1 00:00:00,330 --> 00:00:04,630 Chronology where we love him and then they used to work for. 2 00:00:06,570 --> 00:00:11,100 He's now professor of Global City Policing at UCL and the Jill Dando Institute. 3 00:00:11,850 --> 00:00:17,670 And today he's going to be talking to us about public trust and police legitimacy plates. 4 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,840 Thanks very much for inviting me back. It's a pleasure to be here. 5 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:25,440 I've actually got this written down, so I'm going to read it out. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,670 But you can't see that, can you? If I see it right in the middle. It's my last time. 7 00:00:30,750 --> 00:00:36,000 And before I start, I suppose to provide as I thought I would mention, 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:43,590 I'm going to spend a lot of time today talking about the experiences of immigrants in the UK, perhaps in Europe as well. 9 00:00:44,430 --> 00:00:48,509 And when we're seeing in contexts like this, because of the amazing work that Marin border families have done, 10 00:00:48,510 --> 00:00:53,520 we tend to think of immigrants in a very particular way. Those are not the immigrants I'm talking about today. 11 00:00:53,850 --> 00:00:58,170 I'm talking about the great mass of immigrants who don't have those kinds of experiences. 12 00:00:58,380 --> 00:01:03,660 So actually, some of the things that we talk about might lead into some of those experiences, but they are yet to happen to the people. 13 00:01:03,660 --> 00:01:04,770 I'm talking about that. 14 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:14,510 And the other thing is a useful proviso at the beginning is I'm going to say lots of things about group X, things Y on each and every single occasion. 15 00:01:14,530 --> 00:01:18,870 What I actually mean is, on average, people from Group X are more likely to think Y than said. 16 00:01:19,350 --> 00:01:24,100 I can't say that every time I say to people. So that's that's why I mean, because this is all based on statistics. 17 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:27,780 So it's all about probabilities of having a particular view or whatever it is. 18 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:29,730 Okay. So there are two provisos. 19 00:01:30,210 --> 00:01:39,180 So what I want to talk about today, as Mary said, is this trust in legitimacy in the context of policing in the UK and much more widely as well. 20 00:01:39,390 --> 00:01:44,580 So the questions I'm interested in today are things like why do people trust the police or not? 21 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:48,300 What does legitimacy mean in this context and where can we find it? 22 00:01:48,630 --> 00:01:54,900 What role does our place and community society play in generating or undermining both trust and legitimacy? 23 00:01:55,260 --> 00:02:01,290 How do the ways in which people experience not just policing also their wider social, cultural, economic environment, 24 00:02:01,470 --> 00:02:10,680 the location of police and policed and within structures of power, authority in effect shape judgements of this foundational state institution. 25 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:17,070 And what does all this mean for policing in a global city like London, which is sort of the stuff of gravity that's wrong? 26 00:02:17,610 --> 00:02:22,649 And these are important questions. We don't need to say a lot of this, but it's my introduction. 27 00:02:22,650 --> 00:02:27,540 So I'm going to say and these are important questions for three interrelated sets of reasons. 28 00:02:28,020 --> 00:02:36,060 First, there's a large amount of evidence, some of which I'll discuss later, linking trust and legitimacy to cooperation, deference and compliance. 29 00:02:36,540 --> 00:02:42,780 People invest, trust in and grant legitimacy to the police, more likely to report crimes of suspicion, suspicious activities, 30 00:02:43,110 --> 00:02:50,130 more likely to defer to officers at moments of need, and probably more likely to comply with the law that trust the legitimacy. 31 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:55,290 The job of the police, as we eventually envision in the UK would essentially be impossible. 32 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,479 Second, the presence or absence of trust and legitimacy in a particular person or within a 33 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,830 specific group or community is often intimately linked to feelings of belonging, 34 00:03:04,980 --> 00:03:10,680 status and dignity, or conversely, exclusion, denigration and humiliation. 35 00:03:11,100 --> 00:03:17,580 The processes which build and sustain public support for the police are bound up with inter and intra group relations. 36 00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:26,220 How people see themselves as individuals and group members in relation to the police and the groups the police represent is a key part of this story. 37 00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:27,420 We'll see later. 38 00:03:27,420 --> 00:03:35,910 Police activity can be an important factor shaping subjective and objective forms of social, economic and cultural inclusion or exclusion. 39 00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:38,970 Third, the police are not existing through isolation, 40 00:03:39,180 --> 00:03:47,400 but rather part of and experienced by the police by us as part of a much wider set of interlinked state and social institutions. 41 00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:52,920 The criminal justice system, most obviously, but also more ephemeral systems of social ordering and control. 42 00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:57,320 What we think about police confirms what we think about states and society and 43 00:03:57,380 --> 00:04:00,840 when we think about the condition of society and performance of governance. 44 00:04:00,990 --> 00:04:06,120 Government can shape what we think about police, and that's a pretty big set of claims. 45 00:04:06,390 --> 00:04:09,390 But at the title of the lecture, Sujet suggests the voice moves on from it. 46 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:15,420 I want to contextualise the discussion in a very particular way the diversity of London and of course the UK as a whole. 47 00:04:15,870 --> 00:04:20,640 I think that doing so could help us ground these claims in a specific context and hence understand them better. 48 00:04:21,090 --> 00:04:26,760 Essential question is what this diversity can tell us about how trust and legitimacy are generated and reproduced, 49 00:04:27,090 --> 00:04:33,360 and what can happen when they are undermined or lost. Ethnic, religious and social that I see are, of course, 50 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:41,460 of a number among the challenges facing police in the 21st century alongside cybercrime, terrorism and austerity. 51 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:48,780 The increase in diversity brought about by immigration and globalisation certainly does raise a number of issues for police in a global city land. 52 00:04:49,020 --> 00:04:53,700 And by the way, the global city thing is a way that the police in London like to refer to themselves 53 00:04:53,820 --> 00:04:57,780 because policing global cities becomes a unique set of challenges is unlike policing. 54 00:04:57,930 --> 00:05:04,150 And where else? Which is not true, of course. I've lost my place now, so I just, um. 55 00:05:05,060 --> 00:05:07,310 A number of issues for police in a global city such as London. 56 00:05:07,550 --> 00:05:11,720 There are practical concerns, such as the challenge of tracking offenders moving into and out of the UK. 57 00:05:12,050 --> 00:05:18,230 The difficulties for police tasked with responding to the distinction, the alleged distinction between legal and illegal migrants, 58 00:05:18,410 --> 00:05:24,860 and a more mundane level of the question of how largely monolingual police organisations can serve profoundly monolingual populations. 59 00:05:25,510 --> 00:05:30,560 But my motivation for organising this discussion around the question of diversity and particularly immigration, 60 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,149 relates and arguably deepest concerns the idea that diversity undermines a social 61 00:05:35,150 --> 00:05:39,350 cohesion and shared more shared norms upon which the criminal justice system relies. 62 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,790 Norms concerning, for example, the desirability of cooperating with the police. 63 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,020 Well, my primary concern is the issues of trust, legitimacy and identity, that is. 64 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:55,489 Along the way, I want to tackle what is, to my mind at least the widespread view that immigrants and diversity are inevitably problems for both the 65 00:05:55,490 --> 00:06:02,330 police and the wider activity of policing activity oriented towards the reproduction of normative social order, 66 00:06:02,570 --> 00:06:08,870 and the equally widespread view that immigrants themselves almost inevitably experience problematic relationships with the police. 67 00:06:09,590 --> 00:06:17,030 These viewpoints by many and varied expression in our social and public discourse, the extremes of the far right and Islamophobia, certainly, 68 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,180 but also elements of left liberal thinking that stress the allegedly negative 69 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:24,320 effects of mass immigration on group and value based forms of solidarity. 70 00:06:24,830 --> 00:06:31,910 David Good. I'm looking at you on this lesser account. The diversity engendered by immigration poses significant risks to social solidarity, 71 00:06:32,150 --> 00:06:36,560 our shared sense of responsibility, and our collective will to address social problems. 72 00:06:37,190 --> 00:06:41,300 I think such ideas are premised on a correct understanding of process, but not outcome. 73 00:06:41,870 --> 00:06:46,070 People's relations with place, relations with police are embedded in norms and values. 74 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,590 Not only are trust and legitimacy founded, most importantly on judgements about the way the police should behave, 75 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:55,040 norms that might be expected to vary significantly across cultures. 76 00:06:55,370 --> 00:07:00,080 But trust, and particularly legitimacy, can be that can themselves be seen as normative. 77 00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:06,560 We grant the police legitimacy in part because we have been brought up to do so, because others around us do the same. 78 00:07:07,070 --> 00:07:10,250 As a result, we feel a certain social pressure to follow suit. 79 00:07:10,730 --> 00:07:18,470 Hence, the pressure. Legitimacy is in these terms exactly the sort of social norm that value diversity is fought to undermine as our show. 80 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,380 This is not at all show. This is not actually what transpires. 81 00:07:21,530 --> 00:07:26,960 In fact, it's almost the reverse of what we can find in data drawn from a wide variety of sources. 82 00:07:28,220 --> 00:07:29,629 The association between Immigration, 83 00:07:29,630 --> 00:07:35,700 Diversity and Social Cohesion is obviously a hugely contentious area of debate and not one in which I wish to stray too far. 84 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,879 Though we can get into that later if you want, but I think we can use immigration. 85 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,620 The experience of immigrants as tools for understanding what trust and legitimacy are, 86 00:07:42,890 --> 00:07:46,520 the way they are formed and reproduced, and what happens when they are lost, as I said earlier. 87 00:07:46,850 --> 00:07:49,770 And perhaps we can address some of these other concerns too along the way. 88 00:07:51,150 --> 00:07:55,549 Discussion will proceed from here as follows My introduction being out of the way after outlining 89 00:07:55,550 --> 00:07:59,210 what I mean by trust and legitimacy and what we know about the factors underpinning them, 90 00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:01,139 we move on to explore immigration. 91 00:08:01,140 --> 00:08:08,450 The increasing diversity might mean for the relationship between police and public, drawing on empirical data collected in London and elsewhere. 92 00:08:08,750 --> 00:08:13,729 I present evidence that demonstrates there is nothing inevitably problematic and the relationship between police 93 00:08:13,730 --> 00:08:19,940 and communities and indeed the immigration might actually be a positive influence on trust and legitimacy. 94 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,070 Two factors are central to explaining this or several clients. I'm going to tell you my results. 95 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:31,910 First, what people want for the police is remarkably similar across multiple social and political contexts fairness, 96 00:08:32,090 --> 00:08:38,690 engagement with that community, and a baseline level of effectiveness and efficiency to the extent that police demonstrate these behaviours. 97 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:43,220 Positively. Positive relations with communities of all types should be forthcoming. 98 00:08:43,790 --> 00:08:47,060 Second, because they represent social order and indeed society, 99 00:08:47,390 --> 00:08:52,310 people's relations with the police are conditioned by their wider views and experiences, such as, for example, 100 00:08:52,490 --> 00:08:57,080 the change in perspective brought about by moving from a country of a corrupt and inefficient criminal 101 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:02,270 justice system to one where corruption is relatively low and the police and courts effectively managed, 102 00:09:02,270 --> 00:09:07,580 relatively effectively match the experience of many immigrants. Of course, on virus protection. 103 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,330 The final part of the lecture will shift from immigrants to the language of immigrants to the language of minorities. 104 00:09:16,340 --> 00:09:23,990 Here, the story changes. There can be less without. The relationship between police and many minority communities is problematic and often deeply sad. 105 00:09:24,350 --> 00:09:28,580 In particular, people from some minority communities often not composed of recent immigrants, 106 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:34,790 but rather those of a long standing presence in the UK, do not see police as very engaged or indeed effective. 107 00:09:35,180 --> 00:09:42,500 This undermines their connections not only with police, but also of society as a whole, further accelerating processes of distancing and tension. 108 00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:49,370 I will close by considering the implications of all this in terms of the only place on the place to manage these relationships better, 109 00:09:49,730 --> 00:09:57,830 and so to recognising the wider structural forces in play and then hence the limits of what police on their own can reasonably be expected to achieve. 110 00:09:59,570 --> 00:10:02,430 So the. Question is what are trust and legitimacy? 111 00:10:03,090 --> 00:10:08,880 These are used words, used liberally in connection with a place along with confidence, which tree is synonymous with trust. 112 00:10:09,180 --> 00:10:13,500 For our purposes today, like many search terms they may are social science terms. 113 00:10:13,950 --> 00:10:18,209 Their meaning is fuzzy, contested and often able to find is therefore worth spending. 114 00:10:18,210 --> 00:10:22,530 A lot of time, I think, defining what I mean by these words for the rest of the conversation. 115 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:29,700 Tony, for us to trust recent academic work seems to be coalescing around the idea that trust is a willingness to 116 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:35,610 be vulnerable to another standard in place one has to set in their current and likely future behaviours. 117 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:41,850 We can say that individual trust, a person or institution when they willingly place valued outcomes, for example, 118 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:48,330 their security or their freedom in the hands of that act or institution on the basis of a belief that they 119 00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:53,340 are its have the right intentions and a competence perform relative and relevant due to their actions. 120 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:54,870 So elaborate slightly. 121 00:10:55,020 --> 00:11:01,290 As I know Rene or many others have argued, what we might think is competency or efficacy as a core component of trustworthiness. 122 00:11:01,740 --> 00:11:09,870 People tend as much or more to honesty, openness, respect, reliability, and interestingly, in the current context, 123 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:15,240 an ability to show vulnerability by which I think she may mean and I think other people certainly do 124 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:20,910 me a willingness to show a basic shared human condition with the person you are asking to trust you, 125 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,120 something that the police aren't very good at. We might therefore say that trust in a place is premised on beliefs. 126 00:11:26,130 --> 00:11:32,070 The officers and institution are effective in the task set them are well-intentioned and will continue to be so in the 127 00:11:32,070 --> 00:11:39,630 future and crystallised and a willing sectors of the police role in securing outcomes such as security itself safety, 128 00:11:39,780 --> 00:11:47,100 justice and freedom. Seen in these terms, trust is based in part on direct and indirect experiences of the behaviour of police officers. 129 00:11:47,490 --> 00:11:54,930 These are important moments in which the beliefs that constitute trust are formed is also based on generalised motivations to trust. 130 00:11:55,230 --> 00:12:01,520 Individuals may or may not have. In particular, people will be motivated to trust when they feel they shared group membership, 131 00:12:01,550 --> 00:12:05,610 the police, when they have a sense that they and the police are in some way on the same side. 132 00:12:06,030 --> 00:12:10,770 And when police are located within appropriate value bearing narratives, stories or cultural, 133 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:17,670 social, cultural stories about the values, officers and institution enact, represents and embody. 134 00:12:18,450 --> 00:12:25,650 Finally, as Anthony Giddens and I believe argues, trust in institutions always in the final analysis involves a leap of faith. 135 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,890 People cannot truly know that police are effective and well-intentioned, 136 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:35,550 but many are willing to indicate that they believe these things to be true and behave in a commensurate manner. 137 00:12:38,340 --> 00:12:45,060 Legitimacy is in many ways a part, and a concept of trust, not least as much as it too is fuzzy, contested and often ill defined. 138 00:12:45,660 --> 00:12:51,719 However, I can draw here and what I've been doing with John Jackson might have and a number of us have recent years to provide what is, 139 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,610 I hope, becoming a fairly widely accepted definition, at least within bits of academic chronology. 140 00:12:57,030 --> 00:13:00,060 It's important to note this is an empirical concept of legitimacy. 141 00:13:00,750 --> 00:13:04,620 We're concerned with the judgements people make of the police and the reasons for those judgements. 142 00:13:04,770 --> 00:13:09,989 We are not concerned for today, at least with the appropriate appropriateness of the rules of government, 143 00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:12,690 police work and the extent to which police adhere to these rules. 144 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:19,380 We should define a normative account of legitimacy and a fundamental level of its empirical legitimacy. 145 00:13:19,470 --> 00:13:25,620 Concerns about the justification of power. Do we believe that those who governance have the right to do so and obedience? 146 00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:28,560 Do we believe that those who governance have the right to command us? 147 00:13:28,980 --> 00:13:34,530 Scholars concern replacing arbitrary justice institutions typically identify create constituent components, 148 00:13:34,740 --> 00:13:37,620 drawing on the work of David Beef and others of legitimacy. 149 00:13:38,010 --> 00:13:42,540 Three separate components of legitimacy judgements that map closely to this general schema. 150 00:13:43,170 --> 00:13:46,930 The first is normative appropriateness certainly defines legitimacy as, 151 00:13:46,930 --> 00:13:51,570 and I quote, a perceptual assumption that the actions of an entity are desirable, 152 00:13:51,690 --> 00:13:58,800 proper or appropriate within some socially constructed systems of norms, values, beliefs and definitions. 153 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:05,940 On this account, legitimacy is premised on a fundamental accord between rulers and ruled, is founded in shared norms and values, 154 00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:12,420 and is established by what Vivus as labelling is termed the moral performance of power applied to the police. 155 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,379 This process involves the implicit and explicit claims that police make. 156 00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:20,550 Police officers make to be representatives a morally appropriate institution. 157 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,850 People judge officer behaviour against specific norms of conduct, 158 00:14:24,090 --> 00:14:29,940 a view of how the police should behave generally as to generating a sense of normalcy, alignment of police or not, 159 00:14:29,940 --> 00:14:31,740 depending on the judgement they reject, 160 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:38,340 and they draw lessons from such judgements about how they themselves should behave in relation to the police and others. 161 00:14:39,090 --> 00:14:43,020 The second component of legitimacy is usually considered to be legality. 162 00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:49,020 People ask themselves what the police are following the rules intended to govern their behaviour or leave us to unsafe state. 163 00:14:49,020 --> 00:14:55,740 Not least because I think we're increasingly of the opinion that this component of legitimacy is in fact subsumed towards appropriateness. 164 00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:59,790 The third component of legitimacy is an internalised sense of consent. 165 00:14:59,850 --> 00:15:08,339 Two authority structures. Do we believe we have a duty to obey the instructions of, in this case, police officers duty to a base in these terms? 166 00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:13,140 That because Weber's insight that power is transferred into authority when it is seen to be legitimate. 167 00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:15,570 When one recognises the authority of the police, 168 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:22,500 one feels intuitively granted obligation to obey officers instructions and the rules operative within the space governed by the police. 169 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:31,140 Implicit here is the idea that institutional normativity grants the right to dictate appropriate behaviour in certain prescribed circumstances. 170 00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:37,290 The form providing basis for the latter. Not trusting that just as plainly related to one another. 171 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:44,610 But how well a trust represents people's positive expectations in evaluations regarding police intentions and capabilities. 172 00:15:44,910 --> 00:15:52,530 Legitimacy is the property of policy possessing rightful power and the subsequent acceptance of and willing deference to authority. 173 00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:59,280 One possibility is to consider trusses, evaluations and express expectations regarding normatively appropriate behaviour. 174 00:15:59,460 --> 00:16:04,260 So I have already kind of set that aside in states and I quote to say We trust you means we believe 175 00:16:04,260 --> 00:16:08,820 you have the right intentions towards us and that you are competent to do what we trust you to do. 176 00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:14,610 Which are of course normative judgements they relate to. Protect our understanding of how the police should behave. 177 00:16:15,060 --> 00:16:21,840 Legitimacy emerge with subordinates as US team, the power holders tend to act in more to the appropriate ways. 178 00:16:22,110 --> 00:16:30,870 So when the former trusts the latter, there is an important sense to it, therefore, in which trust flows into or forms a precondition of legitimacy. 179 00:16:31,230 --> 00:16:38,550 Empirically, this amounts to saying that there there was one. There is very often, although not always the other, trust, 180 00:16:38,590 --> 00:16:44,610 the legitimacy are therefore embedded in set of norms and values concerning intentions, abilities and moral appropriateness. 181 00:16:45,210 --> 00:16:52,170 What norms and which values? The research conducted within the perceived justice paradigm tends to suggest that the most salient issue is fairness. 182 00:16:52,590 --> 00:16:58,319 People believe, for example, the officers should make decisions in an objective and neutral fashion, treat people with dignity, 183 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:03,000 respect, and be open and honest in their decision making processes and they make judgements about them. 184 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,300 Threats to the police, largely on the basis of such behaviours, 185 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,590 acted in a procedurally just manner, indicates that the police have the right intentions, 186 00:17:10,830 --> 00:17:18,330 so they have in mind the interests of those they serve, that they are trustworthy, and then they operate according to an appropriate moral framework. 187 00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:22,740 Procedural injustice, of course, communicates precisely the opposite. 188 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,570 Naturally, other norms and values are likely to be at stake in people's judgements of police. 189 00:17:28,170 --> 00:17:31,050 These include, but are not limited to effectiveness. 190 00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:37,320 An ineffective, inefficient police force seems unlikely to live up to expectations about how the police should behave. 191 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,160 The idea that the actions of authority should be restrained within certain limits. 192 00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:47,640 The pattern of the police should respect the boundaries of their rightful authority and a wider set of concerns about the nature of order, 193 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,910 society and the types of behaviours needed to assert it. 194 00:17:51,690 --> 00:17:54,960 This latter point opens up the possibility, indeed the inevitability, 195 00:17:55,170 --> 00:18:00,360 that many other factors contribute to trust and legitimacy from people's psychological preferences, 196 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:06,870 the need for order and hierarchy, for example, to their social, cultural and economic position within a particular context. 197 00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:09,120 But come on to some of these issues shortly. 198 00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:16,920 Finally, the idea that legitimacy is closely related to identity and shared group membership is a consistent theme in research in this area. 199 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:22,680 On some accounts, the moral performance of power is central to convincing the public that the police 200 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,700 share group membership with them or a valid partners within an intergroup relationship. 201 00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:34,920 Feeling that one has a legitimate relationship with police service to persuade that this is the appropriate authority to deal with crime disorder, 202 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:41,130 misfortune and or disaster. Even in a party, even in a particular situation or in some more general sense, 203 00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:45,810 other accounts of some level of secret membership as a given and stress, 204 00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:51,840 the extent to which shared social identities mediate the link between fairness, judgements, trust and legitimacy. 205 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,759 The idea here is that police represent social identities, 206 00:18:54,760 --> 00:19:00,809 their failure to many people and women within which they recognise the figure of the police officer as an in-group, 207 00:19:00,810 --> 00:19:06,110 important group representative, something that chimes very well with such logical research and accounts, 208 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,840 a position place as representative, nation, state and community. 209 00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:14,190 This makes people highly attuned to the identity relevant aspects of officer behaviour, 210 00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:18,240 to their ability to say in essence you belong or you do not belong. 211 00:19:18,730 --> 00:19:22,860 Experience and procedure. Just policing strengthens the bonds between individual and group. 212 00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:28,830 It generates and encourages and or enhances a sense of inclusion and value within this group and 213 00:19:28,830 --> 00:19:33,630 promotes identification with the authority figure concerned and with the values it represents. 214 00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:37,020 And hence the legitimacy, cooperation and compliance. 215 00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:44,100 And the role of social identity in pursuit of justice provides one important reason why the trust magistracy 216 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:49,200 judgements of immigrants might be different to those of non-immigrants and a wide variety of possible ways. 217 00:19:49,890 --> 00:19:54,180 For example, let's put it bluntly if some immigrants, particularly the recently arrived, 218 00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:59,520 are unclear about their status in relation to social categories defined by national identity and citizenship. 219 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,340 Then the fairness of police activity may be less salient in their judgements. 220 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,080 In particular, if one does not feel one yet belongs. Perhaps that one will never belong. 221 00:20:08,380 --> 00:20:15,190 The behaviour of police officers may be less identity relevant and therefore a less important predictor of trust and or legitimacy. 222 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:22,599 On the other hand, it might be that police activity, especially personal contact with officers, could be more salient than only evidence, 223 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:28,870 precisely because they are uncertain about their status in their new home and about the nature of their relationship with its institutions. 224 00:20:29,290 --> 00:20:35,950 Status uncertainty may may make them more attuned to the identity relevant messages encoded in police activity. 225 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,350 There are, of course, other reasons why the views, 226 00:20:38,350 --> 00:20:43,360 immigrants and the ways they think they've come to form these views may differ from those of non-immigrants. 227 00:20:43,870 --> 00:20:49,450 I just want to address just one here today. The question of what immigrants bring with them from their country of origin. 228 00:20:49,930 --> 00:20:55,720 In particular, the change in institutional frameworks people experience upon migration may shape their views of police. 229 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:03,220 When moving to a new country, they may view the state institutions of a new home as equivalent, the same as those in their country of origin. 230 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:07,929 Alternatively, their view of the institutions of their destination country may predictive by the quality of 231 00:21:07,930 --> 00:21:13,750 those institutions in comparison to equivalent institutions they lived with prior to migrating. 232 00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:20,920 In other words, people in different countries and have already said people who moved from countries with corrupt, inefficient justice systems. 233 00:21:21,130 --> 00:21:27,250 They continue to view the justice systems in their new home as corrupt and inefficient because they have been socialised to do so. 234 00:21:27,670 --> 00:21:31,990 But then they compare the institutions of any unfavourably with those who have experienced before. 235 00:21:33,010 --> 00:21:40,900 So the lens that people use to view police in particular may also relate to the wider ability of the state to protect and properly service citizens. 236 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:46,660 And because, indeed because they are not merely part of the state apparatus is also represented in embodied form. 237 00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:53,770 Police legitimacy are likely to be influenced by wider perceptions of state performance and the general condition of society. 238 00:21:54,640 --> 00:22:00,790 This idea of trying to research and predict as a public appears of policing perceptions of the general level of corruption in the country, 239 00:22:00,790 --> 00:22:08,020 for example, have been linked to views of the police have as our perceptions of government performance on a more local visceral level. 240 00:22:08,620 --> 00:22:11,860 Local neighbourhood conditions. The extent of low level disorder. 241 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:18,460 The strength of community cohesion. A strong predictors of trust and legitimacy when local order seems well established and strong. 242 00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:23,380 The police representatives of that order gained public trust and legitimacy. 243 00:22:24,130 --> 00:22:28,240 The key point here, I think, has been made by John planning much better than I could set. 244 00:22:28,540 --> 00:22:32,220 And I quote, police officers are not handmaidens of justice or order in a vacuum. 245 00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:36,970 They are members of a particular social, political community and agents of state, state power. 246 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:41,290 And some extent they legitimately do justice to their activities will be a function 247 00:22:41,290 --> 00:22:45,160 of the legitimacy of the larger structures and groupings of which they are part. 248 00:22:46,210 --> 00:22:51,880 There is much to suggest then that the views of immigrants and non-immigrants will differ within the likely direction. 249 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,590 Extent of this difference is unclear and David might conclude from the discussion so far. 250 00:22:56,740 --> 00:23:00,610 The claim here is essentially the views of immigrants must be different because they are immigrants, 251 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,520 but we're not entirely clear why we think that might be the case. What then do the data say? 252 00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:10,630 For reasons of privacy, I draw on very particular surveys, actually for surveys. 253 00:23:11,260 --> 00:23:14,500 They suggest different aspects of discussion thus far. 254 00:23:14,770 --> 00:23:19,960 The first three will be looking at the relationship between trust, immigration and the crime serving in Wales. 255 00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:22,870 The effect of change of frames, of reference on legitimacy. 256 00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:28,450 Judgements that immigrants in the European Social Survey and a survey from London conducted by the MAX, 257 00:23:28,570 --> 00:23:32,080 they explored the views of young people from minority ethnic groups. 258 00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:38,349 Disclaimer Here is the way I think much of this data is a few years old to the extent I think I 259 00:23:38,350 --> 00:23:43,360 am talking about the basic functioning of social groups marked by imbalances in power authority. 260 00:23:43,690 --> 00:23:48,100 The process I would describe should be independent of short to medium term political change. 261 00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:54,730 However, Brexit in the so-called hostile environment for migrants, a development we might expect to alter certainly in the long term. 262 00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:59,710 Some of the basic functions, particularly their outcomes, return to this discussion. 263 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,610 In conclusion, and I have got some more up to date data from another survey later. 264 00:24:05,290 --> 00:24:09,070 So the first question is Trust the Migrant Immigration and the Crime Survey of England, Wales, 265 00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:14,320 CCW is our best national source on public attitudes towards a place where at least it was until I took out. 266 00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:20,530 Those are the really interesting questions, and it used to contain a set of questions that combined to produce an excellent measure 267 00:24:20,530 --> 00:24:24,509 of trust with particular emphasis on measures of fairness and good intentions. 268 00:24:24,510 --> 00:24:28,780 So there are questions such as the police would treat you with respect if you had contact with them. 269 00:24:29,310 --> 00:24:33,640 Also, efficacy such as the police can be relied upon to deal with minor crimes. 270 00:24:34,180 --> 00:24:38,740 Survey also records whether respondents is an immigrant and when they first moved to the UK. 271 00:24:39,850 --> 00:24:44,110 This chart, if you can see it, shows the correlation between immigration status and trust. 272 00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:51,910 What we find is that trust in the police was an average higher among immigrants to the UK than among the UK board population. 273 00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,480 So these people here, people have been in the country less than five years. 274 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,620 These are people being in the country over 40 years. 275 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:04,990 And these are people who were born in the UK. On average, immigrants have high levels of trust. 276 00:25:05,170 --> 00:25:11,800 And you have this kind of slightly odd curvilinear effect, which I'll come back to some of this difference was due to a lack of experience, 277 00:25:11,810 --> 00:25:15,880 particularly bad experience of police among the recent recently arrived immigrants. 278 00:25:16,150 --> 00:25:19,720 Overall, immigrants are less likely to have contact with the police, not immigrants. 279 00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:23,500 One reason being that they commit less crime, perhaps more personally. 280 00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:28,839 Six. Only 6% of those arrived in the UK in the last five years reported having ever been annoyed with 281 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,590 the police as an indicator of annoyance with the police and with lots of other stuff as well, 282 00:25:33,340 --> 00:25:37,749 compared with 14% of immigrants who arrived more than 30 years ago and 26% of 283 00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:42,190 people born in the UK once this contact experience was taken into account. 284 00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:49,540 The difference between immigrants and immigrants shrank. But there was a persistent positive association between immigrant status and trust 285 00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:53,740 among those who had migrated as it was not explained away by other variables. 286 00:25:54,340 --> 00:26:00,760 By contrast, those who arrived as children had essentially the same views on average as their UK born counterparts. 287 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:07,720 This Curvilinear Association between yes since first arrival and trust, which again persisted. 288 00:26:07,870 --> 00:26:11,020 Once other variables were taken into account, is, I think, really interesting. 289 00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:19,840 Why immigrants have been in the UK for 21 to 40 years. These people have less trusting in place than those who arrived before or after 290 00:26:20,260 --> 00:26:24,490 1/17 suggesting these are people who arrived in the UK in the 1970s and 1980s, 291 00:26:24,820 --> 00:26:29,050 but still a difficult time for British policing. That's simply an understated understatement. 292 00:26:29,290 --> 00:26:36,880 The area of the Brixton riots and many other riots beside the miners strike here was a stadium disaster and many other policing scandals. 293 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,620 We can only speculate, of course. 294 00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:45,250 They may be that people arrive into a climate where the relationship between police and public was particular particularly strained. 295 00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:48,670 Carried forward their first perceptions formed at this time. 296 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,290 And a voice has a legitimacy. There's a history to legitimacy which we need to consider. 297 00:26:54,610 --> 00:26:58,300 It's also worth noting that this effect is largely independent of ethnicity. 298 00:26:58,660 --> 00:27:03,790 This chart shows the interaction between ethnicity, variability measures and immigrant status as predictors of trust. 299 00:27:04,030 --> 00:27:07,510 The basic pattern we saw in the previous slide is repeated. 300 00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:12,610 So what's going on here? I think the overall picture is of Giddens leap of faith. 301 00:27:13,180 --> 00:27:18,940 Immigrants seem more inclined than others to indicate a belief that police have right intentions and are competent in the roles assigned to them. 302 00:27:19,390 --> 00:27:23,170 Of course, they, like everyone else, can't know for sure whether these things are true. 303 00:27:23,740 --> 00:27:31,360 But I think the key point here is that believing that they are making the leap of faith to trust is socially useful for individuals concerned, 304 00:27:31,570 --> 00:27:35,290 particularly perhaps those who've moved to a new country. Get in this position, 305 00:27:35,290 --> 00:27:42,730 trust as a as a characteristic of individuals that enables them to bracket out the complexity of the modern world and experience it as understandable, 306 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:49,959 coherent and manageable. Placing trust in police specifically reassures or may reassure and may enable action 307 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,160 because it motivates a sense that help and support can be invoked if needed. 308 00:27:54,730 --> 00:28:00,190 And as David Smetters argues, we're motivated to make the leap of faith to trust, since again, a quote, 309 00:28:00,340 --> 00:28:03,900 We want to believe that we live in a society where most people trust the police because 310 00:28:03,910 --> 00:28:08,470 society in which most people trust the police will be far more secure than any other. 311 00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:15,220 What might motivate immigrants to make a slave face? Why should they be more likely to make this leap of faith and others? 312 00:28:15,580 --> 00:28:20,740 One possibility is that British policing has a strong brand image of an arguably worldwide reach, 313 00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:24,520 its image wrapped up with Scotland Yard, the bobby on the beat. 314 00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:30,729 If you're my mother in law, Midsomer Murders and notions of fairness and equity may provide people who recently 315 00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:33,430 moved to the UK with a heuristic on which to base their trust judgements. 316 00:28:33,730 --> 00:28:40,630 It's easier to make a leap of faith if one thinks one believes one already knows something about positive, about the object of trust. 317 00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:44,920 What though of the effect of immigration on the already restive population? 318 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:52,030 After all, a key argument of the straw man I set up earlier might be that immigration damages trust in the place among the native born. 319 00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:56,590 That's because native born population, because it undermines social cohesion and collective efficacy, 320 00:28:56,830 --> 00:29:00,100 which much research has shown are key predictors of such trust. 321 00:29:00,670 --> 00:29:04,870 And it's certainly the case that when people experience a neighbourhood or community as cohesive, 322 00:29:05,140 --> 00:29:08,709 as containing trustworthy people, as efficacious in maintaining order, 323 00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:16,150 the police, almost inevitably linked to the processes of formal and informal social control, appear effective and well intentioned. 324 00:29:16,810 --> 00:29:23,740 Now, this question is, statistically speaking, really difficult to answer because the highly complicated social process is behind it and 325 00:29:23,740 --> 00:29:27,140 of always people moving into and out of areas and the reasons why they're moving up, 326 00:29:27,170 --> 00:29:34,990 it's not that serious. What happens? The population that's left, etc., etc. is a dynamic process that we're trying to capture with snapshot data. 327 00:29:35,470 --> 00:29:41,800 We can glean some evidence from the crime survey. Respondents in the survey can be grouped at a variety of levels of geographical aggregation. 328 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,570 One of the sources, which is the romantically entitled lower super output area. 329 00:29:47,020 --> 00:29:50,800 This is a census based unit with a population of between one and 3000 people. 330 00:29:50,990 --> 00:29:56,650 And because of the 2011 census, we know exactly how many immigrants were living in each area in the dataset. 331 00:29:57,580 --> 00:29:59,610 So this figure shows the interaction between response. 332 00:29:59,820 --> 00:30:06,190 His own status as an immigrant or not, and proportionally immigrants living in their area as predictors of trust in place. 333 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,570 And they have a range of individual and area level control variables. 334 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:17,100 We find that among both immigrant and non-immigrant groups, Trust in the Police is higher in areas with greater portions of non-UK born residents. 335 00:30:17,550 --> 00:30:21,930 Levels of trust diminish as a portion of UK born residents increases. 336 00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:29,190 In other words, even among the UK born population, trust in the place is higher on average in areas where there are more immigrants. 337 00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:32,430 I would stress that this find is indicative rather than conclusive, 338 00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:39,960 but it does again suggest that what seems to be a common commonsense view about the effects of immigration on trust can often be wrong. 339 00:30:41,070 --> 00:30:47,550 Moving on to the question of immigrants frames of reference. A reference data here comes from the pan-European European Social Survey. 340 00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:51,719 Fifth, over this survey, 2010 11 include a set of questions on trust, 341 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,370 legitimacy and related constructs on whether respondent was an immigrant and crucially, 342 00:30:56,370 --> 00:31:06,120 the country that emigrated from the dataset used as a sample size of over 60,000 people there only 5,001st immigration immigrants in that sample. 343 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:12,060 They lived in 27 European countries and they held from a social of 166 countries of origin. 344 00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:16,860 This allows us to explore how the change in institutional context that occurs with the 345 00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:21,420 acts of migration might shape immigrants legitimacy judgements in the destination country. 346 00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:28,169 What we find is that people moved from more countries where the rule of law was weaker to less corrupt, 347 00:31:28,170 --> 00:31:32,010 countries where the rule of law is stronger, at least according to the World Bank. 348 00:31:32,010 --> 00:31:35,430 Measures of these things tended to feel more normatively along with the police. 349 00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:40,680 So, for example, they were more likely to agree with questions such as the police generally have the same sense of right and wrong 350 00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:47,759 as I do those who have moved from poorer to richer countries in terms of GDP per capita for more normatively, 351 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,760 a lawless place and a stronger sense of duty to obey. 352 00:31:50,970 --> 00:31:58,290 So more likely to agree to questions. It was a duty to do what the police tell you, even if you don't understand or agree with the reasons. 353 00:31:59,130 --> 00:32:06,360 It seems on this basis that immigration immigrants do not tend to import negative views of state institutions formed in their countries of origin, 354 00:32:06,750 --> 00:32:12,990 but are more likely to react positively to a new, better institutional framework in a country destination. 355 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:22,200 And across Europe, of course, immigrants tend to move from poorer countries with weaker institutions to richer countries with stronger institutions. 356 00:32:22,830 --> 00:32:28,800 On this admittedly limited basis, one might argue that immigration is on average a positive for police legitimacy. 357 00:32:29,220 --> 00:32:36,240 But the main point, perhaps, is to underline the diversity, the sheer breadth of the factors that can do shape the legitimacy of the police. 358 00:32:37,410 --> 00:32:41,490 So immigrants, at least in the UK, therefore seem more inclined to trust the police. 359 00:32:41,850 --> 00:32:48,540 And any concerns that negative views inculcated in countries of origin are imported into destination countries seem misplaced, 360 00:32:48,540 --> 00:32:52,680 at least in some overall sense. What though? The role of identity in all this? 361 00:32:53,010 --> 00:32:57,000 If questions of group membership and identification of 33 trust and legitimacy. 362 00:32:57,510 --> 00:33:01,020 Does this play out differently depending on who you are and where you came from? 363 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:09,750 The Met conducted a survey in 2010 that allows us to explore some of these questions as put 1000 and a few more young ethnic minority 364 00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:16,680 men for invited comment in a London boroughs and asked them a range of questions about their experiences of police and policing. 365 00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:21,690 Using this data, we can trace the links between perceived or justice, identity, legitimacy. 366 00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:27,270 Explore how these vary between those who indicated they were British citizens and those who indicated they were not. 367 00:33:27,450 --> 00:33:32,490 Which, of course, nice to say not the same as immigrant non-immigrant, but it's close enough for today. 368 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,000 This figure summarises the analysis. Now, the final variable here is cooperation. 369 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,040 So moving on to what procedural justice or legitimacy do in terms of people's relations with police? 370 00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:48,120 What we find is this. This is slightly complicated. So I, I get it right. 371 00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:55,170 First, the both the UK and non-UK citizens procedural justice was very strongly associated with legitimacy. 372 00:33:55,770 --> 00:34:02,700 Second, but the UK, non-UK citizens procedural justice was associated with a feeling of identification with their area, 373 00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:06,690 London and the UK as a whole to belonging perhaps. 374 00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:09,660 And this association was stronger for the non UK group. 375 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,170 Third, in the UK group, the path from the state of justice runs through legitimacy to a cooperation, 376 00:34:16,650 --> 00:34:23,310 i.e. people born in people who are UK citizens were more likely to cooperate with police when they granted legitimacy. 377 00:34:23,700 --> 00:34:29,670 Fourth, and by contrast, in the non-UK group, the path from pursuit of justice cooperation runs through identity. 378 00:34:30,030 --> 00:34:33,390 People in this group more like to cooperate with police when they felt they belonged. 379 00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:35,130 What does this mean? 380 00:34:35,550 --> 00:34:41,340 One important idea here is that what the police do, the procedure justice to their activity is associated with people's sense of belonging. 381 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,900 And this association is stronger for people who are not UK citizens. 382 00:34:46,290 --> 00:34:51,600 Fair policing, we might conclude, can encourage people to feel like long and of course vice versa. 383 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,450 Equally important, though, is that for both groups, 384 00:34:54,450 --> 00:34:59,400 procedural justice was a strong predictor of legitimacy and cooperation, even if the precise pass through the. 385 00:34:59,470 --> 00:35:06,280 Model varied. It fits well with a wider body of research in pursuit of justice, which finds that almost well, almost wherever you look, 386 00:35:06,430 --> 00:35:10,890 you can find a perceived justice fact the norms and values most consistently important 387 00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,800 people when thinking about police which underpin their legitimacy judgements. 388 00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:21,160 And in this case they really just cooperate with police are across multiple contexts, groups, social relationships. 389 00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:28,630 Those are fairness, have dignity, consistency, respect, openness, engagement, inclusion and voice. 390 00:35:30,370 --> 00:35:35,320 The way of the evidence is therefore that immigrants do not have inevitably problematic relations with police, 391 00:35:35,770 --> 00:35:39,550 and b they tend to think about policing in ways that are very similar to non-immigrants. 392 00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:43,120 It is important not to overinterpret this as much. We don't know. 393 00:35:43,420 --> 00:35:50,500 I've been talking aggressively a very high level of abstraction, but at the very least, we have no reason to suggest that immigrants have different, 394 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,130 more negative views of the police because they are immigrants, 395 00:35:54,370 --> 00:35:58,750 because they come from countries with different values, shifts, want different things to the police and so on. 396 00:36:00,650 --> 00:36:03,490 Now, that's not the story we're used to hearing, quite frankly. 397 00:36:03,850 --> 00:36:08,650 And one of the reasons for this, I think, becomes clear when we switch from the language of immigrant to that of minority. 398 00:36:09,350 --> 00:36:12,360 Well, there's a need for caution here in our languages. 399 00:36:12,370 --> 00:36:18,040 One reason I'm reading this out is unlike the category of immigrant, the category of minority is very diffuse. 400 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:24,910 There can be no lack, but there can be no doubt that some ethnic and other minority communities do have problematic relations with police. 401 00:36:25,570 --> 00:36:29,920 And the most obvious example be in London being large sections of the black population. 402 00:36:30,910 --> 00:36:36,460 To the extent that ethnic and religious minorities are immigrant communities and U.K., of course many are not. 403 00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:41,019 This raises the immediate question of why if immigrants baseline views of the police are 404 00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:45,370 at least no different from and may even be more positive than those of non-immigrants, 405 00:36:45,730 --> 00:36:48,790 what if some minorities have such difficult relations with police? 406 00:36:49,390 --> 00:36:52,660 One answer lies, of course, in the intersection of immigrant status and race. 407 00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:59,980 Few would claim that experience of London workers from Italy and Spain are the same as those from Nepal, as our colleagues from Nigeria or Ghana. 408 00:37:00,460 --> 00:37:06,760 And this opens up a set of issues that, again, speak directly to questions of trust, legitimacy and identity. 409 00:37:07,780 --> 00:37:14,799 On the one hand, the history of police minority relations in London and indeed the UK as a whole tell us that contacts at 410 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:20,410 all levels between police and members of those communities are of central importance in marking the shift, 411 00:37:20,410 --> 00:37:27,250 if you like, from immigrant to minority, immigrant from Israel and to the UK with relatively positive views of the police. 412 00:37:27,460 --> 00:37:34,420 But in the past they've been sorely let down interactions of officers that did not meet their expectations and which were unfair, 413 00:37:34,420 --> 00:37:38,950 aggressive, violent and this labelling, denigrating and exclusionary. 414 00:37:39,490 --> 00:37:44,880 Well, things have reinforced, improved. We often forget that, but they have improved in recent years. 415 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,890 These types of encounters are also still all too common, and we can pick up their effects in the Met's Public Attitudes survey. 416 00:37:51,130 --> 00:37:55,270 And this is also bringing us up to date. This is data from 20 1568. 417 00:37:56,830 --> 00:37:59,800 This figure shows variation in overall trust and confidence, 418 00:37:59,860 --> 00:38:04,329 proportion of people thinking that local police do an excellent or good job between the white British group, 419 00:38:04,330 --> 00:38:09,370 which is the red line, and some of the key minority groups living in the capital. 420 00:38:09,940 --> 00:38:12,850 While some minority groups have less favourable opinions of the police, 421 00:38:13,210 --> 00:38:19,360 notably and fairly obviously black Caribbean and mixed black white groups have more favourable opinions. 422 00:38:19,660 --> 00:38:26,650 These guys. Okay. This figure shows what happens if you include only those born in the UK and worse non-immigrants. 423 00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:30,970 Here, every minority group has less positive views in the white British group. 424 00:38:31,540 --> 00:38:33,760 In other words, when it comes to trust in the police, 425 00:38:34,030 --> 00:38:39,190 the presence of immigrants within many ethnic minority communities seems to act something as a protective factor. 426 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:46,120 If you like, take them out of the equation. And relationships with the police and minority groups suddenly look quite a bit worse. 427 00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:49,750 Accumulated negative experiences within minority communities, 428 00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:56,080 individual and group levels is of course a highly plausible explanation for this quite striking pattern. 429 00:38:56,290 --> 00:39:00,970 Just toggle back between those. I find that amazing. Anyway, we need to be careful here. 430 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,450 The group level difference is represented in the chart. 431 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:09,910 A large, for example, 67% of UK born white British people said their local police did an excellent or good job, 432 00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:13,930 but just 42% of their black Caribbean counterparts felt the same way. 433 00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:17,200 But do not think this is entirely the fault of the police. 434 00:39:17,740 --> 00:39:22,270 As we saw in the case of changing institutional frames, immigrants, a much wider set of social, 435 00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:28,750 cultural and economic factors come together to shape people's views and understandings of police and policing. 436 00:39:29,350 --> 00:39:35,080 When whites argues that police minority relationships are influenced not only by contact with police officers, 437 00:39:35,380 --> 00:39:39,160 but also by the extent to which minority groups are incorporated into white society. 438 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,750 The manner and extent to which a particular group is incorporated or socially included, 439 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,590 if you like, would have important implications for relations with police, 440 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:54,610 not least, of course, because the police represent the dominant social order and reflect back to people their status and value within it. 441 00:39:56,740 --> 00:40:02,650 This implies that the objective characteristics of social groups. It's an location within cultural, political and economic hierarchies. 442 00:40:02,830 --> 00:40:10,360 Shaped views of the police group position would influence how group members conceive of institutions for social and political ordering. 443 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,050 People will feel an affinity with institutions that serve their interests. 444 00:40:14,290 --> 00:40:20,530 Members of groups that do well out of current arrangements would tend to support the agencies tasked with maintaining those arrangements. 445 00:40:21,130 --> 00:40:26,080 People from socially excluded or marginalised groups, on the other hand, will have less positive views. 446 00:40:26,410 --> 00:40:32,770 The legitimacy of police may suffer when people feel the system doesn't work, doesn't work for them, and may even be working against them. 447 00:40:33,340 --> 00:40:38,410 This could be seen very clearly in the SS and many other datasets beside across Europe the unemployed, 448 00:40:38,830 --> 00:40:42,160 those struggling financially, those living in deprived neighbourhoods, 449 00:40:42,670 --> 00:40:48,700 those disengaged from political activity, those who experience discrimination and from wider society or tend to trust the 450 00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:53,890 police less and grant less legitimacy independent of their experiences of policing. 451 00:40:54,340 --> 00:40:57,370 And of course, many immigrants, and particularly minority group members, 452 00:40:57,550 --> 00:41:02,320 find themselves in exactly these types of social, cultural and economic positions. 453 00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:08,580 This is not, of course, to let the police and the wider criminal justice system off the hook. 454 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,220 What they do or fail to do continues to be important despite the wider structural forces in play. 455 00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:18,630 I think Benjamin Justice and Tracy Letts work on the curricula of criminal justice 456 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,050 provides an insightful way of framing some of what I've been saying this afternoon. 457 00:41:22,740 --> 00:41:28,410 Starting from the assumption that the criminal justice system is a central way through which the state communicates with its members, 458 00:41:28,530 --> 00:41:31,710 they say citizens, which is a slightly problematic word in this context. 459 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,620 But I'm going to start saying citizens because that's the language they use. 460 00:41:35,730 --> 00:41:39,780 The current system is a central way for which the state communicates with its citizens and indeed 461 00:41:40,050 --> 00:41:45,600 it seeks to educate them in what it means to be a citizen just as a major or an educational ferry. 462 00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:53,640 To suggest that this process has both overt and hidden aspects, they focus in particular on what they call the core of the educational process. 463 00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:58,530 The curriculum, the curriculum or curricula of criminal justice, they argue, 464 00:41:58,740 --> 00:42:02,399 can be found in the interactions people have with criminal justice agencies and the 465 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,390 processes through which they move into and within criminal justice institutions. 466 00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:12,600 As I note, the word curriculum comes from the Latin for race course, something we move on towards a destination. 467 00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:17,160 These curricula constitute ways through which people learn about the values and meaning of citizenship 468 00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:23,400 and their status as inside or outside the social and administrative administrative categories concerned. 469 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:31,859 The overt curriculum is concerned with values of legality, participation, service to others, and engagement with society and community values. 470 00:42:31,860 --> 00:42:36,870 That is, of course, seizure, justice, trustworthy legitimacy and equality of worth. 471 00:42:37,380 --> 00:42:43,770 It can be found in code in the formal procedures, processes, rules and laws which govern the activity of criminal justice. 472 00:42:43,770 --> 00:42:51,360 Institution matters, and particularly probably the wider social and cultural images and ideas that surround the institution of, 473 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,950 in our case, the police. 474 00:42:53,490 --> 00:43:00,210 The hidden curriculum, by contrast, can be found not in official rules and procedures, nor in the mainstream image of British policing, 475 00:43:00,450 --> 00:43:05,010 but in backstage areas and in real life interactions between police officers and individuals. 476 00:43:05,550 --> 00:43:11,610 It is encoded in as mundane, quotidian practices of place that premised on unstated rather than explicit norms, 477 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,110 rules and beliefs in policing as it has on the streets, not in the books. 478 00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:25,530 Now, justice and stress on many occasions are to correct that operate in tandem and reinforce one another in the message they transmit to citizens. 479 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,329 The actual activity of many police officers can and does follow explicit rules and the ideology, 480 00:43:30,330 --> 00:43:36,570 ideology of policing, communicating justice, trustworthiness, inclusion, and the legitimacy legitimate use of power. 481 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,940 The all too often the hidden curriculum of policing constitutes the inversion of the over. 482 00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:44,670 In particular, through procedural injustice. 483 00:43:44,670 --> 00:43:51,540 It can undermine values of trust, legitimacy, inclusion, providing an education in what justice may as core anti citizenship. 484 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,380 The hidden curriculum socialises those receiving it in quite different ways. 485 00:43:55,530 --> 00:44:03,420 That is intended by overt trick. So what both curricular and operation at the same time will expose to them to some degree? 486 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:09,030 I do not think it's too much of a stretch to claim many first generation immigrants respond more to the over and to the hidden. 487 00:44:09,630 --> 00:44:16,290 As I mentioned, despite complex assumptions, they have lower levels of personal contact with police about themselves, crimes and crime. 488 00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:17,489 So in a basic sense, 489 00:44:17,490 --> 00:44:23,670 they are less exposed to the hidden curriculum and as much they may be comparing British police favourably with other police organisations. 490 00:44:23,850 --> 00:44:27,840 They may have experienced the overt aspects of the curriculum, may be more salient to them. 491 00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:33,780 They are more likely another responder is to the public image rather than the reality of British policing. 492 00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:38,820 And part reason they trust it because they buy in the overt curriculum and what it represents. 493 00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:44,400 By contrast, second generation immigrants and beyond, particularly those from visible minority groups, 494 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:50,220 seem prima facie more likely to be exposed to the hidden curriculum, and for such tried and tested means, stop the search. 495 00:44:50,460 --> 00:44:52,440 Their experiences will tend towards a negative. 496 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:58,260 This has implications not only, of course, for their views of the trustworthiness and legitimacy of the police, 497 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:06,810 which are undermined by sense of injustice, but also in terms of a wider course in anti citizenship through their interaction with police. 498 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:14,130 Too many people learn to quote just justice and this anti-democratic behaviours, manufactured failure and alienation. 499 00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:20,940 So to conclude there are and then I've claimed multiple factors and forces in play. 500 00:45:21,180 --> 00:45:25,200 When we think about trust and the legitimacy and legitimacy in the context of policing. 501 00:45:25,620 --> 00:45:28,800 Some of these are performance and behaviour related, but many are not. 502 00:45:29,550 --> 00:45:36,020 I think the experience of immigrants again offers an important lesson discussion about that here. 503 00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:41,280 So I do think this is true and my suspicion is that in some general sense we are drawing the boundary 504 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,710 of we very widely that are socially and culturally predisposed to trust the legitimacy the police. 505 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:52,380 So one could think, for example, of the legal sexualisation of children, the cultural aura surrounds the British police, 506 00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:56,610 or our basic need for security in a complex and sometimes bordering world. 507 00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:01,560 These factors and others point overall towards support for the police and police institutions. 508 00:46:02,430 --> 00:46:09,630 Trust in. Firstly therefore provide an already existing resource for police that can be drawn upon in all the familiar ways cooperation, 509 00:46:09,810 --> 00:46:12,150 compliance, deference and so on. 510 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:19,890 The all too often the resources squandered, sometimes the result of police malpractice, but sometimes also by social and economic policies, 511 00:46:19,890 --> 00:46:24,630 entrench inequality in poverty and which as a result, deform and undermine people's relations, 512 00:46:24,780 --> 00:46:28,200 not just with police, but with the wider state and society. 513 00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:35,250 So to close a tight race of thoughts on policy and very, very broadly defined, 514 00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:40,710 which also I think can easily summarise some of the preceding discussion and tie it back to the global city. 515 00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:46,650 So what are some of the challenges, what I've been saying for the police operating in a city such as London? 516 00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:48,719 The first of these is quite mundane, 517 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:56,010 but I think it's worth saying police are often tasked with meeting performance targets relating to public opinion polls, 518 00:46:56,340 --> 00:47:00,120 and I think this is a fool's errand. Such targets are often put in place. 519 00:47:00,330 --> 00:47:03,330 Last London mayors 20 2020 target regime. 520 00:47:03,450 --> 00:47:07,830 One of those twenties was a police trust incompetence by 20 percentage points on a measure. 521 00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:12,809 But I've provided provided here some small insight into the depth and breadth of factors which 522 00:47:12,810 --> 00:47:18,540 shape public opinion of the police tasking police with improving something that is affected by it. 523 00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:23,280 To give an extreme example, global migration flows seems unfair, to say the least. 524 00:47:24,030 --> 00:47:29,219 Knowing what's going on, for example, through the survey data, which I showed you is absolutely vital, 525 00:47:29,220 --> 00:47:34,320 which makes these surveys a really interesting tool, but they're not tools that should be linked to performance target regimes. 526 00:47:35,310 --> 00:47:42,180 Second point is this just as we need to think about the way the police are integrated with other services in organisational and operational terms, 527 00:47:42,540 --> 00:47:44,339 we also need to consider what people experience, 528 00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:50,430 that people experience policing not just as a one off delivery of service or sanction, but as part of a larger whole. 529 00:47:50,910 --> 00:47:57,790 This is certainly true in terms of their personal security history for the police, but it's also the case that at some level of people, 530 00:47:57,810 --> 00:48:03,150 many people see police as part of the general machinery of state and they read across when they reach 531 00:48:03,150 --> 00:48:08,170 judgements and draw conclusions about the different parts of this machine and the outcomes it delivers. 532 00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:16,259 When thinking about trust in the police, it might also that it is also worth thinking about trust in government, in councils, in schools, 533 00:48:16,260 --> 00:48:19,950 etc. particularly given, of course, the extent to which these agencies, 534 00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:25,200 agencies are increasingly seeking to deliver services jointly, at least in theory. 535 00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:28,530 The third point, and despite this, 536 00:48:28,650 --> 00:48:33,870 is that contact between individual police officers and members of the public matters even more than is often recognised. 537 00:48:34,650 --> 00:48:35,910 So we might claim, for example, 538 00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:44,190 the first contact with police for an imminent person or a child is an absolutely key moment in association in their socialisation, 539 00:48:44,340 --> 00:48:47,100 in case they're learning to live in love. 540 00:48:47,100 --> 00:48:51,510 And there is much to be done here in relation to training of police officers, not just in procedural justice, 541 00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,110 in terms of sensitising to the extent of the power vested in them and the 542 00:48:55,110 --> 00:48:59,310 sensitivity of all those with whom they interact to the extent of that power. 543 00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:02,159 So a particular challenge and fourth point, 544 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:08,310 a particular challenge is how to do this so very well to cite police training as some kind of panacea to solving these problems. 545 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:15,870 This seems rather hard to do in reality. And isn't it much more research and activity needs to go on around police training and some of these issues. 546 00:49:16,460 --> 00:49:21,000 And part of this is a need for much closer relationships between police and academics and 547 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,660 not just us telling them what they should do and not just and telling us we can't do that, 548 00:49:24,750 --> 00:49:27,750 but working together to try and address some of these problems. 549 00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:30,420 But I think also we need to think much bigger than this. 550 00:49:30,740 --> 00:49:36,720 I think there's a danger in placing too much emphasis on the behaviour of individual police officers response in them, if you like, 551 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,770 when we also need to think about what police organisations are doing and the policy 552 00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:44,520 climates within which they operate gives us one particularly salient example. 553 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,110 There's a need to take a long term view of likely downstream effects of new policies and interventions, 554 00:49:49,380 --> 00:49:52,530 even when the timescales seem very long for police, 555 00:49:52,530 --> 00:49:57,749 policymakers and senior police officers exist because policing done right can have 556 00:49:57,750 --> 00:50:02,580 long term crime reducing properties a become beyond deterrence and incapacitation. 557 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:08,730 But policing gone wrong can be effectively actively criminal anyway, because as I claimed here, 558 00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:13,950 police activity can change the way people think about themselves and their place and role in society. 559 00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:18,989 Finally related, I'd like to just reiterate a long running standard for much before. 560 00:50:18,990 --> 00:50:20,640 I'm not saying anything lawful here. 561 00:50:21,420 --> 00:50:27,780 We need to think much more about the extent to which policing is an engine of social inclusion or exclusion and or exclusion. 562 00:50:28,410 --> 00:50:31,080 If, as a prevent strategy states, this is what it says. 563 00:50:31,290 --> 00:50:38,450 Support for terrorism is associated with rejection of a cohesive, integrated, multi-faith society and a parliamentary democracy. 564 00:50:38,850 --> 00:50:43,290 We need to consider how everyday policing, not just specialist units and tailor strategies, 565 00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:48,240 is experienced, but based across people across the socio economic political spectrum. 566 00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:53,910 All police activity influences how people are in themselves towards society and justice group position. 567 00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:59,400 Economically, socially, culturally seems to be an important factor shaping relations with police. 568 00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:02,910 Then police activity can be an important factor shaping group position. 569 00:51:03,830 --> 00:51:07,880 Every decision made by officers to symbolically or materially locate people, 570 00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:13,340 in particular social and cultural positions, potentially significant effects for their future behaviours. 571 00:51:13,940 --> 00:51:18,769 Thinking about trust and legitimacy as we do this afternoon therefore opens up space for a much wider 572 00:51:18,770 --> 00:51:24,830 conversation about what policing is for and the type of things we expect from one police to achieve. 573 00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:37,800 Thank you very much. We now have about a five minute.