind of recovery of an older conception of policing, which has to do with governance much more broadly understood.

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In other words, policing as as as an institution that is concerned with the administration of people

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in things or with the the welfare and regulation of populations and communities.

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And I, I think all of us as editors think that is a kind of welcome thing, one,

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because it is a reminder of why policing matters and what's at stake when you study it.

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And it's also a reminder about there are all sorts of good reasons why you want to make the study

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of police somewhere close to the centre of multidisciplinary social science in the 21st century.

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And at that point. And I think that's.

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They weren't to take it lying down. Well, I mean, I guess this just I'm just,

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I guess interested in the development of the project in terms of how you approach people from other disciplines.

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What kind of brief do you give to someone who doesn't study police and doesn't, you know,

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hasn't read Manning and Reiner and all that and say, we're doing a book on policing and we'd like you to talk about it.

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I mean, what's the kind of the common thread that they're all working from here? Is there one else that.