1 00:00:00,150 --> 00:00:06,299 We have over the last couple of years tried to redress what I think was a slight gender imbalance in 2 00:00:06,300 --> 00:00:12,540 the registered lecturers in the past and also to try to bring down the average age of those lecturers. 3 00:00:16,140 --> 00:00:19,050 It's a bit insulting, I know, to some of the past lecturers, but there you have it. 4 00:00:19,950 --> 00:00:25,590 And so last year we had a professor, Kelly Hanna Moffitt, from from Canada, from the University of Toronto. 5 00:00:25,770 --> 00:00:31,380 And this year we are very, very pleased to welcome Professor Alison Liebling from the University of Cambridge. 6 00:00:32,220 --> 00:00:37,260 Alison is director of the highly prestigious Institute of Criminology Prisons Research Centre. 7 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:44,760 And most of her work since her PhD on suicide in prisons has focussed on the press and on the role of values, 8 00:00:45,060 --> 00:00:51,270 on the role of safety, trust, fairness in shaping the prison experience and her work. 9 00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:59,310 Her work is like Rogers in that is not only theoretically sophisticated, but it is also empirically extremely robust. 10 00:01:00,150 --> 00:01:05,820 And for those of us in criminology, in both Oxford and Cambridge, this is something we care a great deal about. 11 00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:11,430 So she has carried out a significant programme of research on measuring the quality of prison life, 12 00:01:11,790 --> 00:01:18,330 the effectiveness of various different prison strategies of practices both in public and private sector prisons. 13 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:28,589 And while both Roger and Alison engage in theoretically and empirically robust research as an end in itself, 14 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:34,620 they also care passionately about the impact that their work has on policy and practice. 15 00:01:34,890 --> 00:01:39,750 They care about what we now in the Academy call knowledge, exchange and impact and all of those other things, 16 00:01:40,020 --> 00:01:46,110 dissemination and really making sure that their research makes a difference to public life and to 17 00:01:46,110 --> 00:01:51,300 the lives of those people subject to the criminal process in England and Wales and further afield. 18 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,310 And so it is very fitting that she comes to give this. 19 00:01:58,020 --> 00:02:01,820 Ninth Annual Lecture in honour of Professor Roger Hood. 20 00:02:01,830 --> 00:02:19,660 Sir Allison, please take the stage. All very welcome. Thank you very much, Carolyn, and thank you especially for inviting me. 21 00:02:19,690 --> 00:02:26,980 I'm honoured to be here. So thank you to you and also to the Oxford Centre of Criminology for inviting me. 22 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,010 And I'm delighted to be speaking in honour of Professor Roger Hurd. 23 00:02:31,030 --> 00:02:36,910 Of course, I feel like I know him very well as a parts of crossed in so many ways. 24 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:43,540 He's been encouraging and supportive to me, as well as an exemplar of the criminological project. 25 00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:47,920 We've hung out together at exhibitions of Aboriginal art. 26 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:54,280 But I thought I'd look him up anyway. In preparing for today, just in case there was anything I didn't know. 27 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,230 And there it was. King. I quit school five ways. 28 00:02:59,530 --> 00:03:04,810 Roger Hood is a Brummie or at least he's a temporary and honorary from. 29 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:08,020 That's an important stage in his life that makes us practically family. 30 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:12,690 And I've said he can tell me on your own will we'll discuss the fine detail. 31 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:19,749 But anyway, you all know his immense contribution to criminology is without doubt. 32 00:03:19,750 --> 00:03:29,020 It's beautifully reviewed in the 23 volume by Lucio Zegna and Andrew Ashworth, and of course he's done much and continues to do much since. 33 00:03:29,590 --> 00:03:37,270 So I can only hope to share his energy and passion if I reach his in some ways at least enviable stage of life. 34 00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:42,400 The other person I want to mention, Carolyn's already raised. 35 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,920 His name is my fellow Roger Hurd, lecturer Niels Christie, who spoke here in 2010. 36 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:54,580 I was among the audience and this is such a loss for criminology and for his family and friends. 37 00:03:55,420 --> 00:04:02,170 He would have appreciated my topic this evening, I think, as I hope Roger will, which is the problem of trust. 38 00:04:02,980 --> 00:04:07,630 I also raised matters of the tariff, dangerousness and risk, 39 00:04:07,990 --> 00:04:12,250 and I've been digging out some of the important things that I have to say on those subjects. 40 00:04:13,030 --> 00:04:21,700 This evening I'm going to outline some of the key findings from the last may not be the last the last of three humanistic studies pursuing 41 00:04:21,700 --> 00:04:28,300 a series of complex developments that have taken place in the high security estate or in high security prisons over a number of years, 42 00:04:28,780 --> 00:04:32,440 including the changing role of faith identities. 43 00:04:32,950 --> 00:04:38,680 A transformed prisoner hierarchy. Longer and more indeterminate sentences. 44 00:04:39,250 --> 00:04:46,180 Changing relationships in prison and increased risks of radicalisation and extremism among prisoners. 45 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:53,350 The implications of these studies extend way beyond the high security state into prisons and also into the community. 46 00:04:54,430 --> 00:05:00,850 I also want to talk about aspects of the methodology and what I'm calling person centred social science. 47 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:08,920 We've not written this project up yet. We have written a detailed summary and we've just agreed the outline for a book. 48 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:16,990 I'll talk about who we are in a minute. And so the book is going to be called Prisons and the Problem of Trust. 49 00:05:17,170 --> 00:05:27,400 And I'll explain why it's related to this book in a minute. And last time I spoke here in Oxford, it was at an All Souls seminar. 50 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,520 And Stephen Well remembers and others might. 51 00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:37,390 I was made quite more to, as I call it, I'm in a considerable state of distress about what I was finding there. 52 00:05:37,930 --> 00:05:46,900 So this evening is the story of what happened next and how studying trust in these unlikely places has renewed my sense of hope. 53 00:05:48,490 --> 00:05:52,210 So I want to start and end my lecture with people saying things. 54 00:05:52,690 --> 00:05:58,840 So here are some relevant words taken from my fieldwork notebooks that take us into our topic nicely. 55 00:06:00,010 --> 00:06:05,020 How are you going to serve your 35 year sentence? Chaplaincy is coming under pressure. 56 00:06:05,140 --> 00:06:08,440 How can we demonstrate the positive role of faith in people's lives? 57 00:06:09,310 --> 00:06:14,110 We're not here to change you. We're here to be alongside you to show that you're valuable. 58 00:06:15,250 --> 00:06:18,670 If three people start writing together, something sinister is going on. 59 00:06:19,810 --> 00:06:27,730 Staff are confident in dealing with prisoner power. But when mass behind a veneer of religion dealing with it as religion is playing into their hands, 60 00:06:28,690 --> 00:06:31,750 the prison community is not one that understands the role and place of faith. 61 00:06:32,620 --> 00:06:36,520 And the next one is from one of our Home Office steering group members. 62 00:06:36,850 --> 00:06:42,400 When we described how we were going to carry out the research they'd commissioned, isn't that really scary? 63 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:51,400 We tried to keep it equal where the strongest group are, the white shirt, the biggest risk to security is complacency. 64 00:06:52,210 --> 00:06:56,350 To not be trusted is a form of violence. What are we going to do now? 65 00:06:56,500 --> 00:07:03,250 Now you've gone. This was from a prisoner at Whitemoor when our fieldwork ended in what I called White War, too. 66 00:07:04,450 --> 00:07:09,130 So let me start near the beginning. And first, some scenes setting the title of our. 67 00:07:09,190 --> 00:07:12,400 Cloud book is linked explicitly to an important predecessor. 68 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:19,510 Richard Sparks, Tony Bottoms and will have studied two contrasting high security prisons closely in the late 1980s. 69 00:07:19,810 --> 00:07:22,960 One of them was long lost it. This is also our what about prisons? 70 00:07:23,590 --> 00:07:25,870 They describe two very different models of order, 71 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,660 attracting different degrees of ascent among prisoners and giving rise to distinct challenges and risks. 72 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:37,990 I want to suggest that forms of order and degrees or varieties of trust are closely related. 73 00:07:38,650 --> 00:07:44,920 One of our headline findings is that we've also found very different forms of order in each of the study. 74 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,120 So different sorts of relationships, different approaches to the rules, 75 00:07:49,540 --> 00:07:55,550 a different mood and ethos and different chances of progression out of category. 76 00:07:56,350 --> 00:08:00,370 What's different in our study is the focus on trust in particular, 77 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:07,059 and the prominent role of race, religion and risk thinking in the new post-9-11 world. 78 00:08:07,060 --> 00:08:15,790 We might say using a combination of person centred social science, a priest of inquiry and ethnography like measurement. 79 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:22,720 We've been able to describe fundamental differences in the moral climates of apparently similar high security prisons, 80 00:08:23,170 --> 00:08:27,040 which lead to significantly different levels of anger and alienation. 81 00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:37,090 What we're calling political charge and which shape or make possible which aspects of faith are expressed expressed by prisoners in each environment. 82 00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:48,910 Both methodology and innovative way of recontextualizing the problem, which we've described as the problem of risk recognition and the moral self. 83 00:08:49,510 --> 00:08:52,060 We've redefined it as a problem of trust, 84 00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:58,060 have opened the way for closer and more meaningful dialogue with participants as well as more accurate measurement. 85 00:08:58,630 --> 00:09:06,250 So we've been able to describe and capture empirically differences between what we might call disabling environments that 86 00:09:06,250 --> 00:09:14,380 damage wellbeing and character and enabling environments that support human growth or flourishing and the reduction of risk. 87 00:09:15,670 --> 00:09:24,190 One of the innovations in our study has been to include expertise in religious studies and also in hip hop, rap and cultural studies in the team. 88 00:09:24,310 --> 00:09:25,480 I'll say more in a minute. 89 00:09:26,620 --> 00:09:35,170 For me, deciding to go back into this territory for a second time via a trust was both a transformative and a communicative decision. 90 00:09:35,740 --> 00:09:39,820 The very word attracted trust, openness and interest. 91 00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:47,680 It seemed to say to prisoners and to some staff that we were people with imagination, moral energy and depth. 92 00:09:48,130 --> 00:09:51,190 We were interested in possibilities and a continuum. 93 00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:54,550 So what lay at the other end of the obsession with risk? 94 00:09:55,210 --> 00:09:59,950 There was hope in trust. And prisoners understood that and made us feel welcome. 95 00:10:01,210 --> 00:10:05,470 So the project I'm going to talk about mainly tonight in this rather long journey 96 00:10:06,010 --> 00:10:10,900 is a two year study which we've just finished locating trust in a climate of fear, 97 00:10:11,140 --> 00:10:15,670 religion, moral status, prison of leadership and risk in maximum security prisons. 98 00:10:16,450 --> 00:10:22,870 It was funded by the SLC Transforming Social Science Scheme, which means we're supposed to transform social science by last week. 99 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:28,300 And this was a competitive call intended to support groundbreaking, high risk research. 100 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:33,190 I carried out this project with my colleagues, Ruth, who I've just spotted with Armstrong, 101 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:39,610 Ryan Williams and Richard Bramwell, and we're currently collaborating energetically on the analysis and writing. 102 00:10:39,940 --> 00:10:44,260 The choice of research team has been very important in this work and I'll come back to it. 103 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:54,220 But first, how did we come to focus on trust and why did we place trust of all concepts at the heart of a project in such an unlikely place? 104 00:10:54,850 --> 00:10:58,420 As one of the prison psychologists at one of our prisons said to us, 105 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:06,490 Some people might think it's a bit naive to come into a high security prison to study trust, but the answer is cumulative. 106 00:11:06,850 --> 00:11:12,070 Our understanding draws on three separate studies carried out between 1998 and the present. 107 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,940 The first, which was on staff prisoner relationships at Whitemoor, 108 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:24,340 was an exploratory study of the way prison officers used power through relationships in what was at the time a fairly professional, legitimate prison. 109 00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:29,500 One of the ingredients of relationships which we observed at the time was trust. 110 00:11:29,950 --> 00:11:37,960 So despite it being a high security prison, a sort of credit is built up between staff and prisoners, which oils the flow of prison life. 111 00:11:38,740 --> 00:11:43,150 We wrote about this in a qualitative way in that first study, but we didn't measure it. 112 00:11:43,660 --> 00:11:50,350 We knew it was there and that a guarded form of trust was doing some work in relation to legitimacy and order, 113 00:11:50,590 --> 00:11:53,710 although we didn't use the language of legitimacy at the time either. 114 00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:59,020 But that project led to the work I've done with others subsequently on 115 00:11:59,020 --> 00:12:03,610 conceptualising and measuring the moral and relational quality of life in prison. 116 00:12:03,940 --> 00:12:08,830 So in other words, the development of a set of essentially qualitative measures of the. 117 00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:10,230 Social climate in prisons, 118 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:17,460 which gives us very good data and very good understanding of what's going on in individual prisons and wings within those prisons. 119 00:12:18,210 --> 00:12:21,600 We've incorporated this measurement component in every project since, 120 00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:27,690 but alongside creative and qualitative methods, including what we call Cambridge Dialogue, 121 00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:36,160 which is regular afternoon length chats with a regular group of prisoners loosely organised around key themes with relevant literature. 122 00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:45,480 What matters here is that by the time of the second study in White Moor, which was commissioned by the Chief Scientific Officer 12 years later, 123 00:12:46,020 --> 00:12:53,070 under intense political concern about the risks of extremism and radicalisation in prison, trust had all but disappeared. 124 00:12:54,850 --> 00:12:58,210 This had serious consequences for staff prisoners. 125 00:12:58,870 --> 00:13:05,550 We resisted studying radicalisation directly. This was the request as it felt like the wrong starting point. 126 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:13,719 The term is loaded and full of assumptions. So I offered to repeat the first study of staff prisoner relationships in order to explore 127 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,460 in a neutral but methodologically careful way as possible what was going on in the prison. 128 00:13:19,630 --> 00:13:25,660 And we describe the prison we returned to in 2009 ten as paralysed by distrust. 129 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:32,020 The peacefulness of observing and describing that transformation became, for me, unfinished business. 130 00:13:32,650 --> 00:13:37,690 The explanation for the decline was the combined effects of a post-9-11 climate, 131 00:13:38,290 --> 00:13:41,740 the imprisonment of offenders convicted of offences against the Terrorism Act, 132 00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:49,000 changes to sentencing and to the population being sentenced, leading to much longer sentences and very complex routes out. 133 00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:55,030 And a new people logical approach to prison management, which created distance between managers and the wings. 134 00:13:56,740 --> 00:14:02,860 Staff were uncomfortable with a new population who were now 40% Muslim and 55% black. 135 00:14:02,860 --> 00:14:07,480 A mixed race. This compared to so few Muslim prisoners, they weren't counted. 136 00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:11,980 I'm 25% black and mixed race 12 years earlier. 137 00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:17,350 Half this population of Muslim prisoners had converted to Islam in prison. 138 00:14:18,820 --> 00:14:23,980 Of course, one of the difficulties with trust in a high security prison is that they can be too much of it. 139 00:14:24,250 --> 00:14:32,290 As we've seen in some private prisons where staff are naive, leading to dangerous gains in prisoner power under policing and escapes. 140 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:38,110 So this is the problem of trust. It arises most acutely in a high security prison. 141 00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:43,210 It has to be intelligently placed. Without it, prisons don't work. 142 00:14:43,930 --> 00:14:51,339 So for the third study, the current study, we applied for funding to carry out a 20 design project exploring the relationship 143 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:54,970 between moral and organisational aspects of the prison's environment, 144 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:02,049 including staff, prisoner relationships and levels of what we called intelligent trust and political charge, 145 00:15:02,050 --> 00:15:05,710 or anger and alienation among prisoners in the high security state. 146 00:15:06,070 --> 00:15:10,180 And I'll explain the rationale for this precise framing of the question in the moment. 147 00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:16,360 It's taken three detailed studies to work out what the right question is, 148 00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:20,890 to assemble the right team, and to develop the right methodology for the task. 149 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,569 So the return study to White More found in the language of a recently published article 150 00:15:28,570 --> 00:15:34,600 on this theme that the stock culture had changed from heavy present to heavy upset. 151 00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:37,570 In other words, stuff had moved away from prisoners, 152 00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:44,380 and their orientation towards them was more about security and control than personal development or humanity. 153 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,380 There'd been a kind of narrowing or missed recognition of the changing prisoner community. 154 00:15:51,190 --> 00:15:54,040 In the words of Martin Buber, the prison staff, 155 00:15:54,310 --> 00:16:01,510 as well as the prison service organisation had shifted from either how to I ate relations with prisoners. 156 00:16:02,170 --> 00:16:07,810 Prisoners were regarded as experienced objects rather than experiencing subjects. 157 00:16:08,890 --> 00:16:18,340 So why more to have characteristics of both a new penal logical and a failing state prison, a term I should return to at the time we went back to it, 158 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:25,000 including a relative absence of management presence, officer alienation of retreat and for prisoners, 159 00:16:25,150 --> 00:16:30,040 a lack of purpose, safety, fairness or opportunities for growth and meaning. 160 00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:36,879 There were new and unexplored moral and religious challenges in the prison, and because of heavy security, 161 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:47,300 intelligence activity and the links between this and risk or progress out, amongst other things, there was a new mood that regarded talk as dangerous. 162 00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:54,850 The prison was more difficult to penetrate for us as researchers, and power was being fought over by prisoners, 163 00:16:55,060 --> 00:17:02,560 some of whom were converting to Islam because it was both appealing and poorly understood and therefore its practices were difficult to police. 164 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:12,220 There were high levels of fear and distance in the prison. We used actual analysis of the struggle for recognition to describe what we saw going on. 165 00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:19,540 Staff no longer knew or recognised their prisoners, but experienced them as dangerous and unfathomable. 166 00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:26,590 This was understandable, but it was damaging. There's, of course, much more to say on this. 167 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,280 So for a good bedtime read, here is where you find the full account. 168 00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:33,910 And now I'm going to move on from that study. 169 00:17:35,230 --> 00:17:42,700 Far from upholding social order, this form of imprisonment was damaging character and the civil disposition, and it was generating anger. 170 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:46,090 And I believe this made it relevant to the risk of extremism. 171 00:17:46,210 --> 00:17:53,800 After all, the study was uncomfortable to conduct because even we felt that somehow we were 172 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,750 carrying risk thinking into the prison in a way that we happened to 12 years earlier. 173 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,780 I think when I talk about how uncomfortable the study made me, 174 00:18:01,780 --> 00:18:10,930 this was why it left me uncomfortable that there were some prisoners we never managed to approach, even after a year of intensive fieldwork. 175 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,840 This has never happened to me in my research life before, 176 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:21,270 and it was because we were like the staff detecting distancing looks from some prisoners on some wings. 177 00:18:21,550 --> 00:18:29,230 We were never sure how far they were real. So that return study was deeply disturbing. 178 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,710 This was a truly difficult topic. It was difficult conceptually, empirically and emotionally. 179 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:44,020 I was not sure at the time how much I wanted to or thought I had sufficient skill, resilience or courage to carry on. 180 00:18:45,670 --> 00:18:50,700 And we didn't include this model in our report because we weren't studying radicalisation. 181 00:18:51,310 --> 00:18:54,940 We conducted the research as if the word radicalisation didn't exist, 182 00:18:55,330 --> 00:19:00,040 but we drew it afterwards for thinking purposes based on what prisoners were saying. 183 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:07,810 So here we are, drawing on life course criminology following maqam to show how sequences of experiences might add up in 184 00:19:07,810 --> 00:19:13,210 a few minutes to the way to increase the risk of the causes and possible turning points are everywhere, 185 00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:18,850 including in certain types of prison climate. But almost always the story starts earlier than this. 186 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,310 So our report focussed on what we directly observed and what prisoners and staff described. 187 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:31,630 That was a new and complex set of social relationships among prisoners, including conversion to Islam. 188 00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:38,500 Some coercion by groups of Muslim prisoners. Disputes between prisoners over what kind of food could be cooked in the kitchens. 189 00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:45,040 And a power vacuum left by nervous staff who were very concerned about accusations of religious discrimination. 190 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:51,730 We also describe a very poor understanding of Islam, the confounding of religious practice with radicalisation, 191 00:19:52,180 --> 00:19:58,479 and a dangerously austere environment in which access to meaningful activities, relationships and means progress. 192 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,730 When newly restricted prisoners were serving new, long and indeterminate sentences, 193 00:20:03,730 --> 00:20:08,980 often for gang or drug related crimes or newly used joint enterprise charges. 194 00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:16,510 So they weren't always expecting these sentences, and they were expressing very strong feelings of illegitimacy and shock at the predicament. 195 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:22,090 The Chaplaincy Department, which had been the heart and soul of the prison and the hive of active. 196 00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:26,690 During our first study where we went for tea and chat, 197 00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:37,850 I was completely depleted and demoralised in the face of staff absences and also a change in power and resources away from, 198 00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:44,630 as they saw it, traditional Christian provision. The managing chaplain had disappeared from the prison senior management team, 199 00:20:45,140 --> 00:20:52,850 and this was at a time when faith identities were becoming significant shapers of both the flow of power and the route to meaning in the prison. 200 00:20:54,140 --> 00:20:58,220 Ordinary Muslim prisoners felt heavily scrutinised and discriminated against, 201 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,640 and we certainly felt that aspects of the prison's management and culture, 202 00:21:01,970 --> 00:21:07,370 but also a political climate committed to depriving long term prisoners of meaningful activities or hope, 203 00:21:07,790 --> 00:21:11,120 was increasing rather than decreasing the risks of radicalisation. 204 00:21:11,690 --> 00:21:18,380 Prisoners were coming in angry and in shock and then they were finding it difficult to navigate their way through long and bleak sentences. 205 00:21:18,830 --> 00:21:25,670 Staff were not helping them or getting to know them well enough and so were adding to these feelings of alienation, discrimination and injustice. 206 00:21:27,020 --> 00:21:32,179 So a key message from the White Moor to study was that empirical differences in 207 00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:36,500 levels of trust in prison have major consequences for life in those prisons. 208 00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:44,329 It looked as if some aspects of the treatment of prisoners might be contributing either to the risk of violence or to extremism, 209 00:21:44,330 --> 00:21:51,590 rather than reducing either. There were certainly risks that overreactive security reporting could alienate those very prisoners 210 00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:56,200 who were more knowledgeable and pro-social about Islam or who were peacekeepers on the wing. 211 00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:03,380 A lack of trust between security departments and chaplains or security departments of education staff was disabling. 212 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,860 Prisoners were using the new no go area faith practices to challenge staff power. 213 00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:17,270 So we ended that report with a reference to a Nora O'Neill's concept of intelligent trust. 214 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:24,830 As she put it, failing to trust trustworthy is costly, not just in financial terms, but also in terms of outcomes. 215 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,889 She talks mainly about the lack of trust in organisations and how this undermines trustworthiness. 216 00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:32,000 She just took it to audit. 217 00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:40,340 But her argument applies at an individual level when she says those who find their trustworthiness wrongly questioned may feel undermined, 218 00:22:40,490 --> 00:22:44,390 even insulted and ultimately less inclined to be trustworthy. 219 00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:49,910 So the central practical aim in placing and refusing trust is to do so well. 220 00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:53,900 That is, to align the policing of trust with trustworthiness. 221 00:22:54,740 --> 00:22:59,120 So our version of her question is how can prison staff and senior managers, 222 00:22:59,450 --> 00:23:07,280 the authorities or any of us place trust intelligently in a climate of fear and risk where distrust grows? 223 00:23:07,580 --> 00:23:16,280 And what difference does it make when it's flowing? Could the stretching of risk thinking to include trust building transform practice in this 224 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,140 very difficult area of work and make risk assessments more accurate or constructive? 225 00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:25,010 So this question has become the foundation of our current study. 226 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,080 No surprises. This was a situation in need of appreciative inquiry. 227 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:39,030 We needed to build trust with our participants to get to know people as they are, to find better possibilities and avenues for dialogue. 228 00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:42,480 So just arriving at an authentic, 229 00:23:42,690 --> 00:23:48,930 balanced and generative account of life in a high security prison is much harder than it sounds and is getting harder. 230 00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:57,180 Appreciative Inquiry adds to our chances of achieving this through, amongst other things, the use of the unconditional positive question. 231 00:23:57,810 --> 00:24:05,520 So we might start hour long interviews with the question. Tell me about an aspect of yourself and your life that you're most proud of. 232 00:24:06,420 --> 00:24:11,580 This sets the agenda. Prisoners respond with surprise and engagement to this question. 233 00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:17,850 They hear the message. This is about who they are and not how they've been socially constructed by others. 234 00:24:18,570 --> 00:24:25,470 Appreciative Inquiry doesn't ignore or neglect the worst aspects of experience, but it pays attention to the full range of experience. 235 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:33,870 It tries to identify its positive core and the values or ultimate concerns underlying experience. 236 00:24:34,610 --> 00:24:42,450 One of the things that's very powerful about it is that the language of the inquiry has important outcomes embedded in it, 237 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,720 so it helps to build grounded generative theory. 238 00:24:45,810 --> 00:24:53,370 If we're talking about trust and how it grows and what it does, we're already getting into how to make this world better. 239 00:24:53,640 --> 00:25:00,060 So it also helps to create a humanistic and intimate research account as well as to get at the full account. 240 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:08,850 So following some difficult politics about our white study, which opened my eyes to the world above, 241 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,710 knows where competing orientations to terror shape our world. 242 00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:20,520 This also gave me some time to reflect while the report was being fought over, several things happened at this time. 243 00:25:21,450 --> 00:25:26,040 So some of you in this room will remember I was talking about the project to anyone who would 244 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,810 listen to me at the time and still trying to make sense of these uncomfortable findings. 245 00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:40,500 Toni Bottoms, who was one as always, agreed to attend one of the strangest meetings ever held about the research at the Home Office. 246 00:25:40,530 --> 00:25:47,770 He came as my witness, and Jason Moore, who was a former long term prisoner himself, understood much of what we were trying to describe. 247 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,560 Monica lawyer, who is a former high security prison psychologist. 248 00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:58,440 She was a member of our steering group, recognised the description as well as the politics and helped me to hold my courage. 249 00:25:58,890 --> 00:26:04,800 There were lots of others. Then a conversation in our institute coffee room with Ruth Armstrong, 250 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,440 who was finishing her Ph.D. at the time on Texan and prisoners released into faith based communities. 251 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:19,410 This conversation about faith and its new manifestations excited both of us and quickly turned into a small gathering of theologians, 252 00:26:19,530 --> 00:26:24,700 present chaplains and scholars talking. We met three or four times a year. 253 00:26:25,020 --> 00:26:31,680 We called ourselves first, I think it was the what more project dialogue group than it was the Interfaith Dialogue Group, not just the dialogue group. 254 00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:39,300 And this group that's now grown to include imams, people from counterterrorism and security groups, prison governors, charities. 255 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:46,350 It was out of this group and my conversations with Ruth that the trust project was arose. 256 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:56,130 So just before Christmas 2012, the SLC put out this call for transformative social science proposals, and Ruth had the energy for both of us. 257 00:26:56,610 --> 00:27:02,130 She, by this time, roped in Brian Williams, who was a divinity scholar who'd never set foot in a prison. 258 00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:06,510 And we were all the vibes felt right. 259 00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:14,910 We were somehow convinced that looking for trust, if we could find something in this new world of the pursuit of security, would get us somewhere. 260 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,990 We team at three are a bit like a radicalised network. 261 00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:21,910 So we recruited Richard, the fourth member. 262 00:27:21,930 --> 00:27:27,420 Once we secured the grant, Richard had never set foot in a prison either, but he was an ethnographer of RAF. 263 00:27:28,110 --> 00:27:33,030 I needed people whose reach went further than mine in precisely these directions. 264 00:27:34,020 --> 00:27:39,080 We carried out two prisons research, sent a team exercise which we call and QPR plus in full some. 265 00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:45,000 The week before I had to do this strange pitch to Piers final stage play at the SLC 266 00:27:45,570 --> 00:27:50,400 and this is an intense cultural diagnosis of a prison using all our best skills. 267 00:27:50,670 --> 00:27:53,190 So we were in from Sutton, which was a high security prison. 268 00:27:53,760 --> 00:28:01,170 We saw such a mixture of active management engagement and recognition of the complex prisoner dynamics. 269 00:28:01,530 --> 00:28:04,770 But we also saw lots of risk and risk thinking. 270 00:28:05,370 --> 00:28:12,900 We disrupt and segregate that prevent language. We've got a real strong grip on the power base or this will soon be an Islamic jail. 271 00:28:14,010 --> 00:28:18,720 Simply describing the situation and making sense of it was going to be our main task. 272 00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:25,990 So because it was not designed into the two whitemoor studies to be longitudinal side our. 273 00:28:26,370 --> 00:28:29,490 But precisely what had changed and why was speculative. 274 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:33,779 It had been difficult to reach some of the more influential leaders in the prison, 275 00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:38,610 as well as to talk meaningfully about distinctions between varieties of Islam with prisoners. 276 00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:47,250 There were so many other problems in the prison, but facing long term prisoners in general survival, meaning safety and progression. 277 00:28:48,330 --> 00:28:52,740 We needed to move from longitudinal thinking to cross-sectional exploration. 278 00:28:53,100 --> 00:29:02,250 So was it possible to find two high security prisons above the low trust threshold we found at Whitemoor and see whether things were different? 279 00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:06,479 So we decided on two prisons in order to sharpen the analysis, 280 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:12,660 and we chose these prisons very carefully and we took lots of advice on where high levels of trust might be found. 281 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:20,480 Basically up north or in the Midlands. So we, we full Sutton was one of them. 282 00:29:20,490 --> 00:29:25,320 That's in York, my old home. And Frankland is in Durham, another favourite place of mine. 283 00:29:25,650 --> 00:29:32,190 And Frankland in particular appealed because the chaplaincy team had responded very enthusiastically to the presentations on I Want More Study, 284 00:29:32,790 --> 00:29:37,500 and one of its members led a prison band which consisted of attacked prisoner, 285 00:29:38,430 --> 00:29:44,940 a prisoner convicted of a terrorist offence, a muslim Catholic and in prison convert to Islam and a Christian. 286 00:29:45,450 --> 00:29:50,939 And we thought this was a good sign for something that also invited us to visit following a research presentation. 287 00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:52,860 And they were very eager to host the research. 288 00:29:53,580 --> 00:30:00,480 So the four of us spent much of the next year trekking up and down to York and then Durham spending about five months in each prison. 289 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,870 We took our time getting to know people informally before we embarked on formal research activity. 290 00:30:07,530 --> 00:30:12,180 Amazingly, some of the prisoners we found in Frankland had been in the Whitemoor study, 291 00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:16,890 and they campaigned for dialogue because they liked the approach and the opportunity. 292 00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:20,670 And so that was it. We were welcomed by people we already knew. 293 00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:24,690 I said the team was an important part of the methodology. 294 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:33,570 It was really important to combine expertise in prison sociology and ethnography like measurement with theology and religion, 295 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:39,420 trust, religion, risk, relationships, networks, hip hop, black culture, 296 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:47,160 life post-release and faith based provision that that's what you need to understand a high security prison these days. 297 00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:52,710 We were two female and two male members. One was mixed race, one was Canadian. 298 00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:56,250 We tried to be as varied as possible. 299 00:30:56,730 --> 00:31:02,310 One of the team led a rap course for eight prisoners, which involved a critical analysis of rap poetry, 300 00:31:02,670 --> 00:31:08,700 oral performances and discussions of prisoners own work, as well as discussions of scholarly work on black British culture. 301 00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:17,370 This was very well received and offered prisoners an opportunity to be authentic and also critical as well as self-reflective on their own terms. 302 00:31:18,540 --> 00:31:26,250 And in an accident of enthusiasm, we got distracted into a third prison, long lot in between the field work in the main sites. 303 00:31:26,460 --> 00:31:30,000 So we used the project revised version of the questionnaire when we did that. 304 00:31:30,090 --> 00:31:37,410 So basically we have data from three prisons, but more of the qualitative data from Folsom and Franklin. 305 00:31:39,030 --> 00:31:46,800 So our overall aim is authentic description to show things as they are in a highly complex context. 306 00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:54,420 And this is achieved through careful methods and the determination to encounter in an eyeball manner, 307 00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:58,020 hold people as they are, but attentiveness to detail. 308 00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:02,670 So throughout the project we've been determined to relate to prisoners as well. 309 00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:08,130 Not it as a person, not a muslim or a danger or whatever. 310 00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:16,260 So as experiencing subjects, not experienced objects, this is really difficult in an environment hardened into a world of it. 311 00:32:17,070 --> 00:32:20,520 So our approach is not controlling, it's yielding. 312 00:32:20,670 --> 00:32:28,760 And I love this quote at the end What makes a person human is building with others a common world speech with meaning. 313 00:32:28,770 --> 00:32:31,290 Because it feels like that's what we've been trying to do. 314 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:38,610 But we've had to work against working assumptions and frameworks, including about what questions to ask. 315 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,280 You can't ask prisoners about who they trust or how dangerous some prisoners might be. 316 00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:49,830 You don't want to be on your own with any of those prisoners who are on a No. 1 to 1 contact, you wouldn't emerge alive. 317 00:32:50,550 --> 00:32:56,670 It was actually very important for us to be on our own with prisoners who were on a 1 to 1 contact to find out who they were. 318 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:05,850 So we were exploring what goes on in each prison from the perspective of staff and all for prisoners, asking Where is trust found and how is it built? 319 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:12,120 What does it do? What does in prison conversion to Islam mean and under what circumstances does it occur? 320 00:33:12,780 --> 00:33:17,130 When is a religious conversation theological rather than radicalise it? 321 00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:21,360 Where do extreme urges to violence or hatred of the state come from? 322 00:33:21,930 --> 00:33:25,530 Are these political, religious or internal psychological feelings? 323 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,490 And more generally, but just as important, how do people find themselves in high security, 324 00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:36,260 on internal, high risk procedures being monitored by the counter-terrorism agency? 325 00:33:36,650 --> 00:33:42,800 And what's their experience of it? How do they get out or downgraded when their riskiness subsides? 326 00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:47,450 Are some aspects of their dangerousness socially or procedurally constructed? 327 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:54,440 And then how are all these practices and experiences linked to perceptions of legitimacy and feelings of political charge? 328 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,080 So I mentioned and couple this is our measuring the quality of prison life survey. 329 00:34:00,260 --> 00:34:07,550 I do like to measure things, but to do it slowly and carefully keeping the measures as close to the person as possible. 330 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,650 So we call our approach ethnography. 331 00:34:09,650 --> 00:34:15,680 That measurement, we're looking for what matters most to prisoners and staff, and then we try to find it and talk about it. 332 00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:23,810 So our approach involves a lot of just being there, hanging about, talking, listening, drinking tea, arranging and leading of groups. 333 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:30,380 And all of this intense exposure is far more organised than it looks and eventually we turn it into measurements. 334 00:34:30,830 --> 00:34:37,430 So the surveys that emerge from this process, precisely because they're deeply grounded in the field, work well empirically. 335 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:43,100 And it means we can identify important distinctions between prisons in areas that matter. 336 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,990 So this is the moral performance of Quality of Life survey and its dimensions. 337 00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:53,300 But this project we have developed three new dimensions. 338 00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:59,240 So they're in italics and asterisk trust, an intelligent trust and political charge. 339 00:35:00,170 --> 00:35:05,600 Just briefly, here are some ways that this kind of data has helped us understand prison differences in the past. 340 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,820 This is a model of variations in suicide and distress in a 12 prison study. 341 00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:19,280 And that means we can explain variations in distress, which in their turn explain suicide rates by levels of safety, 342 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,460 engagement in personal development activities and so on. 343 00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:32,600 So here we would say that suicides in prison are influenced by a kind of trust in the environment, which is all about safety and relationships. 344 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,350 Likewise, from another second person study, 345 00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:43,580 if we're interested in what explains variations in the experience of personal development in prison or the development of potential, 346 00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:50,210 then we find that five key dimensions of prison life matter most humanity stuff, professionalism, 347 00:35:50,570 --> 00:35:56,330 help and assistance organisation and consistency and bureaucratic legitimacy, 348 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:02,180 which is a relatively new and increasingly important dimension which reflects the organisation 349 00:36:02,180 --> 00:36:07,430 and administration of increasingly complex sentences and risk assessment processes. 350 00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:14,810 So prisoners have helped us to grow this dimension. These tend to score lowest, but they also vary the most between prisons. 351 00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:23,300 So we're hoping that our new dimension political charge might operate in the same way acting as a kind of intermediate variable, 352 00:36:23,690 --> 00:36:30,500 not just for the risk of radicalisation, but for any unwanted outcome like suicide or disorder. 353 00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:38,750 So the term political charge was used almost in passing by Mark Howard in his research on prisoner radicalisation. 354 00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:45,500 He found in his comparison of fulsome and new fulsome prisons, drawing on the accounts of prisoners and staff, 355 00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:52,490 but also informed by his analysis of 61 cases of extremist violence that had some form of in prison 356 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:59,150 component in the narrative that radicalisation occurs only under specific conditions of confinement. 357 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:05,930 So he argues in his book The Spectacular View, that there are clashing viewpoints on prisoner radicalisation, 358 00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:13,850 the alarmist position that prisons are incubators for radical Islamic terrorist ideology, the reassurance position. 359 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:17,960 No, they're not. And in fact, Islam contributes to rehabilitation. 360 00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:26,960 And then thirdly, his position and he found that radicalisation occurred in what he calls failed state mismanaged prisons. 361 00:37:27,350 --> 00:37:33,960 These prisons, he said, generate political charge, anger and alienation which can be felt on the yards and landings. 362 00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:39,620 So we're exploring and testing this argument, his hypothesis really quite closely. 363 00:37:40,450 --> 00:37:44,450 And so here's a dimension political charge. 364 00:37:44,930 --> 00:37:52,270 Our attempt to measure it. And we want to see whether it's being generated by different high security prison climates in here. 365 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:59,350 You see if you some of them are self-explanatory. There's a shame and acceptance item in this dimension. 366 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:05,390 They're taken from the defiance literature, which suggests that they're inhibited by feelings of illegitimacy. 367 00:38:05,930 --> 00:38:08,390 The others have been developed from conversations with prisoners, 368 00:38:08,690 --> 00:38:13,640 interview transcripts and a workshop we had with Professor Suzanne Castor, who works in this field. 369 00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:21,290 And we found it has relatively high reliability. We've also explored these ideas in the qualitative interviews, too. 370 00:38:21,590 --> 00:38:25,460 So he is a prisoner convicted of a serious offence of extremist violence. 371 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:37,510 Talking about his trajectory or identity. As with many of our interviewees, anger about racism pre-dates anger about Iraq or Syria or whatever. 372 00:38:38,260 --> 00:38:42,460 He describes having to counter this racism with a racism of my own. 373 00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:48,190 His alienation began on the streets, in school and in the face of police harassment. 374 00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:53,500 The offence he committed makes him look anti-West. But he grew up in London. 375 00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:59,740 He had white friends. He loved school. And he recounted these details at various points in his interviews. 376 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:07,390 And he also talked about his appreciation of the few officers who'd been respectful or even kind to him since his imprisonment. 377 00:39:08,350 --> 00:39:14,800 Race barely appears in accounts of radicalisation or extremist violence, but it's a really important part of the story. 378 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,800 So our four main hypotheses. 379 00:39:19,950 --> 00:39:29,849 These are complex, but I hope they now make sense that some intelligent trust generates constructive faith exploration or spiritual capital, 380 00:39:29,850 --> 00:39:32,940 as well as personal growth, and it lowers risk. 381 00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:42,270 In other words, the forms that faith and faith identities take will be different in a high political charge, low political charge prison, 382 00:39:43,410 --> 00:39:48,870 but high levels of trust characterised at prison and then become extended into staff groups and between departments. 383 00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:51,600 So if we find trust, we find it everywhere. 384 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:58,860 The prisons will differ in the amount of political charge they generate and failed state prisons paralysed by distrust, 385 00:39:59,070 --> 00:40:04,860 generate more political charge and therefore more dangerous power laden faith identities, 386 00:40:05,130 --> 00:40:08,610 as well as stagnation and damage to well-being and character. 387 00:40:09,330 --> 00:40:12,750 And finally, this gets us back into classic prison sociology. 388 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:21,120 But different types of prisoners are esteemed or rise to the top of the prison hierarchy carrying influence in these different kinds of planets. 389 00:40:23,980 --> 00:40:28,330 We collected lots of data. This is what data collected quantitatively. 390 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:34,040 Good samples, high response rate. We probably overdid it and went to some other prisoners too. 391 00:40:35,050 --> 00:40:42,050 This is the qualitative data. We formally interviewed the staff data as well, but this is the prisoner interview data. 392 00:40:42,070 --> 00:40:51,490 So 67 and 40 at Frankland, 42% were black or mixed race, 21% Asian, 32% white. 393 00:40:52,090 --> 00:40:56,380 Half of this sample described themselves or were described by the prison as Muslim, 394 00:40:56,650 --> 00:41:02,680 although this label included individuals who spontaneously explained that this identity was a strategic choice. 395 00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:07,750 You have to be here. There are a few of us and have little ideological or religious meaning. 396 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,490 Some have converted to Islam in prison. One was the opposite. 397 00:41:12,490 --> 00:41:18,910 He kept his distance from the Muslim guys, despite being known by his friends as Muslim because he felt it was holding his progress back. 398 00:41:19,810 --> 00:41:24,850 A quarter of the sample were Christian, 13% were atheist, a handful were Buddhist or Rastafarian. 399 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:33,250 More than half were on Category eight. Most have been convicted of serious crimes of violence involving drugs or gang related violence or murder. 400 00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:41,650 So for certain, for example, eight prisoners were serving that for life sentences and over 20 were serving sentences of over 40 years and so on. 401 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,249 And a disproportionate number had been convicted on joint enterprise charges and were 402 00:41:48,250 --> 00:41:52,210 appealing against their conviction on the grounds that their involvement had been personal. 403 00:41:53,140 --> 00:41:57,400 Their sentences were very long and several were facing tariffs of 35 years or more. 404 00:41:58,090 --> 00:42:06,040 Two of these were serving natural life sentences. Lots of our group were many years beyond their tariff and still category eight. 405 00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:13,990 Others were early stages in their very long sentences. The sample included ten prisoners who've been charged with offences against the Terrorism Act. 406 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,430 A small number of whom had carried out extreme acts of violence. 407 00:42:18,670 --> 00:42:22,120 But most of this number, like the general population of tracked offenders, 408 00:42:22,570 --> 00:42:27,250 have been charged with planning or supporting terrorist activity rather than carrying out. 409 00:42:28,210 --> 00:42:33,610 Others in the sample were regarded as at risk of radicalisation in the prison and were being monitored 410 00:42:33,850 --> 00:42:38,680 either at the time of the interview or in the recent past by the Prison Systems Risk Management Procedure. 411 00:42:39,820 --> 00:42:44,560 One had carried out an act of violence in prison against a Christian prisoner in the name of Islam, 412 00:42:45,130 --> 00:42:51,160 and others had been involved in what was self-consciously Muslim non-Muslim conflicts between certain groups of prisoners. 413 00:42:52,780 --> 00:43:00,180 Many of our interviewees were members of our dialogue group who met with us regularly or of the class led by one of our research team. 414 00:43:00,190 --> 00:43:02,740 And as I said, some have been interviewed in previous projects. 415 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:08,710 So overall, they engaged with us deeply and authentically and were willing and appreciative participants. 416 00:43:09,310 --> 00:43:13,210 The interviews lasted several hours and were often completed in more than one sitting. 417 00:43:13,690 --> 00:43:20,890 They were recorded and transcribed. Some had to take place in segregation units in closed conditions through Perspex, 418 00:43:21,220 --> 00:43:25,450 but most took place in private offices, in education workshops or on the wings. 419 00:43:26,140 --> 00:43:29,920 They vary slightly, but generally covered details of the sentence. 420 00:43:30,220 --> 00:43:32,020 Prison experience and quality of life. 421 00:43:32,620 --> 00:43:41,140 Personal background including what your most proud of faith, ideology and religious practices contained progress and psychological survival, 422 00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:45,850 trust relationships and the prison identity and moral character. 423 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:50,590 Informal conversations often continued on the wings or on revisits to the prison, 424 00:43:50,980 --> 00:43:54,450 and prisoners also submitted written accounts, poetry, essays and games. 425 00:43:54,460 --> 00:43:56,380 Additional materials are still writing us letters. 426 00:43:56,710 --> 00:44:05,380 And in one case, one of the prisoners who was on no 1 to 1 contact wrote throughout the study and then performed at the end around for us, 427 00:44:05,380 --> 00:44:11,380 which was all about our project, and it was called to us to trust and sums it up beautifully. 428 00:44:14,860 --> 00:44:19,179 So these are the results, and this will mean more to me than to you. 429 00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:22,300 But really all you have to see is that there's lots of yellow scattered about. 430 00:44:22,330 --> 00:44:27,110 These are three the three prisons in something long lot in which we were diverted to 431 00:44:27,110 --> 00:44:33,940 in the Middle and England and basically for something looked a bit like want more to. 432 00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:40,000 So very low scores on harmony and professionalism dimensions but higher schools on 433 00:44:40,010 --> 00:44:46,030 security dimensions long lasting and Frankland felt out of school very differently, 434 00:44:46,210 --> 00:44:53,470 having lighter and more individualised climates and significantly higher schools on relational and care dimensions. 435 00:44:53,770 --> 00:45:01,980 So when we first saw the results, we divided the prisons into two categories what was always in my head, even if it's not on the slide. 436 00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:09,520 So for something the white more to our new analogical characterised by vigilant security, the meeting of targets, 437 00:45:09,730 --> 00:45:14,590 proactive rule following and a form of professionalism that relates me to risk management. 438 00:45:15,460 --> 00:45:23,170 The other two, Martin and Frankland of Old Philological or Old School better characterised by different form of professionalism. 439 00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:27,930 Relating to the development or progress of prisoners and higher levels of engagement. 440 00:45:28,110 --> 00:45:34,410 It's more complicated than that, but that's roughly it. So stuff in these prisons have different narratives about prisoners. 441 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,210 They use more discretion. They carried some risk or managed risk through trust. 442 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:44,790 So prisoners in full something said you feel like a statistic in Franklin, they said you feel like a person. 443 00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:49,510 The composition and geographical location of each prison was distinctive and that 444 00:45:49,530 --> 00:45:53,850 impacted on the orientation of staff and their perceived levels of power and control. 445 00:45:54,630 --> 00:46:04,950 The four prisons are each operating to a distinct underlying model or form of order underneath, which is a distinctive construction of dangerousness. 446 00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:09,209 So at Full Sutton staff knew where dangerousness lay. 447 00:46:09,210 --> 00:46:13,350 They had a directed vision of dangerousness, but frankly, it was more diffuse. 448 00:46:13,590 --> 00:46:18,030 There were questions asked, were very different approaches to social control. 449 00:46:18,990 --> 00:46:25,410 So at Frankland, we even saw dialogue as a major mode of social control in adjudications, 450 00:46:25,470 --> 00:46:32,100 and that governors adjudicating on prisoners would say, Now apologise to your officer, let's build this relationship back. 451 00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:35,340 It was a it was a very different form of social control. 452 00:46:37,050 --> 00:46:42,060 Interestingly, expressions of religious faith were distinctive in these different climates. 453 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:48,750 At Franklin's, in a somewhat less charged atmosphere, expressing normal religious doubt was permissible. 454 00:46:49,230 --> 00:46:54,450 So prisoners invited each other to religious celebrations. Interfaith dialogue was normalised. 455 00:46:54,690 --> 00:46:59,790 This was not the case in full. Something I'll say more about if I have time. 456 00:47:01,110 --> 00:47:07,350 So if we just take intelligent trust to begin with and look a bit more closely, if it's yellow, it's a neutral score. 457 00:47:07,650 --> 00:47:11,310 So three and above is a positive score and a thing below it is negative. 458 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:19,020 And there's clearly something very different going on between staff and prisoners or between the system and prisoners in each prison. 459 00:47:19,470 --> 00:47:26,670 But dimensions, in terms of trust, the scores are significantly different, starting at 2.57 in full, 460 00:47:26,670 --> 00:47:34,170 something rising to 2.71, which is significantly higher in long Latin and reaching 2.91 in Frankland. 461 00:47:34,410 --> 00:47:42,150 And if you look at the two items, I feel recognised as the person I am in this prison and I have opportunities to show untrustworthy in this prison. 462 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,160 The scores are highly informative. 463 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:54,840 Prisoners feel unrecognised for something less so at long Latin, but much less so at Frankland, which shows a just over the neutral score of 3.02. 464 00:47:55,710 --> 00:48:03,540 So there are, according to prisoners, more opportunities to show I can be trustworthy at long last and significantly so at Frankland. 465 00:48:03,930 --> 00:48:09,180 None of these schools are high, but these are substantial differences, and we're arguing that these differences matter. 466 00:48:11,170 --> 00:48:15,250 At the same striking pattern of rose for political charge. There was lots of it. 467 00:48:15,460 --> 00:48:25,030 Each president had a significantly different overall mean score with a step change from a low 2.61 and something to a significantly higher 2.72. 468 00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:29,320 It will not add to an almost neutral 2.95 Franklin. 469 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:37,780 We felt these differences, so for something had a more charged atmosphere and at Frankland, prisoners were less tense. 470 00:48:37,870 --> 00:48:44,829 They engaged with stuff and saw the almost neutral score at Franklin doesn't mean we didn't find angry negotiation, 471 00:48:44,830 --> 00:48:50,740 so there were still lots of prisoners agreeing with the angry statements, but the atmosphere was very different. 472 00:48:51,220 --> 00:48:56,410 One of the things that we're arguing is that there might be a kind of tipping point around 473 00:48:56,410 --> 00:49:04,150 the 2.50 mark below which all prisoners start to withdraw their consent from stuff. 474 00:49:04,570 --> 00:49:11,470 So some incidents occurred while we were carrying out research, including a hostage taking of a prison officer from something, 475 00:49:11,950 --> 00:49:17,230 and it was fairly clear that no prisoner was going to tick off the stuff in that climate, 476 00:49:17,620 --> 00:49:24,250 where in another climate, a better climate, one or two prisoners might have intervened. 477 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:32,620 So you can see there are some differences with ethnicity and religion also. 478 00:49:32,890 --> 00:49:38,500 So white prisoners gender reported slightly lower levels of political charge by scores, 479 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,780 except at long last in which is in Birmingham, where black prisoners reported less and so on. 480 00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:54,370 In all prisons, being influential, being high risk, being Muslim and being black or mixed race were dangerous assets. 481 00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:58,929 And we're hypothesising that these dimensions are not linear, that there might be tipping points. 482 00:49:58,930 --> 00:50:03,880 As I suggested, a lack of cultural competence was evident. 483 00:50:04,270 --> 00:50:10,930 This is one example, but there are many where talking with my hands could be regarded as aggressive if you were black. 484 00:50:11,230 --> 00:50:18,220 I talk with my hands all the time. I haven't been accused of being aggressive yet, except when I talk about this research project. 485 00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:23,450 Muslim prisoners were often the targets of deep suspicion and misunderstanding. 486 00:50:23,470 --> 00:50:28,930 Here's an example. When I was doing another call to prayer, I was written out that I was doing the call to arms. 487 00:50:29,350 --> 00:50:35,860 These are very significant misunderstandings. Many different types of prisoners were subject to assumptions of dangerousness if they 488 00:50:35,860 --> 00:50:41,290 were regarded as influential or if they had the wrong friends looking at us negative. 489 00:50:41,710 --> 00:50:47,800 A stripped down conception of the penal subject had major consequences for individuals and the prison community, 490 00:50:47,980 --> 00:50:50,950 and being written up in this way was often life changing. 491 00:50:53,140 --> 00:51:01,770 There were times when there were alliances and conversations about political events as well as local cultures. 492 00:51:01,780 --> 00:51:04,870 So stuff might challenge some of the prisoners on their wing. 493 00:51:05,140 --> 00:51:07,420 Why don't you eat Yorkshire pudding, for example? 494 00:51:08,410 --> 00:51:17,980 That gave away racial and religious prejudice and these intersected religion became a way of expressing grievance. 495 00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:22,870 And these things varied. I guess that's one of our important points. 496 00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:27,670 So respect and kindness where they were found could be transformative. 497 00:51:28,510 --> 00:51:34,630 Here's a governor at a scary conference. We've invited to an international conference of people interested in radicalisation. 498 00:51:35,460 --> 00:51:39,180 I think this was a Dutch governor was asked about a particular case. 499 00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:42,400 How did we de-radicalize this prisoner? I'm not sure. 500 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:50,480 She says. We gave in books and treated him kindly. So our results suggest that our hypotheses are supported. 501 00:51:50,500 --> 00:51:52,390 This is our model of political charge. 502 00:51:52,660 --> 00:51:58,629 It varied significantly by establishment, and these differences coincided with differences in levels of intelligence, 503 00:51:58,630 --> 00:52:04,000 trust, humanity, bureaucratic legitimacy and the quality of relationships in the prison. 504 00:52:04,540 --> 00:52:10,750 Bureaucratic illegitimacy is by far the largest contributor, and it's the dimension. 505 00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:19,900 We define it as the transparency and responsivity of the prison or the prison system and its moral recognition of the individual. 506 00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:27,070 It's basically about the sentence risk and dangerousness and the way these systems work. 507 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,590 So here are the items in bureaucratic legitimacy and the items in humanity. 508 00:52:32,860 --> 00:52:39,700 So these are the items that are making the prisoners feel frustrated and angry. 509 00:52:42,290 --> 00:52:45,320 Here are the items in fairness and decency. 510 00:52:47,900 --> 00:52:51,620 This is a tough analysis, just the Frankland, which had higher scores. 511 00:52:51,890 --> 00:52:57,110 And what you can sort of see is that high schools on bureaucratic legitimacy, staff, 512 00:52:57,110 --> 00:53:03,170 prisoner relationships and humanity in particular led to higher schools on both trust and intelligent trust, 513 00:53:03,410 --> 00:53:08,090 which in turn led to lower political charge. And these relationships are all significant. 514 00:53:09,260 --> 00:53:14,569 I want to get to three last slides because these are important. 515 00:53:14,570 --> 00:53:18,440 This is Frankland and it's showing important wing differences. 516 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:28,100 So we we saved Frankland till last because we'd heard it had a special unit and the pipe, which is a psychologically informed, 517 00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:34,459 planned environment and these psychologically supported wings are aimed at fostering good relationships, 518 00:53:34,460 --> 00:53:40,220 support, engagement, socially creative initiatives and growth or progression. 519 00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:44,030 And what you can basically see is that the scores vary tremendously. 520 00:53:44,030 --> 00:53:47,450 Where there's more yellow, the scores on these dimensions are positive. 521 00:53:47,690 --> 00:53:54,380 And the pipes personal development score was among the highest we've seen and it's matched by Grendon. 522 00:53:54,500 --> 00:54:01,310 We've actually found it's matched by another prison too, compared to F Wing, which you can see has some quite low scores. 523 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:07,459 And if you can see this, then the political charge scores vary alongside these other differences. 524 00:54:07,460 --> 00:54:13,730 So are low political charges. Low score is high in these two much better units. 525 00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:18,710 What was interesting about these two environments, they weren't perfect, 526 00:54:18,890 --> 00:54:25,610 but they seemed to be based on a concept of what Christian Smith calls emergent personhood. 527 00:54:26,060 --> 00:54:29,930 But they were. I though, if that makes sense. 528 00:54:30,620 --> 00:54:35,239 We have done a bit of digging around to find that both Grendon and most recently Warren Hill, 529 00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:39,470 these are whole establishments in this case are in the same league and there might be others we don't know. 530 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,740 But scores of this kind of quality are outstanding. 531 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:50,900 They're rare. We tend to find instances of what we're looking for rather than whole prisons or holdings all the time. 532 00:54:51,140 --> 00:54:57,469 But what they mean in practice is that there's more than the usual handful of outstanding individuals doing great work. 533 00:54:57,470 --> 00:55:03,020 Against the odds, there's something distinctive embedded in the culture and orientation towards prisoners. 534 00:55:03,830 --> 00:55:12,770 What we're finding in these places is I about practices and relationships, and they have a concept of emergent personhood at their core. 535 00:55:14,090 --> 00:55:18,440 So we're beginning to think about some of the differences between enabling in the broadest 536 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:24,350 sense and disabling environments in some prison is talking about disabled environments. 537 00:55:25,010 --> 00:55:27,680 What impact do you think imprisonment has had on your personality? 538 00:55:28,340 --> 00:55:32,600 It's destroyed me really in many senses, as you says, it said I'm going to get upset, 539 00:55:33,380 --> 00:55:41,720 etc. You can read the others for yourselves that there are such differences between prisons at the same time and wings within prisons. 540 00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:46,780 We think it's very important at the end that creating monsters, undermining trust. 541 00:55:46,790 --> 00:55:49,370 Belmarsh that was so dangerous they couldn't speak to us. 542 00:55:49,820 --> 00:55:55,400 We found throughout that the prisoners who were too dangerous to talk to actually weren't too dangerous to talk to at all. 543 00:55:57,140 --> 00:56:04,190 So one of our findings is that enabling or higher quality environments are oriented towards prisoners in a distinctive way. 544 00:56:04,730 --> 00:56:08,690 They approach whole people as they are via attentiveness to detail. 545 00:56:09,500 --> 00:56:12,050 Poor prisons are more hardened into a world of it. 546 00:56:12,770 --> 00:56:22,969 So the short story this is the short story is that we found that prisoners describe becoming human in I vow relationships with all 547 00:56:22,970 --> 00:56:32,210 kinds of stuff and how this finding what I can trust in you often triggers or at least supports a process of growth and change. 548 00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:42,580 So adding intelligent trust to thinking about risk seems to lead to a better kind of risk management, which can both reduce as well as contain risk. 549 00:56:42,940 --> 00:56:46,010 We've been watching staff do this and getting them to talk about it, 550 00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:52,850 and actually they're using the very best of ordinary prison officer skills to do it with some additional psychological understanding. 551 00:56:53,300 --> 00:56:57,860 Seeing the prisoner as a person and acting accordingly seems to be transformational. 552 00:56:58,940 --> 00:57:05,360 I will stop on this slide, which is probably just as well, because it's going to be too difficult to explain what it tells you. 553 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:15,229 We're working on this now. So only yesterday we decided to change that module into this module, which is more in line with one of Tony's models. 554 00:57:15,230 --> 00:57:21,080 This is us trying to work out the relationship between everything I've just described and some of the 555 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:28,340 dimensions of life in each prison and the social organisation and leadership and hierarchy in each prison, 556 00:57:28,850 --> 00:57:32,000 and expressions of religious identity in particular. 557 00:57:32,270 --> 00:57:39,110 And it's more simple than it looks that basically in the pipes a more rehabilitative culture. 558 00:57:39,470 --> 00:57:45,500 What we found was that. Prisoners had less fixed religious identities. 559 00:57:45,830 --> 00:57:51,170 So in that culture, we met our first Muslim Quaker, for example, a Scientologist. 560 00:57:51,170 --> 00:57:57,560 Muslim religious identities were fluid, the boundaries was softer, an exploration of identity was fostered. 561 00:57:57,860 --> 00:58:05,690 In Model one, we found narrow, polarised and policed identities with strict norm enforcement, 562 00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:11,900 which contributed to a kind of lack of pluralism and decreased tolerance. 563 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:18,890 So prisoners talked about how they could express their faith identities very differently. 564 00:58:19,550 --> 00:58:23,060 And so religious identity looked and felt like gang behaviour. 565 00:58:23,330 --> 00:58:30,710 In the first model, the power seeking model where norms were enforced using violence and coercion. 566 00:58:31,460 --> 00:58:35,180 The second allowed for a much broader view of Islamic identity. 567 00:58:35,420 --> 00:58:43,729 It was still kind of distinct, but there was there was collaboration between groups, a kind of learning to live together identities. 568 00:58:43,730 --> 00:58:46,130 And the last two models were much more porous. 569 00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:53,330 So we encountered prisoners who freely expressed doubt about Islam, who were considering changing religion to the rest of faith, 570 00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:58,940 or who described relief that they no longer needed to feel obliged to strictly follow rules 571 00:58:58,940 --> 00:59:04,700 which were being enforced in the model one so they could choose to miss Friday prayers. 572 00:59:04,700 --> 00:59:07,670 They could keep their religious practices private or whatever it was. 573 00:59:07,970 --> 00:59:14,240 So this is the bit we're still working on, but we're getting somewhere and we think there's a lot to be said there. 574 00:59:14,750 --> 00:59:20,719 And then finally and I promise I'll stop now. This is our failed state theory of prisons effects. 575 00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:27,379 But if we put all of this together and we try to throw in some of the lack of hope 576 00:59:27,380 --> 00:59:34,370 and meaning and some of the political and cultural events that are going on outside, 577 00:59:34,370 --> 00:59:37,639 which senior managers are having to kind of try and shield their prisons. 578 00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:43,100 From then we can start to build a model which in the tradition of a commission of inquiry, 579 00:59:43,100 --> 00:59:49,729 we can reverse and say that if we're looking for a grounded, 580 00:59:49,730 --> 00:59:58,940 generative theory of legitimate penal order which avoids some of these problems that we're describing, then it would look something like this. 581 00:59:59,210 --> 01:00:00,770 I better stop. Thank you very much.