1 00:00:02,310 --> 00:00:06,990 Good afternoon, everyone. Just wanted to say thanks again to the organisers of the workshop. 2 00:00:06,990 --> 00:00:12,360 I know a lot of people have gotten a lot of work to make this happen, so thank you to everyone. 3 00:00:13,770 --> 00:00:22,850 Today I am presenting a paper that comes out of a larger research project in the UK involving the lived experiences of immigration detainees. 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:30,930 So I'm going to talk about this paper focuses on the themes of waiting and uncertainty in immigration detention. 5 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:39,990 And my argument in this paper is that the material and structural conditions of detention really shape how detainees do time, 6 00:00:41,190 --> 00:00:50,610 and it exacerbates the difficult aspects of waiting for decisions that have the potential to really fundamentally alter detainees life courses. 7 00:00:51,270 --> 00:00:57,720 So my approach, I'm a qualitative researcher, so quite different from the sort of approach Ben has just talked about. 8 00:00:57,730 --> 00:01:03,030 So I'm really interested in detainees narratives and using these narratives as a way to kind of really understand 9 00:01:03,570 --> 00:01:09,000 how people experience the day to day aspects of being detained and how they understand their confinement. 10 00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:20,100 So in talking to people who are in detention, themes of waiting and the kind of unique temporal aspects of their confinement have important, 11 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:26,820 effective impacts on how they do time and how they cope with the sort of uncertainty of their confinement. 12 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:34,259 So before I start, I just want to tell you a bit about the broader research project and where I'm sort of situated at Oxford. 13 00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:44,610 So I'm part of a research team that's led by Dr. Mary Bosworth, and I'm under her research grant that's funded by the European Research Council. 14 00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:54,389 So the project subjected identity and penal power of incarceration in a global age really looks at issues of border control, 15 00:01:54,390 --> 00:02:03,120 the criminal criminalisation of mobility, and the ways in which criminal justice extends out to areas that we're not normally. 16 00:02:03,210 --> 00:02:07,800 Maybe part of criminal justice, like immigration and sort of the services of border control. 17 00:02:09,660 --> 00:02:14,040 So the kind of main goals of the projects are to develop new methodological and 18 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,110 intellectual tools to help understand the global and transnational reach of penal power, 19 00:02:19,860 --> 00:02:24,570 and also to revitalise the literature on subjectivity and identity and criminology. 20 00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:32,610 So our little small research team really interested in notions of gender, of race, of nationality, of language, 21 00:02:32,610 --> 00:02:40,590 and how these impact on people's understandings of sort of where they belong in the world and also in sort of host nations, 22 00:02:40,890 --> 00:02:52,740 sort of the ways in which those who've been themselves native or of the nation sort of respond to people that are on the move globally. 23 00:02:54,660 --> 00:03:01,500 So some of the broader research questions we're addressing with each project is this relationship between penal power and national identity, 24 00:03:01,740 --> 00:03:09,569 and again, how this relationship is gendered, racialized. And really looking at the experiences and views of those who are subjected to penal 25 00:03:09,570 --> 00:03:15,180 power and what this tells us about the limits and nature of the state in a global age. 26 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,200 So just so that the presentation makes maybe a bit of sense. 27 00:03:21,220 --> 00:03:25,960 I just want to tell you a little bit about what immigration detention is and what it looks like in the UK. 28 00:03:26,740 --> 00:03:35,650 So at present we have 11 immigration removal centres and there's a combined capacity to detain just over 4000 people. 29 00:03:36,370 --> 00:03:45,760 The maps are shows where they are and they're really clustered in the south of England and mostly around airports in order to facilitate removal. 30 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:56,950 In 2013, there just over 30,000 people that went into detention at some point in the year and maybe perhaps of interest to this group. 31 00:03:56,980 --> 00:04:01,240 The top nationalities are Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Nigeria. 32 00:04:01,690 --> 00:04:10,060 So people who are detained in the UK are really often coming from Britain's former colonies. 33 00:04:10,390 --> 00:04:16,840 So we really do see this relationship between people's movement and the British Empire and Empire building in the past. 34 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,640 So who are the people that are detained in in the UK? 35 00:04:22,660 --> 00:04:24,640 There's really a mix of different kinds of people. 36 00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:34,480 So there's asylum seekers and this includes people that have failed claims or the claims and process as part of the UK's fast track asylum process. 37 00:04:34,990 --> 00:04:42,850 We also have foreign national ex-prisoners. So these people have completed the prison portion of their sentence and are facing deportation. 38 00:04:43,630 --> 00:04:48,640 We also have visa overstayers. We have foreign nationals that have visa problems. 39 00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:53,530 So in my research in this past year, I've met a lot of students whose colleges close down. 40 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,240 They have no visa. They end up in detention. So there's really a range of people. 41 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:05,740 And then we also have undocumented migrants, these people coming on a lorry from France, and they're detained with no identity. 42 00:05:06,460 --> 00:05:13,900 Our sorry documents, I guess we should say. And why are these people being detained in immigration detention? 43 00:05:13,910 --> 00:05:20,350 And I guess are the interest here is that it's not under sort of criminal law power, it's actually under administrative power. 44 00:05:20,770 --> 00:05:25,450 So there's a bunch of different reasons why people are detained. And this can be to determine identity. 45 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:29,890 It can to be prevent people from absconding while their cases are being processed. 46 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:34,420 And it can also be to sort of hold people in place in order to facilitate removal. 47 00:05:37,150 --> 00:05:41,870 So the paper that I presenting draws on ethnographic data that's collected. 48 00:05:42,130 --> 00:05:49,300 Again, as I said, part of a project project in the UK. And this involves both the in detention and post detention experiences of migrants. 49 00:05:50,110 --> 00:05:54,430 So I spent about the last year at four different detention facilities in the UK. 50 00:05:54,460 --> 00:06:01,480 And also I've been talking to people that I met in detention who have either been released into the UK or who have been removed or deported. 51 00:06:02,530 --> 00:06:07,240 And the methods I've used are persistent observation interviews, focus groups. 52 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,440 I do a survey, but I won't talk about that here. 53 00:06:12,550 --> 00:06:18,880 So in speaking to people who are detained, I talked a lot about how they pass their time and how they cope with waiting. 54 00:06:19,690 --> 00:06:21,819 So sort of spending time in the detention centre, 55 00:06:21,820 --> 00:06:26,080 you really realise that people are kind of waiting for things to happen, a variety of things to happen. 56 00:06:26,090 --> 00:06:30,430 So that's hence the sort of theme of this papers is on Waiting. 57 00:06:32,410 --> 00:06:40,600 And one thing I think for this crowd, people interested in law, so detainees aren't being punished in the traditional sense of sort of criminal law, 58 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:47,680 power and importantly, decisions to detain aren't subject to any kind of automatic judicial review. 59 00:06:49,420 --> 00:06:55,420 So one of the interesting and troubling things about immigration detention is that detainees are confined, 60 00:06:55,420 --> 00:07:00,129 but they have fewer mechanisms of oversight and really lesser legal standards than 61 00:07:00,130 --> 00:07:04,300 would be available had they been sort of charged or something under the criminal law. 62 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,820 So that's going to quickly show you a couple of photos of the field work sites. 63 00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:13,540 This is Camp Field House. It's actually located just ten miles north of Oxford. 64 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:17,080 So I spent about 51 days there. 65 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,530 You also heard this is the primary detention centre for women. 66 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:32,850 Cronenberg This is built to what we call in the UK a category B, there's an architecture, so it's about a medium security prison. 67 00:07:33,090 --> 00:07:35,880 It's quite high security level. This is mostly for men. 68 00:07:35,910 --> 00:07:47,220 There's a small women's unit and Dover, which is run by the prison service, and it is located with a lovely view of France on a clear day. 69 00:07:47,340 --> 00:07:52,990 It's on top of a hill. It's in an old fort that goes back to think Napoleonic times. 70 00:07:53,010 --> 00:08:04,070 It's a really bizarre sort of space. But yeah, it's one of the defining features of immigration is that it's indeterminate. 71 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,980 There's no statutory constraint on the length of time that someone can be detained. 72 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:18,330 Now the UK opted out of the European Union Returns Directive, which limited the duration of detention to a total maximum of 18 months. 73 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,320 So for those who are detained in the UK, their detention is really uncertain. 74 00:08:24,330 --> 00:08:28,319 It's unpredictable. It may last a few hours, it may not last a few days. 75 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,650 It could be weeks, it could be months. And for some people it's years. 76 00:08:33,330 --> 00:08:36,630 So this lived experience of detention really becomes one about waiting. 77 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:42,510 It's about waiting. Both sides waiting to know both when and then how detention will end. 78 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,920 So is it going to involve someone's release into the community, perhaps with a form of status? 79 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:52,440 Or is it going to result in expulsion so being forced onto a plane or eventually agreeing to go back? 80 00:08:54,030 --> 00:09:01,169 So the denial of liberty and the conditions of detainees confinement do present additional difficulties for them. 81 00:09:01,170 --> 00:09:07,200 So they have to contend with significant limits to their agency while they await decisions of a number of different actors. 82 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:15,509 And this includes their immigration caseworkers, judges, detention, custody officers, solicitors, and also sort of advocates. 83 00:09:15,510 --> 00:09:22,020 They may be working in their favour. So this concept of waiting is interesting, I think, because it's an exercise of power. 84 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:28,050 It's one that manipulates others time. And it's also one way that people experience the effects of power. 85 00:09:28,650 --> 00:09:35,250 So although everyone waits and we all wait on a daily basis for a variety of things, for immigration detainees, 86 00:09:35,250 --> 00:09:41,639 the lived experience of waiting in custodial institutions that are sort of characterised by high levels of uncertainty, 87 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:47,940 stress and unpredictability is really challenging for these individuals and for scholars of punishment. 88 00:09:47,940 --> 00:09:53,880 Like myself, this notion of doing time in immigration detention raises questions about affect, 89 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,820 about agency resistance, sort of how people cope with this kind of quasi penal space. 90 00:10:01,830 --> 00:10:07,139 So waiting in detention is really contradictory, both emotionally and temporally and temporally. 91 00:10:07,140 --> 00:10:13,799 So emotionally, it's highly anxiety provoking and stressful for most detainees, yet, because they're confined, 92 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,850 is also associated with monotony and boredom and the kind of day to day experience. 93 00:10:18,510 --> 00:10:23,520 And in terms of time, the experience of waiting tends to mark how people do time in detention. 94 00:10:24,030 --> 00:10:30,959 So every detainee's everyday lives tend to be organised around a variety of different bureaucratic and institutional time frames, 95 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:41,580 not of their choosing. So I just want to talk about three themes that emerged so far in this research in relation to the notion of waiting. 96 00:10:42,180 --> 00:10:48,150 So the first is this idea of doing time in a very uncertain and indeterminate context. 97 00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:55,040 Now, this experience of not knowing what's happening with one's life is really challenging for most of the detainees I spoke with. 98 00:10:55,620 --> 00:10:59,220 But not everyone experienced sort of this waiting to know in the same way. 99 00:11:00,450 --> 00:11:06,780 So a number of detainees made sense of their time in detention, visited the prison and the determinate nature of most criminal sentencing. 100 00:11:07,380 --> 00:11:13,800 So one young man I talked to earlier about, he's a Nigerian man in an early twenties and talked about it in this quote, 101 00:11:14,010 --> 00:11:16,600 as you can see, you know, he compares it to the prison. 102 00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:21,750 So he says detention is more torturing than the prison because at least in the prison, you know how long you're going to be there. 103 00:11:22,620 --> 00:11:25,950 But in detention, you know, he's got no idea. 104 00:11:26,010 --> 00:11:30,320 So every day he's hoping that the next day is going to bring some kind of, you know, 105 00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:33,750 end to his condition or at least some kind of news of what's happening next. 106 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,169 So interestingly, detainees I talked with also felt that this sort of notion, 107 00:11:40,170 --> 00:11:47,460 this kind of enforced uncertainty was one way the British government achieved its objectives of getting rid of people. 108 00:11:47,970 --> 00:11:54,660 So people kept in this state of unknowing and of uncertainty that eventually they would get tired of waiting and they'd just be like, 109 00:11:54,680 --> 00:12:02,310 I just want to go home. I want this over with. And this is their nature of detention really affected how detainees did their time. 110 00:12:02,670 --> 00:12:11,520 So some tribes try to impose a kind of order on their day. So one man I talked to, he described his sense of time in each day, 111 00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:18,299 dictated by the hours in which the Home Office or his caseworker, the solicitor, when he might expect news. 112 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:21,340 So he'd be waiting sort of in the night for the morning. 113 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,850 So after 9 a.m., when Business Hour started, he wait to hear something. 114 00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:29,610 If that didn't happen, he'd wait for after lunch. But nothing happened after lunch. 115 00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:32,970 He'd know that. Well, it's 5:00. Everyone's gone home. 116 00:12:33,150 --> 00:12:42,150 You have to wait again till the next morning. So this really shaped how his sort of he did his time, how the sense of time was experienced of him. 117 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:47,550 It was a very kind of sticky notion that it was slow and still and kind of being stuck. 118 00:12:50,430 --> 00:12:54,330 So others described their experience of waiting as being constantly on edge. 119 00:12:55,420 --> 00:13:00,780 So Henry Moloney, a man in his mid-thirties, you know, talked about this way as being, 120 00:13:01,530 --> 00:13:05,109 you know, constantly waiting so he could sit in a cell and he might hear someone walking. 121 00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:07,810 And you think, maybe that officer's coming to get me? 122 00:13:07,830 --> 00:13:14,720 So it's constantly sort of you never really at peace because you think, well, what's going to happen next for you? 123 00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:23,680 But that's what she you know, she was really hoping, actually, that someone would come to her and say, you know, you're free. 124 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:28,319 You're free to go. And she, you know, really anticipated that this could happen to her. 125 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:35,430 And she wanted to be one of those people who she saw that were being released and, you know, could experience that sense of elation and relief. 126 00:13:37,170 --> 00:13:42,060 But unfortunately, she was actually removed to India. So she's here somewhere. 127 00:13:44,130 --> 00:13:46,650 So the second thing I want to talk about is this notion of being stuck. 128 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:54,890 So immigration detention is supposed to be sort of one the person's last stop in their migration journey and the UK, you know, 129 00:13:54,930 --> 00:14:02,669 and she has one renamed its detention centres removal centres to kind of imply this mobility that people are going to be held for very long, 130 00:14:02,670 --> 00:14:06,120 that they're kind of, you know, moving out of the U.K. they're going to be gone. 131 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:12,389 But for a lot of people I talked to, they really, you know, told me about being stuck, 132 00:14:12,390 --> 00:14:19,140 that detention is some kind of purgatory, a space of limbo, where they're forced to wait against their will. 133 00:14:21,270 --> 00:14:26,760 So, again, earlier about this young man said before, you know, he really says that we're stuck in the middle. 134 00:14:26,910 --> 00:14:31,050 He doesn't know. No one knows what's going to happen next. And for some people, it really can drive them crazy. 135 00:14:34,430 --> 00:14:37,580 And a lot of people coped with detention through their faith. 136 00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:44,059 So this woman, Mary Jane from Zimbabwe, you know, she said that her source of strength, strength was in God. 137 00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:52,610 And she referred to detention as a form of mental torture, that she had experience and that without her faith, you know, she would go crazy. 138 00:14:56,220 --> 00:15:01,379 And detainees also talked about the ability of the British government to how the government's 139 00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:07,350 ability to dictate their time really impacted their sense of what was happening to them. 140 00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:11,760 And especially for young men in particular, they felt like their lives were being wasted by detention. 141 00:15:12,060 --> 00:15:19,049 They saw their sort of peer group, you know, maybe getting married, having jobs, going to university, and they're stuck in detention. 142 00:15:19,050 --> 00:15:27,209 And for some of these young men who have gone prison before, they basically spent some of them years in this kind of limbo situation. 143 00:15:27,210 --> 00:15:35,400 And they really view this as punitive and unfair. Now, detention is only one place that people wait. 144 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:45,570 You know, immigration detention is sort of, I guess, the most extreme example of how people are regulated in terms of immigration control. 145 00:15:45,810 --> 00:15:47,130 A lot of people are in the community. 146 00:15:49,470 --> 00:15:55,170 But for some people I've talked to that, you know, they might you might think that being in the community is preferable to detention. 147 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,850 For some, it presents challenges that detention doesn't, at least in detention. 148 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:07,050 You know, some are to sleep. You've got food three meals a day, and then you're in the community. 149 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,170 Many people face destitution. They're not allowed to work. 150 00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:14,100 They don't get benefits. They live off £35 a week. 151 00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:16,740 Some of them some people have no source of income at all. 152 00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:23,819 So one young man, Hussein, from Pakistan, he told me that, you know, in detention, they had everything. 153 00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:28,980 They got food, shelter, activities, yet no freedom. Yet in the community, they have freedom, but nothing else. 154 00:16:30,210 --> 00:16:34,680 Now, Mira, in this quote here, she emailed to say what was happy with her. 155 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,150 And she's just very frustrated because she's not allowed to work. 156 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,280 She's not allowed to do anything for her. 157 00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:46,230 This felt like a real indignity and that the Home Office in this case is making her suffer at every possible way. 158 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,889 So importantly, the experience of waiting doesn't sort of end in detention. 159 00:16:52,890 --> 00:16:57,990 It often follows many people into the community where they might have to wait for months and even years. 160 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:03,120 So this last theme I want to talk about is this notion of playing the waiting game. 161 00:17:03,810 --> 00:17:08,820 So if we think about waiting, we don't want to think about, you know, equating it with passivity. 162 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:16,890 So, you know, there's a lot of really interesting ways that the detainees I talked to tried to exert some kind of control over their situations. 163 00:17:18,570 --> 00:17:24,270 For some, they agreed to return to their country of origin as a way to kind of put the prolonged experience of waiting to an end. 164 00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:29,010 Others I spoke with continually chased up their immigration caseworkers every day, 165 00:17:29,010 --> 00:17:32,790 sending faxes, making calls and attempt to kind of speed the process along. 166 00:17:33,660 --> 00:17:37,530 A few others took drastic measures. So one man I talked to, 167 00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:44,490 he was really in this limbo position who the government would act to send it back to Ethiopia when asked to release him from detention. 168 00:17:44,490 --> 00:17:49,080 And he became extremely frustrated. And I did see his mental health deteriorate over time. 169 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:55,140 And he took to calling the police to report a kidnapping as a way to try to make something happen. 170 00:17:55,350 --> 00:18:04,930 In this case, Henry, who I gave a quote from before he had spent ten years in the U.K. and he'd been denied asylum. 171 00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:06,450 He'd exhausted all his options. 172 00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:13,830 And his strategy actually was just to wait patiently because he saw trying to make the Home Office make a decision would be provoking them. 173 00:18:14,430 --> 00:18:17,790 And he thought it would be strategically better just to wait and see what happens. 174 00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:22,170 And in his case, actually, he did get eventually released on something called temporary mission. 175 00:18:22,170 --> 00:18:24,480 So it kind of worked out for him in the end. 176 00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:35,549 Other people and most of these were ex-prisoners who were perhaps more experience with waiting and also often had longer, 177 00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:41,070 stronger ties to the community. Also, you know, refer to detention as a waiting game. 178 00:18:41,940 --> 00:18:46,560 Marco, who's a Portuguese citizen, you know, he said he's going to wait. 179 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:54,300 If it takes a year, he doesn't care. He's can wait for as long as it takes in order that when he does come out, his life is going to be sorted. 180 00:18:55,260 --> 00:19:01,370 And I actually met Marco in another centre nine months later, so he had actually spent since I met him probably about ten, 181 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:08,100 10 to 11 months in detention and he was eventually bailed, but he still his case is not resolved. 182 00:19:09,330 --> 00:19:16,800 Another young man, Michael, from Rwanda, he had come from prison and he, you know, for him, 183 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:22,860 he could wait because he was doing license, which means he was serving the community based portion of a sentence while he's in prison. 184 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,880 So for him, waiting was kind of okay because he became very frustrated trying to apply for bail and keep being denied. 185 00:19:28,890 --> 00:19:34,379 So for he decided again strategically that, you know, if they're going to actually if they did let him out, 186 00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:38,280 they're going to release him on really strict conditions and force him to live somewhere he doesn't want to live. 187 00:19:38,730 --> 00:19:43,620 So for him, it was better just to wait and he continues to wait in detention. 188 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:50,880 So I think one of the interesting aspects of immigration detention is that the majority of detainees are compliant. 189 00:19:53,430 --> 00:20:00,000 You know, they do sit sort of largely covered by and wait patiently for the Home Office to make decisions in their case. 190 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:08,670 And I think what's really interesting is the way in which waiting creates a new creates relations of domination and subordination. 191 00:20:10,620 --> 00:20:15,089 So we can see waiting as one way that it's about being subordinated to the will of others. 192 00:20:15,090 --> 00:20:18,840 And that's an exercise of power of. 193 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,720 So we can see the interactions of power here. It's not that detainees are powerless. 194 00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:33,050 Detention doesn't pose significant constraints on their agency, their ability to change their circumstances. 195 00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:42,230 But in the few examples I've given and hope to elaborate more on that in the paper is that there are different ways that people who are detained 196 00:20:42,620 --> 00:20:52,340 can negotiate this weighting and really do so in some often some kind of creative ways as a way to sort of make sense of who they are, 197 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,380 where they are, and why they're being held. 198 00:20:55,250 --> 00:21:04,850 So one thing I hope to work out a bit more in this paper is the notion of waiting in conditions of uncertainty and predictability 199 00:21:04,850 --> 00:21:12,020 as being predictive of certain kinds of detained subjects who acquiesce to the dictates of the British government while they wait, 200 00:21:12,170 --> 00:21:18,260 hoping for decisions in their favour. But I think if we think practically about it, if you have any other choice but to wait. 201 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:22,250 So and I've given a number of people cards. 202 00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:29,090 If you're interested in any of the research on Borders for criminology, please visit our website. 203 00:21:29,090 --> 00:21:32,659 We have a lot of publications, information about the different projects, 204 00:21:32,660 --> 00:21:37,040 and a great blog that shares information about what we do at Oxford and our team. 205 00:21:37,070 --> 00:21:45,020 So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, sir, for giving the time as well. 206 00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:48,470 Thank you and good.