1 00:00:17,470 --> 00:00:23,170 I'm delighted to welcome you to today's this years Milton lecture. 2 00:00:23,170 --> 00:00:30,880 It's now the eighth in what we hope is gradually becoming a very long, very successful tradition. 3 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:37,580 My name is David Leopold and I teach political theory in the Politics and International Relations Department here in Oxford. 4 00:00:37,580 --> 00:00:45,580 But I'm also a tutor at Mansfield. And my college fellowship, like today's lecture, is named after John Milton. 5 00:00:45,580 --> 00:00:52,480 I'm very pleased to have that association. Milton has many positive connexions for political theorists, 6 00:00:52,480 --> 00:01:01,780 not least he's thought of as a sophisticated advocate of Republican freedom and a powerful defender of free speech. 7 00:01:01,780 --> 00:01:11,800 We should probably admit that Mansfield's own connexions with Milton are a little more indirect, but they are eminently material. 8 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:19,300 Milton was an inspirational figure to the nonconformists who established the college in the late 19th century. 9 00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:23,020 Those nonconformists viewed him as something of a spiritual and political fellow 10 00:01:23,020 --> 00:01:29,530 traveller who could lend his intellectual authority to their own educational endeavours. 11 00:01:29,530 --> 00:01:39,460 And they built Milton into the very fabric of the college. It is his statue that you can see but are unlikely to be able to make out at least unaided, 12 00:01:39,460 --> 00:01:44,950 high up on the face of the tower, above the entrance door to the original college buildings. 13 00:01:44,950 --> 00:01:56,140 And Milton also stands much more visible. Not least of all, because he's neatly labelled in the stained glass windows of the chapel. 14 00:01:56,140 --> 00:02:02,980 This lecture and my college fellowship are named after Milton at the request of Charles and Carolyn Brock, 15 00:02:02,980 --> 00:02:09,520 the Bronx worked at Mansfield for some 35 years before returning home to the United States. 16 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:16,510 And they made a huge contribution to menso during that time, not least of all, they played a central role in the college, 17 00:02:16,510 --> 00:02:25,690 actually becoming the kind of friendly and open community that Oxford colleges always say they are but don't always succeed in being. 18 00:02:25,690 --> 00:02:30,640 The musical life of the college in particular, owes a great debt to Carolyn and Charles. 19 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:40,150 Get the college a practical living demonstration of his conviction that serious learning and having a good time were not mutually exclusive. 20 00:02:40,150 --> 00:02:44,530 It's very typical of them that when they became generous benefactors to Mansfield, 21 00:02:44,530 --> 00:02:50,340 they didn't want their own name given prominence but that of one of their heroes. 22 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:58,650 Carolyn, sadly, died in 2017, but we had very much hope that Charles and Mary would be with us this year for the Milton Lecture. 23 00:02:58,650 --> 00:03:03,240 Unfortunately, the circumstances of the pandemic have made that impossible. 24 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:10,500 But we know Charles and Mary are watching. And I want to say that they are both very much in our hearts minds today. 25 00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:15,330 And I will now invite the principal to introduce this year's Milton Lecture. 26 00:03:15,330 --> 00:03:26,530 Thank you. Thank you, David. 27 00:03:26,530 --> 00:03:33,610 My name is Helen Matfield and the principal at Mansfield College, and it is my pleasure really to have three things to do this evening, 28 00:03:33,610 --> 00:03:43,030 partly to thank David for that introduction and for explaining the history and place of the Milton Lecture in our college and our culture, 29 00:03:43,030 --> 00:03:50,740 partly to reiterate his thanks for the emeritus fellow and former chaplain Charles Broch, whom we wish was here in person. 30 00:03:50,740 --> 00:03:55,270 But we do know he is in here, here in spirit and in fact, also on Zoome. So we salute you, Charles. 31 00:03:55,270 --> 00:04:07,480 Thank you. And finally, to welcome Tristram Hunt at this year's Milton Lecturer in this the 150 year anniversary of the repeal of the test at. 32 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,960 In five days on the 16th of June, 33 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:19,660 it will be exactly 150 years since our first celebrity dinner guest at Mansfield was that great high Anglican and then the sitting prime minister, 34 00:04:19,660 --> 00:04:28,790 William Gladstone, and he came to celebrate the founding of Mansfield College in Oxford as its first dissenting college training college, 35 00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:39,200 then for Congregationalists. I think that journalism would have been pleased, and I hope that he would also have been pleased that other subjects, 36 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,870 including philosophy and politics and literature, 37 00:04:41,870 --> 00:04:51,170 were added to our learning here and that the nonconformist spirit of the college today in a very contemporary sense, 38 00:04:51,170 --> 00:05:03,260 Milton, like the academics and students here, used his considerable talents to think and write and act on the greatest use of the day with poetry, 39 00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:12,510 drama, theology, politics and what was then called pamphleteering to foster the cause of greater freedom in the British Isles. 40 00:05:12,510 --> 00:05:19,730 And of course, that is still in need of defence. So we are proud of our Milton statue as well. 41 00:05:19,730 --> 00:05:23,660 Now, of course, of our Roosevelt statue, Eleanor Roosevelt statue. 42 00:05:23,660 --> 00:05:33,050 And we are proud to have a lecturer named after the great author of our Politicker the great philosophical defence of free speech and Free Thinking, 43 00:05:33,050 --> 00:05:44,080 which is so central to the culture of civil and as David says, friendly challenge and enquiry, which we nurture at Mansfield today. 44 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:50,950 When Charles Brock founded the Milton Fellowship, 45 00:05:50,950 --> 00:05:58,030 he wanted the Milton Fellows duties to include university teaching and historical and or contemporary 46 00:05:58,030 --> 00:06:04,300 arenas of Milton's interests and organising an annual public lecture on Milton's concerns for today. 47 00:06:04,300 --> 00:06:12,820 And I quote, for example, in philosophy, politics, psychology, poetry, prose plays, Psalmody, Presbyterianism piety, 48 00:06:12,820 --> 00:06:22,300 Physick physics and précis, not paresis or what I first read them, but that's just to name some of the piece, he helpfully added. 49 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:31,300 So that's quite a lot of pressure. But I am sure that Charles and Mary will agree that the stellar career of our speaker for this year's 50 00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:38,020 Milton Lecture incorporates so much of that interdisciplinary thinking and acting that he aspires to, 51 00:06:38,020 --> 00:06:50,330 if not every single one of those piece. Dr. Tristram Hunt became the director of Victorian Albert Museum in London in February 2017. 52 00:06:50,330 --> 00:06:56,000 Like Milton, he was formerly a member of parliament and Tristram's case for Stoke-On-Trent Central 53 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:01,130 and he served as the Labour Party's shadow secretary of state for education. 54 00:07:01,130 --> 00:07:05,570 He has a first class degree in history from Trinity College, Cambridge, 55 00:07:05,570 --> 00:07:12,770 and also took his doctorate in Cambridge on Civic thought in Britain between 1820 and 1860. 56 00:07:12,770 --> 00:07:19,790 He's been a special adviser to the Science Minister, Lord Sainsbury, an associate fellow at the Centre for History and Economics at King's College, 57 00:07:19,790 --> 00:07:25,440 Cambridge, and a senior fellow at the Institute for Public Policy Research. 58 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,700 Where I gather he remodelled government almost single handedly, 59 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:36,840 and Tristram's also presented a range of radio and television programmes for the BBC and Channel four and written a number of books, 60 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,320 including the award winning biography, The Frock Coated Communist, 61 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:46,800 The Revolutionary Life of Friedrich Engels and most recently, 10 Cities That Made an empire. 62 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,580 Tristram has lectured on British and international culture all over the world, 63 00:07:50,580 --> 00:07:55,680 and I am truly delighted and honoured to have him here at Mansfield tonight, 64 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,270 finally having postponed the lecture from last year for inevitable reasons. 65 00:08:00,270 --> 00:08:03,780 So welcome, Tristram, to give our 2020 one lecture. 66 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:15,420 Thank you very much. Thank you very much indeed. 67 00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:22,470 It's an enormous pleasure to be at Mansfield College to deliver this year's Milton Lecture. 68 00:08:22,470 --> 00:08:32,700 This is a college dedicated to the freedom which education imparts very much within the Tonin tradition. 69 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:39,110 And this college has long been an agent, Oxford's leading agent of social mobility. 70 00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:54,750 So it's a privilege to be here this evening. Give me the liberty to no to utter and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties. 71 00:08:54,750 --> 00:09:07,740 So John Milton, in our politica, his great rallying cry against state censorship in Milton's conception of negative freedoms, freedom from tyranny, 72 00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:15,000 censorship, manipulation and exploitation, we still hear the contemporary relevance of the great poet, 73 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,110 writer and civil servant civic Republican vision. 74 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:23,520 His impassioned defence of liberty continues to bear significance, 75 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:32,910 his words increasingly salient amid the rising tides of populism, nationalism and manifest intolerances. 76 00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:41,940 Today, it more and more folds to institutions like museums, along with a free media business, universities, 77 00:09:41,940 --> 00:09:51,870 faith bodies and civil society to preserve the ecology of democracy and the hybridity of contemporary civic life. 78 00:09:51,870 --> 00:10:03,570 At the Victorian Albert Museum, Milton Stately portrait can be found across our collections, as can many visual references to his literary works. 79 00:10:03,570 --> 00:10:15,360 Most famously, of course, the works by Blake illustrating Paradise Lost, Milton's great epic poem, 80 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:24,420 Blake representing Satan and his accomplices as beautiful in appearance based on figures of classical sculpture. 81 00:10:24,420 --> 00:10:31,530 But against the wretched backdrop of the covid-19 global pandemic and the suspension 82 00:10:31,530 --> 00:10:38,820 of even our basic freedoms movement association and our ability to conduct business, 83 00:10:38,820 --> 00:10:45,730 Milton's words have found new meaning during these unprecedented peacetime lockdowns. 84 00:10:45,730 --> 00:10:51,360 Our perceptions of liberty and the lack of it are all the more apparent. 85 00:10:51,360 --> 00:11:01,200 In the cultural sector, enforced closures in the fight against the virus have blocked the role that museums are so keen to provide, 86 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:11,580 human contact, reflection, communal space and connexion to community and place are essential to our mission. 87 00:11:11,580 --> 00:11:20,490 The Victorian Albert Museum is an institution inherently tied to the values of freedom and democracy. 88 00:11:20,490 --> 00:11:28,020 The themes I wish to explore this evening, the Vienna is founding principles to make works of art available to all, 89 00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:37,800 to educate and to inspire good design have fostered a strongly democratic ethos that leads our endeavours to this day. 90 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:45,330 Our buildings are open and free to wander, and through our exhibitions, research, publications and education programmes, 91 00:11:45,330 --> 00:11:56,190 we aim to show 5000 years of human ingenuity, to spark the imagination of today's designers, artists and creators. 92 00:11:56,190 --> 00:12:05,790 And when we look at the origins of the Victorian Albert Museum, I always like to return to the works of a man who got three. 93 00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:16,680 Simple. Collections and public monuments are the true teachers of a free people, so said Samper, 94 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:24,660 the architect, Democrat and social reformer, when making the case for the South Kensington Museum. 95 00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:28,380 Later, the VRA in the mid 19th century, 96 00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:41,340 Simper had fled to Britain after the failure of the 1848 49 continental revolutions and found refuge in Prince Albert's court at Kensington Palace. 97 00:12:41,340 --> 00:12:49,140 And he was part of this circle of radicals thinking about the pathway to democracy during the course 98 00:12:49,140 --> 00:12:56,340 of the 19th century and passionately believed that museums and public monuments alongside mechanics, 99 00:12:56,340 --> 00:13:01,950 institutes, universities, public parks, had this essential role in the education, 100 00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:08,700 as they put it, of all future masters as the transition to a democratic society. 101 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:13,710 Much of sampas vision, which then flowed through to good Prince Albert, 102 00:13:13,710 --> 00:13:21,330 was itself heavily indebted to the founders of Berlin's museum Cityscape Alexander and Wilhelm von Humboldt, 103 00:13:21,330 --> 00:13:29,010 who, with enlightenment confidence, first championed this democratic conception of public education. 104 00:13:29,010 --> 00:13:38,730 Albert, who frequently wrote to the Humboldt's who very rarely wrote but wanted to translate the HUMBOLDT'S an idea of art and science, 105 00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:45,480 humanities and technology onto British soil as part of his own cultural battle against 106 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:53,110 what he regarded as the philistine backward Anglican elite of the British ruling classes. 107 00:13:53,110 --> 00:14:03,390 After the international success of London's 1851 Great Exhibition, which once again Albert's idea vast profits, gave him the opportunity to do so. 108 00:14:03,390 --> 00:14:12,360 So south of Kensington Palace, the Gardens of Brompton became Prince Albert's own Berlin style Museum Island. 109 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,640 What we call today, Albert Topolice, 110 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:22,620 complete with a similarly ambitious range of cultural institutions from the Imperial Institute to the South Kensington Museum to, 111 00:14:22,620 --> 00:14:29,970 in time, the Royal Albert Hall. Gottfried Simper, along with the other emigres surrounding the Prince consort, 112 00:14:29,970 --> 00:14:37,610 would help Albert shake the civic vision of this his new museum, education reform. 113 00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:46,610 Mike Mansfield College lay at the heart of this mission for the South Kensington Museum, was not going to be a traditional museum, 114 00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:56,450 a gallery for connoisseurs, but rather a place for the wider public where collections with proper instruction and debate paint. 115 00:14:56,450 --> 00:15:02,930 This museum was pioneering the first devoted to decorative applied or industrial art, 116 00:15:02,930 --> 00:15:07,430 together with the HUMBOLDT'S philosophy of access and improvement. 117 00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:15,260 And that found a ready echo in the South Kensington Museum's commitment to popularise its collections. 118 00:15:15,260 --> 00:15:24,410 So right from the beginning of the South Kensington Museum, it had this different ethos which Henry Cole, the first director, was so passionate about. 119 00:15:24,410 --> 00:15:33,170 So the Vienna was the first to have a restaurant and cafe so that you could have an enjoyable day out at the museum. 120 00:15:33,170 --> 00:15:43,040 Nothing is more tiring and going to a museum. So you could rest and die in wonderful rooms than designed by William Morris, by Gamble, by Poynter. 121 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:49,880 And here you see on the left of the museum was also the first to introduce gaslighted into the 122 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:56,240 galleries so that working people were able to come and see and enjoy the museum after work. 123 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:04,040 So there had this democratic ideal connected to it, and the museum was amongst the first to introduce labels on the objects. 124 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:11,360 So you didn't need to buy a catalogue again that had this strongly democratic ethos at the heart of it. 125 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:22,250 From the beginning, Henry Cole said the whole museum should be like a book with its pages always open and never shut. 126 00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:33,440 Some 40 years after the museum had opened and it becomes in 1899, it moved from being the South Kensington Museum to the Victoria and Albert Museum. 127 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:42,080 Victoria herself wanted it. Could just the museum, but was a court is convinced it should be the Victoria and Albert Museum. 128 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:48,260 She lays the foundation stone, still dressed in black, still mourning Albert's death. 129 00:16:48,260 --> 00:17:01,760 And as she does, she says, I trust it. The museum will remain for ages a monument of discerning liberty and a source of refinement and progress. 130 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:11,570 Over the centuries, we have striven to remain true to this democratic vision to make our collections more available to more people, 131 00:17:11,570 --> 00:17:18,140 to increase the number diversity of our audiences, to widen public access and social inclusion, 132 00:17:18,140 --> 00:17:22,430 to engage more fully with neighbouring communities and to improve well-being. 133 00:17:22,430 --> 00:17:30,950 What is more, what I hope to show this evening is that the Vienna's collections reveal ceaseless narratives, 134 00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:39,120 championing this almost Newtonian course of discerning liberty. 135 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:49,020 But as a museum board of the imperial moment in the mid 19th centuries, with collections amassed from across the British Empire and beyond, 136 00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:58,740 we should be clear from the start that the Vienna is a repository for countless artefacts of bondage and servitude, 137 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:05,910 dispersed throughout the collections of objects that systematically represent the absence of liberty. 138 00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:12,600 The significant cultural riches extracted by the East India Company from South Asia objects 139 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:18,360 seised during British military campaigns in Africa and Asia during the 19th century, 140 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:23,940 and the vestiges of vast collections once owned by absentee slave owners whose wealth 141 00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:30,960 was rooted in the exploitation of enslaved people from a 19th century mindset, 142 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:40,680 the civilising agendas of colonial authorities often justified the burgeoning and violent expansion of European interests across Africa, 143 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:52,260 Asia and the Caribbean. Behind this mask of moral necessity, the imperial administration sought to advance economic interests across the colonies, 144 00:18:52,260 --> 00:19:01,980 as my colleague Gus Casely Hayford eloquently explains in a very different perspective to the humble in Enlightenment legacy quotes. 145 00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:08,040 These men who defined the Enlightenment, constructed its hierarchies and categories. 146 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:18,150 These intellectuals who laid out the framework of modern law, morality and its identified metaphysics looked upon Africa, 147 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:24,210 a well populated and varied cultured continent and saw in its peoples nothing. 148 00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:36,230 Avoid a cultural tabula rasa, silence. It made colonialism and the imposition of Western cultural norms seem like a kindness. 149 00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:46,820 And as we wrestle today with thinking about the role of museums in the creation of the architecture of the intellectual architecture of enlightenment, 150 00:19:46,820 --> 00:19:53,220 we know that part of the practise of colonialism was also the act of collecting. 151 00:19:53,220 --> 00:20:04,590 So here we see some beautiful wonders from Ethiopia, which entered the collection in 1872. 152 00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:12,560 These are the Magdala treasures which came to South Kensington following the so-called Aposhian campaign. 153 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:20,550 Have-not have remained in the collection since to secure the release of British hostages imprisoned by the Ethiopian temperature drops. 154 00:20:20,550 --> 00:20:31,560 Second Lieutenant General Robert Napier gathered together Expeditionary Force of 13000 British and Indian troops in April 1868. 155 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:40,440 The forces reached Magdala, storming the fortress and securing the release of the hostages, but then culminating in the emperor's suicide. 156 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:50,730 The British then took with them hundreds of artefacts looted from the fortress, which could be auctioned off to raise money for the military. 157 00:20:50,730 --> 00:21:00,630 Part of the usual process. And so many of these campaigns under the stewardship of Richard Holmes, a manuscript curator at the British Museum, 158 00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:10,980 many objects made their way back to England, where they were initially purchased by the Treasury and then distributed across different collections. 159 00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:15,810 Until recently, these violent histories were rarely acknowledged. 160 00:21:15,810 --> 00:21:22,840 Museum labelling traditionally foregrounded the filigreed, the material history, the design history, the craftsmanship. 161 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:33,360 But today, the public is justly curious about how objects were quiet and who they belonged to and where they came from. 162 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:37,530 So to mark the fifth anniversary of the siege, a battle of Magdala. 163 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:42,930 In twenty eighteen, we opened our Magdala 1868 display spanning textiles, 164 00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:48,930 photography and metalwork, developed in conjunction with Diaspora communities in the UK, 165 00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:56,340 as well as a result in deep conversations with the Ethiopian embassy about how these objects should be shared in the future. 166 00:21:56,340 --> 00:22:04,290 The display a more successfully to place these objects in context by focussing on the run up to the battle and its controversial aftermath. 167 00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:09,000 And we included Gladstone has already been mentioned this phenomenal quotation from 168 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,980 Gladstone from the eighteen seventies saying these items should be returned to Ethiopia. 169 00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:20,340 And that was the debate already in the late 19th century before covid. 170 00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:30,510 We also opened a new display of Ashanti gold weights from modern day Ghana objects seised during the third Anglo Ashanti war of 1874. 171 00:22:30,510 --> 00:22:40,620 As being a curator, Angus Patterson explains the gold was not taken simply for its financial value by removing the regalia from the Ashanti court. 172 00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:48,780 Britain had stripped the Asante rulers of their symbols of government and denied them their authority to govern. 173 00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:57,420 And again, whilst historically these items might have been presented primarily as a source of inspiration for design students and Goldsmith's, 174 00:22:57,420 --> 00:23:03,720 we now explain that place within a different history of imperial trophy hunting and inevitably 175 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:13,270 how the South Kensington Museum was enveloped in some of these exercises of colonial violence. 176 00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:19,840 Another such untold legacy relates to the vast object collections amassed by absentee 177 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:25,540 slave owners who use their wealth rooted in the exploitation of enslaved people to help 178 00:23:25,540 --> 00:23:30,460 reshape so much of 19th century Britain found across the length and breadth of the 179 00:23:30,460 --> 00:23:36,190 country and the incredible work of the use of UCL on all this has been transformational. 180 00:23:36,190 --> 00:23:43,630 The aristocrats, the members of Parliament, the clergymen, the colleges, the collectors, the connoisseurs enriched through West India trade. 181 00:23:43,630 --> 00:23:54,400 One such figure was rough, but now the loyal member of Parliament and owner inheritor of three plantations in Jamaica and almost 600 enslaved people, 182 00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:01,630 he had opposed the prohibition of the slave trade. But by the time of abolition 1834, many estates had already been sold. 183 00:24:01,630 --> 00:24:07,840 However, Bernell still possessed his plantations and was eventually awarded almost 12000 pounds 184 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:14,320 in compensation upon his death in 1850 for his enormous collection of metalwork, 185 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,310 cloth, ceramics and miniatures became available for sale. 186 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:29,920 Some 730 items, a few are pictured here, were purchased from the Bernell collection by the curators of the South Kensington Museum. 187 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:35,740 And again, whilst traditionally we would look simply to the design history of these objects. 188 00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:48,330 Now we explore also the nature of the wealth behind them and reflect upon that accordingly. 189 00:24:48,330 --> 00:25:00,480 But the VLA is also a landscape of liberty and an almost millstone in ideal can be traced through its collections. 190 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:12,860 And let us begin then. With Renaissance Florence associated in European tradition so closely with ideals of common good and liberty, 191 00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:21,200 this was quite the city where the love of liberty was the most general and the most constant in every class or the cultivation 192 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:29,540 of the understanding was carried the furthest and where enlightenment of mind soonest appeared in the improvement of the laws. 193 00:25:29,540 --> 00:25:38,210 According to the 18th century lawyer, politician and collector Great Liverpudlian William Rostker, Renaissance Florence is flourishing. 194 00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:42,470 Cultural life, humanist tradition, scholarship and artistic production was, 195 00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:47,990 of course, intimately connected to the patronage, to the patronage of the cheese, 196 00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:58,570 the great mercantile bankers and pioneers of modern finance, Michelangelo being amongst the many beneficiaries of Medici finance. 197 00:25:58,570 --> 00:26:09,910 Instances of Mortdecai wealth and the dynasties politically adept preparation of the Folland Florentin ideal of liberty are found across the VLA, 198 00:26:09,910 --> 00:26:20,800 sadly, all in plaster casts rather than the originals, but nonetheless are found right through the museum, not just in our cost courts. 199 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,110 A plaster copy of Donatello's Bronze of the young David with the head of Goliath at his feet, 200 00:26:26,110 --> 00:26:32,470 commissioned by Cosimo WDC in the early 15th century, as the leading citizen of Florence, 201 00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:41,350 the banker again commissioned Donatello to create the bronze sculpture of Judith with the severed head of Holofernes in around fourteen sixty, 202 00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:51,190 a centrepiece for the Garden of the Palace. Its 1893 cost now stands with the Venice mediaeval Renaissance Gallery. 203 00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:57,700 David with the head of Goliath by virtue from about fourteen seventy five, was another documented. 204 00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:05,920 Medici commissioned a cast after the Bronze Original is found inside the Viennese plaster cast Quartz Judith, 205 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:18,770 symbolically recognised across the Renaissance City the virtue of liberty overcoming a tyranny. 206 00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:28,390 This cycle of sculptures successfully incinerated the cheese as defenders of Florentine liberty, consciously diffusing the accused. 207 00:27:28,390 --> 00:27:36,470 The accusations of autocracy that always surrounded the fairly autocratic Mateschitz. 208 00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:45,560 But the Vienna Galleries show how Florentine Liberty Libertas was an incredibly fluid notion able to be appropriated by 209 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:54,170 multiple factions following a French invasion in the late 15th century and botched negotiations with the invading monarch. 210 00:27:54,170 --> 00:27:58,220 The Medici were expelled from Florence in fourteen ninety four. 211 00:27:58,220 --> 00:28:03,080 Soon after, the republic would reclaim the civic expression of liberty, 212 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:10,640 refashioning the newly found freedom in contrast to what was regarded as the tyrannical Medici rule, 213 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:20,570 this marble cantorial singing gallery housed inside the Vienna's Rafaelle court or sculpture by Daniel in around fourteen ninety five, 214 00:28:20,570 --> 00:28:26,810 the coat of arms with the Florentine Lily and the word Libertas makes it certain that 215 00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:32,960 it was commissioned by the Republic of Florence after the expulsion of the Louvre. 216 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:40,910 But of course it is the plaster cast copy of Michelangelo's David produced from one of the most famous objects in the history of art that 217 00:28:40,910 --> 00:28:49,160 has been a favourite with all visitors since its arrival as a gift from the Duke of Tuscany to Queen Victoria in the mid 19th century, 218 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:56,000 taking pride of place in the cars courts, the figure of David is a symbol of towering strength, 219 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,960 depicting the biblical hero before he was to slay Goliath and of course, at the Vienna. 220 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:09,650 We then had to create the fig leaf in front of the delicate parts, as the Victorians would expect. 221 00:29:09,650 --> 00:29:18,170 Michelangelo's original was first installed in the Piazza Della Senora in 15 004 outside the seat of government in Florence. 222 00:29:18,170 --> 00:29:21,650 This was a potent location for Renaissance Florence, 223 00:29:21,650 --> 00:29:33,200 replacing the Medici commissioned Judith that stood there before Michelangelo's art was an integral part of the city's social and political fabric, 224 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:40,610 and his David stood as an allegory of Florentine civic virtues triumphing over tyranny. 225 00:29:40,610 --> 00:29:50,570 It quickly became the municipal symbol of liberty, the republic's ethos of self-government, winning out the hegemony of the Medici. 226 00:29:50,570 --> 00:30:02,140 Florence had reappropriated its history of liberty through Dovid, the Renaissance republics of the 15th century. 227 00:30:02,140 --> 00:30:13,540 Well, reimagined and recast and re embraced during the long 18th century here in Britain as the grand tour took off in the 228 00:30:13,540 --> 00:30:23,230 latter half of the 18th century and the great civilisations of Greece and Rome opened up this history of liberty. 229 00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:29,200 This history of struggle for freedom became more and more influential, 230 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:38,020 particularly in Great Britain, in an eloquent demonstration of how these neoclassical ideals, 231 00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:46,450 how these civic Republican ideals of freedom become, were transferred to Britain in the seventeen hundreds. 232 00:30:46,450 --> 00:30:51,190 We can, of course, look to Stonehouse and it's remarkable. 233 00:30:51,190 --> 00:31:05,350 Landscaped gardens, 400 acres of 18th century civic Republican fantasy over the course of 30 years from around 1720 Lord Cobblestoned fifth set about 234 00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:15,100 remaking his gardens as a landscape monument to civic Republicanism is one of the earliest additions was the so-called Rotunda, 235 00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:28,390 an open brown pavilion, the ballbuster supported on ionic columns and under the domes to the gilded copy of the Venus de Medici on around Roman altar. 236 00:31:28,390 --> 00:31:35,620 Stow's emblematic landscape was meant to be deducted as well as aesthetic. 237 00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:44,510 The gardens were an exercise in political thought and an exercise in the celebration and exploration of liberty. 238 00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:53,270 The gardens were celebration of those liberties orientated around a political philosophy of patriotism, 239 00:31:53,270 --> 00:31:58,130 which Cobham saw at risk from those connected to Robert Walpole. 240 00:31:58,130 --> 00:32:04,760 This was politics writ large, and so became this great symbol of liberty for big thinkers. 241 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:13,280 The Elysian Fields, as the as the stone landscape was known, was an area incredibly rich, 242 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:20,540 that in classical and mythological symbolism pathways they metaphorically of the vice virtue and liberty, 243 00:32:20,540 --> 00:32:26,300 alluded to both the ancient gods and old political aspirations. 244 00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:36,670 But at the heart of it was the temple of British worthies and this account of. 245 00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:53,860 English liberty in an era of growing British identity explored through bust, some of which we have some of the originals celebrating Shakespeare Drak, 246 00:32:53,860 --> 00:33:02,900 Queen Elizabeth, the first Thomas Gresham, an account of liberty made flesh through sculpture. 247 00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:09,940 And, of course, Milton Isdell. Milton sits at the heart of the civic Republican ideal of liberty. 248 00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:18,010 And it was a notion of liberty connected to this idea of patriotism, which was built around a love of country, 249 00:33:18,010 --> 00:33:23,920 but also this terrible fear that the country was always at risk of being undermined. 250 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:34,480 And at the heart of this notion of danger was a sense that the British idea, the English ideal of liberty, was at risk. 251 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,530 And what Cuba wanted to do at Stowe was to connect this idea of English liberty to this classical 252 00:33:40,530 --> 00:33:54,870 and civic Republican past and also point out how much it was to the land and culture of of Britain. 253 00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:59,160 In the 18th century and in the latter half of the 18th century, 254 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:12,240 this this idea of patriotism in this increasingly radical idea of patriotism began to grow in terms of political effectiveness, 255 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:22,590 the newspaper editor and politician John Wilkes proved amongst the most effective propagandist of Patriot politics and Milton defence of freedom. 256 00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:26,790 After criticising George Third in his newspaper, The North Britain, 257 00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:32,910 Wilkes was arrested in seventeen sixty three under a general warrant for seditious libel. 258 00:34:32,910 --> 00:34:38,880 You couldn't have a more kind of melatonin moment to escape prosecution and also some debt. 259 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:49,020 Wilkes fled to France. The British potter and entrepreneur Josiah Wedgwood, a strong supporter of Wilkes, wrote how his exile evoked, 260 00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:56,820 quote, universal disgust here in Staffordshire and is the general topic of every political club in town. 261 00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:05,220 On his return to England, Wilkes was imprisoned, but he continued to exploit, above all, the potent symbol of the Magna Carta, 262 00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:16,360 a great legal bulwark against arbitrary rule and the surety for freedom under the law to great effect by mobilising public support for his cause. 263 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,790 He was even subsequently elected to parliament for Middlesex. 264 00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:32,880 Under Wilkes, the Magna Carta had this new life, a powerful form of propaganda representing the ancient birthright of every subject. 265 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:44,820 And Hogarth becomes one of the great chroniclers not only of that idea of liberty, thinking of the roast beef of old England and the gates of Calais. 266 00:35:44,820 --> 00:36:01,560 But a strong supporter of Wilkes and the critique, of course, with it here we have a fantastic punchbowl with portraits of John Wilkes and a judge. 267 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:07,800 And then this work by Josiah Wedgwood. 268 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,660 Who do you see the quill in a very militating way. 269 00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:20,370 You see the quill in Wilkes's hand and a Magna Carta in the background. 270 00:36:20,370 --> 00:36:26,670 And he sends this up to be engraved in Liverpool. 271 00:36:26,670 --> 00:36:31,710 And it sells incredibly well for for for the Wedgwood. 272 00:36:31,710 --> 00:36:40,860 And that was this popular culture, this material culture of liberty, this material culture of patriotism expressed through dress, 273 00:36:40,860 --> 00:36:54,350 through ceramics, through glass, which Wedgwood was a very, very important part of Wedgwood himself. 274 00:36:54,350 --> 00:37:06,290 Mr. Slight, let me let me Wedgwood himself went further in his radical politics and became an ardent supporter of the colonists in America. 275 00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:11,090 And here was an interesting moment in the idea of patriotism, 276 00:37:11,090 --> 00:37:16,550 that you have so many patriots in Britain in the second half of the 18th century 277 00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:22,970 supporting an idea of liberty which involved resistance against the British, 278 00:37:22,970 --> 00:37:31,070 because this notion that the American colonists were fighting for true English liberty and true freedom against the 279 00:37:31,070 --> 00:37:41,900 corruption that was coming from the British government and Wedgwood himself creates this this rattlesnake symbol, 280 00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:50,760 which is then used in America with the phrase Don't tread on me supporting American liberty abroad. 281 00:37:50,760 --> 00:38:03,820 But the. But like the Florentin appropriation and reappropriation of David as a symbol of liberty, 282 00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:09,100 these notions of freedom explored through material culture were incredibly complex. 283 00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:14,650 Some 13 years of the United States of America had achieved independence. 284 00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:24,280 British sculptor John Deere was commissioned to produce a figurative marble relief depicting Julius Caesar invading Britain. 285 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:31,450 Now, in our sculpture galleries, the individual who commissioned this was John Penn, British member of parliament, 286 00:38:31,450 --> 00:38:39,730 Justice of the Peace and grandson of the eponymous founder of the American state of Pennsylvania, William Penn. 287 00:38:39,730 --> 00:38:42,850 The relief subject is almost unique in sculpture. 288 00:38:42,850 --> 00:38:53,920 The composition shows a vivid battle scene, the invading Romans being repelled by heroic British forces on the shore of the English Channel. 289 00:38:53,920 --> 00:39:02,350 In the centre, the helmeted figure of Julius Caesar stands commandingly, armed with a shield and spear. 290 00:39:02,350 --> 00:39:11,260 And what's remarkable about this is you have a British member of parliament commissioning a piece of work celebrating the patriotism 291 00:39:11,260 --> 00:39:22,690 of those resisting an invasion for which the American colonists resisting the British as reflected through the classical past. 292 00:39:22,690 --> 00:39:26,680 The bravery of the local populace, overcoming, if only temporarily, 293 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:35,230 an invading colonial force must have appealed deeply to Penn as Pennsylvania was lost to the Penn family after the revolution, 294 00:39:35,230 --> 00:39:45,550 the London bullpen was nonetheless familiar with the repercussions of a colonial force occupying and being expelled from foreign lands. 295 00:39:45,550 --> 00:39:55,880 But the criticism of America after the American Revolution was that for all of these great exclamations of freedom. 296 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:05,120 How come slavery stood at the heart of it and as the British built themselves up for this moral campaign against slave trade, 297 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:11,810 the criticism of America's dependence upon slavery became all the more stark. 298 00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:25,610 And Wedgwood was convinced of the abolitionist case during the 70s and 80s and becomes the one of the, I think, 299 00:40:25,610 --> 00:40:37,010 greatest figure in the material culture of freedom, not because of the production of this incredible medallion with the legend. 300 00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:45,890 Am I not a man and a brother? And this was the symbol of the abolitionist movement in the late 18th century. 301 00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:50,840 This was more like a CND Bad from Extinction Rebellion sticker. 302 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:58,670 This was the symbol of freedom that Wedgwood produced for free and circulated for free. 303 00:40:58,670 --> 00:41:08,330 And it was, in the best sense virtue, signalling that you signalled your virtue through this use of this material culture. 304 00:41:08,330 --> 00:41:15,950 And he was such an important part of that groundswell of demand for liberty. 305 00:41:15,950 --> 00:41:26,030 I think today you would criticise, understandably, the supplicant figure of the enslaved Africans, the lack of agency within the figure. 306 00:41:26,030 --> 00:41:33,800 But in terms of mobilising opinion in Britain in favour of abolition in the late 18th century, 307 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:43,200 it was one of the most significant components in that great campaign. 308 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:54,120 As I hope I've been able to suggest, it's probably no surprise that whether it's in 18th century Britain or 16th century Florence, 309 00:41:54,120 --> 00:42:00,030 Liberty has proved a multifarious concept for each individual as much as each generation, 310 00:42:00,030 --> 00:42:06,060 for each component of the DNA collection, for William Morris, the defining designer, 311 00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:10,770 activist and founding figure in the history of the Victorian Albert Museum. 312 00:42:10,770 --> 00:42:17,310 It was partly the freedom to live amongst beautiful surroundings that was one of life's most 313 00:42:17,310 --> 00:42:23,670 elemental necessities freedom for other than freedom from for the women's social and fiscal union. 314 00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:29,490 The Women's Suffrage Society, established in 1983 by Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughters, Christabel and Sylvia. 315 00:42:29,490 --> 00:42:34,890 True liberty meant votes for women, and they pursued this unreservedly through their deeds, 316 00:42:34,890 --> 00:42:39,300 not words much, perhaps, of a contemporary extinction rebellion. 317 00:42:39,300 --> 00:42:46,710 Activist groups Liberty refers to urgent international action to combat climate change 318 00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:53,310 without addressing that of freedoms of the future will be will be heavily constrained. 319 00:42:53,310 --> 00:43:02,820 In every instance, creative approaches have been habitually employed to communicate unique political standpoints throughout history. 320 00:43:02,820 --> 00:43:04,980 Those should strive towards greater, more. 321 00:43:04,980 --> 00:43:13,530 Just civil freedoms have so often turned to acts of creativity to help elicit powerful political social change, 322 00:43:13,530 --> 00:43:17,310 though these acts have been defined and redefined for each generation. 323 00:43:17,310 --> 00:43:26,130 The resulting artefacts, images and material culture now stand together as collective evidence of each progressive step. 324 00:43:26,130 --> 00:43:33,510 They speak of the powerful international interrelationship between creativity and liberty. 325 00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:40,740 Those seeking out greater freedoms today continue to enlist art and design in the services of rebellion and resistance. 326 00:43:40,740 --> 00:43:49,320 And we were delighted at the V.A. to take into our collections parts of the extinction rebellion print material. 327 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:55,590 These antiapartheid posters, designed by David King of the late 70s and mid 80s are a case in point. 328 00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:59,220 The series called for the release of all South African prisoners after reports 329 00:43:59,220 --> 00:44:03,780 of an increase in the number of detainees tortured to death by the police. 330 00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:09,030 As Professor Rick Poynter explains, the posters have an intense visual conviction, 331 00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:17,550 distilling shocking evidence of systemic racism and profound social injustice into graphic memories of great moral urgency. 332 00:44:17,550 --> 00:44:20,640 King's visual activism was remarkable for its cogency, 333 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:31,020 an impact no other body of work from the time comes close to equalling that feeling of controlled anger and their immense rhetorical punch. 334 00:44:31,020 --> 00:44:39,580 And the Vienna is proud to hold some 30 of these political posters in its collections. 335 00:44:39,580 --> 00:44:48,340 So these are my hope this evening to be able to explore in an introductory manner how the collections of the Victorian Albert 336 00:44:48,340 --> 00:44:57,400 Museum speak to the founding mission of the institution whilst also telling a story both of oppression and of freedom. 337 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,470 Today that history is told, 338 00:44:59,470 --> 00:45:09,550 amid the frank transparency of the museum's sometimes complicit past its place with an enlightenment or colonial practises included with rigour, 339 00:45:09,550 --> 00:45:12,790 scholarship and a culture of transparency. 340 00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:22,540 Our ambition is to encourage a wide exploration of these public holdings and the relationships they embed with freedom. 341 00:45:22,540 --> 00:45:27,780 But let me finish, if I might, on a different point of liberty. 342 00:45:27,780 --> 00:45:40,590 Like universities, museums need to be places for free thought, and today a chauvinistic right seeks increasingly to defend our history, 343 00:45:40,590 --> 00:45:47,580 uniform and singular for what they call WOAK warriors intent on cancelling the past. 344 00:45:47,580 --> 00:45:53,970 And they've pressured culture ministers to connect public funding to what is described as correct thinking. 345 00:45:53,970 --> 00:46:03,090 Meanwhile, a populist left has sought to delegitimize much of the progressive fabric of civil society. 346 00:46:03,090 --> 00:46:13,320 Museums find themselves caught in the crossfire. We're being pressured to embrace our absence of neutrality and to pick a side. 347 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:23,430 Yet at the very same time, an Ipsos Mori poll as recently revealed that 82 percent of the British public polled express 348 00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:31,370 trust in museum curators up there with scientists and nurses a long way from politicians, 349 00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:37,740 as I used to be. It's an extraordinary statement of public confidence in our cultural institutions 350 00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:46,260 ability to navigate this terrain without museums as sites for civic exchanges. 351 00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:56,190 We see here in our Enlightenment gallery bringing cultures and communities together as a trusted and independent sites. 352 00:46:56,190 --> 00:47:01,740 We will fall victim as civil society to more fake news, 353 00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:11,310 echo chamber righteousness and self regarding identity politics, museums playing in their complicated, difficult role. 354 00:47:11,310 --> 00:47:20,580 An essential task in explaining the crooked timber of humanity through the wonder of material culture and in the process, 355 00:47:20,580 --> 00:47:27,660 I think playing an important role in supporting the cultural ecology of democracy. 356 00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:34,860 If we probably fall short of the Puritan rigour of Milton's civic Republicanism. 357 00:47:34,860 --> 00:47:46,170 I hope that at the BNA we still fulfil Gottfried Simper calling for us to assist in the true teaching of a free people. 358 00:47:46,170 --> 00:48:04,870 Thank you. Thank you, Tristram, for a fascinating and enlightening lecture, 359 00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:13,600 and I have some questions from our online audience and actually the first one kind of starts very conveniently where you left off, 360 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:19,270 because in a world of online echo chambers, offline echo chambers, 361 00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:27,130 sometimes universities and museums are both needed to provide a space for civic and civil debate. 362 00:48:27,130 --> 00:48:36,340 So the question is, how do you think museums can best do this without being drawn into confected culture wars? 363 00:48:36,340 --> 00:48:40,370 My view is through the kind of. 364 00:48:40,370 --> 00:48:47,070 The scholarship, the rigour, the the engagement with as many audiences as possible, we have a good example on at the moment. 365 00:48:47,070 --> 00:48:52,280 So we have an exhibition we just opened at the V.A. called EPICA Iran. 366 00:48:52,280 --> 00:49:03,530 This is not an easy exhibition to put on for a number of reasons. And there's there's tension within the exhibition about how we engage with the 367 00:49:03,530 --> 00:49:12,780 contemporary authorities in Iran and how we think about the pre 1979 regime in Iran. 368 00:49:12,780 --> 00:49:18,830 And we've had criticism from from both sides that were too lenient on on modern Iran. 369 00:49:18,830 --> 00:49:26,990 And we don't understand the importance of the Shah and the modernisation story of the 1960s and 70s enough. 370 00:49:26,990 --> 00:49:29,870 And yet what we're doing, I think, is doing what we should be, 371 00:49:29,870 --> 00:49:36,140 which is provoking a kind of considered and intelligent conversation around that history, 372 00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:45,020 exploring it in an interesting way through material culture, because tens of thousands of people will come through our doors to see this exhibition. 373 00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:52,790 And because it's taken years and because we work with serious scholars who have thought about this for a long time, 374 00:49:52,790 --> 00:50:00,840 we're really confident in the judgements of those involved in this, which isn't to say they're all totally neutral. 375 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:14,330 We understand that what brings the biases of preconceptions, but to suggest we can't do it because we necessarily lack all notions of neutrality is, 376 00:50:14,330 --> 00:50:20,190 I think, to undermine the role of museums or universities and the public in the public square. 377 00:50:20,190 --> 00:50:23,420 And I, I almost fear sometimes we're at that place. 378 00:50:23,420 --> 00:50:30,970 So I think I think we should be confident about critical, scholarly and a very public minded interventions. 379 00:50:30,970 --> 00:50:41,900 Yeah, I remember travelling in southern Africa in the late 1990s where there was an acute self-conscious consciousness in the way that museums 380 00:50:41,900 --> 00:50:50,360 of interim redecoration of the South African and South African past and those accused of consciousness in a way that things were curated. 381 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:56,090 But I wonder if there are any other moments in the earlier history of museums in this country where some of 382 00:50:56,090 --> 00:51:03,380 those debates about the political and cultural sensitivity of particular exhibits have been taken place, 383 00:51:03,380 --> 00:51:12,290 or is this quite a contemporary phenomenon in this country? I mean, I think, you know, there's that recent very brilliant book about thinking about, 384 00:51:12,290 --> 00:51:16,400 as it were, how post-war Germany dealt that dealt with its past, 385 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:23,000 didn't, and then came to think about it again and thinking about how contemporary America deals with with the Confederate past. 386 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,860 I think these these conversations around the around the past come with each generation. 387 00:51:27,860 --> 00:51:37,940 And and again, that's why this notion of holding history in aspic makes makes no sense to us in the museum world because we are continually putting 388 00:51:37,940 --> 00:51:49,340 things up and taking things down and interpreting and reinterpreting our challenge is always the resource and and time and you know, 389 00:51:49,340 --> 00:51:56,060 the parts of how we think about some of our collections, which we're also keen as a museum to to kind of take forward. 390 00:51:56,060 --> 00:52:02,180 But there's no doubt that now I think you're right that there is a moment around this. 391 00:52:02,180 --> 00:52:05,270 You know, in a sense, it's absolutely wonderful. 392 00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:16,610 People are queuing around the block to go and see a statue of Edward Couston taken down, dumped in a canal, brought back up, 393 00:52:16,610 --> 00:52:26,010 put in a museum to have a conversation around, you know, British history, economic history, Bristol slavery, race relations. 394 00:52:26,010 --> 00:52:32,900 That's what museums should be about. So I'm I think I mean, some of it can get very political and some of it can get quite aggressive. 395 00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:38,450 And I think some of the identity politics really kind of obscures the conversation. 396 00:52:38,450 --> 00:52:44,810 But to have more people engaged in thinking about legacies of the past, their meaning for today is only a good thing. 397 00:52:44,810 --> 00:52:55,520 Yeah. Do you think we're going to move beyond sort of the celebratory and memorialising to the more self consciously reflective images in the future? 398 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,390 Yes, and you see a lot of that in in museums. 399 00:52:59,390 --> 00:53:07,970 But I also stay very strongly true to the founding mission, which was to bring in as many people as possible to the museum. 400 00:53:07,970 --> 00:53:13,880 And so if you've only got, as it were, a kind of what you want to avoid, 401 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:25,850 I think is a kind of metropolitan culture of a certain strand of curators and a degree of groupthink who put on exhibitions 402 00:53:25,850 --> 00:53:33,380 which pleased themselves and endorsed their own views without either thinking about challenge to those views or thinking. 403 00:53:33,380 --> 00:53:39,990 No, our responsibility is to bring in as many people as possible to think about these issues because we could. 404 00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:48,660 And in a sense, it's easy to put on exhibitions that we agree with and will be lauded for its more challenging as with I think 405 00:53:48,660 --> 00:53:55,230 with Epicor on put on a big exhibition about a difficult subject which gets people to come in and think about it. 406 00:53:55,230 --> 00:54:04,860 Yeah. So you just talked about this responsibility and the kind of the founding ethos of the Varnay to bring in as many people as you can from, 407 00:54:04,860 --> 00:54:10,140 you know, that bringing culture to people, bringing people to culture, I suppose. 408 00:54:10,140 --> 00:54:15,150 And I remember the last time I went to the Vienna not long before the first lockdown, 409 00:54:15,150 --> 00:54:20,110 I walked back to the underground on these amazing Victorian tunnels are echoing with schoolchildren. 410 00:54:20,110 --> 00:54:26,190 I'd just come out of the courts and thinking, these kids going to see Trajan's column or the cast of Trajan's column. 411 00:54:26,190 --> 00:54:31,770 And they were all very excited and it did feel like the museum was doing what it was set up to do. 412 00:54:31,770 --> 00:54:38,130 And we also with a lot of our outreach work here at Mansfield, we take students, 413 00:54:38,130 --> 00:54:46,360 school students to the rivers and the and the university museums here and try to talk to them about how you think about things and culture. 414 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,980 And I just wonder, in your time at the Vienna if there are any or anywhere else, really, 415 00:54:49,980 --> 00:54:54,930 if you think there are any other exhibitions or initiatives for younger audiences that 416 00:54:54,930 --> 00:55:00,570 are particularly succeeded or a particular way of bringing young people to a museum. 417 00:55:00,570 --> 00:55:09,810 I mean, I think we have parodic with us here this evening and the work that Paul and colleagues at the British Museum have done, 418 00:55:09,810 --> 00:55:12,330 you know, utilising those, you know, 419 00:55:12,330 --> 00:55:21,960 whether it's Sutton who or whether it's the kind of there are there are elements in the child's mind and whether it's all of our friends at 420 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:30,900 the Natural History Museum over the road and the dinosaurs that are instinctively kind of engaging and wonderful and kind of trigger moments. 421 00:55:30,900 --> 00:55:37,080 And we have we have you know, we love nothing more than the kids running through the Vienna. 422 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,310 But actually we make a real difference in the teenage years, I think. 423 00:55:41,310 --> 00:55:45,030 So the children come to be awed by it. And we love the family groups. 424 00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:57,960 But as the teenage years and what we do particularly is try and support design and technology teachers in across English schools. 425 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,940 Part of the founding of the museum was the design school movement, the importance of teaching design. 426 00:56:02,940 --> 00:56:10,590 We've seen this terrifying collapse in creative subjects in state secondary school in the last 15 years, numbers just falling off a cliff. 427 00:56:10,590 --> 00:56:17,340 And so we do a great deal of work through lending objects to regional museums, partnering with local schools, 428 00:56:17,340 --> 00:56:21,420 supporting professional development, curriculum material, being kind of in there. 429 00:56:21,420 --> 00:56:26,400 And amongst that, and my view is always that we when it comes to education, 430 00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:33,150 we put too much pressure on the schools in that historically education was something that schools were apart, 431 00:56:33,150 --> 00:56:36,150 but parents were really important, 432 00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:44,580 church or chapel or trade union or schools or there was a civil society that that helped to support education in its broadest sense. 433 00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:46,940 I think museums are an important part of that. 434 00:56:46,940 --> 00:56:54,600 And I think we all we all understand that now in a way that wasn't necessarily the case 30 or 40 years ago. 435 00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:01,710 And the growth of education departments and David Anderson, who's at Welzel, was a big figure in all this, has been really, really significant. 436 00:57:01,710 --> 00:57:05,040 So I think we should we should be doing more of this and we will be doing more. 437 00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:10,500 One of the things we also have is this fantastic Museum of childhood in Bethnal Green in east London, 438 00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:14,380 which we're transforming at the moment to make it really sparkie for young people. 439 00:57:14,380 --> 00:57:18,840 Yeah, well, I still remember not quite understanding why I couldn't take one thing. 440 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,940 No, I know. It's like it's like a kind of object. Yeah. 441 00:57:23,940 --> 00:57:29,190 But I mean, you obviously the Vienna is our great museum of material culture. 442 00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:33,780 And this has been a time when we have been separated from one another and from things. 443 00:57:33,780 --> 00:57:37,860 And we've been very everything's been mediated through a screen in a way that and 444 00:57:37,860 --> 00:57:43,080 many of us have found quite distressing and I suppose a bit of a deprivation. 445 00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:48,090 But have there been any surprising or positive impact of moving museum audiences online? 446 00:57:48,090 --> 00:57:54,450 Joanna Pantani? I mean, yes, but they've all been outweighed by the negatives. 447 00:57:54,450 --> 00:57:59,320 It so we've done you know, we've transformed our explore the collections facility. 448 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,630 So your way to navigate the collections is really powerful. 449 00:58:01,630 --> 00:58:06,510 We've opened up our BNA Academy, which used to just be if you could get to South Kensington. 450 00:58:06,510 --> 00:58:12,870 Now we do an online course that's absolutely brilliant and we've done online tools of the exhibitions. 451 00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:21,390 We've absolutely pivoted. And I think in the future, museums will have these multiple spaces of the digital will be a really important part of that. 452 00:58:21,390 --> 00:58:23,790 And we've done so much more online. 453 00:58:23,790 --> 00:58:31,110 But I think I think the great wonder of just physically being in front of the objects, being in front of the objects with other people, 454 00:58:31,110 --> 00:58:37,740 and then not that kind of lingering sense, you always have a line that they've got my data and now they're going to tell me to do something else. 455 00:58:37,740 --> 00:58:44,420 And actually at the Vienna you go from. Cost courts to the Korean gallery, to the mediaeval renaissance, to you, 456 00:58:44,420 --> 00:58:49,460 you're not told if you like this, you'll like that there's no kind of algorithmic destiny to it. 457 00:58:49,460 --> 00:58:58,790 You could just enjoy it yourself. And I think that sense of freedom of of of intellectual freedom is really, really important. 458 00:58:58,790 --> 00:59:03,320 So we've we've invested in digital. It's a big part of what we do. 459 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:14,300 But I still feel the kind of you know, it in a sense is even more important when we see what digital does to everyone, 460 00:59:14,300 --> 00:59:18,470 reads their own news, follows their own people, as it were. 461 00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:22,070 Digital takes us down ever narrower avenues, weirdly. 462 00:59:22,070 --> 00:59:27,020 And museums are just one of those civic spaces where you have to interact with people you don't know, 463 00:59:27,020 --> 00:59:31,400 objects you haven't seen before, and that's healthy. Yeah. Well, Christine, 464 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:38,780 thank you very much for coming in real life and for sharing online with people who couldn't get here in real life with our current limited capacity. 465 00:59:38,780 --> 00:59:40,910 But it's been brilliant talk, 466 00:59:40,910 --> 00:59:50,300 and I really appreciate the reminder of how important museums are as civic spaces where people can meet and mediate difference. 467 00:59:50,300 --> 00:59:56,120 And I suppose, as John Milton said, love is an important part of the way people met one another. 468 00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,480 So museums are places where you can love your crooked neighbour with your crooked heart like. 469 01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:09,494 Thank you very much. Thank you.